If you support it, great, if not, hate?

[Lovelife090994]

Hi. I am sure many of us have seen many situations of "you are with me or against me." But, I am also sure that most of you readers know that a person can be neutral to a subject, or disagree with it without being against it or the person, or support the subject in more than one way, right? One subject where the with me or against clause always seems to come into play is gay marriage. While many who are against it tend to be the vocal radical crowd, what about those who are neutral or disagree with it without hatred?
This may be why so many are neutral on the subject or simply stay quiet to avoid having their head bitten off.

One thing I have noticed with many of the LGBT and I am sure many of the LGBT are confused by this also is how so many of the LGBT have that with me or against me mentality which can push people away. The LGBT for the most part is about tolerance, but why the overall intolerance to all who disagree with gay marriage when by statistically speaking very few who are in gay relationships like with straight relationships ever marry? What I am getting at is a "why" thing. Why is literally everyone who stands opposed to gay marriage and the like instantly labled a homophobe or bigot when the words have a meaning that can tied to either fear or inadequacy to society?

I get that many in the gay community face problems, but don't we all. Many say don't be mean to those who like something different than you or don't have a problem with those who disagree since not everyone will agree with you. Another group often pushed into the boxes of homophobe and bigot even when many of them are not like that are Christians in general. Many Christians like any other people live their day to day life not trying to bother anyone. But when a person who is Christian says they disagree with gay marriage but they do not hate the person, why do people go death at the not hating part and then label all who are Christian with those who disgreed as homophobic bigots? That doesn't seem very tolerant now does it? I understand that many more "Western" beliefs are very anti-homosexuality and to a degree people think it as an excuse to be anti-homosexual, but in truth people who disagree with homosexuality are also against any harm to others for sexuality, religion, et cetera.

Will it stop? Probably not. Will the unintended labels stop? Not for a while. Will groups like Christians stop being called homophobic? Probably not for a long time if ever. To me there are just too many double standards. And to deviate a moment. When ever something in popular culture has a Muslim symbol and seen as offensive it is removed usually, but if it is anti-Christian, anti-Buddhist, anti-Judaism, anti-Druidry, literally anti-religion excluding anti-Muslim it is never an outcry that is heard nor is the offensive symbol removed? Maybe this goes to other issues instead of with me or against me but I feel it is still an issue no less. I guess we'll never live in a world where people could care less who you pray to and who you sleep with. Now in some you can relate this other cases wher people disagree only in different ways. Someone who is racist disagrees with racial differences along with hating them so that it is not a question of disagreement but of hate. A vegan disagrees for themselves and at times others that meat and animal products are not to be eaten but they do not hate those who disagree? How come when someone disagrees with homosexuality, all of a sudden all of those people regardless of reason are called hateful even if they stated who they hate no one who they disagree with?

[abc983055235235231a]

None of your yes answers are really right
"Yes, whenever you disagree with an idea you hate the people.
Yes, because gay marriage and homosexuality are only disagreed by haters.
Yes, all who disagree may be homophobic and religious."

How about: "Yes because hating *this specific idea* makes you hateful".

[Lovelife090994]

None of your yes answers are really right
"Yes, whenever you disagree with an idea you hate the people.
Yes, because gay marriage and homosexuality are only disagreed by haters.
Yes, all who disagree may be homophobic and religious."

How about: "Yes because hating *this specific idea* makes you hateful".

Not necessarily. This is what I was talking about. Disagreeing is not the same as hating.

[abc983055235235231a]

Not necessarily. This is what I was talking about. Disagreeing is not the same as hating.

Obviously disagreeing *in general* is not the same thing as hating. My favourite colour might be green, while yours might be blue, and this disagreement doesn't mean that I harbour any hatred for you.
The specific case of homosexuality, however, is unlike the case of favourite colours. To disagree with homosexuality is to fundamentally disagree with a person's very existence, and that by definition constitutes hate.

[Lovelife090994]

Obviously disagreeing *in general* is not the same thing as hating. My favourite colour might be green, while yours might be blue, and this disagreement doesn't mean that I harbour any hatred for you.
The specific case of homosexuality, however, is unlike the case of favourite colours. To disagree with homosexuality is to fundamentally disagree with a person's very existence, and that by definition constitutes hate.

Now that is where this was stretched. A homosexual male or female is more than their sexuality. They very well do not feel attraction in a heterosexual way and do not hate the people who do feel it. By disagreeing with homosexuality you disagree with that sexuality, not the fact the person exists. Disagreeing with someone's existence is a whole nother story in most cases. To me one can disagree without hating the person.

[abc983055235235231a]

Now that is where this was stretched. A homosexual male or female is more than their sexuality. They very well do not feel attraction in a heterosexual way and do not hate the people who do feel it. By disagreeing with homosexuality you disagree with that sexuality, not the fact the person exists. Disagreeing with someone's existence is a whole nother story in most cases. To me one can disagree without hating the person.

First, let's note that homosexuals don't "disagree" with heterosexuality. My being Canadian and your being American doesn't mean that I disagree with your nationality. I simply do not share that nationality. So of course homosexuals don't hate heterosexuals. Homosexuality isn't a disagreement with heterosexuality.

All people are more than individual characteristics that describe them. But that doesn't mean that those characteristics are irrelevant. Imagine if I were to go up to a black person and say "I disagree with your blackness". That sort of disagreement is the exact same thing as hate.
This is different from saying "I disagree with your taste of music" or "I disagree with the way you wear your hair" because those things are traits affixed onto us. Sexuality, however, is something that is an implicit part of a person. To disagree with something as fundamental as that *is* to hate people who have that characteristic. To say "I can disagree with it without hating it" is just a bad semantic argument. It is the act of disagreeing that is hateful. The hate isn't some sort of external thing.

[Lovelife090994]

First, let's note that homosexuals don't "disagree" with heterosexuality. My being Canadian and your being American doesn't mean that I disagree with your nationality. I simply do not share that nationality. So of course homosexuals don't hate heterosexuals. Homosexuality isn't a disagreement with heterosexuality.

All people are more than individual characteristics that describe them. But that doesn't mean that those characteristics are irrelevant. Imagine if I were to go up to a black person and say "I disagree with your blackness". That sort of disagreement is the exact same thing as hate.
This is different from saying "I disagree with your taste of music" or "I disagree with the way you wear your hair" because those things are traits affixed onto us. Sexuality, however, is something that is an implicit part of a person. To disagree with something as fundamental as that *is* to hate people who have that characteristic. To say "I can disagree with it without hating it" is just a bad semantic argument. It is the act of disagreeing that is hateful. The hate isn't some sort of external thing.

Wait, a minute. I addressed the difference to this with racism and I never said homosexuals disagree with heterosexuals. I said that a homosexual will not feel the same attraction as a heterosexual. You can disagree with homosexuality without hating the people.

[abc983055235235231a]

Wait, a minute. I addressed the difference to this with racism and I never said homosexuals disagree with heterosexuals. I said that a homosexual will not feel the same attraction as a heterosexual. You can disagree with homosexuality without hating the people.

No you didn't "address the difference"; you just stated that there was a difference. Unfortunately, saying that there is a difference doesn't mean that there is a difference. As I said in my last reply, both have to do with disagreeing with a fundamental aspect of a person's character. To do that is to be hateful.

[Lovelife090994]

No you didn't "address the difference"; you just stated that there was a difference. Unfortunately, saying that there is a difference doesn't mean that there is a difference. As I said in my last reply, both have to do with disagreeing with a fundamental aspect of a person's character. To do that is to be hateful.

A person's character is not just who they are attracted to. I can disagree with homosexuality and never wish the homosexual to not be born. Hatred is when you flat have a problem with a person across all subjects. Hate is hate. Disagreement is disagreement.

[Croconaw]

I think they're hateful. The don't agree with it, and they use that as an excuse to bash it.

[abc983055235235231a]

A person's character is not just who they are attracted to. I can disagree with homosexuality and never wish the homosexual to not be born. Hatred is when you flat have a problem with a person across all subjects. Hate is hate. Disagreement is disagreement.

I can disagree with black people and never wish the black person to not be born.

That statement is just as true as what you said. To disagree with someone's existence isn't to wish that they were never born. It is simply to disagree with their existence.

[StoppingTime]

A person's character is not just who they are attracted to. I can disagree with homosexuality and never wish the homosexual to not be born. Hatred is when you flat have a problem with a person across all subjects. Hate is hate. Disagreement is disagreement.

If anything, what you're suggesting is at least prejudice. It's prejudice because you're judging and making decisions for/in regards to someone because of their genetic makeup, which, of course, isn't changeable.

That's like saying, "Oh, well while I don't hate X race, I certainly don't think they should be able to do XYZ actions."

[Lovelife090994]

If anything, what you're suggesting is at least prejudice. It's prejudice because you're judging and making decisions for/in regards to someone because of their genetic makeup, which, of course, isn't changeable.

That's like saying, "Oh, well while I don't hate X race, I certainly don't think they should be able to do XYZ actions."

Every person on Earth does not have to agree with homosexuality. I never said any prejudice words. I love all people granted they treat me with respect.

[StoppingTime]

Every person on Earth does not have to agree with homosexuality. I never said any prejudice words. I love all people granted they treat me with respect.

Well of course not...but then you'd be disagreeing with a biological fact. I guess not everyone believes in evolution or the cell theory either...but that certainly doesn't make them right.

[Lovelife090994]

Well of course not...but then you'd be disagreeing with a biological fact. I guess not everyone believes in evolution or the cell theory either...but that certainly doesn't make them right.

A personal opinion should not make a person automatically wrong either. No one wants to be ridiculed for having a different opinion. My cousin does not agree with homosexuality yet is a nice person who is a friend to anyone regardless.

[abc983055235235231a]

A personal opinion should not make a person automatically wrong either. No one wants to be ridiculed for having a different opinion. My cousin does not agree with homosexuality yet is a nice person who is a friend to anyone regardless.

"I have lots of black friends, therefore I'm not racist"

[Lovelife090994]

"I have lots of black friends, therefore I'm not racist"

The problem with bringing in race is that race is something we are all born as. There is no way to be a certain race, you just have it. Sexuality however is something not everyone has. Not everyone acts like they have this or that sexuality. Sexuality has behaviors, race doesn't. Race just says hints to your ethnicity and that gives hints to why you look like you do. Plus Blacks were onced treated lower than dogs, homosexuals have always been able to vote, own property, marry a person of the opposite sex, marry someone of another race (unless Black then it goes to how Blacks were not allowed to have interracial relationships.) There is a difference. Back then no one was out nor opressed unless you were a slave be it in American history or back with the Romans and Egyptians where regardless of color if you were a slave you are a slave. I can't recall of gay slaves. I also do not recall of where I said racism is right. Race and sexuality are both something we do not ask to have but do, sexuaity has behaviors, race doesn't.

[abc983055235235231a]

The problem with bringing in race is that race is something we are all born as. There is no way to be a certain race, you just have it. Sexuality however is something not everyone has. Not everyone acts like they have this or that sexuality. Sexuality has behaviors, race doesn't. Race just says hints to your ethnicity and that gives hints to why you look like you do. Plus Blacks were onced treated lower than dogs, homosexuals have always been able to vote, own property, marry a person of the opposite sex, marry someone of another race (unless Black then it goes to how Blacks were not allowed to have interracial relationships.) There is a difference. Back then no one was out nor opressed unless you were a slave be it in American history or back with the Romans and Egyptians where regardless of color if you were a slave you are a slave. I can't recall of gay slaves. I also do not recall of where I said racism is right. Race and sexuality are both something we do not ask to have but do, sexuaity has behaviors, race doesn't.

I'm pretty sure that everyone has a sexuality with the exception of asexuals, though we can really just consider asexuality to be a sexuality just like any other. I'm not really at all sure what you mean by "behaviours". Do you mean "having sex with people of a certain gender"? Or are you referring to stereotypical behaviour for gay people and stuff? Because I'm pretty sure that technically speaking no characteristic has "behaviours". Only people have "behaviours".

Regardless, no matter what you mean by "behaviours" it isn't something that applies to sexuality in a way that it doesn't apply to things like race. I'm not even going to address stereotypical behaviours, which you might be referring to, because those can be ignored simply for being stereotypical. If by "behaviours" you mean "having sex with certain people", well... you're wrong. You're wrong because people have a sexuality long before they are having sex. And even if a person never has sex in their life, that wouldn't mean that they don't have a sexuality.
What I am saying is even evident in your own words. "Not everyone acts like they have this or that sexuality". No, of course they don't *act* like it. It's something that they have *without having to act on it*. To that extent, it doesn't have "behaviours", whatever those are.

And even if sexuality did have "behaviours", so what? What difference would that make to the issue at hand? Religions probably have whatever it is that you mean by "behaviours". And not all people have a religion. Yet still, there is such a thing as religious hatred. The difference between things like religion and things like sexuality is that things like sexuality are an implicit part of a person, whereas religion is something external to the person. You aren't born with a religion, but you are born with a race and a sexuality (etc).

....there's a lot more to racism/homophobia/sexism/anything of this sort than slavery.... I don't have to condone enslavement of a certain race in order to be a racist. I don't have to suggest that we enslave women in order to be sexist. As I have said in probably every single one of my replies, simply disagreeing with homosexuality is in itself hatred. It doesn't matter if you go out and beat up gay people on the street. You don't have to shun all gay people you encounter. Those things aren't required for hate. The very fact that you disagree with homosexuality *IS* hate.

[CassnovA]

they are not all hateful. there are some situations in life where you just dont agree.

[Lovelife090994]

I'm pretty sure that everyone has a sexuality with the exception of asexuals, though we can really just consider asexuality to be a sexuality just like any other. I'm not really at all sure what you mean by "behaviours". Do you mean "having sex with people of a certain gender"? Or are you referring to stereotypical behaviour for gay people and stuff? Because I'm pretty sure that technically speaking no characteristic has "behaviours". Only people have "behaviours".

Regardless, no matter what you mean by "behaviours" it isn't something that applies to sexuality in a way that it doesn't apply to things like race. I'm not even going to address stereotypical behaviours, which you might be referring to, because those can be ignored simply for being stereotypical. If by "behaviours" you mean "having sex with certain people", well... you're wrong. You're wrong because people have a sexuality long before they are having sex. And even if a person never has sex in their life, that wouldn't mean that they don't have a sexuality.
What I am saying is even evident in your own words. "Not everyone acts like they have this or that sexuality". No, of course they don't *act* like it. It's something that they have *without having to act on it*. To that extent, it doesn't have "behaviours", whatever those are.

And even if sexuality did have "behaviours", so what? What difference would that make to the issue at hand? Religions probably have whatever it is that you mean by "behaviours". And not all people have a religion. Yet still, there is such a thing as religious hatred. The difference between things like religion and things like sexuality is that things like sexuality are an implicit part of a person, whereas religion is something external to the person. You aren't born with a religion, but you are born with a race and a sexuality (etc).

....there's a lot more to racism/homophobia/sexism/anything of this sort than slavery.... I don't have to condone enslavement of a certain race in order to be a racist. I don't have to suggest that we enslave women in order to be sexist. As I have said in probably every single one of my replies, simply disagreeing with homosexuality is in itself hatred. It doesn't matter if you go out and beat up gay people on the street. You don't have to shun all gay people you encounter. Those things aren't required for hate. The very fact that you disagree with homosexuality *IS* hate.

Those last lines sound hateful. Not everyone who disagrees with homosexuality are hateful nor do they all show hate because of it. Disagreeing with homosexuality is not hate. Religion is something you can choose to have but once you do it becomes deep in you. Your beliefs are not something someone can rip from you or fundamentally change when you stand by them. True, not everyone has a religion, true some people really hate religion and those involved, true not all racists condone slavery, but that doesn't mean that the hate factor is or isn't involved in these scenarios. You seem to think that just by disagreeing with homosexuality or not understanding it means the person is hateful to all homosexuals. That is not always the case. A person can literally hate my sexuality and never hate me. Why? Because my sexuality is a small bit to who and what I am. We all have personality, traits, likes, dislikes, beliefs, sexual preferences, lack of some sexual preferences, talents, so much more than our sexuality as a whole.

[Miserabilia]

A person's character is not just who they are attracted to. I can disagree with homosexuality and never wish the homosexual to not be born. Hatred is when you flat have a problem with a person across all subjects. Hate is hate. Disagreement is disagreement.

A diagreement is when you think someone's opinion is wrong, and since homosexuality is not an opinion, what does that make you?
I'm not saying you are in hatred, just that a dissagreement is a whole different thing.
You can't "disagree" with someone's sking colour or hair colour or eye colour or the pitch of someone's voice or the shape of their face or the length or their limbs, etc.

Hi. I am sure many of us have seen many situations of "you are with me or against me." But, I am also sure that most of you readers know that a person can be neutral to a subject, or disagree with it without being against it or the person, or support the subject in more than one way, right? One subject where the with me or against clause always seems to come into play is gay marriage. While many who are against it tend to be the vocal radical crowd, what about those who are neutral or disagree with it without hatred?
This may be why so many are neutral on the subject or simply stay quiet to avoid having their head bitten off.

One thing I have noticed with many of the LGBT and I am sure many of the LGBT are confused by this also is how so many of the LGBT have that with me or against me mentality which can push people away. The LGBT for the most part is about tolerance, but why the overall intolerance to all who disagree with gay marriage when by statistically speaking very few who are in gay relationships like with straight relationships ever marry? What I am getting at is a "why" thing. Why is literally everyone who stands opposed to gay marriage and the like instantly labled a homophobe or bigot when the words have a meaning that can tied to either fear or inadequacy to society?

I get that many in the gay community face problems, but don't we all. Many say don't be mean to those who like something different than you or don't have a problem with those who disagree since not everyone will agree with you. Another group often pushed into the boxes of homophobe and bigot even when many of them are not like that are Christians in general. Many Christians like any other people live their day to day life not trying to bother anyone. But when a person who is Christian says they disagree with gay marriage but they do not hate the person, why do people go death at the not hating part and then label all who are Christian with those who disgreed as homophobic bigots? That doesn't seem very tolerant now does it? I understand that many more "Western" beliefs are very anti-homosexuality and to a degree people think it as an excuse to be anti-homosexual, but in truth people who disagree with homosexuality are also against any harm to others for sexuality, religion, et cetera.

Will it stop? Probably not. Will the unintended labels stop? Not for a while. Will groups like Christians stop being called homophobic? Probably not for a long time if ever. To me there are just too many double standards. And to deviate a moment. When ever something in popular culture has a Muslim symbol and seen as offensive it is removed usually, but if it is anti-Christian, anti-Buddhist, anti-Judaism, anti-Druidry, literally anti-religion excluding anti-Muslim it is never an outcry that is heard nor is the offensive symbol removed? Maybe this goes to other issues instead of with me or against me but I feel it is still an issue no less. I guess we'll never live in a world where people could care less who you pray to and who you sleep with. Now in some you can relate this other cases wher people disagree only in different ways. Someone who is racist disagrees with racial differences along with hating them so that it is not a question of disagreement but of hate. A vegan disagrees for themselves and at times others that meat and animal products are not to be eaten but they do not hate those who disagree? How come when someone disagrees with homosexuality, all of a sudden all of those people regardless of reason are called hateful even if they stated who they hate no one who they disagree with?

I think that the "hatred" is mostly because there are still so many religious people (Not all, and not all christians, just religious in general) that do hate homosexuality, and even punish it as a crime.
Your religious book says some pretty weird things about it.

Genesis 19:1-11
That evening the two angels came to the entrance of the city of Sodom. Lot was sitting there, and when he saw them, he stood up to meet them. Then he welcomed them and bowed with his face to the ground. "My lords," he said, "come to my home to wash your feet, and be my guests for the night. You may then get up early in the morning and be on your way again." "Oh no," they replied. "We'll just spend the night out here in the city square." But Lot insisted, so at last they went home with him. Lot prepared a feast for them, complete with fresh bread made without yeast, and they ate. But before they retired for the night, all the men of Sodom, young and old, came from all over the city and surrounded the house. They shouted to Lot, "Where are the men who came to spend the night with you? Bring them out to us so we can have sex with them!"

So Lot stepped outside to talk to them, shutting the door behind him. "Please, my brothers," he begged, "don't do such a wicked thing. Look, I have two virgin daughters. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do with them as you wish. But please, leave these men alone, for they are my guests and are under my protection."

"Stand back!" they shouted. "This fellow came to town as an outsider, and now he's acting like our judge! We'll treat you far worse than those other men!"

Leviticus 18:22
"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin."

A detestable sin?
That word expressed hatred.

Leviticus 20:13
"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."

Again, detestable.

Also, there are still alot of christian groups with phrases like 'God hates fags", etc.
So I totaly get your point,
and not all christians hate homosexuals, and there is a type of prejeduce and hatred towards them; but it's for a reason.

[Lovelife090994]

A diagreement is when you think someone's opinion is wrong, and since homosexuality is not an opinion, what does that make you?
I'm not saying you are in hatred, just that a dissagreement is a whole different thing.
You can't "disagree" with someone's sking colour or hair colour or eye colour or the pitch of someone's voice or the shape of their face or the length or their limbs, etc.



I think that the "hatred" is mostly because there are still so many religious people (Not all, and not all christians, just religious in general) that do hate homosexuality, and even punish it as a crime.
Your religious book says some pretty weird things about it.





A detestable sin?
That word expressed hatred.



Again, detestable.

Also, there are still alot of christian groups with phrases like 'God hates fags", etc.
So I totaly get your point,
and not all christians hate homosexuals, and there is a type of prejeduce and hatred towards them; but it's for a reason.

The Bible marks homosexuality as a detestable sin many times. Keep in mind that just because it is sinful does not mean that homosexuals are damned or to be hated. God loves us in spite of what we do, Jesus too. Keep in mind Jesus shunned no one but told them to go and sin no more. To me prejudice shouldn't have a reason because no matter what it is to it can be seen as truly unfair. The Bible is not my book, it is a book for anyone to read if they wish. Oh, and to be clear, anyone saying God hates fags has just told to God that they are no longer Christian and believe in him since he loves all, sees all, and never hates anyone including Satan himself. Anyone using God as an excuse to hate has just made a fatal mistake.

[JamesSuperBoy]

I think the media and press have a whole lot of impact on this.

[Miserabilia]

The Bible marks homosexuality as a detestable sin many times. Keep in mind that just because it is sinful does not mean that homosexuals are damned or to be hated. God loves us in spite of what we do, Jesus too. Keep in mind Jesus shunned no one but told them to go and sin no more. To me prejudice shouldn't have a reason because no matter what it is to it can be seen as truly unfair. The Bible is not my book, it is a book for anyone to read if they wish. Oh, and to be clear, anyone saying God hates fags has just told to God that they are no longer Christian and believe in him since he loves all, sees all, and never hates anyone including Satan himself. Anyone using God as an excuse to hate has just made a fatal mistake.

Biblical books and scriptures call it detestable and an abomination, and some even go as far to say homosexuals should be put to death;
and also,
it says homosexuality is sin; so it implies that gay people will spend their entire afterlife in pain and suffering in hell for their "detestable deeds".
It kind of sound hateful.

Keep in mind that just because it is sinful does not mean that homosexuals are damned or to be hated. God loves us in spite of what we do, Jesus too.
If god loves homosexuals, he shouldn't let them burn in hell, right?

Oh, and to be clear, anyone saying God hates fags has just told to God that they are no longer Christian and believe in him since he loves all, sees all, and never hates anyone including Satan himself. Anyone using God as an excuse to hate has just made a fatal mistake.

I aggree, sadly people do say it all the time though.

[britishboy]

Some hate but others fear it will change what marriage means and the values associated with marriage.

[Lovelife090994]

Biblical books and scriptures call it detestable and an abomination, and some even go as far to say homosexuals should be put to death;
and also,
it says homosexuality is sin; so it implies that gay people will spend their entire afterlife in pain and suffering in hell for their "detestable deeds".
It kind of sound hateful.

Bear in mind what version that was. The Bible has been mistranslated enough. That may have been in the Old Testament. Why am I bringing this up? The Bible's Old Testament has many things in it that even God himself would not approve of. The Old Testament came before the birth of Jesus, and before his death making it where all can be with God in Heaven. Back then and before if you were Christian and didn't enforce the Bible then you were seen as not upholding the word of God even though God is not spiteful. I think the problem here is that some things were taken too literal. In the Quran similar scriptures that are graphic supposedly describe what could happen to the person in Hell. This is debatable since the Bible predates the Quran and since the Bible simply is not the Quran and has a New Testament. God does not send all homosexuals to Hell right off. Anyone can be accepted into him, but he will not force you to do so. Of course some radicals somewhere and at some points in time, might try and force you, but this goes to these false Christians who threw out their own faith since Christians are nearly forbidden to truly hate someone.



If god loves homosexuals, he shouldn't let them burn in hell, right?



The reason why a person goes to Hell can be found in many reasons. Usually it is when a person has rejected God. God does not force his followers to him, it is by choice for you to follow him or not. What sends you to Hell is how after death your soul without a body is no longer tied to Earth, and without God's grace since we have free will and may have chose to leave it then the only other place for souls is in Hell. Once you have chosen to not be with God then it is out of his hands because he won't force you to change your mind. A homosexual can still be Christian since to be Christian is to accept God as your personal Lord and saviour. Now, to that, homosexuality is a sin but no sin is above another, drinking, adultry, murder, all different, but none over the other. Sin is sin but even God will forgive it when you ask, although he holds no grudge if you don't.



I aggree, sadly people do say it all the time though.

That will probably never change since some people when blinded by hate lose all reason.

[Miserabilia]

Bear in mind what version that was. The Bible has been mistranslated enough. That may have been in the Old Testament. Why am I bringing this up? The Bible's Old Testament has many things in it that even God himself would not approve of. The Old Testament came before the birth of Jesus, and before his death making it where all can be with God in Heaven. Back then and before if you were Christian and didn't enforce the Bible then you were seen as not upholding the word of God even though God is not spiteful. I think the problem here is that some things were taken too literal. In the Quran similar scriptures that are graphic supposedly describe what could happen to the person in Hell. This is debatable since the Bible predates the Quran and since the Bible simply is not the Quran and has a New Testament. God does not send all homosexuals to Hell right off. Anyone can be accepted into him, but he will not force you to do so. Of course some radicals somewhere and at some points in time, might try and force you, but this goes to these false Christians who threw out their own faith since Christians are nearly forbidden to truly hate someone.


The reason why a person goes to Hell can be found in many reasons. Usually it is when a person has rejected God. God does not force his followers to him, it is by choice for you to follow him or not. What sends you to Hell is how after death your soul without a body is no longer tied to Earth, and without God's grace since we have free will and may have chose to leave it then the only other place for souls is in Hell. Once you have chosen to not be with God then it is out of his hands because he won't force you to change your mind. A homosexual can still be Christian since to be Christian is to accept God as your personal Lord and saviour. Now, to that, homosexuality is a sin but no sin is above another, drinking, adultry, murder, all different, but none over the other. Sin is sin but even God will forgive it when you ask, although he holds no grudge if you don't.



That will probably never change since some people when blinded by hate lose all reason.

The reason why a person goes to Hell can be found in many reasons. Usually it is when a person has rejected God. God does not force his followers to him, it is by choice for you to follow him or not. What sends you to Hell is how after death your soul without a body is no longer tied to Earth, and without God's grace since we have free will and may have chose to leave it then the only other place for souls is in Hell. Once you have chosen to not be with God then it is out of his hands because he won't force you to change your mind. A homosexual can still be Christian since to be Christian is to accept God as your personal Lord and saviour. Now, to that, homosexuality is a sin but no sin is above another, drinking, adultry, murder, all different, but none over the other. Sin is sin but even God will forgive it when you ask, although he holds no grudge if you don't.

Bible says:

-Sinners go to hell
-Homosexuals are sinners

So what, gay people should all pray to a god, and ask him for forgiving them for being so detestable sinners?
So if a person is gay and they don't ask for forgivenes, they will all burn in hell.

[Harry Smith]

Some hate but others fear it will change what marriage means and the values associated with marriage.

Yeah because marriage has had such a good track record over the last 100 years. It was like when Newt Gingrich a man who had been married 3 times stood at the republican convention to debate about how gays were 'devaluing' marriage-ironic much?

In regards to the OP-your quite easily homophobic. Your not convincing anyone with your routine.

I love hearing Christians tell me that homosexuality is wrong-this is a religion which says that we're all cursed because two people ate a piece of fruit in a garden 6,000 years ago. I'm going to have to follow Christianity in this case-it just makes so much sense. We need to send telepathic messages to the being in the sky to save ourself. To quote Tyrion Lannister....

Why are all the gods such vicious cunts?

[abc983055235235231a]

Those last lines sound hateful. Not everyone who disagrees with homosexuality are hateful nor do they all show hate because of it. Disagreeing with homosexuality is not hate. Religion is something you can choose to have but once you do it becomes deep in you. Your beliefs are not something someone can rip from you or fundamentally change when you stand by them. True, not everyone has a religion, true some people really hate religion and those involved, true not all racists condone slavery, but that doesn't mean that the hate factor is or isn't involved in these scenarios. You seem to think that just by disagreeing with homosexuality or not understanding it means the person is hateful to all homosexuals. That is not always the case. A person can literally hate my sexuality and never hate me. Why? Because my sexuality is a small bit to who and what I am. We all have personality, traits, likes, dislikes, beliefs, sexual preferences, lack of some sexual preferences, talents, so much more than our sexuality as a whole.

There is an important difference between "not understanding" something & "disagreeing" with something. There are many things which I don't possess an understanding of. But disagreeing with homosexuality is not the same thing as not understanding homosexuality.
And yes, you are spot on in thinking that I think disagreeing with homosexuality means that a person is hateful to all homosexuals. Being hateful doesn't require that you go around beating people up on sight, or that you refuse to associate with certain people. Being hateful has to do with our attitudes; and "disagreeing with homosexuality" is one such attitude which is by definition hateful.

[Miserabilia]

Those last lines sound hateful. Not everyone who disagrees with homosexuality are hateful nor do they all show hate because of it. Disagreeing with homosexuality is not hate. Religion is something you can choose to have but once you do it becomes deep in you. Your beliefs are not something someone can rip from you or fundamentally change when you stand by them. True, not everyone has a religion, true some people really hate religion and those involved, true not all racists condone slavery, but that doesn't mean that the hate factor is or isn't involved in these scenarios. You seem to think that just by disagreeing with homosexuality or not understanding it means the person is hateful to all homosexuals. That is not always the case. A person can literally hate my sexuality and never hate me. Why? Because my sexuality is a small bit to who and what I am. We all have personality, traits, likes, dislikes, beliefs, sexual preferences, lack of some sexual preferences, talents, so much more than our sexuality as a whole.

That's funny, you're saying that you are not hateful but you just "dissagree" with it, but when someone dissagrees with you you call them 'hateful".

[britishboy]

Yeah because marriage has had such a good track record over the last 100 years. It was like when Newt Gingrich a man who had been married 3 times stood at the republican convention to debate about how gays were 'devaluing' marriage-ironic much?

In regards to the OP-your quite easily homophobic. Your not convincing anyone with your routine.

I love hearing Christians tell me that homosexuality is wrong-this is a religion which says that we're all cursed because two people ate a piece of fruit in a garden 6,000 years ago. I'm going to have to follow Christianity in this case-it just makes so much sense. We need to send telepathic messages to the being in the sky to save ourself. To quote Tyrion Lannister....

Why are all the gods such vicious cunts?

I never said I believed that, I said not all those against gay marriage are homophobic, they fear it will make marriage less respected and lower moral but tbh that has all ready happened, you see people getting married under 20 after less than a year of dating in a terrible ceremony only to divorce less than a year later. I do doubt gay marriage will make the situation worse.

People should worry about their own marriage not others.

[Lovelife090994]

Bible says:

-Sinners go to hell
-Homosexuals are sinners

So what, gay people should all pray to a god, and ask him for forgiving them for being so detestable sinners?
So if a person is gay and they don't ask for forgivenes, they will all burn in hell.

A gay person could pray to God if they see fit. If a person is not with God and never asks to be with him they go to Hell. Being homosexual or not doesn't say you automatically go to Hell or not.

Yeah because marriage has had such a good track record over the last 100 years. It was like when Newt Gingrich a man who had been married 3 times stood at the republican convention to debate about how gays were 'devaluing' marriage-ironic much?

In regards to the OP-your quite easily homophobic. Your not convincing anyone with your routine.

I love hearing Christians tell me that homosexuality is wrong-this is a religion which says that we're all cursed because two people ate a piece of fruit in a garden 6,000 years ago. I'm going to have to follow Christianity in this case-it just makes so much sense. We need to send telepathic messages to the being in the sky to save ourself. To quote Tyrion Lannister....

Why are all the gods such vicious cunts?

Not all gods are as you put it so viciously, "cunts". This is where the line is drawn to where so many see the LGBT as hateful because many of the LGBT are flat out anti-religion which can be seen a theat. The Bible never mentions a number of years so where'd you get 6,000 years or the gall to insult the beliefs of over a billion people.

There is an important difference between "not understanding" something & "disagreeing" with something. There are many things which I don't possess an understanding of. But disagreeing with homosexuality is not the same thing as not understanding homosexuality.
And yes, you are spot on in thinking that I think disagreeing with homosexuality means that a person is hateful to all homosexuals. Being hateful doesn't require that you go around beating people up on sight, or that you refuse to associate with certain people. Being hateful has to do with our attitudes; and "disagreeing with homosexuality" is one such attitude which is by definition hateful.

Not everyone who disagrees with it is hateful. If you believe homosexuality is a sin tha doesn't mean you think people who are homosexual are evil and going to Hell.

That's funny, you're saying that you are not hateful but you just "dissagree" with it, but when someone dissagrees with you you call them 'hateful".

It is hateful when you defame someone's religion. That is where it gets hateful. I disagree with homosexuality because I support traditional marriage, and think homosexuality is a sin. I however do not think it is right for homosexuals to be discriminated against.

[abc983055235235231a]

A gay person could pray to God if they see fit. If a person is not with God and never asks to be with him they go to Hell. Being homosexual or not doesn't say you automatically go to Hell or not.



Not all gods are as you put it so viciously, "cunts". This is where the line is drawn to where so many see the LGBT as hateful because many of the LGBT are flat out anti-religion which can be seen a theat. The Bible never mentions a number of years so where'd you get 6,000 years or the gall to insult the beliefs of over a billion people.



Not everyone who disagrees with it is hateful. If you believe homosexuality is a sin tha doesn't mean you think people who are homosexual are evil and going to Hell.



It is hateful when you defame someone's religion. That is where it gets hateful. I disagree with homosexuality because I support traditional marriage, and think homosexuality is a sin. I however do not think it is right for homosexuals to be discriminated against.

...Since when did "hate" require that you think people are "going to Hell"? Does that mean people who don't believe in Hell are incapable of hate?

[Lovelife090994]

...Since when did "hate" require that you think people are "going to Hell"? Does that mean people who don't believe in Hell are incapable of hate?

All people are capable of hate in some way, shape, or form.

[Miserabilia]

A gay person could pray to God if they see fit. If a person is not with God and never asks to be with him they go to Hell. Being homosexual or not doesn't say you automatically go to Hell or not.



Not all gods are as you put it so viciously, "cunts". This is where the line is drawn to where so many see the LGBT as hateful because many of the LGBT are flat out anti-religion which can be seen a theat. The Bible never mentions a number of years so where'd you get 6,000 years or the gall to insult the beliefs of over a billion people.



Not everyone who disagrees with it is hateful. If you believe homosexuality is a sin tha doesn't mean you think people who are homosexual are evil and going to Hell.



It is hateful when you defame someone's religion. That is where it gets hateful. I disagree with homosexuality because I support traditional marriage, and think homosexuality is a sin. I however do not think it is right for homosexuals to be discriminated against.

It is hateful when you defame someone's religion. That is where it gets hateful. I disagree with homosexuality because I support traditional marriage, and think homosexuality is a sin. I however do not think it is right for homosexuals to be discriminated against.
lol?
Nobody discriminated against your religion, they just spoke their opinion about it and you called it "hatred".
How was it any different from your "disagreeing"with homosexuality?

A gay person could pray to God if they see fit. If a person is not with God and never asks to be with him they go to Hell. Being homosexual or not doesn't say you automatically go to Hell or not.


Yes it does, it's implying that gay people need to pray for forgivenes, and otherwise they have to go to hell.
So if a gay person is atheist, christianity basicly says well bad luck, guess you'll have to burn in eternity?

[Luminous]

Absolutely not. I know people that disagree with homosexuality and believe it's a choice, but they are not hateful and they do not judge.

[Harry Smith]

As I've said many times the opponents of same sex marriage are no different to opponents of desegregation in the south-they both use the Bible to preach hate, they're argument lacks any facts and they're opposed to Equal rights. We all know what happened to the South in the 1960's right?

[Lovelife090994]

lol?
Nobody discriminated against your religion, they just spoke their opinion about it and you called it "hatred".
How was it any different from your "disagreeing"with homosexuality?



Yes it does, it's implying that gay people need to pray for forgivenes, and otherwise they have to go to hell.
So if a gay person is atheist, christianity basicly says well bad luck, guess you'll have to burn in eternity?

I was explaining something to him. You, don't quite know what you are saying it seems. Yes, technically any person would go to Hell if not with God since like I said he won't force you to go to him and when you aren't with you are to the Earth. You are only on Earth when alive with a body, once you are a soul you do not stay in limbo, you go to Hell, and not because you are a bad person. Many good people are in Hell too.

[Lovelife090994]

As I've said many times the opponents of same sex marriage are no different to opponents of desegregation in the south-they both use the Bible to preach hate, they're argument lacks any facts and they're opposed to Equal rights. We all know what happened to the South in the 1960's right?

I hope we all know what happened during the Civil Rights Movement. You just put those with an opinion in the same box as hate groups and violent racists.

[abc983055235235231a]

I hope we all know what happened during the Civil Rights Movement. You just put those with an opinion in the same box as hate groups and violent racists.

...the whole point of the civil rights movement was to fight those "opinions". The civil rights movement wasn't about abolishing slavery. Slavery was long gone from the USA at that point. The civil rights movement was about establishing equal rights, as well as a few other things.
So if today we have a bunch of people whose "opinions" are that gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married, then... well.... you have a bunch of people whose "opinions" are that gay people should not have equal rights, which is *exactly* like the civil rights issues of the civil rights movement.

I was explaining something to him. You, don't quite know what you are saying it seems. Yes, technically any person would go to Hell if not with God since like I said he won't force you to go to him and when you aren't with you are to the Earth. You are only on Earth when alive with a body, once you are a soul you do not stay in limbo, you go to Hell, and not because you are a bad person. Many good people are in Hell too.

Sort of sad that God would choose to punish infinitely good people simply for not "being with him".

[Lovelife090994]

...the whole point of the civil rights movement was to fight those "opinions". The civil rights movement wasn't about abolishing slavery. Slavery was long gone from the USA at that point. The civil rights movement was about establishing equal rights, as well as a few other things.
So if today we have a bunch of people whose "opinions" are that gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married, then... well.... you have a bunch of people whose "opinions" are that gay people should not have equal rights, which is *exactly* like the civil rights issues of the civil rights movement.



Sort of sad that God would choose to punish infinitely good people simply for not "being with him".

God isn't choosing to have anyone be punished. When one does not side with God especially since God isn't forcing you to then you are tied to Earth and Earth is physical. When a person tied to the world dies there is nowhere else to go but Hell. I cannot change what the Bible dictates.

[Miserabilia]

I was explaining something to him. You, don't quite know what you are saying it seems. Yes, technically any person would go to Hell if not with God since like I said he won't force you to go to him and when you aren't with you are to the Earth. You are only on Earth when alive with a body, once you are a soul you do not stay in limbo, you go to Hell, and not because you are a bad person. Many good people are in Hell too.

Wow so how does that even make sense.
Do you like to beleive in a god that lets good people burn in eternity?
What's the point of beleiving in heaven and hell as youll end up burning anyway?

[Lovelife090994]

Wow so how does that even make sense.
Do you like to beleive in a god that lets good people burn in eternity?
What's the point of beleiving in heaven and hell as youll end up burning anyway?

With that logic it sounds brutal. But it's not like God likes watching his people suffer. Hell is out of his hands since he left it to te Devil free of his divine hands. If you go to Hell it hurts God, but know he can't pull you out until before you go and commit to him. True, it sounds farfetched to some but that is how the belief goes. If you follow God, great. If you don't great. If you end up in Hell, not great. Whether a person goes to Hell is between the person and God, nothing to do with their friends, family, lifestyle, religion, it just is as it is.

What is written in the Bible is written. You don't have to believe it, but I don't see the problem with letting others believe it. The point to believing in God is when you do so out of love. No fear of Hell will keep you to God because life is tough and from personal experiences it is a tough walk, but Christians do this. Christianity is not the only faith that has a Hell or place where people go who don't go to God. Like I said God is not necessarily letting his people burn but it goes against how all was set up before for him to extinguish Hell at this time since Hell is the Devil's domain. There is a reason why you never hear of God or the Devial going to eachother's dominion, it is not to be done. God can do as he pleases but he acts in order, the world both spiritual and physical has an order.

[abc983055235235231a]

With that logic it sounds brutal. But it's not like God likes watching his people suffer. Hell is out of his hands since he left it to te Devil free of his divine hands. If you go to Hell it hurts God, but know he can't pull you out until before you go and commit to him. True, it sounds farfetched to some but that is how the belief goes. If you follow God, great. If you don't great. If you end up in Hell, not great. Whether a person goes to Hell is between the person and God, nothing to do with their friends, family, lifestyle, religion, it just is as it is.

What is written in the Bible is written. You don't have to believe it, but I don't see the problem with letting others believe it. The point to believing in God is when you do so out of love. No fear of Hell will keep you to God because life is tough and from personal experiences it is a tough walk, but Christians do this. Christianity is not the only faith that has a Hell or place where people go who don't go to God. Like I said God is not necessarily letting his people burn but it goes against how all was set up before for him to extinguish Hell at this time since Hell is the Devil's domain. There is a reason why you never hear of God or the Devial going to eachother's dominion, it is not to be done. God can do as he pleases but he acts in order, the world both spiritual and physical has an order.

I honestly didn't mean to derail this into a religious thread, but the very nature of God is such that Hell isn't "out of his hands". God is all-powerful. If God is the creator of these worlds, then even if there is some order that God cannot change, God is still responsible for that order coming about, and God could have chosen to structure existence in such a way that good people do not burn in Hell for all of eternity.

[Lovelife090994]

I honestly didn't mean to derail this into a religious thread, but the very nature of God is such that Hell isn't "out of his hands". God is all-powerful. If God is the creator of these worlds, then even if there is some order that God cannot change, God is still responsible for that order coming about, and God could have chosen to structure existence in such a way that good people do not burn in Hell for all of eternity.

God is all-powerful but this shows how is order is rather fixed. Whether or not Hell is this fiery place can be up to debate. Who's to say? Actually many have said things on it. But God doesn't want death. It breaks a piece of his heart each time a person dies and goes to Hell. God wanted his people with him which is why Jesus had to die on the cross, his blood was pure and cleansed the sins of man and to some extent Adam and Eve's sins even though we no longer live our long lives.

The part I think those who are not Christian fail to see is, is that this is no attack to you. No Christian will tell you to change unless we really do care and want the best for you in the hereafter, but many who are like that tend to be overly religious. The main thing is how one doesn't choose Hell, Hell exists as a place the dead go if not save by grace. But because it is your choice to or not that is why. Remember, Satan made a deal to have all the wayward souls. God I'm sure did not want this. The point of Hell is to be cut from God. If you are cut from God then you truly are damned and cannot be brought up into Heaven, and since relationships to God are a link, Hell severs that link. Hell is more of a place to keep out then in, it keeps God and his angels out. But in some sects people believe that those in Hell are not to be there forever, there will be another chance.

[Miserabilia]

With that logic it sounds brutal. But it's not like God likes watching his people suffer. Hell is out of his hands since he left it to te Devil free of his divine hands. If you go to Hell it hurts God, but know he can't pull you out until before you go and commit to him. True, it sounds farfetched to some but that is how the belief goes. If you follow God, great. If you don't great. If you end up in Hell, not great. Whether a person goes to Hell is between the person and God, nothing to do with their friends, family, lifestyle, religion, it just is as it is.

What is written in the Bible is written. You don't have to believe it, but I don't see the problem with letting others believe it. The point to believing in God is when you do so out of love. No fear of Hell will keep you to God because life is tough and from personal experiences it is a tough walk, but Christians do this. Christianity is not the only faith that has a Hell or place where people go who don't go to God. Like I said God is not necessarily letting his people burn but it goes against how all was set up before for him to extinguish Hell at this time since Hell is the Devil's domain. There is a reason why you never hear of God or the Devial going to eachother's dominion, it is not to be done. God can do as he pleases but he acts in order, the world both spiritual and physical has an order.

God is all-powerful but this shows how is order is rather fixed. Whether or not Hell is this fiery place can be up to debate. Who's to say? Actually many have said things on it. But God doesn't want death. It breaks a piece of his heart each time a person dies and goes to Hell. God wanted his people with him which is why Jesus had to die on the cross, his blood was pure and cleansed the sins of man and to some extent Adam and Eve's sins even though we no longer live our long lives.

The part I think those who are not Christian fail to see is, is that this is no attack to you. No Christian will tell you to change unless we really do care and want the best for you in the hereafter, but many who are like that tend to be overly religious. The main thing is how one doesn't choose Hell, Hell exists as a place the dead go if not save by grace. But because it is your choice to or not that is why. Remember, Satan made a deal to have all the wayward souls. God I'm sure did not want this. The point of Hell is to be cut from God. If you are cut from God then you truly are damned and cannot be brought up into Heaven, and since relationships to God are a link, Hell severs that link. Hell is more of a place to keep out then in, it keeps God and his angels out. But in some sects people believe that those in Hell are not to be there forever, there will be another chance.

nothing to do with their friends, family, lifestyle, religion, it just is as it is.

- Christianity says the bible is the word of god
- The bible says sinners go to hell
- The bible says homosexuality is a sin

If god is so all loving why does he allow for people to burn in hell?
Even when they don't deserve it?

So are you saying that because a particular individaul doesn't beleive in god, they are to burn in hell?

[Harry Smith]

I hope we all know what happened during the Civil Rights Movement. You just put those with an opinion in the same box as hate groups and violent racists.

How is racism any different to homophobia? How is denying rights to Blacks any different to denying rights to gays? People like you are going to be swept aside in the history books with the slavers, racists and genocidal folk

[Lovelife090994]

- Christianity says the bible is the word of god
- The bible says sinners go to hell
- The bible says homosexuality is a sin

If god is so all loving why does he allow for people to burn in hell?
Even when they don't deserve it?

So are you saying that because a particular individaul doesn't beleive in god, they are to burn in hell?

If you go by the Bible, it is a yes and no answer since it is up to the person. Now, if you don't believe in this why does it concern you? Most Christians don't preach how everyone is going to Hell because no one wants to be condemned. In the end God judges it too because he knows your heart. DO gay people go to Hell? Not necessarily. Do all sinners go to Hell? No, because we are all sinners and with that logic no one would be with God.

How is racism any different to homophobia? How is denying rights to Blacks any different to denying rights to gays? People like you are going to be swept aside in the history books with the slavers, racists and genocidal folk

The difference is how not everyone who doesn't agree with or understand homosexuality is out to get homosexuals. With those who are racists they enslaved people, and wanted to go after those who are different. And homophobia is supposedly a phobia but not in the way the LGBT uses the word. Genocidal people are ateful brutes with no regards to life. Not all who are not allies to the LGBT are genocidal. Besides, in some countries like in Japan they accept sexuality regardless since that is their culture. But it is also against their culture to protest loudly orhave a problem with another person's opinion, something the LGBT does. People like me? How dare you. I am not like a racist or slaver. I am a Christian Black male in America and I would never hurt anyone nor condone discrimination in any degree. How can you accuse me of that when you don't even know me?

[abc983055235235231a]

If you go by the Bible, it is a yes and no answer since it is up to the person. Now, if you don't believe in this why does it concern you? Most Christians don't preach how everyone is going to Hell because no one wants to be condemned. In the end God judges it too because he knows your heart. DO gay people go to Hell? Not necessarily. Do all sinners go to Hell? No, because we are all sinners and with that logic no one would be with God.



The difference is how not everyone who doesn't agree with or understand homosexuality is out to get homosexuals. With those who are racists they enslaved people, and wanted to go after those who are different. And homophobia is supposedly a phobia but not in the way the LGBT uses the word. Genocidal people are ateful brutes with no regards to life. Not all who are not allies to the LGBT are genocidal. Besides, in some countries like in Japan they accept sexuality regardless since that is their culture. But it is also against their culture to protest loudly orhave a problem with another person's opinion, something the LGBT does. People like me? How dare you. I am not like a racist or slaver. I am a Christian Black male in America and I would never hurt anyone nor condone discrimination in any degree. How can you accuse me of that when you don't even know me?

Insofar as homophobia is a "phobia" it is a misnomer.

But the point, which I already pointed out to you, is that *RACISM* doesn't require *A DESIRE TO ENSLAVE PEOPLE OF A CERTAIN RACE*. *RACISM* simply refers to *CERTAIN ATTITUDES TOWARDS PEOPLE OF A CERTAIN RACE*. A person can be *RACIST* without wanting to *ENSLAVE PEOPLE*. You can be *RACIST* just in virtue of *HAVING CERTAIN OPINIONS ABOUT PEOPLE OF A CERTAIN RACE*. That is what *RACISM* is.
Similarly, *HAVING CERTAIN ATTITUDES ABOUT GAY PEOPLE* is *HOMOPHOBIC* to the exact same extent that *HAVING CERTAIN ATTITUDES ABOUT (e.g.) BLACK PEOPLE* is *RACIST*. Those attitudes *DO NOT NEED TO BE THE DESIRE TO ENSLAVE THE POPULATION* but rather can include things such as *OPPOSING EQUALITY (e.g., marriage equality for gay people)*.

I can accuse you of condoning discrimination because you are discriminating .....

it's pretty simple

[Lovelife090994]

Insofar as homophobia is a "phobia" it is a misnomer.

But the point, which I already pointed out to you, is that *RACISM* doesn't require *A DESIRE TO ENSLAVE PEOPLE OF A CERTAIN RACE*. *RACISM* simply refers to *CERTAIN ATTITUDES TOWARDS PEOPLE OF A CERTAIN RACE*. A person can be *RACIST* without wanting to *ENSLAVE PEOPLE*. You can be *RACIST* just in virtue of *HAVING CERTAIN OPINIONS ABOUT PEOPLE OF A CERTAIN RACE*. That is what *RACISM* is.
Similarly, *HAVING CERTAIN ATTITUDES ABOUT GAY PEOPLE* is *HOMOPHOBIC* to the exact same extent that *HAVING CERTAIN ATTITUDES ABOUT (e.g.) BLACK PEOPLE* is *RACIST*. Those attitudes *DO NOT NEED TO BE THE DESIRE TO ENSLAVE THE POPULATION* but rather can include things such as *OPPOSING EQUALITY (e.g., marriage equality for gay people)*.

I can accuse you of condoning discrimination because you are discriminating .....

it's pretty simple

No it is not always that simple. I would never discriminate against a gay person, so that is not discrimination. I just disagree with the lifestyle. I'd never tell the person I hate them.

[abc983055235235231a]

No it is not always that simple. I would never discriminate against a gay person, so that is not discrimination. I just disagree with the lifestyle. I'd never tell the person I hate them.

....yes....it really is that simple.

It has nothing to do with telling a person you hate them

It has nothing to do with enslaving them

It has nothing to do with setting fire to their houses

It has nothing to do with making angry faces at them

It has nothing to do with looking at them a bit funny

all
it
has
to
do
with
is
having
certain
opinions
about
gay
people

[Harry Smith]

I would never discriminate against a gay person, .

By opposing gay marriage you are discriminating against gays-that's a legal fact (which has in fact been upheld by federal judges)

I am a Christian Black male in America

How can you be Black and opposed to Equal rights? Have you heard of this small thing called the civil rights movement? You know when Blacks wanted equal rights-how would you feel if you weren't allowed to marry a white women?

[Zenos]

Lovelife090994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flexography View Post
Insofar as homophobia is a "phobia" it is a misnomer.

But the point, which I already pointed out to you, is that *RACISM* doesn't require *A DESIRE TO ENSLAVE PEOPLE OF A CERTAIN RACE*. *RACISM* simply refers to *CERTAIN ATTITUDES TOWARDS PEOPLE OF A CERTAIN RACE*. A person can be *RACIST* without wanting to *ENSLAVE PEOPLE*. You can be *RACIST* just in virtue of *HAVING CERTAIN OPINIONS ABOUT PEOPLE OF A CERTAIN RACE*. That is what *RACISM* is.
Similarly, *HAVING CERTAIN ATTITUDES ABOUT GAY PEOPLE* is *HOMOPHOBIC* to the exact same extent that *HAVING CERTAIN ATTITUDES ABOUT (e.g.) BLACK PEOPLE* is *RACIST*. Those attitudes *DO NOT NEED TO BE THE DESIRE TO ENSLAVE THE POPULATION* but rather can include things such as *OPPOSING EQUALITY (e.g., marriage equality for gay people)*.

I can accuse you of condoning discrimination because you are discriminating .....

it's pretty simple

No it is not always that simple. I would never discriminate against a gay person, so that is not discrimination. I just disagree with the lifestyle. I'd never tell the person I hate them. [/QUOTE]

(First off Lovelife090994 being gay, bisexual or lesbian is not a lifestyle, calling it a lifestyle is basically saying oh well they choose to be gay or bi or lesbian. Yeh you do have some people out there faking it simply because people that are gay,lesbian or bisexual tend to be popular so some fake it just to be popular and to get "the girl" or "guy" they want to take interest in them so they can later claim "oh such and such" turned me straight and we're dating now. yes I have seen that happen enough that now with everyone that's coming out I wonder are they for real or are they doing that because they see being GBLT as a fad and a way to eventually get someone of the opposite sex )



By opposing gay marriage you are discriminating against gays-that's a legal fact (which has in fact been upheld by federal judges)



How can you be Black and opposed to Equal rights? Have you heard of this small thing called the civil rights movement? You know when Blacks wanted equal rights-how would you feel if you weren't allowed to marry a white women?

Trust me dude when it comes to us non-straights it's easy for anyone to turn into a raving hypocrite!

[Lovelife090994]

....yes....it really is that simple.

It has nothing to do with telling a person you hate them

It has nothing to do with enslaving them

It has nothing to do with setting fire to their houses

It has nothing to do with making angry faces at them

It has nothing to do with looking at them a bit funny

all
it
has
to
do
with
is
having
certain
opinions
about
gay
people

Here's the thing, you are saying all that oppose or misunderstand are hateful when they are not.

By opposing gay marriage you are discriminating against gays-that's a legal fact (which has in fact been upheld by federal judges)



How can you be Black and opposed to Equal rights? Have you heard of this small thing called the civil rights movement? You know when Blacks wanted equal rights-how would you feel if you weren't allowed to marry a white women?

I can marry any woman I fall in love with, color doesn't matter. The Civil Rights Movement was not small, not by a longshot. You are accusing me of things that are not to do with me, or you are hitting things on me because you equate disagreeing with homosexuality as being an enemy to civil rights. Technically I am not for either, I am not for violence or discrimination to gays but I am not so sure on gay marriage either. Especially considering how so many gays want tolerance unless you disagree with them and then they swarm you.

[Lovelife090994]

Lovelife090994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flexography View Post
Insofar as homophobia is a "phobia" it is a misnomer.

But the point, which I already pointed out to you, is that *RACISM* doesn't require *A DESIRE TO ENSLAVE PEOPLE OF A CERTAIN RACE*. *RACISM* simply refers to *CERTAIN ATTITUDES TOWARDS PEOPLE OF A CERTAIN RACE*. A person can be *RACIST* without wanting to *ENSLAVE PEOPLE*. You can be *RACIST* just in virtue of *HAVING CERTAIN OPINIONS ABOUT PEOPLE OF A CERTAIN RACE*. That is what *RACISM* is.
Similarly, *HAVING CERTAIN ATTITUDES ABOUT GAY PEOPLE* is *HOMOPHOBIC* to the exact same extent that *HAVING CERTAIN ATTITUDES ABOUT (e.g.) BLACK PEOPLE* is *RACIST*. Those attitudes *DO NOT NEED TO BE THE DESIRE TO ENSLAVE THE POPULATION* but rather can include things such as *OPPOSING EQUALITY (e.g., marriage equality for gay people)*.

I can accuse you of condoning discrimination because you are discriminating .....

it's pretty simple

No it is not always that simple. I would never discriminate against a gay person, so that is not discrimination. I just disagree with the lifestyle. I'd never tell the person I hate them.

(First off Lovelife090994 being gay, bisexual or lesbian is not a lifestyle, calling it a lifestyle is basically saying oh well they choose to be gay or bi or lesbian. Yeh you do have some people out there faking it simply because people that are gay,lesbian or bisexual tend to be popular so some fake it just to be popular and to get "the girl" or "guy" they want to take interest in them so they can later claim "oh such and such" turned me straight and we're dating now. yes I have seen that happen enough that now with everyone that's coming out I wonder are they for real or are they doing that because they see being GBLT as a fad and a way to eventually get someone of the opposite sex )





Trust me dude when it comes to us non-straights it's easy for anyone to turn into a raving hypocrite![/QUOTE]

A lifestyle is something that is a way you live your life, it is not always choice. It is a different lifestyle though. A straight person and gay person may have a similar life but not the same lifestyle or way or living. Plus, lifestyle is my way of phrasing, it is not an insult. Plus, I think people faking to be gay are just confused or looking for attention in all the wrong ways.

[Harry Smith]

. Especially considering how so many gays want tolerance unless you disagree with them and then they swarm you.

Yeah us gays are so evil aren't we? Maybe if you stop being a homophobic bigot then the gay community want sworm on you. Do you want us to have photo's of you in our house because you're opposed to equal rights? How else do you expect us to react? I'm sick of you constantly going on about how gays target you-get over yourself. Why should we respect you when you stand oppose to our very rights?

Stop pretending as if your somehow being discriminated against by the gay community-you have no idea what your talking about

Exactly-that's my point. I don't want you to be tolerant to gays-I want you to support legal civil rights. It doesn't matter what you think about gay sex or whatever the Bible tells you to think-everyone should have equal rights in the law

[Zenos]

(First off Lovelife090994 being gay, bisexual or lesbian is not a lifestyle, calling it a lifestyle is basically saying oh well they choose to be gay or bi or lesbian. Yeh you do have some people out there faking it simply because people that are gay,lesbian or bisexual tend to be popular so some fake it just to be popular and to get "the girl" or "guy" they want to take interest in them so they can later claim "oh such and such" turned me straight and we're dating now. yes I have seen that happen enough that now with everyone that's coming out I wonder are they for real or are they doing that because they see being GBLT as a fad and a way to eventually get someone of the opposite sex )





Trust me dude when it comes to us non-straights it's easy for anyone to turn into a raving hypocrite!

A lifestyle is something that is a way you live your life, it is not always choice. It is a different lifestyle though. A straight person and gay person may have a similar life but not the same lifestyle or way or living. Plus, lifestyle is my way of phrasing, it is not an insult. Plus, I think people faking to be gay are just confused or looking for attention in all the wrong ways.[/QUOTE]

Well for me being Bisexual just is,anyone that's got to say oh well for me it's a lifestyle(insert preferred sexuality) is full of crock ...why do I say that ? because sexuality just is..it's not a lifestyle which infers a choice anyone that wants to hinge their sexuality on a so-called lifestyle is full of it.

[Lovelife090994]

Yeah us gays are so evil aren't we? Maybe if you stop being a homophobic bigot then the gay community want sworm on you. Do you want us to have photo's of you in our house because you're opposed to equal rights? How else do you expect us to react? I'm sick of you constantly going on about how gays target you-get over yourself. Why should we respect you when you stand oppose to our very rights

Exactly-that's my point. I don't want you to be tolerant to gays-I want you to support legal civil rights. It doesn't matter what you think about gay sex or whatever the Bible tells you to think-everyone should have equal rights in the law

See that's the problem, you are insulting me now. How can you expect anyone to come to accept you if you insult them and teir beliefs? I respect people no matter what until they disrespect me, something you are clearly doing. I don't see how it is equal rights when you are demanding rights that were never written nor even thought about until now. I wish you would stop saying how I am playing victim. The only thing I victim to is a history of sad events and thoughts, but not to you.

A lifestyle is something that is a way you live your life, it is not always choice. It is a different lifestyle though. A straight person and gay person may have a similar life but not the same lifestyle or way or living. Plus, lifestyle is my way of phrasing, it is not an insult. Plus, I think people faking to be gay are just confused or looking for attention in all the wrong ways.

Well for me being Bisexual just is,anyone that's got to say oh well for me it's a lifestyle(insert preferred sexuality) is full of crock ...why do I say that ? because sexuality just is..it's not a lifestyle which infers a choice anyone that wants to hinge their sexuality on a so-called lifestyle is full of it.[/QUOTE]

That's debatable since sexulity usually is not apparent until puberty or even years after. If someone calls it a lifestyle it is because is a life different to theirs and lived in a different style. Some do use the word lifestyle wrong, but not all.

[Zenos]

See that's the problem, you are insulting me now. How can you expect anyone to come to accept you if you insult them and teir beliefs? I respect people no matter what until they disrespect me, something you are clearly doing. I don't see how it is equal rights when you are demanding rights that were never written nor even thought about until now. I wish you would stop saying how I am playing victim. The only thing I victim to is a history of sad events and thoughts, but not to you.



Well for me being Bisexual just is,anyone that's got to say oh well for me it's a lifestyle(insert preferred sexuality) is full of crock ...why do I say that ? because sexuality just is..it's not a lifestyle which infers a choice anyone that wants to hinge their sexuality on a so-called lifestyle is full of it.


That's debatable since sexulity usually is not apparent until puberty or even years after. If someone calls it a lifestyle it is because is a life different to theirs and lived in a different style. Some do use the word lifestyle wrong, but not all.[/QUOTE]

lol my life is no different then any other humans,and my sexuality does not have abearing on what kind of lifestyle I live.

[abc983055235235231a]

Here's the thing, you are saying all that oppose or misunderstand are hateful when they are not.



I've said this repeatedly in this thread, and you just don't get it. Misunderstanding something is not the same thing as opposing it. There are lots of things I do not understand which I do not oppose. To *OPPOSE* homosexuality, however, *IS* *HATE*. The two things are the *EXACT SAME*. There is no additional hate which needs to be added into the equation. As soon as you *OPPOSE HOMOSEXUALITY* you have *HATE*. *HATE* does not require *A DESIRE FOR ENSLAVEMENT*. It does not require *GOING UP TO A PERSON AND SAYING THAT YOU HATE THEM*. All it requires is that *OPPOSITION TO HOMOSEXUALITY*. This is not astrophysics.



I can marry any woman I fall in love with, color doesn't matter. The Civil Rights Movement was not small, not by a longshot. You are accusing me of things that are not to do with me, or you are hitting things on me because you equate disagreeing with homosexuality as being an enemy to civil rights. Technically I am not for either, I am not for violence or discrimination to gays but I am not so sure on gay marriage either. Especially considering how so many gays want tolerance unless you disagree with them and then they swarm you.
idk, getting swarmed by gays sounds pretty okay

[StoppingTime]

A personal opinion should not make a person automatically wrong either. No one wants to be ridiculed for having a different opinion. My cousin does not agree with homosexuality yet is a nice person who is a friend to anyone regardless.

I'm sure he is...but opinions can be factually incorrect. For example if I held the opinion that the universe was heliocentric, well, I'd be wrong. It doesn't matter that it's my opinion; my opinion has been proven wrong unquestionably and is therefore incorrect.


The problem with bringing in race is that race is something we are all born as. There is no way to be a certain race, you just have it. Sexuality however is something not everyone has. Not everyone acts like they have this or that sexuality.

..No? Sexuality is just as out of one's control as race is, and as everyone's said, there's more than enough information out there to prove it, you just choose to ignore it

Sexuality has behaviors, race doesn't.

Disregarding the fact that that isn't even completely true, it's entirely off topic.

Plus Blacks were onced treated lower than dogs, homosexuals have always been able to vote, own property, marry a person of the opposite sex,

...what the fuck? "Oh yeah they're not oppressed they've always been able to do things as long as they straight." That's literally a ridiculous argument.

It is hateful when you defame someone's religion. That is where it gets hateful. I disagree with homosexuality because I support traditional marriage, and think homosexuality is a sin. I however do not think it is right for homosexuals to be discriminated against.

So if I were to disagree with Christianity because it supports Jesus, am I "hating" that religion?

________

And on a different note,

But it's not like God likes watching his people suffer.

What I don't understand is why, throughout the thread, you've essentially spoken for whatever God you believe in. As far as I know, the Christian God isn't someone/thing that can be truly understood by individuals, so why are you all of a sudden hiding behind what you think God "likes" and "wants" to support your "disagreement" with homosexuality?


Especially considering how so many gays want tolerance unless you disagree with them and then they swarm you.

Right, as I'm sure no other oppressed minority has eeeeeeeeeeever done this. And it's not wrong, either. If one is denied basic human rights, they have every right to fight against said oppressors.

[Harry Smith]

I don't see how it is equal rights when you are demanding rights that were never written nor even thought about until now.

Universal declaration of human rights and the united states Constitution both disagree with you-I know I say this a lot but your simply wrong. You have no idea what your talking about do you? This is what a federal judge said

state-imposed inequality can find no refuge in our United States Constitution

[Lovelife090994]

I've said this repeatedly in this thread, and you just don't get it. Misunderstanding something is not the same thing as opposing it. There are lots of things I do not understand which I do not oppose. To *OPPOSE* homosexuality, however, *IS* *HATE*. The two things are the *EXACT SAME*. There is no additional hate which needs to be added into the equation. As soon as you *OPPOSE HOMOSEXUALITY* you have *HATE*. *HATE* does not require *A DESIRE FOR ENSLAVEMENT*. It does not require *GOING UP TO A PERSON AND SAYING THAT YOU HATE THEM*. All it requires is that *OPPOSITION TO HOMOSEXUALITY*. This is not astrophysics.



idk, getting swarmed by gays sounds pretty okay

How is that remotely different? How is okay to be swarmed?

That's debatable since sexulity usually is not apparent until puberty or even years after. If someone calls it a lifestyle it is because is a life different to theirs and lived in a different style. Some do use the word lifestyle wrong, but not all.

lol my life is no different then any other humans,and my sexuality does not have abearing on what kind of lifestyle I live.[/QUOTE]

True, you and I have our lives and our differences. We are both human, but we both live differently, that is a lifestyle.

[Harry Smith]

How is that remotely different? How is okay to be swarmed?

It was a gay joke, do you have any sense of like irony or sarcasm?

We are both human,

Then why should we treat humans different based on something so trivial such as the piece of meat between their legs

[Zenos]

How is that remotely different? How is okay to be swarmed?



lol my life is no different then any other humans,and my sexuality does not have abearing on what kind of lifestyle I live.

True, you and I have our lives and our differences. We are both human, but we both live differently, that is a lifestyle.[/QUOTE]

true but does your sexuality dictate your lifestyle?

I doubt it and I feel just among gays alone,to many use their sexuality as an excuse to live this trumped up flamboyant flammeresque psudeo-lifestyle.

[Lovelife090994]

I'm sure he is...but opinions can be factually incorrect. For example if I held the opinion that the universe was heliocentric, well, I'd be wrong. It doesn't matter that it's my opinion; my opinion has been proven wrong unquestionably and is therefore incorrect.




..No? Sexuality is just as out of one's control as race is, and as everyone's said, there's more than enough information out there to prove it, you just choose to ignore it


Disregarding the fact that that isn't even completely true, it's entirely off topic.



...what the fuck? "Oh yeah they're not oppressed they've always been able to do things as long as they straight." That's literally a ridiculous argument.



So if I were to disagree with Christianity because it supports Jesus, am I "hating" that religion?

________

And on a different note,



What I don't understand is why, throughout the thread, you've essentially spoken for whatever God you believe in. As far as I know, the Christian God isn't someone/thing that can be truly understood by individuals, so why are you all of a sudden hiding behind what you think God "likes" and "wants" to support your "disagreement" with homosexuality?



Right, as I'm sure no other oppressed minority has eeeeeeeeeeever done this. And it's not wrong, either. If one is denied basic human rights, they have every right to fight against said oppressors.

I am no oppressor nor am I hiding. It is my right to have my beliefs and I beleve God loves us all. However I feel marriage is between a man and a woman for what marriage is, sacred. True, so many have tarnished marriage but that doesn't mean it is all wrong. I honestly could care less what two or more people do, but that doesn't mean I can't have my opinion about it.

Universal declaration of human rights and the united states Constitution both disagree with you-I know I say this a lot but your simply wrong. You have no idea what your talking about do you? This is what a federal judge said

I know what I am talking about. I also know what I am saying and stand by what I believe in, traditional marriage.

It was a gay joke, do you have any sense of like irony or sarcasm?



Then why should we treat humans different based on something so trivial such as the piece of meat between their legs

I have a sense of irony and sarcasm but I am not very dark with it or sexual with it. Treating someone different based on what is between their legs goes to gender differences and gender inequality.

True, you and I have our lives and our differences. We are both human, but we both live differently, that is a lifestyle.

true but does your sexuality dictate your lifestyle?

I doubt it and I feel just among gays alone,to many use their sexuality as an excuse to live this trumped up flamboyant flammeresque psudeo-lifestyle.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough.

[Harry Smith]

I know what I am talking about. I also know what I am saying and stand by what I believe in, traditional marriage.

You stated their was no legal definition for gay marriage-that was a lie. Do you accept that?

[abc983055235235231a]

I am no oppressor nor am I hiding. It is my right to have my beliefs and I beleve God loves us all. However I feel marriage is between a man and a woman for what marriage is, sacred. True, so many have tarnished marriage but that doesn't mean it is all wrong. I honestly could care less what two or more people do, but that doesn't mean I can't have my opinion about it.



I know what I am talking about. I also know what I am saying and stand by what I believe in, traditional marriage.

You totally have the right to your beliefs. It's just that those beliefs happen to be homophobic...

[Lovelife090994]

It was a gay joke, do you have any sense of like irony or sarcasm?



Then why should we treat humans different based on something so trivial such as the piece of meat between their legs

True, you and I have our lives and our differences. We are both human, but we both live differently, that is a lifestyle.

true but does your sexuality dictate your lifestyle?

I doubt it and I feel just among gays alone,to many use their sexuality as an excuse to live this trumped up flamboyant flammeresque psudeo-lifestyle.[/QUOTE]

You stated their was no legal definition for gay marriage-that was a lie. Do you accept that?

There isn't. Homosexual marriages are not mentioned in the US Constituion.

You totally have the right to your beliefs. It's just that those beliefs happen to be homophobic...

If you only knew the bad experiences I've had then you'd know I am not afraid of homosexuals or homosexuality, far from it.

[StoppingTime]

I am no oppressor nor am I hiding. It is my right to have my beliefs and I beleve God loves us all. However I feel marriage is between a man and a woman for what marriage is, sacred. True, so many have tarnished marriage but that doesn't mean it is all wrong. I honestly could care less what two or more people do, but that doesn't mean I can't have my opinion about it.

.

You can believe whatever you want, that's not the issue. The issue is that you hold these opinions as if they're fact when they're certainly not, as I covered in another post. As long as you understand that opinions can be factually incorrect, believe whatever you want as long as you're not telling other people what they should believe, or restricting people to do what they want.

[abc983055235235231a]

true but does your sexuality dictate your lifestyle?

I doubt it and I feel just among gays alone,to many use their sexuality as an excuse to live this trumped up flamboyant flammeresque psudeo-lifestyle.



There isn't. Homosexual marriages are not mentioned in the US Constituion.



If you only knew the bad experiences I've had then you'd know I am not afraid of homosexuals or homosexuality, far from it.[/QUOTE]

I said before, "homophobic" is sort of a misnomer. It doesn't mean "phobia of homosexuals". It has to do with *ATTITUDES ABOUT HOMOSEXUALS*.

[Zenos]

true but does your sexuality dictate your lifestyle?

I doubt it and I feel just among gays alone,to many use their sexuality as an excuse to live this trumped up flamboyant flammeresque psudeo-lifestyle.



There isn't. Homosexual marriages are not mentioned in the US Constituion.



If you only knew the bad experiences I've had then you'd know I am not afraid of homosexuals or homosexuality, far from it.[/QUOTE]



heyyy looks like you tried to make it look like I was saying what you said and you said what I said which was:

"true but does your sexuality dictate your lifestyle?

I doubt it and I feel just among gays alone,to many use their sexuality as an excuse to live this trumped up flamboyant flammeresque psudeo-lifestyle."

nice try trying to flip the script and use my words

[Lovelife090994]

There isn't. Homosexual marriages are not mentioned in the US Constituion.



If you only knew the bad experiences I've had then you'd know I am not afraid of homosexuals or homosexuality, far from it.



heyyy looks like you tried to make it look like I was saying what you said and you said what I said which was:

"true but does your sexuality dictate your lifestyle?

I doubt it and I feel just among gays alone,to many use their sexuality as an excuse to live this trumped up flamboyant flammeresque psudeo-lifestyle."

nice try trying to flip the script and use my words[/QUOTE]

Actually the quote since your quotes were not all in line was a misquote.

There isn't. Homosexual marriages are not mentioned in the US Constituion.



If you only knew the bad experiences I've had then you'd know I am not afraid of homosexuals or homosexuality, far from it.

I said before, "homophobic" is sort of a misnomer. It doesn't mean "phobia of homosexuals". It has to do with *ATTITUDES ABOUT HOMOSEXUALS*.[/QUOTE]

Are you sure? Seems like a slur to me.

You can believe whatever you want, that's not the issue. The issue is that you hold these opinions as if they're fact when they're certainly not, as I covered in another post. As long as you understand that opinions can be factually incorrect, believe whatever you want as long as you're not telling other people what they should believe, or restricting people to do what they want.

With that logic you'd be telling every religious person that they are wrong. No one wantsto hear that. My opinions and mindset are my mindset they are supposed to be different. I'm not telling anyone how to live. You should live as you see fit whether I support it or not. In addition, I feel you think everyone with my opinion as well are hateful when that is not the case. I can't change how I think.

[abc983055235235231a]

heyyy looks like you tried to make it look like I was saying what you said and you said what I said which was:

"true but does your sexuality dictate your lifestyle?

I doubt it and I feel just among gays alone,to many use their sexuality as an excuse to live this trumped up flamboyant flammeresque psudeo-lifestyle."

nice try trying to flip the script and use my words

Actually the quote since your quotes were not all in line was a misquote.



I said before, "homophobic" is sort of a misnomer. It doesn't mean "phobia of homosexuals". It has to do with *ATTITUDES ABOUT HOMOSEXUALS*.
Are you sure?

Seems like a slur to me.



With that logic you'd be telling every religious person that they are wrong. No one wantsto hear that. My opinions and mindset are my mindset they are supposed to be different. I'm not telling anyone how to live. You should live as you see fit whether I support it or not. In addition, I feel you think everyone with my opinion as well are hateful when that is not the case. I can't change how I think.

...did you just say "homophobic" is a slur...??????!??#[email protected]/232/31//??#?23.14$$#??

[Lovelife090994]

...did you just say "homophobic" is a slur...??????!??#[email protected]/232/31//??#?23.14$$#??

It is often used as one.

[abc983055235235231a]

It is often used as one.

...I can use the word "carpet" as a slur. That wouldn't change the fact that "carpet" is a technical term referring to a particular object that sits on the floor.

Similarly, "homophobic" is a technical term which refers to certain attitudes....

[Harry Smith]

It is often used as one.

But it still makes it true-if your not homophobic then I'm not gay

[Lovelife090994]

...I can use the word "carpet" as a slur. That wouldn't change the fact that "carpet" is a technical term referring to a particular object that sits on the floor.

Similarly, "homophobic" is a technical term which refers to certain attitudes....

And it is misused like there. Homophobia is say a person is strikingly terrified of homosexuality, I doubt anyone is scared of homosexuality.

But it still makes it true-if your not homophobic then I'm not gay

No it does not. It is still not right. I could call you a anti-traditionalist but I won't.

[StoppingTime]

With that logic you'd be telling every religious person that they are wrong. No one wantsto hear that. My opinions and mindset are my mindset they are supposed to be different. I'm not telling anyone how to live. You should live as you see fit whether I support it or not. In addition, I feel you think everyone with my opinion as well are hateful when that is not the case.

No it's not...? Religion isn't provable in the same way that proving the earth isn't flat provable (if it is at all), and that's not what this debate is about.

And no I don't think it's 'hateful;' I don't agree with it, but it's not directly hateful.

I can't change how I think.

.........What? Of course you can. You don't have to, but you can

[Lovelife090994]

No it's not...? Religion isn't provable in the same way that proving the earth isn't flat provable (if it is at all), and that's not what this debate is about.

And no I don't think it's 'hateful;' I don't agree with it, but it's not directly hateful.



.........What? Of course you can. You don't have to, but you can

No, I'm serious. I can't. I tried to change almost everything about me to no avail. Plus when it comes to religion I'd rather keep mine as well as my opinions. I won't have someone make me change again.

[Miserabilia]

No, I'm serious. I can't. I tried to change almost everything about me to no avail. Plus when it comes to religion I'd rather keep mine as well as my opinions. I won't have someone make me change again.

Change yourself then.

[Lovelife090994]

Change yourself then.

I just said how I neither can nor want to.

[StoppingTime]

No, I'm serious. I can't. I tried to change almost everything about me to no avail. Plus when it comes to religion I'd rather keep mine as well as my opinions. I won't have someone make me change again.

..But you can? To my knowledge, I've yet to see a psychological condition in which one can physically not change their opinions. I'm not asking you to, but I've also never heard that it is impossible to do so

[abc983055235235231a]

No, I'm serious. I can't. I tried to change almost everything about me to no avail. Plus when it comes to religion I'd rather keep mine as well as my opinions. I won't have someone make me change again.

Well guys, I just tried as hard as I could to change my favourite colour, and it didn't work.

I guess it's impossible for a person to change their favourite colour.

[Lovelife090994]

..But you can? To my knowledge, I've yet to see a psychological condition in which one can physically not change their opinions. I'm not asking you to, but I've also never heard that it is impossible to do so

For me it is. I have issues as we all do. One is criticism. I've had many of the gay community do me wrong, many family members ignore me, and many others hurt me. My life isn't the best. My opinions however I've had before all this happened. And I'm tired of my opinion being shot and my faith being ridiculed. I can't be changed. I'm a ball of confusion now and crying. But this off topic good bye, forgive me.

[sqishy]

Assuming that people are hateful when they're against gay marriage and it all isn't a bad assumption, but assumptions are risky and don' work all the time.

[Miserabilia]

For me it is. I have issues as we all do. One is criticism. I've had many of the gay community do me wrong, many family members ignore me, and many others hurt me. My life isn't the best. My opinions however I've had before all this happened. And I'm tired of my opinion being shot and my faith being ridiculed. I can't be changed. I'm a ball of confusion now and crying. But this off topic good bye, forgive me.

that eslelated quickly
Seriously though, don't cry.
Nobody was trying to insult your opinion.

[Lovelife090994]

that eslelated quickly
Seriously though, don't cry.
Nobody was trying to insult your opinion.

No,no, do not take pity to me. I get like this every time since in real life that is all I deal with.