Private vs State Schools

[britishboy]

Which is better? A fee paying school or a state school?

[Vlerchan]

I can't answer the question unless it gets more specific.

On an international level I'd be willing to bet that state schools on average are better: most third-world countries don't have state-funded schooling and poorly equipped private schools enter to fill the gap.

I asked what you meant in this statement: "We all know what those from state schools are like."

What are those from state schools like? I'm quite interested in your characterisations of (other) groups that I happen to fall into.Okay I will include it in the OP.
:c

[Harry Smith]

The critea for better is vague at best, I'd say that fee paying schools have better infrastructure due to the fact they can afford a swimming pool/sports field of a much higher quality as they're milking the parents of the school. I'd say that the teaching standards are pretty similar to be honest because teaching is so hard to measure. A masters degree doesn't make someone a good teacher.

The other problem is the social conditions, people who go to fee-paying schools tend to be from privileged families with a secure background, and support network. Where as more students who go to state schools are from single parent families, and don't have the support. This is why I think it's stupid to claim that fee-paying schools are simply better because the student base is much more likely to achieve on the basis of it's upbringing.

One thing I absolutely hate about the fee-paying schools and the general attitude in the higher ones (eton, Harrow) is that it fuels everything that is wrong with Britian. You've got someone like David Cameron pretty much walling through the first 20 years of his life having everything handed to him on a plate. I really don't approve of having our government ran by former members of Eton who I'd argue are completely out of touch. This is one problem with the fee-paying system-it breads elitism, and encourages it. I'll happily admit that not all the members of them are elitist snobs but from what I've seen from people like Britishboy it's clear that they see themselves as some-sort of higher social breed, however I'm aware that this can't be solely blamed on the schooling.

Something else I don't appreicate is the snobbery that seems to come with the system, and the idea that state school children as some sort of disease. I'll give you some quotes I've dug up from older threads which give a clear view about the OP's opinions on education and class

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't state schools full of violent people, sluts, idiots, rebels and those on drugs?


In my experience those who have received a private education, from middle or upper classes, have been police, kind and intelligent... We all know what those from state schools are like.

[Gamma Male]

In Texas? It goes...
Secular private schools>Public Schools>Christian private schools

Public schools are crap here.

[britishboy]

In Texas? It goes...
Secular private schools>Public Schools>Christian private schools

Public schools are crap here.

Why are Christian private schools worse than public schools?

The critea for better is vague at best, I'd say that fee paying schools have better infrastructure due to the fact they can afford a swimming pool/sports field of a much higher quality as they're milking the parents of the school. I'd say that the teaching standards are pretty similar to be honest because teaching is so hard to measure. A masters degree doesn't make someone a good teacher.

The other problem is the social conditions, people who go to fee-paying schools tend to be from privileged families with a secure background, and support network. Where as more students who go to state schools are from single parent families, and don't have the support. This is why I think it's stupid to claim that fee-paying schools are simply better because the student base is much more likely to achieve on the basis of it's upbringing.

One thing I absolutely hate about the fee-paying schools and the general attitude in the higher ones (eton, Harrow) is that it fuels everything that is wrong with Britian. You've got someone like David Cameron pretty much walling through the first 20 years of his life having everything handed to him on a plate. I really don't approve of having our government ran by former members of Eton who I'd argue are completely out of touch. This is one problem with the fee-paying system-it breads elitism, and encourages it. I'll happily admit that not all the members of them are elitist snobs but from what I've seen from people like Britishboy it's clear that they see themselves as some-sort of higher social breed, however I'm aware that this can't be solely blamed on the schooling.

Something else I don't appreicate is the snobbery that seems to come with the system, and the idea that state school children as some sort of disease. I'll give you some quotes I've dug up from older threads which give a clear view about the OP's opinions on education and class
People divorce in every class.
I can't answer the question unless it gets more specific.

On an international level I'd be willing to bet that state schools on average are better: most third-world countries don't have state-funded schooling and poorly equipped private schools enter to fill the gap.


:c

Violent, hard to control and dumb. I know there are exceptions but whenever you see violent youths on the television, 9/10 times they would have been state educated.

[PythonProject]

I had the option of going to either a state school or private and I decided state. I'm getting A/A*'s in most subjects except french witch is a B. Yes there is a couple who like to mess around yet they're getting higher than a pass on most subjects.

[britishboy]

I had the option of going to either a state school or private and I decided state. I'm getting A/A*'s in most subjects except french witch is a B. Yes there is a couple who like to mess around yet they're getting higher than a pass on most subjects.

Why choose a state school over a private school?

[Vlerchan]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't state schools full of violent people, sluts, idiots, rebels and those on drugs?
Lol.

I wonder which one I am. Anyone up for a guess?

Violent, hard to control and dumb. I know there are exceptions but whenever you see violent youths on the television, 9/10 times they would have been state educated.
Forming your opinions about a group of people on the basis of the actions of a publicized few is generally not the best idea: do you view the entire Irish nation to be terrorists as a result of the actions of a select few Irish nationals in the IRA?

The other problem is the social conditions.
There is evidence supporting the claim that once social conditions are accounted for state-run schools outperform private schools.

[Gamma Male]

Why are Christian private schools worse than public schools?

When it comes to math and english they're the same, but they tend to lack behind or be pretty biased in history, science, and social studies.

[britishboy]

Forming your opinions about a group of people on the basis of the actions of a publicized few is generally not the best idea: do you see the entire Irish nation as terrorists as a result of the actions of a select few Irish nationals in the IRA?


There is evidence supporting the claim that once social conditions are accounted for state-run schools outperform private schools.

I thought the Irish was very proud, that opinion was influenced by the IRA and recent protests.

Private schools have better buildings, facilities and teachers.

[Vlerchan]

I thought the Irish was very proud, that opinion was influenced by the IRA and recent protests.
:/

Republicans are a declining subset of the Irish nation.

Private schools have better ... teachers.
Please present verifiable evidence supporting this claim. Thanks.

[britishboy]

When it comes to math and english they're the same, but they tend to lack behind or be pretty biased in history, science, and social studies.

Oh of course yes.

:/

Republicans are a declining subset of the Irish nation.


Please support verifiable evidence supporting this claim. Thanks.

http://www.parentdish.co.uk/teen/why-private-schools-are-better-than-state/

1) Classes are smaller.
2) Stronger parent involvement.
3) Better company for your children.

For goodness sake stop double posting. Use the "multi-quote" function. -Cygnus David

[Harry Smith]

http://www.parentdish.co.uk/teen/why-private-schools-are-better-than-state/

1) Classes are smaller.
2) Stronger parent involvement.
3) Better company for your children.

That's a blog-not an academic paper or thesis. If you used than in an essay the examiner would laugh at you.

Better company? If your the basis of the fee-paying system then I'd strongly disagree as on this issue alone you've been elitist, rude and offensive. It's pure crap to say the company is better-my uncle went to a fee-paying school, and trust me he would disagree with you about that





People divorce in every class.


Violent, hard to control and dumb. I know there are exceptions but whenever you see violent youths on the television, 9/10 times they would have been state educated.

Dumb? Dumb? That's just wrong, and you now it. The fact that you've been debating with members who are state educated disproves it, the fact that on recent threads (weed legislation, UK vs US) you've been soundly defeated by state educated kids show that your point is mute. All you've done is make some reactionary point which shows your argument is be defunct in any logic, By your own theory the fact that I saw more black people on crime watch means that black people must be genetically more likely to be crimals (something I don't believe)

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2010/dec/03/state-school-pupils-university

Also your missing the issue as always-people divorce but in inner city areas there are more dependent single parent families, if a Eton family divorce the parents would be able to afford it where as a single mum from south London in a council house would fine it much harder.

I also find it fucking hilarious that you say 9/10 criminals went to state schools, I'm going to ignore the fact you don't understand social causes of crime and point out that 93% of the UK go to state schooling, so naturally the amount committing crime will be higher. It's like saying oh 9/10 criminals have hair-this means hair must be bad

http://www.parentdish.co.uk/teen/why-private-schools-are-better-than-state/

1) Classes are smaller.
2) Stronger parent involvement.
3) Better company for your children.

This doesn't make the teachers/teaching better on any account. The parent argument is wrong, surely you would know since you claim to go to a fee-paying school. The majority of boarding schools don't have much access with the parents since there either abroad or on the other side of the country. I'd even argue that state schools have the parents involded more so as they're physically closer. Also as a child of a teacher I know parental involvement doesn't make teaching better at all

[Vlerchan]

1) Classes are smaller.
2) Stronger parent involvement.
3) Better company for your children.
Would you mind explaining how the three above points relate to private schools having better teachers? Because it was the teachers I was asking about.

Your source is also quite poor. I'm not prepared to take the word of an author who is so intent on denouncing state schools that she uses not wanting to associate with "parents whose speech is ... punctuated with 'innit'" - note: I use 'innit' from time to time - as a reason to knock state-run schools. That's also the 'elitism' that Harry likes to talk about.

[tovaris]

State definately! Those privatiers are just shams...

[Cygnus]

I'll talk about developing countries and developing countries exclusively here, it goes like this.

Private international school > Local Private school > Public school

The fact is it's a no-brainer here if you have money, public schools don't have that many recourses, some aren't even full through high school, and if you want to go to college in the exterior you are out of luck in public schools. The only thing that degrades private schools and even in some cases international private schools is that nobody knows how to be fucking humble.

Also the fact that international private schools present extra things like model united nations, debate club, good and new gear for sports teams, college fairs, gives you good opportunity to explore.

Please present verifiable evidence supporting this claim. Thanks.

Well, private schools make considerably more money, so they'll hunt for teachers who have higher wages because of their quality of teaching.

[PythonProject]

Why choose a state school over a private school?

I had people who I knew going to the school (Which is ranked in the top ten for the best school) Also the private school (QEGS) was a boys only school and my father went there and believed it was better to go to a mixed school.

[britishboy]

I had people who I knew going to the school (Which is ranked in the top ten for the best school) Also the private school (QEGS) was a boys only school and my father went there and believed it was better to go to a mixed school.

I agree mixed schools, why not go to a mixed private school?

[PythonProject]

I agree mixed schools, why not go to a mixed private school?

Because the only mixed private school nearby is a boarding school and I just didn't want to go there. At the end of the day I'm getting great grades and having a laugh

[britishboy]

State definately! Those privatiers are just shams...

How are they? They're better in every way.

[PythonProject]

People who go to private schools think they're gods gift because their mummy and daddy pay for them to go to a posh school. But in fact me and many others get better grades than the privatiers

[Vlerchan]

Well, private schools make considerably more money, so they'll hunt for teachers who have higher wages because of their quality of teaching.
Whilst that is a valid line of reasoning for why Private Schools might have better teachers, it's not exactly the verifiable evidence I asked for.

[Harry Smith]

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2010/dec/03/state-school-pupils-university

[Stronk Serb]

How are they? They're better in every way.

Here going to a non-IT private school means that you were:
-too lazy to study to get into a good state school, but your dad had money
-you got a scholarship which is extremely hard

[britishboy]

Here going to a non-IT private school means that you were:
-too lazy to study to get into a good state school, but your dad had money
-you got a scholarship which is extremely hard

Well in England it means you're from a good family and you're well educated?

[Vlerchan]

Well in England it means you're from a moderately wealthy family.
Fix'd.

(Though I recognise that some private-goers are from families who made mad sacrifices in the name of their education.)

[Stronk Serb]

Well in England it means you're from a good family and you're well educated?

Harry posted a link about a study in which it was shown that state schooled students fare better at university then private schooled students.

[Harry Smith]

Well in England it means you're from a good family


Not really

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/oratory-for-blairs-younger-son-1329624.html

Do you even go to a fee-paying school? You seem to know very little about them. You don't have to be from a good family to go to one, they have scholarship schemes for poorer families, and give bonuses if your parents worked overseas (that's how my Dad got into a private school)

[tovaris]

How are they? They're better in every way.

How exactley, they breed no good students as they say... But realy for example the students from waldorf school (www.waldorf.si/) are incapable of functioning in real life, seriously, the school is ment to be a model that teches you to function in society, they dont. Dont get me started on the students from „euroschool” (now called erudio: gimnazija.erudio.si/) basicly you dont do anything for 4 years and than buy your Matura (the nationwide knowlage testing after highschool without finiching said exam you cant finish any highschool). Than of course you have the fanatical churche school (skg.stanislav.si/) with their praiers every day...
And dont even get me started on the new private universeties and higher schools...
In no way is private schooling better than public. Publicly educated always do better at universety.
Private schooling is not to be trusted or enroled in. Best is public schooling acsesible to all and standardized.

Well in England it means you're from a good family and you're well educated?

no it means you are from a rich family, a „good” as in a family with an old name can be broke while a „new” one could be loded thats the 20century for you people can buy their lordship (i know its not possible any more but stil)
besides how can you define a rich famyly as good in the first place?

[AgentHomo]

In Texas? It goes...
Secular private schools>Public Schools>Christian private schools

Public schools are crap here.

Agreed. State schools funded by the government have a core curiculum set for all students. Private schools such as Christian schools brainwash children with ignorance and lack of science and logic.

Why are Christian private schools worse than public schools?


Please go look at my first statement in this post. Christian private schools brainwash kids.

When it comes to math and english they're the same, but they tend to lack behind or be pretty biased in history, science, and social studies.

^This. Christian schools make up their own history according to their liking, degrade minority groups in social studies, and just spout ignorant shit about how absurd science is.

State definately! Those privatiers are just shams... Private school is just a big propaganda machine for the religious right.

Harry posted a link about a study in which it was shown that state schooled students fare better at university then private schooled students.

Science has proven those who were sheltered by going to private school had lower IQ's than those who went to state funded schools.

[Vlerchan]

Blind Antitheism, etc., etc.
I go to a (public) Catholic school and find that the teaching of history, etc. is quite good.

It's probably a bad idea to generalize all Christian schools on the basis of your own prejudices.

[Capto]

On the opposite side of the spectrum, I attend a completely secular private school that's actually inferior to the local public school, and am receiving a terrible education in basic history and English.

[proshots]

I think that state schools are better

[Kasp]

I've been to private and state and both have flaws and pros. There can be a lot of arrogance at private schools which always annoyed but then I also find the teachers there to be better in most cases (but not all)

[britishboy]

I am happy to be attending an independent school and I will be sending my children to one.

[tovaris]

I am happy to be attending an independent school and I will be sending my children to one.

all schools should be public

[backjruton]

I went to a state school or whatever it's called in the UK and I don't know much about the schools you have to pay for but I think the people around here that go to the private school are more annoying and bigger ass holes and I really don't see how the education can be better and I think private schools are just where the rich parents who are too proud to mix with usual people send their kids so they don't have to mix with people who aren't as rich as them... :whoops:

[britishboy]

all schools should be public

No! I would send my children to s different country if the private school system was destroyed!

[StoppingTime]

Agreed. State schools funded by the government have a core curiculum set for all students. Private schools such as Christian schools brainwash children with ignorance and lack of science and logic.

Yeah, and people (http://www.columbian.com/news/2014/may/18/22what-parents-rail-against-common-core-math/) hate (http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/missouri-lawmakers-pass-bill-to-replace-common-core-standards/article_02a22aa2-dd26-11e3-8670-10604b9f7e7c.html?comments=focus) the (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/373840/ten-dumbest-common-core-problems-alec-torres) new "common core" so maybe that's not such a great idea.


Please go look at my first statement in this post. Christian private schools brainwash kids.


Imagine, for a second, that you could either attend this school (http://nypost.com/2014/04/20/citys-worst-high-school-has-hundreds-of-empty-seats/) that has a ridiculously high failing rate, or you could somehow score a seat in a private, Christian high school. Are you honestly going to sit here and tell me that the right choice is to choose the linked high school because it's not Christian? Even if you were just going to the Christian school for a better education, and not for the religious classes? Really?


^This. Christian schools make up their own history according to their liking, degrade minority groups in social studies, and just spout ignorant shit about how absurd science is.

Really? So this Catholic school that offers AP courses (http://www.trinitycatholic.org/page.cfm?p=527) with a curriculum developed by a third party is bias towards Catholic views? And that's not uncommon - yes, they instill "Christian values" but it's your choice as to whether or not to accept them - so to make such blanket statements as "spout ignorant bullshit" shows how close-minded you are to this topic.



Private school is just a big propaganda machine for the religious right.


You do realize there are private schools that aren't religious, right? ..Right?


Science has proven those who were sheltered by going to private school had lower IQ's than those who went to state funded schools.

Science has proven that I can make any statement I want on an internet board without a source, and chances are people should probably not listen to it without some substantial evidence with which to back it up.

[Waleedbt]

Since i'm from a country that is Arabic, private schools were not segregated and taught us english from the age of 3, while public were segregated and only spoke arabic.

So, yes Private schools are way better where i'm from, and i was lucky to be in one :)

Plus, we grow out to be more open minded of different cultures.. trust me its a huge benefit. Have you seen how some arabs act outside!? god.

[tovaris]

No! I would send my children to s different country if the private school system was destroyed!

why are you so fond of the private schools? All they do is raise an berly educyted bunch with a degree.... Whilst publick schools, albet hard to change, stil give a tried and tsted educativ program that produces regular education of those who go frw it, may that be a gymnazijum or vocational school, or even universety or higher school...

[Stronk Serb]

No! I would send my children to s different country if the private school system was destroyed!

Why? You don't want your kids mixing with us stinky low-middle class apes? You think we would corrupt them with our monkey language? On average state-schooled people fare better at university. Why? Because their daddy didn't pay for the university too. They spilled blood and tears for it.

[DerBear]

I mean realistically a fee paid school generally tends to be better because less people can afford it and therefore only those who are rich can afford it. Which means those with money invest and generally get better access to resources and opportunities.

However Private vs Paid isn't really relevant too much in today's society as it was...say... 50 years ago.

[sunno111]

In the state in which i live in (New South Wales *Australia*), about 15 of the top 20 academically performing schools are public, with the whole top 5 being public. The school in which i go to is itself public and is the 7th highest performing in my state as of last year, with only 1 private school beating us

[TheN3rdyOutcast]

My school is kind of in the middle, it's free to get in, but you need to spend like $300+ on uniforms and international field trips. I think private schools are a bit better because my experience in public school was mediocre at best.