Open-mindedness or abuse?

[Aquamrine]

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[CuriousBoy15]

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[LITTLEANGEL19]

What is the abuse you are takling about.

[Aquamrine]

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[Aquamrine]

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[TessTheGreat]

I think a boy getting an erection is something he can control probably but I don't know about massaging. I wouldn't want a boy to see me naked but maybe it's normal in other countries. It just sounds as if they are different in that country and I don't think it sounds like abuse.

[Aquamrine]

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[TessTheGreat]

I don't know much about erections. Maybe they cannot control it when it's warm around in sauna.

I don't know anything about them but when my cousin got one after we went swimming he tried to hide it so I guess he was embarrassed by it lol

[Harrier]

@auqamrine are you from Germany too or where? When you were talking about sauna I thought maybe they were from Finland or Norway or somewhere where sauna is VERY popular. But I bet it's somewhat popular in many European countries.

Anyway it definitely doesn't sound like abuse that you described. You didn't mention anybody was forced to do anything they didn't want to do. I bet this stuff happens a ton in Europe. I have done naked sauna with my dad (used towells tho). I have hot tubbed naked with my brother and sisters. My sisters have seen me hard. Only weird thing is your cousin giving his sister a massage naked while he had a boner. But that could just mean that they are comfortable with nudity and know that erections can happen almost anytime for almost any reason. Boys typically try to hide erections for two reasons: in US (and most places where modesty is the norm) it's embarrassing to have boners. Also whether you're modest or not it's usually considered polite to hide boners (but among family, politeness may not be important). In other words getting hard in shorts at the pool may make you hide your boner. But getting hard naked you can't really hide it lol. All you can do is cover with towell or excuse yourself.

Finally it's not impolite to turn down a massage. That's always your right.

You never mentioned how you felt? Did you like the naked sauna or hate it or somewhere in between?

[Aquamrine]

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[Hermes]

Attitudes to nudity do vary a lot. They vary from one country to another with the Scandinavians being known to be especially open about nudity. I also remember going to Holland on a holiday and some girls and women were topless on the beach. It wasn't a nude beach, it is just that they don't see being topless as a big deal there while here in the UK you would never see that.

It is also something that varies from one family to another. A friend of mine thinks nothing of using the bathroom to pee while his sister is in there showering or vice versa. Other friends wouldn't want to be seen by their sister even undressed down to their underwear.

So there isn't really any right or wrong about nudity it is just a case of what you are comfortable with.

Where it becomes abuse is when someone touches someone else in a sexual way without consent, or when an adult touches a child in a sexual way because children are considered too young to consent, particularly as they may feel coerced. Massage doesn't have to be sexual, though obviously it can be, so it depends on the massage.

[SeansLittleBro]

Attitudes to nudity do vary a lot. They vary from one country to another with the Scandinavians being known to be especially open about nudity. I also remember going to Holland on a holiday and some girls and women were topless on the beach. It wasn't a nude beach, it is just that they don't see being topless as a big deal there while here in the UK you would never see that.

It is also something that varies from one family to another. A friend of mine thinks nothing of using the bathroom to pee while his sister is in there showering or vice versa. Other friends wouldn't want to be seen by their sister even undressed down to their underwear.

So there isn't really any right or wrong about nudity it is just a case of what you are comfortable with.

Where it becomes abuse is when someone touches someone else in a sexual way without consent, or when an adult touches a child in a sexual way because children are considered too young to consent, particularly as they may feel coerced. Massage doesn't have to be sexual, though obviously it can be, so it depends on the massage.

Well said Hermes....nudity is nothing to be ashamed of and in different cultures or even in different families in the same culture it is perfectly acceptable...My brothers and I are always naked together in our area of the house and it just seems natural for us..Abuse as Hermes said abuse is something that isn't consensual or between an adult/child ... as far as as s 14 year old boy having an erection in a warm sauna with other people there that too is not uncommon...even if it were all boys there it probably can happen just do to the fact that they were naked and in the sauna......I love massages and my brothers and I do massage each other...yes naked...but it is nothing sexual...just very relaxing....

[Aquamrine]

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[EvaNL]

As long as nobody gets forced to do something, I wouldn't call it abuse.
If you don't feel comfortable with what they seem to regularly do, then you can simply say No. That's totally fine.
Everyone feels differently about things, and nobody should be forced to do anything they don't want to do.

[jamie_n5]

I think that it's just a natural normal thing for the family to do. They were brought up that way just as a family who are nudists it's perfectly normal for them to be naked around each other and they don't think anything about it. They aren't modest or ashamed of their bodies and it's just a normal part of their lives. There is no way this is abuse and I suppose you could say that they are open minded about their lifestyle.

[toby69]

I see no abuse here. The people in the sauna were simply following the family's routine. No one got out of line. If a parent took his/her daughters to a nude beach where some young boys get boners, that is not abuse. Perhaps it is if daughters get very upset.

[Chetz]

So you guys think it's just ok when a boy has erection in front of a girl. But I think there is something sexual about this.

That 16 yo girl said that once she was massaging her brother while he was lying facedown; and after he stood up she found white stuff on a bench. It was sperm, evidentially. He had ejaculation. Is it OK?

Did the girl forced him to ejaculate?

[Harrier]

Like everyone said, definitely not abuse since nobody forced anybody to do anything. Everything sounds pretty typical for an open minded European family. I would be up for all of it. Imo the massage was too much but just imo. But still not wrong. Its just that I personally get hard when ANYBODY gives me a massage. Gf has, both sisters, 2 female professionals at my gym, even my dad im afraid to say. It's not necessarily sexual. But if you massage my upper legs im gonna get hard. Especislly if you touch my junk on accident massaging my legs. And the white stuff was probably pre cum and probably a bit of real cum. If you massage a boy who is hard long enough, eventually he will cum.

[ImJulia]

i guess as long as there is not sexual contact it is ok.

[NewLeafsFan]

I don't see how this is abuse.

I think that you are concerned about the boy massaging his sister while he was erect. At his age, erections happen often and randomly. It was probably not because of some type of incestual attraction. And obviously the girl wasn't bothered by it.

And you were not obligated to accept his massage. Since it clearly bothered you I don't think that you should sauna with them again. At least not until you have become more open minded or the boy becomes a bit more mature and in control of his erections.

[Aquamrine]

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[Aquamrine]

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[Chetz]

Clearly there is no abuse. Nobody forced anyone to do anything.

[Vic_Fire]

I don't think it's abuse but sounds strange. I think you should refuse from sauna next time if you feel that something inapropriate for your senses happens there

[zzzzzzzzzz]

I have spent two weeks at my relatives' home. They live in different country than me. There lives my two second cousins: girl (11 yo) and boy (14 yo).
They have sauna in their house. I had never had sauna before this visit. In this family children have sauna without parents (sometimes with them). So I went to sauna with my cousins. As it was something new to me (I had never had sauna before) I asked cousins' mom to give me long and wide towel to wrap myself. She said that it's not good (healthy) to be wrapped in sauna. I asked her if it was hot in sauna. She said: No, just warm, we make "children temperature" for "children sauna".
Well, my cousins were naked in sauna. I didn't know what I should do. I didn't want to be impolite... So I didn't use towel and was naked. But that's not all. I think the boy had erection. We had sauna nearly every day. And often he got erection. And after sauna he massaged his sister with lotion. And during two sauna-session we were joined by 16 yo girl and 12 yo boy (relatives of family that I visited), and nothing changed. Everyone is naked. The boy had erection for (at least) 5-7 minutes. And massages after sauna. 16 yo girl asked me if I want to get massage from the boy. I said: No. Maybe it was impolite. Maybe I was supposed to get massage as part of sauna?
And their parents allow them to do all this. Is this open-mindedness or abuse on their part?
What do you think of this all?
It seems very normal for them. It doesn't mean it has to be normal for you. If you want to cover up or not have a massage that is your choice. You don't even have to go in.
Ps our erections are hard to control!

[pjones]

It sounds like the group enjoys being nude together and playing around without actually having sex. I don't think it's abuse unless one has been forced and based on what you've told us it didn't happen.

And zzzzzzzzzz is absolutely correct, boys that age have little control over their erections

[Aquamrine]

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[Chetz]

The boy ejaculated once. It's like sex.

As long as no one was forced to do anything there is no abuse.

[Aquamrine]

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[Chetz]

All right. But is it normal to play like that? Would you agree to take part in such activity?

I think in some places it is normal.
I would be hesitant to take part (you can always say no without being impolite) in such activity.

[zzzzzzzzzz]

All right. But is it normal to play like that? Would you agree to take part in such activity?

I might. But others wouldn't. If U are not keen, politely decline.

[Vic_Fire]

All right. But is it normal to play like that? Would you agree to take part in such activity?

i wouldn't. it's may be ok with gf but not with several kids in my opinion.

[OldNewGuy]

I dont get how this is abuse.

[Animal3393]

Not sure I’d call it abuse per-se but if you feel uncomfortable with it that should be enough reason not to do it. If they then made/forced you to join in. That would be abuse. Not sure if I’d join in myself, I guess it would most likely depend on my mood at the time.

[ShineintheDark]

I mean, other than the boners and all (which are natural and I very doubt intentional) there's nothing overtly sexual about anything beyond what YOU perceive it as. The kids aren't experimenting and neither are the parents pushing them to, they're just relaxing naked together which is fine and perfectly acceptable in many countries.

[Harrier]

All right. But is it normal to play like that? Would you agree to take part in such activity?

Normal is all relative to how and where you grew up. I would sauna naked with siblings and friends, and I likely would with some or all of my cousins. I would feel somewhat awkward getting a naked massage from a sister to the point that I jizzed. But that's just me. Doesn't mean it's abuse.

[Falcons_11]

Not really knowing the customs and laws of the country I would say that being nude in a sauna with both sexes your age isn't abuse. If you were forced or coerced in the sauna, then that would be abuse. If you were uncomfortable being nude in the sauna with the others, why couldn't you tell them you don't want to be in the sauna with naked people? If they are your relatives they shouldn't be offended and respect your wishes.

[YoungHypebeast]

For some reason I can't read the title