Why The Death Penalty Needs To Go

[Just JT]

What makes you any better than them though? There is a story to every murder, and taking away someone's humanity is wrong on a lot of levels. There is a place where they did this too, it's called Auschwitz. How are public executions that are planned any better than the "acts of terrorism" you mention, aren't they the same? Do we want to lower ourselves to their level?

Again, your speaking of killing human beings, and acts of terrorism. I'm not, immtalking about an animal that kills and rapes human

https://news.vice.com/article/australian-state-may-force-convicted-pedophiles-to-undergo-chemical-castration Just JT I think you asked something like this

Nope, that would keep the pedophiles alive. That's not what I'm interested in at all. Besides rape has nothing to do with sex

Posts merged. ~Amethyst Rose

[Leprous]

Again, your speaking of killing human beings, and acts of terrorism. I'm not, immtalking about an animal that kills and rapes human



I don't think you understand me here, because you're contradicting yourself quite often. You're saying the terrorists are human? That wouldn't make sense since you stated murderers aren't human. Also, calling them animals and treating them live animals make us animals too, how are we different if we do that?

[Stronk Serb]

It's technically already a thing since some prisons have their inmates doing dirt cheap manufacturing work for 'enrichment' whiilst the prisons take the wages as a fee for the work. You physically can't make the prisoners work as slaves because slavery is banned by the UN so you'd have top find a fairer alternative.

Or just call the sentence "x years of hard labor"

You're mixing it up with the Vatican ;p

Well, Mohhamad did mary and sleep with a nine year-old, and Pakistan plans or has already lowere their age of consent to like 9 or 10.

[mattsmith48]

No, in my world, in my opinion, someone who does these things, no, there not human. Not sure what to call them, but not human

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts, and the facts are someone who commits a crime no matter how cruel is that crime does not become less human because of what he did.

Well, Mohhamad did mary and sleep with a nine year-old, and Pakistan plans or has already lowere their age of consent to like 9 or 10.

I know that, it was a joke.

[randall]

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts, and the facts are someone who commits a crime no matter how cruel is that crime does not become less human because of what he did.

how tolerant of you. even a serial pedophilic rapist is "human," when one looks at the "facts" in this manner. thus the criminal deserves compassion and leeway, despite the crimes he's committed, simply because he is alive!

the fact is that someone who commits a crime is not just human, but a criminal human, and they deserve everything they've got coming to them.

I know that, it was a joke.

a pretty terrible one. slide me one verse in the bible that is as explicit as any of the following passages taken from islam's hadith.

"Narrated Hisham’s father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married ‘Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old."

Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 63, Number 182:
Narrated Abu Usaid

"We went out with the Prophet to a garden called Ash-Shaut till we reached two walls between which we sat down. The Prophet said, "Sit here," and went in (the garden). The Jauniyya (a lady from Bani Jaun) had been brought and lodged in a house in a date-palm garden in the home of Umaima bint An-Nu'man bin Sharahil, [b]and her wet nurse was with her. When the Prophet entered upon her, he said to her, "Give me yourself (in marriage) as a gift." She said, "Can a princess give herself in marriage to an ordinary man?" The Prophet raised his hand to pat her so that she might become tranquil. She said, "I seek refuge with Allah from you." He said, "You have sought refuge with One Who gives refuge. Then the Prophet came out to us and said, "O Abu Usaid! Give her two white linen dresses to wear and let her go back to her family." Narrated Sahl and Abu Usaid: The Prophet married Umaima bint Sharahil, and when she was brought to him, he stretched his hand towards her. It seemed that she disliked that, whereupon the Prophet ordered Abu Usaid to prepare her and to provide her with two white linen dresses. (See Hadith No. 541)."

"‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She too hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have shared in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him." [Sahih Muslim 2:3309, p.715-716]

[mattsmith48]

how tolerant of you. even a serial pedophilic rapist is "human," when one looks at the "facts" in this manner. thus the criminal deserves compassion and leeway, despite the crimes he's committed, simply because he is alive!

the fact is that someone who commits a crime is not just human, but a criminal human, and they deserve everything they've got coming to them.

Molesting children is wrong and we have consequences for it, like for any other crimes, but we still have to remind our self that whatever the crime, that person is still human and should be treated like one.

a pretty terrible one. slide me one verse in the bible that is as explicit as any of the following passages taken from islam's hadith.


I was referring to more current and non-fictional events, like the Catholic church running a child sex ring.

[randall]

Molesting children is wrong and we have consequences for it, like for any other crimes, but we still have to remind our self that whatever the crime, that person is still human and should be treated like one.

some humans deserve to die. id say those who exploit children sexually are chief among those in need of a bullet.


I was referring to more current and non-fictional events, like the Catholic church running a child sex ring.

the funny thing about your deflection is you ignore the fact that those passages are talking about islam's prophet; the man the modern muslim is supposed to emulate. you also ignore the fact that the passages come from the haddith, one of islam's primary sources of morality.

you also ignore the fact that there is a child sex slave trade going on in the middle east thanks to Islam as well.

it's nice to know that you can talk truthfully about the horrors of molestation in one sentence, and then joke about children being molested by corrupted priests without batting an eye.

the modern catholic church is shit im not going to defend their depravity. but islam, written into its very foundation, sanctions pedophilia. why do you defend that?

[mattsmith48]

some humans deserve to die. id say those who exploit children sexually are chief among those in need of a bullet.

No they don't, they deserve be sent to prison for an appropriate and reasonable amount of time and after they come out they will be free to get back to live a normal and honest life with some precautionary measures to prevent them to do it again.

the funny thing about your deflection is you ignore the fact that those passages are talking about islam's prophet; the man the modern muslim is supposed to emulate. you also ignore the fact that the passages come from the haddith, one of islam's primary sources of morality.

you also ignore the fact that there is a child sex slave trade going on in the middle east thanks to Islam as well.

it's nice to know that you can talk truthfully about the horrors of molestation in one sentence, and then joke about children being molested by corrupted priests without batting an eye.

the modern catholic church is shit im not going to defend their depravity. but islam, written into its very foundation, sanctions pedophilia. why do you defend that?

I'm not ignoring it, I just don't care. It was just a joke get over it.

[randall]

No they don't, they deserve be sent to prison

see, that is only your opinion, and it truly is a noble one!

for an appropriate and reasonable amount of time

so a child molester who murdered his eight year old victim and dumped him in a ditch in the middle of nowhere gets to go sit in a nice maximum security prison at the expense of law abiding taxpayers because.....

why?

and after they come out they will be free to get back to live a normal and honest life

how could anyone go back to living a "normal and honest life" after slaughtering four innocents with a truck (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-sweden-attack-suspect-detention-idUSKBN17D0UD)?

or after murdering 77 people? (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/20/anders-behring-breiviks-human-rights-violated-in-prison-norway-court-rules)

not all criminal humans are the same, there is no universal standard to work off of. they don't all deserve life and happiness, after the things they've done and the pain they've inflicted on others.

with some precautionary measures to prevent them to do it again.

awh that sounds nice. too bad your "precautionary measures" aren't defined and you can't guarantee they won't act in a criminal manner again because human nature is not so easily predictable.

oh yeah and your "precautionary measures" will cost law abiding citizens more resources, as it'll likely involve said criminals checking in with officers of the state.

I'm not ignoring it, I just don't care. It was just a joke get over it.

nah. you should try have some class.

and i think it's hilarious you care about the "current and non-fictional events, like the Catholic church running a child sex ring," but you don't care about the very active sex slave/child slave trade that is happening in the middle east right now. christian women and children are being sold at markets in the middle east as we speak and you ignore it because you don't care.

how noble of you, mattsmith.

[Just JT]

I don't think you understand me here, because you're contradicting yourself quite often. You're saying the terrorists are human? That wouldn't make sense since you stated murderers aren't human. Also, calling them animals and treating them live animals make us animals too, how are we different if we do that?

I may have mis typed, but no, I would not consider terrorist human at all.

[mattsmith48]

so a child molester who murdered his eight year old victim and dumped him in a ditch in the middle of nowhere gets to go sit in a nice maximum security prison at the expense of law abiding taxpayers because.....

why?

Because he committed a crime and they are consequences for it, but if we kill him for his crimes, it makes us as bad as him. Every human being has a right to live and its not because they did something horrible they should lose that right.

how could anyone go back to living a "normal and honest life" after slaughtering four innocents with a truck (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-sweden-attack-suspect-detention-idUSKBN17D0UD)?

or after murdering 77 people? (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/20/anders-behring-breiviks-human-rights-violated-in-prison-norway-court-rules)

not all criminal humans are the same, there is no universal standard to work off of. they don't all deserve life and happiness, after the things they've done and the pain they've inflicted on others.

I got to admit its probably easier to get back to a normal life after coming out of prison for killing four people than 77, but it doesn't change the fact that when they get out its because they payed their debt to society and will be free to do whatever the fuck they want.

awh that sounds nice. too bad your "precautionary measures" aren't defined and you can't guarantee they won't act in a criminal manner again because human nature is not so easily predictable.

oh yeah and your "precautionary measures" will cost law abiding citizens more resources, as it'll likely involve said criminals checking in with officers of the state.

And?


nah. you should try have some class.

and i think it's hilarious you care about the "current and non-fictional events, like the Catholic church running a child sex ring," but you don't care about the very active sex slave/child slave trade that is happening in the middle east right now. christian women and children are being sold at markets in the middle east as we speak and you ignore it because you don't care.

how noble of you, mattsmith.

No I care about that, what I don't care about is what you are telling me about what the prophet Muhammad.

[randall]

Because he committed a crime and they are consequences for it, but if we kill him for his crimes, it makes us as bad as him.

does it really make us as bad as him? i dont think so lol. we're as bad as the child molester who murdered his victim in cold blood and left his body to rot in a ditch? nah. we're serving justice for a crime that shouldn't have happened.

so you're way, the supposed moral way, is to imprison the child molestor/rapist in the hopes we can rehabilitate him( ie provide shelter for), clothe and feed the prisoner for however many decades until release or life if he is there for life, and allow them to exist in solitude on the taxpayer dime, for the sake of "not being as bad as them." despite the fact that just societies throughout history have killed violent criminals, child molestors, etc., until relatively recently in our world's history.

my way is cost efficient, timely, and has historical precedent, rather than emotional roots. and some would say moral roots as well, but i digress.

every human being has a right to live and its not because they did something horrible they should lose that right.

nah. some human beings should lose that right to life when they take another life. or four. or seventy seven. or rape a child. you think the dead/molested care about your nobility?

I got to admit its probably easier to get back to a normal life after coming out of prison for killing four people than 77,

nice aside.

but it doesn't change the fact that when they get out its because they payed their debt to society and will be free to do whatever the fuck they want.

so, were i to so desire, you're cool with me going to murder 15 innocent people in a shopping mall with a machete, serving however many decades/however many joke life sentences im served with, and then i get released (only to hope for the best that I don't commit another crime)/die in prison, well fed and safe, and that's your idea of justice.

And?

thus your idea of justice is shit. you don't even know how you'd prevent the criminal from perpetrating another act were he to so desire, you simply state "there'll be precautionary measures" which equates to "the state will handle it lel". much easier to put a terrorist/incredibly violent/malicious sexual predator down than it is to feed him, clothe him, and shelter him everyday for decades/the rest of his life, only to hope for the best that upon release/while in prison he doesn't perpetrate more crimes.

No I care about that, what I don't care about is what you are telling me about what the prophet Muhammad.

muhammad (piss be upon him) is the center of the faith. if you actually care about Islam you should care about the fact that the "prophet" is a pedophile.

[mattsmith48]

does it really make us as bad as him? i dont think so lol. we're as bad as the child molester who murdered his victim in cold blood and left his body to rot in a ditch? nah. we're serving justice for a crime that shouldn't have happened.

Yes you are as bad.

so you're way, the supposed moral way, is to imprison the child molestor/rapist in the hopes we can rehabilitate him( ie provide shelter for), clothe and feed the prisoner for however many decades until release or life if he is there for life, and allow them to exist in solitude on the taxpayer dime, for the sake of "not being as bad as them." despite the fact that just societies throughout history have killed violent criminals, child molestors, etc., until relatively recently in our world's history.

Its not my way, its the way of every western countries beside a few regions in the US. Its not because we've been doing something since forever that it is necessarily the best or right thing to do.

my way is cost efficient, timely, and has historical precedent, rather than emotional roots. and some would say moral roots as well, but i digress.

nah. some human beings should lose that right to life when they take another life. or four. or seventy seven. or rape a child. you think the dead/molested care about your nobility?

So the murderer taking a way the right to someone to live is wrong, but the state doing it is perfectly fine? Also your precedent is mostly dictators and religious leaders.


so, were i to so desire, you're cool with me going to murder 15 innocent people in a shopping mall with a machete, serving however many decades/however many joke life sentences im served with, and then i get released (only to hope for the best that I don't commit another crime)/die in prison, well fed and safe, and that's your idea of justice.

If prisons are use for rehabilitation instead of punishment we wouldn't have to hope or worry about that.

thus your idea of justice is shit. you don't even know how you'd prevent the criminal from perpetrating another act were he to so desire, you simply state "there'll be precautionary measures" which equates to "the state will handle it lel". much easier to put a terrorist/incredibly violent/malicious sexual predator down than it is to feed him, clothe him, and shelter him everyday for decades/the rest of his life, only to hope for the best that upon release/while in prison he doesn't perpetrate more crimes.

Because threatening to kill people is a much better way to prevent crimes.

[DriveAlive]

I really dislike the idea of the government having the power to execute its citizens.

[randall]

Yes you are as bad.

no, we aren't as bad.

see how that works? :lol:

Its not my way, its the way of every western countries beside a few regions in the US.

it was only until recently in our world's history that western nations eliminated the use of the death penalty. are we better off today than we were sixty years ago, in regards to crime statistics? some would argue of course we are, others would argue we are not. i think that the death penalty is a nice deterrent for crimes against humanity/war crimes/atrocities/senseless slaughter and rape.

Its not because we've been doing something since forever that it is necessarily the best or right thing to do.

that goes without saying.

just because we haven't ever done something, doesnt mean that its necessarily something we should strive to do.

So the murderer taking a way the right to someone to live is wrong, but the state doing it is perfectly fine?

yes. you see, there would have been a trial in which the alleged child molestor/murderer could have defended himself, before being executed. he would only be executed if found undeniably guilty of course.

you act as though after he's brought into the station id like the cops to put a bullet in the alleged rapists head. while that would certainly save time, and money, we are a civil society, and he deserves a chance to defend his innocence before a court of law. only after he is found guilty would i like certain criminals to he executed.

Also your precedent is mostly dictators and religious leaders.

the vast majority of leaders are dictators and what does being religious have to do with anything lmao

If prisons are use for rehabilitation instead of punishment we wouldn't have to hope or worry about that.

oh right, a child molestor/murderer deserves the chance to be "rehabilitated" rather than put down, because you've got to prove your moral superiority to the rapist and society at large.

you put so much unwarranted hope in the rehabilitation of criminals. certainly, in some, if not most cases, rehabilitation can be helpful. addiction, compulsive thievery, etc. but to clothe, feed, shelter, and attempt to "rehabilitate" a man who not only deprived a child of their life, but sexually molested them before killing them; for the sake of preserving your own nobility? seems pretty passive aggressive to me, and doesn't send a message to any future potential child molestor that they will in any way face equal consequences for the crimes they committed against the child or any victim they choose. they'll only receive "help and care, attempt at understanding and reconciliation," while the child/victim remains exploited forever, or worse, dead.

Because threatening to kill people is a much better way to prevent crimes.

threatening people with death is a pretty solid way of deterring them from perpetrating senseless/depraved criminal acts, such as raping children, murdering innocents, shooting up schools, selling dirty heroin, etc.

i don't think it should be used in all cases. only extreme cases, as stated above.

I really dislike the idea of the government having the power to execute its citizens.

only in extreme cases; war crimes, crimes against humanity, terrorism, sexual exploitation of children, etc., should execution be an option on the table, imo. to grant government the power that, say, the saudi arabian/pakistani governments have over their citizens would be a grievous error.

[Desynchronized]

I see it simple: someone who rapes, molests or kills bunch of people in cold blood doesn't belong in a normal human society. We needa get rid of him/her. Easiest way is execution. I also support the fact that *SOME* deserves a chance. But killing or raping or molesting *multiple* is just off limits.

[Snowfox]

Randal you act like we should trust civil servants or courts? World we currently live and is such that 100% of judges and jurys and 100% of civil servants everywhere are lazy and corrupted. So outcome of trials are gamble.
Also I fail to see this rapists should die thing at general. While I can understand in some primal level killing of murderers "eye for an eye" Rape doesnt outright kill anyone.
Like how it is worse if drunk driver drives over child who dies. This driver is charged with drunk driving and involuntray manslaughter and gets several years. ok fine with that but when this same person rapes child he deserves death.
Results of crime are different in first child is dead in second child is not dead. So rape per se is not deadly.
Also what is counted as rape?

When my friend Marco age 13 (name changed) sells sex to adult customers for money is it rape? He does it voluntarily he doesnt have pimp many cops are his customers etc. He uses half that that money help family and rest half he uses to get nice clothes and alcohol and tobacco.

Or what about word against word situations. Example of those man meats girl in pub they get along and go to somewhere and they have sex. All this under influence of alcohol or other things BUT no violence what so ever. Man thinks she wanted it and after it like next day he is accused of rape cause woman gets drinkers remorse or that she is complete bitch and does it for fun. Proof exists that they made sex but proof of rape doesnt exist.

Also when it comes to illegal forms of pornography. Well That is a crime without a victim. If someone likes cartoons where boys are raped well that person may be sick in head but no one has been hurt while making of those cartoons? or has child sex doll to fuck. Or when he goes to boyslut or girl slut and pays and gets it done that way. Again no one was actually hurt.
Children are sexual beings like adults hell I am 14 and I am sexuial being. If someone roughly my age wants to do it with other boys who am I to judge them or wants to do it with sheeps same thing again or wants to do it with way older same thing again.
As long as they understand concept of sex and right or wrong and do it voluntarily it should be their choise not societys choise.

[Dalcourt]

As numerous cases already have shown judges and juries can make mistakes. People can be declared guilty even if they are innocent. And if just one innocent person is killed because of such a mistake it's one person to much.

Death penalty doesn't do a thing to deterre people since every criminal has the delusion that he or she is more intelligent than others or the police and won't get caught. Or the criminals simply don't care. Otherwise there should be much lower crime rates in countries with death penalty, shouldn't there?

So what good will it do in the end? Even for the victims and the families.
If you were raped will killing the abuser give you back your innocene and wipe everything from your mind? If your loved one was killed will the person come back from the dead?
So why would I want this person who did it killed... in the long run my situation as a victim of some sort won't change. Revenge and hate don't make things whole again.
There will always be a new predator out there ... it will never stop.
So honestly I don't see any benefits in tainting my conscience with hate, revenge and retaliate a bad deed with having the person who did it killed killed.

Life imprisonment is way enough.

[randall]

Randal you act like we should trust civil servants or courts?

why do we elect these people if we shouldn't? you realize that a court of law/trial will involve a jury of peers to determine this man's innocence?

World we currently live and is such that 100% of judges and jurys and 100% of civil servants everywhere are lazy and corrupted

really? you think youd be any better/have any single shred of evidence to back this claim up, besides your own angst ofc?

So outcome of trials are gamble.

im not sure you've ever been involved in a trial/court of law.

(after reading and responding to the entirety of your reply, it is very clear you've never been involved in a trial/court of law)

Also I fail to see this rapists should die thing at general. While I can understand in some primal level killing of murderers "eye for an eye" Rape doesnt outright kill anyone.

and here comes the supposed moral superiority. "we're better than the child rapist/murderer, thus, we should try and understand/rehabilitate him rather than put him out of his misery, because muh human life!"

Like how it is worse if drunk driver drives over child who dies.

id argue thats not worse by virtue of the driver beint inebriated and arguably unable to control him or herself, whereas a premeditated molestation and murder of a child is pretty fucking worse compared to a drunk dude fucking up.

This driver is charged with drunk driving and involuntray manslaughter and gets several years. ok fine with that but when this same person rapes child he deserves death.

DUI manslaughter and premeditated rape of a child are not equal crimes lol. i don't even understand you're train of thought here..

Results of crime are different in first child is dead in second child is not dead. So rape per se is not deadly.

the first child is dead because of a man who was under the influence. the second child is raped by a man who not only was sober, but premeditated the attack. and somehow the drunk driver is worse? at least the drunk driver has an excuse; stupidity. the rapist? malicious lust after a child.

Also what is counted as rape?

in this case forcing children to engage in sexual activity.

When my friend Marco age 13 (name changed) sells sex to adult customers for money is it rape?

yes.

He does it voluntarily he doesnt have pimp many cops are his customers etc. He uses half that that money help family and rest half he uses to get nice clothes and alcohol and tobacco.

yes, it is rape.

what about word against word situations. Example of those man meats girl in pub they get along and go to somewhere and they have sex. All this under influence of alcohol or other things BUT no violence what so ever. Man thinks she wanted it and after it like next day he is accused of rape cause woman gets drinkers remorse or that she is complete bitch and does it for fun. Proof exists that they made sex but proof of rape doesnt exist.

as i said id like undeniable proof of a crime before enforcing the death penalty lmfao.

Also when it comes to illegal forms of pornography. Well That is a crime without a victim. If someone likes cartoons where boys are raped well that person may be sick in head but no one has been hurt while making of those cartoons? or has child sex doll to fuck. Or when he goes to boyslut or girl slut and pays and gets it done that way. Again no one was actually hurt.

i actually think porn like this should be outlawed because it does nothing but satisfy sick perversions that will kindle a desire for individuals to perpetrate in the real world.

but we digress. this has absolutely nothing to do with the death penalty.

Children are sexual beings like adults

no they arent. this is a sick and twisted view of the world.

children hell I am 14 and I am sexuial being.

no, you're not. you may think you are and pride yourself in your perversions. but you are not supposed to be this way.

If someone roughly my age wants to do it with other boys who am I to judge them or wants to do it with sheeps same thing again or wants to do it with way older same thing again.

i don't even know where to begin to approach this madness. you literally just advocate for fucking sheeps here.

As long as they understand concept of sex and right or wrong and do it voluntarily it should be their choise not societys choise.

why is it your diatribe was less of an argument against the death penalty and more of a breakdown of why you think kids should be allowed to have sex?

[Desynchronized]

Peanut_ it simply isn't about hate or revenge or making the victims family feel better. Its about serving justice and preventing it from happening again. life imprisonment CAN prevent it from happening again *by the same killer*. But imo it won't bother potential killers enough. N y bother when there is a more cost effective way? Plus i don't want my hard earned money b spent for buying the foods n clothes of some serial killer. Rather give it 2 a dog shelter.

[Snowfox]

randall Few things

1: We dont elect public servants. One ends up being public servant by inheriting such position or by buying it.

2:Every single person is lazy and corrupted. Does this person admit this to himself is another question. Give someone any power and they never fail to abuse it.

3: Big question is not what criminal may had in mind when he/she committed certain act. What was result of said act is more important. This is philosophical viewpoint.

4:You say that rape is forcing someone into sexual action which is true. But then you say that voluntary sex is also rape. This doesn't make any sense. I think you base term voluntary to some arbitrary concept of age. Age limits generally are arbitrary.

5: So do you accuse Marco for selfraping himself with his customers or customers bying what he sells?

6: You want to outlaw some forms of porn cause you dont like it not that you can prove it actually hurts anyone. Same arguments have been used against all forms of porn.

7: I am not pervert I am 14 years old straight boy and I have girlfriend. But I realize that other preferences do exist. Also where I live kids are allowed to have sex below age of consent kids doing things with each other is not criminal in anyway where I live. While kid who sells himself is not criminal his customers are.

8: Also having sex with animals is not crime here. Regardles if you like it or not its completely normal in many cultures like in Scottish culture and in Islamic culture even Germans are rumored to do it or was it with pigs... Anyway got the point

Children are sexual beings they do wank and make more kids as teens. Sexuality just doesnt pop up magically overnight when person turns 18

[randall]

1: We dont elect public servants. One ends up being public servant by inheriting such position or by buying it.

doesnt work like that here kiddo.

Every single person is lazy and corrupted.

that is your opinion. everyone inherently has the ability to become lazy and corrupted, true. not everyone is. you make that choice.

Does this person admit this to himself is another question.

again, you state it as some universal truth but it is only your opinion. i am not lazy, nor am i "corrupted." i am inherently a sinful creature; all men are. but corrupted/lazy? nah.

Give someone any power and they never fail to abuse it.

in most cases i agree with this.

Big question is not what criminal may had in mind when he/she committed certain act. What was result of said act is more important. This is philosophical viewpoint.

agree that this is a philosophical difference between us. i think that a premeditated act is far more worthy of repercussions than an act made spontaneously/accidentally. obviously circumstances surrounding the act and the result of the act matter as well.

You say that rape is forcing someone into sexual action which is true. But then you say that voluntary sex is also rape.

this perspective only works when you eliminate all differences between the adolescent mind and the adult mind, for the sake of the pursuit of immediate sexual/worldly pleasure. it can't be voluntary because the child hasn't developed fully yet; he cannot understand what he is doing to himself. children are far more impressional than a fresh high school graduate. it's easy to convince them to do something they otherwise wouldn't do, and if they don't want to do it and you push enough you can get them to anyways. and then there's the defending themselves aspect, which they cant, unless they're some sort of physical freak of nature.

what do you think one of your friends customers would do were he to refuse him after making a deal? could your friend defend himself from a customer who forces himself upon him? does your friend understand the medical repercussions of his actions?

This doesn't make any sense. I think you base term voluntary to some arbitrary concept of age. Age limits generally are arbitrary.

i base it on the development of the brain. the child is young and being molested by men who give him material objects in return for his sexual innocence. he doesn't understand because he hasn't been given the opportunity to live and develope.

So do you accuse Marco for selfraping himself with his customers or customers bying what he sells?

i accuse marco of not understanding the trial in which he has put himself through, and i accuse the men who partake in this sick and twisted act, of raping the child, in exchange for material goods.

to be honest, i really don't give a fuck about your anecdotal argument.

You want to outlaw some forms of porn cause you dont like it not that you can prove it actually hurts anyone. Same arguments have been used against all forms of porn.

have you studied what porn does to the mind? it's not good. if you honestly believe that fetishises aren't developed through hours and hours of porn watching, or conditioning, there is no point in continuing this conversation.

sick fetishises like desiring to watch "cartoons where boys are raped" is not normal for a man, or woman, to desire, and we should not encourage rape porn anywhere in the world, victimless or not.

I am not pervert

i respectfully disagree, based on the statements which you have provided thus far.

I am 14 years old straight boy and I have girlfriend.

k

But I realize that other preferences do exist.

so do i. just because they exist doesnt mean we have to advocate them. despite dear marco, i still think encouraging children to have sex is detestable behavior, and that any man who exploits a child deserves a bullet.

Also where I live kids are allowed to have sex below age of consent

cool. just cause it happens doesnt mean it should.

Kids doing things with each other is not criminal in anyway where I live.

i agree with this tbh. but that doesn't mean we should encourage children to be "sexual beings" lmfao

A kid who sells himself is not criminal his customers are.

a kid who sells himself is in need of rehabilitation and care.

the men who exploit the child are criminal, you said it yourself.

Also having sex with animals is not crime here.

oh lol. still gross.

Regardless if you like it or not its completely normal in many cultures like in Scottish culture and in Islamic culture even Germans are rumored to do it or was it with pigs... Anyway got the point

you state this as though you believe the majority of these peoples fucked animals. they didnt. the ones who did were by far the minority and should be considered sexually deviant.

what if the animal doesn't want it and they proceed to rape the animal? is that okay cause it gets them off?

Children are sexual beings

no theyre not, and...

they do wank and make more kids as teens.

you just made a distinction between kids and teens. teens i consider 14/15 up, their sexuality is truly beginning to develop, as i said above, children (teens specifically) will pursue each other, theyre the same age, they have the same desires and are most usually on the same path of development; that is natural, im not dumb.

poor marco, however, will never have proper sexual development because of whats been done to him.

Sexuality just doesnt pop up magically overnight when person turns 18

no it doesn't. it also doesn't magically just pop up when you're born. it takes time; more time than you think.

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if you really want to debate "sexual liberty" make a new thread because we've gone far off topic my dude.

death penalty is still necessary for child rapists, war criminals, terrorists, mass murders and serial killers, imho.

[Dalcourt]

Peanut_ it simply isn't about hate or revenge or making the victims family feel better. Its about serving justice and preventing it from happening again. life imprisonment CAN prevent it from happening again *by the same killer*. But imo it won't bother potential killers enough. N y bother when there is a more cost effective way? Plus i don't want my hard earned money b spent for buying the foods n clothes of some serial killer. Rather give it 2 a dog shelter.

I am not interested in persuading anyone but the same nothing you or any other problems death sentence person says here will ever persuade me. Taking someone's life for whatever reason is wrong in my eyes full stop.

Serve justice that's such a grand term. What is just and what not? As 100 people and you get 100 opinions.
We make up laws and say imposing them is just. At the same time we claim what the Nazis did was wrong, what's done in North Korea is wrong, Sharia law is wrong....so in their place and their view it is right and just.

So once again people decide what is just and people are subject to make mistakes. So I personally I could never feel so superior to others to decide that it is just to take their lives.

Death penalty doesn't prevent crime. It is just the naive view of people who never came in contact with those things in real life.
It's simply not like criminals think.
Like my Dad he's not big fish when it comes to crime but he knows and is friends with some of the bigger fish. I mean I have heard those people talk. They don't care, they are not scared by the law or cops. It's not part of their world.
The cost thing has been debatedo a lot. Most prisons are run like private companies and don't cost much of your hard earned money.


My opinion therefore is rather simple: people make mistakes, people are not neutral and so the decision what is right or wrong will always be a subjective one. We are not some higher beings with a completely neutral judgement so we don't have the right to decide whether someone should die or not. Our justice is nothing more than a revenge and serves you right mentality. We are not capable of anything else.
Criminals feel superior to others as they think they can decide whether another should live or not. If we act the same wray are not better than them.
Argue whatever you want. This is my opinion and it won't change. My conscience says me I can't decide about other people's life. Especially since a person is a lot more than just the crime he or she committed.