The truth about Circumcision.

[ChaseDakoda]

https://www.yourwholebaby.org/time-ran-out/[/URL]

This artical is the truth from parents, not teens that don't have the facts.

If your pro circumcision please read it all.
Were you ever told if you had complications as a newborn baby ?

Please read this articak, as I am sure no one will respond.

[Ethan19]

I'm sorry, this really? This is as credible as Wikipedia. Teens who don't know facts - you don't know the facts clearly, so speak for yourself in that case not others. This random mother's sob story alike.

This is literally the dumbest argument that could be proposed to be anti something. Especially with an impressively pathetic source. By the age of 18 I would have expected your school to teach you what a decent source is. She has no credentials, no proof and no reliability; nor does the website.

It's the same stupid argument time and time again with weak sources or pathetic arguments from people who clearly couldn't 'hack' wording a decent argument. This is as dumb as the mutilation argument.

Just because you don't like it, understand it or want it, doesn't mean it's not right to do. It's a childish and stupid thing to be so bothered by, having an aversion so strong to something like this definitely makes you think you've lived a very care free life. The thing you kick the biggest fuss up about is a foreskin, fml.

[Tim the Enchanter]

I'm sorry, this really? This is as credible as Wikipedia. Teens who don't know facts - you don't know the facts clearly, so speak for yourself in that case not others. This random mother's sob story alike.

This is literally the dumbest argument that could be proposed to be anti something. Especially with an impressively pathetic source. By the age of 18 I would have expected your school to teach you what a decent source is. She has no credentials, no proof and no reliability; nor does the website.

It's the same stupid argument time and time again with weak sources or pathetic arguments from people who clearly couldn't 'hack' wording a decent argument. This is as dumb as the mutilation argument.

Just because you don't like it, understand it or want it, doesn't mean it's not right to do. It's a childish and stupid thing to be so bothered by, having an aversion so strong to something like this definitely makes you think you've lived a very care free life. The thing you kick the biggest fuss up about is a foreskin, fml.

My man haha.

[Turbofan explosion]

Child circumcision has been banned in some parts of California for many reasons. Female circumcision has been banned in many parts of the world including the United States. But why not male circumcision?

[ChaseDakoda]

I'm sorry, this really? This is as credible as Wikipedia. Teens who don't know facts - you don't know the facts clearly, so speak for yourself in that case not others. This random mother's sob story alike.

This is literally the dumbest argument that could be proposed to be anti something. Especially with an impressively pathetic source. By the age of 18 I would have expected your school to teach you what a decent source is. She has no credentials, no proof and no reliability; nor does the website.

It's the same stupid argument time and time again with weak sources or pathetic arguments from people who clearly couldn't 'hack' wording a decent argument. This is as dumb as the mutilation argument.

Just because you don't like it, understand it or want it, doesn't mean it's not right to do. It's a childish and stupid thing to be so bothered by, having an aversion so strong to something like this definitely makes you think you've lived a very care free life. The thing you kick the biggest fuss up about is a foreskin, fml.

I would appreciate you stop critasizing me. One of my teachers showed me this. He knows these people.

If you dont know the truth, please don't comment, your wasting space and notes to moderators about you.

[Ethan19]

I would appreciate you stop critasizing me. One of my teachers showed me this. He knows these people.

If you dont know the truth, please don't comment, your wasting space and notes to moderators about you.

I'd question my teacher's ability to teach if they showed me this. Unless it was philosophy and a debate. I'm criticizing you and you get salty, but you insulting people in other threads for circumcision and doing the same thing here is unreasonable? Pitiful.

I do know the truth. Don't make stupid posts based off feeble sources made for some stupid self righteous reason.

[CoryW]

We can argue about this til we are old people but you can't change someone else's opion on being cut or uncut.
So why don't we drop it and all get along.

[ChaseDakoda]

I'd question my teacher's ability to teach if they showed me this. Unless it was philosophy and a debate. I'm criticizing you and you get salty, but you insulting people in other threads for circumcision and doing the same thing here is unreasonable? Pitiful.

I do know the truth. Don't make stupid posts based off feeble sources made for some stupid self righteous reason.

I am not going to argue, I know what i printed is the truth.

And just so you know, I got this from VT


Dear ChaseDakoda,

You have received a warning at Virtual Teen Forums.

Reason:
-------
Disobeying Staff Member(s)

Hello, I am notifying you that you’re receiving an official warning for disobeying staff members. You have been warned previously about harassing and starting fights with other members, yet you continue to do so. Stop with the uncessarh and rude comments, and don’t pick fights with others. If you continue to break rules, you will receive an infraction and eventually end up with your account frozen or banned. Read the FAQ and use common sense.

~Mars
-------

Warnings serve as a reminder to you of the forum's rules, which you are expected to understand and follow.

All the best,
Virtual Teen Forums


HAPPY?

[Tim the Enchanter]

I am not going to argue, I know what i printed is the truth.

And just so you know, I got this from VT


Dear ChaseDakoda,

You have received a warning at Virtual Teen Forums.

Reason:
-------
Disobeying Staff Member(s)

Hello, I am notifying you that you’re receiving an official warning for disobeying staff members. You have been warned previously about harassing and starting fights with other members, yet you continue to do so. Stop with the uncessarh and rude comments, and don’t pick fights with others. If you continue to break rules, you will receive an infraction and eventually end up with your account frozen or banned. Read the FAQ and use common sense.

~Mars
-------

Warnings serve as a reminder to you of the forum's rules, which you are expected to understand and follow.

All the best,
Virtual Teen Forums


HAPPY?

I'd question my teacher's ability to teach if they showed me this. Unless it was philosophy and a debate. I'm criticizing you and you get salty, but you insulting people in other threads for circumcision and doing the same thing here is unreasonable? Pitiful.

I do know the truth. Don't make stupid posts based off feeble sources made for some stupid self righteous reason.

Alrighty, our points have been made and I feel it's time we all be friends.

[jamie_n5]

Great article! I think it's something that every parent should read. Thanks so much for posting it here.

[Turbofan explosion]

I would appreciate you stop critasizing me. One of my teachers showed me this. He knows these people.

If you dont know the truth, please don't comment, your wasting space and notes to moderators about you.

I am not going to argue, I know what i printed is the truth.

And just so you know, I got this from VT


Dear ChaseDakoda,

You have received a warning at Virtual Teen Forums.

Reason:
-------
Disobeying Staff Member(s)

Hello, I am notifying you that you’re receiving an official warning for disobeying staff members. You have been warned previously about harassing and starting fights with other members, yet you continue to do so. Stop with the uncessarh and rude comments, and don’t pick fights with others. If you continue to break rules, you will receive an infraction and eventually end up with your account frozen or banned. Read the FAQ and use common sense.

~Mars
-------

Warnings serve as a reminder to you of the forum's rules, which you are expected to understand and follow.

All the best,
Virtual Teen Forums


HAPPY?

I think we should stop arguing. Whatever is your opinion, don't argue about it here. Express your opinion, but just don't argue.

Alrighty, our points have been made and I feel it's time we all be friends.

I agree

[ChaseDakoda]

Great article! I think it's something that every parent should read. Thanks so much for posting it here.

Thanks

If we talked about abortion, do u think we would argue?

I was almost circumcised, don't I got a right to express my feelings? The boys on here that were cut at birth, they do not remember what happened, so how can they promote it?

[Ethan19]

If we talked about abortion, do u think we would argue?

I was almost circumcised, don't I got a right to express my feelings? The boys on here that were cut at birth, they do not remember what happened, so how can they promote it?

Yes.

As for the question I'll revert back to what the mods said. Your argument in itself is flawed, this is tragic now.

[ChaseDakoda]

And i cant respond, you tiok advantage if me.

[Tim the Enchanter]

And i cant respond, you tiok advantage if me.

Please sir calm down. You're scaring the children haha.

[CoryW]

Every one need to hug now

[JamesCam]

every one need to hug now

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[Hermes]

I'm sorry, this really? This is as credible as Wikipedia. ...

The woman who wrote that articles knows what she did and how she feels and that is what the article is about. No-one can know how she feels better than she does so there can be no other stronger source for how she feels.

Granted, that she feels rotten for having had her first son circumcised and better for having not had it done to her second son does not, of itself, make it a bad idea if there is some convincing overriding medical reason but we all know there is not.

If you disagree with that, as you have set yourself up as the expert on finding reliable sources of information, perhaps you could enlighten us on any such source that supports your position.

[Ethan19]

If you disagree with that, as you have set yourself up as the expert on finding reliable sources of information, perhaps you could enlighten us on any such source that supports your position.

Have done so in previous threads, you didn't bother then, clearly you with bother now. The argument for no medical reasons, has not been determined to not be a reason. If I remember correctly the article you had last them was just as good as this.

[Hermes]

Have done so in previous threads, you didn't bother then, clearly you with bother now.

What am I supposed to have not bothered to do? Search through everything you've every posted for some gem that supports your argument! If you have references to hand why not just post them. I think the reason you don't post any links to reputable documents that support your position is that there are none. Instead you attempt to belittle what other people say.

The argument for no medical reasons, has not been determined to not be a reason.

The UN convention on the rights of the child considers that parents may authorise doctors to carry out diagnosis and treatment. Anything else is out of order so as soon as a convincing medical argument for circumcision ceases to apply then it is an infringement of the rights of the child to do it.

[ChaseDakoda]

The woman who wrote that articles knows what she did and how she feels and that is what the article is about. No-one can know how she feels better than she does so there can be no other stronger source for how she feels.

Granted, that she feels rotten for having had her first son circumcised and better for having not had it done to her second son does not, of itself, make it a bad idea if there is some convincing overriding medical reason but we all know there is not.

If you disagree with that, as you have set yourself up as the expert on finding reliable sources of information, perhaps you could enlighten us on any such source that supports your position.

Hermes
Thanks for the things you said. I have been warned, some guts are setting me up to be banned, I am laying low and I WILL find the proof you requested. There are plenty NoCirc organizations I can get kelp from and they have the statistics I can prove a lot if people wrong, only because they don't know exactly why there partners circumcised them.

Thanks, and I hope I have your support.

[Alumni]

So one mother had a bad experience because of inept doctors and now she's crying wolf?
I don't get it, how does that create a significant difference in another person's experience?

It's like if you and 1000 other people go and get a flu shot and nothing happens, but when I go and get one, I end up having an allergic reaction because of the doctor's failure to prepare the antibiotic properly. I'm going to be heated about the topic and you're going to not mind it.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that she was highly influenced to get her son circumcised due to the people she was raised around, but at the end of the day, it's her son. She had the option not to get him circumcised and she fell under peer pressure.

I don't blame parents for circumcising their children. If that's what makes them feel comfortable, so be it.

Roughly 110 children in the United States die from a circumcision (at birth) due to infections or blood loss. Children without foreskins tend to have a less sensitive penis.

And even with that, the rates of children being circumcised are dropping immensely, from 65% in 2002 to 32% in 2009.

So yes, the ideologies behind circumcisions are changing. Less children are having to bare this situation.

But even with that, just because something happened to one person doesn't mean it'll happen to another.
This woman was just unfortunate to have a doctor who rushed the procedure.

[Hermes]

Hermes
Thanks for the things you said. I have been warned, some guts are setting me up to be banned, I am laying low and I WILL find the proof you requested. There are plenty NoCirc organizations I can get kelp from and they have the statistics I can prove a lot if people wrong, only because they don't know exactly why there partners circumcised them.

To be clear I wasn't challenging you to come up with evidence. It is Ethan who keeps bleating on about sources.

[ChaseDakoda]

What am I supposed to have not bothered to do? Search through everything you've every posted for some gem that supports your argument! If you have references to hand why not just post them. I think the reason you don't post any links to reputable documents that support your position is that there are none. Instead you attempt to belittle what other people say.



The UN convention on the rights of the child considers that parents may authorise doctors to carry out diagnosis and treatment. Anything else is out of order so as soon as a convincing medical argument for circumcision ceases to apply then it is an infringement of the rights of the child to do it.

Keep beleaving thst. I hope you have all daughter's, thank God circumcision is illeagle for girls in USA

[Hermes]

SThis woman was just unfortunate to have a doctor who rushed the procedure.

Certainly there a limit to what you can learn from a sample size of one and we can't know if her experience was typical or an exception. You're suggesting it is an exception, she's inviting us to think it is typical. The only way to be sure is to ask more people who have experience of caring for a newborn who has just had it done. It's no use asking a bunch of fellow teens because it has healed by then.

You compare with having a flu jab but the difference is vaccination programmes generally, including the flu jab, are found to have proven benefit. Vaccinations are not given against all possible illnesses but against serious illnesses. Polio leaves people disabled. Flu kills people. Rubella harms the unborn child in pregnant girls and women. The benefit vs. risk is much stronger for vaccination than for circumcision which is why most of the world do vaccinate but don't circumcise.

[lolshanedawson]

I'm confused. I read the article. What is "The truth about Circumcision"? Like what is now being discovered other than the fact that one woman had a bad experience.

[Ethan19]

What am I supposed to have not bothered to do? Search through everything you've every posted for some gem that supports your argument! If you have references to hand why not just post them. I think the reason you don't post any links to reputable documents that support your position is that there are none. Instead you attempt to belittle what other people say.



The UN convention on the rights of the child considers that parents may authorise doctors to carry out diagnosis and treatment. Anything else is out of order so as soon as a convincing medical argument for circumcision ceases to apply then it is an infringement of the rights of the child to do it.

Top paragraph: I've mentioned them in a discussion with you and one other before in the Iceland thread or a similar one. I do have them, and have provided them you just ignore.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/130/3/e756.short
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/382695
https://muse.jhu.edu/article/578428/summary

Three pretty easy links read, I like the abstracts and figures. As for belittling, when people have no clue what they are talking about or how to research it and form an ill-informed bias opinion, and don't listen to facts or you know, science and logic. Yeah I'll be condescending, or I could just dumb down and talk on their level. But, there's a reason I made it to the uni I did, and it's not by being stupid.

Bottom paragraph: So you're saying it is illegal to circumcise new-borns anywhere the UN law is dictates - I'll call BS.

Don't worry I've written an article on sources now, help yourself to it :)

[Ethan19]

So one mother had a bad experience because of inept doctors and now she's crying wolf?
I don't get it, how does that create a significant difference in another person's experience?

This is exactly true, a sample size of one means nothing. With a article filled with manipulative language also.

[ChaseDakoda]

Health insurance companys used to pay for a son to be circumcised, now they don't. I know why, do you?

And this all started with a boy from a country that doors not circumcised there boys in there state, he was going at age 14 to another country to get cut. The thread was lije: Should I get a Hi Or Lo cut. And he wanted it only for Cosmetic look.

[ChaseDakoda]

Mum opened nappy to find son had been circumcised
29 June 2017 Nottingham
Share this with Email Share this with Facebook Share this with Twitter Share this with Whatsapp
Image copyright GETTY IMAGES Generic baby having nappy changed
Image caption The mother said she "felt hysterical" and had to leave the room after opening her son's nappy (stock image)
A mother has described the distress of discovering her baby son had been circumcised without her consent.

The woman, from Nottingham, said she opened her son's nappy to find him covered in blood - and was so distraught she had to leave the room.

She has battled for four years for authorities to take action.

Three people have now been arrested, including a 61-year-old man - thought to be a doctor - on suspicion of grievous bodily harm with intent.

"I opened the nappy and I ended up having to leave the room because I felt hysterical," said the mother, who did not want to be identified.

"It was just awful really, it wasn't very nice, there was all blood there and stuff."

'Boys not protected'
The boy was circumcised in July 2013 when he was three months old, and apparently staying with his paternal grandparents, who are Muslim.

His mother originally contacted social services, then contacted Nottinghamshire Police on 24 November 2014.

There was an investigation but the force deemed it not to be a criminal matter, and the case was referred to the General Medical Council.

The mother later got help from the anti-circumcision group Men Do Complain and leading human rights lawyer Saimo Chahal QC, who wrote to Nottinghamshire Police.

According to the British Medical Association, male circumcision in the UK is generally assumed to be lawful provided there is valid consent .

Image copyright GETTY IMAGES Saimo Chahal QC
Image caption Police reopened the investigation after human rights lawyer Saimo Chahal QC wrote to them
However, the mother believes it amounts to MGM or "male genital mutilation", and should be viewed in the same way as female genital mutilation (FGM).

"It's even illegal to dock dogs' tails. I've come home crying my eyes out thinking a dog has got more rights than my child.

"There's something seriously not right with it all. You can protect a dog, you can protect a girl, but not a boy."

After the letter from Ms Chahal, police reopened the investigation and arrested three suspects, including the 61-year-old man, on 21 June.

The other two suspects - 44-year-old man and 47-year-old woman believed to be the boy's paternal grandparents - have been arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to commit grievous bodily harm.

line
About circumcision
Image copyright GETTY IMAGES A child is laid down to be circumcised
Male circumcision is the removal of the foreskin - a sensitive fold of skin and other tissue that covers the head of the penis
Circumcision was promoted as a way of discouraging masturbation in the past, and was regarded as clean and hygienic
Circumcision rates in Europe are low, and it is mostly confined to the Jewish and Muslim communities
Three-quarters of American adult men are circumcised - but the number of newborns having the operation is falling as the anti-circumcision movement grows
Some argue there is a medical case for circumcision, to reduce the risk of urinary tract infections and penile cancer
"Intactivists" argue that circumcision has negative health effects and reduces sexual pleasure for both partners
Read more: Circumcision, the ultimate parenting dilemma

line
Police said all three suspects had been released pending further investigation.

In the years since the circumcision, the mother said her son has suffered from recurring infections, and his penis regularly becomes inflamed and sore.

"It looks like he's been half circumcised is the only way to describe it. There's half the skin, it's not all the way over.

"It swells up, it gets red and a little bit sore in places."

She has been given cream to apply to her son and told he may need further surgery when he is older.

Following media coverage about the case, an experienced urologist based in Cambridge has offered to assess the boy and see what can be done to help him.

"When he first started talking he did say a lot that it hurt," said the mother.

"Now he doesn't really say much because it draws attention to it and he's getting a bit more private."

'Lack of empathy'
The boy's mother said the circumcision has affected her, as well as her son.

"As a new mum I didn't know what I was doing with a baby anyway, but now I had that added worry on my mind," she said.

"I was really upset about it. It didn't really get much better from there, it's just been ongoing really."

She said a lot of people have failed to empathise with her and her son.

"Even a couple of police officers have made remarks like 'Oh my husband is circumcised, I think it's better'. Or 'Oh they are tougher than they look, it will toughen him up'. It's just silly little comments like that. It's just heartbreaking.

"I wrote to MPs and they basically shoved me off. Everybody you speak to it's like speaking to a brick wall."

Image copyright GETTY IMAGES Costumed young woman holds large sign about circumcision saying 'Foreskin is not a birth defect' in the Mardi Gras parade on February 7, 2016 in downtown Asheville, NC
Image caption The mother supports a global movement against circumcision, and hopes her son's case will raise awareness
The mother said she is relieved that action is finally being taken, and hopes the case will raise awareness.

"I just can't believe that we've actually got to this point now and it's taken four years," said the mother.

"Nobody was listening when I spoke about it and now it's being acknowledged worldwide.

"If anything good can come of what's happened to my son it's raising a little bit more awareness to the suffering that comes, and giving people that are thinking of circumcising their children a bit of understanding about what they are doing."

[lolshanedawson]

'Boys not protected'
The boy was circumcised in July 2013 when he was three months old, and apparently staying with his paternal grandparents, who are Muslim.

sounds like the grandparents fault to me... i dont think that a doctor like kidnapped the baby and chopped off his foreskin. ur giving random reaching articles with no real reliable source (that i can tell of), whereas ethan is giving medical papers from reputable journals which actually took an unbiased in-depth look into circumcision. im not denying the questionable ethics with circumcision but i think that some of the things posted on here have not been reliable.

[ChaseDakoda]

sounds like the grandparents fault to me... i dont think that a doctor like kidnapped the baby and chopped off his foreskin. ur giving random reaching articles with no real reliable source (that i can tell of), whereas ethan is giving medical papers from reputable journals which actually took an unbiased in-depth look into circumcision. im not denying the questionable ethics with circumcision but i think that some of the things posted on here have not been reliable.

Mine are reputable. I will not discuss where I got these from you can I view C go on the Internet for yourself and yes I have went to, nocirc.org. When I get their permission to publish the information they have you will be the 1st to know so stop criticizing me what I am posting is true it's hard to swallow and that's what I'm trying to prove that circumcision is wrong and the real truth is hard to swallow that is why you are writing negatively about me.

[Ethan19]

Mine are reputable. I will not discuss where I got these from you can I view C go on the Internet for yourself and yes I have went to, nocirc.org. When I get their permission to publish the information they have you will be the 1st to know so stop criticizing me what I am posting is true it's hard to swallow and that's what I'm trying to prove that circumcision is wrong and the real truth is hard to swallow that is why you are writing negatively about me.

It's true. Some people are beyond help...

[lolshanedawson]

Mine are reputable. I will not discuss where I got these from you can I view C go on the Internet for yourself and yes I have went to, nocirc.org. When I get their permission to publish the information they have you will be the 1st to know so stop criticizing me what I am posting is true it's hard to swallow and that's what I'm trying to prove that circumcision is wrong and the real truth is hard to swallow that is why you are writing negatively about me.

I'm not criticizing you specifically or writing negatively about you, but rather questioning what you're saying. I understand that circumcision is a complicated topic to talk about, but most pediatricians support and encourage it. Speaking of nocirc.org : American pediatrician Edgar Schoen, who was the chair of the American Academy of Pediatrics task-force on circumcision, has said, "These activist organizations, particularly NOCIRC, mainly using anecdotes and testimonials, have gained a good deal of media attention and have had a misguided influence in discouraging newborn circumcision, particularly in middle class educated parents."

Again, like I asked earlier with no reply, what is the real truth? That sometimes it bleeds?

[ChaseDakoda]

it's true. Some people are beyond help...

yes i am

[ChaseDakoda]

I'm not criticizing you specifically or writing negatively about you, but rather questioning what you're saying. I understand that circumcision is a complicated topic to talk about, but most pediatricians support and encourage it. Speaking of nocirc.org : American pediatrician Edgar Schoen, who was the chair of the American Academy of Pediatrics task-force on circumcision, has said, "These activist organizations, particularly NOCIRC, mainly using anecdotes and testimonials, have gained a good deal of media attention and have had a misguided influence in discouraging newborn circumcision, particularly in middle class educated parents."

Again, like I asked earlier with no reply, what is the real truth? That sometimes it bleeds?


I don't know you, I just turned 18. Your smarter than i am. I don't got all the facts, just experance, I thought that was good enough.
Look you want me to show you you the cure for the common cold, I can't. I also cannot convince you that it's bad to circumcised boys.

I am trying my best to answer your questions, this is new, and hsrd to prove, but BY GOD I WILL DIE TRYING TO PROVE I AM RIGHT.

[Dalcourt]

Since this thread is just used for fighting I'm closing it.
:locked: