God is indeed dead

[AgentHomo]

So lately I've been noticing a lot of religious propaganda movies out in theaters in the last month or so. I actually convinced myself to see God's Not Dead. Ha what a f***en joke it was. Very cliche, boring plot line. Cliche characters. Of course the very progressive atheist is diagnosed with cancer and a death sentence. A professor is an atheist. They make the non believers out to be very bad people. Weak arguments made on the Christian part. I wanted to walk out when they brought Duck Dynasty into it. But I did walk out when the kid won over the class. That I couldn't deal with. Just a ridiculous movie overall.

On the other hand, I am all for free speech. If the religious right want a jab at movie making with their beliefs, have fun. But I have every right to see it as ignorance, bigotry, and utter ridiculous propaganda., which is exactly what it is.

Now that I got my little rant out of the way, what do you all think? Do the religious flocks actually have a chance at stealing Hollywood's thunder with traditional views and convert people to their beliefs using movies?

[Harry Smith]

Nah don't worry, I mean 50% of the old testament is too unrealistic to be made into films. The days of big budget religious films are over since people don't really like to watch them anymore, and they're pretty boring in my opinion.

Sure they'll still be around, but what can you do?

[sqishy]

I don't agree that the gods are dead. They sure are not as alive as before, but old and long-lasting things stay that way a lot of the time. So they are old, but also long-lasting :(

[Lovelife090994]

I have yet to see the movie. But one thing is true, no god is dead as long as others believe. And God himself isn't dead. Having the man who was speaking ill fall ill at the end is reaping what he's sewn. Being atheistic and progressive is not saying God is dead, nor is it to undermine someone. Cancer is terrible but if all you is speak ill then ill will come back.

[Srom]

I have seen God's Not Dead and I thought it was a very good movie. Although God isn't dead because if He was Christianity wouldn't exist and so would the world. Read 1st Corinthians 15. It talks about how if Christ didn't rise from the grave, the teachings would be useless but we know that Christ did rise from the grave so therefore God isn't dead.

[PinkFloyd]

Trust me. They don't stand a chance against actual movie makers.

EDIT: I get that you're really passionate about being an atheist and all that but ripping on peoples' beliefs is just plain not nice unless it's Shirley phelps-Roper... lol

Not every christian is a bible thumping homophobe, you know... I'm not the slightest bit religious and I know that.

[Karkat]

Wow, this is gnosticism vs gnosticism at its finest.

I'd also like to add that the entire topic at hand, as well as the point went right over everyone's head. I feel like Harry and I were the only ones who got it. (EDIT: And Rob, who ninja'd me)

If you're all going to get offended by A. someone else's beliefs, and B. a play on words, maybe ROTW isn't the place for you? Just a thought.

I personally don't MIND when a religious movie pops up here and there- I'll almost definitely never see them. However, if every other movie starts to be religious, I'll have a problem.

Thankfully, I think we're starting to get to the point where we- as a country if nothing else- are religiously diverse enough to let our religion stay in our churches. If this was a fascist country that was largely influenced by religion, I could see it happening, but I think at least America can avoid this.

[xxdrakeTxx]

i dont see why christians dont rip a few more pages off the pagans and make intresting bloody movies. i mean there have been tons of viking or scandinavian movies that were a sucsess and amazing as well as many other occult themed movies. but of caurse christian themed movies are more of propaganda than a actual film its actually kind of sad.

[Miserabilia]

That movie sounds awful, but hHEY I ALWAYS SEEM TO BE THE ONLY ONE TO REALIZE THIS:
This is what most american movies are like.

Seriously, I don't think americans/"you people" (:P) have any idea how overly religious you seem to me and other north west europeans (Where atheism is more dominant than religion),
seriously, atheists are frowned upon or just die,
christians are always the good hearted people,
and it's always about "ermergerd you can do it as long as you beleive in god"
I dunno, it's not always the case but when It is I just facepalm.

[thatcountrykid]

So lately I've been noticing a lot of religious propaganda movies out in theaters in the last month or so. I actually convinced myself to see God's Not Dead. Ha what a f***en joke it was. Very cliche, boring plot line. Cliche characters. Of course the very progressive atheist is diagnosed with cancer and a death sentence. A professor is an atheist. They make the non believers out to be very bad people. Weak arguments made on the Christian part. I wanted to walk out when they brought Duck Dynasty into it. But I did walk out when the kid won over the class. That I couldn't deal with. Just a ridiculous movie overall.

On the other hand, I am all for free speech. If the religious right want a jab at movie making with their beliefs, have fun. But I have every right to see it as ignorance, bigotry, and utter ridiculous propaganda., which is exactly what it is.

Now that I got my little rant out of the way, what do you all think? Do the religious flocks actually have a chance at stealing Hollywood's thunder with traditional views and convert people to their beliefs using movies?

You know ita fine to beleive what you want but its really just rude that your out ripping on people for what they beleive. You dont see me, a non religious person who beleives homosexuality and sexuality in general should be left out of school and public places, calling some people a liberal, close minded bigot who gets mad when things dont change to fit exactly how they want it.

[Gamma Male]

Yeah, and have you seen the newest one, "Heaven is for real"? Its about this boy who has a near death experience and sees heaven.
*facepalm*
Heaven isn't for real, but hallucinations are.

1You know ita fine to beleive what you want but its really just rude that your out ripping on people for what they beleive.2 You dont see me, a non religious person who beleives homosexuality and sexuality in general should be left out of school and public places, calling some people a liberal, close minded bigot who gets mad when things dont change to fit exactly how they want it.
1 This is a forum meant specifically for debate and discussion of ideas. Don't like it, don't come here.
2Correct me if I'm wrong, but the OP didn't actually attack religious people. He just critisized a movie and claimed to disagree with religious belief. There's a difference between critisizing someone's beliefs and attacking them personally.

Please do not double post. -Cygnus David

[Lovelife090994]

1 This is a forum meant specifically for debate and discussion of ideas. Don't like it, don't come here.
2Correct me if I'm wrong, but the OP didn't actually attack religious people. He just critisized a movie and claimed to disagree with religious belief. There's a difference between critisizing someone's beliefs and attacking them personally.

Debating is not to insult religious beliefs. Check some of these comments. Others agree that AgentHomo went too far.

[Vlerchan]

... stealing Hollywood's thunder with traditional views and convert people to their beliefs using movies?

Man, Hollywood hasn't been progressive since the fifties.

I also don't care if people produce movies that you (or anyone else for that matter) don't find appealing. It's hardly thread-worthy.

[Miserabilia]

Yeah, and have you seen the newest one, "Heaven is for real"? Its about this boy who has a near death experience and sees heaven.
*facepalm*
Heaven isn't for real, but hallucinations are.

Yup.

Man, Hollywood hasn't been progressive since the fifties.

I also don't care if people produce movies that you (or anyone else for that matter) don't find appealing. It's hardly thread-worthy.

Large hollywood productions are complete b*llcr*p 99% of the time.
There are so little good writers and producers and so much of the same repeated and overused clichés, pumped up with "good american messages" and a large special effects budget.

[thathelperguy]

It's called free speech. People have just as much right to make a movie based on the Bible and God as they do to make a movie based on the Quran or any other religious text. Just because a person or group of people don't agree with the views of a particular movie doesn't mean that it's any less important or viable to others.

[Miserabilia]

It's called free speech. People have just as much right to make a movie based on the Bible and God as they do to make a movie based on the Quran or any other religious text. Just because a person or group of people don't agree with the views of a particular movie doesn't mean that it's any less important or viable to others.

And I'll quote the OP in this:

On the other hand, I am all for free speech. If the religious right want a jab at movie making with their beliefs, have fun. But I have every right to see it as ignorance, bigotry, and utter ridiculous propaganda., which is exactly what it is.

[CharlieHorse]

god was never living, so therefore can't be dead :P
mwahaha
fuckit, don't worry about nothing. Religion is on the decline.

[Vlerchan]

fuckit, don't worry about nothing. Religion is on the decline ...

... in the first world, where population growth is also in decline.

[Karkat]

That movie sounds awful, but hHEY I ALWAYS SEEM TO BE THE ONLY ONE TO REALIZE THIS:
This is what most american movies are like.

Seriously, I don't think americans/"you people" (:P) have any idea how overly religious you seem to me and other north west europeans (Where atheism is more dominant than religion),
seriously, atheists are frowned upon or just die,
christians are always the good hearted people,
and it's always about "ermergerd you can do it as long as you beleive in god"
I dunno, it's not always the case but when It is I just facepalm.

So we've been reduced to "you people" now, regardless of our actual religious stance? Thanks.

As for that last sentence, pretty much.

You know ita fine to beleive what you want but its really just rude that your out ripping on people for what they beleive. You dont see me, a non religious person who beleives homosexuality and sexuality in general should be left out of school and public places, calling some people a liberal, close minded bigot who gets mad when things dont change to fit exactly how they want it.

I don't get what any of this has to do with the subject at hand.

You have every right to see whatever you don't agree with as bullshit, he has every right to see religion as bullshit.

This coming from someone who is a theist, and is somewhat religious.

Also

a liberal, close minded bigot

Ironic string of words you got there.

who gets mad when things dont change to fit exactly how they want it.

If I wasn't aware of your age and if your grammar was a little better, I might mistake this for satire.

1 This is a forum meant specifically for debate and discussion of ideas. Don't like it, don't come here.
2Correct me if I'm wrong, but the OP didn't actually attack religious people. He just critisized a movie and claimed to disagree with religious belief. There's a difference between critisizing someone's beliefs and attacking them personally.

Exactly.

Debating is not to insult religious beliefs. Check some of these comments. Others agree that AgentHomo went too far.

Yeah, and they were all so insightful and non-biased that they let their religious beliefs cloud their eyes while the point of the thread went right over their heads.

This is my entire problem with religion.

EDIT: Including you. You were one of the people. :>_>:

And I'll quote the OP in this:

Exactly. (Though it is a little funny that I'll only be quoting this short part. :lol: Ah, yes, I agree that you did, in fact quote OP.)

[CharlieHorse]

... in the first world, where population growth is also in decline.

Oh really? Can you show me some statistics? I'm genuinely curious.

[Vlerchan]

Oh really? Can you show me some statistics? I'm genuinely curious.

This is an article from the nineties. It's gives the best projections of what I found, though. Focus' on Europe. The most important statistic is that showing how Europe's proportion of the world population will drop 4% in 30 years.

The population of the continent of Europe in 1985 (excluding Russia) was 492 million, which was 10% of the world population[b] and equal to the population of Africa (CEC 1991). The European Community, together with East Germany, constituted 70% of the total. [b]By 2025, however, it is estimated that Europe’s share of the world population will be reduced to 6% and will be only one-third of the population of Africa. The main reason for this downward trend is that the European Community (EC) has experienced a fall in its birth rate of one-third during the last 20 years and is characterized by a relatively stable death rate. The population growth, therefore, fell from two million people per annum during the first half of the 1960s to 500,000–600,000 per annum during the second half of the 1980s. In the 1990s the Community‘s population is approaching zero growth and it will be in decline after 2000 (CEC 1991). Germany’s population has been in decline since 1974, while the United Kingdom (UK), Belgium, Luxembourg and Denmark have experienced zero growth since the beginning of the 1980s (ESCEC 1986). The average number of children per woman (total fertility rate) for all member states except Ireland is less than two children. By 2000 there will be as many people aged 65 years and over as under 15 years of age (Eurostat 1991).

http://www.pop.org/content/fertility-decline-in-western-europe-1727

This focus' on America's decline. Though, some of it can be explained away by the current economic recession.

American women are delaying having children and having fewer of them, setting new record lows in birthrate data, the federal government said Friday. In 2011, 3,953,590 births were registered in the United States, down 1 percent from the previous year. This was the smallest number of U.S. births since 1998, and represented declines in the white, black and Hispanic populations, researcher Joyce A. Martin and colleagues at the National Center for Health Statistics say in their new report, “Births: Final Data for 2011.” The nation’s general fertility rate fell again, to a historical low of 63.2 births per 1,000 women ages 15 to 44. This overall contraction in childbearing was also seen in the nation’s total fertility rate, which dipped to 1.89 children per woman — well below the 2.1 children-per-woman replacement rate that a nation needs for demographic stability. The U.S. fertility rate was at replacement level in 2007, but it has been falling ever since, the researchers note. As has been often reported, the birthrate for teens ages 15 to 19 has regularly fallen to a historic low, and 2011 was no different: The teen birthrate dropped 8 percent, to 31.3 births per teen, from 2010 to 2011.
The number of babies born to these teens also dropped to 329,772 — the fewest in 65 years, researchers said, referring to the 322,381 births to teens in 1946.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/28/birthrate-continues-decline-us/

Japan tends to be the most talk about case because unlike The European Community it's not only experiencing a slow-down in population growth but it's actually experiencing a population decline.

The National Institute of Population and Social Security Research on March 27 announced a population estimate for Japan in 2040. As expected, what emerges out of this is a nation with an unprecedented rapidly aging and declining population. The implications of the estimate must be taken very seriously and preparations made to ameliorate the impact of this situation.

The estimate shows population trends in 2040 for each municipality. It is imperative that both the central and local governments design a sustainable social security system in time as well as to consider ways to secure a sufficient number of workers to prevent a decline in industrial capability. Local governments also need to work out measures aimed at maintaining and stabilizing people’s lives in local communities by foreseeing what will happen to their industries, social services, transportation and so on.

The estimate shows that Japan’s population in 2040 will stand at 107.276 million, a decline of about 20 million from 2010′s 128.057 million. A January 2012 estimate by the same institute had shown that in 2060, Japan’s population will number 86.737 million, about 30 percent less from the 2010 level.

Japan has been experiencing a natural population decrease since 2007, with annual deaths topping births. In 2011, the total fertility rate — the average number of babies a woman gives birth to during her life — was 1.39. A total fertility rate of 2.07 is required to maintain population levels. Although the public sector has been taking steps to make it easier for women to have more children, it will be extremely difficult to improve the situation.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2013/04/17/editorials/japans-depopulation-time-bomb/#.U1WqYvldVAA

This is all pretty off-topic so leaving it at that might be a good idea.

[jaylou]

It's called free speech. People have just as much right to make a movie based on the Bible and God as they do to make a movie based on the Quran or any other religious text. Just because a person or group of people don't agree with the views of a particular movie doesn't mean that it's any less important or viable to others.

it dos not make the movie good though

[Lovelife090994]

So we've been reduced to "you people" now, regardless of our actual religious stance? Thanks.

As for that last sentence, pretty much.



I don't get what any of this has to do with the subject at hand.

You have every right to see whatever you don't agree with as bullshit, he has every right to see religion as bullshit.

This coming from someone who is a theist, and is somewhat religious.

Also



Ironic string of words you got there.



If I wasn't aware of your age and if your grammar was a little better, I might mistake this for satire.



Exactly.



Yeah, and they were all so insightful and non-biased that they let their religious beliefs cloud their eyes while the point of the thread went right over their heads.

This is my entire problem with religion.

EDIT: Including you. You were one of the people. :>_>:




Exactly. (Though it is a little funny that I'll only be quoting this short part. :lol: Ah, yes, I agree that you did, in fact quote OP.)

I beg your pardon?

[Karkat]

I beg your pardon?

The point of this thread. You missed it.

[thatcountrykid]

So we've been reduced to "you people" now, regardless of our actual religious stance? Thanks.

As for that last sentence, pretty much.



I don't get what any of this has to do with the subject at hand.

You have every right to see whatever you don't agree with as bullshit, he has every right to see religion as bullshit.

This coming from someone who is a theist, and is somewhat religious.

Also



Ironic string of words you got there.



If I wasn't aware of your age and if your grammar was a little better, I might mistake this for satire.



Exactly.



Yeah, and they were all so insightful and non-biased that they let their religious beliefs cloud their eyes while the point of the thread went right over their heads.

This is my entire problem with religion.

EDIT: Including you. You were one of the people. :>_>:



Exactly. (Though it is a little funny that I'll only be quoting this short part. :lol: Ah, yes, I agree that you did, in fact quote OP.)

Yeah he can think religion is bullshit just like how i thing homosexuality is bullshit but he shouldnt be flat out rude and hateful to people who dont agree with him.

-edited. Completely unnecessary. -Emerald Dream.

[darthearth]

Yeah, and have you seen the newest one, "Heaven is for real"? Its about this boy who has a near death experience and sees heaven.
*facepalm*
Heaven isn't for real, but hallucinations are.


...........



Don't think he could have hallucinated his miscarried sister. You atheists seem so dogged and desperate to me, why you people are so determined not to believe in God and Heaven I can't figure out, such a positive thing to try so hard to disparage. It's completely looney to me.

To the OP, it would sure be nice if Hollywood could make movies that would be able to open the eyes of the unbeliever, what a wonderful thing that would be. So in short, I WISH. God can do anything, but I would suspect that these movies won't change preconceptions. People of faith will go to judge, unbelievers will go to be entertained.

[Lovelife090994]

The point of this thread. You missed it.

No dear. You misunderstood his animosity to a religious idea. I can never be okay with that since that is not fair. How can you be for equality, but for only one group of people that is not a race by itself and has religious people in it? It doesn't make sense. Forgive me, but I do see it. I do not expect you to see it, you can't. But you can't not because you are incapable. You can't see as I do because you are not one who holds those ideals as dear which is no problem, it is a difference we two have.

[bobbi]

I don't agree that the gods are dead. They sure are not as alive as before, but old and long-lasting things stay that way a lot of the time. So they are old, but also long-lasting :(

I totally agree

[phuckphace]

So lately I've been noticing a lot of religious propaganda movies out in theaters in the last month or so. I actually convinced myself to see God's Not Dead. Ha what a f***en joke it was. Very cliche, boring plot line. Cliche characters. Of course the very progressive atheist is diagnosed with cancer and a death sentence. A professor is an atheist. They make the non believers out to be very bad people. Weak arguments made on the Christian part. I wanted to walk out when they brought Duck Dynasty into it. But I did walk out when the kid won over the class. That I couldn't deal with. Just a ridiculous movie overall.

tl;dr: UGH VAPID XTIAN BIGOTS UGH! *tips fedora*

[Karkat]

-edited. Completely unnecessary. -Emerald Dream.

Don't think he could have hallucinated his miscarried sister. You atheists seem so dogged and desperate to me, why you people are so determined not to believe in God and Heaven I can't figure out, such a positive thing to try so hard to disparage. It's completely looney to me.

To the OP, it would sure be nice if Hollywood could make movies that would be able to open the eyes of the unbeliever, what a wonderful thing that would be. So in short, I WISH. God can do anything, but I would suspect that these movies won't change preconceptions. People of faith will go to judge, unbelievers will go to be entertained.

I can't figure out why you Christians are so determined in getting people to believe in heaven and hell.

By the way, I'm a theist. So don't pull the atheist card on me. It won't work.

Also, "opening the eyes of the unbeliever" sounds a hell of a lot like propaganda in my opinion.

No dear. You misunderstood his animosity to a religious idea. I can never be okay with that since that is not fair. How can you be for equality, but for only one group of people that is not a race by itself and has religious people in it? It doesn't make sense. Forgive me, but I do see it. I do not expect you to see it, you can't. But you can't not because you are incapable. You can't see as I do because you are not one who holds those ideals as dear which is no problem, it is a difference we two have.

Ok, for one, I think you misunderstand the concept of race. You can't just stick 'race' on any group of people. Race being a stupid social construct to begin with.

Excuse me? I'd like to you please refrain from shoving your words in my mouth, thanks.

I'm a theist. I am religious as well. I see no harm in someone expressing dissatisfaction with RELIGION so long as individuals are not targeted. He hasn't targeted individuals in this. Honestly, it's a damn mild post coming from him, as he's personally infuriated me with his anti-religious tirades before.

I hold my beliefs dear. You keep speaking for me when you don't know a damn thing about me. I just tend to brush things off. I don't get offended by people who have different ideas because it's asinine, and a waste of time and energy. Save your offense for the things that really matter. You'd be doing us all a favor.

I'd also really appreciate if you'd stop attacking my intelligence and character. Thanks.

[Blood]

God? What god? Hahaha.


People are going to make religious films, and they most likely always are. As long as they're not forcing anybody to watch them I don't see the problem at all.

[Lovelife090994]

Once again. Ironic.

No, that just means I don't think you're grammatically proficient enough to pull off satire. Sorry. But whatever helps you sleep at night.

Also, no. I tend to disagree with him on a lot of things. Do I think he's harsh sometimes, especially when it comes to religion? Yes, but not on this one. This is honestly one of his milder, more reasonable posts.

If you can't handle dissent, maybe you should stay away from ROTW, just a thought.



I can't figure out why you Christians are so determined in getting people to believe in heaven and hell.

By the way, I'm a theist. So don't pull the atheist card on me. It won't work.

Also, "opening the eyes of the unbeliever" sounds a hell of a lot like propaganda in my opinion.



Ok, for one, I think you misunderstand the concept of race. You can't just stick 'race' on any group of people. Race being a stupid social construct to begin with.

Excuse me? I'd like to you please refrain from shoving your words in my mouth, thanks.

I'm a theist. I am religious as well. I see no harm in someone expressing dissatisfaction with RELIGION so long as individuals are not targeted. He hasn't targeted individuals in this. Honestly, it's a damn mild post coming from him, as he's personally infuriated me with his anti-religious tirades before.

I hold my beliefs dear. You keep speaking for me when you don't know a damn thing about me. I just tend to brush things off. I don't get offended by people who have different ideas because it's asinine, and a waste of time and energy. Save your offense for the things that really matter. You'd be doing us all a favor.
I'd also really appreciate if you'd stop attacking my intelligence and character. Thanks.

What am I, contagious? I never insulted your character ot intellegence. Ethnicity is a real thing but homosexuality is no ethnicity. That's all that said. Now, please don't curse at me I get enough of that from my family on a daily basis and from other outlets. Now, why don't we all just calm down and have a cup of tea before this erupts into a cat fight. My offense is to someone being asinine to a group. The OP clearly was to Christians. Not all are Christian. I don't expect a non-Christian to see that since it doesn't concern them. I have no problem with peaceful atheists. It's the negative abusive atheists, false negative people, and the like that I have an issue with. Now, before my English falls into a lowly collection of diction that I never dive into I am ending this now. Guess we'll have to agree to disgaree. Except to the person you quoted. He's right. Why be so against something you don't believe in? It doesn't affect you (hopefully). If it affects you, fine go to town. Otherwise silence is a virtue.

[Karkat]

-edited. completely unnecessary. -Emerald Dream.

What am I, contagious? I never insulted your character ot intellegence. Ethnicity is a real thing but homosexuality is no ethnicity. That's all that said. Now, please don't curse at me I get enough of that from my family on a daily basis and from other outlets. Now, why don't we all just calm down and have a cup of tea before this erupts into a cat fight. My offense is to someone being asinine to a group. The OP clearly was to Christians. Not all are Christian. I don't expect a non-Christian to see that since it doesn't concern them. I have no problem with peaceful atheists. It's the negative abusive atheists, false negative people, and the like that I have an issue with. Now, before my English falls into a lowly collection of diction that I never dive into I am ending this now. Guess we'll have to agree to disgaree. Except to the person you quoted. He's right. Why be so against something you don't believe in? It doesn't affect you (hopefully). If it affects you, fine go to town. Otherwise silence is a virtue.

Ok, for one thing, race is different from ethnicity. You did not say ethnicity. Of course homosexuality isn't an ethnicity- when did that even come up to begin with??

I personally agree with OP that religion doesn't belong in Hollywood, honestly. That, and atheists are always portrayed horribly. I think he got on the 'offensive' side of dealing with things, but I'll take this to the 'I hate anyone who is religious' or whatever he was on about earlier. I did get very angry at him for that, and I gave him a piece of my mind. I think he's full of shit, and that he needs to get off his high horse- obviously this was just put here to provoke people, and it succeeded. Obviously.

But are y'all really going to stoop to his level? Gosh, I at least tried to contribute to some relevant conversation rather than resorting to...Unsolicited biased remarks about my beliefs that are irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Let's put it that way.

I agree. I can't stand 'abusive atheists', and AgentHomo falls into that category. I'm not even going to say I'm sorry, because he is fully aware of it. Or one of the most blissfully ignorant people I've ever met, I guess.

But I also can't stand 'abusive' theists. And I consider holding your beliefs to be absolute in condescension of another's beliefs abusive. Which is a large part of why I don't like gnosticism- people are usually arrogant about their beliefs. I mean, not all are, but it's kind of in the nature of gnosticism.

Sure, you can be fully confident that something is so, but you don't have to rag on those who are not as sure as you are.

I'm not against the beliefs, just the display of them. Ironically, I guess you could say we're on opposite sides of the same coin here. But none of the posts that gripe at how "God is not dead because ____" are contributing to the conversation, they're irrelevant. They look at the title, and not the post. That's my entire problem, it really has nothing to do with theism or atheism whatsoever.

[Professor Moopicorn]

Nah don't worry, I mean 50% of the old testament is too unrealistic to be made into films. The days of big budget religious films are over since people don't really like to watch them anymore, and they're pretty boring in my opinion.

Sure they'll still be around, but what can you do?

Well, I think that some pretty good movies could be made based on the Old Testament. You just need the right people making it. I reckon that the unrealistic things in the bible would make some good films because you could make them look really cool with some good special effects. Like when Moses led God's people out of Egypt and split the Red Sea. That could look cool in a movie.

Anyway, I watched The Passion of Christ on Easter and I thought it was pretty good. Maybe not everyone's cup of tea, it is pretty gruesome, but I liked it.

[thathelperguy]

So lately I've been noticing a lot of religious propaganda movies out in theaters in the last month or so. I actually convinced myself to see God's Not Dead. Ha what a f***en joke it was. Very cliche, boring plot line. Cliche characters. Of course the very progressive atheist is diagnosed with cancer and a death sentence. A professor is an atheist. They make the non believers out to be very bad people. Weak arguments made on the Christian part. I wanted to walk out when they brought Duck Dynasty into it. But I did walk out when the kid won over the class. That I couldn't deal with. Just a ridiculous movie overall.

On the other hand, I am all for free speech. If the religious right want a jab at movie making with their beliefs, have fun. But I have every right to see it as ignorance, bigotry, and utter ridiculous propaganda., which is exactly what it is.

Now that I got my little rant out of the way, what do you all think? Do the religious flocks actually have a chance at stealing Hollywood's thunder with traditional views and convert people to their beliefs using movies?

Soooo, why exactly did you go see a "religious propaganda movie"? I mean, it's pretty obvious that you don't like those kind of movies so what was the point of you to go see it? And if you ARE for free speech then why get on here and slam them for making the movie and playing movie critic? And who said that the "religious flocks" were trying to "steal Hollywood's thunder"? Just curious. Somehow I have a feeling the kinds of replies I will get.

[Lovelife090994]

I'm not making excuses for his anti-religious garbage, which I personally find as awful as pro-religious garbage. I'm just saying that he has some sort of a semblance of a thread topic here, and that everyone is entirely overreacting.

Also, I wasn't insulting your intelligence, just your literary aptitude. Which has so far been justified.



Ok, for one thing, race is different from ethnicity. You did not say ethnicity. Of course homosexuality isn't an ethnicity- when did that even come up to begin with??

I personally agree with OP that religion doesn't belong in Hollywood, honestly. That, and atheists are always portrayed horribly. I think he got on the 'offensive' side of dealing with things, but I'll take this to the 'I hate anyone who is religious' or whatever he was on about earlier. I did get very angry at him for that, and I gave him a piece of my mind. I think he's full of shit, and that he needs to get off his high horse- obviously this was just put here to provoke people, and it succeeded. Obviously.

But are y'all really going to stoop to his level? Gosh, I at least tried to contribute to some relevant conversation rather than resorting to...Unsolicited biased remarks about my beliefs that are irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Let's put it that way.

I agree. I can't stand 'abusive atheists', and AgentHomo falls into that category. I'm not even going to say I'm sorry, because he is fully aware of it. Or one of the most blissfully ignorant people I've ever met, I guess.

But I also can't stand 'abusive' theists. And I consider holding your beliefs to be absolute in condescension of another's beliefs abusive. Which is a large part of why I don't like gnosticism- people are usually arrogant about their beliefs. I mean, not all are, but it's kind of in the nature of gnosticism.

Sure, you can be fully confident that something is so, but you don't have to rag on those who are not as sure as you are.

I'm not against the beliefs, just the display of them. Ironically, I guess you could say we're on opposite sides of the same coin here. But none of the posts that gripe at how "God is not dead because ____" are contributing to the conversation, they're irrelevant. They look at the title, and not the post. That's my entire problem, it really has nothing to do with theism or atheism whatsoever.

To me someone should be as religious as they see fit as long as it isn't imposing. I.e. a woman in a hijab, a man wearing a Jesus loves me shirt, me with my angelic profile picture. I don't get abusive atheists. Ah, but they don't get me so why bother? Stooping to his level wouldn't work and even if it did we'd all be in mud by then. I feel Hollywood should make more religious movies for all faiths. I am glad they have Christian movies. This atheist professor represents the bad atheists. You and I both know that many are ok with all faiths but one, Christianity, that has got to be addressed else no one will believe that happens. Now to you, I know not of gnosticism. I just know that as a boy with little hope and love all I have is Jesus right now. He's my rock.

[Karkat]

-edited. Completely unnecessary. -Emerald Dream.

To me someone should be as religious as they see fit as long as it isn't imposing. I.e. a woman in a hijab, a man wearing a Jesus loves me shirt, me with my angelic profile picture. I don't get abusive atheists. Ah, but they don't get me so why bother? Stooping to his level wouldn't work and even if it did we'd all be in mud by then. I feel Hollywood should make more religious movies for all faiths. I am glad they have Christian movies. This atheist professor represents the bad atheists. You and I both know that many are ok with all faiths but one, Christianity, that has got to be addressed else no one will believe that happens. Now to you, I know not of gnosticism. I just know that as a boy with little hope and love all I have is Jesus right now. He's my rock.

Now see, we're finally getting somewhere.

The whole thing wasn't even all that much about religion. I mean, yes, it pissed me off that there was so much blatant gnostic condescension one way or the other, but mostly that no one wanted to actually discuss the topic at hand, but rather they wanted to prove OP wrong by being irrelevant and shoving their beliefs in everyone's face.

I don't care how much you show pride in your religion, so long as you don't imply that everyone else is wrong, or that they're idiots, and a lot of times that's what these sorts of things boil down to. There are just as many abusive theists as abusive atheists, and personally I get the atheists more, I just think they're idiots. Petty is probably a better word, but I still think they're idiots.

I personally disagree, and think that religion should be kept to those who believe in it- there's no harm in teaching others about it if they are willing and receptive, but it doesn't need to be pushed in everyone's faces. It's a private matter for the most part, in my opinion.

I'm going to ignore the irony in those last couple of sentences. Well, mostly, as I obviously pointed it out.

Anyways, like I said, I don't care if you're religious, or even if you're gnostic, but there's no need for condescension. Especially when your response has literally nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[CharlieHorse]

This is an article from the nineties. It's gives the best projections of what I found, though. Focus' on Europe. The most important statistic is that showing how Europe's proportion of the world population will drop 4% in 30 years.

The population of the continent of Europe in 1985 (excluding Russia) was 492 million, which was 10% of the world population[b] and equal to the population of Africa (CEC 1991). The European Community, together with East Germany, constituted 70% of the total. [b]By 2025, however, it is estimated that Europe’s share of the world population will be reduced to 6% and will be only one-third of the population of Africa. The main reason for this downward trend is that the European Community (EC) has experienced a fall in its birth rate of one-third during the last 20 years and is characterized by a relatively stable death rate. The population growth, therefore, fell from two million people per annum during the first half of the 1960s to 500,000–600,000 per annum during the second half of the 1980s. In the 1990s the Community‘s population is approaching zero growth and it will be in decline after 2000 (CEC 1991). Germany’s population has been in decline since 1974, while the United Kingdom (UK), Belgium, Luxembourg and Denmark have experienced zero growth since the beginning of the 1980s (ESCEC 1986). The average number of children per woman (total fertility rate) for all member states except Ireland is less than two children. By 2000 there will be as many people aged 65 years and over as under 15 years of age (Eurostat 1991).

http://www.pop.org/content/fertility-decline-in-western-europe-1727

This focus' on America's decline. Though, some of it can be explained away by the current economic recession.

American women are delaying having children and having fewer of them, setting new record lows in birthrate data, the federal government said Friday. In 2011, 3,953,590 births were registered in the United States, down 1 percent from the previous year. This was the smallest number of U.S. births since 1998, and represented declines in the white, black and Hispanic populations, researcher Joyce A. Martin and colleagues at the National Center for Health Statistics say in their new report, “Births: Final Data for 2011.” The nation’s general fertility rate fell again, to a historical low of 63.2 births per 1,000 women ages 15 to 44. This overall contraction in childbearing was also seen in the nation’s total fertility rate, which dipped to 1.89 children per woman — well below the 2.1 children-per-woman replacement rate that a nation needs for demographic stability. The U.S. fertility rate was at replacement level in 2007, but it has been falling ever since, the researchers note. As has been often reported, the birthrate for teens ages 15 to 19 has regularly fallen to a historic low, and 2011 was no different: The teen birthrate dropped 8 percent, to 31.3 births per teen, from 2010 to 2011.
The number of babies born to these teens also dropped to 329,772 — the fewest in 65 years, researchers said, referring to the 322,381 births to teens in 1946.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/28/birthrate-continues-decline-us/

Japan tends to be the most talk about case because unlike The European Community it's not only experiencing a slow-down in population growth but it's actually experiencing a population decline.

The National Institute of Population and Social Security Research on March 27 announced a population estimate for Japan in 2040. As expected, what emerges out of this is a nation with an unprecedented rapidly aging and declining population. The implications of the estimate must be taken very seriously and preparations made to ameliorate the impact of this situation.

The estimate shows population trends in 2040 for each municipality. It is imperative that both the central and local governments design a sustainable social security system in time as well as to consider ways to secure a sufficient number of workers to prevent a decline in industrial capability. Local governments also need to work out measures aimed at maintaining and stabilizing people’s lives in local communities by foreseeing what will happen to their industries, social services, transportation and so on.

The estimate shows that Japan’s population in 2040 will stand at 107.276 million, a decline of about 20 million from 2010′s 128.057 million. A January 2012 estimate by the same institute had shown that in 2060, Japan’s population will number 86.737 million, about 30 percent less from the 2010 level.

Japan has been experiencing a natural population decrease since 2007, with annual deaths topping births. In 2011, the total fertility rate — the average number of babies a woman gives birth to during her life — was 1.39. A total fertility rate of 2.07 is required to maintain population levels. Although the public sector has been taking steps to make it easier for women to have more children, it will be extremely difficult to improve the situation.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2013/04/17/editorials/japans-depopulation-time-bomb/#.U1WqYvldVAA

This is all pretty off-topic so leaving it at that might be a good idea.

neat

[ComfortableInChaos]

I don't feel like reading the entire thread... but yeah, my cousin and I went and it was awful. I'm an atheist, myself, but I didn't understand why we didn't get any valid points from the atheist, which made the movie completely biased. I, too, found it very cliché when the kids all stood up, every single one of them. (I got in for free, thank fuck.) Nobody pay to see this 'should've been on LifeTime' movie.

[Karkat]

-edited. Insulting another member's grammar or spelling in the debate forum not only is unnecessary, but petty and juvenile. That's not the point of this forum. Please stop. -Emerald Dream.

I don't feel like reading the entire thread... but yeah, my cousin and I went and it was awful. I'm an atheist, myself, but I didn't understand why we didn't get any valid points from the atheist, which made the movie completely biased. I, too, found it very cliché when the kids all stood up, every single one of them. (I got in for free, thank fuck.) Nobody pay to see this 'should've been on LifeTime' movie.

Thing is, Christians aren't willing to admit that atheism has any valid points. Or that it's a valid way to live one's life. And that's at best. At worst, atheism is some sort of plague. Most Christians are extremely biased. Then again, a fair amount of atheists are as well, but ironically that usually comes about because theists can be so biased.

Yeah, be thankful that you didn't have to waste the $10 or whatever. :P

[ComfortableInChaos]

More like three apostrophes, an o, an e, a comma, and the I needed to be capitalized. You're welcome.

Are you sure you're in college? Because that's a high school level comeback. Or are college kids into regression these days? Hmm.

Also, this is totally off topic. Do yourself a favor and please quit dragging this out. This is the last time I'm responding. Bye.



Thing is, Christians aren't willing to admit that atheism has any valid points. Or that it's a valid way to live one's life. And that's at best. At worst, atheism is some sort of plague. Most Christians are extremely biased. Then again, a fair amount of atheists are as well, but ironically that usually comes about because theists can be so biased.

Yeah, be thankful that you didn't have to waste the $10 or whatever. :P

EXACLTY MY MOTHERFUCKING POINT!!! OMF, YESSS. It's so fucking annoying too because they wanna go and say that any other religion, whether it be Satanism, Buddhism, Islam/Muslim, Hinduism, or whatever the fuck you praise/believe in, that religion is wrong. THEY ALL HAVE NO PHYSICAL PROOF. THEY ONLY HAVE A BOOK. THAT'S IT.

[Karkat]

EXACLTY MY MOTHERFUCKING POINT!!! OMF, YESSS. It's so fucking annoying too because they wanna go and say that any other religion, whether it be Satanism, Buddhism, Islam/Muslim, Hinduism, or whatever the fuck you praise/believe in, that religion is wrong. THEY ALL HAVE NO PHYSICAL PROOF. THEY ONLY HAVE A BOOK. THAT'S IT.

Exactly. That's my problem. I don't care if you read the Bible, if you believe in god or Jesus, etc. I actually read the Bible myself occasionally. But for Christ's sake (literally), please, don't be nasty to others about it!

And it really goes for any belief or opinion- so long as it's not like, extremely awful, like "black people should be killed" or "raping women is good". It's ok to have an opinion, it's ok to hold it dear, but it's your opinion, not anyone else's. Don't shove it in anyone's face. If people will agree with you, or take your side, or want to learn about something you say, they'll be more likely to do it if you're nice.

[ComfortableInChaos]

Exactly. That's my problem. I don't care if you read the Bible, if you believe in god or Jesus, etc. I actually read the Bible myself occasionally. But for Christ's sake (literally), please, don't be nasty to others about it!

And it really goes for any belief or opinion- so long as it's not like, extremely awful, like "black people should be killed" or "raping women is good". It's ok to have an opinion, it's ok to hold it dear, but it's your opinion, not anyone else's. Don't shove it in anyone's face. If people will agree with you, or take your side, or want to learn about something you say, they'll be more likely to do it if you're nice.

Yeah, if you don't pressure people and force them, then of course people will like the idea better. I mean, come on, people. You don't need to apply force, unless, that is, you're a bunch of rapists...

[Karkat]

Yeah, if you don't pressure people and force them, then of course people will like the idea better. I mean, come on, people. You don't need to apply force, unless, that is, you're a bunch of rapists...

Sadly, people don't always realize that :P

[Kahn]

Religion as a social construct is useful. Religion can help guide an individual to grow spiritually. However, organized religion is not needed to live a spiritual lifestyle. Just some food for thought.

I feel like a broken record in these types of threads. The OP chose a distasteful title for the thread but it drew discussion nonetheless. I haven't seen the movie.

[Karkat]

Religion as a social construct is useful. Religion can help guide an individual to grow spiritually. However, organized religion is not needed to live a spiritual lifestyle. Just some food for thought.

I feel like a broken record in these types of threads. The OP chose a distasteful title for the thread but it drew discussion nonetheless. I haven't seen the movie.

Agreed, mostly anyways.

I think it would've been completely uncalled for in any other case, but as the movie is called God's Not Dead, it was at least somewhat fitting.

Anyways.

[Miserabilia]

So we've been reduced to "you people" now, regardless of our actual religious stance? Thanks.

As for that last sentence, pretty much.



I don't get what any of this has to do with the subject at hand.

You have every right to see whatever you don't agree with as bullshit, he has every right to see religion as bullshit.

This coming from someone who is a theist, and is somewhat religious.

Also



Ironic string of words you got there.



If I wasn't aware of your age and if your grammar was a little better, I might mistake this for satire.



Exactly.



Yeah, and they were all so insightful and non-biased that they let their religious beliefs cloud their eyes while the point of the thread went right over their heads.

This is my entire problem with religion.

EDIT: Including you. You were one of the people. :>_>:



Exactly. (Though it is a little funny that I'll only be quoting this short part. :lol: Ah, yes, I agree that you did, in fact quote OP.)

So we've been reduced to "you people" now, regardless of our actual religious stance? Thanks.

Haha no I meant you people as in you americans, but it's true that you're not all like that :P

Don't think he could have hallucinated his miscarried sister. You atheists seem so dogged and desperate to me, why you people are so determined not to believe in God and Heaven I can't figure out, such a positive thing to try so hard to disparage. It's completely looney to me.

To the OP, it would sure be nice if Hollywood could make movies that would be able to open the eyes of the unbeliever, what a wonderful thing that would be. So in short, I WISH. God can do anything, but I would suspect that these movies won't change preconceptions. People of faith will go to judge, unbelievers will go to be entertained.


You atheists seem so dogged and desperate to me,
Wow I can almost taste the obvious hate in that sentence, atleast try to adress some people instead of the whole group.
How would you feel If I said the same about "You religious people"?
It's clearly offensive.

why you people are so determined not to believe in God and Heaven I can't figure out,

Lol. Why are you so determined to beleive it does exist? These questions are pointless unless we are talking about a personal reasoning for our prefered viewpoints.

It's completely looney to me.


http://memecrunch.com/meme/MJC9/thanks-for-that/image.png

God can do anything,
I see he hasn't tried to convert me yet.

[darthearth]

......
Why are you so determined to beleive it does exist? These questions are pointless unless we are talking about a personal reasoning for our prefered viewpoints.

....



If a boy being introduced to his miscarried sister in Heaven that he knew nothing about beforehand isn't enough to convince you, I call that nothing other than pathetic. Clear and strong evidence of God and Heaven and you atheists go to such great lengths and try so hard to refuse, tooth and nail, to acknowledge such a wonderful reality. Why? What's so bad about the fact there is God, a Heaven and afterlife? It blows my mind! I don't even want to continue with this it feels so "yucky". Gross! Atheists will say physical chemicals/forces have phenomenal awareness and many would call people like that boy in the Heaven is for Real movie a liar before accepting the possibility of eternal life. The term, "masochistic" comes to mind as a description.

But just. Yuck. I'm done. Over.

[Vlerchan]

Your anecdotal evidence unfortunately lacks in proving the existence of a god or heaven.

As such, I will remain skeptical.

[saea97]

If a boy being introduced to his miscarried sister in Heaven that he knew nothing about beforehand isn't enough to convince you, I call that nothing other than pathetic.


Arguments and evidence convince me. I've watched both God's Not Dead and Heaven is for Real (like I had nothing better to do with 4 hours) and they were absolutely vapid and devoid of both. I even stopped laughing at them after a few hours.

[Stronk Serb]

Anectodal evidence doesn't pass with me. I can say aliens beamed me on Mothership Zeta, implanted me with an 18 foot long anal probe which causes me to fart fire and beamed me down into my bedroom. As impossible as it sounds, people would have to believe me.

[Miserabilia]

If a boy being introduced to his miscarried sister in Heaven that he knew nothing about beforehand isn't enough to convince you, I call that nothing other than pathetic. Clear and strong evidence of God and Heaven and you atheists go to such great lengths and try so hard to refuse, tooth and nail, to acknowledge such a wonderful reality. Why? What's so bad about the fact there is God, a Heaven and afterlife? It blows my mind! I don't even want to continue with this it feels so "yucky". Gross! Atheists will say physical chemicals/forces have phenomenal awareness and many would call people like that boy in the Heaven is for Real movie a liar before accepting the possibility of eternal life. The term, "masochistic" comes to mind as a description.

But just. Yuck. I'm done. Over.

I call that nothing other than pathetic.

Wow thanks. Let's stick to not insulting each other, right?

Clear and strong evidence of God and Heaven

It's not clear and strong evidence.
It's testimonial, and furthermore it cannot be repeated;
it's not a repeatable experiment, there's no proof here.
There is even a possibility in this case that he lied about it, made it up, saw something that just coincidentaly resembled his sister, or somehow did know about her,

but we'll never know, because this is just a one time thing.
No science here.

you atheists go to such great lengths and try so hard to refuse, tooth and nail, to acknowledge such a wonderful reality.

RIght, because OBVIOUSLY christianity is the only truth.
I mean,
what if the kid went up to allah and saw a bunch of virgins including his sister? Religion can do anything right so why not?
Why not use your argument to proove ANY other religion?

What's so bad about the fact there is God, a Heaven and afterlife?

"fact"
rofl.

Atheists will say physical chemicals/forces have phenomenal awareness

I lost count of how many times I have told you this. Most atheist that are intersted and studied in this subject DON'T SAY THAT.
There's probably a part of the brain that simulates what we know as p-awarenes. The whole thing can simulate it, not physical forces themselves.

If you are going to be childish and continue with the "yuck" and "you people are gross because you have different ideas than me",
take your generalizations somewhere else.

[darthearth]

Not because I want to continue with this, but I must point out a couple of things.


Wow thanks. Let's stick to not insulting each other, right?

I was referring to a pathetic conclusion not a pathetic person.

It's not clear and strong evidence.

Yes, it is clear and strong evidence, it's just not for whatever cause convincing evidence to your mindset.

It's testimonial, and furthermore it cannot be repeated;
it's not a repeatable experiment, there's no proof here.
There is even a possibility in this case that he lied about it, made it up, saw something that just coincidentaly resembled his sister, or somehow did know about her,

but we'll never know, because this is just a one time thing.
No science here.

There is no science here, that much is correct. But the belief that only science can reveal truths is called "scientism". I like rationalism. It utilizes things like reason, even reason deriving from strong anecdotal evidence.

RIght, because OBVIOUSLY christianity is the only truth.
I mean,
what if the kid went up to allah and saw a bunch of virgins including his sister? Religion can do anything right so why not?
Why not use your argument to proove ANY other religion?


As my mother always says: "Cross that bridge when you come to it." But still, I wasn't specifically referring to any particular religion, just ideas within religion that derive directly from the evidence discussed, that of God (a Creator) and Heaven.


"fact"
rofl.

I believe there will come a time when you won't be rofl. Yes, I know this is not much more than unsubstantiated preaching, but nevertheless, I think it will be the case.

I lost count of how many times I have told you this. Most atheist that are intersted and studied in this subject DON'T SAY THAT.
There's probably a part of the brain that simulates what we know as p-awarenes. The whole thing can simulate it, not physical forces themselves.

And this is where, for some reason, there is no comprehension of what is being said. If your entire brain is chemicals and forces, and nothing more, that means all functions of the brain, including p-awareness, is realized by these chemicals and forces. I've lost count of how many times I've tried to make you realize this self-evident truth. "Simulating" p-awareness, it doesn't matter!!! It is still physical chemicals and forces!!! It doesn't matter if the function results from the entire system working together in whatever fashion or not, the system is STILL just chemicals and forces. Therefore, rationally, if you claim the brain "simulates" p-awareness, it is nothing other than saying that chemicals and physical forces are p-aware.

If you are going to be childish and continue with the "yuck" and "you people are gross because you have different ideas than me",
take your generalizations somewhere else.

"Yuck" and "Gross" are not childish, they are accurate descriptions of my feelings toward having to deal with what I think are completely unreasonable and irrational viewpoints. Now maybe I'm done.

[Miserabilia]

Not because I want to continue with this, but I must point out a couple of things.




I was referring to a pathetic conclusion not a pathetic person.



Yes, it is clear and strong evidence, it's just not for whatever cause convincing evidence to your mindset.



There is no science here, that much is correct. But the belief that only science can reveal truths is called "scientism". I like rationalism. It utilizes things like reason, even reason deriving from strong anecdotal evidence.




As my mother always says: "Cross that bridge when you come to it." But still, I wasn't specifically referring to any particular religion, just ideas within religion that derive directly from the evidence discussed, that of God (a Creator) and Heaven.




I believe there will come a time when you won't be rofl. Yes, I know this is not much more than unsubstantiated preaching, but nevertheless, I think it will be the case.



And this is where, for some reason, there is no comprehension of what is being said. If your entire brain is chemicals and forces, and nothing more, that means all functions of the brain, including p-awareness, is realized by these chemicals and forces. I've lost count of how many times I've tried to make you realize this self-evident truth. "Simulating" p-awareness, it doesn't matter!!! It is still physical chemicals and forces!!! It doesn't matter if the function results from the entire system working together in whatever fashion or not, the system is STILL just chemicals and forces. Therefore, rationally, if you claim the brain "simulates" p-awareness, it is nothing other than saying that chemicals and physical forces are p-aware.



"Yuck" and "Gross" are not childish, they are accurate descriptions of my feelings toward having to deal with what I think are completely unreasonable and irrational viewpoints. Now maybe I'm done.

If your entire brain is chemicals and forces, and nothing more, that means all functions of the brain, including p-awareness, is realized by these chemicals and forces.

Yes, as a whole they can produce an observing process.

Therefore, rationally, if you claim the brain "simulates" p-awareness, it is nothing other than saying that chemicals and physical forces are p-aware.

* a group of chemicals and forces arranged in the right way can simulate what we know as awareness

Completely unreasonable and irrational viewpoints.
That's not irnoic at all.
It's obviously more reasonable to beleive in the supernatural,
to beleive in what can't be proven.
It's obviously more rational to beleive in angels and demons,
and UFO's and monsters and every thing every person ever beleived because of their own testemonial experience,
than to rely on what can be proven or atleast shown to some extent.

So there's this boy that sees his sister.
So what?
All that shows is that he saw his sister.
Even if it's 100% accurate and true,
what does it show?
It's not eidence for heaven, god, or any of that.
Those are just conclusions.

[Vlerchan]

Quick question:

If his sister died as a result of a miscarriage then she was never baptized and/or never accepted god, etc., and so died indebted with original sin. It's my understanding that she should then have no place in heaven. In the words of St. Fulgentius:

"Be assured, and doubt not, that not only men who have attained the use of their reason, but also little children who have begun to live in their mothers' womb and have there died, or who, having been just born, have passed away from the world without the sacrament of holy baptism, administered in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, must be punished by the eternal torture of undying fire; for although they have committed no sin by their own will, they have nevertheless drawn with them the condemnation of original sin, by their carnal conception and nativity."

And more damningly:

"Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God (John 3:5)."

I won't repeat that I believe your evidence to be of poor standered, since this is like the third time we've discussed NDEs and the third time I - and others - have outright rejected your claims.

[Sir Suomi]

They have every right to make this movie. I don't agree with the movie, but I'm not going to go out of my way to complain about it. Honestly, I'm not even going to go to the movie. From what I've read from reviews, it's a very poorly acted, poorly written, and poorly produced movie, with the only reason for it's popularity is the religious theme. There would be absolutely no good reason for me to go to it. It'd be like a vegetarian going to a Bar-B-Q, and later on whining about the "slaughter" of the animals.

[phuckphace]

I just find it incredible that someone would actually defend the degenerate morass that is Hollywood. you don't even have to be religious to see that anything that "steals Hollywood's thunder" is a GOOD THING. nuke Hollywood from orbit.

[Miserabilia]

I just find it incredible that someone would actually defend the degenerate morass that is Hollywood. you don't even have to be religious to see that anything that "steals Hollywood's thunder" is a GOOD THING. nuke Hollywood from orbit.

I wouldn't nuke it but I aggree with you :lol:

[Pulp501]

I don't see why people need to keep trying to tell people their religion is wrong. Christians aren't the only ones who do it, atheists do it a lot too. Most of these religious movies coming out are made for christians, not for atheists to go see and get mad about.

[phuckphace]

I don't see why people need to keep trying to tell people their religion is wrong. Christians aren't the only ones who do it, atheists do it a lot too. Most of these religious movies coming out are made for christians, not for atheists to go see and get mad about.

agreed. and even if the last sentence was actually the case, it still wouldn't be a big deal. lots of people are religious, lots of people have always been religious, get over it.

[Sanctum]

So lately I've been noticing a lot of religious propaganda movies out in theaters in the last month or so. I actually convinced myself to see God's Not Dead. Ha what a f***en joke it was. Very cliche, boring plot line. Cliche characters. Of course the very progressive atheist is diagnosed with cancer and a death sentence. A professor is an atheist. They make the non believers out to be very bad people. Weak arguments made on the Christian part. I wanted to walk out when they brought Duck Dynasty into it. But I did walk out when the kid won over the class. That I couldn't deal with. Just a ridiculous movie overall.

On the other hand, I am all for free speech. If the religious right want a jab at movie making with their beliefs, have fun. But I have every right to see it as ignorance, bigotry, and utter ridiculous propaganda., which is exactly what it is.

Now that I got my little rant out of the way, what do you all think? Do the religious flocks actually have a chance at stealing Hollywood's thunder with traditional views and convert people to their beliefs using movies?

convert people to their beliefs? how dare u even say such things? whats the benefit for them in ur becoming a religious person? religion is the way of life. it shows u how to live. u can be a religious person without informing anyone

[Miserabilia]

convert people to their beliefs? how dare u even say such things? whats the benefit for them in ur becoming a religious person? religion is the way of life. it shows u how to live. u can be a religious person without informing anyone

But these people obviously didn't, since they obviously made a movie about it, which clearly has a converting agenda

[audiophile5]

If you're interested in such theories, I can recommend two books (I hope they weren't mentioned here before - if they were, sorry!).
First is Laurence Gardner's The Magdalene Legacy, which analyzes what it is said to us in the Bible from a more realistic point of view and brings very powerful arguments against that.

The second is Jose Saramago's The Gospel according to Jesus Christ, in which it is said that Jesus realized what Christianity will become and sacrificed himself to stop the things from evolving in such a direction, yet what he feared the most (all the violence and cold blood created by religon) actually happen.

[Gamma Male]

For the people using the probably drugged up on painkillers, near death child's account as proof I refer you to the following sites.
greatdreams.com/ufos/alien-abduction.htm (greatdreams.com/ufos/alien-abduction.htm)
www.bfro.net/gdb/
www.ghostsofamerica.com/

[tovaris]

of course god is dead, i killed him personaly.
Prove me wron :D

[Capto]

Not one mention of Nietzsche yet prior to this post?

Tsch. I'm disappointed in you lot.

[Typhlosion]

Movie: Yes, all atheists hate god!

Ugh.

Beyond that, the christian kid had any good argument and the teacher also had his absurdities. Not representative of reality, but representative of the skewed perceived reality by conservative christians.

[CutYouDown]

Now that I got my little rant out of the way, what do you all think? Do the religious flocks actually have a chance at stealing Hollywood's thunder with traditional views and convert people to their beliefs using movies?

I haven't seen or heard of God's Not Dead so I can't argue with or against what you said about the movie. Now for your question, which is a rather rude way of stating it, especially since they are obviously much more than "flocks". These movies aren't mainly attempting to convert people into their ways, but trying to enlighten them towards the religion and to give a soulful and enjoyable movie to those already part of the religion. I encourage you to watch the movie "Son Of God", it's very interesting, and it takes more of a historical approach by following the Bible, rather than showing the evil of Atheists and the holiness of Christians.

P.S. I am a Christian

[Aajj333]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wVfUimq2KeI I dont believe that god is dead.

[Lovelife090994]

I haven't seen or heard of God's Not Dead so I can't argue with or against what you said about the movie. Now for your question, which is a rather rude way of stating it, especially since they are obviously much more than "flocks". These movies aren't mainly attempting to convert people into their ways, but trying to enlighten them towards the religion and to give a soulful and enjoyable movie to those already part of the religion. I encourage you to watch the movie "Son Of God", it's very interesting, and it takes more of a historical approach by following the Bible, rather than showing the evil of Atheists and the holiness of Christians.

P.S. I am a Christian

Thank you for your civility and kindness. Also, you are right. These movies are to show the real true and enlightened side of things with the faith. Also, to educate people of the religion without looking into the petty polics and radical lies. I loved the movie Son Of God, but I loved The Bible as well. Be blessed!

[Gamma Male]

I just saw it for the first time.
My reaction?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Oh, and when all the students stood up? :lol:
*In nasaly, high pitched Eric Cartman voice*"Why do yew hayte Goood!?! Why do yew HAYTE GOOOD!"

[Stronk Serb]

I just saw it for the first time.
My reaction?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Oh, and when all the students stood up? :lol:
*In nasaly, high pitched Eric Cartman voice*"Why do yew hayte Goood!?! Why do yew HAYTE GOOOD!"

Lol. I go tp school with a bunch of zealots. When I came to school in my Dead Kennedys- In God We Trust Inc. T-shirt, I got so much hate. The shirt is essentially golden Jesus crucified on a cross wrapped up in dollars. There is a bar code above Jesus's head with the number 666 stamped onto it. I am going to buy a Kreator T-shirt, preferably the one with a dude with a pentagram on his head. We are Legion.

[Gamma Male]

Lol. I go tp school with a bunch of zealots. When I came to school in my Dead Kennedys- In God We Trust Inc. T-shirt, I got so much hate. The shirt is essentially golden Jesus crucified on a cross wrapped up in dollars. There is a bar code above Jesus's head with the number 666 stamped onto it. I am going to buy a Kreator T-shirt, preferably the one with a dude with a pentagram on his head. We are Legion.

Ha! I'd probably be sent to the principals office if I wore something like that in Texas.

[Stronk Serb]

Ha! I'd probably be sent to the principals office if I wore something like that in Texas.

Haha, this week as a keeper of order in my class, I had to go to the Religious Indoctrination cabinet to get the class ledger. The teacher wouldn't let me in, so I had to climb four stories up and tell the civic education teacher that they refused to let me en. He saw my T-shirt, appologized for sending me, and sent someone else. He shouldn't appologize to me, the indoctrinator should for discriminating against me.

[Gamma Male]

Haha, this week as a keeper of order in my class, I had to go to the Religious Indoctrination cabinet to get the class ledger. The teacher wouldn't let me in, so I had to climb four stories up and tell the civic education teacher that they refused to let me en. He saw my T-shirt, appologized for sending me, and sent someone else. He shouldn't appologize to me, the indoctrinator should for discriminating against me.

That's nothing! One time I had a history teacher in 7th grade, and I asked her if there were ever any US presidents who weren't christian, and she replied "Obama". Seriously, I would kill for a European education system. -_-

[Vlerchan]

One time I had a history teacher in 7th grade, and I asked her if there were ever any US presidents who weren't christian, and she replied "Obama".

He's a Muslim fundamentalist, didn't you hear?

[Stronk Serb]

That's nothing! One time I had a history teacher in 7th grade, and I asked her if there were ever any US presidents who weren't christian, and she replied "Obama". Seriously, I would kill for a European education system. -_-

Isn't Obama an Aryan national-socialist with ideas of revival of the ancient religions?

[Gamma Male]

Isn't Obama an Aryan national-socialist with ideas of revival of the ancient religions?

Yup. And coincidentally enough he's also a communist, facist, totalitarian, and anarchist all at the same time apparently. Who'd of thunk it?

[Stronk Serb]

Yup. And coincidentally enough he's also a communist, facist, totalitarian, and anarchist all at the same time apparently. Who'd of thunk it?

Sooo let's call him Comrade Führer Obama.

[Gamma Male]

Sooo let's call him Comrade Führer Obama.

Or, how about instead we just call the people who mindlessly throw around every political label with a negative connotation they can think of, accurate or not, an idiot.

I'm a civil libertarian and a socialist, and I've been called everything you can think of. Facist, communist, nazi, anarchist.... none of it's even remotely accurate.

[Stronk Serb]

Or, how about instead we just call the people who mindlessly throw around every political label with a negative connotation they can think of, accurate or not, an idiot.

I'm a civil libertarian and a socialist, and I've been called everything you can think of. Facist, communist, nazi, anarchist.... none of it's even remotely accurate.


Kinda same here, except they didn't call me an anarchist, but I was called an Antichrist, satanist, cultist, necrophiliac... But yeah, they are uneducated idiots. Schools should remove religious indoctrination and add political education.

[Gamma Male]

Kinda same here, except they didn't call me an anarchist, but I was called an Antichrist, satanist, cultist, necrophiliac... But yeah, they are uneducated idiots. Schools should remove religious indoctrination and add political education.

Yeah, you know I've actually been sent to the principals office for wearing an "offensive" t-shirt and all it was was the word Fiction spelt using religious symbols. Like, the t was a crucifix, the c was an islamic moon thingy, the O was a karma symbol and stuff. But I see people walking round with Jesus t-shirts all the time. America is one of the few countries in the world whose constitution guarantees seperation of church and state, yet our government is still one of the most religious. It makes no sense.

I'm not sure if things will be the same when go back to school this August. Hopefully in High School teachers will except the students to be more politically active and thus act more lenient for shirts like that.

[Stronk Serb]

Yeah, you know I've actually been sent to the principals office for wearing an "offensive" t-shirt and all it was was the word Fiction spelt using religious symbols. Like, the t was a crucifix, the c was an islamic moon thingy, the O was a karma symbol and stuff. But I see people walking round with Jesus t-shirts all the time. America is one of the few countries in the world whose constitution guarantees seperation of church and state, yet our government is still one of the most religious. It makes no sense.

I'm not sure if things will be the same when go back to school this August. Hopefully in High School teachers will except the students to be more politically active and thus act more lenient for shirts like that.

I can't really argue with those idiots. My words enter their heads through one ear, but exit through the other. I like to joke with them based on what they said to me, for my own amusement. It is mostly guys who are doing that, girls are more mature, except one which hates me for no reason.

[Gamma Male]

I can't really argue with those idiots. My words enter their heads through one ear, but exit through the other. I like to joke with them based on what they said to me, for my own amusement. It is mostly guys who are doing that, girls are more mature, except one which hates me for no reason.

Yeah, it's like talking to a brick wall. A really, really annoying brick wall that keeps popping up in front of you.
Someone once said(i don't remember who) "Arguing with those who've denounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead."

As soon as someone brings up the bible in a debate, I'm just all like
http://files.sharenator.com/bitch_please_obama_1-s483x340-176358-580.jpg
It's because of them I'm actually leaning more toward anti-theism these days. A gay, socialist vegan who doesn't believe in God. Yup, I've got a lot to look forward to going back to school! :D lol

[Stronk Serb]

Yeah, it's like talking to a brick wall. A really, really annoying brick wall that keeps popping up in front of you.
Someone once said(i don't remember who) "Arguing with those who've denounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead."

As soon as someone brings up the bible in a debate, I'm just all like
image (http://files.sharenator.com/bitch_please_obama_1-s483x340-176358-580.jpg)
It's because of them I'm actually leaning more toward anti-theism these days. A gay, socialist vegan who doesn't believe in God. Yup, I've got a lot to look forward to going back to school! :D lol

I told people that I am the avatar of Dažbog, an ancient Slavic pagan god who was characterized as a great enemy of the Christian God. A leftist pro-gay rights pagan-atheist (in my eyes more a tradition), kind of anti-theist because of those idiots. I am a metalhead too (:metal:). Everything except turbofolk music is frowned upon here by the idiotic majority. Luckily I have some friends.

[Gamma Male]

I told people that I am the avatar of Dažbog, an ancient Slavic pagan god who was characterized as a great enemy of the Christian God. A leftist pro-gay rights pagan-atheist (in my eyes more a tradition), kind of anti-theist because of those idiots. I am a metalhead too (:metal:). Everything except turbofolk music is frowned upon here by the idiotic majority. Luckily I have some friends.

Wow. I actually just went onto youtube and listened to turbofolk music. It was like getting raped in the ears with a rusty pipe. All it was was some crappy synthesized drum beat and a woman singing the same things over and over in an aggressive tone. Seriously, it could've been on a 5 second loop and I wouldn't have noticed.

[Stronk Serb]

Wow. I actually just went onto youtube and listened to turbofolk music. It was like getting raped in the ears with a rusty pipe. All it was was some crappy synthesized drum beat and a woman singing the same things over and over in an aggressive tone. Seriously, it could've been on a 5 second loop and I wouldn't have noticed.

Arabic music on meth, LSD, shrooms, crack, crocodile and heroin essentially. I have nothing against Arabic music, but turbofolk is like drugging it with aforementioned drugs. When the neighbours turn it on loud, I have to blast Kreator on maximum bass and volume to make them stop.

[TheKingIam]

There's a reason why atheists tend to know more about religion than the religious
and why they tend to always be more intelligent than the religious

[tovaris]

There's a reason why atheists tend to know more about religion than the religious
and why they tend to always be more intelligent than the religious

the same goes for thw other way,
a reasin being for the fact the rwligious dont know nada about tzeir religion and them being khm not smart

like the famous song goes „dok ima ovača nele falit vune” (as long as there are enouth sheem there will be enouth wool)

[Bleid]

There's a reason why atheists tend to know more about religion than the religious
and why they tend to always be more intelligent than the religious

What's this reason?

[TheKingIam]

What's this reason?

that they're right

[Bleid]

that they're right

That's not a reason - that's a claim.

The reason would be why they are right.

Care to explain for me?

[TheKingIam]

That's not a reason - that's a claim.

The reason would be why they are right.

Care to explain for me?

because they are right that there is no god because evidence points towards that fact

[Bleid]

because they are right that there is no god because evidence points towards that fact

And would you be able to provide me an example of such evidence?

Only one example will do, but feel free to give as many as you can.

[Jack russell dad]

God is real, but the movies do make people that don't believe bad, and the movies are wrong

[tovaris]

And would you be able to provide me an example of such evidence?

Only one example will do, but feel free to give as many as you can.

it is ferly easy to disprove the existence of a god described in the holy books of Tora, Bible and Koran experameltely. While unfortunately we cannot disprove the existence of a diety with our curent state of development.

[Lovelife090994]

it is ferly easy to disprove the existence of a god described in the holy books of Tora, Bible and Koran experameltely. While unfortunately we cannot disprove the existence of a diety with our curent state of development.

You can't disprove God no more than I can disprove a god. Being atheist makes no one more or less intelligent than the believer.

[Lovelife090994]

that they're right

In what way does being atheist make one more right than the billions who are not atheist?

[tovaris]

You can't disprove God no more than I can disprove a god. Being atheist makes no one more or less intelligent than the believer.

i can disprove the God as described in the bible experimentaly...
In the bible it sais if you masterbute you will be killed by god, tried it and am stil alive
in the bible it sais if you are a holy man bothered by children call upon god to send two female beard to kill them, havent tried but am positive it wont work
in the bible it sais call upon god and he shal answer, no answer
in the bible it sais call upon yourself the emediate danmation and you shal be smighted, im stil here and i have tried it in public a
sai g the words out lowd am still alive

so you see a God as described in the bible does not exist

[Lovelife090994]

i can disprove the God as described in the bible experimentaly...
In the bible it sais if you masterbute you will be killed by god, tried it and am stil alive
in the bible it sais if you are a holy man bothered by children call upon god to send two female beard to kill them, havent tried but am positive it wont work
in the bible it sais call upon god and he shal answer, no answer
in the bible it sais call upon yourself the emediate danmation and you shal be smighted, im stil here and i have tried it in public a
sai g the words out lowd am still alive

so you see a God as described in the bible does not exist

The Bible also says that let he who has not sinned cast the first stone. The Bible is not perfect due to all the mistranslations. Masturbation back in the days of Ancient Judea was seen as a sin since sexual discharge is unclean and Jews regular bathe to clean the body of such impurity. Also since male masturbation eliminates semen it is seen as a waste since in Judea they needed to work towards a family and a greater Israel.

Call upon His name and he will answer. But first you must be willing to listen and accept him. Come to God with an open heart, he does not dwell in a heart that hates him. The song God Help the Outcasts shows this well for a movie since the girl singing to God came to him in need and was sincere. That is how God will hear you.

The God in the Bible exists to billions. You cannot eradicate us from the planet to not make it so. Your typos make a little difficult to read that last part. Your words are a bit everywhere actually.

You do not curse God and then ask him to come to you only to curse him again, he does not dwell in that. God is a being of love, compassion, and mercy. He will help anyone but only a few can truly hear him. I hear him everyday. You just have to be able to discern his voice. You can feel him as well, but you must be willing and able to know it is God. Sometimes things with God are a mystery although his ways are mysterious to man.

Also, there is a reason why we have a New Testament. The Old testament involves the old ways of thinking and the ways of the Israelites, the New Testament came after Jesus. We as Christians look to both old and new but live in peace and are not to harm someone for beliefs. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone put an end to that since no one is perfect.

[tovaris]

The Bible also says that let he who has not sinned cast the first stone. The Bible is not perfect due to all the mistranslations. Masturbation back in the days of Ancient Judea was seen as a sin since sexual discharge is unclean and Jews regular bathe to clean the body of such impurity. Also since male masturbation eliminates semen it is seen as a waste since in Judea they needed to work towards a family and a greater Israel.

Call upon His name and he will answer. But first you must be willing to listen and accept him. Come to God with an open heart, he does not dwell in a heart that hates him. The song God Help the Outcasts shows this well for a movie since the girl singing to God came to him in need and was sincere. That is how God will hear you.

The God in the Bible exists to billions. You cannot eradicate us from the planet to not make it so. Your typos make a little difficult to read that last part. Your words are a bit everywhere actually.

You do not curse God and then ask him to come to you only to curse him again, he does not dwell in that. God is a being of love, compassion, and mercy. He will help anyone but only a few can truly hear him. I hear him everyday. You just have to be able to discern his voice. You can feel him as well, but you must be willing and able to know it is God. Sometimes things with God are a mystery although his ways are mysterious to man.

Also, there is a reason why we have a New Testament. The Old testament involves the old ways of thinking and the ways of the Israelites, the New Testament came after Jesus. We as Christians look to both old and new but live in peace and are not to harm someone for beliefs. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone put an end to that since no one is perfect.

i give you experimental prof of the nonexistence of the being described i the bible and you write it off as „some old jew wrote that” guess what some old jews wrote everething in the blody bible.. So if that is a ly om my GOD what else might be...!!!

I mnot radecating anything accept the biblkcal god, who likes to kill little unbelieving kids.
Second book of kings, Elia: bla bla preaching kn a vilage than leaving, 42 kids folow him and make fun of him than he calls upon god and he sends two female beard to kill the children.
Desnt seem like a being of love to me...

Look dude you believe anything yoj want its your blody delusion, im just saing the bible portraies a diety i can exoerimentaly disprove.

[Bleid]

i can disprove the God as described in the bible experimentaly...
In the bible it sais if you masterbute you will be killed by god, tried it and am stil alive

Expected you would go to a particular, arbitrary God, instead of the actual one.

However, you should notice that just because someone writes of something in a book, this would have no real bearing on that something.

in the bible it sais if you are a holy man bothered by children call upon god to send two female beard to kill them, havent tried but am positive it wont work

Female beard?

iin the bible it sais call upon god and he shal answer, no answer

To your knowledge.

iin the bible it sais call upon yourself the emediate danmation and you shal be smighted, im stil here and i have tried it in public a
sai g the words out lowd am still alive

Similarly to #1.

iso you see a God as described in the bible does not exist

That was the furthest thing from demonstrable evidence.

[Lovelife090994]

i give you experimental prof of the nonexistence of the being described i the bible and you write it off as „some old jew wrote that” guess what some old jews wrote everething in the blody bible.. So if that is a ly om my GOD what else might be...!!!

I mnot radecating anything accept the biblkcal god, who likes to kill little unbelieving kids.
Second book of kings, Elia: bla bla preaching kn a vilage than leaving, 42 kids folow him and make fun of him than he calls upon god and he sends two female beard to kill the children.
Desnt seem like a being of love to me...

Look dude you believe anything yoj want its your blody delusion, im just saing the bible portraies a diety i can exoerimentaly disprove.

Jews did write the Bible as well as many Christians. That is no write-off my friend. You are radicalizing. God does not kill children he said "let the children come unto me" We are precious in his eyes.

When you actually decide to speak proper English and quote an actual Bible then we'll talk. Oh, and I'm pretty versed in Israelite history, Judean history, and theology. I am no expert, but you can at least put some effort in your claims and so called "demonstrations."

[Miserabilia]

Jews did write the Bible as well as many Christians. That is no write-off my friend. You are radicalizing. God does not kill children he said "let the children come unto me" We are precious in his eyes.

When you actually decide to speak proper English and quote an actual Bible then we'll talk. Oh, and I'm pretty versed in Israelite history, Judean history, and theology. I am no expert, but you can at least put some effort in your claims and so called "demonstrations."

Dude don't be a d*ck, he's trying his best to write "proper english", and if he makes a mistake it's very difficult for him to notice.
Ánd yes, god did kill those children,
maybe read your own holy book?

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

[TheKingIam]

In what way does being atheist make one more right than the billions who are not atheist?

That's not a valid argument, just because billions are severely scarred and brainwashed from very early childhood does not mean they are right

[TheKingIam]

And would you be able to provide me an example of such evidence?

Only one example will do, but feel free to give as many as you can.

The evidence is the lack of evidence
and the overwhelming evidence for evolution and that the Earth is older than 5000 years...

[Lovelife090994]

The evidence is the lack of evidence
and the overwhelming evidence for evolution and that the Earth is older than 5000 years...

That doesn't make atheists right either since many Christians believe in evolution be it ordained by God or Nature. Who said the Earth is 5000 years old? The Bible gives no numerical date and the age of the Earth is something we'll never have right down to the day. The Bible has some gaps in time and so who knows the Earth's age. What makes you so right and a Christian so wrong?

That's not a valid argument, just because billions are severely scarred and brainwashed from very early childhood does not mean they are right

Ugh, watch your tone. We are not brainwashed and you have no right to spit bile like that. Where is your humanity? Insults don't make you correct, just heartless. Are only Christians brainless in your eyes? That's okay, we'll pray for you.

Dude don't be a d*ck, he's trying his best to write "proper english", and if he makes a mistake it's very difficult for him to notice.
Ánd yes, god did kill those children,
maybe read your own holy book

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

You have this misguarded view that God, The God of the Christians is a killer. He is not.
He is a being of love despite all who literally hate him. You want to know love? You seeing another day because some won't see tomorrow. You can be antitheist but do you have to be anti-human? Christians are people too, we have flaws, emotions, and lives.

[TheKingIam]

That doesn't make atheists right either since many Christians believe in evolution be it ordained by God or Nature. Who said the Earth is 5000 years old? The Bible gives no numerical date and the age of the Earth is something we'll never have right down to the day. The Bible has some gaps in time and so who knows the Earth's age. What makes you so right and a Christian so wrong?



.

So you believe in Adam and Eve and the talking snake?
listen you can't make sense out of nonsense no matter how bad you try or how elegantly you put it

[Lovelife090994]

So you believe in Adam and Eve and the talking snake?
listen you can't make sense out of nonsense no matter how bad you try or how elegantly you put it

What of others? My beliefs are weird to you? Fine. I have met many whose beliefs I find strange BUT I never questioned them. So what if I do believe in Adam and Eve? I look at it as a warning and story to learn from. Satan talks with a silver tongue and his voice is temping in an unexpecting way. What you call nonsense some call faith. What of others who worship near countless gods? I may only believe in one but even they should keep their faith unquestioned. To be honest your views are probably from the Nihilism gou follow. Not conforming to rules and laws or social norms, failing to grasp sin from virtue. That works for some but not others. Like me, I am no nihilist and I believe we need guidance. You being nihilist is fine, but just as Christianity doesn't work or align with everyone so too doesn't Nihilism. If I believe in this, so be it. If she believes in that so be it.

[TheKingIam]

What of others? My beliefs are weird to you? Fine. I have met many whose beliefs I find strange BUT I never questioned them. So what if I do believe in Adam and Eve? I look at it as a warning and story to learn from. Satan talks with a silver tongue and his voice is temping in an unexpecting way. What you call nonsense some call faith. What of others who worship near countless gods? I may only believe in one but even they should keep their faith unquestioned. To be honest your views are probably from the Nihilism gou follow. Not conforming to rules and laws or social norms, failing to grasp sin from virtue. That works for some but not others. Like me, I am no nihilist and I believe we need guidance. You being nihilist is fine, but just as Christianity doesn't work or align with everyone so too doesn't Nihilism. If I believe in this, so be it. If she believes in that so be it.

You've been brainwashed well, it's so sad
I bet your parents are very proud

[Lovelife090994]

You've been brainwashed well, it's so sad
I bet your parents are very proud

My parents are proud I'm alive and accept people unlike you who insults those of faith and writes off their words. Do you honestly think all religious are brainwashed? Haha, you are foolish aren't you? Calling me brainwashed doesn't make it so. Do you think I was forced to believe what I do? I may have been raised in a Christian home under my minister mother but I chose to be with God and be nondenominational. No one can really force you to true faith. Faith isn't forced, it's sincere. You would know that if you had any wisdom.

[TheKingIam]

My parents are proud I'm alive and accept people unlike you who insults those of faith and writes off their words. Do you honestly think all religious are brainwashed? Haha, you are foolish aren't you? Calling me brainwashed doesn't make it so. Do you think I was forced to believe what I do? I may have been raised in a Christian home under my minister mother but I chose to be with God and be nondenominational. No one can really force you to true faith. Faith isn't forced, it's sincere. You would know that if had any wisdom.

How dare you say I insult those who have "faith", if anything I feel sorry for them
So your telling me you haven't been brainwashed? so if you were born and raised in Saudi Arabia you wouldn't be saying "Allahu akbar" but "praise jesus"
get real

[Lovelife090994]

How dare you say I insult those who have "faith", if anything I feel sorry for them
So your telling me you haven't been brainwashed? so if you were born and raised in Saudi Arabia you wouldn't be saying "Allahu akbar" but "praise jesus"
get real

No, you get real and open your eyes. I am not in Saudi Arabia and even if I moved there I would stand by my beliefs. And you just insulted believers when you called us brainwashed. And don't feel sorry. It's Christians who weep for the rest of the world hoping and praying that we will all stop the fighting and unite for once. I feel sorry for you.

[TheKingIam]

No, you get real and open your eyes.

lol

I am not in Saudi Arabia and even if I moved there I would stand by my beliefs.

But if you were raised there by 2 musim parents, you would be muslim
if you were raised in India a Hindu
and so on


And you just insulted believers when you called us brainwashed.

It's not an insult it's just a fact

And don't feel sorry. It's Christians who weep for the rest of the world hoping and praying that we will all stop the fighting and unite for once. I feel sorry for you.

good for you

[tovaris]

However, you should notice that just because someone writes of something in a book, this would have no real bearing on that something.

.

so you are saing that the entire book is a oie and that the religion based upon it is based on lies?



Female beard?



bears




That was the furthest thing from demonstrable evidence.

what more than experimental proof do you need? The bible is wonderfull for it described God in such a detail and makes this biblical god so easi to disprove.

[Lovelife090994]

lol



But if you were raised there by 2 musim parents, you would be muslim
if you were raised in India a Hindu
and so on




It's not an insult it's just a fact



good for you

And what if I was raised Muslim? Would you have a problem with that too? Saying a religious person is brainwashed is an insult because that is not true. You really need to learn that we all think differently. Some have faith, some don't. Deal with that for a moment.

[TheKingIam]

And what if I was raised Muslim? Would you have a problem with that too?

I have a problem with babies around the world being scarred with hell and sin


Saying a religious person is brainwashed is an insult because that is not true.

It is true


You really need to learn that we all think differently. Some have faith, some don't. Deal with that for a moment.

This is just a bullsh*t cope out, if your going to quote me back at least make it worthwhile please!

[Lovelife090994]

I have a problem with babies around the world being scarred with hell and sin




It is true




This is just a bullsh*t cope out, if your going to quote me back at least make it worthwhile please!

Newsflash, you don't reply to someone, have them reply back, and then call it a cop out. Be respectful. Religious people are not brainwashed unless brought up in either !L a cult which is not a religion, or B) by terrorists which is also not a religion and doesn't speak for the religion i.e. Islam. Lastly, we are not scared or scarred as you say. Open your eyes and stop calling those with faith brainwashed. You sound churlish saying "it's true, it's true."

[TheKingIam]

Newsflash, you don't reply to someone, have them reply back, and then call it a cop out.

more cope out...


Be respectful. Religious people are not brainwashed unless brought up in either !L a cult which is not a religion, or B) by terrorists which is also not a religion and doesn't speak for the religion i.e. Islam.

haha you don't make the rules here, brainwashing is simple
and billions of children in the world are brainwashed with religion, and scarred with hell and sin
to go as low to believe in a talking snake

Lastly, we are not scared or scarred as you say. Open your eyes and stop calling those with faith brainwashed. You sound churlish saying "it's true, it's true."

you are scarred... there are things you wouldn't do only because of the fear of going to hell

Listen, if your just going to cope out again then don't reply
but I know you will so if it's just more b.s like this I won't quote you back, simple
at least try to make sense

[Lovelife090994]

more cope out...

haha you don't make the rules here, brainwashing is simple
and billions of children in the world are brainwashed with religion, and scarred with hell and sin
to go as low to believe in a talking snake

you are scarred... there are things you wouldn't do only because of the fear of going to hell
Listen, if your just going to cope out again then don't reply
but I know you will so if it's just more b.s like this I won't quote you back, simple
at least try to make sense



Try again sweetie. I am praying for you, you'll be fine one day. You are confused and may have been hurt so you resent others who are different from you. No, you don't make the rules here. Just because a couple is religious that does not mean they should be barred from having kids. If a family is religious let them be. A talking snake is what you are starting to look like. You don't know me. You can't say I'm scared. I'm worried. About you... because you lack reason. I will reply if I see fit. And you being silent doesn't make you right. You know I'm right. Not all who have a religion are brainwashed. Techinically you'd be brainwashing to teach people there are no gods since not everyone is atheist.

[tovaris]

That doesn't make atheists right either since many Christians believe in evolution be it ordained by God or Nature. Who said the Earth is 5000 years old? The Bible gives no numerical date and the age of the Earth is something we'll never have right down to the day. The Bible has some gaps in time and so who knows the Earth's age. What makes you so right and a Christian so wrong?


In the bible there is mentioned the death I Nebuchadnezzar, if you ad up all the generations of profits until then you can get a numerical date, one guy actually did that and came up with the number of 4004 b. c. (a Saturday in august at 9 in the morning.

[Lovelife090994]

In the bible there is mentioned the death I Nebuchadnezzar, if you ad up all the generations of profits until then you can get a numerical date, one guy actually did that and came up with the number of 4004 b. c. (a Saturday in august at 9 in the morning.

That's assuming the dates and years are consistant. Christians today are not taught that the Earth is 5-6000 years old because the age of Earth isn't mentioned. All Abrahamic religions have these men and they don't place an age on Earth either. And where did you get that date and day? Our days are based on the Norse Gods, back then they did not use this calender.

[tovaris]

That's assuming the dates and years are consistant. Christians today are not taught that the Earth is 5-6000 years old because the age of Earth isn't mentioned. All Abrahamic religions have these men and they don't place an age on Earth either. And where did you get that date and day? Our days are based on the Norse Gods, back then they did not use this calender.

Jews count their years not from some profit but from begining of time you know...
I dont know hoe he got the date and time, maybe he asked god..

[Lovelife090994]

Jews count their years not from some profit but from begining of time you know...
I dont know hoe he got the date and time, maybe he asked god..

Christians get the date of the Earth from existence but we have no date. Now, sont be facetious. What are you really mad about? Our beliefs or our ideas versus yours? Is this about your experiences?

[tovaris]

Christians get the date of the Earth from existence but we have no date. Now, sont be facetious. What are you really mad about? Our beliefs or our ideas versus yours? Is this about your experiences?

Let me tell you a little secret, I'm ofitial a catholic, and will be one for two more months until I turn 18. Than arivaderchy weird cult.



Jews did write the Bible as well as many Christians. That is no write-off my friend. You are radicalizing. God does not kill children he said "let the children come unto me" We are precious in his eyes.



2 Kings 2.24-25

When he turned round and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two she-bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. From there he went on to Mount Carmel, and then returned to Samaria.



When you actually decide to speak proper English and quote an actual Bible then we'll talk. Oh, and I'm pretty versed in Israelite history, Judean history, and theology. I am no expert, but you can at least put some effort in your claims and so called "demonstrations."



Unlike the bible you could read my signature:

If you find any spelling mistakes or typographical errors in my posts please report them to me immediately so that I can correct them.

[Gamma Male]

Christians get the date of the Earth from existence but we have no date. Now, sont be facetious. What are you really mad about? Our beliefs or our ideas versus yours? Is this about your experiences?

The Earth is approximately 4.54 billion years old. This is a scientific fact supported by decades of research.

[Lovelife090994]

The Earth is approximately 4.54 billion years old. This is a scientific fact supported by decades of research.

I don't refute that but even science has it's flaws. Many Christians believe the Earth is older than even that. We know the Earth is way older than 6000 years old. Being Christian is to follow, accept, and love the Lord, also to better yourself and live life Jesus-like. Sadly a lot of Christians don't do that but even they aren't being true. And even science has it's flaws. Just because something is scientist flaws that doesn't mean religious ideas should be ridiculed.

Let me tell you a little secret, I'm ofitial a catholic, and will be one for two more months until I turn 18. Than arivaderchy weird cult.



2 Kings 2.24-25

When he turned round and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two she-bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. From there he went on to Mount Carmel, and then returned to Samaria.



Unlike the bible you could read my signature:

If you find any spelling mistakes or typographical errors in my posts please report them to me immediately so that I can correct them.

I can't deny what's in the Bible and won't. But I must impress how one bad act doesn't support the idea that the god or God in this case is hateful. Read John 3:16.

[tovaris]

I don't refute that but even science has it's flaws. Many Christians believe the Earth is older than even that. We know the Earth is way older than 6000 years old. Being Christian is to follow, accept, and love the Lord, also to better yourself and live life Jesus-like. Sadly a lot of Christians don't do that but even they aren't being true. And even science has it's flaws. Just because something is scientist flaws that doesn't mean religious ideas should be ridiculed.



I can't deny what's in the Bible and won't. But I must impress how one bad act doesn't support the idea that the god or God in this case is hateful. Read John 3:16.

So what you are saying is that he came down to earth knocked up a Jewish virgin and than let his son die a horrible death...

[Lovelife090994]

So what you are saying is that he came down to earth knocked up a Jewish virgin and than let his son die a horrible death...

Of course not. Man was on a collision course to Hell. God was someone who the Jews only had to themselves but God wanted his word to spread and he needed a person to redeem man's sins. He chose Mary, a woman from nowhere to birth the greeatest gift to the world. Jesus was betrayed by Judas and denied by Peter, he was even wronged by the Jews and killed by the Romans. Do you think God wanted his spiritual son to die? In crucifiction no less! Mary and Mary Magdelene were strong and true to stay with Jesus till the end. He died for our sins, he loves us, and those who come to him shall not die but will have everlasting life and love. Don't you see? God gave man a chance to be with him. Because of Jesus and his disciples especially Mary Magdelene for telling us that Jesus was back, because of her and him and all who preach Christianity has flourished and God can finally be with his children.

[tovaris]

Of course not. Man was on a collision course to Hell. God was someone who the Jews only had to themselves but God wanted his word to spread and he needed a person to redeem man's sins. He chose Mary, a woman from nowhere to birth the greeatest gift to the world. Jesus was betrayed by Judas and denied by Peter, he was even wronged by the Jews and killed by the Romans. Do you think God wanted his spiritual son to die? In crucifiction no less! Mary and Mary Magdelene were strong and true to stay with Jesus till the end. He died for our sins, he loves us, and those who come to him shall not die but will have everlasting life and love. Don't you see? God gave man a chance to be with him. Because of Jesus and his disciples especially Mary Magdelene for telling us that Jesus was back, because of her and him and all who preach Christianity has flourished and God can finally be with his children.

yeah because thats what is said in the bible...

what if i tild you that i killed god myself?

[Lovelife090994]

yeah because thats what is said in the bible...

what if i tild you that i killed god myself?

I'd say you are wrong, God can't be killed, and that he and I will forgive you.

[Miserabilia]

You have this misguarded view that God, The God of the Christians is a killer. He is not.
He is a being of love despite all who literally hate him. You want to know love? You seeing another day because some won't see tomorrow. You can be antitheist but do you have to be anti-human? Christians are people too, we have flaws, emotions, and lives.

I have this "misguarded view" that the god of the christians is a killer BECAUSE YOUR BOOK REPEATEDLY IMPLIES It.

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)



Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)

The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)

Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

[tovaris]

I'd say you are wrong, God can't be killed, and that he and I will forgive you.

how do you know he cannot be kiled? I kiled him (also her for it is both) myself! Prove me wrong!

[Bleid]

The evidence is the lack of evidence

This is fallacious reasoning known as Argument from Ignorance.

Cannot argue validly that lack of evidence for something is evidence against it.

and the overwhelming evidence for evolution and that the Earth is older than 5000 years...

That's not evidence against a God, that's evidence for.. well,

evidence for evolution and that the Earth is older than 5000 years...

_______________________________________

so you are saing that the entire book is a oie and that the religion based upon it is based on lies?

No - I am saying, however, that we shouldn't trust someone who merely writes about something when it comes to determining if that something actually exists.

what more than experimental proof do you need? The bible is wonderfull for it described God in such a detail and makes this biblical god so easi to disprove.

Not necessarily, as, we are not aware of the actuality of the situation, as said just above. We're only aware of what some people had written.

[Horatio Nelson]

This seems to have gone from religious movies to God's credibility.

Kind of a petty argument if you ask me.

[tovaris]

No - I am saying, however, that we shouldn't trust someone who merely writes about something when it comes to determining if that something actually exists.



Not necessarily, as, we are not aware of the actuality of the situation, as said just above. We're only aware of what some people had written.



so basicly what you said is do not read the book the religion is BASED UPON just go with your gut... if your gona propagate a religion with some book than at leest be consistant!
actualety of the situation? WTF is that? look YOUR book sais it is so and you believe therefore i have proved what i have said... do not try to disgard fackts because you dont like them

and also keep in mind that i have killed GOD nd therefore he eint alive any more

[Bleid]

so basicly what you said is do not read the book the religion is BASED UPON just go with your gut... if your gona propagate a religion with some book than at leest be consistant!

Basically what I said is what I wrote. Being that, the existence of a deity has nothing to do with a book.

actualety of the situation? WTF is that? look YOUR book sais it is so and you believe therefore i have proved what i have said... do not try to disgard fackts because you dont like them

The actuality of the situation is what is actually happening rather than what someone writing a book might say is happening. They may or may not overlap.

Furthermore, you irrationally assume I'm religious - I'm not. I didn't say even once in my comments that I followed the Bible, nor any other scripture.

and also keep in mind that i have killed GOD nd therefore he eint alive any more

I had no idea. Can't argue with that.

[Lovelife090994]

I have this "misguarded view" that the god of the christians is a killer BECAUSE YOUR BOOK REPEATEDLY IMPLIES It.

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)



Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)

The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)

Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

You do realize the story of Exodus correct? Learn the whole story. You do not mess with God's chosen and the Egyptians enslaved them for years. The Israelites prayed and God smited those who did them wrong. God does have judgement after the while when his children are being continually mistreated.
Have you heard of that at all? You reap what you sow. If you treat others bad then you will have bad things to you.

Now to the stories of the Bible that tell of killing, the killing was done in ancient times. The Bible is old, remember that. Many rules in the Bible are either for the Israelites to distance themselves from foreign ways or to enforce proper practice for the ancient world. You don't have to like the Bible but you have to respect people's beliefs. If you are going to quote the Bible then do it the honor by quoting it correctly. You must first read the Bible and know it's stories. A lot of the stories in the Bible are brutal but notice Christians aren't going around killing people because of it.

Also, the true message of God is not in violence. This is why the Bible has two testaments. We look to Old and New but we live peacefully because we are supposed to be Christ-like. Remember the Bible is a history book of the ages. No one can deny the history because it is not just Christian history, it's Jewish history, ancient history, Roman happenings, tales of Corinth, the woman Esther, the story of the Plagues of Egypt, ways of life, lifestyles, Proverbs, Psalms (Songs and Poetry), inspiration, and so much more. Have you ever read of Psalms? Those poems are how we are to be. Psalms 23 the Lord is my shepherd I shall not want. He maketh me like down in green pastures The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:


he leadeth me beside the still waters. Rev. 7.17


3 He restoreth my soul:


he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.


4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,


I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.


5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies:


thou anointest my head with oil;
my cup runneth over.


6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life:
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. That is how we are to be, in peace, and with him. He makes it possible for us to overcome. If you focus on the war stories and tales of those who has died or were killed then you will get the wrong idea because one act doesn't say the whole religion's structure. We as Christians look to better ourselves and we live by Him to be with Him. I pray you'll see this, because to have these anti ideas that are more to other's personal beliefs than the belief are atrocious. Debate, have conversation, but never jab at one's personal beliefs since that is at their core. Care to hear more or are you just going to be facetious?

how do you know he cannot be kiled? I kiled him (also her for it is both) myself! Prove me wrong!

God cannot be killed by a mere mortal. You faith may be dead but he is not. You don't kill God he is not a statue you can break nor an entity you can trap. Also, if you killed God then why are still alive? He gave you life. If you are going to mock him to at least say something plausible.

[tovaris]

I had no idea. Can't argue with that.

see god is dead, the end



God cannot be killed by a mere mortal. You faith may be dead but he is not. You don't kill God he is not a statue you can break nor an entity you can trap. Also, if you killed God then why are still alive? He gave you life. If you are going to mock him to at least say something plausible.



how do you know that? God can be killed because i say so! He is as dead as they get... It was wery simple realy... i looked around found the gates to hevan went there and took an axe to his head. Now he/she is dead.

[Bleid]

see god is dead, the end

Are you sure you killed the right one?

[tovaris]

Are you sure you killed the right one?

im prety sure,

i wont kill Perun (old slavan god) i like that one

[Bleid]

im prety sure,

i wont kill Perun (old slavan god) i like that one

And where can we go to see the body of the slain God?

[Miserabilia]

You do realize the story of Exodus correct? Learn the whole story. You do not mess with God's chosen and the Egyptians enslaved them for years. The Israelites prayed and God smited those who did them wrong. God does have judgement after the while when his children are being continually mistreated.
Have you heard of that at all? You reap what you sow. If you treat others bad then you will have bad things to you.

Now to the stories of the Bible that tell of killing, the killing was done in ancient times. The Bible is old, remember that. Many rules in the Bible are either for the Israelites to distance themselves from foreign ways or to enforce proper practice for the ancient world. You don't have to like the Bible but you have to respect people's beliefs. If you are going to quote the Bible then do it the honor by quoting it correctly. You must first read the Bible and know it's stories. A lot of the stories in the Bible are brutal but notice Christians aren't going around killing people because of it.

Also, the true message of God is not in violence. This is why the Bible has two testaments. We look to Old and New but we live peacefully because we are supposed to be Christ-like. Remember the Bible is a history book of the ages. No one can deny the history because it is not just Christian history, it's Jewish history, ancient history, Roman happenings, tales of Corinth, the woman Esther, the story of the Plagues of Egypt, ways of life, lifestyles, Proverbs, Psalms (Songs and Poetry), inspiration, and so much more. Have you ever read of Psalms? Those poems are how we are to be. Psalms 23 the Lord is my shepherd I shall not want. He maketh me like down in green pastures The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

...christian biblical stuff...

6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life:
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. That is how we are to be, in peace, and with him. He makes it possible for us to overcome. If you focus on the war stories and tales of those who has died or were killed then you will get the wrong idea because one act doesn't say the whole religion's structure. We as Christians look to better ourselves and we live by Him to be with Him. I pray you'll see this, because to have these anti ideas that are more to other's personal beliefs than the belief are atrocious. Debate, have conversation, but never jab at one's personal beliefs since that is at their core. Care to hear more or are you just going to be facetious?


ou do realize the story of Exodus correct? Learn the whole story. You do not mess with God's chosen and the Egyptians enslaved them for years. The Israelites prayed and God smited those who did them wrong. God does have judgement after the while when his children are being continually mistreated.
Have you heard of that at all? You reap what you sow. If you treat others bad then you will have bad things to you.

What so those kids deserved to get eaten by bears because they called someone a name?
That's not justice, it's brutal murder.
The god of the bible is an a*hole.

Now to the stories of the Bible that tell of killing, the killing was done in ancient times. The Bible is old, remember that. Many rules in the Bible are either for the Israelites to distance themselves from foreign ways or to enforce proper practice for the ancient world. You don't have to like the Bible but you have to respect people's beliefs. If you are going to quote the Bible then do it the honor by quoting it correctly. You must first read the Bible and know it's stories. A lot of the stories in the Bible are brutal but notice Christians aren't going around killing people because of it.


Lol , I read the entire bible several times, no need to preach me on bible quotes.
I'm not talking about ancient punishments.
I'm talking about your biblical description of god.
These must be true, beacuse your god is unchanging, as said in the bible.
Your god is an awful god.

Debate, have conversation, but never jab at one's personal beliefs since that is at their core. Care to hear more or are you just going to be facetious?

Protip; if you are offended by my "jabs", don't drag your beleifs in a public debate forum.
Sorry, I'm not going to sugarcoat anything,
your bible clearly tells tales of a horrendous god that punishes and kills.

[tovaris]

And where can we go to see the body of the slain God?

after i killed him/her the wind blew him away like dust

[Bleid]

after i killed him/her the wind blew him away like dust

Convenient.

[Lovelife090994]

What so those kids deserved to get eaten by bears because they called someone a name?
That's not justice, it's brutal murder.
The god of the bible is an a*hole.



Lol , I read the entire bible several times, no need to preach me on bible quotes.
I'm not talking about ancient punishments.
I'm talking about your biblical description of god.
These must be true, beacuse your god is unchanging, as said in the bible.
Your god is an awful god.



Protip; if you are offended by my "jabs", don't drag your beleifs in a public debate forum.
Sorry, I'm not going to sugarcoat anything,
your bible clearly tells tales of a horrendous god that punishes and kills.

You are so blind. Of course no one deserved to die but they were punished for their actions and words as we all will if we don't repent and see our errors. Say what you want but God has the last laugh. If you died today and saw God what would you say then? God is not horrendous, but you are in your thinking. You blame Christians and insult our faith and think it proper since you are an atheist. Being atheist is one thing and being rude, accusative, and insulting are other things. Oh God is unchanging but those negative acts were not out of him. You do realize how the Old Testament involves a totally different era and people right? The Jews have that one since the Old Testament is rooted from the Jewish Torah. But even that is another Holy Book but still under the same God of Isaac, Abraham, and many other great men, women, children, kings, and queens. You really are blind. You don't even know how Christianity is supposed to be. it's love, the past may have been misguided but we live to learn from our mistakes and replace them with peace. We seek to bring love. And you are an awful person to say God is an awful god, you won't be able to run from that. Now, I am praying for you I really am because you sound too much like the Pharisees and Lucifer for your own good. I rebuke every evil in your body and ask God to rip it out. You are a vessel for which evil shouldn't be residing. You can know the Bible word for word and never get it or live by it. Lucifer knows The Word too but he doesn't live by it either and also hates all of humanity especially the Jews and Christians because unlike him we are chosen and can be in Heaven with The King. Have a happy and blessed day. I should thank you. You gave me another soul to pray for; yours. Your hatred and discontent must have a root somewhere and it is not Earthly nor human.

after i killed him/her the wind blew him away like dust

From dust to dust, alpha and omega, dust coalesces, good luck in life trying to kill off faith. It won't work. God is with you now waiting on you to hear him.

[tovaris]

From dust to dust, alpha and omega, dust coalesces, good luck in life trying to kill off faith. It won't work. God is with you now waiting on you to hear him

.

he is dust and to dust he/she returned.

How can he/she be here if i have killed him? An axe to the head as i said and it dropped dead...

[Lovelife090994]

he is dust and to dust he/she returned.

How can he/she be here if i have killed him? An axe to the head as i said and it dropped dead...

Your words are empty. God can't die, he cannot be beat. God is eternal. Why say a lie that you killed him? You are sounding like a monster.

[Stronk Serb]

Your words are empty. God can't die, he cannot be beat. God is eternal. Why say a lie that you killed him? You are sounding like a monster.

That's what the Bible is essentially. It forces you to acknowledge it and it's self-contradictories just like maticek is forcing you to acknowledge his. But I still think maticek is an avatar of Dažbog who put an end to the Christian god.

[Gamma Male]

Your words are empty. God can't die, he cannot be beat. God is eternal. Why say a lie that you killed him? You are sounding like a monster.

I believe he is trying to make a point. He's saying that the claim that he killed God holds just as much merit as all of the claims you make about God. Just like how you can't prove the God of the bible exists, yhe also can't prove that he killed God. They're both empty, baseless claims.

[Lovelife090994]

I believe he is trying to make a point. He's saying that the claim that he killed God holds just as much merit as all of the claims you make about God. Just like how you can't prove the God of the bible exists, yhe also can't prove that he killed God. They're both empty, baseless claims.

Faith is not baseless. If I say I believe in God and that he is real to me then that is true from personal experience. Just because to you God hasn't enough to be proven doesn't make the many who believe in him wrong or meritless. Saying a god is dead will never make it so as long as someone believes. You can't say all gods are dead because to others that is not the case. This is why atheists and the religious fight so much. A religious person gives their side, then an atheist blasts it. How is that fair? It's not. Even vice-versa, it is still not fair.

[Gamma Male]

Faith is not baseless. If I say I believe in God and that he is real to me then that is true from personal experience. Just because to you God hasn't enough to be proven doesn't make the many who believe in him wrong or meritless. Saying a god is dead will never make it so as long as someone believes. You can't say all gods are dead because to others that is not the case. This is why atheists and the religious fight so much. A religious person gives their side, then an atheist blasts it. How is that fair? It's not. Even vice-versa, it is still not fair.

Reality is objective. You can have your own opinions, but not your own facts. Believing in something doesn't make it real. God is either real or he isn't, regardless of what you or I believe. But faith in God is every bit as baseless as the claim that I killed him. Unless you have some sort of real proof, you can't hold your claims about God any higher than any other baseless, unproven claims.

[Lovelife090994]

Reality is objective. You can have your own opinions, but not your own facts. Believing in something doesn't make it real. God is either real or he isn't, regardless of what you or I believe. But faith in God is every bit as baseless as the claim that I killed him. Unless you have some sort of real proof, you can't hold your claims about God any higher than any other baseless, unproven claims.

Yeah, but by denying my words and saying they are baseless you are denying me that right to an opnion and belief. This is why atheists and the religious fight so much. Make it stop and rise above it. You saying my faith is baseless doesn't make it so. Faith itself is built on a base of belief. God exists to me. That is my fact. If I said Visnu would you still be against me?

[Gamma Male]

1Yeah, but by denying my words and saying they are baseless you are denying me that right to an opnion and belief. This is why atheists and the religious fight so much. Make it stop and rise above it.2 You saying my faith is baseless doesn't make it so. 3Faith itself is built on a base of belief. God exists to me. That is my fact. If I said Visnu would you still be against me?

1What? No I'm not. If I were to come into your house, put a gun to your head, and tell you not to belief in God then I would be denying you your rights. All I'm doing is pointing out the fact that you don't have any evidence for your beliefs.
2No, you not having any evidence for your beliefs is what makes them baseless.
3You can't have your own facts. Believing something exists doesn't make it any more true. Saying "God exists because I believe he exists" doesn't make any sense, and that kind of circular logic can be used to support anything.

[Lovelife090994]

1What? No I'm not. If I were to come into your house, put a gun to your head, and tell you not to belief in God then I would be denying you your rights. All I'm doing is pointing out the fact that you don't have any evidence for your beliefs.
2No, you not having any evidence for your beliefs is what makes them baseless.
3You can't have your own facts. Believing something exists doesn't make it any more true. Saying "God exists because I believe he exists" doesn't make any sense, and that kind of circular logic can be used to support anything.

My faith is my base. I believe in God out of faith. Saying I have no base is to say I've no reason. I believe in God because I love him. I could say the same to you on why you are atheist and against faith.

[Gamma Male]

My faith is my base. I believe in God out of faith. Saying I have no base is to say I've no reason. I believe in God because I love him. I could say the same to you on why you are atheist and against faith.

That's fine, but that doesn't mean your unproven beliefs are any more valid than other unproven beliefs. When Matcik(or whatever his name is) said he killed God, that claim was just as valid and just as baseless as yours. You wanna believe in something because of faith? Fine. But don't act as if that makes your beliefs better than Matcikes beliefs about having killed God.

[Lovelife090994]

That's fine, but that doesn't mean your unproven beliefs are any more valid than other unproven beliefs. When Matcik(or whatever his name is) said he killed God, that claim was just as valid and just as baseless as yours. You wanna believe in something because of faith? Fine. But don't act as if that makes your beliefs better than Matcikes beliefs about having killed God.

I never said my faith is above another. And my God can't be dead because by my faith he isn't. Christianity says God is eternal. What do you want from me? Him saying my God is dead is an insult.

[Gamma Male]

I never said my faith is above another. And my God can't be dead because by my faith he isn't. Christianity says God is eternal. What do you want from me? Him saying my God is dead is an insult.

I want you to admit that your belief about God being real and Matickes claim of having killed God are both equally valid. Neither have any objective proof.

[Lovelife090994]

I want you to admit that your belief about God being real and Matickes claim of having killed God are both equally valid. Neither have any objective proof.

I can't. The ideas conflict. Plus I won't. I won't commit blasphemy for you.

[Gamma Male]

I can't. The ideas conflict. Plus I won't. I won't commit blasphemy for you.

Objectively speaking, his beliefs and yours are both equally valid because neither have any evidence.

[Lovelife090994]

Objectively speaking, his beliefs and yours are both equally valid because neither have any evidence.

Technically, to you, yes. But I will not deny my God. I will not say he is dead. I will not commit blasphemy. I think he can babble what he wants about God but it doesn't make it right. His and my beliefs are conflicting. It's like me and a Muslim. I believe in Jesus as god on Earth, for a Muslim that is blasphemy. Likewise Muslims see Jesus as a prophet but not as a son of God or God on Earth. If I held that belief then I'd be commiting blasphemy.

[Miserabilia]

You are so blind. Of course no one deserved to die but they were punished for their actions and words as we all will if we don't repent and see our errors. Say what you want but God has the last laugh. If you died today and saw God what would you say then? God is not horrendous, but you are in your thinking. You blame Christians and insult our faith and think it proper since you are an atheist. Being atheist is one thing and being rude, accusative, and insulting are other things. Oh God is unchanging but those negative acts were not out of him. You do realize how the Old Testament involves a totally different era and people right? The Jews have that one since the Old Testament is rooted from the Jewish Torah. But even that is another Holy Book but still under the same God of Isaac, Abraham, and many other great men, women, children, kings, and queens. You really are blind. You don't even know how Christianity is supposed to be. it's love, the past may have been misguided but we live to learn from our mistakes and replace them with peace. We seek to bring love. And you are an awful person to say God is an awful god, you won't be able to run from that. Now, I am praying for you I really am because you sound too much like the Pharisees and Lucifer for your own good. I rebuke every evil in your body and ask God to rip it out. You are a vessel for which evil shouldn't be residing. You can know the Bible word for word and never get it or live by it. Lucifer knows The Word too but he doesn't live by it either and also hates all of humanity especially the Jews and Christians because unlike him we are chosen and can be in Heaven with The King. Have a happy and blessed day. I should thank you. You gave me another soul to pray for; yours. Your hatred and discontent must have a root somewhere and it is not Earthly nor human.


So, if you call someone a name, than you and 40 of your friends deserve to get eaten by bears because god sent them.
What a nice guy, this god.

If if if, rehotircs don't work here.

You blame Christians and insult our faith and think it proper since you are an atheist.

>blame christians
For what? What did I blame? :what:

rude, accusative, and insulting are other things.
Not being rude, just not sugarcoating your precious beleifs;
I'm going to respond however I like as long as there's some argument, this iss a debate subforum, if you want to spare yourself the hreatache of my "rudenes" don't allow it to happen.

Oh God is unchanging but those negative acts were not out of him. You do realize how the Old Testament involves a totally different era and people right?

So a different god too?
I thought god was unchanging?
Or are you dismissing any desciption of god in the old testament as false?

Now, I am praying for you I really am because you sound too much like the Pharisees and Lucifer for your own good. I rebuke every evil in your body and ask God to rip it out. Your hatred and discontent must have a root somewhere and it is not Earthly nor human.


Lol I am not even sure how to respond to that.
Holy f*ck dude, that's messed up.
Way to go.

[TheKingIam]

That's not evidence against a God, that's evidence for.. well,





It's evidence against the bible and the qran and many many other religions

[Bleid]

It's evidence against the bible and the qran and many many other religions

But the Bible ≠ God, nor is any other religious text.

[Miserabilia]

But the Bible ≠ God, nor is any other religious text.

The bible implies specifialy to be the pure word of god.



2 Timothy 3:16-17 ESV

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

---

Revelation 22:18-19 ESV

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

------

2 Peter 1:20-21 ESV

Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

--


MOST IMPORTANTLY:::

John 1:1 ESV

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[Bleid]

The bible implies specifialy to be the pure word of god.

It does - but this does not mean anything regarding the God itself that it claims to be the pure word of.

[tovaris]

Your words are empty. God can't die, he cannot be beat. God is eternal. Why say a lie that you killed him? You are sounding like a monster.

im not saing a lie the debate point was is god dead, yes he is for i have killed him
its as simple as that. So prove to me, the god slaier, theat it cant be bone, i mean i have done it and all it took was an axe (i got the idea from Dostojevski but insted of kiling an old hag i killed god itself).
With this act I alsu purged the world of sine, now that there is noone to say what is a sin there is nomore sin.

[Capto]

The Bible is not the word of God.

[darthearth]

The bible implies specifialy to be the pure word of god.



2 Timothy 3:16-17 ESV

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

---

Yes.

Revelation 22:18-19 ESV

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

------

Only pertains to the Book of Revelation, not the Bible.

2 Peter 1:20-21 ESV

Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

--

Only deals with prophecy, not anything else in the Bible.


MOST IMPORTANTLY:::

John 1:1 ESV

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Refers to Christ, not the Bible.

So it is only in one place, 2nd Timothy, that the Bible implies itself to be what tradition makes it out to be. As far as I know that one scripture is the only one used to justify inerrant text dogma. Just felt the need to clarify.

[ThatGuy13]

no kidding but the vatican isn't all clean either they invest craploads of money into porn and payday loan companies like wonga which is completely against catholic beliefs

[Lovelife090994]

So, if you call someone a name, than you and 40 of your friends deserve to get eaten by bears because god sent them.
What a nice guy, this god.

If if if, rehotircs don't work here.



>blame christians
For what? What did I blame? :what:


Not being rude, just not sugarcoating your precious beleifs;
I'm going to respond however I like as long as there's some argument, this iss a debate subforum, if you want to spare yourself the hreatache of my "rudenes" don't allow it to happen.



So a different god too?
I thought god was unchanging?
Or are you dismissing any desciption of god in the old testament as false?



image (http://lemonsqueeziy.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/dreamstime_xs_1094641.jpg)

Lol I am not even sure how to respond to that.
Holy f*ck dude, that's messed up.
Way to go.

All of that went over your head when all you can is laugh. Honestly, do you expect to keep this charade? You obviously don't understnad theology, so why quote or care? I have gave you answers but they seem to not sate your ideals. What I said is true to all. No one deserves ridicule. Talk ill of someone when they did no ill to get that then you are responsible for your own words. God's people are like all, not to be spoken badly of. God decides when to jump in but at the same time no one can point. When you point those other fingers point back to you. Those early stories say that and that is why punishment happened. Back then all you had was your word. Words have power. Even the Bible says how things were spoken into being. God speaks and by Word is His Word, the Holy Bible. People literally killed others for false witness, in fact it is a commandment to not bear false witness. We have moved on and while we are held to our words, only God and guilt can hold you to all of your words.

[TheKingIam]

But the Bible ≠ God, nor is any other religious text.

The Bible is the words of god and if they are disproven then god is disproven

[Gamma Male]

The Bible is the words of god and if they are disproven then god is disproven

Disproving the bible doesn't disprove God.

[TheKingIam]

Disproving the bible doesn't disprove God.

It disproves the Bible's god

[Gamma Male]

It disproves the Bible's god

Yes, but it doesn't disprove God in general. Common sense is what does that.

[TheKingIam]

Yes, but it doesn't disprove God in general.

Yeah, I knew that already
thank you captain obvious

[Miserabilia]

All of that went over your head when all you can is laugh. Honestly, do you expect to keep this charade? You obviously don't understnad theology, so why quote or care? I have gave you answers but they seem to not sate your ideals. What I said is true to all. No one deserves ridicule. Talk ill of someone when they did no ill to get that then you are responsible for your own words. God's people are like all, not to be spoken badly of. God decides when to jump in but at the same time no one can point. When you point those other fingers point back to you. Those early stories say that and that is why punishment happened. Back then all you had was your word. Words have power. Even the Bible says how things were spoken into being. God speaks and by Word is His Word, the Holy Bible. People literally killed others for false witness, in fact it is a commandment to not bear false witness. We have moved on and while we are held to our words, only God and guilt can hold you to all of your words.

Well obviously a debate about the nature of the christian god is compltely pointless with you.
I gave you several good sources from the bible to show my point, what have you given me?
Also, please stop acting like a victim here, I'm participating in the discussion, I'm not trying to insult you. If you are insulted by my arguments, than it's your own fault, since you do keep reading, visiting and responding them and placing your opinion in a public debate forum.

Those early stories say that and that is why punishment happened. Back then all you had was your word. Words have power. Even the Bible says how things were spoken into being. God speaks and by Word is His Word, the Holy Bible. People literally killed others for false witness, in fact it is a commandment to not bear false witness. We have moved on and while we are held to our words, only God and guilt can hold you to all of your words.

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say here?

[Capto]

The Bible is the words of god and if they are disproven then god is disproven

That's ipso facto false.

[Miserabilia]

That's ipso facto false.

Christians beleive that their god, the christian god, god in christianity, is represented purely in the bible whether literaly or symbolicaly, and see the bible as their holy book and guide.
Perhaps not for all christians, but for christians who take the bible literaly, their specific god is disproven simply by what he did.

[Lovelife090994]

Well obviously a debate about the nature of the christian god is compltely pointless with you.
I gave you several good sources from the bible to show my point, what have you given me?
Also, please stop acting like a victim here, I'm participating in the discussion, I'm not trying to insult you. If you are insulted by my arguments, than it's your own fault, since you do keep reading, visiting and responding them and placing your opinion in a public debate forum.



I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say here?

It isn't pointless. You are. Denying every god and god in the face of a believer. You never tell someone their god is fake or not real. Technically I am a victim of your misconception-filled mind since you spout it to me. Placing an opinion is placing, not an invite to argue and insult, something you need to learn. I am Christian so I get it. You however won't get it, not with that attitude. You don't even have to be Christian to get it, just open! but you are so close-minded on the subject.

[Gamma Male]

It isn't pointless. You are. Denying every god and god in the face of a believer. You never tell someone their god is fake or not real. Technically I am a victim of your misconception-filled mind since you spout it to me. Placing an opinion is placing, not an invite to argue and insult, something you need to learn. I am Christian so I get it. You however won't get it, not with that attitude. You don't even have to be Christian to get it, just open! but you are so close-minded on the subject.

If you don't want to engage in a rational debate don't post in a debate forum. It's as simple as that. He "denys" your God because you have yet to put forth a logical, well reasoned argument in support of God. If you want to deny logic and reason and rely on faith instead, go ahead. But don't expect people in a debate forum to agree with you!

[Bleid]

The Bible is the words of god and if they are disproven then god is disproven

Oh, well if they are the words of God, then there clearly is a God, by necessity.

If they are not his words, then they have absolutely no weight on whether or not there is a God.

So, as you can see, either way you cut it, your argument doesn't work.

If it is the words of God in the Bible, then we're done here. You've just shown yourself wrong.
If it isn't the words of God, we're also done here, because it has no bearing on whether or not there is a God.

Those being the only two possibilities (by tautology), you've left yourself in a bad spot.



Similarly, though, if the Bible is still able to be pushed as it is to make people think it's such a capstone in the God discussion, then certainly people can be persuaded by movies.

[Lovelife090994]

If you don't want to engage in a rational debate don't post in a debate forum. It's as simple as that. He "denys" your God because you have yet to put forth a logical, well reasoned argument in support of God. If you want to deny logic and reason and rely on faith instead, go ahead. But don't expect people in a debate forum to agree with you!

You want to know what I think? You really need to lighten up. If you believe everything you see then you are a fool. Try compassion and love. I live by faith and wisdom, big difference. What do you live be? Answer me that, please. I am happy and content with my Lord who'll never leave me. But what do you have? What do you have that I never will? We should be equals. Don't let your own shortcomings divide your mind into black and white thinking.

[Capto]

Christians beleive that their god, the christian god, god in christianity, is represented purely in the bible whether literaly or symbolicaly, and see the bible as their holy book and guide.
Perhaps not for all christians, but for christians who take the bible literaly, their specific god is disproven simply by what he did.

Irrelevant.

[Miserabilia]

Irrelevant.

lolwut.
I replied to your reply to his reply to your reply about how he disproved that god by disproving the go din their bible, you said that was false and I just showed how it wasn't.
It's relevant.

[Miserabilia]

It isn't pointless. You are. Denying every god and god in the face of a believer. You never tell someone their god is fake or not real. Technically I am a victim of your misconception-filled mind since you spout it to me. Placing an opinion is placing, not an invite to argue and insult, something you need to learn. I am Christian so I get it. You however won't get it, not with that attitude. You don't even have to be Christian to get it, just open! but you are so close-minded on the subject.



Denying every god and god in the face of a believer. You never tell someone their god is fake or not real.

I do whatever you want.
ON top of that, I am not denying every god; I am not a gnostic atheist.
I am not saying that there is definetly not a god.
I'm saying I don't beleive in it and debating about why not.

Technically I am a victim of your misconception-filled mind since you spout it to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality

Logic is not to insults. Logic should have wisdom but apparently your wisdom is lacking. In a debate forum you debate the this is also in General Discussions. Technically you are supposed to respect all faiths and beliefs, anthing less is rude and lacks all character. Dismissing claims doesn't prove your own. And I will be insulted as long as you both keep insulting me by dismissing every point I make rather than answering me.

Dismissing claims doesn't prove your own.
Nothing to proove about the not beleiving of something.
Also, all you have been doing for your past 5 posts is talking about other points and dismissing them.
I do so too, but atleast I'm not trying to act like I don't.

And I will be insulted as long as you both keep insulting me by dismissing every point I make rather than answering me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality


You want to know what I think? You really need to lighten up. If you believe everything you see then you are a fool. Try compassion and love. I live by faith and wisdom, big difference. What do you live be? Answer me that, please. I am happy and content with my Lord who'll never leave me. But what do you have? What do you have that I never will? We should be equals. Don't let your own shortcomings divide your mind into black and white thinking.

If you believe everything you see then you are a fool.
???

Try compassion and love.
I'm prety sure I and gamma male and every other atheist and participant in this debate is able to feel and fight for compassion and love.

I live by faith and wisdom, big difference. What do you live be? Answer me that, please
I live to enrich my own experience to find the secrets of this amazing world, to experience, teach, love, feel and be amazed.
This answer is different to everyone.

But what do you have? What do you have that I never will?

I dunno. Not really something to answer to that, seems kinda irrelevant.
Not sure what you mean.


Don't let your own shortcomings divide your mind into black and white thinking.

[Gamma Male]

You want to know what I think? You really need to lighten up. If you believe everything you see then you are a fool. Try compassion and love. I live by faith and wisdom, big difference. What do you live be? Answer me that, please. I am happy and content with my Lord who'll never leave me. But what do you have? What do you have that I never will? We should be equals. Don't let your own shortcomings divide your mind into black and white thinking.

This is what you do. You just completely ignored what I said and instead spouted something about love and faith that is completely irrelevant to what I said.

Answer my question. Why do you continue to go on to a debate forum and discuss religion but get mad whenever anybody uses logic against your claims? How can you expect people on a debate forum to take to you seriously. You wanna live your live using faith and prayer instead of reason and logic? Go ahead. That's fine. But don't go on to a DEBATE forum and expect your faith based claims to be treated the same as logic based claims, because they aren't the same. And stop acting insulted and hurt. Neither me nor Cheese has attacked you personally, or insulted you, or anything like that. All we've done is dismiss your claims.

[Lovelife090994]

This is what you do. You just completely ignored what I said and instead spouted something about love and faith that is completely irrelevant to what I said.

Answer my question. Why do you continue to go on to a debate forum and discuss religion but get mad whenever anybody uses logic against your claims? How can you expect people on a debate forum to take to you seriously. You wanna live your live using faith and prayer instead of reason and logic? Go ahead. That's fine. But don't go on to a DEBATE forum and expect your faith based claims to be treated the same as logic based claims, because they aren't the same. And stop acting insulted and hurt. Neither me nor Cheese has attacked you personally, or insulted you, or anything like that. All we've done is dismiss your claims.

Logic is not to insults. Logic should have wisdom but apparently your wisdom is lacking. In a debate forum you debate the this is also in General Discussions. Technically you are supposed to respect all faiths and beliefs, anthing less is rude and lacks all character. Dismissing claims doesn't prove your own. And I will be insulted as long as you both keep insulting me by dismissing every point I make rather than answering me.

[Capto]

lolwut.
I replied to your reply to his reply to your reply about how he disproved that god by disproving the go din their bible, you said that was false and I just showed how it wasn't.
It's relevant.

It's completely irrelevant if you even care to look at the context.

The Bible is explicitly not the verbatim word of God.

Let me repeat.

The Bible is explicitly not the verbatim word of God.

And third time's the charm.

The Bible is explicitly not the verbatim word of God.

I also fail to see where I explicitly denied the disproof of God.

[Miserabilia]

It's completely irrelevant if you even care to look at the context.

The Bible is explicitly not the verbatim word of God.

Let me repeat.

The Bible is explicitly not the verbatim word of God.

And third time's the charm.

The Bible is explicitly not the verbatim word of God.

I also fail to see where I explicitly denied the disproof of God.

yea if you'd "even care' to explain how it's irrelevant, that'd be great. (Since I already explained how it's relevant, but appearently it's not, and it's just obvious but I guess I'm totaly missing it.)

And you can repeat this all you want,
but all I said is that the god biblical christians beleive in is explicitly the god of the bible and once the god in their bible is disproven, "He" is.
Not the concept of a god in general, but the god as described in the bible.

[Elvalight]

It was indeed a bad movie in my opinion, but that doesn't mean there can't be a good Christian movie. I am Christian myself, but I know a bad movie when I see it. People don't see heaven until they die, kids have dreams and make stuff up.

[Gamma Male]

Logic is not to insults. Logic should have wisdom but apparently your wisdom is lacking. In a debate forum you debate the this is also in General Discussions. Technically you are supposed to respect all faiths and beliefs, anthing less is rude and lacks all character. Dismissing claims doesn't prove your own. And I will be insulted as long as you both keep insulting me by dismissing every point I make rather than answering me.

How have I been disrespectful?

The reason I've dismissed most of your claims is because you haven't provided any evidence for them. Instead, whenever anybody disagrees with you you respond with some vague philosophical statement about faith or wisdom that has nothing to do with the argument at hand, and then act like the other person is being disrespectful because they disagree with you. I'm not trying to insult you. I'm just trying to get you to stop avoiding the questions and provide actual evidence for your claims.

[Lovelife090994]

How have I been disrespectful?

The reason I've dismissed most of your claims is because you haven't provided any evidence for them. Instead, whenever anybody disagrees with you you respond with some vague philosophical statement about faith or wisdom that has nothing to do with the argument at hand, and then act like the other person is being disrespectful because they disagree with you. I'm not trying to insult you. I'm just trying to get you to stop avoiding the questions and provide actual evidence for your claims.

You're not even disagreeing! You are not even acknowledging!

[Gamma Male]

You're not even disagreeing! You are not even acknowledging!

What am I not acknowledging?

[Lovelife090994]

What am I not acknowledging?

Any of the points made in previous plethora of quotes. Mainly thos I think you wrote, "vaguely philosophical" statements.

[Gamma Male]

Any of the points made in previous plethora of quotes. Mainly thos I think you wrote, "vaguely philosophical" statements.

That's because most of what you say is completely irrelevant. You need to be way more specific, and respond to everything I said. What does "logic is not to insults! Logic should have wisdom!" even mean? That you can't use logic to dispute someone's claims? That I'm not use logic in a debate forum unless it coincides with your beliefs too? That logic only makes sense if it's approved by the majority, or if it comes from a bearded old "wise" man? I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say.

[Miserabilia]

Any of the points made in previous plethora of quotes. Mainly thos I think you wrote, "vaguely philosophical" statements.

I like how you accuse others of not replying to your points while I feel like you haven't even noticed that I replied to you?
Anyway.
Have a point?
State it now.
State it simple,
like I am stating what I "want" now;
I want you to say exactly what any of your points are.

[Capto]

yea if you'd "even care' to explain how it's irrelevant, that'd be great. (Since I already explained how it's relevant, but appearently it's not, and it's just obvious but I guess I'm totaly missing it.)

And you can repeat this all you want,
but all I said is that the god biblical christians beleive in is explicitly the god of the bible and once the god in their bible is disproven, "He" is.
Not the concept of a god in general, but the god as described in the bible.

Here's how it's irrelevant, for a fourth time. Perhaps it will be more clear in this manner:

The Bible is explicitly not the verbatim word of God.

[Lovelife090994]

I like how you accuse others of not replying to your points while I feel like you haven't even noticed that I replied to you?
Anyway.
Have a point?
State it now.
State it simple,
like I am stating what I "want" now;
I want you to say exactly what any of your points are.

That's because most of what you say is completely irrelevant. You need to be way more specific, and respond to everything I said. What does "logic is not to insults! Logic should have wisdom!" even mean? That you can't use logic to dispute someone's claims? That I'm not use logic in a debate forum unless it coincides with your beliefs too? That logic only makes sense if it's approved by the majority, or if it comes from a bearded old "wise" man? I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say.

You both are young so I don't expect either of you to get it. I explained everything to the best of my ability. Cheese, I had no clue you replied. Besides, given your words I would have ignored your words anyway simply because I do not want to answer. Logic is not always the best thing because it considers anything it can't understand as irrational.

[Gamma Male]

You both are young so I don't expect either of you to get it. I explained everything to the best of my ability. Cheese, I had no clue you replied. Besides, given your words I would have ignored your words anyway simply because I do not want to answer. Logic is not always the best thing because it considers anything it can't understand as irrational.

Age has nothing to do with this. Please don't act like you are somehow innately more wise just because you're a few years older.

When I encounter something I don't understand, I attempt to learn more about it. I understand religion perfectly. I just don't think religion is correct. Also, you sound a bit hypocritical. You use logic to make decisions all the time. You stop at red lights because that is the logical thing to do. When you use math, you're using logic. If people relied on faith instead of logic, you would not be alive right now because every scientific and medical breakthrough that has ever been made has been made using logic, science, and hard work. Not faith, prayer, and blind obedience.