God is indeed dead

[Miserabilia]

You both are young so I don't expect either of you to get it. I explained everything to the best of my ability. Cheese, I had no clue you replied. Besides, given your words I would have ignored your words anyway simply because I do not want to answer. Logic is not always the best thing because it considers anything it can't understand as irrational.

>You both are so young I don't expect you to get it
> I would have ignored your words anyway simply because I do not want to answer



Logic is not always the best thing because it considers anything it can't understand as irrational.

Yes, that's because rationality is based on logic and the other way around... Something irrational is not logical and something not logical is not rational.

I explained everything to the best of my ability.
You still haven't stated your "point".
Just present me a single argument.

[Lovelife090994]

Age has nothing to do with this. Please don't act like you are somehow innately more wise just because you're a few years older.

When I encounter something I don't understand, I attempt to learn more about it. I understand religion perfectly. I just don't think religion is correct. Also, you sound a bit hypocritical. You use logic to make decisions all the time. You stop at red lights because that is the logical thing to do. When you use math, you're using logic. If people relied on faith instead of logic, you would not be alive right now because every scientific and medical breakthrough that has ever been made has been made using logic, science, and hard work. Not faith, prayer, and blind obedience.

I am alive by prayer. I was very sick growing up, so much so that doctors gave up on me, but my mother and local churches never gave up. I use logic but unlike you it is not keeping me from faith which is priceless. You don't know me, my life has been tragic and the only thing that helps is my faith, not the petty words of others.

[Lovelife090994]

>You both are so young I don't expect you to get it
> I would have ignored your words anyway simply because I do not want to answer

image (http://www.cfoic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/people-laughing.jpg)



Yes, that's because rationality is based on logic and the other way around... Something irrational is not logical and something not logical is not rational.


You still haven't stated your "point".
Just present me a single argument.

What do you want from me? I gave my thoughts and you keep arguing against them. I believe in God. I explain why. You call me irrational. I counter that by saying it is my faith. You spit on my faith. I tell you I'm offended. You fail to understand. Repeat five times. Here. Talking to you is worse than being up against a wall! At least a wall is quiet and if hit will hurt back, but you are so inflexible, emotionless, and petty.

[Gamma Male]

I am alive by prayer. I was very sick growing up, so much so that doctors gave up on me, but my mother and local churches never gave up. I use logic but unlike you it is not keeping me from faith which is priceless. You don't know me, my life has been tragic and the only thing that helps is my faith, not the petty words of others.

How do you know prayer is what caused you to get better? You don't. You're confusing correlation and causation. You have absolutely no evidence to suggest that prayer caused you to get better.

What do you want from me? I gave my thoughts and you keep arguing against them. I believe in God. I explain why. You call me irrational. I counter that by saying it is my faith. You spit on my faith. I tell you I'm offended. You fail to understand. Repeat five times. Here. Talking to you is worse than being up against a wall! At least a wall is quiet and if hit will hurt back, but you are so inflexible, emotionless, and petty.

Hhmmm, more like...
You state that you believe in the Christian God.
He tells you that believing in the christian god is illogical.
You respond by saying that you do not care that your beliefs are illogical,because you have faith.
We point out to you that THIS IS A DEBATE FORUM and in DEBATE FORUMS circular, faith based reasoning doesn't fly. You're expected to back up your claims with proof.
You respond by acting really insulted and offended and spout out some vague, irrelevant, pseudo philosophical statement about wisdom or faith that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Repeat.

Merged double post. -Cygnus David

[Lovelife090994]

Hhmmm, more like...
You state that you believe in the Christian God.
He tells you that believing in the christian god is illogical.
You respond by saying that you do not care that your beliefs are illogical,because you have faith.
We point out to you that THIS IS A DEBATE FORUM and in DEBATE FORUMS circular, faith based reasoning doesn't fly. You're expected to back up your claims with proof.
You respond by acting really insulted and offended and spout out some vague, irrelevant, pseudo philosophical statement about wisdom or faith that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Repeat.

Prayer has helped me, so don't you dare denounce that. Faith can fly where sight falls. You do not make the rules for the forum. If my answer is faith-based, then it is. You will not change me. You have no reason or proof to say prayer didn't help me. Prayer helps all. It can help you too. Now, I am going to walk away from this topic. I pray you get understand. A debate is a debate, not a bash parade. You need to learn. Even a logical man can miss things the religious man can see. You and me differ but your beliefs are no better than mine and we are equals.

[Gamma Male]

Prayer has helped me, so don't you dare denounce that. Faith can fly where sight falls. You do not make the rules for the forum. If my answer is faith-based, then it is. You will not change me. You have no reason or proof to say prayer didn't help me. Prayer helps all. It can help you too. Now, I am going to walk away from this topic. I pray you get understand. A debate is a debate, not a bash parade. You need to learn. Even a logical man can miss things the religious man can see. You and me differ but your beliefs are no better than mine and we are equals.

Fine. But I maintain that beliefs derived from logical reasoning are better than beliefs derived from blind faith.

[Lovelife090994]

Fine. But I maintain that beliefs derived from logical reasoning are better than beliefs derived from blind faith.

And basically that means you think it is better to be atheist than religious? Religious people have reasoning too. We just have faith as well something you still don't get. Reasoning can come from anywhere and those of faith have two sources, their faith, and their knowledge. You don't seem to get that if you think beliefs from faith is both blind and lacks reason. Also, if most of the world follows some sort of faith, why do you think faith is such a bad thing? You should be able to respect beliefs without jumping to conclusions about them. Just because someone is relgious does not mean the person ignores knowledge. Likewise knowledge is not akin to ignoring all religion and its history either. To me there is something you are not getting.

[Stronk Serb]

And basically that means you think it is better to be atheist than religious? Religious people have reasoning too. We just have faith as well something you still don't get. Reasoning can come from anywhere and those of faith have two sources, their faith, and their knowledge. You don't seem to get that if you think beliefs from faith is both blind and lacks reason. Also, if most of the world follows some sort of faith, why do you think faith is such a bad thing? You should be able to respect beliefs without jumping to conclusions about them. Just because someone is relgious does not mean the person ignores knowledge. Likewise knowledge is not akin to ignoring all religion and its history either. To me there is something you are not getting.

Maybe because they were raised by that faith. Taught from a young age to follow it, in some cases taught to blindly obey it. I was born atheist, but only by influences from my family, I embraced Christianity, only to denounce it after studying the dogma because it seemed like a great way to control people and it was so self-contradictory.

[Lovelife090994]

Maybe because they were raised by that faith. Taught from a young age to follow it, in some cases taught to blindly obey it. I was born atheist, but only by influences from my family, I embraced Christianity, only to denounce it after studying the dogma because it seemed like a great way to control people and it was so self-contradictory.

Obeying faith isn't blind because don't obey it, you have it. No one has the power to make you believe, and don't believe if you simply can't. It is not to control because faith is ppersonal. If it is church you don't like then don't because many churches are not true or caring. If your family brought you up in Christianity but you never felt God's love or kept to him without the church then your family failed there. I do not go to church. I have spirituality versus religiousness yet I still believe in God and by choice. No one can make me not believe or believe. Religion has served as inspiration for many. Some need to idea of a deity, a heaven, a hell, a book, spirit, and who are we to deny them? Fiath is personal, religion isn't. You can be atheist but know that by doing so doesn't make you right or wrong, your words determine that.

[Miserabilia]

Obeying faith isn't blind because don't obey it, you have it. No one has the power to make you believe, and don't believe if you simply can't. It is not to control because faith is ppersonal. If it is church you don't like then don't because many churches are not true or caring. If your family brought you up in Christianity but you never felt God's love or kept to him without the church then your family failed there. I do not go to church. I have spirituality versus religiousness yet I still believe in God and by choice. No one can make me not believe or believe. Religion has served as inspiration for many. Some need to idea of a deity, a heaven, a hell, a book, spirit, and who are we to deny them? Fiath is personal, religion isn't.

Well ofcourse.
That's all true.
Some need to beleive in these things for personal comforts.
They have blind faith and nothing can change their mind.
But it's not relevant to any logical argument, in fact this pretty much shows that you admit to not having a logical argumen for the existence of your god, or other theists.


And basically that means you think it is better to be atheist than religious? Religious people have reasoning too. We just have faith as well something you still don't get. Reasoning can come from anywhere and those of faith have two sources, their faith, and their knowledge. You don't seem to get that if you think beliefs from faith is both blind and lacks reason. Also, if most of the world follows some sort of faith, why do you think faith is such a bad thing? You should be able to respect beliefs without jumping to conclusions about them. Just because someone is relgious does not mean the person ignores knowledge. Likewise knowledge is not akin to ignoring all religion and its history either. To me there is something you are not getting.

You don't seem to get that if you think beliefs from faith is both blind and lacks reason.

That's because faith in a god IS blind faith, many christians admit it themselves; even if someone could somehow DISproove their god, they would still have blind faith that He exists somehow somewhere.
It also lacks reason! Faith relies on faith alone, and not on data or proof.

Also, if most of the world follows some sort of faith, why do you think faith is such a bad thing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
That's a fallicious argument.

Just because someone is relgious does not mean the person ignores knowledge.

Did I say they do? No, I didn't, nobody did, you're just making it sound like these are the things I said.



Prayer has helped me, so don't you dare denounce that. Faith can fly where sight falls. You do not make the rules for the forum. If my answer is faith-based, then it is. You will not change me. You have no reason or proof to say prayer didn't help me. Prayer helps all. It can help you too. Now, I am going to walk away from this topic. I pray you get understand. A debate is a debate, not a bash parade. You need to learn. Even a logical man can miss things the religious man can see. You and me differ but your beliefs are no better than mine and we are equals.

What do you want from me? I gave my thoughts and you keep arguing against them. I believe in God. I explain why. You call me irrational. I counter that by saying it is my faith. You spit on my faith. I tell you I'm offended. You fail to understand. Repeat five times. Here. Talking to you is worse than being up against a wall! At least a wall is quiet and if hit will hurt back, but you are so inflexible, emotionless, and petty.

I'm not sure how many times we are supposed to remind you that this iS A DEBATE SUBFORUM.
:) :) :)

I explain why. You call me irrational. I counter that by saying it is my faith. You spit on my faith.

Or maybe... Just MAYBE... You are too easily offended? I don't know. Could you quote me where I "spat" in your faith?
Because I didn't.

-edited. unnecessary. -Emerald Dream

At least a wall is quiet and if hit will hurt back, but you are so inflexible, emotionless, and petty.

How is what you are saying right here not offensive, but us arguing against your fallicious logic of faith is?
You are getting personal here, and simply rude.
Stop and get back on the topic instead of writing about how mean I am to you.


----

TL;DR summary;
Do me a favour would ya please and stick to arguments instead of getting personal,
and please stop the victim mentality as it only slows this whole thing down.

[Lovelife090994]

Well ofcourse.
That's all true.
Some need to beleive in these things for personal comforts.
They have blind faith and nothing can change their mind.
But it's not relevant to any logical argument, in fact this pretty much shows that you admit to not having a logical argumen for the existence of your god, or other theists.






That's because faith in a god IS blind faith, many christians admit it themselves; even if someone could somehow DISproove their god, they would still have blind faith that He exists somehow somewhere.
It also lacks reason! Faith relies on faith alone, and not on data or proof.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
That's a fallicious argument.



Did I say they do? No, I didn't, nobody did, you're just making it sound like these are the things I said.







I'm not sure how many times we are supposed to remind you that this iS A DEBATE SUBFORUM.
:) :) :)



Or maybe... Just MAYBE... You are too easily offended? I don't know. Could you quote me where I "spat" in your faith?
Because I didn't.



image (http://www.wordans.com.au/wvc-1296473468/wordansfiles/images/2011/1/31/64676/64676_340.jpg)



How is what you are saying right here not offensive, but us arguing against your fallicious logic of faith is?
You are getting personal here, and simply rude.
Stop and get back on the topic instead of writing about how mean I am to you.


----

TL;DR summary;

Do me a favour would ya please and stick to arguments instead of getting personal,
and please stop the victim mentality as it only slows this whole thing down.


Do me a favor and quit insulting me. You do not know if God doesn't exist. Christianity wouldn't be around and for so long if it wasn't. Some truth to it. God exists to me and you have no right to deem that as fallacy. That is an insult! You honestly think that religion and faith is fallacy and not right, but that is not right, that is some opinion. You can't keep being this hostile to those who are religious. The things about religion is that no one has to prove their faith or god. You do not ask someone to prove it when they say they believe in a god or God himself. All he ever did was love. You are too young to let your heart be evil now. You make me sick but I'm not leaving because you have no power. I will not cry because you're sadistic and want that.

[Miserabilia]

Do me a favor and quit insulting me. You do not know if God doesn't exist. Christianity wouldn't be around and for so long if it wasn't. Some truth to it. God exists to me and you have no right to deem that as fallacy. That is an insult! You honestly think that religion and faith is fallacy and not right, but that is not right, that is some opinion. You can't keep being this hostile to those who are religious. The things about religion is that no one has to prove their faith or god. You do not ask someone to prove it when they say they believe in a god or God himself. All he ever did was love. You are too young to let your heart be evil now. You make me sick but I'm not leaving because you have no power. I will not cry because you're sadistic and want that.

For the last time,
I am not insulting you.
I did not attack your personality or you as a person,
just the arguments you gave that were simply bad.

Christianity wouldn't be around and for so long if it wasn't. Some truth to it.

Something being around for a long time doesn't mean anything to how true it is.

You honestly think that religion and faith is fallacy and not right,

No, I do not.
I pointed out that what you said was a fallacy and not right, because it was.

The things about religion is that no one has to prove their faith or god. You do not ask someone to prove it when they say they believe in a god or God himself.

No, indeed, you don't; however, you put out your opinions and arguemnts on this debate forum, so I respond to them.

Not to mention that you are simply a hypocrite in claiming to be insulted by us while the truth is that as I and others are debating ideas and arguments, you are getting personal.
Don't get personal.
DOn't be a hyprocrite.

*all quotes directly from you*!

You make me sick but I'm not leaving because you have no power. I will not cry because you're sadistic and want that.

At least a wall is quiet and if hit will hurt back, but you are so inflexible, emotionless, and petty.

I am a victim of your misconception-filled mind since you spout it to me.

It isn't pointless. You are.

-edited. Unnecessary. -Emerald Dream

Try defending your beleifs and try arguing mine, don't try to insult me and put on a victim mentality yourself.

I'm honestly starting to think it's pretty funny.


*PS: I do realize that now I am being a hypocrite myself by pointing out that you are and therefore getting personal etc etc,
so BY ALL MEANS;

[Harry Smith]

Christianity wouldn't be around and for so long if it wasn't Some truth to it.

-edited. Unnecessary. -Emerald Dream

You are joking right, just because something exists for a long time doesn't make it true, we thought the earth was flat for a good 300 years in the middle ages, didn't make it true. In the grand scheme of the earth Christianity is still a baby.

Also you need to stop saying that everyone who denounces your faith 'is an evil heretic who is insulting me in the light of my holy god', I haven't seen anyone insult you-they've just questioned your faith. Something that is going to happen in a debate, the same way that christian's love questioning gay marriage.

[Gamma Male]

Do me a favor and quit insulting me. You do not know if God doesn't exist. Christianity wouldn't be around and for so long if it wasn't. Some truth to it. God exists to me and you have no right to deem that as fallacy. That is an insult! You honestly think that religion and faith is fallacy and not right, but that is not right, that is some opinion. You can't keep being this hostile to those who are religious. The things about religion is that no one has to prove their faith or god. You do not ask someone to prove it when they say they believe in a god or God himself. All he ever did was love. You are too young to let your heart be evil now. You make me sick but I'm not leaving because you have no power. I will not cry because you're sadistic and want that.

You keep talking about how you don't HAVE to prove your faith to anyone. And you're right. You don't.





Except........
THIS IS A DEBATE SUBFORUM
THIS IS A DEBATE SUBFORUM
THIS IS A DEBATE SUBFORUM
THIS IS A DEBATE SUBFORUM
THIS IS A DEBATE SUBFORUM


And on DEBATE SUBFORUMS you are expected to do two things.
1 Back up your claims with evidence, not personal faith.
Ans 2 Not be insulted or offended simply because someone disagrees with your you.
Neither of those two things have you done successful ly.

[Stronk Serb]

Obeying faith isn't blind because don't obey it, you have it. No one has the power to make you believe, and don't believe if you simply can't. It is not to control because faith is ppersonal. If it is church you don't like then don't because many churches are not true or caring. If your family brought you up in Christianity but you never felt God's love or kept to him without the church then your family failed there. I do not go to church. I have spirituality versus religiousness yet I still believe in God and by choice. No one can make me not believe or believe. Religion has served as inspiration for many. Some need to idea of a deity, a heaven, a hell, a book, spirit, and who are we to deny them? Fiath is personal, religion isn't. You can be atheist but know that by doing so doesn't make you right or wrong, your words determine that.

It is to control.
-church dictates dogma
-church used to enforce dogma
-the dogma survives because you have people forcing it unto their kids

About that healing, yeah, unnatural things happen to atheist kids too. In pediatrics here, senior doctors aren't surprised by that.
-I was born, and I inhaled my first breath after ten minutes of doctors fighting for my life
-I battled a hellish fever and made a recovery in three weeks, they expected five
-I used to have serious migraine attacks. Nothing helped, medicine, prayer, nothing. Last year they completely stopped, I was that time atheist and still am.

[Lovelife090994]

It is to control.
-church dictates dogma
-church used to enforce dogma
-the dogma survives because you have people forcing it unto their kids

About that healing, yeah, unnatural things happen to atheist kids too. In pediatrics here, senior doctors aren't surprised by that.
-I was born, and I inhaled my first breath after ten minutes of doctors fighting for my life
-I battled a hellish fever and made a recovery in three weeks, they expected five
-I used to have serious migraine attacks. Nothing helped, medicine, prayer, nothing. Last year they completely stopped, I was that time atheist and still am.

You keep talking about how you don't HAVE to prove your faith to anyone. And you're right. You don't.





Except........
THIS IS A DEBATE SUBFORUM
THIS IS A DEBATE SUBFORUM
THIS IS A DEBATE SUBFORUM
THIS IS A DEBATE SUBFORUM
THIS IS A DEBATE SUBFORUM


And on DEBATE SUBFORUMS you are expected to do two things.
1 Back up your claims with evidence, not personal faith.
Ans 2 Not be insulted or offended simply because someone disagrees with your you.
Neither of those two things have you done successful ly.



You are joking right, just because something exists for a long time doesn't make it true, we thought the earth was flat for a good 300 years in the middle ages, didn't make it true. In the grand scheme of the earth Christianity is still a baby.

Also you need to stop saying that everyone who denounces your faith 'is an evil heretic who is insulting me in the light of my holy god', I haven't seen anyone insult you-they've just questioned your faith. Something that is going to happen in a debate, the same way that christian's love questioning gay marriage.[/QUOTE]

For the last time,
I am not insulting you.
I did not attack your personality or you as a person,
just the arguments you gave that were simply bad.



Something being around for a long time doesn't mean anything to how true it is.



No, I do not.
I pointed out that what you said was a fallacy and not right, because it was.



No, indeed, you don't; however, you put out your opinions and arguemnts on this debate forum, so I respond to them.

Not to mention that you are simply a hypocrite in claiming to be insulted by us while the truth is that as I and others are debating ideas and arguments, you are getting personal.
Don't get personal.
DOn't be a hyprocrite.

*all quotes directly from you*!



image (http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/tlorna/tlorna1005/tlorna100500012/8267666-man-on-laptop-having-fun-male-st-on-sofa-at-home-pointing-and-looking-amused-on-pc-screen.jpg)

Try defending your beleifs and try arguing mine, don't try to insult me and put on a victim mentality yourself.

I'm honestly starting to think it's pretty funny.

*PS: I do realize that now I am being a hypocrite myself by pointing out that you are and therefore getting personal etc etc,
so BY ALL MEANS;
let's get back on topic and stop personal insults. Yes, you too, lovelife. Stop.

You say I have nothing to prove yet want me to anyway? You say you have no problem with religion yet insult it. You say I am taking it personal, but what do you expect? Christianity is more than my faith, it is personal, it is my life. I literally have nothing else. It is bad enough I am lonely, it is worse that by simply leaving a harmless opinion I get pounced on. But, you win. I give up, I'm leaving. You've all made me feel worse than before to the point that now I am tearful. I get not all are Christian or religious but do you have to say usch things? Why are you so against my words. I am not lying, I am just speaking the only way I know how. I am not playing victim, I literally am one to your words.

[Gamma Male]

You say I have nothing to prove yet want me to anyway? You say you have no problem with religion yet insult it. You say I am taking it personal, but what do you expect? Christianity is more than my faith, it is personal, it is my life. I literally have nothing else. It is bad enough I am lonely, it is worse that by simply leaving a harmless opinion I get pounced on. But, you win. I give up, I'm leaving. You've all made me feel worse than before to the point that now I am tearful. I get not all are Christian or religious but do you have to say usch things? Why are you so against my words. I am not lying, I am just speaking the only way I know how. I am not playing victim, I literally am one to your words.

I honestly don't know where this is coming from. What did you expect when you posted here? I'm sorry we made you feel bad, but if you can't handle a rational discussion of your beliefs you shouldn't of posted in a thread specifically intended for rational discussion. Nobody "pounced" on you. You posted your opinions, and we posted differing opinions, and due to the nature of the thread expected logical discourse to follow. People say sometimes offensive statements about homosexuality, veganism, and atheism all the time on the internet, but I don't get mad because I know that they're just trying to engage in debate and that they don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. If you truly believe in Christianity then it shouldn't matter what we think.

[Emerald Dream]

Let's stop with trying to insult other members and the obnoxious attempts at jokes, gifs, videos, and fonts, please. This is a debate forum.

[Vlerchan]

Lovelife has explained a number of times now that the basis for his belief in Christianity stems from unwavering faith.

I don't understand why people would be bothered attempting to debate past that, which has literally been the last few pages.

[Stronk Serb]

You say I have nothing to prove yet want me to anyway? You say you have no problem with religion yet insult it. You say I am taking it personal, but what do you expect? Christianity is more than my faith, it is personal, it is my life. I literally have nothing else. It is bad enough I am lonely, it is worse that by simply leaving a harmless opinion I get pounced on. But, you win. I give up, I'm leaving. You've all made me feel worse than before to the point that now I am tearful. I get not all are Christian or religious but do you have to say usch things? Why are you so against my words. I am not lying, I am just speaking the only way I know how. I am not playing victim, I literally am one to your words.


I'm sorry if I insulted you. This is a debate subforum, you could've expected something like this, I did not pounce on you. People have different opinions on everything, veganism, atheism, political ideas... It was a harsh debate, but nobody said anything really bad about you, yeah, I dislike religion in general, but that doesn't mean that the followers of religion are lesser humans or something.

[Miserabilia]

You say I have nothing to prove yet want me to anyway? You say you have no problem with religion yet insult it. You say I am taking it personal, but what do you expect? Christianity is more than my faith, it is personal, it is my life. I literally have nothing else. It is bad enough I am lonely, it is worse that by simply leaving a harmless opinion I get pounced on. But, you win. I give up, I'm leaving. You've all made me feel worse than before to the point that now I am tearful. I get not all are Christian or religious but do you have to say usch things? Why are you so against my words. I am not lying, I am just speaking the only way I know how. I am not playing victim, I literally am one to your words.

You say I have nothing to prove yet want me to anyway?

Sigh... I'm saying you need to back up what you say in a DEBATE.

You say you have no problem with religion yet insult it.

Correction: You are insulted by it. It's impossible to insult an idea.

You say I am taking it personal, but what do you expect?

i expect you to participate in a discusssion without ridiculous and outragious claims about my personality and my life. That's getting personal.

It is bad enough I am lonely, it is worse that by simply leaving a harmless opinion I get pounced on.

I'm not even going to give the same response we have done for 20 times again, I'm assuming that by now you understand that this is a debate forum, and you chose to put your post out here. I'm not pouncing on YOU, but on your ridiculous way of debate and victim mentality.

I get not all are Christian or religious but do you have to say usch things? Why are you so against my words.

Exactly, I am against your words,
because they didnd't make logical sense.
I'm not trying to hurt you as a person.

I am not playing victim
Yes, yes you are in atleast half of the posts here.

[Emerald Dream]

We are honestly going in circles with this and it will not change. I think this has pretty much run its course. :locked: