Spirituality Should Oversee Religion.

[Sweeney05]

I don't consider myself to be a religious person at all. I don't believe in any form of God or the afterlife. But I am spiritual. I particularly like the Hindu philosophy. I think this is what religion was trying to teach us, spirituality, but we all got hung up on the wrong stuff.

[Arkansasguy]

The claim that a few irreligious people in the modern era understand what religion is really about better than all of the actual adherents of religion throughout the ages.

It's also not clear what "spirituality" even means when divorced from religion. Religion is (by definition) about worshiping God. What spirits are you cavorting with if not God?

[Sweeney05]

The claim that a few irreligious people in the modern era understand what religion is really about better than all of the actual adherents of religion throughout the ages.

It's also not clear what "spirituality" even means when divorced from religion. Religion is (by definition) about worshiping God. What spirits are you cavorting with if not God?

Just because I am claiming this doesn't mean I don't understand religion. I've been brought up Catholic my whole life. Spirituality doesn't mean ghosties and an afterlife and an omnipresent master of the universe. Divorced from religion it still stands because it's a completely separate thing. But they do walk hand in hand when paired together. Spirituality just means that you are at peace with how the world works and that there may be a higher order to things, but that doesn't nessessaraly mean a conscious being that created it all.

[PlasmaHam]

Spirituality, to me, seems very much like people who feel the void caused by lack of faith, and decide to fill it with handpicked, self-help doctrine, and pretend like it is a valid substitute. Basically those who feel like there is a greater calling outside the physical realm, but don't actually want to sacrifice anything, or confront truths that might make them uncomfortable. The "God" of spirituality is yourself, defining personal dogma, paths to enlightenment, and morality.

That may sound harsh, but that's how I see it. Spirituality is essentially a religion based around yourself. I have yet to see a single person give a good argument as to how spirituality is any different from religion, nevermind superior.

[Sweeney05]

Spirituality, to me, seems very much like people who feel the void caused by lack of faith, and decide to fill it with handpicked, self-help doctrine, and pretend like it is a valid substitute. Basically those who feel like there is a greater calling outside the physical realm, but don't actually want to sacrifice anything, or confront truths that might make them uncomfortable. The "God" of spirituality is yourself, defining personal dogma, paths to enlightenment, and morality.

That may sound harsh, but that's how I see it. Spirituality is essentially a religion based around yourself. I have yet to see a single person give a good argument as to how spirituality is any different from religion, nevermind superior.


Yeah, you do make a valid point there.

[Anthony17]

I don't consider myself to be a religious person at all. I don't believe in any form of God or the afterlife. But I am spiritual. I particularly like the Hindu philosophy. I think this is what religion was trying to teach us, spirituality, but we all got hung up on the wrong stuff.

Enlighten me.

[Arkansasguy]

Just because I am claiming this doesn't mean I don't understand religion. I've been brought up Catholic my whole life. Spirituality doesn't mean ghosties and an afterlife and an omnipresent master of the universe. Divorced from religion it still stands because it's a completely separate thing. But they do walk hand in hand when paired together. Spirituality just means that you are at peace with how the world works and that there may be a higher order to things, but that doesn't nessessaraly mean a conscious being that created it all.

Your personal level of knowledge wasn't the point of what I said. The claim that people two thousand years after the fact understand what Christianity is "really about" better than all before them is a priori absurd.

Accepting that there's order in the world (and being at peace with that fact) is just rudimentary maturity. It's not much as far as giving meaning to life goes.

[Tim the Enchanter]

What's spirituality?

[Sweeney05]

What's spirituality?

Being at peace with yourself. Thinking that the universe is a higher power in and of itself, but that doesn't necessarily mean somebody (God) is controlling it.

[Tim the Enchanter]

Being at peace with yourself. Thinking that the universe is a higher power in and of itself, but that doesn't necessarily mean somebody (God) is controlling it.

Oh ok, I understand I guess.

[NewLeafsFan]

For me being spiritually at peace with myself requires me to be a humanitarian and put that before religion. I heard a beautiful story once about a Sikh man marrying a Hindu girl in India. The girls father said that he was a humanitarian before he was any religion and that it was better for his daughter to be with a wonderful Sikh than an ordinary Hindu. They're still married today.

I'll get back on topic, I am a Catholic but like the Sikhs I believe that it is more important to be at peace with your religion and be a good person than practice any particular faith. I also believe that there is good in every religion despite what the media claims.

[Tom_theflash]

You can be spiritual without being religious. Lots of people have done so. Someone doesn't have to have a religion in order to believe in God. Many people have a set of beliefs that maybe no religion could cover for them, so they become spiritual, thinking in the way that they believe in. Religion is an order of beliefs. If you don't follow it, if you don't agree with it not down to the point, then you don't believe in that religion. Spirituality is another thing. Both could go hand in hand.

[hayley2003]

i kinda think it is ridiculous to believe there is only one true religion and God only accepts people of that one religion. everyone else (about 99% of everyone who ever lived), is SOL.

as Mr Spock would say "it's illogical that a wise and all knowing god would reject everyone except a few"

[lliam]

Spirituality can't control religion. And it shouldn't do it anyway.

Religion is usually defined as a form of belief in one or more gods.

But since there is no real faith in something divine without personal spirituality, spirituality becomes the foundation of religion.

Religion is therefore nothing else than individual spirituality, which culminates as personal spirituality of many persons in a common spiritual context.

And this context negates more and more the personal spiritual experience, because the individual enters a social community of faith.

For communities to exist, definitions of shared spirituality must develop.

This expresses itself in a belief in something divine. That this divine then often assumes form and personality it's in the nature of humans, since we as a mass rather have an easier relation to something personal as to something abstract as divinity or spirituality is.

But the more complex and ritual religion becomes, the more abstracted but rational based is the spiritual experience for an indiuum. Personal spirituality is based less on rationality than on emotionality. There's a lack of emotionality

Religion is an acquired spirituality at this stage, a very contrary concept to innate or natural spirituality.

In fact, it is impossible to experience spirituality when it is educated ... or even regulated.

That may also be the reason for the existence of superstition and doubt.

As for constitutionalized and regulated spirituality (religion) is usually contrary to our personal rational and emotional experience. And this two parts no longer finds balance, which is probably the task of our ability to be able to experience spiritually.


My conclusion from this point in relation to this thread is that no further regulation or control should take place.

Something impossible would have to be demanded: Namely humans had to be educated to individuals, uninfluenced by any kind of doctrine.


That would mean totally chaos in the eyes of most decision makers. But also that parents are no longer allowed to bring up their kids in the traditions inherited from their ancestors. They could only live them, but not ask their children to accept them.

Ultimately, this would be something that could allow an self-responsible, adult individual to maintain a very personal balance between ratio and emotion, but it also means any individual have to constantly negotiate a new context in living with other individuals - something so cruel what even anarchists would back away from, I suppose.

[Uniquemind]

Spirituality can't control religion. And it shouldn't do it anyway.

Religion is usually defined as a form of belief in one or more gods.

But since there is no real faith in something divine without personal spirituality, spirituality becomes the foundation of religion.

Religion is therefore nothing else than individual spirituality, which culminates as personal spirituality of many persons in a common spiritual context.

And this context negates more and more the personal spiritual experience, because the individual enters a social community of faith.

For communities to exist, definitions of shared spirituality must develop.

This expresses itself in a belief in something divine. That this divine then often assumes form and personality it's in the nature of humans, since we as a mass rather have an easier relation to something personal as to something abstract as divinity or spirituality is.

But the more complex and ritual religion becomes, the more abstracted but rational based is the spiritual experience for an indiuum. Personal spirituality is based less on rationality than on emotionality. There's a lack of emotionality

Religion is an acquired spirituality at this stage, a very contrary concept to innate or natural spirituality.

In fact, it is impossible to experience spirituality when it is educated ... or even regulated.

That may also be the reason for the existence of superstition and doubt.

As for constitutionalized and regulated spirituality (religion) is usually contrary to our personal rational and emotional experience. And this two parts no longer finds balance, which is probably the task of our ability to be able to experience spiritually.


My conclusion from this point in relation to this thread is that no further regulation or control should take place.

Something impossible would have to be demanded: Namely humans had to be educated to individuals, uninfluenced by any kind of doctrine.


That would mean totally chaos in the eyes of most decision makers. But also that parents are no longer allowed to bring up their kids in the traditions inherited from their ancestors. They could only live them, but not ask their children to accept them.

Ultimately, this would be something that could allow an self-responsible, adult individual to maintain a very personal balance between ratio and emotion, but it also means any individual have to constantly negotiate a new context in living with other individuals - something so cruel what even anarchists would back away from, I suppose.


I cherish the point in which humanity can achieve the sentiment expressed in your last 2 paragraphs of what I'm quoting.

I've experienced too many paranormal experiences to say there isn't such a thing as thought and consciousness after the brain has deteriorated and died, which is how I define a soul.

However I must warn you, there exist a variety of different kinds of spirits just as their is a variety of physical lifeforms.

And religion seems to also characterize a polarization of these experiences as well in many cultures regarding demons and angels.

--

I have a family friend who also works at hospital and morgue, and she tells us among the staff there, sometimes supernatural things happen when a patient who dies is upset doctors couldn't save them. (Medical equipment moves, etc.)


There is also many security camera footage from various places showing psychokinesis by invisible spirits as well.


So I just want to preface this that spirituality is not as whitewashed as we make it out to be even if we take the religion out of it.

[mattsmith48]

Spirituality is a religion for people who don't like any of the organized religions, but still want or need to believe there is a greater power.

[RavenTheGoddess]

You can be spiritual without being religious. Lots of people have done so. Someone doesn't have to have a religion in order to believe in God. Many people have a set of beliefs that maybe no religion could cover for them, so they become spiritual, thinking in the way that they believe in. Religion is an order of beliefs. If you don't follow it, if you don't agree with it not down to the point, then you don't believe in that religion. Spirituality is another thing. Both could go hand in hand.

I agree with you. That's why I left Christianity for Theravada Buddhism, because Christianity just isn't for me. Not many people agree with my decision though, not to mention it's debated that Buddhism isn't a religion (which I call bs on.)

The only thing I don't like about religion are the extremists and the nutcases. Believing in a religion is one thing, but resorting to something that goes against what you believe to protect what you believe when there's no real threat to it is ridiculous. People take Christianity to that kind of level quite often, even going so far as to disown a family member because of things like sexual orientation. It's for this reason that I feel like people can be blinded by religion, losing themselves in it. That's only my opinion though.