The Death Penalty

[Rene]

What is your opinion on it?

[Bmble_B]

Hmm, this is an extremely hard and sensitive subject. Ill just state my opinion, I dont think the death penalty is right. Since it conflicts with one of the 10 commandments (Im Christian). Instead of just killing them, I think they should just keep them in prison for the rest of their lives.

[AlexOnToast]

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"

[Harry Smith]

It doesn't work on any level-I'll do a very quick debunking
1) It doesn't act as a deterrent
2)It's often more expensive due to appeals and retrials
3)Breaks about every single human rights treaty
4)Puts obscene amount of power in the state's hands (and judges)
5)Kills innocent people

[ksdnfkfr]

I see no real benefit in it.
Smacks too much of revenge.
All of the methods used are brutal.

[Croconaw]

It should imply to people that deserve it like rapists and child molesters.

[PinkFloyd]

If you killed someone, no.

If you raped and killed- no fuck it. just raped 15 people, yes.

[Harry Smith]

It should imply to people that deserve it like rapists and child molesters.

If you killed someone, no.

If you raped and killed- no fuck it. just raped 15 people, yes.

Why is rape seen as worse than murder? I'll happily admit it's a terrible crime but I don't think someone should be condemned to death for rape. I know it feels fun sitting in the victim chair and getting revenge but what does it really achieve?

[Charlie48]

It's been fine for thousands of years, no need to change it now. :)

[PinkFloyd]

Why is rape seen as worse than murder? I'll happily admit it's a terrible crime but I don't think someone should be condemned to death for rape. I know it feels fun sitting in the victim chair and getting revenge but what does it really achieve?

I'll admit that I like to have the knowledge of someone suffering after doing something sick like that. If I was the father of an 8 year old and my 8 year old was raped, it would take every urge in my mind to not slit their throat myself. As bad as it sounds, I'm just saying what I think.

[Gamma Male]

No. It accomplishes nothing. The purpose of justice is to prevent bad things from happening again, not to extract revenge on behalf of the victims.

[AlexOnToast]

It's been fine for thousands of years, no need to change it now. :)

So was slavery, and it defied less human rights.

[Harry Smith]

I'll admit that I like to have the knowledge of someone suffering after doing something sick like that. If I was the father of an 8 year old and my 8 year old was raped, it would take every urge in my mind to not slit their throat myself. As bad as it sounds, I'm just saying what I think.

That's perfectly understandable, it's just human nature. I just don't think that should be applied to the law because say for example if someone burnt my house down I'd probably want to do the same to them-we can't live a society governed by revenge because it just doesn't work in legal terms.

Just do your own dirty work-get a Stanley blade and slit their throat. If you try and get it down through the Death Penalty your going to have to wait about 5 years

[PinkFloyd]

That's perfectly understandable, it's just human nature. I just don't think that should be applied to the law because say for example if someone burnt my house down I'd probably want to do the same to them-we can't live a society governed by revenge because it just doesn't work in legal terms.

Just do your own dirty work-get a Stanley blade and slit their throat. If you try and get it down through the Death Penalty your going to have to wait about 5 years

Yeah, I see what you're saying.

[Charlie48]

So was slavery, and it defied less human rights.


Slavery still exists everywhere in the world, that'll never disappear and nor will the death penalty in certain places. Just got to accept that's the way society works. No point trying to change it, you'll be silenced very quickly.

[AlexOnToast]

Slavery still exists everywhere in the world, that'll never disappear and nor will the death penalty in certain places. Just got to accept that's the way society works. No point trying to change it, you'll be silenced very quickly.

So to summaries what you just said: Bad things exist and always will so there is no point in trying to change anything.


At the end of the day, isn't life all about keeping up the struggle against bad things so that the good things might prevail?

[Harry Smith]

Slavery still exists everywhere in the world, that'll never disappear and nor will the death penalty in certain places. Just got to accept that's the way society works. No point trying to change it, you'll be silenced very quickly.

I'm sorry but that's complete bollocks.

We have laws banning slavery in Britain, in the same way that we've banned the Death Penalty since 1965 so yeah we've managed to change it and we've not been silenced. I could understand your argument if it was actually backed by data. Nearly every single developed country with the exception of the US have removed the death Penalty

[Charlie48]

So to summaries what you just said: Bad things exist and always will so there is no point in trying to change anything.


At the end of the day, isn't life all about keeping up the struggle against bad things so that the good things might prevail?


Yeh I basically believe that. I know it's pretty sadistic, but factors beyond my control are what controls the world. I would love to rule the world and make it a peaceful place but every tyrant in history had the same idea. I just try and uphold a bit of karma in my everyday a good and moral human being. :) Keeps me happy. :)

[Harry Smith]

Yeh I basically believe that. I know it's pretty sadistic, but factors beyond my control are what controls the world. I would love to rule the world and make it a peaceful place but every tyrant in history had the same idea. I just try and uphold a bit of karma in my everyday a good and moral human being. :) Keeps me happy. :)

That's nothing to do with the death Penalty though.

Despite tyrants in history we've managed to ban the Death Penalty

[Charlie48]

I'm sorry but that's complete bollocks.

We have laws banning slavery in Britain, in the same way that we've banned the Death Penalty since 1965 so yeah we've managed to change it and we've not been silenced. I could understand your argument if it was actually backed by data. Nearly every single developed country with the exception of the US have removed the death Penalty


You're the one talking shit. Great you have laws, also great they get broken. Slavery still thrives, you can't stop all of it, because you don't even know about most of it till long after it's happened. Want an example? Child prostitution on the streets of London. That's a form of slavery and it's out in the open.
Data Data Data Data...Wow. You seriously need to travel outside your little island, plenty of developed countries still hold the death penalty, go to Kuwait, lovely economically developed and prosperous country. Deal some drugs whilst you're there and you'll learn all about the death penalty :D

[Charlie48]

I'm sorry but that's complete bollocks.

We have laws banning slavery in Britain, in the same way that we've banned the Death Penalty since 1965 so yeah we've managed to change it and we've not been silenced. I could understand your argument if it was actually backed by data. Nearly every single developed country with the exception of the US have removed the death Penalty


You're the one talking shit. Great you have laws, also great they get broken. Slavery still thrives, you can't stop all of it, because you don't even know about most of it till long after it's happened. Want an example? Child prostitution on the streets of London. That's a form of slavery and it's out in the open.
Data Data Data Data...Wow. You seriously need to travel outside your little island, plenty of developed countries still hold the death penalty, go to Kuwait, lovely economically developed and prosperous country. Deal some drugs whilst you're there and you'll learn all about the death penalty :D

[Zenos]

You're the one talking shit. Great you have laws, also great they get broken. Slavery still thrives, you can't stop all of it, because you don't even know about most of it till long after it's happened. Want an example? Child prostitution on the streets of London. That's a form of slavery and it's out in the open.
Data Data Data Data...Wow. You seriously need to travel outside your little island, plenty of developed countries still hold the death penalty, go to Kuwait, lovely economically developed and prosperous country. Deal some drugs whilst you're there and you'll learn all about the death penalty :D

Dude it's no talking to him on stuff like that if your from the USA!

While I like Britian,he seems to think the tight little Island is paradise.

yes Child prostitution happens there just like in other nations and it's slavery.

whats more I never hear him berating the fact that there are at least 85 Islamic Sharia Law courts operating in Britain implementing a law that has nothing to do with the law laid down but the sovereign law insitutes of his nation!

[AlexOnToast]

Dude it's no talking to him on stuff like that if your from the USA!

While I like Britian,he seems to think the tight little Island is paradise.


Talk about petty jab's...

[Zenos]

Talk about petty jab's...

No that wasn't petty I can be petty but I choose not to I was stating a fact,Mr. Smith has to drag the US into everyone of his statements like some how the UK is better or something!

that crap would erk a deadman into maing a comment and their dead!

[Its Pretty]

The death penalty is the only just way to deal with cold blooded murderers who have shown little restraint in their actions (provided there is proof beyond doubt that they are the culprit, of course)

I absolutely support capital punishment one hundred percent, and I believe the abolition of it can be harmful to society.

[Harry Smith]

No that wasn't petty I can be petty but I choose not to I was stating a fact,Mr. Smith has to drag the US into everyone of his statements like some how the UK is better or something!

that crap would erk a deadman into maing a comment and their dead!

In the death Penalty I'm pretty sure the EU,UN,Amnesty international and about every single supranational organizational would agree that the UK and many other countries such as Canada have a much more progressive approach to the death Penalty. You also seem to be bringing up my national heritage a lot- you don't want to open that can of worms. You don't want us to burn down your white house again do you

So yeah in regards to the Death Penalty it really is about the United States.

Also about the Sharia law courts-you've had this problem in the past. You quite clearly don't understand the court system but that's okay. The claim was made by the Daily Mail in 2009-if you bothered to learn about Britain then you'd know that 99% of what they say is completely bollocks-this is a newspaper that supported Hitler in the 1930's. These 'sharia' courts have absolutely no legal authority over our sovereign nation. It's like me saying my house is a courtroom and becoming a judge-there's no legal power there

You're the one talking shit. Great you have laws, also great they get broken. Slavery still thrives, you can't stop all of it, because you don't even know about most of it till long after it's happened. Want an example? Child prostitution on the streets of London. That's a form of slavery and it's out in the open.
Data Data Data Data...Wow. You seriously need to travel outside your little island, plenty of developed countries still hold the death penalty, go to Kuwait, lovely economically developed and prosperous country. Deal some drugs whilst you're there and you'll learn all about the death penalty :D

In all fairness I've been the most vocal critic of the current British Government-so if you claim I think I live in some sort of 'paradise' you quite clearly don't know me at all. But really where I come from shouldn't matter in a debate- do we really need to have 'everyone is the same' talk guys? Your a bit old for that aren't you?

I wouldn't argue that Kuwait are developed, look at their HDI for education and the numerous human rights abuses in the 1980's and 90's.

You also seem to a very confused, your advocating some sort of anarchist approach simply because laws still get broken but you want the death Penalty?

The death penalty is the only just way to deal with cold blooded murderers who have shown little restraint in their actions (provided there is proof beyond doubt that they are the culprit, of course)

I absolutely support capital punishment one hundred percent, and I believe the abolition of it can be harmful to society.

Firstly-you can't absolutely support something 100%!

The abolition really isn't harmful for society-Canada abolished it in 1975 and their murder rate went down 40%.

Second it's easy to say have proof beyond doubt but how do you put that into a court of law? It really just depends on the individual judge because one may claim that there's prood beyond doubt and others may not, I understand your idea but it simply hasn't worked because every court claim to 'get it right'

[maddogmj77]

I think that it should only be used on mass-murderers or people of the like

[Its Pretty]

In the death Penalty I'm pretty sure the EU,UN,Amnesty international and about every single supranational organizational would agree that the UK and many other countries such as Canada have a much more progressive approach to the death Penalty. You also seem to be bringing up my national heritage a lot- you don't want to open that can of worms

So yeah in regards to the Death Penalty it really is about the United States.

Also about the Sharia law courts-you've had this problem in the past. You quite clearly don't understand the court system but that's okay. The claim was made by the Daily Mail in 2009-if you bothered to learn about Britain then you'd know that 99% of what they say is completely bollocks-this is a newspaper that supported Hitler in the 1930's. These 'sharia' courts have absolutely no legal authority over our sovereign nation. It's like me saying my house is a courtroom and becoming a judge-there's no legal power there



In all fairness I've been the most vocal critic of the current British Government-so if you claim I think I live in some sort of 'paradise' you quite clearly don't know me at all. But really where I come from shouldn't matter in a debate- do we really need to have 'everyone is the same' talk guys? Your a bit old for that aren't you?

I wouldn't argue that Kuwait are developed, look at their HDI for education and the numerous human rights abuses in the 1980's and 90's.

You also seem to a very confused, your advocating some sort of anarchist approach simply because laws still get broken but you want the death Penalty?



Firstly-you can't absolutely support something 100%!

The abolition really isn't harmful for society-Canada abolished it in 1975 and their murder rate went down 40%.

Second it's easy to say have proof beyond doubt but how do you put that into a court of law? It really just depends on the individual judge because one may claim that there's prood beyond doubt and others may not, I understand your idea but it simply hasn't worked because every court claim to 'get it right'

If I can't absolutely support something 100%... then how can you absolutely support (the idea that something cannot be supported 100%) 100%..? Doesn't that make you a n00b?

Also, where are you getting these (very shocking) statistics from? Do you have a link for me?

[Harry Smith]

If I can't absolutely support something 100%... then how can you absolutely support (the idea that something cannot be supported 100%) 100%..? Doesn't that make you a n00b?

Also, where are you getting these (very shocking) statistics from? Do you have a link for me?

My point about grammar was that you either support something absolutely or you support it 100%, there's really no point saying both of them because they both mean the same thing but yeah I'm just being a dick about grammar.

• The murder rate in Canada has dropped by 40% since the death penalty was abolished in that country in 1976. (Amnesty International)

[Vlerchan]

I'm just going to repeat my last post on the issue if nobody minds:
This again ..?

There's no rational argument for the continuance of Capital Punishment - or the Death Penalty. I've pressed this point numerous times here. The opposition will argue either a) murderers and rapists & other violent criminals deserve to have their lives terminated on the basis of the crimes that the jury finds them guilty[1] of - as if someone should have such a right as to extinguish somebodies very life in the first place; judge who may live and who may die - which is simply an appeal to emotion of the worst sorts or b) they'll get back out and murder again - read: scaremongering - which can easily be avoided through keeping them locked up. What they'll avoid is the simple reality that capital punishment is neither economical, fair, moral, necessary, logical, a reasonable deterrent to future crime, or pose any actual benefit to society as a whole; that won't be mentioned.

I also believe it's fundamentally wrong to base our legal system(s) around the ideas of revenge and spite and retribution as opposed to values such as fairness; it's wrong that we should grant the state the right to murder it's own citizens in order to fulfil some sense of revenge on the behalf of the families; it more-so wrong that we believe that this sense of revenge needs to be satisfied for the families in the first place - "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind", and all. This passionate 'justice' gets everybody nowhere

(provided there is proof beyond doubt that they are the culprit, of course)

There's no such thing as proof beyond doubt. Someone being guilty merely means that there's enough evidence to convict without a reasonable degree of doubt present in order to withhold such a conviction.

Here's another past post:

An individual being declared guilty simply means that there is convincing evidence without a reasonable degree of doubt - and doubt has always been an incredibly ambiguous term legal-wise. The opposite is not-guilty - i.e., there is not convincing evidence without a reasonable degree of doubt. You'll find that the term innocent is never used in place of it. Why? Because you can never be entirely certain whether someone is truly innocent or not.

Guilty has never been a measure of certainty, it's simply a term used to describe a person that the law believes to have committed a crime and has not been presented with enough evidence to rule contrary. Between 1973 - 1999 there was on average 3.1 exonerations from Death Row per year and between 2000 - 2007 there was an average 5 exonerations per year - that's an awful lot of people almost murdered right there.

[Miserabilia]

I think that if you want to punish somebody so extremely you want to kill them,
it's actualy better to let them finish their lives in captivity.

Even if it is fairly comfortable, they hardly have a life, and they will have all that time to think about what they have done.

[Zenos]

[QUOTE=Harry Smith;2697951]In the death Penalty I'm pretty sure the EU,UN,Amnesty international and about every single supranational organizational would agree that the UK and many other countries such as Canada have a much more progressive approach to the death Penalty. You also seem to be bringing up my national heritage a lot- you don't want to open that can of worms. You don't want us to burn down your white house again do you

So yeah in regards to the Death Penalty it really is about the United States.

[/QOUTE]

( look a person that can and does commit reasonless murder has shown they have no regard for human life,and should be punished in a similar manner i.e. the death penalty to show people if you can't play by societies rules in regard to human life the you have forfitted yours,I wouldn't bring up your national heritage if you'd stop with your eliteist attitude toward the USA.


Lol dude hah hah your navy would het blown out of the water before it got close enough for that))

[Harry Smith]

[QUOTE=Harry Smith;2697951]In the death Penalty I'm pretty sure the EU,UN,Amnesty international and about every single supranational organizational would agree that the UK and many other countries such as Canada have a much more progressive approach to the death Penalty. You also seem to be bringing up my national heritage a lot- you don't want to open that can of worms. You don't want us to burn down your white house again do you

So yeah in regards to the Death Penalty it really is about the United States.

[/QOUTE]

( look a person that can and does commit reasonless murder has shown they have no regard for human life,and should be punished in a similar manner i.e. the death penalty to show people if you can't play by societies rules in regard to human life the you have forfitted yours,I wouldn't bring up your national heritage if you'd stop with your eliteist attitude toward the USA.


Lol dude hah hah your navy would het blown out of the water before it got close enough for that))

You don't have to be elitist to realize the US is the only western country that uses the death Penalty.

It even goes against your sacred constitution, did you know that?

[Miserabilia]

[QUOTE=Zenos;2700992]

You don't have to be elitist to realize the US is the only western country that uses the death Penalty.

It even goes against your sacred constitution, did you know that?

You've got a weird quote thing going on there, just thought you should know.

[Zenos]

I am such a child thinking I can take Harry Smiths quote and make it look like it's someone else's .

Ha!! I can do that too

[QUOTE=2700992]

You don't have to be elitist to realize the US is the only western country that uses the death Penalty.

It even goes against your sacred constitution, did you know that?

Very funny putting words in my mouth you and everyone else with a brain that goes back and reads will realize is not my words but yours!

Merged double post. -Cygnus David

[Damien2014]

What is your opinion on it?

I strongly believe they should have death penalty back in Australia
there are paedophiles, murderers, and they get very minimal sentences e.g.
A drunk driver gets more time than a murder..

IT would be better for society if they were punished to death..

[Miserabilia]

Ha!! I can do that too

What? No, I was just saying, you should edit your post, because I don't know what you did but there's something wrong with the way you quoted

[Lovecraft]

Objectively I know that it isn't fair because no single human can fairly make a judgement regarding whether another human should or should not live. No gods, no kings, only men; we're all equal and none of us can really claim to be morally superior.

Subjectively I'm for it because I hate some people enough that I believe they deserve death. It doesn't matter either way to me. If the government wants to systematically kill some rapists, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

[Zenos]

Objectively I know that it isn't fair because no single human can fairly make a judgement regarding whether another human should or should not live. No gods, no kings, only men; we're all equal and none of us can really claim to be morally superior.

Subjectively I'm for it because I hate some people enough that I believe they deserve death. It doesn't matter either way to me. If the government wants to systematically kill some rapists, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

If they are killing and murdering it's quite obvious they can't live among civilized folk.Have to do something with the animals.

Oh by the way love the name and you Mythos quote "That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die "

Nice to meet another Lovecraft fan:D

[Lovecraft]

If they are killing and murdering it's quite obvious they can't live among civilized folk.Have to do something with the animals.

Oh by the way love the name and you Mythos quote "That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die "

Nice to meet another Lovecraft fan:D

I'm sort of weird about morals. I don't believe that anything is inherently "wrong" philosophically, and I don't believe in moral superiority. I often quote the guys over at Rapture from Bioshock on this: "No Gods, No Kings, Only Men." Murderers are just as human as me. Do I like them? No. But I don't think they're lesser.

Nice to meet you too. (; Favourite HPL story?

[Zenos]

I'm sort of weird about morals. I don't believe that anything is inherently "wrong" philosophically, and I don't believe in moral superiority. I often quote the guys over at Rapture from Bioshock on this: "No Gods, No Kings, Only Men." Murderers are just as human as me. Do I like them? No. But I don't think they're lesser.

Nice to meet you too. (; Favourite HPL story?

Well its not a matter of moral superiority,it's just that for a society to function certain acts must be punished and in the case of murder harshly.

(My fave HPL story is Dreams in the Witch house...but then it's the first one I ever read too)

Oh yeh a cthulhu prayer is chanted on this site lol
giuve it a few seconds to get going after u click on it
http://cthulhucultistprayer.ytmnd.com/

[Lovecraft]

Well its not a matter of moral superiority,it's just that for a society to function certain acts must be punished and in the case of murder harshly.

(My fave HPL story is Dreams in the Witch house...but then it's the first one I ever read too)

Oh yeh a cthulhu prayer is chanted on this site lol
giuve it a few seconds to get going after u click on it
http://cthulhucultistprayer.ytmnd.com/

I'm typically against the concept of society (at least in the way it's been realized) so I tend not to consider what helps society function in my reasoning. I accept that in today's society such things do have to take place, I'm more speaking in terms of my idea of a utopia (no gods, no kings, only man, aka. no superiority, total equality) which is probably not very fitting for the conversation at hand. Heh.

You're one of the only people I know who didn't start with The Call of Cthulhu, neat! I like that one too. I think my favourite is The Haunter of the Dark.

[Zenos]

I'm typically against the concept of society (at least in the way it's been realized) so I tend not to consider what helps society function in my reasoning. I accept that in today's society such things do have to take place, I'm more speaking in terms of my idea of a utopia (no gods, no kings, only man, aka. no superiority, total equality) which is probably not very fitting for the conversation at hand. Heh.

You're one of the only people I know who didn't start with The Call of Cthulhu, neat! I like that one too. I think my favourite is The Haunter of the Dark.

If u find that Utopia please beam me there.
Well Dreams in the witch House was in a old book I found in an abandoned house it was book of rare stories and was published I think back in the 70's I think.

[Lovecraft]

If u find that Utopia please beam me there.
Well Dreams in the witch House was in a old book I found in an abandoned house it was book of rare stories and was published I think back in the 70's I think.

Will do.

That's a rad way to get introduced to Lovecraft, if you don't mind me saying. I've loved him for as long as I can remember; I think an older kid in elementary school lent me some stuff of his. There's just something very picturesque about someone finding a book in an abandoned house and ending up a fan, I love hearing about things like that.

[Zenos]

Will do.

That's a rad way to get introduced to Lovecraft, if you don't mind me saying. I've loved him for as long as I can remember; I think an older kid in elementary school lent me some stuff of his. There's just something very picturesque about someone finding a book in an abandoned house and ending up a fan, I love hearing about things like that.

Lol yeh and the only reason I went in that house was because it was raining and I needed a place to wait it out before trying to get back to my home.

[Lovecraft]

Lol yeh and the only reason I went in that house was because it was raining and I needed a place to wait it out before trying to get back to my home.

Ugh that's even cooler. Sounds like something from a book. I've never found anything interesting when I've tried urban exploration, certainly no engrossing cosmic horror collections. I envy you, friend.

[Zenos]

Ugh that's even cooler. Sounds like something from a book. I've never found anything interesting when I've tried urban exploration, certainly no engrossing cosmic horror collections. I envy you, friend.


well I guess that was the Great Old Ones,way of getting my attention,as I have went and bought a lot of books with his stories in them,and even have the Donald Tyson version of the Necronomiocn =),oh and aversion of the necronomicon that is in book The Necronomicon: Selected stories and essays concerning the blasphemous tome of the mad arab

[Lovecraft]

well I guess that was the Great Old Ones,way of getting my attention,as I have went and bought a lot of books with his stories in them,and even have the Donald Tyson version of the Necronomiocn =),oh and aversion of the necronomicon that is in book The Necronomicon: Selected stories and essays concerning the blasphemous tome of the mad arab

I'm so jealous. I have all his works, and even a couple of limited editions, but I don't have any essays or analyses and sadly no Necronomicon. Got to keep an eye out for some of those.

[Zenos]

I'm so jealous. I have all his works, and even a couple of limited editions, but I don't have any essays or analyses and sadly no Necronomicon. Got to keep an eye out for some of those.

heres where I ordered that one Necronomicon at that has stories and essays and such:


http://catalog.chaosium.com/product_info.php?products_id=54