Genesis

[Farmland]

Here i want to discuss about book of Genesis (Adam and Eve, tower of Babilon...).

Recently i've been thinking a lot about evolution and also about Adam and Eve.
I have quit good explanation. When God started talking to Moses he couldn't have just said that he did evolution that he made all the rules of physic and chemistry (all molecules and atoms , reaction...) . I mean i am pretty sure people of bronze age who lived in tents and were hunter wouldn't understand something so complex. He gave us time to find out this stuff by ourself.

But now i am wandering why do we have to get baptised if there was probably no Adam and Eve at all and it was just a story for old nations (their lack of knowledge and understandment) . Probably it is to show the connection between God and people and to show that we care about him. Maybe to withdraw our animal side (since we developed from primats) ?

At same point i am also wandering if evolution is true. We have a lot of evidence but still... God is almighty so he could just create all the evidence to trick us. No one knows no one saw this --> evolution and also Adam and Eve.

[lliam]

just declare genesis equal to evolution, and that the dates in the Bible are to be understood only symbolically, since people in pre-biblical times had no idea of such vast periods, as they are taught nowadays in school if the case is about history or development of the Universe or even of life on Earth.

Science and faith need not necessarily be opposites if one reinterprets holy scriptures flexibly and takes them for what they are, namely writings written by individual, mortal believers who simply interpreted their deity in the context of the knowledge of those ancient times.

Anyone who takes such sriptures literally imo seems to be a fundamentalist, and fundamentalists simply don't have an expanded spiritual and spiritual horizon, what most leads to bigotry and hypocrisy we know so well from our times.


therefore, imo, you must not withdrawing anything, but simply adapt just a few things.

[Farmland]

Thank you for your opinion it helps but i am still wandering whats the main reason of baptisem.

[Spooky_Eli]

Thank you for your opinion it helps but i am still wandering whats the main reason of baptisem.to puplicly proclaim your faith.

[ShineintheDark]

Thank you for your opinion it helps but i am still wandering whats the main reason of baptisem.

I mean in terms of theology, it's meant to wash away the Original Sin of Adam and Eve and therefore allow the follower of Christ to begin a fresh slate of deed, whether good or bad. As far as I'm aware, the blessed water of the font is meant to cleanse the person of sin and make them born anew, whether they are a baby or adult (depending on your denomination and therefore when a member of the church is baptised).

[mattsmith48]

Here i want to discuss about book of Genesis (Adam and Eve, tower of Babilon...).

Recently i've been thinking a lot about evolution and also about Adam and Eve.
I have quit good explanation. When God started talking to Moses he couldn't have just said that he did evolution that he made all the rules of physic and chemistry (all molecules and atoms , reaction...) . I mean i am pretty sure people of bronze age who lived in tents and were hunter wouldn't understand something so complex. He gave us time to find out this stuff by ourself.

But now i am wandering why do we have to get baptised if there was probably no Adam and Eve at all and it was just a story for old nations (their lack of knowledge and understandment) . Probably it is to show the connection between God and people and to show that we care about him. Maybe to withdraw our animal side (since we developed from primats) ?

At same point i am also wandering if evolution is true. We have a lot of evidence but still... God is almighty so he could just create all the evidence to trick us. No one knows no one saw this --> evolution and also Adam and Eve.

God planting evidence to trick us, that must be it, because it couldn't possibly be that the book of genesis is just made up shit and that evolution is proving that.

[HeyCameron]

If Genesis is mythological or allegorical or subject to a wide variety of interpretation (this last one is at least indisputable), it doesn't need to be scientifically accurate.

The Bible is not a scientific document. People who act like it is (whether atheists trying to prove it false or believers trying to prove it true) are missing the point of the different functions of science and religion.

[mattsmith48]

If Genesis is mythological or allegorical or subject to a wide variety of interpretation (this last one is at least indisputable), it doesn't need to be scientifically accurate.

The Bible is not a scientific document. People who act like it is (whether atheists trying to prove it false or believers trying to prove it true) are missing the point of the different functions of science and religion.

The Bible is not a scientific document but it is based of scientific knowledge from the time it was written. And it was written to be taken literally like any other religious texts whether its from the older religions like Islam, Judaism or Christianity or from the newer ones like Mormonism or Scientology.

The problem I have with the interpretation thing is, while some things in the Bible was not intended to be interpreted literally alot of things clearly were. A talking snake convincing Eve to eat the apple can be interpreted in many ways, but God creating everything in 7 days and created man from his image. That is clearly meant to be literal.

[lliam]

Imo, without exception, everything's meant to be just for interpretation in scriptures .

Also, I don't think that in such scriptures like the Bible something ever has been described, even rudimentarily, scientifically. There may be historical references to real life events. In the end it's all based on general knowledge, perhaps even on self-experienced situations, but there's no relation to scientifically acquired knowledge.

[mattsmith48]

Imo, without exception, everything's meant to be just for interpretation in scriptures .

Challenge Accepted

[Farmland]

Thank you for all your replies it helps me a lot to understand the bible. Buh lonej

[Oscar-V3.0]

Thank you for all your replies it helps me a lot to understand the bible. Buh lonej

Sometimes it is more of a guide than a strict code.
For me the 10 commandments are literal (you shall not kill etc)
But other things are more of interpretation. Like I dont believe a snake conviced a girl to eat an apple (since when snakes can talk? :P )

[Spooky_Eli]

(since when snakes can talk? :P )ummm? since Satan took the form of one? duh

[Oscar-V3.0]

ummm? since Satan took the form of one? duh
Personaly if I realized a snake is talking to me, I wouldn't start to listen to him but rather go to a shrink... :D

[Spooky_Eli]

Personaly if I realized a snake is talking to me, I wouldn't start to listen to him but rather go to a shrink... :DDon't get me wrong, i apprechiate your humor but, yknow nobody knew what a shrink was right? thats kinda the whole thing about the tree of knowlege, is that nobody had the knowlege except God and his Angels(encluding lucifer) so eve was like, the most nieve chick ever at that point

[mattsmith48]

Sometimes it is more of a guide than a strict code.
For me the 10 commandments are literal (you shall not kill etc)
But other things are more of interpretation. Like I dont believe a snake conviced a girl to eat an apple (since when snakes can talk? :P )

ummm? since Satan took the form of one? duh

Personaly if I realized a snake is talking to me, I wouldn't start to listen to him but rather go to a shrink... :D

Come on guys, everyone knows the talking snake was just Eve trippin on mushrooms.

[Farmland]

I guess God shouldnt have created drugs back than ... XD

[mattsmith48]

I guess God shouldnt have created drugs back than ... XD

There is a lot of things in the bible God shouldn't have done.

[Oscar-V3.0]

I guess God shouldnt have created drugs back than ... XD

God didn't create drugs. Humans created them from plants

[Spooky_Eli]

God didn't create drugs. Humans created them from plants

and god creaated the plants, but if you wanna go the "man should not medleth" route...

[mattsmith48]

and god creaated the plants, but if you wanna go the "man should not medleth" route...

According to the bible God created everything as it is he did create the plant but also the effect the plant as when consumed. You could also argue while its the human that is responsible for creating meth but that God is responsible for the effects that meth as on the human brain.

[Spooky_Eli]

According to the bible God created everything as it is he did create the plant but also the effect the plant as when consumed. You could also argue while its the human that is responsible for creating meth but that God is responsible for the effects that meth as on the human brain.that- thats the point i was making, God created the plants, therefore,..

[Adamant]

Ok so new to all this religion stuff. Done some stuff in RE lessons though so.....Isn't Genesis supposed to be a story that tells something true. Kind of look for the truth its trying to get over.
About the snake. In Genesis it says God changed the "whatever it was" into a new snake shape anyway.
isn't the order of Genesis a bit like evolution. Stuff in th esea leading to animals then humans last of all.
OK I know thats all a bit simple sounding when it muust be very complicated but just an idea.

[Spooky_Eli]

Ok so new to all this religion stuff. Done some stuff in RE lessons though so.....Isn't Genesis supposed to be a story that tells something true. Kind of look for the truth its trying to get over.
About the snake. In Genesis it says God changed the "whatever it was" into a new snake shape anyway.
isn't the order of Genesis a bit like evolution. Stuff in th esea leading to animals then humans last of all.
OK I know thats all a bit simple sounding when it muust be very complicated but just an idea.

Genesis's interpretation generally falls into three camps, the one camp you've described, the evolution has nothing to do with it camp and the "its all a metaphor camp, the last being the stupidist, and your description the most sane.

howeverrrr, in Genesis God creates everything BEFORE he says let there be light(aka makes the big bang) soooooo

[Adamant]

Genesis's interpretation generally falls into three camps, the one camp you've described, the evolution has nothing to do with it camp and the "its all a metaphor camp, the last being the stupidist, and your description the most sane.

howeverrrr, in Genesis God creates everything BEFORE he says let there be light(aka makes the big bang) soooooo
Just checked in a Bible - just been given one by my neighbour who goes to church-(Thank God that Genesis is easy to find). My version says he made the sun and moon later than some stuff but said "let there be light" right at the start.

[Spooky_Eli]

Just checked in a Bible - just been given one by my neighbour who goes to church-(Thank God that Genesis is easy to find). My version says he made the sun and moon later than some stuff but said "let there be light" right at the start.


Genesis 1:3 *then, God said, "Let ther be light" and there was light.*
Genesis 1:1 *in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:2 *now the earth wasformless and empty, darkness covered the surface of the watery depths and the Spirit of God was hovoring over the surface of the waters.*

[Adamant]

Genesis 1:6 *then, God said, "Let ther be light" and there was light.*
Genesis 1:1 *in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:2 *now the earth wasformless and empty, darkness covered the surface of the watery depths and the Spirit of God was hovoring over the surface of the waters.*

Oh see what you mean. I thought the first couple of verses were like a chapter heading or introduction. Note to self. Never argue with an expert.:whoops:

[Spooky_Eli]

Oh see what you mean. I thought the first couple of verses were like a chapter heading or introduction. Note to self. Never argue with an expert.:whoops:
its ok, i've been being dragged to church since i was 8 so

[Falcons_11]

Happy to see that we have several Sts. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas and Athanasius here.

[Oscar-V3.0]

Happy to see that we have several Sts. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas and Athanasius here.

You just forget the greatest of em all :rolleyes:

...

St Oscar, yours truly... :D

[thewilddog]

God planting evidence to trick us, that must be it, because it couldn't possibly be that the book of genesis is just made up shit and that evolution is proving that.
We.actually dont have THAT MUCH evidence. Media makes us think we have more than we really do. Read icons of evolution to see how little that amount is
-thewilddog
avid debatist for christ

[Snowfox]

Here i want to discuss about book of Genesis (Adam and Eve, tower of Babilon...).

Recently i've been thinking a lot about evolution and also about Adam and Eve.
I have quit good explanation. When God started talking to Moses he couldn't have just said that he did evolution that he made all the rules of physic and chemistry (all molecules and atoms , reaction...) . I mean i am pretty sure people of bronze age who lived in tents and were hunter wouldn't understand something so complex. He gave us time to find out this stuff by ourself.

But now i am wandering why do we have to get baptised if there was probably no Adam and Eve at all and it was just a story for old nations (their lack of knowledge and understandment) . Probably it is to show the connection between God and people and to show that we care about him. Maybe to withdraw our animal side (since we developed from primats) ?

At same point i am also wandering if evolution is true. We have a lot of evidence but still... God is almighty so he could just create all the evidence to trick us. No one knows no one saw this --> evolution and also Adam and Eve.

God does not trick. Its Satan who tricks us.
I see Genesis as allegory. But on other hand there had to be logically first man and woman. Species evolve from somewhere but at some point there is mutation and new specie is born. You have heard about egg and chicken thing? And i see it as true since what good would be talking to bronze age person about atoms etc.
It would be just as fruitless as talking to mattsmith48 about anything in general and when he/she doesnt understand I would switch to finnish´to try to make him/her understand. Just wouldnt work. So using language they understand is logical.

[mattsmith48]

We.actually dont have THAT MUCH evidence. Media makes us think we have more than we really do. Read icons of evolution to see how little that amount is
-thewilddog
avid debatist for christ

Going after the media is my thing don't steal my bit.

God does not trick. Its Satan who tricks us.

You're right about that, God does not trick people, he murders them.

I see Genesis as allegory. But on other hand there had to be logically first man and woman. Species evolve from somewhere but at some point there is mutation and new specie is born. You have heard about egg and chicken thing? And i see it as true since what good would be talking to bronze age person about atoms etc.
It would be just as fruitless as talking to mattsmith48 about anything in general and when he/she doesnt understand I would switch to finnish´to try to make him/her understand. Just wouldnt work. So using language they understand is logical.

That's kinda insulting

[Jake445]

So far it looks like the classical "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" debate.

[lliam]

Will I ever get it, why those, who claim to believers need and talk always about evidence? Because faith needs no such a thing like evidence.

Those who have faith are believers. And those who know are knowers. A believer who knows is therfore a paradox. But despite everything, the wise knows that the truth isn't just knowledge, but is also faith. Belief in knowledge and knowledge in faith.

[Snowfox]

mattsmith48 what is so insulting?

[Oscar-V3.0]

Because faith needs no such a thing like evidence.

Then what are we supposed to believe when science says monkeys progressively mutated into men, and faith says man was created by God in one day?