School Walkouts and Marches [Archive]

Sailor Mars

February 21st, 2018, 10:08 PM

agreed. if its truly the politicians fault, then vote them out of office.
my time personally is better spent at school...learning.
I already know several people who are using this as an excuse just to get out of class.

The problem is that kids still in highschool or middle school can’t vote, so that’s not really an option. And a majority of the states where these incidents occur are Red states, so again, that doesn’t help.

And I know some kids that are going to use that excuse too, just to get out of class, but I’d rather they get out of class and end up in a march against gun violence than goof around in class.

It brings awareness, it makes our voices heard, and it shows that we’re not going to stand for these things any longer.

Uniquemind

February 21st, 2018, 10:10 PM

Sadly my school hasn’t planned anything, there’s been talk among students about the news but I think it hasn’t quite resonated with everyone, it’s too far away.

But I’m gonna donate and maybe write a letter to my congressmen to make sure he’s on the side of the issue I want him to be on. I’ve worked ahead in many of my classes in the last week and it’s just time I spent my mind on something that is gonna mean life and death for people like us.

I asked my parents to not give me a birthday party this year, instead I’m want those proceeds to go to this movement these kids are doing, and I was going to spend some babysitting money on clothes and a few phone and car accessories but that’s over with now. It’s not a small piece either, it’s close to $1000, I’m gonna donate to either victims funds or the movement once the media has left the issue to go quiet like they always do.

It’s not fair that adult bullies with corporate money coming out calling those Florida students “crisis actors”. Disgustingly lack of empathy; you too have heard these conspiracy theories right?

Sailor Mars

February 21st, 2018, 10:13 PM

Sadly my school hasn’t planned anything, there’s been talk among students about the news but I think it hasn’t quite resonated with everyone, it’s too far away.

But I’m gonna donate and maybe write a letter to my congressmen to make sure he’s on the side of the issue I want him to be on. I’ve worked ahead in many of my classes in the last week and it’s just time I spent my mind on something that is gonna mean life and death for people like us.

It’s not fair that adult bullies with corporate money coming out calling those Florida students “crisis actors”. Disgustingly lack of empathy; you too have heard these conspiracy theories right?

I’ve heard those theories and seen plenty of salty ass ppl saying shit about these kids. “Instead of snap chatting your peers getting shot, why didn’t you call 911?” (In response, a victim said they called 911 so many times that they don’t them to stop).

It’s fucking insane, and laughable that politicians that were bought out by the NRA are saying shit about kids being bought out to speak against guns...

Spooky_Eli

February 21st, 2018, 10:17 PM

It’s fucking insane, and laughable that politicians that were bought out by the NRA are saying shit about kids being bought out to speak against guns...
hmm, speaking of conspiracy theory's..

Sailor Mars

February 21st, 2018, 10:21 PM

hmm, speaking of conspiracy theory's..

so you’re going to tell me that politicians haven’t accepted massive donations from the NRA?... and are now saying that gun bans don’t work to prevent mass shootings?...

Uniquemind

February 21st, 2018, 10:22 PM

I’ve heard those theories and seen plenty of salty ass ppl saying shit about these kids. “Instead of snap chatting your peers getting shot, why didn’t you call 911?” (In response, a victim said they called 911 so many times that they don’t them to stop).

It’s fucking insane, and laughable that politicians that were bought out by the NRA are saying shit about kids being bought out to speak against guns...

The best thing that we can do as young people is to demonstrate our intelligence and that we are young people that are not the stereotypical whiners and how we analyze and solve political issues that are labyrinthine in nature.

We have to learn how challenge and debate, and research how people in Washington DC and in State governments get paid off.

I’m concerned the Florida young people are going to have this passion and when they realize how hard it is to fight gerrymandered districts to get politicians who oppose them out of office, they’re gonna mentally break.

Spooky_Eli

February 21st, 2018, 10:24 PM

so you’re going to tell me that politicians haven’t accepted massive donations from the NRA?... and are now saying that gun bans don’t work to prevent mass shootings?...
yes i am, the idea that the NRA owns the government is an insane idea, come down to my level for a moment, please humor me, it's insane

Sailor Mars

February 21st, 2018, 10:29 PM

yes i am, the idea that the NRA owns the government is an insane idea, come down to my level for a moment, please humor me, it's insane

I’m not going to say they “own” the government, but here you go

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-7PdCI2NawSgP1QE-cGYVYedetYqepR-4jBweaJyqFo/htmlview#gid=1782600961

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/19/politics/nra-pvf-contributions-florida-politicians/index.html

The NRA donated $11,438,118 to Donald Trump’s campaign, and $19,756,346 to groups opposing Hillary Clinton’s

Please refrain from making unnecessary comments though, if you don’t want your posts edited.

Uniquemind

February 21st, 2018, 10:40 PM

I wouldn’t say they own the government, but they’ve bought off a lot of influence, enough so that they can protect their bottom line.

Spooky_Eli

February 21st, 2018, 10:46 PM

I’m not going to say they “own” the government, but here you go

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-7PdCI2NawSgP1QE-cGYVYedetYqepR-4jBweaJyqFo/htmlview#gid=1782600961

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/19/politics/nra-pvf-contributions-florida-politicians/index.html

The NRA donated $11,438,118 to Donald Trump’s campaign, and $19,756,346 to groups opposing Hillary Clinton’s

Please refrain from making unnecessary comments though, if you don’t want your posts edited.your facts have no citations to back them up, so? you really think the Donald would be pro gun control if the NRA didn't pay him?

Sailor Mars

February 21st, 2018, 10:52 PM

your facts have no citations to back them up, so? you really think the Donald would be pro gun control if the NRA didn't pay him?

It is an undeniable fact that the NRA donates massive amounts of money to certain politicians. You can look it up easily, and I linked an article and a spreadsheet (that was linked by a different article). This is a fact. Politicians will admit to having accepted donations by the NRA. These are the same politicians that refuse to put stricter regulations on guns, and say that gun control won’t have an effect on mass murders and school shootings.

So you can sit there and say whatever you want to say, and stay ignorant because of idk? Pride or smth I guess? But I want to live, so there’s that.

Dalcourt

February 21st, 2018, 11:08 PM

your facts have no citations to back them up, so? you really think the Donald would be pro gun control if the NRA didn't pay him?

Well I guess he has to say something now due to pressure he receives from the public. If he really will do something or back down due to the NRA we have yet to see, right? This last idea was not to reduce weapons but increase them by arming high school teachers I have heard.

Anyway, back on topic.
I don't know if marches or sit ins make a difference in this case but at least it's better than just take for granted that we all have to live with this kind of fear.

To say protests like that are useless per see would be wrong. They can make a change just look at history all over the world.

So if you want a change you have to make sure your voice is heard and your face is seen. And the more often you do this the greater the chances that you are able to make a change in other people's mind.

NewLeafsFan

February 22nd, 2018, 12:00 AM

I'm a Canadian but I support the right of the 2nd amendment. There are many good reasons to own a gun including hunting. But there is no reason for anyone to own an assault rifle. What would you do with it other than kill somebody? If I'm missing something, plz correct me.

And no, the British aren't coming!

PlasmaHam

February 22nd, 2018, 01:07 AM

I think the whole thing is clearly just an emotional, irrational response to a tragedy, stoked by those who want to exploit it for political ends. Let's be honest, the vast majority of teenagers are not well informed on this issue. There are exceptions of course, but honestly the vast majority of students are just repeating whatever agenda their friends, parents, or the media has instilled in them.

The idea that the NRA is some sort of cabal that controls the government and doesn't represents actual Americans is just ridiculous. The NRA is not in the top 10 of lobbying groups, it isn't even in the top 50, which is the largest list I could find online. In fact, anti-gun groups like Soros and Priorities USA lobby considerably more than the NRA.

Nevermind the fact that the NRA is entirely supported by individual donations from millions of members. Contrasts that with most other lobbying groups, which typically get most of their wealth through corporate donations, billionaire backers, or forced union dues. So unless you want to start doing something about how unions and Soros owns Democrats, it seems really hypocritical to want to destroy the NRA because you falsely believe it owns the Republicans.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/16/nra-money-isnt-why-gun-control-efforts-are-failing-commentary.html

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php?cycle=ALL

I'm a Canadian but I support the right of the 2nd amendment. There are many good reasons to own a gun including hunting. But there is no reason for anyone to own an assault rifle. What would you do with it other than kill somebody? If I'm missing something, plz correct me.

Wild hog and wolf hunting often uses rapid fire weapons, as they are tough animals that often require multiple shots to put down and you really don't want to be fiddling with a manual reload while a pissed off 300lb boar is bearing down on you. They are also often used for smaller game, like rabbits, where you often need to take multiple shots to finally hit the animal.

And in reality, there are no assault rifles in the legal-market, at least ones not heavily regulated and controlled. AR-15s for instance, are not assault rifles, as they don't have selective fire (full-auto mode). Instead, they are grouped under "assault weapons" which is really just a meaningless term made up back in the 90s to refer to whatever guns politicians wanted to cast in a negative light. Assault rifles were banned from further production back in the 80s. The only way you can get an assault rifle is to by one made prior to 1986, which involves far more paperwork and background checks than your typical gun, and is really expensive.

And no, the British aren't coming!Sure, but to many the real threat is within. What if someday there becomes some tyrannical fascist leader in the USA, how then to fight back? That's the point of the 2nd Amendment, not to defend against foreign invasion, but to fight back against the tyranny of your our government, which is exactly what happened in 1775 when the American colonists decided enough was enough when dealing with the British. And ironically the whole war was started at Lexington and Concord, because the British were trying to take their guns to prevent an uprising.

And think I'm conspiratorial for believing that there is a possibility of an American dictatorship? Just look at the backlash against Trump, the lefties are constantly saying that he is just Hitler with a spray tan. Yet for some reason the exact same people are saying that the only people who should own guns is the government, which is lead by the same person they believe want to slaughter every minority in the country. #LiberalLogic

Sailor Mars

February 22nd, 2018, 01:38 AM

PlasmaHam
I think the whole thing is clearly just an emotional, irrational response to a tragedy, stoked by those who want to exploit it for political ends. Let's be honest, the vast majority of teenagers are not well informed on this issue. There are exceptions of course, but honestly the vast majority of students are just repeating whatever agenda their friends, parents, or the media has instilled in them.

Mm I don’t think that’s the case. For how long has America had to deal with mass shootings? School shootings? How many a year do we have compared to other countries? I think it’s great, awesome that these protests are happening. With social media being as big as it is now, it’s a good way to get connected and to start something. I think my (our?) generation is one of the most active and most informed in... like ever. How do you know who’s informed or not? How do you know that these kids can’t think for themselves? Ourselves? Do you seriously, honestly think that because of the media and because of their parents that were standing up? Seriously? And don’t get me started with the “exploit for political ends” bull. This isn’t a party vs party debate. This isn’t Democrats vs Republicans, no matter how much you try to spin it. This is “i want to be able to go to school and not worry about someone shooting up my classmates”. This is “i want to be able to go to a concert or a club without worrying about dying via mass gunfire.”

I don’t believe that the only people that should own guns are the government. I don’t think the NRA owns the government. Don’t shove words into someone’s mouth. I don’t want to ban guns. I want to make it harder for criminals or mentally unstable people to get guns. I want strict background checks and psychological evaluations. I want frequent checkups on legal gun owners. I want America safe again.

Dalcourt

February 22nd, 2018, 01:42 AM

And no, the British aren't coming!

Sorry, this really cracked me up...and even if they would be coming we could call the French for help, couldn't we? ;)
I really don't understand especially conservative people's paranoia and their feeling they have to defend themselves or their families from somecsort of enemies.

I see this whole thing as rather paradox.
They say protesting won't change anything so we don't need to protest. Fine.
At the same time they feel that if some well trained fascist army squad in full battle armor would kick down their front door they'll stand a chance against them with a hunting rifle.
I used to do shooting as a sport for years and I'm hunting but I don't think I could do much against someone who is really out to kill.
So I'd say since I'm no killer end of the day someone who is really out to get me will still have the higher ground no matter if I own a weapon or not.

Therefore marching for a change doesn't do a thing? Could be.
Doing this protest since it's now a "thing" that your peers and parents do. Yeah, sure this is the motivation for some.

But this clinging to old habits and this fear mongering of the same ol conservatives that government will get ya once you give up ya gun guess this is all there for exact the same reasons as the above - you are pressured into it by your peers group and family.

It's the same old game between liberals and conservatives. It is all about change vs. sticking to old habits.
And since most old things have been overthrown by an open and intellectual mind now, I guess this whole weapons issue will follow, too.
Maybe not today and maybe not next year but I feel the days are numbered.

Uniquemind

February 22nd, 2018, 03:42 AM

I’m gonna outright say that it’s a marriage of two concepts.

Both the individual candidate/politician themselves might believe a certain ideology, AND that groups like NRA and others seek out newbie candidates to both bolster pre-existing beliefs of that individual candidates AND that of the organization.

It is immature to suggest the process of getting “bought off” is a linear one direction flow.

The problem I have with arming teachers, is that teachers can lose emotional control, AND some schools have horrible dictatorial teachers...

I had a really bad elementary school female teacher, with a grumpy attitude who wanted silence in her classroom all the damn time and really exerted negative downward social pressure on all her students, and if you thought she treated girls badly you should have seen how she treated the rambunctious bunch of boys.

Based on the teaching methods teachers in 6th-10th trade, I realize how bad some teachers can be and they really shouldn’t be given guns either because their just as mentally nuts.

Also understand how there’s a conflict in a policy that arms teachers, but then under discrimination law does that mean teachers can’t have any mental health diagnosis condition on their medical records?

^ there’s a logical policy contradiction here with existing law.

So you have to really think deeply on issues like this, and not go for that quick and easy marketable pubic relations statement.

Spending money to fortify school walls and windows so they’re as bullet resistant as the best armored security vehicles....thats a partial-solution.

The creation of a armed specially trained security force per school, is another and I’m sure that’s a opportunity for job creation for former ex-military or police.

Simplifying the gun categorization system about what is considered auto, semi-auto, what modifications effectively serve as loop-holes around black and white legal terminology and updating background checks to be synchronized to what’s posted on social media posts so potential threatening messages to block a sale....these are all things that gonna cost $ but they’re worth it.

You have to choose between investing in safety and having a monetary debt, or a debt in each generations of Americans who should have peers by their side but aren’t because they were taken too soon.

Also I’ve rebutted the black market gun market debate....it’s not as easy as it looks, and also even the black market has to reply on manufacturers to make the weapons before they can then be stolen and sold underground. Also the average teen doesn’t have crypto currencies to pay for stuff underground anyway.

So these measures are worth trying and enacting.

NudistFun

February 22nd, 2018, 09:51 AM

protesting anything in such a way doesn't work imo, but each to his own

The Civil Rights movement would beg to differ.

However, as much I support the right of students to protest in such a way, I feel like they are protesting for the wrong reasons. The laws in place already failed them. They are asked daily to report to a location that is declared gun free, which has translated into "protection free".

Instead of appealing to politicians to save them via stricter gun laws, appeal for protection, appeal that the FBI and police actually do their jobs (They failed in many of these cases to investigate reports about the shooters before they became shooters) , appeal for an investigation into the legal pharmaceuticals many of these shooters are on and prescribed by doctors.

Stop the appeals to emotion and use logic.

Sailor Mars

February 22nd, 2018, 10:03 AM

The Civil Rights movement would beg to differ.

Agreed! Suffrage and women’s rights movements too.

As for your other points, it all ties back to strict policies. If there were strict background checks, psychological evaluations, frequent checkups, etc etc then that’s the police and that’s the authorities doing their job.

NudistFun

February 22nd, 2018, 10:10 AM

Agreed! Suffrage and women’s rights movements too.

As for your other points, it all ties back to strict policies. If there were strict background checks, psychological evaluations, frequent checkups, etc etc then that’s the police and that’s the authorities doing their job.

They didn't do their jobs already with the policies in place. He was reported 39 times, brought weapons to school, and assaulted a parent.

Nothing was done when legally it already should have.

The answer isn't MORE of something that didn't work. It is making what is in place work and holding those that fail to make it work responsible, criminally.

Sailor Mars

February 22nd, 2018, 10:16 AM

They didn't do their jobs already with the policies in place. He was reported 39 times, brought weapons to school, and assaulted a parent.

Nothing was done when legally it already should have.

The answer isn't MORE of something that didn't work. It is making what is in place work and holding those that fail to make it work responsible, criminally.

It’s not that it didn’t work. It’s that it wasn’t tried. I saw a video recently where a 13 year old kid walked around some shops and tried to buy several things: Alcohol, cigarettes, a porn magazine, and a scratch off. All of the cashiers waved him off and laughed, seeing how young he was. Then, he walks into a gun auction or whatever, 13 year old kid, and buys a gun in cash just like that. It’s not the police’s job at this point. It’s the laws put in place that allow this shit to happen. Later, sure, when stuff is reported then it’s just clear negligence, but why is it happening in the first place?

I’m fucking glad that my peers are standing up for themselves, and standing up for this BS. 17 kids died a week ago. You know what politicians said? That the kids standing up were bought out to speak against gun violence. That whacking off and porno was more deadly than a fucking tool designed to kill.

NudistFun

February 22nd, 2018, 10:26 AM

It’s not that it didn’t work. It’s that it wasn’t tried. I saw a video recently where a 13 year old kid walked around some shops and tried to buy several things: Alcohol, cigarettes, a porn magazine, and a scratch off. All of the cashiers waved him off and laughed, seeing how young he was. Then, he walks into a gun auction or whatever, 13 year old kid, and buys a gun in cash just like that. It’s not the police’s job at this point. It’s the laws put in place that allow this shit to happen. Later, sure, when stuff is reported then it’s just clear negligence, but why is it happening in the first place?

I’m fucking glad that my peers are standing up for themselves, and standing up for this BS. 17 kids died a week ago. You know what politicians said? That the kids standing up were bought out to speak against gun violence. That whacking off and porno was more deadly than a fucking tool designed to kill.

No, the laws were in place. This last shooter was reported to the cops and FBI 39 times. NOTHING WAS DONE. Those individuals whose responsibility it was to investigate this person need to be held accountable.

Please link said video as well as where politicans said porno is mroe deadly than guns.

Sailor Mars

February 22nd, 2018, 10:46 AM

No, the laws were in place. This last shooter was reported to the cops and FBI 39 times. NOTHING WAS DONE. Those individuals whose responsibility it was to investigate this person need to be held accountable.

Please link said video as well as where politicans said porno is mroe deadly than guns.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/02/21/florida-house-refuses-to-debate-guns-but-declares-porn-dangerous/?utm_term=.6487b5b67f7a

One of the many articles. Can’t find the video tho, too much backtracking. I might try later.

Southside

February 22nd, 2018, 10:48 AM

NudistFun

February 22nd, 2018, 10:50 AM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/02/21/florida-house-refuses-to-debate-guns-but-declares-porn-dangerous/?utm_term=.6487b5b67f7a

One of the many articles. Can’t find the video tho, too much backtracking. I might try later.

That doesn't say anything about anyone saying porn is deadlier than guns. It simply means that legislators declared porn as a public health risk and didn't ban semi-automatic weapons. The term "assault weapon" is a platitude.

Sailor Mars

February 22nd, 2018, 10:55 AM

That doesn't say anything about anyone saying porn is deadlier than guns. It simply means that legislators declared porn as a public health risk and didn't ban semi-automatic weapons. The term "assault weapon" is a platitude.

...? I’m confused. Does that not say it all?

NudistFun

February 22nd, 2018, 11:04 AM

...? I’m confused. Does that not say it all?

No. It does not.

Again, all the article says is that the house declared porn a public health issue. There is some psychological basis for that, but I won't agree it's the government's place to declare a voluntary action or vice anything.

Not banning semi-auto weapons doesn't mean that anyone thinks porn is more deadly (mortality wasn't even mentioned and to equate that not banning weapons over saying porn is a public health issue is saying porn is more deadly is a false equivalency).

It means that those lawmakers don't think banning semi-auto weapons is going to be effective in affecting school shootings and that they probably also believe, correctly, that doing so would probably be overturned by a 2nd Amendment challenge.

Sailor Mars

February 22nd, 2018, 11:38 AM

No. It does not.

Again, all the article says is that the house declared porn a public health issue. There is some psychological basis for that, but I won't agree it's the government's place to declare a voluntary action or vice anything.

Not banning semi-auto weapons doesn't mean that anyone thinks porn is more deadly (mortality wasn't even mentioned and to equate that not banning weapons over saying porn is a public health issue is saying porn is more deadly is a false equivalency).

It means that those lawmakers don't think banning semi-auto weapons is going to be effective in affecting school shootings and that they probably also believe, correctly, that doing so would probably be overturned by a 2nd Amendment challenge.

...I’m so confused of how you think. Honestly. Instead of passing or even considering a gun-control bill, they passed a bill that claims porn is a public health risk... porn. Compared to a gun. In front of victims of a school shooting...

And I don’t understand how it would be overturned by the 2nd amendment either, but that’s not a debate for this thread

NudistFun

February 22nd, 2018, 11:48 AM

...I’m so confused of how you think. Honestly. Instead of passing or even considering a gun-control bill, they passed a bill that claims porn is a public health risk... porn. Compared to a gun. In front of victims of a school shooting...

And I don’t understand how it would be overturned by the 2nd amendment either, but that’s not a debate for this thread

There were already laws in place that could have prevented this shooting. The FBI and Police were alerted a total of 39 times about this individual yet did nothing. If they had investigated they could have flagged him so that when he bought his weapon, his background check wouldn't have allowed him to purchase.

Just because the house didn't enact more laws when the laws in place already failed doesn't mean that the house doesn't care. It may just mean they don't think the bill proposed would effective. And just because victims are present doesn't mean that you throw logic out the window.

Uniquemind

February 22nd, 2018, 01:11 PM

There were already laws in place that could have prevented this shooting. The FBI and Police were alerted a total of 39 times about this individual yet did nothing. If they had investigated they could have flagged him so that when he bought his weapon, his background check wouldn't have allowed him to purchase.

Just because the house didn't enact more laws when the laws in place already failed doesn't mean that the house doesn't care. It may just mean they don't think the bill proposed would effective. And just because victims are present doesn't mean that you throw logic out the window.

It's both, to nutshell this because I don't feel like writing an essay right now:

1. Executive authority (country police, state police, FBI) don't feel they have the legal authority to report or act upon a 5150, to take someone in who then declared before a judge that they are a clear an present danger to themselves.

This is a hard legal requirement to meet, and you don't meet it just because an individual has a weapon or says some crazy things here or there. You have this hard requirement because of the human rights abuses that occurred when America ran Asylums, where many dark abusive medical practices took place.

Any current changes to weakening individual right to be committed or have power of attorney taken away and given to the state is going to trigger lawsuits from the ACLU (a darkside of a normally wonderful advocacy group).

2. There exist weapons on the market that should be classified based on speed of fire, magazine capacity, and mechanical design crucial to killing capacity....but it's not the way laws are written look at non-critical design features of a gun, allowing for loopholes, where you swap out a handle of different material and it no longer falls into the category of "banned".

3. The term "mentally ill" a vague catch all term, how would a law be written that balances and recognizes individual rights verses a more specific form of anti-social, homicidal mentally ill. So laws need to change.

(Anti-social means the compulsion and urge to hurt others, asocial means those who like isolation and introversion).

Also I might add Flordia STATE law is so weak on gun restrictions and open carry restrictions.

----

Another person also mentioned earlier in the thread about how inner cities like Chicago has tons of gun violence but because they're black this kind of outrage isn't listened too.

I agree I definitely think class demographics have something to do with why the media is on this story right now...but I ask you this, if change happens if a bill or movement happens that ultimately still helps inner city kids with gun violence isn't it still worth swallowing that bitterness and joining the movement?

ShineintheDark

February 22nd, 2018, 01:12 PM

I'm glad that these students have used their right to protest for what they believe in. To all those saying they are better off in a classroom learning: what are they missing, a day's work? They'd have missed that anyways from being ill. Besides, I'm sure lots of work was missed by those caught up in that shooting too. They as citizens have the right to show that they're ticked off with the status quo and therefore have the right to protest.

To lighten up the discussion a little, here's a fairly interesting suggestion by Chris Rock: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZrFVtmRXrw)

mattsmith48

February 22nd, 2018, 02:30 PM

Anything they can do help great on them for doing it, these people are the voters or politicians of tomorrow, it should give you some hope for what is coming next for your country.

I think the whole thing is clearly just an emotional, irrational response to a tragedy, stoked by those who want to exploit it for political ends. Let's be honest, the vast majority of teenagers are not well informed on this issue. There are exceptions of course, but honestly the vast majority of students are just repeating whatever agenda their friends, parents, or the media has instilled in them.

This is not about exploiting a tragedy for political ends, this them knowing what the problem is and demanding people in power to do something to prevent it from happening. Its like if after a plane crash, people were accusing the airline of making a publicity stunt by trying to fix the problem that caused the crash.

Sure, but to many the real threat is within. What if someday there becomes some tyrannical fascist leader in the USA, how then to fight back? That's the point of the 2nd Amendment, not to defend against foreign invasion, but to fight back against the tyranny of your our government, which is exactly what happened in 1775 when the American colonists decided enough was enough when dealing with the British. And ironically the whole war was started at Lexington and Concord, because the British were trying to take their guns to prevent an uprising.

Yeah sure you are going to start shooting at government officials the military and police officers, that's just a fantasy not different than the end of the world being a fantasy to survivalists.

And think I'm conspiratorial for believing that there is a possibility of an American dictatorship? Just look at the backlash against Trump, the lefties are constantly saying that he is just Hitler with a spray tan. Yet for some reason the exact same people are saying that the only people who should own guns is the government, which is lead by the same person they believe want to slaughter every minority in the country. #LiberalLogic

Because guns have been great for preventing police officers from murdering innocent black people.

Stronk Serb

February 22nd, 2018, 03:33 PM

agreed. if its truly the politicians fault, then vote them out of office.
my time personally is better spent at school...learning.
I already know several people who are using this as an excuse just to get out of class.

Democracies do not work like that. Most of the time you pick the lesser of two evils. The last election of the US was a prime example. Literally the shittiest possible persons got the candidacy.

Dmaxd123

February 22nd, 2018, 04:06 PM

It takes a school of kids in suburban American being gunned down for protest and legislative pressure to happen

What about the 600+ murders last year in the streets of Chicago? No one is ever outraged about that

Guess when it’s inner city, people of color..the rest of America turns a blind eye to it

your statement proves my argument AGAINST more rules, regulations, and bans.

as nudistfun already said if we can't police whats on the books why make more laws?

Chicago is notoriously bad for shootings but also notoriously strict on their gun laws.

someone also said "politicians need to listen to us" a few weeks ago students were making the news for eating laundry detergent! I know it's not the same ones eating laundry detergent then going out and saying "hey lets have a conversation about gun control" but it's still a bit hard to be taken seriously when those are both coming from the same school buildings

Dalcourt

February 22nd, 2018, 04:46 PM

Uniquemind

February 22nd, 2018, 05:54 PM

your statement proves my argument AGAINST more rules, regulations, and bans.

as nudistfun already said if we can't police whats on the books why make more laws?

Chicago is notoriously bad for shootings but also notoriously strict on their gun laws.

someone also said "politicians need to listen to us" a few weeks ago students were making the news for eating laundry detergent! I know it's not the same ones eating laundry detergent then going out and saying "hey lets have a conversation about gun control" but it's still a bit hard to be taken seriously when those are both coming from the same school buildings

I already debunked this belief about how Chicago's gun violence, supports the position that gun laws are ineffective.

Chicago, Illinois, has some of the toughest gun laws in the country yes, the but reason crime with guns still is prevalent and unchanged is because the states neighboring are a convenient drive away, and those states have some of the most lax laws in regards to guns in the entire country.

So really what we need is a nationwide crackdown, that goes beyond state borders so we can at least gather the data on how laws like that work, WITH RESPECT TO the fact that so many guns are out in circulation, you'd need to wait a century or so to see the effects of, and THEN make a judgement to see if such laws have an effect.

NewLeafsFan

February 22nd, 2018, 11:42 PM

Wild hog and wolf hunting often uses rapid fire weapons, as they are tough animals that often require multiple shots to put down and you really don't want to be fiddling with a manual reload while a pissed off 300lb boar is bearing down on you. They are also often used for smaller game, like rabbits, where you often need to take multiple shots to finally hit the animal.

And in reality, there are no assault rifles in the legal-market, at least ones not heavily regulated and controlled. AR-15s for instance, are not assault rifles, as they don't have selective fire (full-auto mode). Instead, they are grouped under "assault weapons" which is really just a meaningless term made up back in the 90s to refer to whatever guns politicians wanted to cast in a negative light. Assault rifles were banned from further production back in the 80s. The only way you can get an assault rifle is to by one made prior to 1986, which involves far more paperwork and background checks than your typical gun, and is really expensive.
Sure, but to many the real threat is within. What if someday there becomes some tyrannical fascist leader in the USA, how then to fight back? That's the point of the 2nd Amendment, not to defend against foreign invasion, but to fight back against the tyranny of your our government, which is exactly what happened in 1775 when the American colonists decided enough was enough when dealing with the British. And ironically the whole war was started at Lexington and Concord, because the British were trying to take their guns to prevent an uprising.

And think I'm conspiratorial for believing that there is a possibility of an American dictatorship? Just look at the backlash against Trump, the lefties are constantly saying that he is just Hitler with a spray tan. Yet for some reason the exact same people are saying that the only people who should own guns is the government, which is lead by the same person they believe want to slaughter every minority in the country. #LiberalLogic

I don't understand what you are getting at? Are you suggesting that if a tyrant is elected, you have the constitutional right to murder them? And security is so tight, I don't think someone would be able to kill the president if they wanted to. I don't think what you are saying is a possibility.

Sailor Mars

February 23rd, 2018, 12:00 AM

It takes a school of kids in suburban American being gunned down for protest and legislative pressure to happen

What about the 600+ murders last year in the streets of Chicago? No one is ever outraged about that

Guess when it’s inner city, people of color..the rest of America turns a blind eye to it

That’s a good point. I can’t as a person of color, because I’m white, but inner city I can speak. I think it’s just become so normalized that people don’t even notice anymore. Media and people have demonized African Americans and Latinos, urban communities, basically, with all the gang talk and stereotypes. Hell, the president even says shit like that. It’s so... typical? I guess, for lack of a better word, that people don’t realize it’s really an issue. It takes things like school shootings or club shootings in suburban areas, something “out of the ordinary” (not anymore, with how often it is) for people to realize.

As shitty as a situation it is, minorities have been cast aside because of stereotypes and false representation, guns and violence seem normal in urban communities, so no one thinks of it as an issue.

Southside

February 23rd, 2018, 12:46 AM

your statement proves my argument AGAINST more rules, regulations, and bans.

as nudistfun already said if we can't police whats on the books why make more laws?

Chicago is notoriously bad for shootings but also notoriously strict on their gun laws.

someone also said "politicians need to listen to us" a few weeks ago students were making the news for eating laundry detergent! I know it's not the same ones eating laundry detergent then going out and saying "hey lets have a conversation about gun control" but it's still a bit hard to be taken seriously when those are both coming from the same school buildings

Dog.. I could drive 15 minutes to Indiana and buy a gym bag full of handguns, come back to Chicago and sell em out the trunk of my car. You can get a gun as easy as a bag of chips here in Chicago.Lot of the guns used in crimes here are traced back to states with less stricter gun laws such as Indy and many southern states.

I know guys our age(16-20) who carry loaded guns on em like it’s a iPhone

These streets are wild man, Chicago has a gang problem not a gun problem

Until there is equal outrage nationwide when it comes to gun violence among urban, people of color....I cannot take any of these walkouts and political debates seriously. I’ve seen too many of my own shot down in the streets to even be outraged when gun terror visits suburban America.

Sailor Mars

February 27th, 2018, 09:13 PM

Dog.. I could drive 15 minutes to Indiana and buy a gym bag full of handguns, come back to Chicago and sell em out the trunk of my car. You can get a gun as easy as a bag of chips here in Chicago.Lot of the guns used in crimes here are traced back to states with less stricter gun laws such as Indy and many southern states.

I know guys our age(16-20) who carry loaded guns on em like it’s a iPhone

These streets are wild man, Chicago has a gang problem not a gun problem

Until there is equal outrage nationwide when it comes to gun violence among urban, people of color....I cannot take any of these walkouts and political debates seriously. I’ve seen too many of my own shot down in the streets to even be outraged when gun terror visits suburban America.

Same here... think bout guns in New York, shit is super strict. What do u do? Go out of state, bring em back, hand em out. Easy as that. It’s insane.

I agree with you to a point, there should be massive amounts of outrage, and it is brought to light because of white/suburban schools being shot up. However, I think as long as these protests get the point across that “Guns are bad” and we should be prioritizing children over weapons, it’s fine with me. Along with it, i think, urban communities and minority groups will start to speak up as well, and the issues of gang violence and guns in urban neighborhoods will also be brought up.

jack2001

March 6th, 2018, 11:40 PM

I think the whole thing is clearly just an emotional, irrational response to a tragedy, stoked by those who want to exploit it for political ends. Let's be honest, the vast majority of teenagers are not well informed on this issue. There are exceptions of course, but honestly the vast majority of students are just repeating whatever agenda their friends, parents, or the media has instilled in them.

The idea that the NRA is some sort of cabal that controls the government and doesn't represents actual Americans is just ridiculous. The NRA is not in the top 10 of lobbying groups, it isn't even in the top 50, which is the largest list I could find online. In fact, anti-gun groups like Soros and Priorities USA lobby considerably more than the NRA.

Nevermind the fact that the NRA is entirely supported by individual donations from millions of members. Contrasts that with most other lobbying groups, which typically get most of their wealth through corporate donations, billionaire backers, or forced union dues. So unless you want to start doing something about how unions and Soros owns Democrats, it seems really hypocritical to want to destroy the NRA because you falsely believe it owns the Republicans.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/16/nra-money-isnt-why-gun-control-efforts-are-failing-commentary.html

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php?cycle=ALL

Wild hog and wolf hunting often uses rapid fire weapons, as they are tough animals that often require multiple shots to put down and you really don't want to be fiddling with a manual reload while a pissed off 300lb boar is bearing down on you. They are also often used for smaller game, like rabbits, where you often need to take multiple shots to finally hit the animal.

And in reality, there are no assault rifles in the legal-market, at least ones not heavily regulated and controlled. AR-15s for instance, are not assault rifles, as they don't have selective fire (full-auto mode). Instead, they are grouped under "assault weapons" which is really just a meaningless term made up back in the 90s to refer to whatever guns politicians wanted to cast in a negative light. Assault rifles were banned from further production back in the 80s. The only way you can get an assault rifle is to by one made prior to 1986, which involves far more paperwork and background checks than your typical gun, and is really expensive.
Sure, but to many the real threat is within. What if someday there becomes some tyrannical fascist leader in the USA, how then to fight back? That's the point of the 2nd Amendment, not to defend against foreign invasion, but to fight back against the tyranny of your our government, which is exactly what happened in 1775 when the American colonists decided enough was enough when dealing with the British. And ironically the whole war was started at Lexington and Concord, because the British were trying to take their guns to prevent an uprising.

And think I'm conspiratorial for believing that there is a possibility of an American dictatorship? Just look at the backlash against Trump, the lefties are constantly saying that he is just Hitler with a spray tan. Yet for some reason the exact same people are saying that the only people who should own guns is the government, which is lead by the same person they believe want to slaughter every minority in the country. #LiberalLogic

No one needs an AR-15 for any reason ever. Just don't hunt wild boar. Also, the protests aren't "an emotional outburst." Obviously, we're tired of Americans being shot and we're tired of Republicans taking money from the NRA over the lives of citizens. And yes, I do know that Obama had a chance to introduce common sense gun control, and I'm pissed that wasn't a priority for him. Also, the US Government is the most powerful entity on the planet. Do you really think a group of citizens could take on the government with some AR-15's? Not a chance.

PlasmaHam

March 7th, 2018, 12:49 AM

No one needs an AR-15 for any reason ever. Just don't hunt wild boar.

You do realize wild boar are a major ecological threat to the USA? They are an invasive species that eats a huge amount of foliage and is quite aggressive. For that reason they are one of the few animals without a defined hunting season or take-limits in most states. If we stopped hunting boar, then there will be massive ecological damage. Given that you are clearly a leftist, I am assuming you care a lot about the environment. Would you like to be in part responsible for the extinction of native animals just because you are scared of a weapon that millions of people own and use responsibly?

Also, the protests aren't "an emotional outburst." Nearly all protests in the wake of a tragedy are the results of emotional outbursts. That's just common sense, if a bit pessimistic. And just looking at the responses from it: e.i. comparing the NRA to the National Socialist Party, advocating for the immediate confiscation of all guns, accusing conservatives of being directly responsible for said actions, advocating violence against NRA members, etc. Those clearly are not rational responses, those are emotional. If the argument against gun rights can be won with rational, then it would already be. But it can't, which is why the emotional duress of such tragedies is exploited instead.
Obviously, we're tired of Americans being shot and we're tired of Republicans taking money from the NRA over the lives of citizens.Planned Parenthood donates far more to Democrats than the NRA goes to Republicans. I know you are pro-choice, and likely pro-Planned Parenthood, so I would suggest you re-evaluate your "The NRA controls Washington" conspiracy.

Also, the US Government is the most powerful entity on the planet. Do you really think a group of citizens could take on the government with some AR-15's? Not a chance.I'm sure they said something very similar back in 1775 America.

mattsmith48

March 7th, 2018, 04:37 PM

Also, the US Government is the most powerful entity on the planet. Do you really think a group of citizens could take on the government with some AR-15's? Not a chance.

Actually it is the US military that is the powerful entity that citizens would have to fight in their fantasy world.

Nearly all protests in the wake of a tragedy are the results of emotional outbursts. That's just common sense, if a bit pessimistic. And just looking at the responses from it: e.i. comparing the NRA to the National Socialist Party, advocating for the immediate confiscation of all guns, accusing conservatives of being directly responsible for said actions, advocating violence against NRA members, etc. Those clearly are not rational responses, those are emotional. If the argument against gun rights can be won with rational, then it would already be. But it can't, which is why the emotional duress of such tragedies is exploited instead.
Planned Parenthood donates far more to Democrats than the NRA goes to Republicans. I know you are pro-choice, and likely pro-Planned Parenthood, so I would suggest you re-evaluate your "The NRA controls Washington" conspiracy.

You are comparing NRA to Planned Parenthood? That's low, but fine show us the evidence of that.

jack2001

March 7th, 2018, 06:23 PM

You do realize wild boar are a major ecological threat to the USA? They are an invasive species that eats a huge amount of foliage and is quite aggressive. For that reason they are one of the few animals without a defined hunting season or take-limits in most states. If we stopped hunting boar, then there will be massive ecological damage. Given that you are clearly a leftist, I am assuming you care a lot about the environment. Would you like to be in part responsible for the extinction of native animals just because you are scared of a weapon that millions of people own and use responsibly?

Nearly all protests in the wake of a tragedy are the results of emotional outbursts. That's just common sense, if a bit pessimistic. And just looking at the responses from it: e.i. comparing the NRA to the National Socialist Party, advocating for the immediate confiscation of all guns, accusing conservatives of being directly responsible for said actions, advocating violence against NRA members, etc. Those clearly are not rational responses, those are emotional. If the argument against gun rights can be won with rational, then it would already be. But it can't, which is why the emotional duress of such tragedies is exploited instead.

Planned Parenthood donates far more to Democrats than the NRA goes to Republicans. I know you are pro-choice, and likely pro-Planned Parenthood, so I would suggest you re-evaluate your "The NRA controls Washington" conspiracy.

I'm sure they said something very similar back in 1775 America.

I'm aware of the wild boar infestation. I do live in Texas, after all. Once again, the protests aren't emotional outbursts. Teens want our voices to be heard, and considering most of us can't vote, this is the best way to do it. Also, comparing the NRA to Planned Parenthood is like comparing bananas and broccoli. They're two completely different organizations with different motives. Also, the English in 1775 didn't have access to tanks, missiles, and literally dozens of other advanced weaponry the US does today. If a citizen group tries to go against the US, they will lose.

Actually it is the US military that is the powerful entity that citizens would have to fight in their fantasy world.

That is exactly what I said.

double posts merged ~ Val

PlasmaHam

March 8th, 2018, 02:49 PM

You are comparing NRA to Planned Parenthood? That's low, but fine show us the evidence of that.
I know, comparing a group whose sole purpose is to defend constitutional rights with a group who is most famous for killing infants and selling their body parts, but it works for my purposes.

I believe I already made this argument clear in one of the many other recent gun control threads, but I'll quickly rethread it. If you want a more detailed and sourced argument, go find my previous post. But anyways, the NRA is small fry in the political lobbying and donation circles, around 5 million annually*. Not even in the top 50 of lobbying groups. Planned Parenthood isn't a huge donator either, but it does donate and spend more political money than the NRA, with most estimates being 3-8 times more than the NRA. Nevermind the fact that Planned Parenthood, a clearly partisan lobbying group, gets 500 million plus dollars of federal funding, while the NRA gets none. So if the Dems want to insist the Republicans are bathing in NRA "blood money", then they better take a look a good look at themselves before they bathe in that Planned Parenthood "blood money".

I'm aware of the wild boar infestation. I do live in Texas, after all. Alright, then you are aware that the only way to effectively deal with them is to kill them, with is most effectively and safely done with a semi-auto rifle, like the AR-15?

Once again, the protests aren't emotional outbursts. Teens want our voices to be heard, and considering most of us can't vote, this is the best way to do it.
You are just repeating yourself now, come up with an actual point please.
Also, comparing the NRA to Planned Parenthood is like comparing bananas and broccoli. They're two completely different organizations with different motives. See above.

Also, the English in 1775 didn't have access to tanks, missiles, and literally dozens of other advanced weaponry the US does today. If a citizen group tries to go against the US, they will lose.
If you know your history, then you know that rebel groups don't win through direct military victory. Such is nearly impossible. Rebel groups win by convincing the enemy populace that continued warfare just isn't worth it. That's how the American Revolution was won, and that is how the Viet-Cong won the Vietnam war. Just imagine the massive unpopularity of a war in which the American government is rolling tanks through the streets and firing missiles at it's own populace. Just imagine the numerous American troops that would abandon their ranks, leaving the US Military in a lack of man-power. The draft would likely be re-instated. Nations sympathetic to the rebels would soon start to give them aid of weapons and equipment, just like the French and Spanish during the Revolution. They may eventually even directly join the fighting, like the British were very close to during the Civil War.

That's all speculation of course, but in the realm of possibility. Wars and Revolutions are as much political as they are actual warfare. Fascinating honestly, but I've probably bored you already. :P

mattsmith48

March 8th, 2018, 04:32 PM

I know, comparing a group whose sole purpose is to defend constitutional rights with a group who is most famous for killing infants and selling their body parts, but it works for my purposes.

Wait the NRA is selling body parts? Since when? Isn't that illegal? And you support those people?

Also the NRA is not only responsible for the death of infants, but also the deaths of children, teenagers and adults, and animals too.

I believe I already made this argument clear in one of the many other recent gun control threads, but I'll quickly rethread it. If you want a more detailed and sourced argument, go find my previous post. But anyways, the NRA is small fry in the political lobbying and donation circles, around 5 million annually*. Not even in the top 50 of lobbying groups. Planned Parenthood isn't a huge donator either, but it does donate and spend more political money than the NRA, with most estimates being 3-8 times more than the NRA. Nevermind the fact that Planned Parenthood, a clearly partisan lobbying group, gets 500 million plus dollars of federal funding, while the NRA gets none. So if the Dems want to insist the Republicans are bathing in NRA "blood money", then they better take a look a good look at themselves before they bathe in that Planned Parenthood "blood money".

So then you shouldn't have any problem showing us numbers comparing the two groups?

jack2001

March 8th, 2018, 06:24 PM

I know, comparing a group whose sole purpose is to defend constitutional rights with a group who is most famous for killing infants and selling their body parts, but it works for my purposes.

I believe I already made this argument clear in one of the many other recent gun control threads, but I'll quickly rethread it. If you want a more detailed and sourced argument, go find my previous post. But anyways, the NRA is small fry in the political lobbying and donation circles, around 5 million annually*. Not even in the top 50 of lobbying groups. Planned Parenthood isn't a huge donator either, but it does donate and spend more political money than the NRA, with most estimates being 3-8 times more than the NRA. Nevermind the fact that Planned Parenthood, a clearly partisan lobbying group, gets 500 million plus dollars of federal funding, while the NRA gets none. So if the Dems want to insist the Republicans are bathing in NRA "blood money", then they better take a look a good look at themselves before they bathe in that Planned Parenthood "blood money".

Alright, then you are aware that the only way to effectively deal with them is to kill them, with is most effectively and safely done with a semi-auto rifle, like the AR-15?

You are just repeating yourself now, come up with an actual point please.
See above.

If you know your history, then you know that rebel groups don't win through direct military victory. Such is nearly impossible. Rebel groups win by convincing the enemy populace that continued warfare just isn't worth it. That's how the American Revolution was won, and that is how the Viet-Cong won the Vietnam war. Just imagine the massive unpopularity of a war in which the American government is rolling tanks through the streets and firing missiles at it's own populace. Just imagine the numerous American troops that would abandon their ranks, leaving the US Military in a lack of man-power. The draft would likely be re-instated. Nations sympathetic to the rebels would soon start to give them aid of weapons and equipment, just like the French and Spanish during the Revolution. They may eventually even directly join the fighting, like the British were very close to during the Civil War.

That's all speculation of course, but in the realm of possibility. Wars and Revolutions are as much political as they are actual warfare. Fascinating honestly, but I've probably bored you already. :P

You're repeating yourself as well, but I guess I'll say it again since you clearly aren't understanding. The protests are simply a way for teens to voice their opinions because we can't vote. You do understand that the voting age is 18, right? Most teens aren't 18+, so the protests are simply the best way to let politicians know we want change. Also, shooting feral hogs is not the only way to kill them, and there are many other guns that can do the job besides the AR-15. If you need an AR-15 to hunt, then you probably shouldn't be hunting. You also completely missed my point about the whole revolution. What I'm saying is that the revolution would be over before it even began. A lot of people say they'd revolt against the government, but that's all talk, because deep down, they know they don't stand a chance. And thirdly, if you're bringing history into this, it's best not to cherry pick. There have been a lot more unsuccessful revolutions than successful ones.

PlasmaHam

March 8th, 2018, 07:19 PM

You're repeating yourself as well, but I guess I'll say it again since you clearly aren't understanding. The protests are simply a way for teens to voice their opinions because we can't vote. You do understand that the voting age is 18, right? Most teens aren't 18+, so the protests are simply the best way to let politicians know we want change.
And I'll say again the protests are just emotional outbursts from scared teenagers which are being encouraged and manipulated by the Left and the media. I'll say again that the irrational and hate-filled rhetoric you hear from these protesters is evidence aplenty of an emotional, not rational, attitude. And I'll say again that most teenagers are ignorant of the NRA, gun-laws, and the US Constitution, which I know from personal experience. You just repeating your mantra that these teens are entirely rational and just want change isn't convincing anyone.

Also, shooting feral hogs is not the only way to kill them, and there are many other guns that can do the job besides the AR-15. If you need an AR-15 to hunt, then you probably shouldn't be hunting. For a Texan, you don't seem very aware of hunting. Hogs are aggressive and smart pack animals. Using a single-fire weapon means at best you can only take a single animal at a time, greatly slowing you down. Semi-auto rifles allow you to take multiple animals, and defend yourself if a ticked off boar charges you. It is simply the most effective route. The only other real method to deal with hogs is traps, which even then aren't great because hogs are often smart enough to know to avoid them.
If you need an AR-15 to hunt, then you probably shouldn't be hunting. Okay... Do you hunt? Because if so I'm assuming you use a hand-crafted twine bow with stone-head arrows? After all, if you need a gun to hunt, then you probably shouldn't be hunting. :P

Anyhow, I use both an AR-15 and a recurve bow to hunt. Both have advantages and disadvantages. The AR-15 is not some ultra cheat-code that allows just any ole Joe with no skills to kill a deer within an hour like you are saying. Those who deride the AR-15 as "unfair" in hunting clearly have never hunted with one.

And thirdly, if you're bringing history into this, it's best not to cherry pick. There have been a lot more unsuccessful revolutions than successful ones.Oh, I'm not trying to cherry pick to put forward the idea that a revolution is definitely going to win. After all, I referenced the American Civil War numerous times, where the rebels did lose. I'm just trying to explain to you that simply saying "the rebels will have no chance because the government has stronger weapons" is far too simplistic of an argument. I am well aware that revolutions typically fail, but I am also well aware revolutions have succeeded despite seemingly impossible odds. I'm just saying there is a chance, you are saying that there is absolutely no chance. Which one of us is the closed-minded one?

Sailor Mars

March 8th, 2018, 08:35 PM

And I'll say again the protests are just emotional outbursts from scared teenagers which are being encouraged and manipulated by the Left and the media. I'll say again that the irrational and hate-filled rhetoric you hear from these protesters is evidence aplenty of an emotional, not rational, attitude. And I'll say again that most teenagers are ignorant of the NRA, gun-laws, and the US Constitution, which I know from personal experience. You just repeating your mantra that these teens are entirely rational and just want change isn't convincing anyone.
For a Texan, you don't seem very aware of hunting. Hogs are aggressive and smart pack animals. Using a single-fire weapon means at best you can only take a single animal at a time, greatly slowing you down. Semi-auto rifles allow you to take multiple animals, and defend yourself if a ticked off boar charges you. It is simply the most effective route. The only other real method to deal with hogs is traps, which even then aren't great because hogs are often smart enough to know to avoid them.
Okay... Do you hunt? Because if so I'm assuming you use a hand-crafted twine bow with stone-head arrows? After all, if you need a gun to hunt, then you probably shouldn't be hunting. :P

Anyhow, I use both an AR-15 and a recurve bow to hunt. Both have advantages and disadvantages. The AR-15 is not some ultra cheat-code that allows just any ole Joe with no skills to kill a deer within an hour like you are saying. Those who deride the AR-15 as "unfair" in hunting clearly have never hunted with one.

Oh, I'm not trying to cherry pick to put forward the idea that a revolution is definitely going to win. After all, I referenced the American Civil War numerous times, where the rebels did lose. I'm just trying to explain to you that simply saying "the rebels will have no chance because the government has stronger weapons" is far too simplistic of an argument. I am well aware that revolutions typically fail, but I am also well aware revolutions have succeeded despite seemingly impossible odds. I'm just saying there is a chance, you are saying that there is absolutely no chance. Which one of us is the closed-minded one?

I’m curious as to why you’re set that teenagers and youth are marching and protesting because we’re being brainwashed by left media... I’m pretty sure the teens of Parkland are marching because their classmates and friends were shot and killed before their eyes, not because they’re being manipulated by the media. I’m pretty sure a large majority of the youth in America that are partaking in these events are because they see the kids down in Florida taking a stand against gun violence and loose gun laws, and not because they’re being manipulated by the media.

I just don’t see why you guys are defending the weapons that are being used in mass shootings so often, rather than the youth and people of America. Do lives mean so little?... im genuinly confused...

Shootings and gun violence have always been a thing, but it’s become a trend of mass shootings now. Hundreds being killed... but you guys are still defending “muh, muh second amendment”. If you’re so supportive of the constitution and the bill of rights, then why are you trying to discourage these protests and calls for change? Why are you so negative about people, children, standing up and saying that human lives are more important than weapons? What’s so bad about wanting stricter regulations on guns? About not wanting criminals or mentally unstable people to get their hands on automatic rifles? Were not saying you can’t have guns, we’re saying we don’t want people with domestic abuse charges, people with anger management issues or schizophrenia, people who dont lock their guns safely away with small children present in the house, to have these weapons. That’s literally it. What’s so wrong with that? Can you explain?

jack2001

March 8th, 2018, 09:51 PM

And I'll say again the protests are just emotional outbursts from scared teenagers which are being encouraged and manipulated by the Left and the media. I'll say again that the irrational and hate-filled rhetoric you hear from these protesters is evidence aplenty of an emotional, not rational, attitude. And I'll say again that most teenagers are ignorant of the NRA, gun-laws, and the US Constitution, which I know from personal experience. You just repeating your mantra that these teens are entirely rational and just want change isn't convincing anyone.
For a Texan, you don't seem very aware of hunting. Hogs are aggressive and smart pack animals. Using a single-fire weapon means at best you can only take a single animal at a time, greatly slowing you down. Semi-auto rifles allow you to take multiple animals, and defend yourself if a ticked off boar charges you. It is simply the most effective route. The only other real method to deal with hogs is traps, which even then aren't great because hogs are often smart enough to know to avoid them.
Okay... Do you hunt? Because if so I'm assuming you use a hand-crafted twine bow with stone-head arrows? After all, if you need a gun to hunt, then you probably shouldn't be hunting. :P

Anyhow, I use both an AR-15 and a recurve bow to hunt. Both have advantages and disadvantages. The AR-15 is not some ultra cheat-code that allows just any ole Joe with no skills to kill a deer within an hour like you are saying. Those who deride the AR-15 as "unfair" in hunting clearly have never hunted with one.

Oh, I'm not trying to cherry pick to put forward the idea that a revolution is definitely going to win. After all, I referenced the American Civil War numerous times, where the rebels did lose. I'm just trying to explain to you that simply saying "the rebels will have no chance because the government has stronger weapons" is far too simplistic of an argument. I am well aware that revolutions typically fail, but I am also well aware revolutions have succeeded despite seemingly impossible odds. I'm just saying there is a chance, you are saying that there is absolutely no chance. Which one of us is the closed-minded one?

Of course I've hunted before. I don't think you need an AR-15, but to each his own, I guess. It's funny that you think that teenagers are ignorant of the Constitution. Since you clearly don't know what it means, here it is: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." What that means is that states have a right to keep their own private militias separate from the federal government, and those militia members have the right to bear arms. The founding fathers never intended for individual citizens to own guns, especially not ones that could kill dozens of people in less that ten minutes. And of course these teens are rational. They don't want people to get shot just because of the lax gun laws in this country, which is a perfectly rational stance to take, and when you look at other countries who have gun laws, it's clear that they work. And of course the rebels don't necessarily have 'impossible' odds, but the chance of overthrowing the US government is next to impossible.

Dmaxd123

March 8th, 2018, 09:52 PM

I'm just going to throw some stuff out there:

if a majority of "we the people" decide that we need the AR-15 style rifle to fight back against our government, we more than likely will NOT be fighting against our own military.

if the masses are taking up arms against the US Government you can be betting that a LOT of the past & present military will be on the side of the common citizen whom is taking up arms against the government.

as far as the guns being so easy to buy in other states and thats why gun laws don't work in your own city: those are illegal purchases to go across state lines and buy a handgun, and even more illegal to purchase it and resell it to someone you know can't legally have one... therefore proving that the tighter gun laws won't deter the criminal so proving that tighter gun laws aren't really the best answer for the US

jack2001

March 8th, 2018, 09:54 PM

I’m curious as to why you’re set that teenagers and youth are marching and protesting because we’re being brainwashed by left media... I’m pretty sure the teens of Parkland are marching because their classmates and friends were shot and killed before their eyes, not because they’re being manipulated by the media. I’m pretty sure a large majority of the youth in America that are partaking in these events are because they see the kids down in Florida taking a stand against gun violence and loose gun laws, and not because they’re being manipulated by the media.

I just don’t see why you guys are defending the weapons that are being used in mass shootings so often, rather than the youth and people of America. Do lives mean so little?... im genuinly confused...

Shootings and gun violence have always been a thing, but it’s become a trend of mass shootings now. Hundreds being killed... but you guys are still defending “muh, muh second amendment”. If you’re so supportive of the constitution and the bill of rights, then why are you trying to discourage these protests and calls for change? Why are you so negative about people, children, standing up and saying that human lives are more important than weapons? What’s so bad about wanting stricter regulations on guns? About not wanting criminals or mentally unstable people to get their hands on automatic rifles? Were not saying you can’t have guns, we’re saying we don’t want people with domestic abuse charges, people with anger management issues or schizophrenia, people who dont lock their guns safely away with small children present in the house, to have these weapons. That’s literally it. What’s so wrong with that? Can you explain?

I completely agree.

CoryW

March 8th, 2018, 11:22 PM

I think a we teens shouldn't protest or walk out.
We need to stay in school , study and on day run for office so we can change things the right way. I think it make people look stupid walking around protesting everything

Dalcourt

March 9th, 2018, 04:48 AM

There's something really strange about all those protests an marches. If you share the opinion of those protesters you say "oh such very fine people standing up for our rights. Marches are fine they are an expression of free speech"...or well just any of those sentences.

But if people who dare to have a different opinion than you do the marching it's stuff like "don't this people have anything better to do? I have to go to work and don't have time to go protest shit in the streets. It is useless anyway..."

Kinda strange huh? Or maybe not.

I feel people are so opposed to the idea of protest marches...since it shoves in their face that there's something wrong.

I mean why should I leave my cozy room. My hangin out with friends for fun and rather paint some protest signs and go out marching in the street? There must be something really important out there so I might do that.
If I would just be too lazy to go to school I just spend my time hangin in the Mall or so and don't do anything political. Why the hell would I waste my time with that?? So doing all this work just to get away from school? People get real.

So yeah if people leave their save space to go out and protest they shove into your save space telling ya something is not as it should be.

You live in your bubble thinking all the world's fine and then suddenly one of your neighbors gets up and says no it isn't all fine? How dare he make you think about what's going on in our world for real?

People made those protests and marches for so many different reasons. Like women demanding equal rights, the right to vote etc. same goes for colored people. The reaction always was why do they have to protest, can't they just be content and let us all go on with out lives? But it also makes you secretly uncomfortable...what if they are right? What if they deserve the same as we have?

People protested against wars because they didn't want to be sent to a useless death.They were labelled coward and unpatriotic. But what if they are right and the war they are sent to is really useless?
People protest rights of immigrants. Again, our achievement was that we happened to be born in the right country they had no such luck... so are really better than them? Do we have the right to throw them out? Would we not try to get to a "better country", too if we were in their place?

How dare those protests always make me question and justify myself?

There are protests I don't like to see...protests of white supremacists. They make ME think.
Are those people really feeling that way? Do they really feel I'm worth less just because of the color of my skin? Do they really wanna see me dead or still as a slave? These people burst my cost bubble of everyone being okay with all people in my country being seen as equal. They make me think what can I do to show them I deserve equality.

I love this topic and could go on for hours each here but yeah...

Whatever people might be marching for or protesting. They all have the right to express their opinion. They all have the right that their voices are heard. They should all make us think, they should all make us talk.
We cannot just all stay in our save spaces and think as long as things are fine for me they must be fine for anyone else.

Do political groups use such protest marches for themselves? Sure they do but that is isn't an exploitation. That's how democracy works.

So don't belittle those things they are essential for our freedom rights...way more essential than bearing arms in my opinion.

Snowfox

March 9th, 2018, 02:08 PM

No one needs an AR-15 for any reason ever. Just don't hunt wild boar. Also, the protests aren't "an emotional outburst." Obviously, we're tired of Americans being shot and we're tired of Republicans taking money from the NRA over the lives of citizens. And yes, I do know that Obama had a chance to introduce common sense gun control, and I'm pissed that wasn't a priority for him. Also, the US Government is the most powerful entity on the planet. Do you really think a group of citizens could take on the government with some AR-15's? Not a chance.

It needs just one shot. Remember Kennedy?

lanna_banana

March 11th, 2018, 10:23 PM

I live in Canada and I don't think I've ever once worried about getting shot at school. People don't have guns, or at least they don't use them on other people.

imanopenbook

March 12th, 2018, 09:13 PM

Tori101

March 12th, 2018, 11:22 PM

My school has a walkout on wednesday.

mattsmith48

March 13th, 2018, 09:52 AM

I live in Canada and I don't think I've ever once worried about getting shot at school. People don't have guns, or at least they don't use them on other people.

Same here. Ive never really worried about it. Im in Canada too and I know a lot of people have guns but they are not the same style as the assault ones.

That's because we see guns as a privilege not a right, and never felt we needed them for protection against a tyrannical government because as oppose to our neighbour the Banana Republic we never had to, when we want to get rid of a tyrannical government we just elect someone else to be tyrannical, well 34% of us.

Billy1212

March 13th, 2018, 03:20 PM

I think it's a great idea. I'm australian, so I dont know what it's like, but I agree with not going to school if you could get shot when your doing it.
Like, really. I don't understand it all, but can we blame trump??? I hop we can lol

CoryW

March 13th, 2018, 06:06 PM

Sailor Mars

March 13th, 2018, 06:46 PM

How can you blame the president?

The same way people blamed Obama for everything *shrug*

Billy1212

March 13th, 2018, 10:39 PM

How can you blame the president?

I'm just wondering, because I've heard that in America the president has a lot of power over laws, and could ban guns if he really wanted to. Just asking

Sailor Mars

March 13th, 2018, 11:08 PM

I'm just wondering, because I've heard that in America the president has a lot of power over laws, and could ban guns if he really wanted to. Just asking

There’s a system of checks and balances. There’s three branches of the federal government and they all need to have equal and fair amount of power. The president can’t do anything on their own (unless it’s an executive order or smth, but even those are reviewed). He needs the approval of congress in order to do stuff.

Billy1212

March 14th, 2018, 12:42 AM

There’s a system of checks and balances. There’s three branches of the federal government and they all need to have equal and fair amount of power. The president can’t do anything on their own (unless it’s an executive order or smth, but even those are reviewed). He needs the approval of congress in order to do stuff.

Thanks for that, I'm Aussie, so I didn't know. But with the whole keeping Muslims out that's why I thought trump had a load of power

Sailor Mars

March 14th, 2018, 06:45 AM

Thanks for that, I'm Aussie, so I didn't know. But with the whole keeping Muslims out that's why I thought trump had a load of power

It was a travel ban he put in place by signing an executive order, but it didn’t last very long bc of the Supreme Court (i think?)

CoryW

March 14th, 2018, 08:38 AM

I'm just wondering, because I've heard that in America the president has a lot of power over laws, and could ban guns if he really wanted to. Just asking
He can't just make or change laws. Congress has to vote on it

samuel15

March 14th, 2018, 10:05 AM

I'd love to walk but those kinds of things never happens in Sweden so I can't show my support for the dead.

Billy1212

March 14th, 2018, 02:54 PM

He can't just make or change laws. Congress has to vote on it

Ahhh, I've also wondered what congress is. Seems to be like the senate, is that right

It was a travel ban he put in place by signing an executive order, but it didn’t last very long bc of the Supreme Court (i think?)

I get it now thanks

Posts merged. Use the multi quote button next time. ~Mars

Dalcourt

March 14th, 2018, 10:09 PM

PlasmaHam

March 14th, 2018, 10:42 PM

I think it's a great idea. I'm australian, so I dont know what it's like, but I agree with not going to school if you could get shot when your doing it.

You're far more likely to get killed driving to and from school than actually being involved in a shooting. I'm not trying to spark a debate here, but the idea that gun deaths at American schools are common and increasing is not true.

Like, really. I don't understand it all, but can we blame trump??? I hop we can lol
Nope, but that's just the way it is. Happens on both sides of the aisle, blaming the current president for problems that he had almost nothing to do with. Doesn't make it right of course.

I'm just wondering, because I've heard that in America the president has a lot of power over laws, and could ban guns if he really wanted to. Just asking
What previous posters have said is true, but there is also another aspect to it. The US Constitution has various protected rights that all laws and regulations must comply with. Free speech, for instance, is one of those rights. Another one of those rights is the right for citizens to keep and bear arms. The exact definition of that right is repeatedly argued, but most except the most radical would agree that a gun confiscation is in violation of that right.

Ahhh, I've also wondered what congress is. Seems to be like the senate, is that right

The US and Australian governments are rather similar. Laws are passed in the Congress in the USA, and the Parliament in Australia. Both of those consist of two groups, the House and the Senate. Both consist of elected officials from each province, territory, or state, who vote on laws.

Sailor Mars

March 14th, 2018, 10:47 PM

It was a real awesome thing today. Our school hardly takes part in anything since people are just lazy and not interested in anything. Even they thought this walk out today is important...so that really means something.

A ton of kids on my campus (the building has 3 schools, so all together I’ll just call it the campus) walked out today. I would post videos but it pretty much shows my school name/street names, so I won’t.

I find it really inspirational and really just... im really happy and proud of how involved students got not only in my city, but nationwide.

You're far more likely to get killed driving to and from school than actually being involved in a shooting. I'm not trying to spark a debate here, but the idea that gun deaths at American schools are common and increasing is not true.
Did you know that cars are used as a mode of transportation while guns are literally tools to kill things? Also, that’s highly dependent on where you live.

And it’s not just about “gun deaths at American schools”, it’s about “gun deaths” and how to decrease the number. An easy way of doing so is gun control and stricter gun laws. Btw you never answered my questions from earlier ^^

Dalcourt

March 14th, 2018, 11:04 PM

A ton of kids on my campus (the building has 3 schools, so all together I’ll just call it the campus) walked out today. I would post videos but it pretty much shows my school name/street names, so I won’t.

I find it really inspirational and really just... im really happy and proud of how involved students got not only in my city, but nationwide.

Did you know that cars are used as a mode of transportation while guns are literally tools to kill things? Also, that’s highly dependent on where you live.

And it’s not just about “gun deaths at American schools”, it’s about “gun deaths” and how to decrease the number. An easy way of doing so is gun control and stricter gun laws. Btw you never answered my questions from earlier ^^

Yeah, same here...we have our school uniform with school name and all on it and I don't want to show it here. There was a lot of it on our local news.

As you said it was really inspirational and I was just glad the schools here
took part. I was especially happy to hear that not only schools in the city here took part but also some in the rural area.
Means a lot here in the South.

Uniquemind

March 14th, 2018, 11:57 PM

Some schools are punishing kids for skipping school to protest, with suspensions.

This seems illegal to me unless they’re private schools because this is a civil right to protest peacefull.

mattsmith48

March 15th, 2018, 12:47 AM

He can't just make or change laws. Congress has to vote on it

Someone should probably tell him.

You're far more likely to get killed driving to and from school than actually being involved in a shooting. I'm not trying to spark a debate here, but the idea that gun deaths at American schools are common and increasing is not true.

We all know what your opinion is on the subject, but that's not an excuse to confuse the kid even more with your bullshit or as you call it fake news.

Nope, but that's just the way it is. Happens on both sides of the aisle, blaming the current president for problems that he had almost nothing to do with. Doesn't make it right of course.

You could blame him for not doing anything to prevent it, by doing something the last time it happen, or you could criticize him for not doing anything about the problem, or for trying to make it worst, or proposing a solution but changing is mind right after and using any of that to blame him the next time it happens.

What previous posters have said is true, but there is also another aspect to it. The US Constitution has various protected rights that all laws and regulations must comply with. Free speech, for instance, is one of those rights. Another one of those rights is the right for citizens to keep and bear arms. The exact definition of that right is repeatedly argued, but most except the most radical would agree that a gun confiscation is in violation of that right.

Billy1212 That, that is exactly what the problem is, they see guns as right on the same level as free speech.

Some schools are punishing kids for skipping school to protest, with suspensions.

This seems illegal to me unless they’re private schools because this is a civil right to protest peacefull.

Who could have predicted this besides everyone? It is the students right to protest and the schools shouldn't punish them for that, but come on everyone knew that was gonna happen.

Uniquemind

March 15th, 2018, 02:35 AM

Billy1212

March 15th, 2018, 04:27 AM

Dmaxd123

March 15th, 2018, 05:43 AM

What I've been thinking is that if Americans used guns for the reason they want them, less people would die, because the mass shooter would be killed. Except that doesnt happen.
If more people sent bullets at the shooter, i would agree with the current gun laws. But nobody really does

that is exactly one of the big debates going on right now.
"should conceal carry be expanded?"

a majority of shootings (florida's last 3 that I know of) happen on "soft" targets. soft targets are places where guns are banned so even law abiding citizens with conceal carry permits can't legally have their sidearm there. conceal carry permit is an additional license to buy a handgun and carry it while the handgun not being visible

the school, the nightclub and the airport shooting were all targets with lots of people and minimal protection.

the church shooting in texas was stopped by someone on the street with a legal gun, there have been other shootings stopped by armed citizens who were in the right place at the right time legally carrying.

mattsmith48

March 15th, 2018, 09:57 AM

PlasmaHam

March 15th, 2018, 10:28 AM

Is anybody interested in making a forum thread to document which specific schools and which specific school districts penalized students for protesting, just so teens like us can stickup to the “authority” of those who think they can pull-rank on our movement?

The worst they can do is expel you, but you can always get around not having a diploma by getting a GED. And if teens from schools who supported the protest, back up teens from schools who penalize them, this sends a message.
Seriously? You really shouldn't be encouraging teenagers to harass teachers and schools just because they prohibited students from walking out on classes. That's like me handing out the names of colleges and their administrators who refused to allow students to skip classes to go the March for Life, and then encouraging pro-life students to target, harass, and sue them. On a mental health forum of all places.

What you are advocating for is just trolling, plain and simple. Harassing people because they didn't give you or your friends special privileges, that's the actions of a spoiled brat, not the intelligent and sensible teenager I assumed you were. I hope you will reconsider your offer of supported targeted harassment here, because right now you have lost a lot of good will in my mind

Sailor Mars

March 15th, 2018, 11:51 AM

Keep this thread on topic. ~Mars

mattsmith48

March 15th, 2018, 12:15 PM

Dmaxd123

March 15th, 2018, 12:32 PM

Its not everyone that can and will stay calm in a situation like that and stop the shooter, police officers go through a long training to be able to face those situations.

thats why most everyone that is for letting teachers/administrators carry a weapon is saying to make that part completely elective.

IF you choose to carry while at school, you may as long as you meet certain criteria.

the other thing is just knowing that a teacher may have a weapon will more than likely deter some would-be shooters. soft targets are chosen for a reason: most damage to others with the least amount of risk to the attacker. as the schools get more law enforcement presence and more teachers armed, the likelihood of being stopped early increases

mattsmith48

March 15th, 2018, 12:54 PM

thats why most everyone that is for letting teachers/administrators carry a weapon is saying to make that part completely elective.

IF you choose to carry while at school, you may as long as you meet certain criteria.

the other thing is just knowing that a teacher may have a weapon will more than likely deter some would-be shooters. soft targets are chosen for a reason: most damage to others with the least amount of risk to the attacker. as the schools get more law enforcement presence and more teachers armed, the likelihood of being stopped early increases

I don't want to go to much out of subject, so all I'll say to that is: It's not their fucking job to stop mass shooters.

Snowfox

March 15th, 2018, 02:33 PM

Its not everyone that can and will stay calm in a situation like that and stop the shooter, police officers go through a long training to be able to face those situations.

Just like that pathetic excuse of police or lets say typical donut warrior in Florida who just did nothing.

That alone should point out to not to trust police or government never in any circumstances.

And in USA police training is typically few months.
Compared to Finland 4 years. With US system of police training you get mainly people who are completely incompetent or you get trigger happy wannabe cowboys.

Where I live we have mandatory military service and it makes sure that at least most who have done it are able to pull trigger and more importantly to not to pull it when ever situation does not need it.

Its really alarming how incompetent people climb up ladder to become cops. You really have low standards. Maybe military instead of cops. They at least have some standards

Uniquemind

March 15th, 2018, 04:01 PM

Seriously? You really shouldn't be encouraging teenagers to harass teachers and schools just because they prohibited students from walking out on classes. That's like me handing out the names of colleges and their administrators who refused to allow students to skip classes to go the March for Life, and then encouraging pro-life students to target, harass, and sue them. On a mental health forum of all places.

What you are advocating for is just trolling, plain and simple. Harassing people because they didn't give you or your friends special privileges, that's the actions of a spoiled brat, not the intelligent and sensible teenager I assumed you were. I hope you will reconsider your offer of supported targeted harassment here, because right now you have lost a lot of good will in my mind

Ah there’s a debate worth having?

When did we ever operate under a framework of “allowing” school administrators to approve or or disapprove of anything legally peaceful and non-destructive of property?

I’m questioning the ethos of why authority should have authority when various schools are saying they will not accept even parental-pullout of their children to participate in protests without consequences.

It also isn’t harassment either, it’s drawing a line in the sand to say, I usually am respectful so when I’m challenging authority, I have more weight behind my being rebellious than the typical moody teen. Normally rules exist for a reason, this seems like the exception to the rule, and I am interested in seeing the mental divergence between who recognizes that fork in the road.

If it causes you to change how you view me, you must simply acknowledge my intelligence and nothing else. life is a series of “if I do this, then what’s the cause effect” and within a legal framework if you’re a school official who restricted the expression of a peaceful demonstration that adult failed to exercise advanced cognition and maturity and pulled rank without weighing the consequences for themselves that legally they might have enfringed on civil rights and thought their job too important in its authority.

It’s even more epistemically questionable when other adults of equal career status come to a different conclusion than you....so I ask is it really equal to trolling, or is this epistemically thought out more?

Trolling is done for entertainment value, lawsuits or sueing, usually goes after something of merit even just to make a statement and set legal precedent....different id say.

This is in ROTW for a reason and not in the abuse, or mental crisis part of the thread that’s why I posted here. I’m bound to step on toes sometimes.

Dalcourt

March 15th, 2018, 10:22 PM

It is really sad and strange, too, in my opinion.

NRA goes to court since it sees people's rights infringed if the age for buying guns is lifted from 18 to 21. But a student's rights aren't infringed if they get punished for such a minor things? It's not like they all quitted school for days to riot in the streets or anything.

Punishment for peaceful protest and for expression of your opinion this says a lot about the state our society is in.

Our school and those I know didn't punish people for attending the walkout. It was organised together with teachers and staff was heavily involved.

In general our school teaches us that we have certain civil rights and we are allowed to use them. But I'm from a very liberal community where it is encouraged to think for yourself and not just repeat stuff your great great grandparents already said without reflecting them.

So honestly a lot of this conservative thinking and punishment for having an opinion and whatever you see people applaud in a thread like that ... it's always sorta odd for me. It is simply not like I was raised and who society works where I come from. Even the most conservative people I know are completely different but this is another discussion and would just lead off topic.

So for our school it was not only a walkout to fight for stricter gun laws but also a quiet time to honor those people who had died in all those mass shootings and in senseless gun violence in general.

And if someone feels punishing people for honoring the dead ... well that would have been really sad.

abcdeqwe

March 15th, 2018, 10:26 PM

I would love to participate in my school's walk out but I'm not sure what the others kids at my school think but April 20th is pretty far away so.

Sailor Mars

March 15th, 2018, 10:36 PM

I would love to participate in my school's walk out but I'm not sure what the others kids at my school think but April 20th is pretty far away so.

April 20th we’re wearing orange and walking out at 10am for the day.

As far as disciplinary action goes, my school was kind of writing kids up for leaving class. I know a friend of mine got her mom called for walking out. Luckily my teacher didn’t report the kids who walked out (me and three other students, not a lot but our class is like 10 people and we had an essay due today).

I find it fucking ridiculous that people will defend guns because of the second amendment, but won’t defend a peaceful, 17 minute walkout and expression of our first amendment right. We weren’t disrupting classes. We weren’t rioting. We were literally expressing our right to life and liberty and pursuit of happiness. We were literally saying “Hey! We don’t want our schools shot up! We don’t want our concerts or clubs shot up! We don’t want our children dying in the streets!” I know a kid who died because he was shot. He never got to experience his junior year, or looking for college. He will never get to graduate high school. He will never see his parents faces when they see him hold his diploma. A group of friends (classmates I talk to) said this: “I’m doing this for Rohan”.

No one can say shit to me about my rights, about me walking out or marching, because I’ve lived through gun violence. I’ve lived through kids bringing guns into the building. I’ve lived through my classmates being shot and killed, or shot at. I’ve lived through hearing gunshots every other day when I wasn’t even 10 years old. Out here saying some bullshit like “oh, but what about hunting? What about this what about that?” WHOS SAYING YOU CANT HAVE GUNS? I’ll ask again! What’s so wrong with wanting stricter gun laws?? What’s so wrong with wanting psych evaluations?? What’s so wrong with wanting mandatory safety training?? What’s so wrong with checkups on those who legally own guns to make sure they’re safe??? What’s so wrong with that shit????

I’m enacting my first amendment right to protest. I’m not hurting anyone. So no one can really say shit to me about the school walkouts or the marches. My principal can call my dad. Or write me up. Put it on my record. I’m sure a college would like to read an essay about how I got suspended for advocating against gun violence than me being co captain of my volleyball team.

Uniquemind

March 16th, 2018, 02:15 AM

A bad school record doesn’t matter as long as you have a GED.

Employers really don’t look at that so as long as it’s not criminal it doesn’t really matter.

I’ve already seen some reports in the news of certain schools that retaliated against students and parents.

So since schools are tax payer funded, I’m very interested to see where this goes. I’m baffled some schools decide it’s in their best interest to suspend kids, for missing school.

Like okay schools, you’re gonna miss out on funding per student because of the protest per absent student, and then your gonna hurt your own school budget even more by keeping more students home for MORE days because of a suspension.

Doesn’t that mean the students would win a game of arbitration? If only a 3rd of students show up to class then the school only gets a 3rd if Federal Funds for that day....doesn’t that hurt the school more since they need that $ to pay teachers?

It makes no sense to me why the “authority” card is being used here...it seems like school official’s personal views on politics is affecting job performance and responsibility allocation upon students.

—

Edit: so how are parents reacting to these protests?

Billy1212

March 16th, 2018, 04:51 AM

that is exactly one of the big debates going on right now.
"should conceal carry be expanded?"

a majority of shootings (florida's last 3 that I know of) happen on "soft" targets. soft targets are places where guns are banned so even law abiding citizens with conceal carry permits can't legally have their sidearm there. conceal carry permit is an additional license to buy a handgun and carry it while the handgun not being visible

the school, the nightclub and the airport shooting were all targets with lots of people and minimal protection.

the church shooting in texas was stopped by someone on the street with a legal gun, there have been other shootings stopped by armed citizens who were in the right place at the right time legally carrying.
Ahh ok.

Uniquemind

March 16th, 2018, 05:34 AM

I’m gonna go ahead and say this:
PlasmaHam; you’ve called me out for debate so let’s have a debate but understand personal views about each other or earning or losing respect wasn’t a part of the topic I want to discuss, either the issue itself and the analysis of human rationale of the behaviors we’ve seen so far are interesting and worth discussing for breakdown, or they aren’t. But that’s all I’m going to engage you on.

School officials who are trying to use threats and carrots to prevent walkouts are doing this for either 3-4 reasons:

1. The student walkout costs the school money (which they need for salaries etc)

2. The people themselves are letting personal political opinion influence how they do their job and exercise the power afforded to them by their job.

3. They’re genuinely concerned about the walkout being destructive if evidence shows poor planning.

4. It’s a power trip.

jack2001

March 16th, 2018, 11:38 PM

It needs just one shot. Remember Kennedy?
Kennedy's assassination didn't destroy the entire government

Agent X

March 22nd, 2018, 12:16 AM

Spooky_Eli

March 22nd, 2018, 05:49 AM

Kennedy's assassination didn't destroy the entire governmentit only kept the country at war.. oh wait, thats a big thing.

mattsmith48

March 22nd, 2018, 12:54 PM

I personally did not participate, as my school made it a political cause advocating for stricter gun laws, a measure I cannot get behind. Instead, we went outside during the 17 minutes and prayed with the group of friends for healing within their communities, and for the victims' families. We felt that was a more productive way to spend our time and still keep our beliefs.

First you are not suppose to pray at school. Now on a sarcastic note, yeah prayers, thats gonna fix things.

it only kept the country at war.. oh wait, thats a big thing.

Didn't really change anything, when is the last time the US weren't at war?

jack2001

March 24th, 2018, 03:47 PM

it only kept the country at war.. oh wait, thats a big thing.

The cold war, you mean? The one where no actual war happened?

PlasmaHam

March 24th, 2018, 06:40 PM

First you are not suppose to pray at school. Now on a sarcastic note, yeah prayers, thats gonna fix things.
We all know you are anti-free speech and anti-freedom of worship, but you gotta get your facts straight. Students can pray at school all they want, there isn't some anti-praying taskforce that goes around kicking out kids for blessing their food. Perhaps Canadian schools have a prayer-patrol, but not American.

And on to your second point. Would you mind explaining how walking out of classes and laying down pretending to be dead is going to fix anything?

Ignoring religion, public prayer is a demonstration, just like pretending to be dead on a school parking lot. It is a demonstration of care and compassion towards those whose died, and their families. It's a demonstration towards people that we will be with you, and that we do not wish this upon anyone else. It's a demonstration of commitment to preventing this from happening again, but through love. If you didn't have such a burning hatred of religion you may appreciate it, but thus is your burden. From my perspective, and I imagine many others, the demonstrations of the Left focus not upon love towards the victims, but hatred towards the perpetrators. And hate, especially blind and misguided hate, is never good.

For someone who is so pro-2nd amendment and the for the right to people to own guns no matter what, it is incredible how much you are against the right of the students to protest the gun laws.
Students can protest gun-laws, sure. That does not mean that the school has to let them walk out of classes with no consequences. If the kids were only prohibited because of some political bias by the administrators, then that's a different story. If a school allowed pro-gun activists, but prohibited anti-gun activists, then I would say that the school was in the wrong. But prohibiting the kids because of standard policy or fears that such a protest could get out of hand is fine by me.

Again, I'm as much for allowing students to express their anti-gun agenda in schools just as I am for allowing students to express their religious beliefs in school. How about you?

Sailor Mars

March 24th, 2018, 07:53 PM

There’s nothing wrong with thoughts and prayers. There’s everything wrong with ONLY thoughts and prayers!!!

Btw, some pics from today at the march. Take notes!!!
https://imgur.com/QYcX30Q.jpg
https://imgur.com/2acw47b.jpg
https://imgur.com/KvZPrvw.jpg
https://imgur.com/DWuUcBS.jpg

Dalcourt

March 24th, 2018, 11:16 PM

mattsmith48

March 25th, 2018, 12:24 AM

Mars I just love the sign on the third picture you posted.

We all know you are anti-free speech and anti-freedom of worship, but you gotta get your facts straight. Students can pray at school all they want, there isn't some anti-praying taskforce that goes around kicking out kids for blessing their food. Perhaps Canadian schools have a prayer-patrol, but not American.

Schools are suppose to be secular places that means no prayers.

And on to your second point. Would you mind explaining how walking out of classes and laying down pretending to be dead is going to fix anything?

Ignoring religion, public prayer is a demonstration, just like pretending to be dead on a school parking lot. It is a demonstration of care and compassion towards those whose died, and their families. It's a demonstration towards people that we will be with you, and that we do not wish this upon anyone else. It's a demonstration of commitment to preventing this from happening again, but through love. If you didn't have such a burning hatred of religion you may appreciate it, but thus is your burden. From my perspective, and I imagine many others, the demonstrations of the Left focus not upon love towards the victims, but hatred towards the perpetrators. And hate, especially blind and misguided hate, is never good.

The walkouts are about protesting, making a statement and bringing attention to an issue. Praying for the victims is focusing on the people who were killed or injured and the families of the victims hoping they will be fine and used as a way to avoid the real problem and find solutions to prevent more people from getting killed or injured.

Students can protest gun-laws, sure. That does not mean that the school has to let them walk out of classes with no consequences. If the kids were only prohibited because of some political bias by the administrators, then that's a different story. If a school allowed pro-gun activists, but prohibited anti-gun activists, then I would say that the school was in the wrong. But prohibiting the kids because of standard policy or fears that such a protest could get out of hand is fine by me.

Again, I'm as much for allowing students to express their anti-gun agenda in schools just as I am for allowing students to express their religious beliefs in school. How about you?

Except for the religion part that's a lot more reasonable, next time go with something like that instead of shit like this.

Seriously? You really shouldn't be encouraging teenagers to harass teachers and schools just because they prohibited students from walking out on classes. That's like me handing out the names of colleges and their administrators who refused to allow students to skip classes to go the March for Life, and then encouraging pro-life students to target, harass, and sue them. On a mental health forum of all places.

What you are advocating for is just trolling, plain and simple. Harassing people because they didn't give you or your friends special privileges, that's the actions of a spoiled brat, not the intelligent and sensible teenager I assumed you were. I hope you will reconsider your offer of supported targeted harassment here, because right now you have lost a lot of good will in my mind

Uniquemind

March 25th, 2018, 04:09 AM

As I understand it, my school allows prayer and even a Christian-themed student run club to exist, however it cannot be an organized worship/ prayer in a sense that peer pressure is involved in bullying or indoctrination into a faith; compounded by public funds.

Also prayers need not be said allowed verbally, you can pray with your heart and mind and God still hears it. Such rules against prayer on a personal relationship with one’s faith is unenforceable.

But with regards to others here, no I really don’t think school officials are exercising their power appropriately to punish students for this particular movement.

There are times in history for which the standard rules do not apply because the epistemic system for which such rules stood upon, broke down, and in this movement of the marches are not saying it’s okay to ditch school just because I want to.

It’s saying let’s pause our school lessons for a organized block of time, meaning lesson plans can be created around the event advance notice was given, and perhaps get school officials involved to create a safe atmosphere for a civics demonstration that many are doing.

I’m sorry I don’t think that’s a special privilege, I think it’s a rare point in time where a default right is to be exercised.

One clue is that you have school officials not even allowing parents to pull their children out of school for such a cause, I’m sorry but that seems illegal to me and odd.

I have friends whose parents have pulled their kids out from classes just so their Winter holiday airplane trip time can be extended for their convenience.

So you might disagree with me but I can’t stay silent on my argument being attacked the way it was a few pages ago.

I also need to address I never advocated anything illegal or of a harassing nature, that was an added in implication from interpretation of my former few posts.

I said students should send messages of support for walking out to those that faced consequences, and we should know which schools supported and which don’t. Lawsuits are not harassment, they follow the rule of law. So to equate the two is a false equivalency.

But the public should know which school officials and teachers are abusing their power without giving a true justification as to why, rather than a curated public relations surface statement.

Such data tells parents and teachers who and where to live because of local school officials in that town supports safety and change or not.

The whole point of the Marches is that the safety in school, is an illusion and any risk of protest has on safety is simply taking your risks now, rather than follow the “illusion of security” school provides and still pay with your life later.

I know my posts are being ignored now, but I don’t think I’ve been proven wrong, and I’ll accept when I’m proven wrong but so far it seems my arguments still stand.

You let personal feelings about me affect whether you engage in discussion with me, are part of the polarization problem in Congress. Don’t follow their same mental mistakes and give up conversation.

Sailor Mars

March 25th, 2018, 06:54 AM

Great pics Mars.

I was at the March here in the city, too.

A girl had a sign that said:" Girl's clothes at school are more regulated than guns."

And sadly this seems so true sometimes. People in some places here get so upset about what or what not is decent to wear but they put their believe in there right to own a gun over the safety of their children.

And yeah, nothing wrong with thoughts and prayers but thoughts and prayers always come when innocent people have died already but do nothing to protect other innocent people from dying.But taking action and making new laws can prevent people from dying.

I saw a ton saying
“Arms are for hugs”
“Only thing easier to buy than a gun is a politician”
“Can’t believe I’m stick marching for this shit”
“As a woman, I could only begin to hope to have as many rights as a gun”
“Gays against guns”
And a ton of meme posters :P Was hilarious... but sadly true

PlasmaHam

March 25th, 2018, 12:13 PM

“As a woman, I could only begin to hope to have as many rights as a gun”

Women have to get a permit to be shown in public? Women are prohibited from schools, public parks, and any other place with a "no women allowed" sign? Women can't cross state or national lines? Women can't be in the same house as felons? Must a pregnant mother go through a background check before she is allowed to give birth to a girl? Can you be fined hundreds of dollars and possibly thrown in prison if you are found with a woman obtained via an unlicensed woman dealer?

Sorry, but this argument always cracks me up. Don't believe everything you see on the streets, that's the lesson here.

mattsmith48

March 25th, 2018, 12:33 PM

Women have to get a permit to be shown in public? Women are prohibited from schools, public parks, and any other place with a "no women allowed" sign? Women can't cross state or national lines? Women can't be in the same house as felons? Must a pregnant mother go through a background check before she is allowed to give birth to a girl? Can you be fined hundreds of dollars and possibly thrown in prison if you are found with a woman obtained via an unlicensed woman dealer?

Sorry, but this argument always cracks me up. Don't believe everything you see on the streets, that's the lesson here.

For about the first 150 years of your country's existence women didn't have much rights and were seen by the law as inferior to men. The founding fathers did give more rights to guns then women when they wrote the constitution. But I think and I think you know, this sign is more a shot at the people who will do anything to fight to keep their right to have guns, but at the same time they wants to take away the rights of women including their right to do what they want with their body. In other words those people see the right to bear arms as more important then the rights of women.

Uniquemind

March 25th, 2018, 04:00 PM

I’m also gonna add this religious metaphor:

If thoughts and prayers were enough, then why did Jesus physically have to die on the cross rather than verbally command original sin away from the Earth at the will of the Father?

Because thoughts and prayers while important, are the foundation for righteous action, meaning real physical actions and events to be done by others that follow.

The problem is that mankind thinks laws will save them without actions, that such actions are rebellious all the time and because of the way humanity views power, it has a hard time recognizing righteousness rebellion, from unrighteous rebellion. Especially since there’s this “air of perfection” around the Constitution, that as written it’s perfect and suggesting arguments and changes too is is like evil. It’s not, it’s a deep important process, but the concept of change should not envoke such a reaction as it does.

This is why I’ve been labeled a troll, but think about this for a second with the notion that hindsight is always 20/20.

If slavery was still real, or if you were born in a time where women’s rights being suppressed were taught as normal status quo, and deviations from that were bad as were the people who wanted change THEN.

Would you promote change or fight against it? I bring up these examples because this mental pattern of thinking and then mental lines of where one takes personal offense repeats itself while the issue debated change.

I am no troll, but I have tackled the framework of how one thinks, and views powerstructure in the world, that for them is a topic closely associated to their personal identity. So therefore it feels like I’m a troll to them but I assure you I’m just discussing controversial lines of argument.

Remember the best thinkers of the Greek and Roman era were also persecuted for their thoughts as well.

Dalcourt

March 26th, 2018, 01:13 AM

Sorry, but this argument always cracks me up. Don't believe everything you see on the streets, that's the lesson here.

You DO get that slogans are often exaggerated to get you attention and make you think?

It's done likewise in ads or in news headers

Stronk Serb

March 26th, 2018, 06:49 PM

For about the first 150 years of your country's existence women didn't have much rights and were seen by the law as inferior to men. The founding fathers did give more rights to guns then women when they wrote the constitution. But I think and I think you know, this sign is more a shot at the people who will do anything to fight to keep their right to have guns, but at the same time they wants to take away the rights of women including their right to do what they want with their body. In other words those people see the right to bear arms as more important then the rights of women.

You do forget that most of the world treated women as second-class citizens at that time. Literally only post WWI did women worldwide start getting equal rights. Canada is an exception, they gave women rights before WWI I think.

mattsmith48

March 27th, 2018, 12:49 PM

You do forget that most of the world treated women as second-class citizens at that time. Literally only post WWI did women worldwide start getting equal rights. Canada is an exception, they gave women rights before WWI I think.

No I didn't forget it, it is just irrelevant to the discussion because we are only talking about the US comparing the rights of guns and rights or lack of of women and how it got to this point and how it continues to be the case today.

PlasmaHam

March 27th, 2018, 01:20 PM

For about the first 150 years of your country's existence women didn't have much rights and were seen by the law as inferior to men. The founding fathers did give more rights to guns then women when they wrote the constitution.
Wait, so you are saying that the 2nd Amendment from the Founding Fathers' point of view is to protect the right for citizens to own firearms? Wow. I thought the Left's mantra was that the 2nd Amendment was seen by the Founding Fathers as only applying to a militia, and that it was only misconstrued later by conservatives into protecting private gun ownership. But you, as radical a Leftie as can be, are publicly admitting that the Founding Fathers wrote the 2nd Amendment to protect gun rights. That's just amazing.

But I think and I think you know, this sign is more a shot at the people who will do anything to fight to keep their right to have guns, but at the same time they wants to take away the rights of women including their right to do what they want with their body. In other words those people see the right to bear arms as more important then the rights of women.
Oh, I'm sorry for not wanting to give women the "right" to murder unborn children. Please get back to your protests about stopping the murder of children. Oh, wait...

mattsmith48

March 27th, 2018, 01:43 PM

Wait, so you are saying that the 2nd Amendment from the Founding Fathers' point of view is to protect the right for citizens to own firearms? Wow. I thought the Left's mantra was that the 2nd Amendment was seen by the Founding Fathers as only applying to a militia, and that it was only misconstrued later by conservatives into protecting private gun ownership. But you, as radical a Leftie as can be, are publicly admitting that the Founding Fathers wrote the 2nd Amendment to protect gun rights. That's just amazing.

I never said who they said had the right to have guns, I only said they gave more rights to guns then women.

Oh, I'm sorry for not wanting to give women the "right" to murder unborn children. Please get back to your protests about stopping the murder of children. Oh, wait...

Yeah, lets stop abortion, the only time children should be murdered is in school so rednecks can keep their fantasy of overthrowing the government alive. You see the hypocrisy here right? At least I and I am pretty sure the women holding the sign does too, see abortion as a right of a woman to do what she want with her body and not as murder. But I know which side you are on, on that issue and I know you see children getting shot at school as murder or at least hope, but yet you are ready to take rights away from women to protect children in the womb, but you are not ready to give away your right to have a gun to protect children in the school.

PlasmaHam

March 27th, 2018, 03:05 PM

I never said who they said had the right to have guns, I only said they gave more rights to guns then women.

Lol, you can't give rights to inanimate objects. You can give rights to individuals to own and possess guns, but you can't give rights to guns themselves. Guns don't have a right to free speech or a right to vote, because guess what, they're guns!

Yeah, lets stop abortion, the only time children should be murdered is in school so rednecks can keep their fantasy of overthrowing the government alive. Children shouldn't be murdered in school, I think we can all agree on that. The only problem is how we stop it while respecting the rights of millions of other Americans. We can't just be going around abolishing Constitutional Rights because a tiny minority somehow abused those rights. After all, that is essentially what the Patriot Act did in response to 9/11, and look how unpopular that now is. All sides want to do something about it, the disagreement is on how. Insisting that one side doesn't care about the murder of children is not helping solve anything, it's just riling up pointless conflict.

You see the hypocrisy here right? At least I and I am pretty sure the women holding the sign does too, see abortion as a right of a woman to do what she want with her body and not as murder.Nazi's thought killing Jews wasn't murder either. Just because you convince yourself that a wrong isn't wrong, that doesn't mean you are in anyway righteous in your beliefs.

But I know which side you are on, on that issue and I know you see children getting shot at school as murder or at least hope, but yet you are ready to take rights away from women to protect children in the womb, but you are not ready to give away your right to have a gun to protect children in the school.Abortion is a long topic, so I'm not continuing this rabbit-trail from here on. If you keep insisting that I don't care about children being killed, then I'm ending this conversation all together. Your problem here is simple, you believe that the only solution is to end child murder in the schools is to ban all guns, and that the rights to protect and arm yourself does not matter. But there are alternatives that respect the rights of gun-owners, and protect children, like additional school security, arming teachers, and better training of police and federal agencies to spot and stop potential shooters.

Abortion, on the other hand, doesn't really have any alternatives. Either a woman has a right to kill an unborn baby, or she doesn't. That issue is cut and dry, there aren't any alternatives that can respect the rights of the child's life, and the mother's wants. Stopping murders in schools is not so cut and dry. There are potential alternatives and compromises that don't require stripping the rights of either side. As someone from a country where rights aren't as defined and protected, you may not be able to understand this, but here in America we believe that stripping Constitutional rights from individuals is a last resort, not the first call, to solving a crisis.

mattsmith48

March 28th, 2018, 12:18 AM

Children shouldn't be murdered in school, I think we can all agree on that. The only problem is how we stop it while respecting the rights of millions of other Americans. We can't just be going around abolishing Constitutional Rights because a tiny minority somehow abused those rights. After all, that is essentially what the Patriot Act did in response to 9/11, and look how unpopular that now is. All sides want to do something about it, the disagreement is on how. Insisting that one side doesn't care about the murder of children is not helping solve anything, it's just riling up pointless conflict.

The is a difference between having your government spying on you for no reason and taking away military weapons from civilians to protect the population.

Nazi's thought killing Jews wasn't murder either. Just because you convince yourself that a wrong isn't wrong, that doesn't mean you are in anyway righteous in your beliefs.
Abortion is a long topic, so I'm not continuing this rabbit-trail from here on. If you keep insisting that I don't care about children being killed, then I'm ending this conversation all together. Your problem here is simple, you believe that the only solution is to end child murder in the schools is to ban all guns, and that the rights to protect and arm yourself does not matter. But there are alternatives that respect the rights of gun-owners, and protect children, like additional school security, arming teachers, and better training of police and federal agencies to spot and stop potential shooters.

Abortion, on the other hand, doesn't really have any alternatives. Either a woman has a right to kill an unborn baby, or she doesn't. That issue is cut and dry, there aren't any alternatives that can respect the rights of the child's life, and the mother's wants. Stopping murders in schools is not so cut and dry. There are potential alternatives and compromises that don't require stripping the rights of either side. As someone from a country where rights aren't as defined and protected, you may not be able to understand this, but here in America we believe that stripping Constitutional rights from individuals is a last resort, not the first call, to solving a crisis.

Your problem, by your I mean the entire US, is that you see guns as a right, when it is not and shouldn't be a right. They are two ways to look at this, either you recognize what the problem is and do something about it, or you try to avoid the problem and either do nothing about it or do something that actually makes things worst like arming the teachers, which I compared to if your solution to your car breaking down was to put tape over the check engine light, so you can keep your fantasy of overthrowing the government alive. As long as you can't understand that these shooting will continue to happen and children will continue to be murdered in school all because of your inaction on an issue the rest of the world figured out a long time ago.

Dmaxd123

March 28th, 2018, 05:07 AM

The is a difference between having your government spying on you for no reason and taking away military weapons from civilians to protect the population.

Your problem, by your I mean the entire US, is that you see guns as a right, when it is not and shouldn't be a right. They are two ways to look at this, either you recognize what the problem is and do something about it, or you try to avoid the problem and either do nothing about it or do something that actually makes things worst like arming the teachers, which I compared to if your solution to your car breaking down was to put tape over the check engine light, so you can keep your fantasy of overthrowing the government alive. As long as you can't understand that these shooting will continue to happen and children will continue to be murdered in school all because of your inaction on an issue the rest of the world figured out a long time ago.

the ar-15 isn't a "military" weapon in all honesty the deer rifles in the family gun safe are capable of more damage at greater ranges. the AR platform is semi auto looks like the military version but the military version has full auto capabilities. the state of NY has already gotten into banning things based upon looks (yup racism/sexism for guns if it looks bad it must be bad)

you state that guns are not a right. the second amendment declares otherwise

school shootings are a problem, no one is going to deny that BUT on the grand scale of what kills the most kids/year guns in general are pretty low on the list so although those of us in the the US can probably all agree with some middle ground gun control taking away all guns isn't the right option by a long shot

Sailor Mars

March 28th, 2018, 06:38 AM

you state that guns are not a right. the second amendment declares otherwise
Uh, have you read the bill of rights before?... it says right to have an organized and armed militia... and that was during a time when they were still arguing about how much power the federal government should have, when black people were counted as 3/5ths of a person, women were hardly even considered people, and the term minute men was coined because the fastest they could fire an inaccurate weapon was a round a minute.

mattsmith48

March 28th, 2018, 10:38 AM

school shootings are a problem, no one is going to deny that BUT on the grand scale of what kills the most kids/year guns in general are pretty low on the list so although those of us in the the US can probably all agree with some middle ground gun control taking away all guns isn't the right option by a long shot

School shootings are not the problem the problem is what caused the school shootings to happen.

PlasmaHam

March 28th, 2018, 12:24 PM

and the term minute men was coined because the fastest they could fire an inaccurate weapon was a round a minute.
#FAKENEWS

Seriously, this is completely and 100% false on so many levels.

First, "Minute-men" were called minute-men because it was said they could be ready to fight, "in a minute". They were essentially trained farmers, merchants, and others who, once called upon, would abandon their tasks, grab their guns, and be ready to fight with the colonial forces almost immediately. I'm really surprised you don't know this, as this is quite basic knowledge regarding the American Revolution.

Secondly, the average rate of fire for a musket (the weapon of your typical field solider) was around 3-4 shots per minute. Only a really slow shooter would be around a minute. And during this time there was experimentation with early automatic or rapid-fire weapons, many of which were funded by the Continental Congress for potential use in the Revolution.

Third, the guns of the American forces were far from inaccurate. Guns have been around for 2 centuries prior, and there had been many advances. Muskets, the weapon of your average foot solider, were accurate between 100-200 yards, depending on skill levels and whether the muskets were rifled or not. And the Kentucky Long Rifle, the "sniper" gun of the Revolution was accurate upwards of 300 yards. While modern guns, with their precision-refined barrels and the use of scopes, can out shoot them in term of range and accuracy, shooting 200-300 yards is nothing to scoff at. You try shooting a modern rifle with no scope at just 100 yards and no skill, and you'll understand.

Snowfox

March 28th, 2018, 01:09 PM

#FAKENEWS

Seriously, this is completely and 100% false on so many levels.

First, "Minute-men" were called minute-men because it was said they could be ready to fight, "in a minute". They were essentially trained farmers, merchants, and others who, once called upon, would abandon their tasks, grab their guns, and be ready to fight with the colonial forces almost immediately. I'm really surprised you don't know this, as this is quite basic knowledge regarding the American Revolution.

Secondly, the average rate of fire for a musket (the weapon of your typical field solider) was around 3-4 shots per minute. Only a really slow shooter would be around a minute. And during this time there was experimentation with early automatic or rapid-fire weapons, many of which were funded by the Continental Congress for potential use in the Revolution.

Third, the guns of the American forces were far from inaccurate. Guns have been around for 2 centuries prior, and there had been many advances. Muskets, the weapon of your average foot solider, were accurate between 100-200 yards, depending on skill levels and whether the muskets were rifled or not. And the Kentucky Long Rifle, the "sniper" gun of the Revolution was accurate upwards of 300 yards. While modern guns, with their precision-refined barrels and the use of scopes, can out shoot them in term of range and accuracy, shooting 200-300 yards is nothing to scoff at. You try shooting a modern rifle with no scope at just 100 yards and no skill, and you'll understand.

I would like to add few things.
Rifled musket is called rifle so it is muzzle loading rifle not musket.
Typical musket of time was brown bess. and rate of fire was around 3-4 rounds minute maximum in case they used paper cartridges.
Rifled muzzleloaders were very slow to load because black powder fouling in riflings had to be cleaned. smoothbore musket was faster firing.

First shot was most accurate because follow up shots were fired from dirty gun and therefore shooter had to use undersized balls as bullets. At time there was custom to have one set of bigger balls for first shots and second set for follow up shots.

I like muzzle loaders

Stronk Serb

March 28th, 2018, 02:18 PM

No I didn't forget it, it is just irrelevant to the discussion because we are only talking about the US comparing the rights of guns and rights or lack of of women and how it got to this point and how it continues to be the case today.

Not really. There is more sexism elsewhere in the civilized world than in the US. The US is pretty egalitarian. Here in the rural areas wife-beatings are still a thing, you know? A man has restrictions on obtaining firearms, but still beats his wife. Four decades of communism didn't stop that. You are barking at the wrong tree.

Snowfox

March 29th, 2018, 06:13 AM

Not really. There is more sexism elsewhere in the civilized world than in the US. The US is pretty egalitarian. Here in the rural areas wife-beatings are still a thing, you know? A man has restrictions on obtaining firearms, but still beats his wife. Four decades of communism didn't stop that. You are barking at the wrong tree.

Just out of curiosity how do you see wife beating. I have heard that my dad used to beat my mom when drunk.

Sailor Mars

March 29th, 2018, 06:33 AM

Keep this thread on topic please. Feel free to take any discussions into private messages or new threads.

Stronk Serb

March 29th, 2018, 11:08 AM

Just out of curiosity how do you see wife beating. I have heard that my dad used to beat my mom when drunk.

I see it as a disgusting thing. If my my father, or a man in general raised a hand on my mother or any woman I hold dear, I would break his nose. I also don't like when people compare apples and oragnes, or in this case guns and women. It's not the same. You can't legally buy a woman, like you can buy a gun. Also to be with a woman, you do not need to hassle yourself with the papereork and checks like you have to with a gun.

Anyway, I doubt marches would accomplish anything soon. It only happens when there is support from the instituational elites.

Snowfox

March 29th, 2018, 02:36 PM

I see it as a disgusting thing. If my my father, or a man in general raised a hand on my mother or any woman I hold dear, I would break his nose. I also don't like when people compare apples and oragnes, or in this case guns and women. It's not the same. You can't legally buy a woman, like you can buy a gun. Also to be with a woman, you do not need to hassle yourself with the papereork and checks like you have to with a gun.

Anyway, I doubt marches would accomplish anything soon. It only happens when there is support from the instituational elites.

You are right iin some things. Its anyway hard for me to hate someone who is my father.My brother was my dad in real sense while my biodad wasnt around for plethora of reasons.

Anyhow I like guns i grew up with guns and hunting and shooting sports I see these anti gun people offending my cultural backround.
I see it offending. Like they somehow want to put me into some pocket of so called society. without my approval

Billy1212

May 4th, 2018, 07:21 AM