North Korea- facts and fiction?

[Stronk Serb]

Okay, so about our favourite, and undoubtedly best Korea, what about the Hermit Kingdom are facts and what is fiction? Due to some misinformation spreading, I take all about North Korea with a grain of salt. The following is what I am willing to believe, or not discsrd as total garbage fabricated by the media.

Nuclear weapons. Even their government says that it has them. The West keeps accusing them of having nukes, they do not even deny it.

The country is definitely not poor. Pyongyang is full of rich people who behave like western aristocrats. Also according to many defectors and some sources, only the fiercest loyalists to the regime and those who contribute to the regime the most live in Pyongyang.

Based on a few YouTube videos I watched on a channel that deals in news from Asia (Asianboss, look them up) and their interview of defectors, I think that outside the capital city life is shit. At least as much as in Serbia in the most rural parts. Plus the threat to be sent into a Korean version of a gulag.

One defector said that they don't execute citizens who are caught in China or elsewhere for leaving North Korea, at least not anymore, and are willing to give smaller labor camp sentences if the defector comes back himself.

Still, much is murky about the Hermit Kingdom. I plan on touristically visiting the country, but even then I might not learn much unless the country opens up.

Also what I heard in the news is that North Korea is going to send a delegation to talk with one from thr South and the Ministry for the Unification of the Fatherland is going to start doing something, I say something because it was pretty dormant for the last few years or more.

If you want, I can link the interviews for your viewing pleasure when I wake up tomorrow.

So what do you think? What North Korea is like?

[SethfromMI]

Before I begin, I would like to recommend a book I recently read about a man who was moved to North Korea as a child and was able to finally escape (not from a prison camp, the country itself). It is called A River in Darkness: One Man's Escape from North Korea by Masaji Ishikawa. It doesn't answer every question one would have but it can give you some idea of what life can be like.


Well if you do go there, unless the current government there is overthrown you only see and hear what they want you to see and hear. They literally have someone with you the whole time. There may not be someone in the room to be with you, but I would be pretty surprised if the room you would be in wasn't bugged (that is more speculation though). It is a nation where the government is so controlling, they dictate even what type of haircuts people can get (from a list of options, but has to be on the list). The only tv there is governemnt controlled/sponsored tv. It is a cruel regime which is just brutal to its people. People are starved and worked hard. People are brainwashed from an early age. If you break simple laws or do not conform with the government, not only can you be sent to jail but in North Korea, they will often send your family to jail as well. From stories of people who have escaped, even if your not sentenced to death it can often end up being a death sentence. I honestly would be afraid to go. If they accused me of something, even if I didn't do it, I am not going to get a fair trial and my fate would not be promising. Even if I did not have something like that happen to me, I know the North Korean government is only showing me a lie. They want me to see things which make their country appear better than it really is and I know I am not going to get to see how things truly are.

As far as the military, nuclear weapons aspect, I am not sure what they have yet. If they have not have something which can reach the US, I do believe that is their goal. I do believe they have weapons which can greatly hurt not only our allies, but some of the military bases we have stationed in the Pacific. It has been a problem which has been building for decades. The war with North Korea never technically ended (in practicality maybe, but it is still technically going on).

I feel bad for the citizens of North Korea. They literally don't have a choice. When a dictator is willing to kill members of his own family in sadistic ways, what real hope or choice does a simple farmer have? They are a suffering, abused people and it is sad to think how many of them never get to know anything else and sadly may never be able too.

[NewLeafsFan]

I believe that they have nuclear weapons. The earth has seen the consequences for the testing that was required. It created an earthquake like groundshaking conditions. Still, the USA has more than they do so any invasion that they could try would be a total suicide mission.

Ans the majority of North Koreans are poor. Do so research on the literary rate, imports, how their farmers cut cost, average annual income, GDP as any of those show how poor the standards of living are.

[mattsmith48]

We have evidence independent of North Korea that they have nuclear weapons. We actually have more evidence for nuclear weapons in North Korea than in Israel. What we don't know is the range of those weapons which could be anywhere from the coast of Japan to New York. The reason they developed and built them is because Kim Jong Un is scared the US will do the same to him as they did to various dictators in the Middle East in the past couple decades. They say a lot of things, but for that reason I don't think they will ever use them as long he doesn't feel threaten, but also because China told them if North Korea attack first they are on their own.

The only ones who live well are the ones close to the dictator and his family, but the majority of the country live in extreme poverty mostly due to the sanctions put on the country, and that the majority of the resources they have go straight to the dictator and the military.

As for the talk between the North and South its more to release tensions and the possibility for North Korea to send athletes to the Olympics than unification, since they can't really unify before getting rid of the dictator in the North.

[rioo]

I just found this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North–South_differences_in_the_Korean_language

Differences in words of foreign origin
South Korea has borrowed a lot of English words, but North Korea has
borrowed a number of Russian words, and there are numerous differences in
words used between the two coming from these different borrowings.

[ShineintheDark]

We have evidence independent of North Korea that they have nuclear weapons. We actually have more evidence for nuclear weapons in North Korea than in Israel. What we don't know is the range of those weapons which could be anywhere from the coast of Japan to New York. The reason they developed and built them is because Kim Jong Un is scared the US will do the same to him as they did to various dictators in the Middle East in the past couple decades. They say a lot of things, but for that reason I don't think they will ever use them as long he doesn't feel threaten, but also because China told them if North Korea attack first they are on their own.


This is actually a very important point in understanding why the situation with Korea is as bad as it actually is. The Kim regime has never been the most democratic or equal to its people and the entire NK governmental system definitely needs to be rebuilt from the ground up but the fact of the matter is, the NK government would not be nearly as aggressive with the West if the US and UK didn't bomb the absolute shit out of North and South Korea indiscriminately before setting up what was essentially a puppet government in the South. This didn't help when the Vietnam War sparked out and the US did the exact same thing (until Ho Chi Minh took over in 1975). The fact is that, whilst not at all innocent of many a crime, NK is not wholly unjustified in seeing the US in particular as a fiercely aggressive policeman of the world that would wipe out NK at a moment's notice given half the chance. Of course the warhawk policy of the US did greatly calm after the end of the Cold War but the KIm family still retain their fear of any brutal reprisal of the Korean War.

[mattsmith48]

This is actually a very important point in understanding why the situation with Korea is as bad as it actually is. The Kim regime has never been the most democratic or equal to its people and the entire NK governmental system definitely needs to be rebuilt from the ground up but the fact of the matter is, the NK government would not be nearly as aggressive with the West if the US and UK didn't bomb the absolute shit out of North and South Korea indiscriminately before setting up what was essentially a puppet government in the South. This didn't help when the Vietnam War sparked out and the US did the exact same thing (until Ho Chi Minh took over in 1975). The fact is that, whilst not at all innocent of many a crime, NK is not wholly unjustified in seeing the US in particular as a fiercely aggressive policeman of the world that would wipe out NK at a moment's notice given half the chance. Of course the warhawk policy of the US did greatly calm after the end of the Cold War but the KIm family still retain their fear of any brutal reprisal of the Korean War.

The possibility of escalating into a war with China is the only reason the US didn't do it already.

[Stronk Serb]

The possibility of escalating into a war with China is the only reason the US didn't do it already.

And now there is a tangible threat of North Korean nukes.

Kim Jong Un looked back at all the dictators and democratic leader US overthrewy directly and indirectly.

Prime Minister Mossadegh
President Salvador Allende
Slobodan Milošević
Saddam Hussein
Muamar Ghaddafi
The attempted overthrow of Assad

I mean it makes you realize that they were overthrown instantly like Mossadegh, or like Slobodan Milošević, it took years to take him down, but they fell either way. What did they not have? Nuclear weapons that threaten the US and it's interests. I for one think every country should have nukes. It would make diplomacy and global bullying nonexistent because it only takes one fit of anger to screw it all up.

[mattsmith48]

And now there is a tangible threat of North Korean nukes.

Kim Jong Un looked back at all the dictators and democratic leader US overthrewy directly and indirectly.

Prime Minister Mossadegh
President Salvador Allende
Slobodan Milošević
Saddam Hussein
Muamar Ghaddafi
The attempted overthrow of Assad

That's what I've been saying for some time now. You could also add Castro who the US are responsible for more assassination against attempts than anyone else. For the nuclear weapons it could've been avoided by the US negotiating with them as soon as they made their first tests, guaranteeing him they won't go after him. Of course with President Stable Genius' ''everything Obama did equal bad'' policy, it would probably ended up like the Iran nuclear deal.

[Stronk Serb]

That's what I've been saying for some time now. You could also add Castro who the US are responsible for more assassination against attempts than anyone else. For the nuclear weapons it could've been avoided by the US negotiating with them as soon as they made their first tests, guaranteeing him they won't go after him. Of course with President Stable Genius' ''everything Obama did equal bad'' policy, it would probably ended up like the Iran nuclear deal.

He would have no reason to believe them. The US backstabbed it's allies and partners on so many occassions, so I guess their diplomatic reputation is zero. The thing that can work is to have them stop making nukes and in return lift all sanctions. Disarmament is impossible, now you can only prevent the NK from having a sizeable nuclear arsenal.

[Fiona2]

That's what I've been saying for some time now. You could also add Castro who the US are responsible for more assassination against attempts than anyone else. For the nuclear weapons it could've been avoided by the US negotiating with them as soon as they made their first tests, guaranteeing him they won't go after him. Of course with President Stable Genius' ''everything Obama did equal bad'' policy, it would probably ended up like the Iran nuclear deal.

NK wants deliverable nuclear weapons. The U.S. and other countries do not want them to have deliverable nuclear weapons. How would you see those negotiations working out?

[ShineintheDark]

NK wants deliverable nuclear weapons. The U.S. and other countries do not want them to have deliverable nuclear weapons. How would you see those negotiations working out? In all fairness, I doubt majority of the world actually have a stake in any of this. The US led the Korean War to take down the Kim dynasty and so NK only really has beef with the US and South Korea (also taking into account that the US makes up the bulk of South Korea's security forces too) therefore, whilst many nations may want to bring NK into the Non-Proliferation Treaty like most of the rest of the developed world, no nation wants to impede NK's nuclear testing more than the US does. Otherwise, Pakistan has no issues with it. Nor does Iran I bet. In fact, China really tow the line with what side they're on. The situation with Korea has more ties with other enemies of the US than it has ever had before since every state that opposes the US' involvement in world affairs have been talking for quite a long time and have some loose connections if things were to ever go wrong. That's why Pakistan has been under so much scrutiny after all.

[Fiona2]

In all fairness, I doubt majority of the world actually have a stake in any of this. The US led the Korean War to take down the Kim dynasty and so NK only really has beef with the US and South Korea (also taking into account that the US makes up the bulk of South Korea's security forces too) therefore, whilst many nations may want to bring NK into the Non-Proliferation Treaty like most of the rest of the developed world, no nation wants to impede NK's nuclear testing more than the US does. Otherwise, Pakistan has no issues with it. Nor does Iran I bet. In fact, China really tow the line with what side they're on. The situation with Korea has more ties with other enemies of the US than it has ever had before since every state that opposes the US' involvement in world affairs have been talking for quite a long time and have some loose connections if things were to ever go wrong. That's why Pakistan has been under so much scrutiny after all.

I don't think there are many nations that would be happy or even indifferent about NK having nuclear weapons. The fact that they may be slightly less concerned than the US is irrelevant. Further, your comments don't address the issue of the futility of negotiation.

[mattsmith48]

He would have no reason to believe them. The US backstabbed it's allies and partners on so many occassions, so I guess their diplomatic reputation is zero. The thing that can work is to have them stop making nukes and in return lift all sanctions. Disarmament is impossible, now you can only prevent the NK from having a sizeable nuclear arsenal.

NK wants deliverable nuclear weapons. The U.S. and other countries do not want them to have deliverable nuclear weapons. How would you see those negotiations working out?

Fiona2 great question. NK agrees to give up their nukes in exchange the US agrees to not invade or make any attempts at the live of the dictator. Both sides uses China to make sure both sides respect their part of the deal. They Guarantee the protection of NK in the event of US aggression and oversee the nuclear disarmament and along with people with the confidence of the US government make sure they don't rebuild their arsenal. This last part would probably look similar to the Iran deal.

[Stronk Serb]

Fiona2 great question. NK agrees to give up their nukes in exchange the US agrees to not invade or make any attempts at the live of the dictator. Both sides uses China to make sure both sides respect their part of the deal. They Guarantee the protection of NK in the event of US aggression and oversee the nuclear disarmament and along with people with the confidence of the US government make sure they don't rebuild their arsenal. This last part would probably look similar to the Iran deal.

North Korea will not believe them. Despite China protecting North Korea from a possible hostile takeover, their relations have gone cold. North Korea has zero or very little reasons to trust the intenrational community.