Hollywood moral fabric, young career pressure, wealth, and misogyny

[Uniquemind]

With all the relatively recent sex abuse scandals from Cosby, all the way to Weinstein, and even some youtube network channel companies big executives being accused of sexual assault or worse what's your take on this?


This behavior isn't new, but there's much more vocality around the issue largely due to social media that all the skeletons are coming out of the closet.

How do you feel in regards to this culture in Hollywood or Silicon Valley, or in similar workplaces you know of, where this dynamic is at play?


Is blame fairly attributed to so-called "enablers" who don't come to a woman's defense who are also subordinate to the head honcho boss abuser?


Thoughts?

[Jinglebottom]

The VT Daily Chronicle :arrow: Ramblings of the Wise

This fits better here I think.

[Uniquemind]

The VT Daily Chronicle :arrow: Ramblings of the Wise

This fits better here I think.

Ah thanks I wasn't sure.

The Weinstein stuff is so new that, it's still on going and I wasn't sure if need be to post articles from other places as news if his section or VT news was a better forum.


Cuz then I don't want posts from twitter from various celebs to be not allowed here either.

[Hollywood]

Hollywood sucks

[mattsmith48]

''When you’re a star they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy'' - The President of the United States

When you are famous and in position of power some people might actually think Trump is right when he said that and believe they can do anything they want without asking. It's not only in Hollywood it can be anyone famous and/or in position of power.

[Uniquemind]

''When you’re a star they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy'' - The President of the United States

When you are famous and in position of power some people might actually think Trump is right when he said that and believe they can do anything they want without asking. It's not only in Hollywood it can be anyone famous and/or in position of power.

The sad thing is what he said isn't wrong.


In this case it's fellow celebrities (stars) getting grabbed by the an abusive producer, and other stars ignoring it or remaining silent.


Specifically a lot of big names that worked or had careers made by Weinstein, were told by female costars of instances of abuse, but the male costars did nothing and now that the issue is public, they're claiming ignorance.

So my last question is still unanswered what do you think of that last scenario? Are they complicit?

[mattsmith48]

The sad thing is what he said isn't wrong.


In this case it's fellow celebrities (stars) getting grabbed by the an abusive producer, and other stars ignoring it or remaining silent.


Specifically a lot of big names that worked or had careers made by Weinstein, were told by female costars of instances of abuse, but the male costars did nothing and now that the issue is public, they're claiming ignorance.

So my last question is still unanswered what do you think of that last scenario? Are they complicit?

I think the reason why some people, both male and female, didn't say or do anything is that they want to keep their job and maybe they thought saying something could have hurt their career.

[Ragle]

The answer is simple: Everyone who knows about a crime and does nothing against it, is inevitably complicit.

[Living For Love]

One thing I don't understand is why these women take some much time to come forward and denounce their alleged rapists. The dates of Bill Cosby's alleged incidents span from 1965 to 2008. Similar situation regarding Weinstein.

[mattsmith48]

One thing I don't understand is why these women take some much time to come forward and denounce their alleged rapists. The dates of Bill Cosby's alleged incidents span from 1965 to 2008. Similar situation regarding Weinstein.

For some women it can be difficult to come out and say they were raped and put accusations, when some one else does come out and say they were raped, other women who were raped by the same person they realize they weren't the only one and it becomes easier for them to come out as well. Same thing happens with the victims of catholic priests.

[Living For Love]

For some women it can be difficult to come out and say they were raped and put accusations, when some one else does come out and say they were raped, other women who were raped by the same person they realize they weren't the only one and it becomes easier for them to come out as well. Same thing happens with the victims of catholic priests.
That explains why alleged rape victims tend to accuse their rapist all at the same time and after one of the women takes the initiative, but it doesn't explain why that particular woman took the initiative in the first place. My question is: why now? What prompted that woman to come forward in the first place?

Also, can you please stop using child rape jokes and slurs when referring to catholic priests? It can be highly offensive for christians, and I'd say for rape victims as well. The way you trivialise rape is nauseating.

[mattsmith48]

That explains why alleged rape victims tend to accuse their rapist all at the same time and after one of the women takes the initiative, but it doesn't explain why that particular woman took the initiative in the first place. My question is: why now? What prompted that woman to come forward in the first place?

It could be for various reason, maybe she got a hint that she's not the only one, she took the time to think about it and decided its the best thing to do, she wan'ts to try to protect potential future victims, she just doesn't give a shit, etc.

Also, can you please stop using child rape jokes and slurs when referring to catholic priests? It can be highly offensive for christians, and I'd say for rape victims as well. The way you trivialise rape is nauseating.

This time it wasn't a joke.

[PlasmaHam]

Power corrupts. Doesn't help that Hollywood is a place of almost no actual morality anymore. The business is basically built on dirty dealings, yet for some reason we praise that as "assertive, smart, clever." Celebs and the Hollywood elite repeatedly sleep around with different partners, seemingly caring more about money and being whores than actual dedication, yet we praise that as "alternative life-styles", and "being strong and independent." Hollywood is has no moral standing in my opinion. For some business fields, especially those of the upper-class like Silicon Valley, I have similar opinions, and the only way to stop the misogyny is to call out their other cases of moral wrong doing as well, instead of praising them.

[Stronk Serb]

Power corrupts. Doesn't help that Hollywood is a place of almost no actual morality anymore. The business is basically built on dirty dealings, yet for some reason we praise that as "assertive, smart, clever." Celebs and the Hollywood elite repeatedly sleep around with different partners, seemingly caring more about money and being whores than actual dedication, yet we praise that as "alternative life-styles", and "being strong and independent." Hollywood is has no moral standing in my opinion. For some business fields, especially those of the upper-class like Silicon Valley, I have similar opinions, and the only way to stop the misogyny is to call out their other cases of moral wrong doing as well, instead of praising them.

True. This decadence was left to thrive for a long time. I mean look at the top faces of Hollywood. Non of them live a normal life. Either a promiscous existence or routine cheating on their spouse. I mean it's only logical to assume that out of that behaviour, sexual abuse and rape are going to come.

[Uniquemind]

True. This decadence was left to thrive for a long time. I mean look at the top faces of Hollywood. Non of them live a normal life. Either a promiscous existence or routine cheating on their spouse. I mean it's only logical to assume that out of that behaviour, sexual abuse and rape are going to come.

Power corrupts. Doesn't help that Hollywood is a place of almost no actual morality anymore. The business is basically built on dirty dealings, yet for some reason we praise that as "assertive, smart, clever." Celebs and the Hollywood elite repeatedly sleep around with different partners, seemingly caring more about money and being whores than actual dedication, yet we praise that as "alternative life-styles", and "being strong and independent." Hollywood is has no moral standing in my opinion. For some business fields, especially those of the upper-class like Silicon Valley, I have similar opinions, and the only way to stop the misogyny is to call out their other cases of moral wrong doing as well, instead of praising them.

I think the reason why some people, both male and female, didn't say or do anything is that they want to keep their job and maybe they thought saying something could have hurt their career.


I don't think it's a liberal or conservative culture thing. Because if it were businesses founded on "right values and the conservative Midwest and south" should free of scandals of the same caliber, but they aren't.

Also those who are more liberal minded, should fall from grace more than they do. And healthy divorces where two parents split off and have successful second families each should also not exist but they do.


Life isn't as simple as the false idealistic dichotomy of leftist/rightist propaganda labels.


But I do believe it has to do with monetary power being in the wrong hands, and I'd like to ask all of us here of how do we change that? How do you create a system of command that is immune to a rich wealthy abuser?

It's conventional specifically more to men too, because while it's true rape and sexual assault is about power, I can't ignore that specifically it's about a specific kind of power, that of sexual access and availability.

Maybe it dates back to early human days during the Stone Age.

But I don't see the phenomena of women being as sexually aggressive on this same scale that men are.


--

On a more educative note for ourselves, where do we go if we find ourselves propositioned by someone who is the gatekeeper of a company who is offering:

1. An internship

2. A good paying job

3. A way out of some hardship your stuck with.

Or

4. If a fellow friend is asking for your moral support publically yet both of you are subordinate to the main accused. Does that scenario warrant breakup of that friendship if you fail to meet their needs for moral or public support?


The stories that are coming out of the floodgate echo familiarity amongst my friends (usually older friends) and I've eluded to some of my own experiences in the past that were close calls, but still I was able to escape those situations in time.

[mattsmith48]

Power corrupts. Doesn't help that Hollywood is a place of almost no actual morality anymore. The business is basically built on dirty dealings, yet for some reason we praise that as "assertive, smart, clever." Celebs and the Hollywood elite repeatedly sleep around with different partners, seemingly caring more about money and being whores than actual dedication, yet we praise that as "alternative life-styles", and "being strong and independent." Hollywood is has no moral standing in my opinion. For some business fields, especially those of the upper-class like Silicon Valley, I have similar opinions, and the only way to stop the misogyny is to call out their other cases of moral wrong doing as well, instead of praising them.

True. This decadence was left to thrive for a long time. I mean look at the top faces of Hollywood. Non of them live a normal life. Either a promiscous existence or routine cheating on their spouse. I mean it's only logical to assume that out of that behaviour, sexual abuse and rape are going to come.

Generalizing on a group of people is never a good thing. A lot of Hollywood celebrities are good people. There is nothing wrong with having sex with multiple people as long it is consensual from both sides. Sure if you are in a relationship it is better to break up with your partner before having sex with someone else, but some people don't want the divorce because of the kids or the money. The sexual abuse and raping as nothing to do with the Hollywood life style. During the off season in the NFL we can't spend two weeks without having a case of domestic violence, I mention earlier the religious leaders of a certain western religion molesting kids and how often do we ear about an over religious conservative getting caught cheating on his wife often with another men?

[ShineintheDark]

Power corrupts. Doesn't help that Hollywood is a place of almost no actual morality anymore. The business is basically built on dirty dealings, yet for some reason we praise that as "assertive, smart, clever."

That's business for you. It's a simple fact that you can;t have a successful industry without some sort of level of dirty dealing: people are just naturally selfish and will work towards, their self interests, no matter the era and no matter the prevailing political norms of the time. As for praising it, well I don't think anyone would publicly call dirty dealings and cheating as 'assertive, smart, clever.' When sportspeople cheat, we punish them. When businesses scam, we penalise them.


Celebs and the Hollywood elite repeatedly sleep around with different partners, seemingly caring more about money and being whores than actual dedication, yet we praise that as "alternative life-styles", and "being strong and independent."

Once again, promiscuity and sexual immorality is not in any way a new phenomenon. Since the dawn of time, when humanity first experienced sex, they've been lying and cheating their way into getting it. Whether it's the ancient kings and their concubines, media execs with their mistresses, even hedonistic cults, people of great power will always use it for personal gain, whether financial or sexual. Hell, it's not even constrained to famous people. Normal men and women have affairs every day and even move onto marrying the person they had an affair with. Look at how Trump's first marriage fell apart and his subsequent marriage to Marla Maples.

[Uniquemind]

That's business for you. It's a simple fact that you can;t have a successful industry without some sort of level of dirty dealing: people are just naturally selfish and will work towards, their self interests, no matter the era and no matter the prevailing political norms of the time. As for praising it, well I don't think anyone would publicly call dirty dealings and cheating as 'assertive, smart, clever.' When sportspeople cheat, we punish them. When businesses scam, we penalise them.



Once again, promiscuity and sexual immorality is not in any way a new phenomenon. Since the dawn of time, when humanity first experienced sex, they've been lying and cheating their way into getting it. Whether it's the ancient kings and their concubines, media execs with their mistresses, even hedonistic cults, people of great power will always use it for personal gain, whether financial or sexual. Hell, it's not even constrained to famous people. Normal men and women have affairs every day and even move onto marrying the person they had an affair with. Look at how Trump's first marriage fell apart and his subsequent marriage to Marla Maples.



So the next question becomes are we resigned to it?

Because obviously the problem is systemic, and can't seem to be corrected despite the ideal scenario of a world where we stomp these behaviors out.

And on smaller levels some people rationalize this as okay, and a "part of life", part of the trade-offs life gives us. Because it seems that if you continue to defend the ideal, that ultimately it just ends up in hypocrisy anyway.

[Stronk Serb]

Generalizing on a group of people is never a good thing. A lot of Hollywood celebrities are good people. There is nothing wrong with having sex with multiple people as long it is consensual from both sides. Sure if you are in a relationship it is better to break up with your partner before having sex with someone else, but some people don't want the divorce because of the kids or the money. The sexual abuse and raping as nothing to do with the Hollywood life style. During the off season in the NFL we can't spend two weeks without having a case of domestic violence, I mention earlier the religious leaders of a certain western religion molesting kids and how often do we ear about an over religious conservative getting caught cheating on his wife often with another men?

>Generalizing is bad if done against things I like
>Generalizes on Catholicism and and conservativism

The stereotypical Hollywood lifestyle has a lot to do with things that occur. Behaving like you are the king of the world can lead you to do things like this and get away with it because of your fame etc. Also I cannot believe you tried to justify cheating in a relationship or marriage. It's a horrible thing yet you tried to justify it.

[mattsmith48]

>Generalizing is bad if done against things I like
>Generalizes on Catholicism and and conservativism

The stereotypical Hollywood lifestyle has a lot to do with things that occur. Behaving like you are the king of the world can lead you to do things like this and get away with it because of your fame etc. Also I cannot believe you tried to justify cheating in a relationship or marriage. It's a horrible thing yet you tried to justify it.

I am not generalizing, I am just saying they are people in other groups too.

How am I justifying cheating?

[PlasmaHam]

As for praising it, well I don't think anyone would publicly call dirty dealings and cheating as 'assertive, smart, clever.' When sportspeople cheat, we punish them. When businesses scam, we penalise them.
That's cute. Have fun with your idealistic world, but we are dealing with the real one.
Once again, promiscuity and sexual immorality is not in any way a new phenomenon. Since the dawn of time, when humanity first experienced sex, they've been lying and cheating their way into getting it. Whether it's the ancient kings and their concubines, media execs with their mistresses, even hedonistic cults, people of great power will always use it for personal gain, whether financial or sexual. Hell, it's not even constrained to famous people. Normal men and women have affairs every day and even move onto marrying the person they had an affair with. Look at how Trump's first marriage fell apart and his subsequent marriage to Marla Maples.So? That doesn't mean it is good, nor something that should be accepted by the general public. If you look back in history, even though the rich and powerful were adulterous, the public rarely praised that sorta thing, especially in Western Culture.

How am I justifying cheating?
You are the one who said marriage should be abolished because humans are polygamous creatures. That alone seem like plenty of justification for cheating for me.

[mattsmith48]

You are the one who said marriage should be abolished because humans are polygamous creatures. That alone seem like plenty of justification for cheating for me.

No I said marriage as become pointless in today's life other than for financial reasons.

[Uniquemind]

That's cute. Have fun with your idealistic world, but we are dealing with the real one.
So? That doesn't mean it is good, nor something that should be accepted by the general public. If you look back in history, even though the rich and powerful were adulterous, the public rarely praised that sorta thing, especially in Western Culture.


You are the one who said marriage should be abolished because humans are polygamous creatures. That alone seem like plenty of justification for cheating for me.


Hmm idk, many who have been the proverbial fly on the wall have heard younger and older males largely praising fellow males for their conquests with various girls they get with.

There certainly is truth to "locker room" talk as someone famous once said...

[ShineintheDark]

That's cute. Have fun with your idealistic world, but we are dealing with the real one.

Hey I said 'publicly'. When these things go public they have no choice but to be punished for their actions. The issue is not us doing nothing when it becomes public, it's just how well these officials are good at covering their dirty dealings and paying people off to keep it that way.

So? That doesn't mean it is good, nor something that should be accepted by the general public. If you look back in history, even though the rich and powerful were adulterous, the public rarely praised that sorta thing, especially in Western Culture.


My point was never t say it was good, more just to counter your idea that Hollywood has entered a new world of unrivaled and unprecedented degeneracy.

[Uniquemind]

Hey I said 'publicly'. When these things go public they have no choice but to be punished for their actions. The issue is not us doing nothing when it becomes public, it's just how well these officials are good at covering their dirty dealings and paying people off to keep it that way.


My point was never t say it was good, more just to counter your idea that Hollywood has entered a new world of unrivaled and unprecedented degeneracy.

And to the first response are we resigned to it? To having no progress other than this.