Proove God

[Spooky_Eli]

Right, the idea is simple, we start with the idea that God, does not exist. This is the idea that the Atheist (I) hold.
What I would like to do is ask people who belive in a God, to, in a word, attempt to change my mind. Please🙃

And if you convince me you'll win a no-prize, so

[lliam]

At heist God exists because atheists starts to pray.

[Spooky_Eli]

At heist God exists because atheists starts to pray.
Nobodies preyers have any effect on God, and no "true" (yh yh, no tru scot, ik) atheist prays to God.

But thank you for some world class bullshit right out the gate.

[ska8er]

I dont want to win anything.
God is in everything. Look at the stars and the planets.
All the different animals and plants and flowers. Look at
the human body how each function works. How our bodies
from top to bottom-our fingers and toes are proportional to
each other-Ditto-our sex organs. How sex is beautiful in the
way we reproduce. Do you think this all came about from
nothing? Im not overly religious but I believe cause there
has to be a reason for all of this.

This is my reasoning and Im not going to debate it. If any
one does not want to believe then that is their right but
not mine.

[lliam]

But thank you for some world class bullshit right out the gate.


Sadly you didn't get the ironic pun. But how you react prooves, how religious you are with being an true atheist. Grats for that! :D

[Spooky_Eli]

I dont want to win anything.
God is in everything. Look at the stars and the planets.
All the different animals and plants and flowers. Look at
the human body how each function works. How our bodies
from top to bottom-our fingers and toes are proportional to
each other-Ditto-our sex organs. How sex is beautiful in the
way we reproduce. Do you think this all came about from
nothing? Im not overly religious but I believe cause there
has to be a reason for all of this.

This is my reasoning and Im not going to debate it. If any
one does not want to believe then that is their right but
not mine.

Complexity explains nothing; see the blind watchmaker.
Nothing came from nothing, this is a gross misconception.

Sadly you didn't get the ironic pun. But how you react prooves, how religious you are with being an true atheist. Grats for that! :D

Atheism is not a reigion.

[HeyCameron]

I don't think that's gonna happen. People don't believe in God because of "first mover" arguments and philosophical arcana, they believe because they have faith. I consider myself an agnostic who leans toward believing there is a higher power of some kind, I just don't believe in a specific religion's conception of it. Dogma and doctrine don't convince me. I also believe that science and religion are not at odds and that if there is a God, then science is just a way to understand a God-created world, not something that could ever "disprove" God as some religious people seem to fear.

I just think that both people who try and aggressive prove or disprove God are not gonna get anywhere. :)

[Spooky_Eli]

I don't think that's gonna happen. People don't believe in God because of "first mover" arguments and philosophical arcana, they believe because they have faith. I consider myself an agnostic who leans toward believing there is a higher power of some kind, I just don't believe in a specific religion's conception of it. Dogma and doctrine don't convince me. I also believe that science and religion are not at odds and that if there is a God, then science is just a way to understand a God-created world, not something that could ever "disprove" God as some religious people seem to fear.

I just think that both people who try and aggressive prove or disprove God are not gonna get anywhere. :)

The only God that science doesn't disprove is a Deistic one.
And you've given an exellent example of why Faith is bull, nothing more.

[lliam]

Complexity explains nothing; see the blind watchmaker.Atheism is not a reigion.

Imo, there's nothing to explain. I don't care about explanation why things are as I expierence them. I simply accept their existence and thats it.

I think, so I am. An old and simple philosophical concept of perceived reality.


My "belief" is that anything can become religion if you start to discuss it in a more religious way.

Life would be much more relaxed if everyone lived their own conviction in this regard and doesn't develop a missionary zeal to spread those convictions. And that's what real atheists do. I got it from my mom. She's a militant atheist. Don't talk to her about higher spiritaul believings and she'll pray you the concept f Atheism.

And because I met others like my mom, that's why I claim atheism has become a religion.

Religion is belief and spreading it. Then a teaching becomes a belief. And the more this "faith" is spread in an organized way, the more faith becomes a religion. It makes no difference whether you believe in a god or gods or deny their existence.

It's not the content that defines the principle, but the principle itself defines itself as a principle through its transferability to any content, precisely because it is always preserved, while content may die.

And therfore, I see religion more as a principle than as content.

[Bluebyrd]

I don't think that's gonna happen. People don't believe in God because of "first mover" arguments and philosophical arcana, they believe because they have faith. I consider myself an agnostic who leans toward believing there is a higher power of some kind, I just don't believe in a specific religion's conception of it. Dogma and doctrine don't convince me. I also believe that science and religion are not at odds and that if there is a God, then science is just a way to understand a God-created world, not something that could ever "disprove" God as some religious people seem to fear.

I just think that both people who try and aggressive prove or disprove God are not gonna get anywhere. :)

EXACTLY THIS

You're never going to have your mind changed if you need proof.

[Spooky_Eli]

YImo, there's nothing to explain. I don't care about explanation why things are as I expierence them. I simply accept their existence and thats it.

I think, so I am. An old and simple philosophical concept of perceived reality.


My "belief" is that anything can become religion if you start to discuss it in a more religious way.

Life would be much more relaxed if everyone lived their own conviction in this regard and doesn't develop a missionary zeal to spread those convictions. And that's what real atheists do. I got it from my mom. She's a militant atheist. Don't talk to her about higher spiritaul believings and she'll pray you the concept f Atheism.

And because I met others like my mom, that's why I claim atheism has become a religion.

Religion is belief and spreading it. Then a teaching becomes a belief. And the more this "faith" is spread in an organized way, the more faith becomes a religion. It makes no difference whether you believe in a god or gods or deny their existence.

It's not the content that defines the principle, but the principle itself defines itself as a principle through its transferability to any content, precisely because it is always preserved, while content may die.

And therfore, I see religion more as a principle than as content.
Religion is a system of worship built around a single or multiple deities. Take your subjectivist deconstruction and give it to someone who cares.

EXACTLY THIS

You're never going to have your mind changed if you need proof.

I'm sorry? What are you on about? Proof is the only reliable way to live one's life.

[Bluebyrd]

I'm sorry? What are you on about? Proof is the only reliable way to live one's life.

I guess I'm living an unreliable life then since I don't need proof for everything.

[Spooky_Eli]

I guess I'm living an unreliable life then since I don't need proof for everything.

It's hardly everything; its the only question that matters. I'd say one needs proof when someone says, for example, "the earth is 4,000 years old." Especially considering that there is a mountain of proof that says otherwise. So yeah, maybe i won't ever be convinced of it: But that's only because its bullcrap

[Bluebyrd]

It's hardly everything; its the only question that matters. I'd say one needs proof when someone says, for example, "the earth is 4,000 years old." Especially considering that there is a mountain of proof that says otherwise. So yeah, maybe i won't ever be convinced of it: But that's only because its bullcrap

It doesn't really matter to me. It doesn't affect my life at all. But whatever floats your boat. :)

[Spooky_Eli]

It doesn't really matter to me. It doesn't affect my life at all. But whatever floats your boat. :)

Whatever man, whatever. This thead has become a shitshow antway so i'll take ur smily face h call it:)

[Ben7]

If you're looking for hard proof then you'll be looking forever because there is no concrete proof that you can arrive at by scientific means. Science, by definition, only deals with observations of natural phenomena, but God exists in the supernatural. For this reason, both science and theism can exist together without one infringing on the other's sphere (contrary to popular notions that science makes belief unnecessary and irrelevant) and neither gets in the way of the other. Science can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God. If you are genuinely interested in exploring this further, I recommend you read the book "The Language of God" by Francis S. Collins. Collins is the director of the National Institutes of Health and he is by all means a man of strong medical and scientific background but one that also deeply believes.

Of course, there have been a number of philosophical arguments to try to rationally prove the existence of a higher power (for example Aquinas' 5 proofs of the existence of God). And while these may make sense depending on the person, it also largely depends on your preconceived notions when you're studying such proofs. If you've already made up your mind ahead of time that God doesn't exist, then there is nothing that will convince you otherwise. And this is because faith is the key component of belief. It's as the old adage says: For those with faith, no explanation is necessary. For those without faith, no explanation will suffice.

[Spooky_Eli]

YIf you're looking for hard proof then you'll be looking forever because there is no concrete proof that you can arrive at by scientific means. Science, by definition, only deals with observations of natural phenomena, but God exists in the supernatural. For this reason, both science and theism can exist together without one infringing on the other's sphere (contrary to popular notions that science makes belief unnecessary and irrelevant) and neither gets in the way of the other. Science can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God. If you are genuinely interested in exploring this further, I recommend you read the book "The Language of God" by Francis S. Collins. Collins is the director of the National Institutes of Health and he is by all means a man of strong medical and scientific background but one that also deeply believes.

Of course, there have been a number of philosophical arguments to try to rationally prove the existence of a higher power (for example Aquinas' 5 proofs of the existence of God). And while these may make sense depending on the person, it also largely depends on your preconceived notions when you're studying such proofs. If you've already made up your mind ahead of time that God doesn't exist, then there is nothing that will convince you otherwise. And this is because faith is the key component of belief. It's as the old adage says: For those with faith, no explanation is necessary. For those without faith, no explanation will suffice.

Indeed, to have faith is the evidance of the unseen, and to belive is to hold faith as a conviction. I mearly find faith to be baseless.I have no reason to have it, esp in any theistic deity

[Ralph.S.G.R]

I don't think it is provable really, hence the rising amounts of atheists in the world. I don't really consider myself religious but i go to church nonetheless, just for the nice sense of community and tradition that i get from it. However, for all intents and purposes, i'm an atheist.

[ImCoolBeans]

I don’t think that one belief could prove or disprove another. I don’t know what I believe and I’m ok with that. I also don’t think that some random person saying “you’ve proved nothing” or “that sounds better” gives any weight or real distrust To anybody’s opinions. Say what you want, people will believe what they want and your opinion is not changing that fact.

[Emilyfox]

Nobodies preyers have any effect on God, and no "true" (yh yh, no tru scot, ik) atheist prays to God.

But thank you for some world class bullshit right out the gate.

Well many say prayers help and it’s not something that can be proven or disproven. Which may be convenient for either sides of the argument

If you’re not a spiritual or empathic person it may be hard for you to understand how others feel a difference from others positivity or supernatural effects of things or places

[Spooky_Eli]

Well many say prayers help and it’s not something that can be proven or disproven. Which may be convenient for either sides of the argument

If you’re not a spiritual or empathic person it may be hard for you to understand how others feel a difference from others positivity or supernatural effects of things or places

What makes you think you should trust feelings?

[knives]

What makes you think you should trust feelings?

Some you shouldn’t, others you should
But more importantly not to deny feelings

[Spooky_Eli]

Some you shouldn’t, others you should
But more importantly not to deny feelings

yes, but as an example, if you feel that unicorns are real, doesn't mean that they are.

[knives]

yes, but as an example, if you feel that unicorns are real, doesn't mean that they are.

That’s really not a feeling, that’s more a supposition

[Spooky_Eli]

That’s really not a feeling, that’s more a supposition

No, i said if you feel, much like feeling, say, the presence of god. Doesn't mean that its real.

[knives]

No, i said if you feel, much like feeling, say, the presence of god. Doesn't mean that its real.

But it doesn’t mean it’s not real either

Some are more spiritual than others

[Spooky_Eli]

But it doesn’t mean it’s not real either

Some are more spiritual than others

Omg, that's not how it works. Until it's shown to be, it's not there.

Um, no. I reject spirituality in all its forms. It's hocus pocus.

[knives]

Omg, that's not how it works. Until it's shown to be, it's not there.

Um, no. I reject spirituality in all its forms. It's hocus pocus.

Lol that still doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, just because one troll chooses to ignore or deny the experiences of others :P

[lliam]

Of course it isn't. Spirituality is about that thing called emphaty. Feelings eg are innately cognitive states and part how we response to our surroundings. And they particularly appeal to our precognitive way of thinking, which is mainly based on the sum of our personal experiences. At least spirituality is just another definition for emotionality. And those who ignore or even negate that will live a very poor life. It's about bringing your rationality and emotionality in balance. Not more or less.

And some call it EQ which is considered equal to IQ.

[Spooky_Eli]

Lol that still doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, just because one troll chooses to ignore or deny the experiences of others :P

Personal experience does not prove anything. I'm not a troll just because I give a shit.

Of course it isn't. Spirituality is about that thing called emphaty. Feelings eg are innately cognitive states and part how we response to our surroundings. And they particularly appeal to our precognitive way of thinking, which is mainly based on the sum of our personal experiences. At least spirituality is just another definition for emotionality. And those who ignore or even negate that will live a very poor life. It's about bringing your rationality and emotionality in balance. Not more or less.

And some call it EQ which is considered equal to IQ.
Dude, you've just used science to disproove spirituality. Congratulations, I think.

[knives]

Personal experience does not prove anything. I'm not a troll just because I give a shit.

But you’re not giving a shit, you’re insulting people by saying what they feel isn’t real because you can’t / don’t feel it or they can’t prove it
It’s not others fault or really even their problem that your experiences are so limited and mundane

[Spooky_Eli]

But you’re not giving a shit, you’re insulting people by saying what they feel isn’t real because you can’t / don’t feel it or they can’t prove it
It’s not others fault or really even their problem that your experiences are so limited and mundane

Again, experience is not proof. I'm not saying your feelings aren't real, i'm saying that they don't prove anything, they are entirly subjective.
I'd say you're not listening but then, im not the troll here so it wouldn't supprise me.


And a quick aside, the natural world is anything but mundane

[knives]

Again, experience is not proof. I'm not saying your feelings aren't real, i'm saying that they don't prove anything, they are entirly subjective.
I'd say you're not listening but then, im not the troll here so it wouldn't supprise me.


And a quick aside, the natural world is anything but mundane

And maybe one day it will be proven, like many things before

[Spooky_Eli]

And maybe one day it will be proven, like many things before

And if such a day comes to pass, then obviously my position will change. Until such a time we'll have to peacefully co-exist, which really isn't so hard.

[knives]

And that’s fine - but there is a difference between saying you don’t believe vs others are wrong

And besides - if you have to have proof before you believe... then you don’t have faith

[Spooky_Eli]

And that’s fine - but there is a difference between saying you don’t believe vs others are wrong

And besides - if you have to have proof before you believe... then you don’t have faith

I don't think it's right to have faith.

No, I don't.

[knives]

I don't think it's right to have faith.

No, I don't.

https://tenor.com/view/whatif-matrix-make-gif-5679302

[Lionsden04]

I don’t believe in god so I can’t prove if he exists or not, I don’t see why someone should have to prove god exists

[Spooky_Eli]

I don’t believe in god so I can’t prove if he exists or not, I don’t see why someone should have to prove god exists

Um... I'm confused. Someone should prove his existance because it would be stupid to belive blindly.

[Lionsden04]

Um... I'm confused. Someone should prove his existance because it would be stupid to belive blindly.

I don’t see why it matters, you should learn to respect people’s beliefs

[Spooky_Eli]

If you're looking for hard proof then you'll be looking forever because there is no concrete proof that you can arrive at by scientific means. Science, by definition, only deals with observations of natural phenomena, but God exists in the supernatural. For this reason, both science and theism can exist together without one infringing on the other's sphere (contrary to popular notions that science makes belief unnecessary and irrelevant) and neither gets in the way of the other. Science can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God. If you are genuinely interested in exploring this further, I recommend you read the book "The Language of God" by Francis S. Collins. Collins is the director of the National Institutes of Health and he is by all means a man of strong medical and scientific background but one that also deeply believes.

Of course, there have been a number of philosophical arguments to try to rationally prove the existence of a higher power (for example Aquinas' 5 proofs of the existence of God). And while these may make sense depending on the person, it also largely depends on your preconceived notions when you're studying such proofs. If you've already made up your mind ahead of time that God doesn't exist, then there is nothing that will convince you otherwise. And this is because faith is the key component of belief. It's as the old adage says: For those with faith, no explanation is necessary. For those without faith, no explanation will suffice.

My wondering is why should a Theistic God be taken seriously within the confinds of science?

And indeed why should I have faith? It seems no explination will suffice for that, either.

Science doesn't have to disprove god, it operates under the assumption that something is, until proven otherwise, non-existant.

Lastly, I will certainly check out that book.

[Spooky_Eli]

I don’t see why it matters, you should learn to respect people’s beliefs

It's not a matter of respecting their beliefs, it's a matter of caring about truth. I'm not saying people cannot belive, I mearly think they shouldn't.

[Lionsden04]

It's not a matter of respecting their beliefs, it's a matter of caring about truth. I'm not saying people cannot belive, I mearly think they shouldn't.

The truth is you don’t respect people

[Spooky_Eli]

The truth is you don’t respect people

You're going to have to back that up, lest I call it baseless.

Opinions, not people. Opintions are not capable of being disrespected.

[Zika]

Personal experience does not prove anything. I'm not a troll just because I give a shit.


She has established herself as one who calls anyone she disagrees with, a troll.

[Spooky_Eli]

She has established herself as one who calls anyone she disagrees with, a troll.

second impressions:D

[Zika]

second impressions:D

Careful, or she'll accuse you of something and make stupid comments about your posts lol, of course making herself look foolish in the process.

btw, this is one philosophical question I don't find interesting. Belief in a higher power, in most religions, is about faith, which has nothing to do with proof.

[Spooky_Eli]

Careful, or she'll accuse you of something and make stupid comments about your posts lol, of course making herself look foolish in the process.

btw, this is one philosophical question I don't find interesting. Belief in a higher power, in most religions, is about faith, which has nothing to do with proof.

What i find interesting is why people think faith should be had

[Ragle]

What i find interesting is why people think faith should be had

Bad?



https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-for-those-who-believe-no-proof-is-necessary-for-those-who-don-t-believe-no-proof-is-stuart-chase-5-35-77.jpg

https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-for-those-who-believe-no-explanation-is-necessary-for-those-who-do-not-believe-no-explanation-joseph-dunninger-54-27-83.jpg

[Spooky_Eli]

Bad?



image (https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-for-those-who-believe-no-proof-is-necessary-for-those-who-don-t-believe-no-proof-is-stuart-chase-5-35-77.jpg)

image (https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-for-those-who-believe-no-explanation-is-necessary-for-those-who-do-not-believe-no-explanation-joseph-dunninger-54-27-83.jpg)

Had! Why does everyone use this quote? What reason is there to belive?

[Ragle]

Had!

Ok. Makes sense. :D

Why does everyone use this quote? What reason is there to belive?

I believe there's no reason for believing. But it's fun posting those memes. Or at least it seemed it was for a sec or two. And who's into believing stuff, may believe. I don't care. Unless they are on mission. Those people are annoying.

[Ben7]

My wondering is why should a Theistic God be taken seriously within the confinds of science?

I don't think I said that. All I said was that belief in a higher power and belief/acceptance of science are not mutually exclusive events.

And indeed why should I have faith? It seems no explination will suffice for that, either.
Maybe for you no explanation suffices, but for billions of people who believe throughout the world, they have clearly found some explanation to have faith that they found convincing enough. I'm also not telling you that you should or should not have faith, that is a decision for you to make and live with and what you choose really doesn't affect me in any way. My previous response was to your original post, that is, if you're waiting to receive hard proof of the existence of God then you'll be waiting forever. That's all I'm really saying here.

Science doesn't have to disprove god, it operates under the assumption that something is, until proven otherwise, non-existant.
How did you come to this conclusion?

[Spooky_Eli]

I don't think I said that. All I said was that belief in a higher power and belief/acceptance of science are not mutually exclusive events.


Maybe for you no explanation suffices, but for billions of people who believe throughout the world, they have clearly found some explanation to have faith that they found convincing enough. I'm also not telling you that you should or should not have faith, that is a decision for you to make and live with and what you choose really doesn't affect me in any way. My previous response was to your original post, that is, if you're waiting to receive hard proof of the existence of God then you'll be waiting forever. That's all I'm really saying here.


How did you come to this conclusion?
Fair enough. My apologies. But wait, now I remember, because a Deistic God means nothing more than no god.

I get that. And yes, the figure stands at ovrr 6 billion, but that is niether here nor there.

I didn't. It's elementary. And yes, I suppose i'm reffering to the scientific philosophy of Realism, but it's also the basic structure of the burden of proof. Oh, and lest we forget Empiricism.

[KatieCO2003]

At the risk of feeding what appears to be (or has become) a troll thread:

I'm going to ask you, what do you think "God" is? The common concept of some supernatural old, white, male, judgmental, bearded asshole wearing a toga? Or perhaps, could God be something else entirely? In the movie "The Ten Commandments" Moses asks God what his name is. And God replies... "I am That AM. Tell them, I AM hath sent you". This is actually very close to my Roman Catholic concept of God. Nevermind the 2,000 years of canon and tradition. That's all church. Not God.

I believe that God is everything. Now, could that be scientifically possible? How would it be? How could God be in everything, and have made everything seen and unseen? Well, there's a simple answer. Instead of looking at God as something infinitely large, look at God as something infinitely small, yet still present. Smaller than atoms. Smaller than sub-atomic particles. Smaller even than whatever they're made of. At the very core of everything that exists in the known universe, there is one thing and no one can see, but every scientist admits is there. The call it "the strong atomic force" for lack of a better name. No one knows exactly what it is. Or more importantly, WHY it is. It just...is. Or using the proper pronoun, AM. You can call it "the strong atomic force" if you like. I prefer the word GOD.

[Ben7]

I get that. And yes, the figure stands at ovrr 6 billion, but that is niether here nor there.

I didn't. It's elementary. And yes, I suppose i'm reffering to the scientific philosophy of Realism, but it's also the basic structure of the burden of proof. Oh, and lest we forget Empiricism.

Well if that's so then your previous comment is also neither here nor there. I'm just pointing out that while for you no explanation of faith is sufficient, for billions of other people, some explanation or other has convinced them enough to have faith. The point being - everyone is different.

So let me just make sure I understand the point you're trying to make - are you saying that something does not exist unless it has been proven by the scientific method?

[Spooky_Eli]

Well if that's so then your previous comment is also neither here nor there. I'm just pointing out that while for you no explanation of faith is sufficient, for billions of other people, some explanation or other has convinced them enough to have faith. The point being - everyone is different.

So let me just make sure I understand the point you're trying to make - are you saying that something does not exist unless it has been proven by the scientific method?

Indeed, i get ur point.


More or less, in some way or another. For instance, if i look at my couch, i know, through observation, what it is, but knolage of how it is can only be derived from the scientific method. Not that it needs to, because it is an unextrodinary thing and the empirical evedence of my senses, is enough evidence.
Science is the only illusion against the obvious subjectivity of the universe, if you will.

[Spooky_Eli]

At the risk of feeding what appears to be (or has become) a troll thread:

I'm going to ask you, what do you think "God" is? The common concept of some supernatural old, white, male, judgmental, bearded asshole wearing a toga? Or perhaps, could God be something else entirely? In the movie "The Ten Commandments" Moses asks God what his name is. And God replies... "I am That AM. Tell them, I AM hath sent you". This is actually very close to my Roman Catholic concept of God. Nevermind the 2,000 years of canon and tradition. That's all church. Not God.

I believe that God is everything. Now, could that be scientifically possible? How would it be? How could God be in everything, and have made everything seen and unseen? Well, there's a simple answer. Instead of looking at God as something infinitely large, look at God as something infinitely small, yet still present. Smaller than atoms. Smaller than sub-atomic particles. Smaller even than whatever they're made of. At the very core of everything that exists in the known universe, there is one thing and no one can see, but every scientist admits is there. The call it "the strong atomic force" for lack of a better name. No one knows exactly what it is. Or more importantly, WHY it is. It just...is. Or using the proper pronoun, AM. You can call it "the strong atomic force" if you like. I prefer the word GOD.

This is the most facinating way of looking at spiritual deism that i've ever seen.

[KatieCO2003]

This is the most facinating way of looking at spiritual deism that i've ever seen.

God is, but isn't, but still is. God begot another God, that isn't really another God, yet is. God became a man, died, then rose from the dead, while still being God.
How? ...WTF? Even the Roman Catholic Church, which arguably was founded by Jesus himself 2,020 ears ago, still does not have an official explanation. We simply call it "The mystery of our faith". But ya know, when you look at it scientifically, it makes just as much sense as quantum physics.

[Spooky_Eli]

God is, but isn't, but still is. God begot another God, that isn't really another God, yet is. God became a man, died, then rose from the dead, while still being God.
How? ...WTF? Even the Roman Catholic Church, which arguably was founded by Jesus himself 2,020 ears ago, still does not have an official explanation. We simply call it "The mystery of our faith". But ya know, when you look at it scientifically, it makes just as much sense as quantum physics.

Except we can prove quantum physics, its just the math that trips everyone up

[KatieCO2003]

Except we can prove quantum physics, its just the math that trips everyone up

Except that you really can't. There are theories. But there is no solid, measurable proof for it at this point. Because there is no real way to measure quanta without having the measurement itself alter that which you are attempting to measure. There are a lot of opinionated self-important assholes who say otherwise. They call themselves "scientists". But we could just as easily call them Ministers. And that makes it just as much a belief system as any religion, no matter how much you want to deny it.

You cannot disprove the existence of God, especially by my definition. And therefore, you cannot "win" this argument. At best, we can disagree and hopefully respect each others' beliefs in a polite and civil manner.

[Spooky_Eli]

Except that you really can't. There are theories. But there is no solid, measurable proof for it at this point. Because there is no real way to measure quanta without having the measurement itself alter that which you are attempting to measure. There are a lot of opinionated self-important assholes who say otherwise. They call themselves "scientists". But we could just as easily call them Ministers. And that makes it just as much a belief system as any religion, no matter how much you want to deny it.

You cannot disprove the existence of God, especially by my definition. And therefore, you cannot "win" this argument. At best, we can disagree and hopefully respect each others' beliefs in a polite and civil manner.

�� A scientific theory is a hypothisis backed up by a collection of data. Its a fact beyond reasonable doubt.
Science is not a religon, nothing is worshiped.


I don't need to disprove it, you need to do the oppisite.
But indeed.

[Zika]

There are a lot of opinionated self-important assholes who say otherwise.

At best, we can disagree and hopefully respect each others' beliefs in a polite and civil manner.

It seems these two statements are in direct conflict with one another.

[knives]

Careful, or she'll accuse you of something and make stupid comments about your posts lol, of course making herself look foolish in the process.

btw, this is one philosophical question I don't find interesting. Belief in a higher power, in most religions, is about faith, which has nothing to do with proof.

When obvious trolls are trolling it’s obvious

But I agree with you - it’s a philosophical issue, a matter of faith that cannot be proven or disproven - Spooky Eli wasnt genuinely hoping for someone to provide him with proof so he could accept and follow a God, it was just to troll, to make people angry or defensive

It’s very rude

[knives]

At the risk of feeding what appears to be (or has become) a troll thread:

I'm going to ask you, what do you think "God" is? The common concept of some supernatural old, white, male, judgmental, bearded asshole wearing a toga? Or perhaps, could God be something else entirely? In the movie "The Ten Commandments" Moses asks God what his name is. And God replies... "I am That AM. Tell them, I AM hath sent you". This is actually very close to my Roman Catholic concept of God. Nevermind the 2,000 years of canon and tradition. That's all church. Not God.

I believe that God is everything. Now, could that be scientifically possible? How would it be? How could God be in everything, and have made everything seen and unseen? Well, there's a simple answer. Instead of looking at God as something infinitely large, look at God as something infinitely small, yet still present. Smaller than atoms. Smaller than sub-atomic particles. Smaller even than whatever they're made of. At the very core of everything that exists in the known universe, there is one thing and no one can see, but every scientist admits is there. The call it "the strong atomic force" for lack of a better name. No one knows exactly what it is. Or more importantly, WHY it is. It just...is. Or using the proper pronoun, AM. You can call it "the strong atomic force" if you like. I prefer the word GOD.


I agree that’s how I feel
You sound like you’re in Colorado so are probably more away from cities like me, if you’ve had much to do with First Nations people then it’s quickly apparent they have a spiritual connection to the land and nature and animals and so on that can’t be explained but it’s real, some of us have those connections

It’s like people didn’t believe a lot of things to do with astronomy and physics, but they were still real

[Spooky_Eli]

When obvious trolls are trolling it’s obvious

But I agree with you - it’s a philosophical issue, a matter of faith that cannot be proven or disproven - Spooky Eli wasnt genuinely hoping for someone to provide him with proof so he could accept and follow a God, it was just to troll, to make people angry or defensive

It’s very rude

How dare you assume what I was hoping for? Clearly you're unfamiler with the countless other atheists who think that matters of faith can be proven. I hold that same view. I asked this question, as unakwardly as I could, with the intention of holding peaceful debate. You wanna know what's rude? Derailing ah entire thread, about something the op genuinly cares about, just for shits n giggles.

And I do hope the party responsable had their fair mesure of shit.


*When obvious trolls are trolling it’s obvious* its like they say, out of the mouths of babes.

[Zika]

When obvious trolls are trolling it’s obvious

But I agree with you - it’s a philosophical issue, a matter of faith that cannot be proven or disproven - Spooky Eli wasnt genuinely hoping for someone to provide him with proof so he could accept and follow a God, it was just to troll, to make people angry or defensive

It’s very rude

I saw this as an attempt by Spooky Eli to engage in an intelligent, respectful debate about an issue which many people feel strongly about.

Those who are open-minded, no matter how strongly they feel one way or the other, are able to do so. Those who aren't, find these kinds of exercises a form or trolling, done to make people angry or defensive.

[knives]

I saw this as an attempt by Spooky Eli to engage in an intelligent, respectful debate about an issue which many people feel strongly about.

Those who are open-minded, no matter how strongly they feel one way or the other, are able to do so. Those who aren't, find these kinds of exercises a form or trolling, done to make people angry or defensive.

I dunno, one of his early comments was to say “faith is bull, nothing more” and rarely does an atheist want a pleasant debate about something they refuse to be convinced of or think intelligent people can have or believe in

It’s insulting to a great many people

[Zika]

I dunno, one of his early comments was to say “faith is bull, nothing more” and rarely does an atheist want a pleasant debate about something they refuse to be convinced of or think intelligent people can have or believe in

It’s insulting to a great many people

Yes, a great many snowflakes in the world.

The good news is, anyone who finds the discussion insulting, doesn't have to participate in it.

[logan2002]

God did not make man
Man made gods

[lliam]

Dude, you've just used science to disproove spirituality. Congratulations, I think.

Can't be. I studying Arts and Design. So there's no way I could even accidentally or not even to an certain extent explain stuff in a scientific way.

So it must be you who got me wrong.

[Ben7]

More or less, in some way or another. For instance, if i look at my couch, i know, through observation, what it is, but knolage of how it is can only be derived from the scientific method. Not that it needs to, because it is an unextrodinary thing and the empirical evedence of my senses, is enough evidence.
Science is the only illusion against the obvious subjectivity of the universe, if you will.

I'm no longer sure that I understand the point you're trying to make here with your last response.

In any case, I'll just leave you with what I noted in my first response in this thread, which is that science is limited in that you can only observe/study natural phenomena or events. However, any higher power (i.e. God) is a supernatural being and thus science is inherently incapable of either proving or disproving its existence (no matter how badly you may be hoping for such proof or refutation to come from science). So if you are waiting for science to "prove" the existence of God then you'll be sorely disappointed.

[HeyCameron]

The furthest you can get is proving or disproving certain claims about a higher power (e.g. if a higher power exists, then humans were created in their present form and did not evolve from earlier hominids). Of course not everyone believes such an implication, but a many do believe the existence of God hinges on such implications, and an implication like that can be evaluated with physical evidence. (Because you're making a claim about the physical world to support a metaphysical claim).

[CarrieOC]

I believe in God but that is through faith. I dont want to prove to people because its utterly your right to choose not to believe.
Not saying i believe every word in the bible but I believe in God.

God and science can get along. I believe in evolution but why could that not have started with God.

[Oscar-V3.0]

Right, the idea is simple, we start with the idea that God, does not exist. This is the idea that the Atheist (I) hold.
What I would like to do is ask people who belive in a God, to, in a word, attempt to change my mind. Please🙃

And if you convince me you'll win a no-prize, so

I dont try ro convince anyone that God exists, that's something inside of you

[Emerald Dream]

You're probably not going to get an answer, because people are going to be set in their beliefs....one way or another.

Maybe a better question be to ask is - can God coexist with science?

One is fact, that's able to be proven, and the other is idk...hoping and believing?

[Bostonian]

Well, as I'm not an evangilist, I don't attempt to convince others.

I can't prove God. I believe in God because of my faith.

One of Marriam-Webster's definition of faith describes it as: "firm belief in something for which there is no proof"

[Phoebe_]

I think that’s the deal with faith
Believing it even if you can’t see proof of it