Cultural Appropiation

[PlasmaHam]

It's that time of year again. The air is getting nippy, leaves are changing, children are preparing to feast on candy, and SJWs are ranting about cultural appropriation. It's the most triggering time of the year.

Anyways, I came upon this article (http://www.cosmopolitan.com/lifestyle/a13069023/moana-halloween-costume-racist/?src=socialflowTW) published recently from Cosmopolitan(A great source of moral guidance btw :P). Talking about how it is somehow racist for a white kid to dress up as a fictional Polynesian character from a Disney movie, and instead they need to have self-shame over their white-privilege, or something like that. It's typical SJW stuff basically.

For me, cultural appropriation is a non-issue. Humans for millennia have been "appropriating" from other cultures. We take things we like from other cultures, and apply them to our own. That advances human progress, and has helped create better relations between cultures. Ironically, appropriation of cultures creates a culture of Diversity, which is the secondary god in the SJW pantheon after Tolerance. So in my opinion, cultural appropriation is fine as long as you aren't exploiting it to clearly mock other cultures, which 99.99% of the time is not the case.

[Living For Love]

Cultural appropriation exists and is a consequence of multiculturalism and globalisation. I understand how people can feel that their cultural identity is being threatened or mocked at when other people who don't share their ethnic background use their objects or symbols in a Halloween costume context, but at the same time, I can also feel that instead of mocking, people might be using that appropriation to celebrate another culture, not to make fun of it. It's all very relative and subjective. I'm not sure if there is any law in any country in the world that allows a certain ethnic group to register a symbol, for instance, as "theirs only" and thus legally refusing other people the possibility of using it, but it would be interesting if it ever happened.

[Sailor Mars]

Isn’t cultural appropriation when you dress up or something as someone else’s culture and act like you know it n stuff? Cuz at that point it’s like... stereotypical and offensive...

Like if someone dresses up in stereotypical Native American garb and went to a drum circle, without knowing anything about their history or actual culture, that’s cultural appropriation right? Or am I getting this wrong?...

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being interested into other cultures. But if you want to learn about them, you should go there or find someone of that culture and learn honestly, not lie and be offensive about it.

[Living For Love]

Isn’t cultural appropriation when you dress up or something as someone else’s culture and act like you know it n stuff? Cuz at that point it’s like... stereotypical and offensive...

Like if someone dresses up in stereotypical Native American garb and went to a drum circle, without knowing anything about their history or actual culture, that’s cultural appropriation right? Or am I getting this wrong?...
It's cultural appropriation, definitely. The issue here is why do people think I have the intention of offending Native Americans if I dress up as one in Halloween (even if I know everything about their culture)?

[Sailor Mars]

It's cultural appropriation, definitely. The issue here is why do people think I have the intention of offending Native Americans if I dress up as one in Halloween (even if I know everything about their culture)?

I think it’s cuz you’re not of Native American descent that someone would see it as mocking. Same thing w other cultures. If someone wanted to dress up as a French person and threw on a striped shirt and a beret, then it seems like you’re mocking because of the stereotype you’re dressing up as

[mattsmith48]

Its Halloween, dressing as something you're not is the whole point of the thing, being against that would be like celebrating Valentines day, but being against demonstrating love. As long you are not caricaturing like the example Mars gave with the French, who gives a shit.

[Stronk Serb]

Isn’t cultural appropriation when you dress up or something as someone else’s culture and act like you know it n stuff? Cuz at that point it’s like... stereotypical and offensive...

Like if someone dresses up in stereotypical Native American garb and went to a drum circle, without knowing anything about their history or actual culture, that’s cultural appropriation right? Or am I getting this wrong?...

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being interested into other cultures. But if you want to learn about them, you should go there or find someone of that culture and learn honestly, not lie and be offensive about it.

I call it being a dick, but if a person does that, he will get called out by the community he asserted he knew things about. Now for Halloween, let the kids play cowboys and Indians in their little costumes. Those are kids, let them have fun.

I think it’s cuz you’re not of Native American descent that someone would see it as mocking. Same thing w other cultures. If someone wanted to dress up as a French person and threw on a striped shirt and a beret, then it seems like you’re mocking because of the stereotype you’re dressing up as

Don't forget the frogs, snails and a baguette! :D
In all seriousness, stereotypes are hilarious. I think it's okay to apply them in a humorous sense, but not in an offensive setting.

[Sailor Mars]

I call it being a dick, but if a person does that, he will get called out by the community he asserted he knew things about. Now for Halloween, let the kids play cowboys and Indians in their little costumes. Those are kids, let them have fun.



Don't forget the frogs, snails and a baguette! :D
In all seriousness, stereotypes are hilarious. I think it's okay to apply them in a humorous sense, but not in an offensive setting.

Yeah for kids, who cares? They're kids ykno? but if ppl are being offensive or ignorant then its different :P

[Lost in the Echo]

Some people will always find something to be offended about just to bitch. I say fuck it and fuck ‘em. Just ignore their dumb asses.

[Dalcourt]

In all seriousness, stereotypes are hilarious. I think it's okay to apply them in a humorous sense, but not in an offensive setting.

Sure but where is the line between humorous and offensive? When does someone from another culture feel mocked?

I would not know if I am not part of that said culture.

So sure it's kids, it wasn't meant like that and all...and yeah it's all fun and games as long people don't mock you and your culture.

It's a tricky subject.

I always find those kind of newspaper articles difficult, anyway. As the first post in its mocking tone shows it just contributeso to people not taking cultural issues seriously.

I don't think e.g. Polynesian people need an article like that, where white people tell them when they have to be offended. And it is just predestined to provoke inappropriate reactions...We had a similar article in a local newspaper and the comments on it quickly escalated to being offensive and racist.

Therefore I always feel these "well-meaning" articles do way more harm than good.

[Stronk Serb]

Yeah for kids, who cares? They're kids ykno? but if ppl are being offensive or ignorant then its different :P

Yeah but institutionally we should not do anything. Call it offensive and their moves dickis, if they start going into racism, call them out on that. In handling this, we should argument our reaction, not go "UGH WHITE CIS MALE RACIST CHRISTIAN BIGOT KKK CROSS BURNING NAZI!" like the lefties have a tendency to do.

Sure but where is the line between humorous and offensive? When does someone from another culture feel mocked?

I would not know if I am not part of that said culture.

So sure it's kids, it wasn't meant like that and all...and yeah it's all fun and games as long people don't mock you and your culture.

It's a tricky subject.

I always find those kind of newspaper articles difficult, anyway. As the first post in its mocking tone shows it just contributeso to people not taking cultural issues seriously.

I don't think e.g. Polynesian people need an article like that, where white people tell them when they have to be offended. And it is just predestined to provoke inappropriate reactions...We had a similar article in a local newspaper and the comments on it quickly escalated to being offensive and racist.

Therefore I always feel these "well-meaning" articles do way more harm than good.

Well, about those newspaper articles, I just ignore what they say. I would not let me judge myself over some arbitrary news editor's standards. I will judge myself based on the reactions of the people around me.

[ShineintheDark]

Whilst I do feel it's getting a little extreme these days, people have to understand that it IS a thing and respect the boundaries of it. For example, using the Moana example of the article, I don't feel dressing as Moana is really that offensive as, even though she's a different race to most of the kids who wanna dress as her, she isn't that sacred or special that dressing as her is offensive. However, the character of Maui in that film wears tattoos that have deep significance and meaning to the Maori and wider Polynesian culture and therefore I respect their right for Polynesians to ask people not to wear it. This goes for other examples too, like Native American headdresses or Indian Bindis. If something has a particular value or deep meaning to a culture, I'd really steer away from it.
Another major example that I know to be quite controversial is the new trend of having Indian gods on T shirts. Yeah, they're really cool and can back up this whole new-age yoga culture but these figures have deep religious meaning to Hindus and so that's why they get so offended over it.

[CosmicNoodle]

If you're worried about cultural appropriation you don't have anything to be worried about. It's a non-issue that people who like to be offended go on about, trying to segregate cultures just because traditionally specific traits or traditions where exclusive to one is backwards and nonsensical.

[Living For Love]

Sure but where is the line between humorous and offensive? When does someone from another culture feel mocked?
Your questions are pertinent but they cannot be answered due to the fact that this whole issue is highly subjective. For example, this (https://www.buzzfeed.com/tanyachen/multi-layered-backlashes?utm_term=.hrD6ew2OR#.bw09vP8GJ) case. And since you are a black male, may I ask you how you feel about that particular example? Do you agree that a white person painting their face black is appropriating black people's genetic culture and is thus considered racist? Or do you think comparing black people to a black creature is more racist?

Whilst I do feel it's getting a little extreme these days, people have to understand that it IS a thing and respect the boundaries of it. For example, using the Moana example of the article, I don't feel dressing as Moana is really that offensive as, even though she's a different race to most of the kids who wanna dress as her, she isn't that sacred or special that dressing as her is offensive. However, the character of Maui in that film wears tattoos that have deep significance and meaning to the Maori and wider Polynesian culture and therefore I respect their right for Polynesians to ask people not to wear it. This goes for other examples too, like Native American headdresses or Indian Bindis. If something has a particular value or deep meaning to a culture, I'd really steer away from it.
Another major example that I know to be quite controversial is the new trend of having Indian gods on T shirts. Yeah, they're really cool and can back up this whole new-age yoga culture but these figures have deep religious meaning to Hindus and so that's why they get so offended over it.
I agree that Moana herself is only a cartoon and not part of Polynesian culture (if anything, we should be blaming Disney for appropriating a Polynesian character). As far as Indian gods are concerned, what about non-Indian people converting themselves to Hinduism? Religion is related to culture but might not be intrinsically associated with one.

[Dalcourt]

You questions are pertinent but they cannot be answered due to the fact that this whole issue is highly subjective. For example, this (https://www.buzzfeed.com/tanyachen/multi-layered-backlashes?utm_term=.hrD6ew2OR#.bw09vP8GJ) case. And since you are a black male, may I ask you how you feel about that particular example? Do you agree that a white person painting their face black is appropriating black people's genetic culture and is thus considered racist? Or do you think comparing black people to a black creature is more racist?


I have seen this on Twitter and honestly didn't think of it as racist but rather weird.
I discussed it with colored friends and none of us would have considered this as the woman trying to look like a black person. So when white people think it's racist to dress up as a demon? since demons look like black people? I honestly don't know what to think about.

I mean there might be cases where people paint their face to make fun of people of color but I don't see it here. There are cases where whites associate black people with other black creatures or with apes like in some rather infamous memes you could easily google and it is highly offensive.

But in this case that whole thing is just overreaction of some ( white?) people.
There might be a couple of things white people do I find racist but this is just a laughing matter for me.

However, it could be completely different if you ask another colored person, though, since as you said yourself this whole matter is just subjective.


Hope this makes any sense...it's a rather complicated matter to explain but I don't wanna bore people with mile long posts.

[ShineintheDark]

I agree that Moana herself is only a cartoon and not part of Polynesian culture (if anything, we should be blaming Disney for appropriating a Polynesian character). As far as Indian gods are concerned, what about non-Indian people converting themselves to Hinduism? Religion is related to culture but might not be intrinsically associated with one.

I think I didn;t make it clear enough in my answer. I didn't mean to make people think that I disagree with wearing religious symbols since of course everyone has the right to convert and show pride in any faith they please. I just mean to discourage wearing symbols that demean or lower the significance of the symbol, with the example of wearing a T shirt of a Hindu god 'because it looks cool.'

[Uniquemind]

Cultural appropriation exists and is a consequence of multiculturalism and globalisation. I understand how people can feel that their cultural identity is being threatened or mocked at when other people who don't share their ethnic background use their objects or symbols in a Halloween costume context, but at the same time, I can also feel that instead of mocking, people might be using that appropriation to celebrate another culture, not to make fun of it. It's all very relative and subjective. I'm not sure if there is any law in any country in the world that allows a certain ethnic group to register a symbol, for instance, as "theirs only" and thus legally refusing other people the possibility of using it, but it would be interesting if it ever happened.

Isn’t cultural appropriation when you dress up or something as someone else’s culture and act like you know it n stuff? Cuz at that point it’s like... stereotypical and offensive...

Like if someone dresses up in stereotypical Native American garb and went to a drum circle, without knowing anything about their history or actual culture, that’s cultural appropriation right? Or am I getting this wrong?...

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being interested into other cultures. But if you want to learn about them, you should go there or find someone of that culture and learn honestly, not lie and be offensive about it.


I think it comes down to a sense of possession as a consequence of associating one's self-identity (and therefore self-respect) with symbols and concepts of culture. You don't want to see others blur the deeper meaning behind those traditions and symbols.

But the flaw is threefold:

1. People adopt concepts and symbols as a fun trendy pleasurable thing to do, I think people are naturally lazy and don't educate themselves on deeper meanings and are more likely to offend because of a lack of knowledge or willingness to obtain new POV's. When confronted by those offended they are like "why are you stopping my fun, I mean no harm, go away?".



2. People are becoming less visually linear to their culture...at first glance someone may look white, but upon getting to know them they are half-Asian, or they grew up in a household that emphasized a different cultural value, than what an observer would stereotypically categorize his or her culture as.


3. We're too sensitive, I think the last 3 generations (those age 10-30) have been told by all the school assemblies "see something, say something" and we've generalized that to mean to get into everybody's business and correct every "wrong" lest you be an evil "enabler".

I think the concept of being active is good, but needs to be balanced by the concept of "picking your battles", and measuring which issues should take priority as to something that should be in your interest to get involved with, and what is something that doesn't affect you and isn't your business enough to warrant involvement. (By involvement I also mean to get personally upset by).

[Flapjack]

I think it's a good thing to embarrass other cultures! I don't want to be locked to just eating and dressing in traditional English ways! Our culture is already based heavily on other cultures and besides you often get people from lets say Japan saying they are fine with westerners dressing up in their traditional clothes and others that say they're offended.

From what I have experienced the offended camp is often a lot smaller and comprised mostly of westerners being offended for other cultures.

I think intent matters a lot, if you just like the food or the clothes then you do you boo but if you're trying to offend people then obviously that is a dick move.