Opinions please on our culture?

[Uniquemind]

I am writing a persuasive or at least a critical thinking essay and I want to ask what is your opinion on the argument?

Is seduction-dating culture really the foundation of rape culture or is rape culture something different and seduction culture more of it's own thing in a moral grey area that's romanticized in novels and movies? Does seduction culture incorporate enough consent in it?

Based on the response I get from everyone I might make tweaks to my thesis statement.

Please respond thanks!

[ClaraWho]

Rape culture is something extreme feminists or survivors seem to shout about more than something most of us ever witness any evidence to support.

It's also so loose weave of a clear definition as to be redundant, perhaps you could clarify your interpretation for us?

~ Clara

[StoppingTom]

Rape culture in itself seems to have numerous definitions, some viable, some ridiculous.

However, "seduction dating" as you put it (though I personally don't see a lot of it nowadays) still requires consent between both parties, so I think it's a separate entity from "rape culture".

[PlasmaHam]

Seduction still requires consent from both sides, rape does not. While seduction is not right, it also takes a morally weak person typically to consent to it. You let yourself get in a situation of seduction, and you have full freedom to get out of it if you really pleased

I'm also not a supporter of the "rape culture" that is sweeping America. I feel that it encourages falsified rape claims while undermining actual rapes.

[Tesserax]

I think yes, but particularly regarding clothing and how it's becoming increasingly revealing. The issue lies in the fact that female clothing is ultimately become far more suggestive as we progress through this modern era, and while I don't ever blame the women for it, you cannot deny that it paints them as a more likely target for rape.

When I say this, I'm talking about general sexual harassment and pressured sex, because the alphas who expect only the word "yes" will more often than not select promiscuously dressed women as their "prey" so to speak, and thus increases the probability of sexual harassment/coercion.

However, actual rape is a different story; by actual rape I mean targeted, premeditated rape. Whether it be completely planned, or a psychopath simply feeling the need, the itch to do so, this kind will I'm fairly certain be more related to a specific kind of person or look. Generally this kind of bonkers rapist will probably have had something in the past which connects them deeply with a specific outfit, hair colour, or whatever, or simply have a particular preference, and even if not, there is little specified choosing.

The point I'm trying to get across is, that if a girl is a party animal, who wants to go to large social events and mingle/socialize with a lot of people, it is probably more likely that the clothing which stems from the seduction culture we have will increase the chances of her getting raped, as opposed to a girl who dresses in baggy clothes or looks like she's killed a man. However, with serial rapists, no, there is no correlation whatsoever in my opinion to the seduction culture

[Uniquemind]

All points heard well.

This is still a rough draft but the issue mainly stems from a very broad, and as Clara said, a very loose weave, argument. It seems that's all society is able to derive are generalities and that we are working towards specifics on what contributes or crosses the line directly or indirectly (aka: contributes) into "rape culture".

From various articles, social commentary, and research, some personal experiences or close sources as well, it does seem that our dating culture pressed onto males is that for them to have eventual success (however you define the end goal: sex, an actual relationship) they have to make the first move, and in some cultures it almost glorifies it as a part of "masculine" culture.

This leads a subset of males to overtly, and publicly hit on girls, to the point where girls feel harassed, or nervous to the point where they don't know how to handle the advances.

It seems that at that juncture it forks into the harassment issue we see today or some form of consent is given and relationship is formed.

On that latter point though, I know many cases where the girl just "goes with the flow" and might not truly understand her own power yet nor is self-aware enough to recognize what they want in a guy yet and just go through the motions of what society expects a "good girlfriend" to do.

However as time goes on that girl becomes self-aware and feels violated or taken advantage of in some way, yet society acknowledges "consent" that she started the relationship.

So my aim is to go retroactively back and see if there's a social error here in where we say "oh she consented".

To a more minor degree I think this applies to guys as well, but I have encountered or heard about more of these scenarios among girls, specifically the non-confrontational type of personality too.



Now I know the extreme branches of feminism, I am not going there, I certainly have seen some videos of women literally thinking a postman is stalking her and is part of "male oppression" because he keeps delivering packages to her work. (I think it's a somewhat viral youtube video).


What I am trying to do is find that grain of truth of the feminist argument, and try to narrow and specify some cultural problems that we are seeing today, and to question if both guys and girls are doing a good enough job internalizing what "consent" means per action they are asked, and if somehow the forwardness of our dating culture is a foundation that we over exaggerate in media, giving people a false internal sense of when to jump on a romantic opportunity offered vs refusing it.

How much of what you are attracted to was shaped by your true internal compass, vs what you were raised around and does that make you more or less vulnerable to get hurt and once knowing those pitfalls, how do you compensate individually and how do we compensate as a society? (tl;dr version)

[ClaraWho]

So if I'm understanding correctly, then you mean something along the lines of 'This doesn't feel right to me, but society says it is'?

This brings to mind the question of how many girls are actually bisexual, but terrified of it due to soceital pressures. Therefore they end up with a guy rather than their best female friend, who they basically have a pseudo-relationship with anyway.

One would presume the only compensation for not allowing oneself to be used as a sexual object, or to fall into the subserviant, submissive trap - would be self-esteem. If we raise self-esteem then nobody is feeling insecure about fitting in, they feel more free to express their true selves, to not look for societal guidance from those whom are most aggressive with their views.

And that could start at the level of primary education. Interesting topic,

~ Clara

[Cadanance00]

I see both and they're not the same. To me seduction dating has to do with attraction, sex and sexuality. Rape culture is about power and egoism. I'm sure there are various mixtures of the two, but I understand "seduction dating".

I never understood rape. That is, I can't get into the mind of a rapist and understand what he gets out of it except to force someone else to do something for his own pleasure, or at least force himself on someone else. It's close to bullying. (Kinda like Trump.)

But I'm sure the two are different.

[jamie_n5]

I don't think that you can really associate seduction with rape. To me seduction is the act or game if you will to try get someone to have sex with you consensually.
The way I see rape is a violent forced sexual act to an unwilling second person. There is nothing but brutality and harm in rape.

[Uniquemind]

I see both and they're not the same. To me seduction dating has to do with attraction, sex and sexuality. Rape culture is about power and egoism. I'm sure there are various mixtures of the two, but I understand "seduction dating".

I never understood rape. That is, I can't get into the mind of a rapist and understand what he gets out of it except to force someone else to do something for his own pleasure, or at least force himself on someone else. It's close to bullying. (Kinda like Trump.)

But I'm sure the two are different.

I don't think that you can really associate seduction with rape. To me seduction is the act or game if you will to try get someone to have sex with you consensually.
The way I see rape is a violent forced sexual act to an unwilling second person. There is nothing but brutality and harm in rape.

So if I'm understanding correctly, then you mean something along the lines of 'This doesn't feel right to me, but society says it is'?

This brings to mind the question of how many girls are actually bisexual, but terrified of it due to soceital pressures. Therefore they end up with a guy rather than their best female friend, who they basically have a pseudo-relationship with anyway.

One would presume the only compensation for not allowing oneself to be used as a sexual object, or to fall into the subserviant, submissive trap - would be self-esteem. If we raise self-esteem then nobody is feeling insecure about fitting in, they feel more free to express their true selves, to not look for societal guidance from those whom are most aggressive with their views.

And that could start at the level of primary education. Interesting topic,

~ Clara

Well that depends, some could argue that the pretext of trickery involved "seduction culture" means that all sexual acts a girl does under that pretext, is rape, regardless if she consented or not and then therefore is linked to "rape culture".

Again it's probably not provable in court, but it begs the philosophical question and therefore the discussion.


In regards to Clara's point, that's not directly what I was getting at, but yes those are variables in this dynamic we see in sociology/psychology that needs to be considered here. A lot of it probably does have to do with personal attributes like self-esteem, and a lot of this is psycho-social sexual developmentally influenced.

I hypothesize that some individuals just come out of the womb, more polarized to certain sexual orientations than others, and from there that's why we see this giant spectrum between people who swear they KNOW what orientation they were since Pre-school or kindergarten age, they just did not know society's word for those trends of feelings VERSUS those who are unsure of what sexual orientation they are and rely on developmental experiences as they grow to self-identify into society's categories.


I believe both camps exist, and how they impact dating/sex/seduction/rape culture is a gonna be a very very large study topic.

I suspect a big professional group of academic-researchers are going to have to study this to get my Original Post answered.

But for now I just wanted everyone's thoughts.

Hopefully I clarified, and I am sorry for the long delay in responding.

(I am the original poster and this is an official bump to revive this thread)


P.S. Maybe I should go into academic research on this topic myself once I get into college...