More Than 3 Gender Options

[BornActor]

Currently, we have three gender options: male, female, and undisclosed. Facebook now has 50, including cisgender (which can be a sign of solidarity for members of the trans community, as it denormalizes that cisgender is the standard), and I was wondering if we could add more. Again, Facebook has a great list developed by a trans person if you're not sure what gender identities to include. Being trans is not the same as undisclosed, and there are many people who don't identify under the gender binary or might want to come out as trans through their gender identity on VT if we provide a safe enough space.

[Gamma Male]

I would support this.

[ImCoolBeans]

VT HQ :arrow: Suggestions

I totally agree and support this.

Doing this will involve making/finding icons for the postbit for each gender option. It won't be overnight, but I think this is a really good idea.

[DerBear]

Its a good idea, more gender options allows people to diversify and have something that equals their own gender.

The only downside is it might confuse a ton of people if they see 50 gender options :P

[Croconaw]

I support this. :)

[CassnovA]

i dont see the point. i didnt even know fb had 50. thats just rediculous. there has to be a sensible cut off point before 'other' applies imo

[Elysium]

i dont see the point. i didnt even know fb had 50. thats just rediculous. there has to be a sensible cut off point before 'other' applies imo
You know something, if having a "ridiculous" amount of options means that just one more person finds the perfect label and doesn't have to let some inaccurate/uncomfortable label suffice, then it's worth it. It also promotes awareness of the fact that there are so many identities. And even if you don't know the majority of them, I think it's still important to be able to respect and acknowledge other people's identities. Whether or not you agree.

[ImCoolBeans]

Its a good idea, more gender options allows people to diversify and have something that equals their own gender.

The only downside is it might confuse a ton of people if they see 50 gender options :P

i dont see the point. i didnt even know fb had 50. thats just rediculous. there has to be a sensible cut off point before 'other' applies imo

We're not adding 50.

And sorry you don't see the point CassnovA, one of the main points of this forum is to be a comfortable environment where you can be yourself.

[DerBear]

We're not adding 50.

And sorry you don't see the point CassnovA, one of the main points of this forum is to be a comfortable environment where you can be yourself.

This statement is so true :D

[Abyssal Echo]

I think that this is a good idea because It shows support for other gender identities. :)

[CosmicNoodle]

At first I thought this pointless, but after thinking about it your right. It is a good idea, to let people have a small discreet icon that allows them to disclose there gender option. The only problem is that will so many options other than the standard thee we currently have it may get a little confusing, but on an upshot it would allow VT to diversify even more.

And this is defiantly a safe enough space, some of the things I've read are insane, yet never once have I seen anyone purposefully offend someone else, and if anyone does its moderated. This is defiantly a safe enough place to incorporate this, no questions.

[CassnovA]

We're not adding 50.

And sorry you don't see the point CassnovA, one of the main points of this forum is to be a comfortable environment where you can be yourself.

would it not be easier to just not have it on a dropdown then and have it freetype?

[backjruton]

I like it and it means Ren can finally place her gender there instead of having it set as nothing and I end up asking her if she's a boy or a girl because I forgot it's a girl's name...
(if she re-appears, WisenUpJanetWeiss :D)

Fully support this idea :)
It should solve some awkward situations like that :lol:

[TylerPanda]

We're not adding 50.

And sorry you don't see the point CassnovA, one of the main points of this forum is to be a comfortable environment where you can be yourself.

This statement is great.
I support :)

[ksdnfkfr]

One thing with the current system is that if you choose undisclosed then it displays "Gender: [no icon]". i think if someone chooses undisclosed the whole thing should be gone, the same as name, age and location are gone if those aren't filled out.

[Blood]

I support this. How many options would be added? And how would you choose just which ones to add?

[ImCoolBeans]

I support this. How many options would be added? And how would you choose just which ones to add?

I'm not 100% sure how many. And I looked through the list that Facebook uses, and determined which more or less are the same, for example, I don't think we need to have transman or transwoman if transexual is an option, seeing as transman and transwoman are just more specific examples of transgender.

[Melodic]

Wow! This is a pretty good idea! It will definitely make a lot of people feel more accepted, and that's all we want on VT right?

[BornActor]

I'm not 100% sure how many. And I looked through the list that Facebook uses, and determined which more or less are the same, for example, I don't think we need to have transman or transwoman if transexual is an option, seeing as transman and transwoman are just more specific examples of transgender.

Thanks for the support everyone! There are a lot of repeated gender identities on there within the 50 like cisgender male = cis man = cisgender man. However, I should point out that a trans[gender] man (it is important that they are two separate words, as that implies that they are not really men if merged together) is a person who was assigned female at birth (afab), but identifies as male. A trans[gender] woman is a person who was assigned male at birth (amab), but identifies as a woman. Neither of these people have necessarily altered their sex organs and may not have altered their body or even their clothing, while a transexual typically has medically transitioned to another sex. I would also add that trans women and trans men face enormously different issues in society and we might benefit from having these as two separate options, rather than merging all trans people together.

One of the necessities of initiating this is that trans people face an enormous amount of erasure and danger in being out, even in LGBT communities. If we are to be good allies, then we should make some changes.

If you would like to keep gender identities to a minimum, I would put cis male, cis female, trans man, trans woman, non-binary (with an optional fill-in box, perhaps, if they wished to be more specific about their gender identity.) But I am really just an ally, and I don't think I'm the best person to speak on this.

This link is helpful in explaining gender identities for Facebook.
http://techland.time.com/2014/02/14/a-comprehensive-guide-to-facebooks-new-options-for-gender-identity/

[Passenger]

Hey

As a member of the transgender community myself I fully support this idea as I always struggle to know what to put on forms and "other" just suggests I'm not really or haven't had much care for.

Imo the best gender opinions would be:

Cis male
Cis female

Transgender
Trans*
Trans guy/man
Trans girl/woman
MtF
FtM

Gender Queer
Gender fluid
Bigender
Agender
Third Gender
Non-binary
Neurtosis (gender neutral)

These would satisfy most of the trans* community and a customisable option could be offered if someomes identity isn't mentioned above. As for a symbol, one isn't necessary as just the words would suffice, you could have one similar to the existing ones but pointing three ways (like in my avatar) - in addition to the words - or you could just use pride flags.

Hope this helps :)

[bob97]

You dont need all fifty but have like 10? And then other still. That should cover most of them and people can feel more themselves here

[Silicate Wielder]

I agree and support this also, if you guys wish I can try and come up with some icons to help get things started

[mrpieface2]

This is a really good idea!

[thatgothgirluknow]

i think we should add at least cis male cis female and trans we wouldnt need a icon we could just have the words

[Silicate Wielder]

We could use the trangender symbol and then the modified version for those who identify outside of the gender spectrum

[Passenger]

add at least cis male cis female and trans

Okay now that'd be just rude and no better than the current system. What do you mean by "trans"? Do you mean transsexual, transman, transwoman, transgender, or even transvestite?! Me, I'm none of those so the problem still isn't solved. You've barely scratched the surface with this.

You could put "Trans*" (with the asterix) something that encompasses all identities including gender queer under the trans* umbrella. However this still doesn't cut the mustard because I think it's awfully rude that cisgender people get the specificity of saying whether they're male or female whereas for trans* you've just dumped all of us under one label which lacks that specificity and implies lazines, suggesting we're not important and you don't really care.

Please see my previous post on this thread where I believe the vast majority of identities would be covered. :)

[Karkat]

I like it and it means Ren can finally place her gender there instead of having it set as nothing and I end up asking her if she's a boy or a girl because I forgot it's a girl's name...
(if she re-appears, WisenUpJanetWeiss :D)

Fully support this idea :)
It should solve some awkward situations like that :lol:

LMAO HI

I'm actually somewhat neutral, seeing as the majority of us seem to be cis (At least, this is what you tell me on my survey)

One thing with the current system is that if you choose undisclosed then it displays "Gender: [no icon]". i think if someone chooses undisclosed the whole thing should be gone, the same as name, age and location are gone if those aren't filled out.

That does sound like a good idea.

I support this. How many options would be added? And how would you choose just which ones to add?

I feel like at least cisgender male, cisgender female, transgender male, transgender female, genderqueer and nonbinary.

I'm not 100% sure how many. And I looked through the list that Facebook uses, and determined which more or less are the same, for example, I don't think we need to have transman or transwoman if transexual is an option, seeing as transman and transwoman are just more specific examples of transgender.

I'd just like to point out that transgender is pre-op, or one who won't transition, whereas transsexual usually denotes sex change.

Thanks for the support everyone! There are a lot of repeated gender identities on there within the 50 like cisgender male = cis man = cisgender man. However, I should point out that a trans[gender] man (it is important that they are two separate words, as that implies that they are not really men if merged together) is a person who was assigned female at birth (afab), but identifies as male. A trans[gender] woman is a person who was assigned male at birth (amab), but identifies as a woman. Neither of these people have necessarily altered their sex organs and may not have altered their body or even their clothing, while a transexual typically has medically transitioned to another sex. I would also add that trans women and trans men face enormously different issues in society and we might benefit from having these as two separate options, rather than merging all trans people together.

One of the necessities of initiating this is that trans people face an enormous amount of erasure and danger in being out, even in LGBT communities. If we are to be good allies, then we should make some changes.

If you would like to keep gender identities to a minimum, I would put cis male, cis female, trans man, trans woman, non-binary (with an optional fill-in box, perhaps, if they wished to be more specific about their gender identity.) But I am really just an ally, and I don't think I'm the best person to speak on this.

This link is helpful in explaining gender identities for Facebook.
http://techland.time.com/2014/02/14/a-comprehensive-guide-to-facebooks-new-options-for-gender-identity/

I feel like genderqueer is a very important addition as well if we're covering the basics :P Good explanations and ideas, though.

Hey

As a member of the transgender community myself I fully support this idea as I always struggle to know what to put on forms and "other" just suggests I'm not really or haven't had much care for.

Imo the best gender opinions would be:

Cis male
Cis female

Transgender
Trans*
Trans guy/man
Trans girl/woman
MtF
FtM

Gender Queer
Gender fluid
Bigender
Agender
Third Gender
Non-binary
Neurtosis (gender neutral)

These would satisfy most of the trans* community and a customisable option could be offered if someomes identity isn't mentioned above. As for a symbol, one isn't necessary as just the words would suffice, you could have one similar to the existing ones but pointing three ways (like in my avatar) - in addition to the words - or you could just use pride flags.

Hope this helps :)


This sounds like a pretty good list, though I think it's neutrosis, not neurtosis :P I think the pride flag idea is a great one.

Okay now that'd be just rude and no better than the current system. What do you mean by "trans"? Do you mean transsexual, transman, transwoman, transgender, or even transvestite?! Me, I'm none of those so the problem still isn't solved. You've barely scratched the surface with this.

You could put "Trans*" (with the asterix) something that encompasses all identities including gender queer under the trans* umbrella. However this still doesn't cut the mustard because I think it's awfully rude that cisgender people get the specificity of saying whether they're male or female whereas for trans* you've just dumped all of us under one label which lacks that specificity and implies lazines, suggesting we're not important and you don't really care.

Please see my previous post on this thread where I believe the vast majority of identities would be covered. :)

I don't think it's "rude", I think the trans* community is still pretty unknown to most people, especially in detail. I mean, even some trans*people don't know everything about it. Just because gender identities that are not cisgender male or female exist, it does not make everyone automatically experts. There's some patience involved. I know you fall in the trans* umbrella, so it's easy for you to get offended when people do not automatically understand you, but it really doesn't help anyone, very least you.

[Lovelife090994]

I am male and despite the fact that I feel male inside and out albeit others would label my brain bigender and me male I say do it. I am a little neutral on the multiple gender thing, but if it makes people happy, fine. It may just be harder to discern male and female but I guess it's for the best.

[Gamma Male]

How would this fit into the p101male/female section. Like, where would gender fluid or nonbinary people be allowed to post or not post?

[Passenger]

How would this fit into the p101male/female section. Like, where would gender fluid or nonbinary people be allowed to post or not post?

I think those people would just have to take some kind of responsibility towards it as, for example with me, you don't know if I'm biologically female or male as I have no gender specified or gendered name. Personally - shoot me if I'm wrong doing this - but I post in both, obviously there's some question I can't answer if it's related to body parts etc but if it's something like make up or what kind of underwear I wear obviously both of those apply to me so I can answer them as thoroughly as a member of that biological sex would. I'm being honest, I'm not going to insult anyone or give a wrong impression. Say one day I feel like a boy, I'd be more inclined to post in the male puberty part should the questions permit and vice versa (obviously if I can't or don't want to answer questions about penises or vaginas then I can choose not to in a responsible manner. I'm not trying to fool or mislead anyone by posting in both. :))

[Rocketsnail]

I reckon this is a great Idea

[LunarScorpio]

I mean, its unique to a forum, and would be a nice touch. I am personally all for this

[Syvelocin]

How would this fit into the p101male/female section. Like, where would gender fluid or nonbinary people be allowed to post or not post?

I would agree discretion but isn't P101 more biological? I may identify genderfluid but male puberty might as well be Chinese to me. You wouldn't even find me in there to begin with. I don't think there'd be a lot of problems concerning that but I may be wrong.

I'd like to add to the main topic that I'm on a forum where queer, fluid, and neutral get a silver circle icon. That would be lovely tbh.

[Karkat]

How would this fit into the p101male/female section. Like, where would gender fluid or nonbinary people be allowed to post or not post?

P101 has to do with biological sex 9 times out of 10, I reckon, and 9 times out of 10 the times that don't are sexuality/otherwise improperly categorized, and get moved.

If you've got male genitals, boys puberty. If you've got female genitals, girls puberty. If you're intersex (which tmk no one is), I guess you could choose. I'm bigender, but if I'm answering questions, I stick to the category my biological sex is. I feel like this is what the rules state.

Not to mention that you have about a billion other categories other than P101- the rules need to apply to everyone, or they stopped being followed...

[DerBear]

Would the icon be replaced by a word or a symbol?

[xXl0sth0peXx]

There are a billion things to work out in regards to this, which even at this moment, aren't cut and clear to anyone. Whatever does happen, rest assured you will be made aware, and they are being discussed.

This is in regards to what will be added, what kind of symbol or whatnot, p101 rules, etc.

But this is being looked into, which is the more important part.

[maddogmj77]

I think you should give choices, and then a custom text box. It would make it easier for some people to explain.

[xXl0sth0peXx]

I think you should give choices, and then a custom text box. It would make it easier for some people to explain.

I can guarantee you this isn't happening, at least not at this moment. For the sake of p101 among other things, this needs to be cut and dry. It doesn't matter if your location says "pluto" or "hell", but we can't have people using "pie" or "vampire" for their gender.

This was discussed as a possibility, but for moderation purposes among other things, it won't happen. (that's not the only reason, but it plays a huge role)

[StoppingTime]

Would the icon be replaced by a word or a symbol?

We'd have the gender options and a symbol, but not one or the other

[britishboy]

VT HQ :arrow: Suggestions

I totally agree and support this.

Doing this will involve making/finding icons for the postbit for each gender option. It won't be overnight, but I think this is a really good idea.

How would you work out who can post in the boys/girls only areas?

[Luminous]

How would you work out who can post in the boys/girls only areas?

Puberty101 is mostly biological. If your sex is female, you'll post in the Puberty for Girls section, even if you don't consider yourself a girl. Same for a person who is a biological male. Adding these gender options doesn't change who we'll have posting in P101, just give them gender options. They're there now and are posting where they are comfortable, their profile just doesn't say their gender. For those who are intersex or something similar, where they are not biologically just male or female, they can post in wherever they feel most comfortable, but that doesn't happen very often.

[kryptonite]

How would you work out who can post in the boys/girls only areas?


Just a thought, and maybe this sounds a bit harsh but I don't know how else to get the point across. Would someone use a restroom with or without urinals? Which locker room would you shower and change clothes in?

Then you would probably use that forum.

[drunkbanana]

I agree with the idea . And so that people are not confused , add 3 bullets

1)Male
2)Female
3)Other (and when you go there it expands and has the options)

[elmers_gliu]

Come as you are! As long as it is not destructive to yourself and/or other.

[justarandomteen]

I support this

[terrydactyl]

I think this is a good idea, and hopefully will benefit those who don't fit perfectly into the categories of either male or female. :-)

[ImCoolBeans]

Just as an update... We have been working on this, and it should be implemented in the very near future.