Is there a multiverse?

[Miserabilia]

DO you beleive that there is a multiverse?

I recently wrote some random s*t about some interesting theories and stuff (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206492),
and here is what it boils down to;

There must either be a universal observer (which most would say is god),
OR there must be a multiverse.

Why?
Because of the collapse of the wave function.

There must either be a universal observer to decide the collapse of the wave function, OR the wave function must collapse in both ways, in PARALEL universes.

I personaly prefer paralel universe, because it answers more than it leaves questions.

Here's a picture of why there must be one of the two things:
https://24.media.tumblr.com/2fc718548ca847db1304ca7c013675ce/tumblr_n4lkyx86xG1t7io4qo1_500.png

K, picture is a bit cryptic but imagine there is a quantummechanicly 50% event like schrodingers cat in the first box,
that is in SUPERPOSITION;
so it's in both states at once, untill the box is opened.

In the case of the top picture, there is an observer that opens the box, and by opening the box sees one of two outcomes in a 100% way, instead of two 50% outcomes.
However, that observer sees either a 100% case or the OTHER 100% case, so that observer still has a 50% chance of how they react; so THEY need their own observer to decide that, etc, etc, etc,-> god.

In the case of the lower picture, there is still the box in superposition,
but the moment it is opened and observerd,
BOTH scenarios occur, but in a different paralel world.

[sqishy]

Yes, I go with that there is the multiverse, but I think gods might and might not exist, so could go with either of the first two options, just going with the first for now.

[Miserabilia]

If there is a multiverse, we wouldn't really know anyway, but I just like the idea :)

[StoppingTime]

If there is a multiverse, we wouldn't really know anyway, but I just like the idea :)

We can't really know the answer to any of the poll questions :P But regardless it is very interesting to theorize about. Who knows, maybe sooner than later we'll be able to have more solid evidence on the matter.

[Miserabilia]

We can't really know the answer to any of the poll questions :P But regardless it is very interesting to theorize about. Who knows, maybe sooner than later we'll be able to have more solid evidence on the matter.

ofcourse we can't know fo sure, but just pick whatever appeals more or just makes more general sense to you.

[Gamma Male]

Of course at this point it hasn't been proven, but the vast majority of physicists, astronomers, and cosmologists seem to support the possibly. I'm gonna go with probably, but maybe not.

[Miserabilia]

Of course at this point it hasn't been proven, but the vast majority of physicists, astronomers, and cosmologists seem to support the possibly. I'm gonna go with probably, but maybe not.

I was thinking something similar.
There's a possibility, but it's not anything certain.

[Capto]

Uncertain until direct observation can be made. ;)

[ksdnfkfr]

I watched all of the tv series called Fringe, and it was all about a parallel universe and it was really entertaining. So it's a cool idea I think. It's a possibility I suppose. But I really think it's just modern day mythical place(s). I just realized it's funny that this forum has a parallel forum I belong to. Both similar but different. I'm the same person in both forums (same user name, avatar etc) but there are certain differences as well. Like as far as VT is concerned, there's a parallel Ezra on GT. Actually I'm on 5 forums, so there's 5 parallel Ezra's... I think I just blew my own mind o_O

jnA-C6DmRSM

[Horatio Nelson]

I'm gonna say no, because the thought of a parallel universe just hurts my head.

[Miserabilia]

Uncertain until direct observation can be made. ;)

Kind of the problem, quantummechanicly, the moment you observe it the outcome if fixed ):


I watched all of the tv series called Fringe, and it was all about a parallel universe and it was really entertaining. So it's a cool idea I think. It's a possibility I suppose. But I really think it's just modern day mythical place(s). I just realized it's funny that this forum has a parallel forum I belong to. Both similar but different. I'm the same person in both forums (same user name, avatar etc) but there are certain differences as well. Like as far as VT is concerned, there's a parallel Ezra on GT. Actually I'm on 5 forums, so there's 5 parallel Ezra's... I think I just blew my own mind o_O

jnA-C6DmRSM

Yea I watched fringe too, like 4 seasons or something before I stopped, or atleast I watched a loooot of episodes and then I kinda quit.
lol.
I personaly don't like their presentation of alternative universes, as it involves free will instead of quantum uncertainty.

I'm gonna say no, because the thought of a parallel universe just hurts my head.
Meh, to me it seems less extraordinairy than the idea of a god for example.

[Snowfall]

What if there's an alternate universe where alternate universes don't exist?

Food for thought.

I believe for every last chain of combinations or possibilities there is a parallel universe, even one that is self contradictory or contradicts any and other possible universes. BBC had a wonderful documentary on the subject a few years back. Worth a watch imo.

[Miserabilia]

What if there's an alternate universe where alternate universes don't exist?

Food for thought.

I believe for every last chain of combinations or possibilities there is a parallel universe, even one that is self contradictory or contradicts any and other possible universes. BBC had a wonderful documentary on the subject a few years back. Worth a watch imo.

If there was an alternate universe where alternate universes don't exist, it wouldn't be an alternate universe :D

I believe for every last chain of combinations or possibilities there is a parallel universe

Well it's very possible (on small scales).

[ksdnfkfr]

I personaly don't like their presentation of alternative universes, as it involves free will instead of quantum uncertainty.

Well yeah, exactly. Wait, what? o_O :P

[Miserabilia]

Well yeah, exactly. Wait, what? o_O :P

lol I mean,
they are presenting it like a multiverse is created purely because the choises people make.
While the multiverse I am talking about is simply caused by quantum possibilities, uncertainty, the collapse of the wave function;
something as large scale as the human brain can't cause a multiverse because there is simply not enough uncertainty.
If that makes any sense.
/:

xD

[ksdnfkfr]

lol I mean,
they are presenting it like a multiverse is created purely because the choises people make.
While the multiverse I am talking about is simply caused by quantum possibilities, uncertainty, the collapse of the wave function;
something as large scale as the human brain can't cause a multiverse because there is simply not enough uncertainty.
If that makes any sense.
/:

xD

And I'm the one that gets called "Little Eisenstein"?

Although I do get your drift.

[Miserabilia]

And I'm the one that gets called "Little Eisenstein"?

Although I do get your drift.

:metal:

[Lovelife090994]

I think it is a possibility for parallel universes. Even if you look to the major faiths the Bible for instance says in the beginning God made the Heavens and the Earth. It doesn't say "only" and in most versions heaven is in plural. So theoretically he made heavens, "universes." Who knows though? Scientifically, who is to say our universe is sole? What is beyond the universe? Are we in some black clear membraned bubble and what we see far off is another universe? Are we in this universe because it exists in the present with laws of physics? Is there a spiritual universe? Is there a material past universe? One could present all ideas and even still we don't know. I believe it could be possible. With there being a God considering how vast this universe is with it's brilliance and beauty and even how perfect Earth is as an Eden in the Black like any Creator or artist God probably didn't stop at one universe. He didn't stop at one species. So to me it is intriguing. Scientifically, spiritually, neither it is amazing no less. But despite my ideas I do not know for sure. Life itself is hard to explain.

[Capto]

Kind of the problem, quantummechanicly, the moment you observe it the outcome if fixed ):


Kind of ruins the joke when you explain it like that. :(

[Miserabilia]

Kind of ruins the joke when you explain it like that. :(

ssssh
sssh
no tears
only dreams

[Typhlosion]

K, picture is a bit cryptic but imagine there is a quantummechanicly 50% event like schrodingers cat in the first box,
that is in SUPERPOSITION;
so it's in both states at once, untill the box is opened.

I, with my determinism, do no believe in quantum probability, quoting Einstein:
I, at any rate, am convinced that He does not throw dice.
Even if there isn't any good evidence towards this thought, and actually against it.

On the multiverse thing... I don't see why it must exist or not. As such I do not hold a posiion on the matter.

[Snowfall]

If there was an alternate universe where alternate universes don't exist, it wouldn't be an alternate universe :D



Well it's very possible (on small scales).

An alternate universe would literally define every last possibility, as for it TO EXIST IN THE FIRST PLACE THE POSSIBILITY THAT NEVER HAPPENED IN ONE SET OF UNIVERSES MUST OCCUR IN A DIFFERENT SET, THUS CREATING SAID DIFFERENT SET, ALTHOUGH THAT SET THEN CREATES ANOTHER AND SO FORTH. I'm not particularly sure what I'm saying here anymore, but for a parallel universe to exist, it'd take ANY possibility.

[Miserabilia]

I, with my determinism, do no believe in quantum probability,

I'm a determinist; but quantum probablity is not something you beleif in or not; the probablity wave function is PROVEN.
Do you know the double slit experiment?
It prooved not only that matter at small scale travels in more than one possible direction, but also that it can be at two places at once, and that a superposition does exist.
It's proven, and also that when we observe a state of the particle, it become fixed; meaning that that either transports us to one of several possible paralel universes, or that our consciousnes is somehow special in the collapsing of wave functions.
:lol:


I, at any rate, am convinced that He does not throw dice.
Even if there isn't any good evidence towards this thought, and actually against it.

On the multiverse thing... I don't see why it must exist or not. As such I do not hold a posiion on the matter.


An alternate universe would literally define every last possibility, as for it TO EXIST IN THE FIRST PLACE THE POSSIBILITY THAT NEVER HAPPENED IN ONE SET OF UNIVERSES MUST OCCUR IN A DIFFERENT SET, THUS CREATING SAID DIFFERENT SET, ALTHOUGH THAT SET THEN CREATES ANOTHER AND SO FORTH. I'm not particularly sure what I'm saying here anymore, but for a parallel universe to exist, it'd take ANY possibility.

:what: xD

[Capto]

Nah, quantum probability itself is still the most mind-bogglingly murky aspect of stat meets quantum mechanics, what with the whole contradictory Schrödinger equation vs. stochastic wavefunction collapse shebang.

And yeah, it's fine to not believe in theory like quantum probability given that the whole ideal is ipso facto just Kolmogorovian stochastic theory, which a determinist would naturally be inclined to disagree with. I'd personally be adverse to calling you a determinist if you believe, however, in the stochastic description of quantum mechanics. These two aspects are by default contrasting.

Of course, personally, as a student of a student of Kolmogorov, I'm naturally biased to prefer the Kolmogorovian initial basic stochastic processes as removing the commutative nature of them, which removes in turn the situational directional aspect to having a clearly defined space that thus renders the whole processes as being more general and modular overall.

[backjruton]

I don't get it... Any idea why? :L everything in this part of the forum is too confusing as I'm not as "wise" as I'd like to think so :):):)

[Capto]

It's supposed to be confusing.

[Miserabilia]

Nah, quantum probability itself is still the most mind-bogglingly murky aspect of stat meets quantum mechanics, what with the whole contradictory Schrödinger equation vs. stochastic wavefunction collapse shebang.

And yeah, it's fine to not believe in theory like quantum probability given that the whole ideal is ipso facto just Kolmogorovian stochastic theory, which a determinist would naturally be inclined to disagree with. I'd personally be adverse to calling you a determinist if you believe, however, in the stochastic description of quantum mechanics. These two aspects are by default contrasting.

Of course, personally, as a student of a student of Kolmogorov, I'm naturally biased to prefer the Kolmogorovian initial basic stochastic processes as removing the commutative nature of them, which removes in turn the situational directional aspect to having a clearly defined space that thus renders the whole processes as being more general and modular overall.

I don't beleive in a stochastic interpetation, many worlds will always make more sense to me.
I'm still a determinist in that manner though, because eventualy, even though time may split into different worlds, this splitting is still in a way predetermined, as is every possible outcome of anything.
Then again, I'm basicly a newb that only knows the very superfisial side of the whole theory haha

I don't get it... Any idea why? :L everything in this part of the forum is too confusing as I'm not as "wise" as I'd like to think so :):):)

You're not suposed to get it it's quantum physics it doesn't even make sense haha

[Gamma Male]

I don't get it... Any idea why? :L everything in this part of the forum is too confusing as I'm not as "wise" as I'd like to think so :):):)

Considering Einstein didn't get it either, I'd say you don't have anything to worry about.:lol:

[Capto]

I don't beleive in a stochastic interpetation, many worlds will always make more sense to me.
I'm still a determinist in that manner though, because eventualy, even though time may split into different worlds, this splitting is still in a way predetermined, as is every possible outcome of anything.
Then again, I'm basicly a newb that only knows the very superfisial side of the whole theory haha

Given that stochastic processes govern half of quantum physics and virtually the entirety of post-wave collapse theory, it's rather important to be somewhat believing in probability.

[Typhlosion]

I'm a determinist; but quantum probablity is not something you beleif in or not; the probablity wave function is PROVEN.
Do you know the double slit experiment?
It prooved not only that matter at small scale travels in more than one possible direction, but also that it can be at two places at once, and that a superposition does exist.
It's proven, and also that when we observe a state of the particle, it become fixed; meaning that that either transports us to one of several possible paralel universes, or that our consciousnes is somehow special in the collapsing of wave functions.
:lol: Mindblow me one more time, but surely there is the possibility of anything that could determine what will happen? Even if unknown yet? You're saying that every time a quantum event will happen a second universe arises?

Jeezus.

[Capto]

Mindblow me one more time, but surely there is the possibility of anything that could determine what will happen? Even if unknown yet? You're saying that every time a quantum event will happen a second universe arises?

Jeezus.

Every time a 'quantum event' happens, which is to say, really, every single time that exists, a multitude of possible universes will arise, of which our current one will mold to form one of those possibilities. Given that there are essentially an infinite amount of eigenstates for a single particle to take after time elapses, and given the sheer magnitude of the number of particles in our current universe, there's essentially an infinite amount of alternate 'universes' that our current one can possibly take.

Of course, a whole new universe isn't exactly created. That would be ridiculous. What does happen is that a new mold is projected unto our current cosmos, which then manifests itself into that new state and trend. It's just that there's a near-infinite amount of possible universes that our current one can become.

[ImCoolBeans]

I do not know, but I do like to theorize on the topic. I think it sounds about as, or even less, extraordinary than religious reasoning. I find it hard to believe that there is one, closed universe. If that is the case, where does it end and what is it like at the end? We might not know the answer, or some may already know it and haven't shared it, but the capacity for thought it bring is endless.

[Miserabilia]

Mindblow me one more time, but surely there is the possibility of anything that could determine what will happen? Even if unknown yet? You're saying that every time a quantum event will happen a second universe arises?

Jeezus.

Well we have no idea but theoreticaly it could be the case.

Every time a 'quantum event' happens, which is to say, really, every single time that exists, a multitude of possible universes will arise, of which our current one will mold to form one of those possibilities. Given that there are essentially an infinite amount of eigenstates for a single particle to take after time elapses, and given the sheer magnitude of the number of particles in our current universe, there's essentially an infinite amount of alternate 'universes' that our current one can possibly take.

Of course, a whole new universe isn't exactly created. That would be ridiculous. What does happen is that a new mold is projected unto our current cosmos, which then manifests itself into that new state and trend. It's just that there's a near-infinite amount of possible universes that our current one can become.

It's just that there's a near-infinite amount of possible universes that our current one can become.

Well we actualy don't know that; we feel like our universe is "the universe, but how do you know not all those universes exist, and we are just traveling along on of the lines?


I do not know, but I do like to theorize on the topic. I think it sounds about as, or even less, extraordinary than religious reasoning. I find it hard to believe that there is one, closed universe. If that is the case, where does it end and what is it like at the end? We might not know the answer, or some may already know it and haven't shared it, but the capacity for thought it bring is endless.

Yup. :yes: