Why are there no female priests in Catholicism but female pastors in Prostestantism?

[Lovelife090994]

Protestantism I know is very different from its root Catholicism but one thing I can't seem to get is why women are forbade from being priestesses. Last time I checked God uses men and women to preach the gospel and he never said that a woman cannot preach. Why is it in Catholicism a woman cannot be an ordained priest? Am I missing something here? In Protestantism depending on the doctrine or lack thereof i.e. myself a woman can be a bishop, a minister, a pastor, and an overseer, yet not in Catholicism or some doctrines. I never got this. Just because a person is a man that doesn't make them spiritually stronger.

Also, if God loves us all and wants his word spread, why do some deny women this divine right granted by God himself? I honestly do not get this at all and mainly because of my family I guess. The three main women in my family, my grandmother, mother, and great-grandmother were all great women of God and my mother is an ordained minister. Would this be allowed in Catholicism or written away because they are women? I have always been under female pastors growing up and so whenever I hear of people with a problem with that I get vexed and a little ticked since it seems like they are telling God he made a mistake; which is impossible.

Oh and no fights or else I will see you removed from the thread or have this thread closed altogether which I'd hate to see. Now, if you can be respectful and answer; then great! If not, please leave. Please. Last thing I need an argument over a simple question.

[Gamma Male]

Well, protestentism is just an offshoot of Catholicism, so they had to do something to distance themselves right?

"Hey, guys, we should be more progressive! That'll make people like us!"


There ya go.

[phuckphace]

Protestantism is a pretty broad label. there are actually only a couple of denominations within Protestantism that have allowed female pastors/deacons/whatever. most of them are still opposed to it AFAIK.

I remember my mom mentioning some shit that went down at her church a few years ago...some woman member thought since she had helped kids make Noah's Ark out of macaroni and glue during VBS meant she deserved a spot as an assistant pastor, and everyone jumped on her for even suggesting it (including the other women). she ended up leaving the church so butthurt that she never returned.

[Miserabilia]

Protestantism is a pretty broad label. there are actually only a couple of denominations within Protestantism that have allowed female pastors/deacons/whatever. most of them are still opposed to it AFAIK.

I remember my mom mentioning some shit that went down at her church a few years ago...some woman member thought since she had helped kids make Noah's Ark out of macaroni and glue during VBS meant she deserved a spot as an assistant pastor, and everyone jumped on her for even suggesting it (including the other women). she ended up leaving the church so butthurt that she never returned.

I love that story.

Anyway, I think the point of protestantsim was to be more of a progressive thing that anyone could follow, so i guess emancipation is a part of that.

[LouBerry]

I love that story.

Anyway, I think the point of protestantsim was to be more of a progressive thing that anyone could follow, so i guess emancipation is a part of that.

I think that's probably true. Plus, I know here in the South, a lot of those churches are all women, or at least were fifty years ago or so. Around here, everyone's grandparents are either that or Baptist. My grandma was, and her church was led by women ministers, women teachers, and a full woman congregation because so many men were gone to war and the men left behind felt to alienated to go with all the ladies.

Plus, comparing it to the most strict Christian faith isn't really fair. Some other denominations have made allowances, maybe someday the Catholic church will too. It is unlikely though, because it is actually talked about in the Bible how women were not to lead a church, not in the was a priest or pastor is supposed to.

[Lovelife090994]

I think that's probably true. Plus, I know here in the South, a lot of those churches are all women, or at least were fifty years ago or so. Around here, everyone's grandparents are either that or Baptist. My grandma was, and her church was led by women ministers, women teachers, and a full woman congregation because so many men were gone to war and the men left behind felt to alienated to go with all the ladies.

Plus, comparing it to the most strict Christian faith isn't really fair. Some other denominations have made allowances, maybe someday the Catholic church will too. It is unlikely though, because it is actually talked about in the Bible how women were not to lead a church, not in the was a priest or pastor is supposed to.

And to think I'm leaning Catholic. I fail to see where God said a woman can't preach. I mean come on, God has led many men and women to spread his word. Plus I'd hate to say it, but the Bible has been so changed over time; especially by the Catholic Church.

[CcRoder]

I asked my uncle the same question and this is what he told me.

The reason the Catholics don't ordain women can be explained something along these lines: Jesus, when on earth, did not ordain women in his lifetime. Nor afterwards were any women ordained, though there were deaconess's who were the wives of priests or Nuns who had some authority.

The Church, believing that Jesus is God, recognises that Jesus only ordained men on earth. So, the Church believes that it has no right whatsoever to do something that Christ himself didn't do. It's not discriminatory, but rather faithfulness to tradition. The Church believes also that any ordination upon a woman is invalid, since Jesus only ordained men.

Then, look at the number of nuns and religious sisters who spread the gospel, so to say. These are women. They teach in schools, they mission in the poorest parts of the world. And look at the Virgin Mary. Noone is held in such high regard as the Virgin Mary is.

I could ask my uncle for a better explanation though, because I'm basing this purely off what he told me.

[Lovelife090994]

I asked my uncle the same question and this is what he told me.

The reason the Catholics don't ordain women can be explained something along these lines: Jesus, when on earth, did not ordain women in his lifetime. Nor afterwards were any women ordained, though there were deaconess's who were the wives of priests or Nuns who had some authority.

The Church, believing that Jesus is God, recognises that Jesus only ordained men on earth. So, the Church believes that it has no right whatsoever to do something that Christ himself didn't do. It's not discriminatory, but rather faithfulness to tradition. The Church believes also that any ordination upon a woman is invalid, since Jesus only ordained men.

Then, look at the number of nuns and religious sisters who spread the gospel, so to say. These are women. They teach in schools, they mission in the poorest parts of the world. And look at the Virgin Mary. Noone is held in such high regard as the Virgin Mary is.

I could ask my uncle for a better explanation though, because I'm basing this purely off what he told me.

This goes back to how the Catholics ignored many important women and skewed their image. Mary Magdalene is the mother of Christianity for telling us Jesus rose, and she was a key figure to Jesus. Also, Christianity drew women in because it preached how we were free. Catholics, miss this point. I want female everything in churches. What's the harm? Not every woman is Eve, they just have a vagina.

[CcRoder]

This goes back to how the Catholics ignored many important women and skewed their image. Mary Magdalene is the mother of Christianity for telling us Jesus rose, and she was a key figure to Jesus. Also, Christianity drew women in because it preached how we were free. Catholics, miss this point. I want female everything in churches. What's the harm? Not every woman is Eve, they just have a vagina.

I understand your point, but I'm hardly the one to talk to about this. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable comes on :P

[Lovelife090994]

I understand your point, but I'm hardly the one to talk to about this. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable comes on :P

Your comment helps enough. Thanks. Hmm, this topic is both controversal and a bit of a head scratcher.

[gothy]

Catholic church is sexist and corrupt in my opinion. and very old fashioned. protestant isnt.

bias but my opinion. :)

[Lovelife090994]

Catholic church is sexist and corrupt in my opinion. and very old fashioned. protestant isnt.

bias but my opinion. :)

I think both can have their issues. Even though no Catholic or Protestant are the same, usually those who think different are not the representative.

[Korashk]

I fail to see where God said a woman can't preach.
It's in the Bible that you love so much.

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Here's some more:

I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
And some more:

This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
That should be all you need to accept the fact that when interpreted as the word of god your religion doesn't take kindly to women preachers.

[Lovelife090994]

It's in the Bible that you love so much.


Here's some more:


And some more:


That should be all you need to accept the fact that when interpreted as the word of god your religion doesn't take kindly to women preachers.

I won't deny that, that is in the Bible but that doesn't make it right. The Bible used to command stoning and we don't do that. If this is the case then this is Catholic doctrine. Also, I still think they edited the Bible. God himself was open to all and had many women preach his word. History tries to erase that to keep the power to men which seems to be societal.

[Korashk]

I won't deny that, that is in the Bible but that doesn't make it right.
That's not what you said to me yesterday.

[Lovelife090994]

That's not what you said to me yesterday.

Did you read the other sentences? And what does that "yesterday" have to do with "now" when I am not backflipping?

[Korashk]

Did you read the other sentences?
Yes, they also contradict what you said to me yesterday.

And what does that "yesterday" have to do with "now" when I am not backflipping?
I don't know what backflipping means in this context but in the Earth and Creationism survey thread you claimed that the Bible was the word of god and that you take it literally. Here you're claiming that the Catholics edited the Bible as they saw fit. I'm no theologian but it seems to me that you can't hold both of those positions.

[Music Lover]

Also, if God loves us all and wants his word spread, why do some deny women this divine right granted by God himself?

Well if you take the Bible literally on this issue, as the whole of catholicism and some protestant groups also, it is because God has granted this divine right to only men. But not even all men. The passage 1. Timothy 3 that Korashk stated gives quite a lot of strict rules:
Drink a lot -- Disqualified
Have rebellious children even if you're doing your best to be a good father -- Disqualified
Having been a Christian for only a short time -- Disqualified
Be in bad standing with non-Christians -- Disqualified
Have more than one wife (officially or sleeping with many) -- Disqualified
Have a bad wife -- Disqualified
Want money too much -- Disqualified
Not having enough courage to talk truth even when people may not like it -- Disqualified

So yeah, according to that passage, women are disqualified but so are many, many men also. And I'm pretty sure God has good reasons for having such strict criteria.
Contrary to what feminists believe, I believe there are some undeniable differences between men and women, which means that even though they are as equal in worth as human beings, are not as suited to the position of church leadership. And God being the head of the Church can make the rules for who is allowed to serve and in what positions.
Don't shoot the messenger. If you're gonna be angry, be angry to God and genuinely ask him why he did or said so. You may learn something?

[Lovelife090994]

Well if you take the Bible literally on this issue, as the whole of catholicism and some protestant groups also, it is because God has granted this divine right to only men. But not even all men. The passage 1. Timothy 3 that Korashk stated gives quite a lot of strict rules:
Drink a lot -- Disqualified
Have rebellious children even if you're doing your best to be a good father -- Disqualified
Having been a Christian for only a short time -- Disqualified
Be in bad standing with non-Christians -- Disqualified
Have more than one wife (officially or sleeping with many) -- Disqualified
Have a bad wife -- Disqualified
Want money too much -- Disqualified
Not having enough courage to talk truth even when people may not like it -- Disqualified

So yeah, according to that passage, women are disqualified but so are many, many men also. And I'm pretty sure God has good reasons for having such strict criteria.
Contrary to what feminists believe, I believe there are some undeniable differences between men and women, which means that even though they are as equal in worth as human beings, are not as suited to the position of church leadership. And God being the head of the Church can make the rules for who is allowed to serve and in what positions.
Don't shoot the messenger. If you're gonna be angry, be angry to God and genuinely ask him why he did or said so. You may learn something?

I'm not angry. I just think it doesn't fit God's word. Because God find all equal and forgives all, you would think that he could call on anyone to preach.

Yes, they also contradict what you said to me yesterday.


I don't know what backflipping means in this context but in the Earth and Creationism survey thread you claimed that the Bible was the word of god and that you take it literally. Here you're claiming that the Catholics edited the Bible as they saw fit. I'm no theologian but it seems to me that you can't hold both of those positions.

Well, if you're me then you bridge many, many subjects more out of fear than anything else. For me I take the story of Creation but I am getting at how some things in the Bible are not to be relevant and Jesus says why. We don't stone people, we don't sell our daughters, we don't live like our ancient's. We are to be close to God, no more, no less.

[Harry Smith]

I


Well, if you're me then you bridge many, many subjects more out of fear than anything else. For me I take the story of Creation but I am getting at how some things in the Bible are not to be relevant and Jesus says why. We don't stone people, we don't sell our daughters, we don't live like our ancient's. We are to be close to God, no more, no less.

So you pick the parts of the bible you want and the parts you don't

[Lovelife090994]

So you pick the parts of the bible you want and the parts you don't

It's about living Christ-like. We look to the whole Bible but we don't follow any violence or things that are strictly Jewish. There is a difference. If Christians lived by violence then we'd be no better tthan Muslim terrorists. It isn't about picking. You simply look to better yourself. With your logic a person can't ever read a Bible.

[Harry Smith]

It's about living Christ-like. We look to the whole Bible but we don't follow any violence or things that are strictly Jewish. There is a difference. If Christians lived by violence then we'd be no better tthan Muslim terrorists. It isn't about picking. You simply look to better yourself. With your logic a person can't ever read a Bible.

Not really-it just there seems to be a trend between social views and that which the Bible view? I reckon that in 50-60 years the Catholic church will probably have much more liberal views but even the current pope knows that it's impossible to hold such out of date views

[Lovelife090994]

Not really-it just there seems to be a trend between social views and that which the Bible view? I reckon that in 50-60 years the Catholic church will probably have much more liberal views but even the current pope knows that it's impossible to hold such out of date views

You know I am not Catholic right? I have no clue where the Catholic Church will be in 50 to 60 years. But I do know they will still hold to tradition. Like it or not, it isn't about picking. One thing about the Bible is how much of it speaks against violence written in it. However the most violent parts of the Bible are really the Torah. The Torah is actually a part of the Bible. The New Testament speaks out against the violence. For Jews, somewhere in one of the Old Texts is many excerpts that Christians live by as well but were rewritten in the New Testament.

[Harry Smith]

You know I am not Catholic right? I have no clue where the Catholic Church will be in 50 to 60 years. But I do know they will still hold to tradition. Like it or not, it isn't about picking. One thing about the Bible is how much of it speaks against violence written in it. However the most violent parts of the Bible are really the Torah. The Torah is actually a part of the Bible. The New Testament speaks out against the violence. For Jews, somewhere in one of the Old Texts is many excerpts that Christians live by as well but were rewritten in the New Testament.

I though you said earlier that you were leaning towards Catholicism?

[Lovelife090994]

I though you said earlier that you were leaning towards Catholicism?

That doesn't mean I'm Catholic. I'm nondenominational.

[AbigailBM98]

The Church correctly teaches that priests have to be men because Christ and his apostles were all men so priests, taking on their roles, have to be men.
The protestants have strayed from this because they want to be popular and are willing to contradict their own faith in order to become so.

[sqishy]

Good question. As far as I'm concerned there's not reason to not have piestesses/ female priests.

[tovaris]

because of cnurce ruls....
Ever heard of the reformation?

[Lovelife090994]

The Church correctly teaches that priests have to be men because Christ and his apostles were all men so priests, taking on their roles, have to be men.
The protestants have strayed from this because they want to be popular and are willing to contradict their own faith in order to become so.

This sounds a bit biased and completely ignores all the women of the Bible.

[Music Lover]

I'm not angry. I just think it doesn't fit God's word. Because God find all equal and forgives all, you would think that he could call on anyone to preach.

Well even if you don't think it fits, it still is there. How well do you know God? And does God forgive all or offer forgiveness to all? Is there a sin that will not be forgiven?

And as for anger, that's why I used the word 'if' :)

A final question: If you would want to get to know God better, how would you do that?

[Lovelife090994]

Well even if you don't think it fits, it still is there. How well do you know God? And does God forgive all or offer forgiveness to all? Is there a sin that will not be forgiven?

And as for anger, that's why I used the word 'if' :)

A final question: If you would want to get to know God better, how would you do that?

You realize I am Christian right?

[IAMWILL]

Not really-it just there seems to be a trend between social views and that which the Bible view? I reckon that in 50-60 years the Catholic church will probably have much more liberal views but even the current pope knows that it's impossible to hold such out of date views

I hate coming into the section on VT but I just wanted to let you know that barring some radical new scientific discoveries (life actually beginning at 2 years old, etc) the Catholic Church will not be changing its views on any major issues in the next 50-60 years, nor will it as long as it exists really It hasn't for the last 2000 years, and it almost certainly won't. Simply put, the Vatican tends to not give a fuck about what a majority of people believe (take abortion or gay marriage as an example). Very few Catholic teachings are routed in interpretation of the Bible, nearly all are rooted in the interpretation of so called "natural law," what the Church uses to say "all things that can de deduced from reason and logic alone." This is something the Pope cannot alone change, unlike with the interpretation of scripture. The Catholic Church is one of the least Bible-centered Christian religions really.

I will edit later with my understanding of the no-women priests thing.

EDIT: A quick Google search turned up this (http://catholicism.about.com/od/beliefsteachings/f/Women_Priests.htm) explanation as to why the Catholic Church believes women cannot be ordained, written by someone who has recieved years of education on Catholic teachings. I encourage all in the thread to read through it.

Personally, I understand why the Church won't allow women to become priests, but I wish it wasn't so.

[phuckphace]

The Catholic Church is the bro-est of all Christianity. might make it our official religion when I become dictator (okay not really). but yeah. they've figured out how to adapt to modernism and science without watering down their religion's fundamentals. you have to admire that.

[Music Lover]

You realize I am Christian right?

Yes I did even before I made my first comment :)

EDIT: And by the way, preaching the gospel and leading the church are two different things. All are called to the first while not many are called to the latter. Same can be said for spreading the gospel and teaching in main church meetings.

[Lovelife090994]

Yes I did even before I made my first comment :)

EDIT: And by the way, preaching the gospel and leading the church are two different things. All are called to the first while not many are called to the latter. Same can be said for spreading the gospel and teaching in main church meetings.

That is true. Anyone can tell a person about Jesus, but not everyone can preach his word. My point is that God has a way of calling whoever he pleases. Some women are amazingly spirit-filled preachers and teachers. Who are we to deny them that gift of ministry?

[Music Lover]

That is true. Anyone can tell a person about Jesus, but not everyone can preach his word. My point is that God has a way of calling whoever he pleases. Some women are amazingly spirit-filled preachers and teachers.

Well as i see it there is more to leading a church than being spirit-filled. And the gift of preaching/teaching is not exclusive to the church leader. If it was, then why would God give it to more people than can lead the church?
That gift can be used in many other situations than preaching a sermon.

Who are we to deny them that gift of ministry?

Well it's not us that are denying them. Don't shoot the messenger.

[Horatio Nelson]

Because God Ordained men to be leaders of the church.

But that doesn't mean women can't be advisors and mentors.

It just means they aren't supposed to be sole leaders of a church.

Does that make sense?

[Lovelife090994]

Because God Ordained men to be leaders of the church.

But that doesn't mean women can't be advisors and mentors.

It just means they aren't supposed to be sole leaders of a church.

Does that make sense?

Can you give me where the Bible says so? I have been under churches led by women and they all live long lives and are blessed. God doesn't seem to have a problem with them. Why should we? Especially in the Apostolic faith which can be very Biblically specific they usually have female pastors. Baptists tend to flat out deny women preaching, teaching, and mentoring.

[Horatio Nelson]

Can you give me where the Bible says so? I have been under churches led by women and they all live long lives and are blessed. God doesn't seem to have a problem with them. Why should we? Especially in the Apostolic faith which can be very Biblically specific they usually have female pastors. Baptists tend to flat out deny women preaching, teaching, and mentoring.

This should help you out.

http://www.gotquestions.org/women-pastors.html

[Lovelife090994]

This should help you out.

http://www.gotquestions.org/women-pastors.html

Of course, I hate the answer... Sigh, I love God but honestly I think women can preach given how I've been under many women preachers.