the EU

[tovaris]

The institution so lacking in democracy that if it was to try and enter itself it would not sucseed.
The institutes of the EU as said are wery undemocratic... For example the EU Comision (the exucative body) has all tze power while the people woted parlament in realety acts more as an advisory body...

The newly spread neolibelarism and the dictate od the „big states” has caused the thaught of exiting the EU across europe... In UK say the two opsosing sides (conservative and the communists) found one thaught to agre on „to exit the eu”.

Many leftist parties also are talking about the reformation of the institutions of the EU, primarely for the democratization of said institution...

What are your opinions on the mather?

it's a neoliberal social experiment

[Harry Smith]

The EU isn't undemocratic-it has an elected parliament and members of the leading positions are selected from all countries such as Spain, Britain and Germany. The European council is made of all the head of state's which seems fair and aids as a balancing aid for the European commission

The EU brings jobs, trade and security for Europe

[phuckphace]

it's a neoliberal social experiment that was overwhelmingly successful for the banksters and finance barons and a disaster for the people of the member states. yes let's surrender our political and economic sovereignty in favor of letting a few grasping neoliberals in a far away ivory tower dictate how our own countries should be run - sounds about as appealing as fellating a branding iron. it's no wonder that nationalist parties in many of the member states are increasing in popularity, I guess the whole mass immigration thing might have possibly had some negative drawbacks?

Timo Soini from Finland's True Finns party said it best here: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748703864204576310851503980120

[Harry Smith]

i, I guess the whole mass immigration thing might have possibly had some negative drawbacks?



The mass immigration debate is actually extremely over-exaggerated in Britain. People always make it out as if they come over here and pillage our land

[phuckphace]

The mass immigration debate is actually extremely over-exaggerated in Britain. People always make it out as if they come over here and pillage our land

they do

[tovaris]

The EU isn't undemocratic-it has an elected parliament and members of the leading positions are selected from all countries such as Spain, Britain and Germany. The European council is made of all the head of state's which seems fair and aids as a balancing aid for the European commission

The EU brings jobs, trade and security for Europe

as stated in the opening statement, if the EU was attempring to enter the EU it would not get in.

[Harry Smith]

as stated in the opening statement, if the EU was attempring to enter the EU it would not get in.

Ok- I really don't understand the hypocritical nature of the whole system. Countries complain that the EU is bringing in countries that shouldn't be there e.g Greece and the complain when they don't let other countries in. Like any other suprnational group e.g NATO UN there's always a very long waiting process

[Miserabilia]

It's not as bad as people make it out to be I.M.O.

[tovaris]

Ok- I really don't understand the hypocritical nature of the whole system. Countries complain that the EU is bringing in countries that shouldn't be there e.g Greece and the complain when they don't let other countries in. Like any other suprnational group e.g NATO UN there's always a very long waiting process

what you hawe written has nothing to do with my post

[Harry Smith]

what you hawe written has nothing to do with my post

Yes it does-you complained about the EU not letting members in. I pointed out why that is so...

[tovaris]

Yes it does-you complained about the EU not letting members in. I pointed out why that is so...

no i stated that if the eu was to be judged by the standards it demandes from the states who enter the EU would not get in

[Harry Smith]

no i stated that if the eu was to be judged by the standards it demandes from the states who enter the EU would not get in

Okay, that's a useless rhetoric device used by euro-skeptics. Your speaking in poetry and just stating stupid statements that have no relevance to the political nature of the EU. Do you want them to hand out membership at the base stop outside the UN building?

[tovaris]

Okay, that's a useless rhetoric device used by euro-skeptics. Your speaking in poetry and just stating stupid statements that have no relevance to the political nature of the EU. Do you want them to hand out membership at the base stop outside the UN building?

No im not saing its hard to get in. Its actuly wery easy to get in. But the EU is so darn undemocratic it does not meat the standards of the Lisbon contract.
You realy should have read the opening statement!
The eu parlament, the only body of the institution directly voted in by the people, has no real power.

On the mather how easy it is to get in i mean look the UK got in... and look at them, and we also have the genocide commiting border ignoring Croatia, the forcefuly taikunisied Slovenja....

[Vlerchan]

I think the EU needs to be reformed in such a way that it becomes less about nation-states each competing to dismantle their welfare states and weaken their labour the fastest in a bid to please transnational capital and more about solidarity between the individual nation-states whilst still accepting their rights to operate as such. In the long-run I'm for embracing a new European-identity and further-integration in the name of a single federal European state.

The ECB can preferably go die in a hole somewhere whilst this is all happening. It is the very definition of 'grasping neo-liberals in an ivory tower.'

[Zenos]

The mass immigration debate is actually extremely over-exaggerated in Britain. People always make it out as if they come over here and pillage our land

So taking jobs from native citizens and from those who are there legally,is not pillaging your land?

Yup bet if those Crusaders way back when had know this was going to be the result they'd never have taken up arms to keep Europe free!

[Harry Smith]

So taking jobs from native citizens and from those who are there legally,is not pillaging your land?

Yup bet if those Crusaders way back when had know this was going to be the result they'd never have taken up arms to keep Europe free!

People from the EU are here legally... everyone in the EU has a right to move around and stay in each country you know. They're not taking our jobs-they're doing the jobs that the Brits don't want to do and they're also paying more in taxes than they take out in Benefits. Our country would fall apart without immigrants

You quite clearly have no idea about the EU

[Zenos]

People from the EU are here legally... everyone in the EU has a right to move around and stay in each country you know. They're not taking our jobs-they're doing the jobs that the Brits don't want to do and they're also paying more in taxes than they take out in Benefits. Our country would fall apart without immigrants

You quite clearly have no idea about the EU

That's not what i'm talking about i'm talking about illegal immigrants form outside the EU

[Harry Smith]

That's not what i'm talking about i'm talking about illegal immigrants form outside the EU

Which they're an extremely low amount of. Any that do come over here are actually abused themselves due to extremely low wages and terrible living conditions. That's one benefit of being an island

[Capto]

Meanwhile on the continent.

[tovaris]

That's not what i'm talking about i'm talking about illegal immigrants form outside the EU

That has nothing to do with the eu than.

[tovaris]

Meanwhile on the continent.

There are stil exteemly few ilegal imigrants... most vome by boats to italy... and many dont survive the trip there

[sweet_girl24au]

The eu parlament, the only body of the institution directly voted in by the people, has no real power.

Except it can ban battery cage eggs and double the price for a dozen across the entire continent.

And the elected representatives who work in Brussels are 5 levels of government removed from the people who vote them in.

Ultimately the EU is a massive bureaucracy staffed by lifetime bureaucrats who spend their days attending meetings, summits, black tie dinner junkets with no job security concerns. Great work if you can get it, and good comfort for the millions of unemployed in Europe

[Harry Smith]

Except it can ban battery cage eggs and double the price for a dozen across the entire continent.

And the elected representatives who work in Brussels are 5 levels of government removed from the people who vote them in.

Ultimately the EU is a massive bureaucracy staffed by lifetime bureaucrats who spend their days attending meetings, summits, black tie dinner junkets with no job security concerns. Great work if you can get it, and good comfort for the millions of unemployed in Europe

Everybody always attacks bureaucrats because it's the new buzzword for the right- I don't see people complaining when these bureaucrats are helping pass laws that improve trade and help raise our living standards. People complain about the 'elite' in the EU but when you go into a hospital you want the elite doctors right?

[britishboy]

Except it can ban battery cage eggs and double the price for a dozen across the entire continent.

And the elected representatives who work in Brussels are 5 levels of government removed from the people who vote them in.

Ultimately the EU is a massive bureaucracy staffed by lifetime bureaucrats who spend their days attending meetings, summits, black tie dinner junkets with no job security concerns. Great work if you can get it, and good comfort for the millions of unemployed in Europe

While the cost of eggs is hardly a subject I feel passionate about and the UK Government would have banned battery farms anyway, it annoys me that decisions about Britian are being made for Britian.

[Harry Smith]

While the cost of eggs is hardly a subject I feel passionate about and the UK Government would have banned battery farms anyway, it annoys me that decisions about Britian are being made for Britian.

I assume you support Welsh and Cornish independence then? The government doesn't only cater to the issues that you care about-it's about representing everyone and ensuring that high standards are meet throughout Europe-something that the battery eggs example does.

Britain hasn't been making it's own decisions since 1956

[phuckphace]

Everybody always attacks bureaucrats because it's the new buzzword for the right- I don't see people complaining when these bureaucrats are helping pass laws that improve trade and help raise our living standards.

er, there are quite a few people who object to free trade agreements, are you not familiar with the Eurosceptic parties?

People complain about the 'elite' in the EU but when you go into a hospital you want the elite doctors right?

I don't think that word means what you think it means. it refers to the wealthy ivory tower dwellers who use their money and political connections to game the system in their own favor, at the expense of the common man.

[sweet_girl24au]

Everybody always attacks bureaucrats because it's the new buzzword for the right- I don't see people complaining when these bureaucrats are helping pass laws that improve trade and help raise our living standards. People complain about the 'elite' in the EU but when you go into a hospital you want the elite doctors right?

Doctors are actually working, treating people, providing a service.

[britishboy]

Britain hasn't been making it's own decisions

That's the problem! OMG are you blind? Is that actually your pro EU argument?

[tovaris]

Except it can ban battery cage eggs and double the price for a dozen across the entire continent.

And the elected representatives who work in Brussels are 5 levels of government removed from the people who vote them in.

Ultimately the EU is a massive bureaucracy staffed by lifetime bureaucrats who spend their days attending meetings, summits, black tie dinner junkets with no job security concerns. Great work if you can get it, and good comfort for the millions of unemployed in Europe

who enforces thes laws, and "tells" countries to do so? Who puts a law into the parlaments proces?

[Harry Smith]

That's the problem! OMG are you blind? Is that actually your pro EU argument?

Nice editing there-I said since 1956. I'll also ask you again if you support Cornish independence? And OMG no-I'm not blind Britain hasn't been making it's own decisions since 1956

If you knew your own countries history you'd know that was when the Suez Crisis happened-this was 20 years before Britain joined the EU. As I say above our foreign and economic policy has been dicated by America since then-it's a choice of being a powerful member of the EU or being a small island that licks America's boots. See Iraq war.

EU brings trade, jobs and security for us. The alternative would be a poorer weaker Britain. Which one sounds better?

[Vlerchan]

er, there are quite a few people who object to free trade agreements [...]
I'm down with the free-trade agreements until we started extending them to the cheap-labor states in Eastern-Europe. It was from this that we ended up with: "nation-states each competing to dismantle their welfare states and weaken their labour the fastest in a bid to please transnational capital". Merkel implying yesterday that she was going to either a) force us to increase our favorable corporation tax rate or b) bring-about an EU-wide reduction in corporation tax in order to compete with us (Ireland) means that it is probably only going to get worse.

[phuckphace]

I'm down with the free-trade agreements until we started extending them to the cheap-labor states in Eastern-Europe. It was from this that we ended up with: "nation-states each competing to dismantle their welfare states and weaken their labour the fastest in a bid to please transnational capital".

not surprising, access to cheap labor is why free trade exists to begin with. Business was salivating over the prospect of Polish migrants willing to work for €1/hr and it was always about making their wet dreams come true.

Merkel implying yesterday that she was going to either a) force us to increase our favorable corporation tax rate or b) bring-about an EU-wide reduction in corporation tax in order to compete with us (Ireland) means that it is probably only going to get worse.

I can only imagine that seeing Merkel getting reelected probably felt like we did in 2004 when we found out we'd be getting another round of Bush