north korea

[Kolchak]

So do you think we will get anywhere with North Kores

[Tim the Enchanter]

Yes, no, maybe, so

[NewLeafsFan]

I think that the upcoming meetings are nothing more than a trap. Nothing is new. North Korea has stated for years that they are in favour of denuclearization provided that the Americans follow suit. Now everyone's acting like Kim wanting denuclearization is headline news. He's just buying time.

[Alumni]

Eh, I wouldn't call on it. Kim Jong-un and the United States have a hard relationship.

[Jinglebottom]

The VT Daily Chronicle :arrow: Ramblings of the Wise.

Since this is a debate and not news, it should go here.

[ShineintheDark]

If Trump stays out of it and the new Secretary of State is competent, I'm sure some sort of arrangement will be reached. Will it immediately solve absolutely everything and make NK and the US besties? No. But it may succeed to reducing tensions between the North and South as well as possibly open up NK to international trade. As said above, mutual denuclearisation WILL be requested by the Kim regime and, unless the Trump Administration is willing to promise that, I doubt things will go far.

[mattsmith48]

If Trump stays out of it and the new Secretary of State is competent, I'm sure some sort of arrangement will be reached. Will it immediately solve absolutely everything and make NK and the US besties? No. But it may succeed to reducing tensions between the North and South as well as possibly open up NK to international trade. As said above, mutual denuclearisation WILL be requested by the Kim regime and, unless the Trump Administration is willing to promise that, I doubt things will go far.

Kim doesn't care about the US's nukes he just doesn't want the US to do to him what they did to the dictators in the Middle East. He will give up his nukes when the US guarantees him they won't try to overthrow or kill him.

[Stronk Serb]

Kim doesn't care about the US's nukes he just doesn't want the US to do to him what they did to the dictators in the Middle East. He will give up his nukes when the US guarantees him they won't try to overthrow or kill him.

The thing is, he never would believe them. I mean the US backed Saddam Hussein, and then they overthrew him. He has no reason to believe anything the US says.

[mattsmith48]

The thing is, he never would believe them. I mean the US backed Saddam Hussein, and then they overthrew him. He has no reason to believe anything the US says.

That's why you need China to get involve in the negotiation and have them do the policing and be the deterrent to the US from invading.

[ShineintheDark]

The US hasn't been proven to be trustworthy with deals recently. Iran has pretty much stayed within the confines of its own deal, as verified by the UN and EU but that doesn't stop Donny from publically lambasting them and threatening to withdraw.

[mattsmith48]

The US hasn't been proven to be trustworthy with deals recently. Iran has pretty much stayed within the confines of its own deal, as verified by the UN and EU but that doesn't stop Donny from publically lambasting them and threatening to withdraw.

Don't you listen when President Stable Genius talks, Obama is the one who got the Iran deal so it must automatically be bad.

[Human]

Maybe very slowly, but the only snap solution would be an invasion and toppling the government. Obviously that has MANY flaws on its own, so many that it isn't justified to invade them without provocation.

It's unlikely that diplomacy is going to solve anything, we might get rid of their nuclear weapons one day but it's still going to be a dictatorship with very bad human rights. But for now it's the only real solution as you can't ignore them completely.

I'm very interested in North Korea, and I plan to visit it one day. One thing that gives me hope is that the majority of the citizens of North Korea aren't starving anymore, and in general their health has increased a lot. North Korea from a non-biased perspective is a pretty middle ranked country for the health of their citizens, a great improvement from the 90s. Maybe that's all we can hope for, that despite the massive human rights issues life will just become more bearable for the citizens themselves. Obviously blockades and trade sanctions aren't impacting the upper brass of North Korea, it's just a token political move because no matter how much you choke the country the leaders will get their money, food and goods somehow. The only ones negatively affected are the ones negatively affected by the dictatorship themselves. So it's a very complicated issue without a single clear solution.

[lliam]

Don't you listen when President Stable Genius talks, Obama is the one who got the Iran deal so it must automatically be bad.


https://picload.org/image/dapiaill/whaaat.jpg

[mattsmith48]

Maybe very slowly, but the only snap solution would be an invasion and toppling the government. Obviously that has MANY flaws on its own, so many that it isn't justified to invade them without provocation.

It's unlikely that diplomacy is going to solve anything, we might get rid of their nuclear weapons one day but it's still going to be a dictatorship with very bad human rights. But for now it's the only real solution as you can't ignore them completely.

I'm very interested in North Korea, and I plan to visit it one day. One thing that gives me hope is that the majority of the citizens of North Korea aren't starving anymore, and in general their health has increased a lot. North Korea from a non-biased perspective is a pretty middle ranked country for the health of their citizens, a great improvement from the 90s. Maybe that's all we can hope for, that despite the massive human rights issues life will just become more bearable for the citizens themselves. Obviously blockades and trade sanctions aren't impacting the upper brass of North Korea, it's just a token political move because no matter how much you choke the country the leaders will get their money, food and goods somehow. The only ones negatively affected are the ones negatively affected by the dictatorship themselves. So it's a very complicated issue without a single clear solution.

You can't go around start overthrowing dictators it rarely if ever make things better for the population. Just look at the Middle East. If you get them to give up their nukes you can stop the sanctions and that will help the population a lot. Those sanctions have only affected them not Kim Jong Un which is why they didn't work.

[Snowfox]

You can't go around start overthrowing dictators it rarely if ever make things better for the population. Just look at the Middle East. If you get them to give up their nukes you can stop the sanctions and that will help the population a lot. Those sanctions have only affected them not Kim Jong Un which is why they didn't work.

So Germany after Hitler became worse place.
At least western part became quite well of. In east they just got another dictator.

But I know that you are from DIRC (Dystopian Islamistic Republic of Canadastan) such smalll detail can be forgotten.

[PlasmaHam]

Maybe very slowly, but the only snap solution would be an invasion and toppling the government. Obviously that has MANY flaws on its own, so many that it isn't justified to invade them without provocation.

It's unlikely that diplomacy is going to solve anything, we might get rid of their nuclear weapons one day but it's still going to be a dictatorship with very bad human rights. But for now it's the only real solution as you can't ignore them completely.

Agreed. Peace and diplomacy is always a preferred solution, but in the case of NK it won't get us very far. Unless there is a major change in leadership over there, I don't see the North Korean government seriously considering diplomatic compromises with other powers. War may just be the best choice.

Of course, the biggest obstacle to any war with North Korea is China. Despite distancing themselves from NK in recent years, the Chinese have still pledged to defend NK in case of an American first-strike. Having a war between the two largest super-powers in the world is far from ideal. But even if China doesn't join the war, like they apparently wouldn't if NK strikes first, there are difficulties. I doubt South Korea and Japan would appreciate having an armed conflict between two nuclear powers in their backyards. And any invasion would result in a large loss of life, especially if biological and chemical weapons are deployed by the North Koreans.

Right now, the best solution might be to focus our diplomatic attention on China. China is the biggest backer on NK, though in recent years that relationship has been strained. If the US and other powers could persuade China to start taking action against NK, then that might just be enough to get the North Koreans to seriously consider diplomacy. But as long as there is Chinese support, I don't see that happening.

You can't go around start overthrowing dictators it rarely if ever make things better for the population. Just look at the Middle East. If you get them to give up their nukes you can stop the sanctions and that will help the population a lot. Those sanctions have only affected them not Kim Jong Un which is why they didn't work. Typically I would agree with you. However, you must recognize that there are considerable differences between the Far East and Middle East. The Middle East is filled with Islamic theocracies and relatively poor/weak nations, almost all of whom don't want or have the capacity to help the US. The Far East consists of three of the strongest economic powers in the world, two of which having very close relations with the USA. One of the biggest problems that occurred in the Middle East is that no other regional power would help the USA establish and legitimize the government. That would simply not be the case in North Korea (more like just "Korea" at that point)

[Human]

So Germany after Hitler became worse place.
At least western part became quite well of. In east they just got another dictator.

But I know that you are from DIRC (Dystopian Islamistic Republic of Canadastan) such smalll detail can be forgotten.

Germany is different, as it was a huge power which decided to invade loads of countries grabbing land and was willing to war with the West. North Korea hasn't done the same, the North Korean leadership might seem 'idiotic' from our perspective but everything is carefully planned out, I can guarantee it, they're not stupid enough to go to war and risk ending up like Ghadaffi.

[Turbofan explosion]

I am quite surprised that Kim Jong Un invited Donald Trump to a meeting with him.

[rioo]

I read the news that Kim finally agree to stepping his feet to South Korea and agree to turn off all the nuclear weapon he have.
It could be new hope for both Korea

[lliam]

... assuming that South Korea surrenders longterms.