The ethical implications of hard determinism

[Gamma Male]

I made this thread in my diary but it didn't really take off, so I'll try it here.

Assuming you subscribe to an incompatiblist deterministic view of the universe, how do you reconcile the lack of free will with morality?

Personally, I believe that inflicting suffering upon someone because of something they did in the past is only justified if it prevents a greater amount of suffering from occurring in the future. Punishing someone purely to get back at them for something they did, and not actually doing anything to prevent future harm from occuring, is unethical because it isn't their fault they did what they did. The justice system should serve to prevent future harm, not "correct" past wrongs by pointlessly inflicting suffering.

[Miserabilia]

The thing is we don't have to and shouldn't think about it;
if hard determinism is true, this has no effect on our world at all.
So there aren't really implications, only the ones people think up themselves.

As for those;
the question may be asked, why would we punish people for seomthing they were predetermined to do?
Well, there are several reasons. They need to be punished to prevent them or others from doing it again and sometimes locked away for their own safety of that of others;

but also, choices still exist, and like I said, I don't really think there are any implications.

R-Nj_rEqkyQ

[CosmicNoodle]

God damn it!

OK, I'm not typing it out again, look at the responses I gave in his other one.

[Gamma Male]

Why is nobody here interested in metaphysics? -_-

[Miserabilia]

Why is nobody here interested in metaphysics? -_-

I am !!!
I'll check out the thread in your diary too, I must have misesd it

[Camazotz]

Why is nobody here interested in metaphysics? -_-

I prefer learning about astrophysics (and straight-up physics for that matter) than metaphysics. I find that philosophical arguments are less interesting than discussing science. Sorry :(

[Vlerchan]

The justice system should serve to prevent future harm, not "correct" past wrongs by pointlessly inflicting suffering.
This, basically.

I find the idea of using the justice system as a tool for revenge morally-revolting regardless of whether we presume Free Will or not.

Why is nobody here interested in metaphysics? -_-
Lots of it is very heavy. Most of it's irrelevant to my political positions.

I personally wish we could all hold a greater interest in economics.

[sqishy]

Maybe it does not matter if there is hard determinism or not with regards to free will and all that, because it feels like we have free will anyways.
And I am interested in metaphysics :D

[Typhlosion]

So... we cannot punish people for it is out of their control on what they are going to do or not? NO!

I like to analyze society and human beings as a machine or as a system. A human is a machine whose input is processed by its life influences and personality and, as a machine, has then only one output. Some machines make some bad output. Society, as a system, must try to input some new influences so that the bad output does not happen again.

Plus, hard determinism does not hold a human back from thinking. A human can evaluate input (by its life influences and personality) and judge what output is most appropriate. Hard determinism just means that the behavior is predictable.

[Gamma Male]

So... we cannot punish people for it is out of their control on what they are going to do or not? NO!

I like to analyze society and human beings as a machine or as a system. A human is a machine whose input is processed by its life influences and personality and, as a machine, has then only one output. Some machines make some bad output. Society, as a system, must try to input some new influences so that the bad output does not happen again.

Plus, hard determinism does not hold a human back from thinking. A human can evaluate input (by its life influences and personality) and judge what output is most appropriate. Hard determinism just means that the behavior is predictable.

Thinking is behavior, and just as set as everything else. And I'm all for punishing people, but only if it prevents a greater amount of suffering from occurring in the future than is inflicted upon the wrongdoer.

[Typhlosion]

but only if it prevents a greater amount of suffering from occurring in the future than is inflicted upon the wrongdoer.Such as...?

I feel this might get out of topic. Is this evolving to a "what shouldn't be punishable" topic? Or is that what the thread was all about?

[Miserabilia]

So... we cannot punish people for it is out of their control on what they are going to do or not? NO!

I like to analyze society and human beings as a machine or as a system. A human is a machine whose input is processed by its life influences and personality and, as a machine, has then only one output. Some machines make some bad output. Society, as a system, must try to input some new influences so that the bad output does not happen again.

Plus, hard determinism does not hold a human back from thinking. A human can evaluate input (by its life influences and personality) and judge what output is most appropriate. Hard determinism just means that the behavior is predictable.

This is what I thought too.