Why do some guys have a "nice guy" mentality?

[indoxyl]

I've been seeing this SO often on facebook, reddit, here.

The "nice guy" assumes that the guy the girl he likes is dating is shit

The "nice guy" assumes that there are only two types of people.

Type one: Nice guys that will be at your beck and call and will bring you flowers and hold your hand and not try to have sex with you

Type two: jerks that are going to cheat on you and treat you like shit.

Where did this mentality come from? why is there no middle ground?

There's WAY too many guys that think this way and it really needs to stop

[Flapjack]

I think it is similar to blaming the friendzone :)

[Jinglebottom]

There's no such thing as the friendzone - just a man who can't accept the fact that his crush is not interested in pursuing a relationship with him. Same for the typical "nice guy" who feels like women somehow owe him a relationship, for whatever reason he can come up with.

[jamie_n5]

I am gay but would never treat anyone like that. I love my girl friends and my boy friends and would never intentionally disrespect either. People can be so cruel.

[Uniquemind]

I've been seeing this SO often on facebook, reddit, here.

The "nice guy" assumes that the guy the girl he likes is dating is shit

The "nice guy" assumes that there are only two types of people.

Type one: Nice guys that will be at your beck and call and will bring you flowers and hold your hand and not try to have sex with you

Type two: jerks that are going to cheat on you and treat you like shit.

Where did this mentality come from? why is there no middle ground?

There's WAY too many guys that think this way and it really needs to stop

Maybe it is a side effect of culture telling society and in media (Disney for example) over simplifying social dynamics being in a black or white context.

I think it's a little misogynistic because I always get the sense that "nice guys" always mentally picture getting a girl as some end goal prize if X, Y, and Z are done.

[ClaraWho]

'Nice guy' comes from the whole 'girls like a guy who is bad for them'. There are girls who will date guys who appear damaged/dangerous, often due to their own psychological issues. You must have seen or know at least one person like that?

So it's not a 'two-factor model', but rather a reference to a very specific circumstance in which a girl continuously dates a guy who cheats on her, for example.

Though we all see guys who think they are god's gift to women, think the sun shines out their butt, and for those 'nice guys' the title is ironic. They're just insecure imposters.

~ Clara

[RallyingPoint]

I think that mentality has derived from years of societal pressure on teenagers to act one way or another. Nonetheless, it doesn't justify anyone to act in that "jerk mentality".

I'd also like to point out that most times there is a middle ground in most people, oftentimes it just takes getting to know them. People are complex and diverse and crazy ;)

All that said, I wish you luck in the future and hope that you don't have to deal with the jerks.

[pageninetynine]

Nice guys act nice because they think that that's what attracts girls. If you say no to them they can get very creepy. They start to be all like "Why isn't this working on you...?"

[StoppingTom]

The "date me i'm a nice guy" thing is funny to me because it's like, grats mate your best quality is you aren't a shit person no one owes you any poon for that

[Uniquemind]

Nice guys act nice because they think that that's what attracts girls. If you say no to them they can get very creepy. They start to be all like "Why isn't this working on you...?"

The "date me i'm a nice guy" thing is funny to me because it's like, grats mate your best quality is you aren't a shit person no one owes you any poon for that

And I think that's a side effect of parents telling their boys at a very young impressionable age that "it's the inside that counts".

It's twisted, but you can begin to kinda see how some male minds might hit puberty and then take that rationale and then only after-the-fact figure out that what their parents said isn't always true.

It is true in an idealistic sense that what "personality" is going to determine the longevity of a relationship, but what kindles a romance in the beginning, especially after hollywood's influence, is lust which is a very basic emotion that needs no explaining because it is shallow.


There's a reality that does not match the premise regarding attraction, and that is really a level 2 or level 3 social dynamic.

One thing I've noticed is that parents don't talk to their children about flirting or attraction much, nor the unjustices that happen with rejection. Often times the older kids, tweens, teens (or whatever age person it is) doesn't want to discuss it with their folks.

It's often a blank, figure it out yourself, situation and many guys get jaded, and in response hyper-focused and meaningful about how important getting a girl (usually a particular girl) is.


This hyper-focused on woo'ing a girl, is creepy to said girl because of the level of intensity.

I've read a lot of rejection posts here and elsewhere, and I see that the guy always feels like he never felt he was fairly evaluated as a romantic interest, because he never got the first date.

What guys fail to realize is that being evaluated occurs even before you meet regarding word of mouth reputation (looks, hygiene, smell, and personality, whether a guy has loose lips/gossips) among other things.

[Tesserax]

Nice guys like myself get disappointed when we see girls being treated poorly. We're quite sensitive you see, less masculine than our alpha counterparts, and we feel hurt to see friends or good people get hurt, even if it has nothing to do with us. Obviously there is middle ground, and we do know there is a middle ground, but we focus on the good and the bad, the extremes, and we can't fathom why the brutes are chosen over somebody with virtues. Middle ground people tend to include myself, though I do lean more to the nice guy side I suppose, and I know many middle ground people as well. These people we do not have a problem with, so we don't talk about them much. Our issue is when the asshole gets with the nicest girl in the school, treats her badly, and she still hangs onto him like a puppet to her master. We empathize, but are conflicted from her choice to hang on.

[Desynchronized]

Nice guys like myself get disappointed when we see girls being treated poorly. We're quite sensitive you see, less masculine than our alpha counterparts, and we feel hurt to see friends or good people get hurt, even if it has nothing to do with us. Obviously there is middle ground, and we do know there is a middle ground, but we focus on the good and the bad, the extremes, and we can't fathom why the brutes are chosen over somebody with virtues. Middle ground people tend to include myself, though I do lean more to the nice guy side I suppose, and I know many middle ground people as well. These people we do not have a problem with, so we don't talk about them much. Our issue is when the asshole gets with the nicest girl in the school, treats her badly, and she still hangs onto him like a puppet to her master. We empathize, but are conflicted from her choice to hang on.

i agree with him.

[Uniquemind]

Nice guys like myself get disappointed when we see girls being treated poorly. We're quite sensitive you see, less masculine than our alpha counterparts, and we feel hurt to see friends or good people get hurt, even if it has nothing to do with us. Obviously there is middle ground, and we do know there is a middle ground, but we focus on the good and the bad, the extremes, and we can't fathom why the brutes are chosen over somebody with virtues. Middle ground people tend to include myself, though I do lean more to the nice guy side I suppose, and I know many middle ground people as well. These people we do not have a problem with, so we don't talk about them much. Our issue is when the asshole gets with the nicest girl in the school, treats her badly, and she still hangs onto him like a puppet to her master. We empathize, but are conflicted from her choice to hang on.

When you have a situation like that though where maybe an asshole guy has already broken the ice with a girl though and she's continuing to be with him there are other dynamics at play.

It's hard for some to break off a relationship even an abusive one, and that's the dynamic at play in those types of relationship in my opinion. It's different for guys looking inwards who didn't accomplish stage one of establishing a relationship with the girl.

So it's subtle but at that point it's not an apples to apple comparison at that point.

Maybe there have been abortions or sexual abuse behind the scenes etc...


I will also say this in general regardless of gender too. I've noticed that there exist some really "nice" people out there, that for whatever reason have trouble finding their own voice and power, and sometimes find themselves the non-dominant position in a relationship and they get hurt. Blame it on naïveté or outright psychological manipulation of the abusive party, but that's what explains situations like this for me.


But let me end this on a question:

By virtues what do you mean? Do those virtues have a double-edged negative effect on guys regarding how comfortable you are flirting with women to create the right mood and light atmosphere? Do nice guys overestimate how sensitive women are in a way that is interpreted as pompous or arrogant?

[Tesserax]

When you have a situation like that though where maybe an asshole guy has already broken the ice with a girl though and she's continuing to be with him there are other dynamics at play.

It's hard for some to break off a relationship even an abusive one, and that's the dynamic at play in those types of relationship in my opinion. It's different for guys looking inwards who didn't accomplish stage one of establishing a relationship with the girl.

So it's subtle but at that point it's not an apples to apple comparison at that point.

Maybe there have been abortions or sexual abuse behind the scenes etc...


I will also say this in general regardless of gender too. I've noticed that there exist some really "nice" people out there, that for whatever reason have trouble finding their own voice and power, and sometimes find themselves the non-dominant position in a relationship and they get hurt. Blame it on naïveté or outright psychological manipulation of the abusive party, but that's what explains situations like this for me.


But let me end this on a question:

By virtues what do you mean? Do those virtues have a double-edged negative effect on guys regarding how comfortable you are flirting with women to create the right mood and light atmosphere? Do nice guys overestimate how sensitive women are in a way that is interpreted as pompous or arrogant?

Generally I see myself as a more caring individual. I do have my flaws, and I see and work to try and improve that. By virtues, I simply mean good qualities in a person. Pride, arrogance, and things alike do not count in my opinion. One's mannerism is the more obvious one, with more subtle virtues being less often seen, such as ability to compassionate. It can come off that good mannerism may seem pompous, especially in the modern day, and I suppose that is the very double edged sword of which you speak. However, I find that regardless of what people think, I will continue to behave and act as well and kindly towards others, whether the response is nothing, or a simple smile.

Another thing is that when it comes to women, I at the very least see a relationship as something more than just fun, and I try to get to know the other as a person and a friend. Perhaps it is our tendency to want companionship more than anything that is our downfall, perhaps it is my own. Especially in teenagers, it seems that the majority of us are controlled by hormones and instinctive urges to reproduce, so sex becomes quite often the focus of younger relationships. It is the more mature, and therefore few, people who seek what we do. I believe "nice guys" and nice people in general are more mature, and especially in adolescent years far fewer in number.

So overall, I think the problem extends both ways, to both nice guys and nice girls. Tell me you've never heard a girl question why a guy is "with that bitch" despite her being shallow, cruel, and treating him like some sort of toy. An extreme example, but I'm sure it rang a bell. This is literally the female equivalent of a nice guy, the girl who can't stand to see guys fall for girls whose extent of anatomical knowledge only goes as far as the the penis and the vagina. In the end, it's a conflict of maturity: as there are fewer mature people in younger years, we often have a hard time finding each other, so we are frustrated when we see others "doing" relationships the wrong way, or what we believe and feel to be the wrong way, yet cannot seem to find ourselves a correct partner to truly cherish and love.

[Uniquemind]

Generally I see myself as a more caring individual. I do have my flaws, and I see and work to try and improve that. By virtues, I simply mean good qualities in a person. Pride, arrogance, and things alike do not count in my opinion. One's mannerism is the more obvious one, with more subtle virtues being less often seen, such as ability to compassionate. It can come off that good mannerism may seem pompous, especially in the modern day, and I suppose that is the very double edged sword of which you speak. However, I find that regardless of what people think, I will continue to behave and act as well and kindly towards others, whether the response is nothing, or a simple smile.

Another thing is that when it comes to women, I at the very least see a relationship as something more than just fun, and I try to get to know the other as a person and a friend. Perhaps it is our tendency to want companionship more than anything that is our downfall, perhaps it is my own. Especially in teenagers, it seems that the majority of us are controlled by hormones and instinctive urges to reproduce, so sex becomes quite often the focus of younger relationships. It is the more mature, and therefore few, people who seek what we do. I believe "nice guys" and nice people in general are more mature, and especially in adolescent years far fewer in number.

So overall, I think the problem extends both ways, to both nice guys and nice girls. Tell me you've never heard a girl question why a guy is "with that bitch" despite her being shallow, cruel, and treating him like some sort of toy. An extreme example, but I'm sure it rang a bell. This is literally the female equivalent of a nice guy, the girl who can't stand to see guys fall for girls whose extent of anatomical knowledge only goes as far as the the penis and the vagina. In the end, it's a conflict of maturity: as there are fewer mature people in younger years, we often have a hard time finding each other, so we are frustrated when we see others "doing" relationships the wrong way, or what we believe and feel to be the wrong way, yet cannot seem to find ourselves a correct partner to truly cherish and love.

Yeah the drama on both sides is bad.

For some even young adults (referencing some romance famous youtubers drama and testimonals some well known youtubers have given in recent months regarding relationships) it doesn't seem to necessarily get better with age either, mental issues, drugs, alcohol, seem to plague and add to toxic relationships.

It's like you said it ultimately comes down to maturity for the individuals involved.

The OP is right at it's core message guys just need to learn to move on from rejection, because that's life and stop overthinking why person A is with person B, it is a pointless thought-pathway. It's a question they can't answer and it makes one marinate in self-pity or sadness and doesn't help them grow as an individual.

[Babs]

If someone holds a door open for you, it's only polite to s their d.