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View Full Version : Turkish military claims control over country through coup under attempt


sqishy
July 15th, 2016, 04:27 PM
Here I return because I happen to be here when I hear of the event very recently happening. (Excuse my news coverage style, if it helps.)

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From The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara:


Action taken to ‘reinstate constitutional order, human rights and freedoms’, say armed forces

• Turkish PM Binali Yıldırım says security forces are tackling situation

• Military aircraft seen flying over capital and gunfire reported

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[US relevance:]

John Kerry, the secretary of state, said he had heard the reports but could not comment. “I hope there will be stability and peace and continuity within Turkey,” he said while visiting Moscow.

Ned Price, spokesperson for the National Security Council at the White House, said: “The president’s national security team has apprised him of the unfolding situation in Turkey. The president will continue to receive regular updates.”

Turkey has the second biggest army in Nato after the US. It was a crucial ally during the cold war, although relations hit a bump in March 2003 when Turkey refused to let the US to invade Iraq from the north through Turkish territory.

Now they are military partners, albeit with significant political differences, in the fight against Islamic State. Last year Turkey agreed to let US warplanes and armed drones use the Incirlik air base, just 60 miles from the northwest Syrian border, to carry out raids against Isis. The aircraft had previously flown from Iraq or Arab allies such as Jordan.

Loss of the Turkish base would be a severe blow to the ongoing effort against Isis, especially after recent terrorist attacks within Belgium, France, Turkey and the US itself.

Turkey, which by the end of 2015 was hosting 2.5 million refugees, mostly from neighbouring Syria, has objected to US support for Kurdish forces operating in northern Syria against Isis. Washington has said it draws a clear distinction between the PKK, a foreign terrorist organisation, and the Syrian Kurds, whom it sees as one of many groups fighting Isis.

Mark Toner, deputy spokesperson for the US State Department, said last month: “Turkey is playing an important role with regard to Syria, with regard to the conflict there, both from the Assad regime as well as with Daesh . So I don’t want to underplay that. But they have, as many countries do within the coalition, sometimes different priorities, different ideas about how to go about that, and that’s something we’re in constant dialogue with them about and working to coordinate better.”
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The Turkish state broadcaster TRT has now gone off air, say the Reuters news agency and sources in Turkey.

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From [I]Reuters http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-security-primeminister-idUSKCN0ZV2HK:

If [this coup is] successful, the overthrow of President Tayyip Erdogan, who has ruled Turkey since 2003, would be one of the biggest shifts in power in the Middle East in years, transforming one of the most important U.S. allies in the region.
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Airports were shut, access to Internet social media sites was cut off, and troops sealed off the two bridges over the Bosphorus in Istanbul, one of which was still lit up red, white and blue in solidarity with victims of the Bastille Day truck attack in France a day earlier.
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TRT state television announced a countrywide curfew. An announcer read a statement on the orders of the military that accused the government of eroding the democratic and secular rule of law. The country would be run by a "peace council" that would ensure the safety of the population, the statement said.
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The country has been at war with Kurdish separatists, and has suffered numerous bombing and shooting attacks this year, including an attack two weeks ago by Islamists at Istanbul's main airport that killed more than 40 people.
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From The Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying-jets-and-gunfire-heard-in-ankara1/:



State TV channel says the country is now under the control of a "peace council" that will ensure the safety of the population.

It states that democratic and secular rule of law has been eroded by the Erdogan government.


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From the New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/16/world/europe/military-attempts-coup-in-turkey-prime-minister-says.html?_r=0:

ISTANBUL — The prime minister of Turkey said on Friday night that factions of the military had attempted a coup. There were sharply conflicting statements about who was in control of the country, a NATO member, which has been convulsed by military takeovers at least three times over the past half-century.

“Some people illegally undertook an illegal action outside of the chain of command,” Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said in comments broadcast on NTV, a private television channel. “The government elected by the people remains in charge. This government will only go when the people say so.”

“Turkish armed forces seized the rule of the country completely with the aim of reinstalling the constitutional order, democracy, human rights and freedoms, to make rule of law pervade again, to re-establish the ruined public order,” the statement quoted by DHA said. “All the international agreements and promises are valid. We hope our good relations with all global countries goes on.”

The state-run Anadolu News Agency said hostages had been taken at military headquarters in Ankara, the capital, including the chief of staff.

Military forces shut two bridges over the Bosporus in Istanbul, and fighter jets were seen flying over Istanbul and Ankara, the capital. The main airport in Istanbul was reported to have halted flights.

The whereabouts of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Islamist politician who has dominated politics in Turkey for many years and sought to establish a firm control over the military, was not immediately clear. He was not in the capital but there were conflicting accounts about whether he was in the country.

Ilnur Cevik, an aide to Mr. Erdogan, was reached by telephone Friday night and said he would not discuss where the president is because, “these lines are being listened to.”

Mr. Cevik said he heard reports that clashes were underway in Ankara near headquarters of Turkey’s intelligence agency. “We’re not really sure what’s going on but there seems to be an uprising in the military.”

Since the founding of modern Turkey in 1923 the military has staged coups in 1960, 1971 and 1980 – and intervened in 1997.

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Here's a link on the same event from Aljazeera http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/07/turkey-military-blocks-bridges-istanbul-160715195444742.html, for sake of an extra angle.

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Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt
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[Will update this as time goes by.]

Vlerchan
July 15th, 2016, 04:36 PM
Calling it now that it's the Kemalist wing in which case I wouldn't be quick to claim it's a negative thing.

sqishy
July 15th, 2016, 04:42 PM
Calling it now that it's the Kemalist wing in which case I wouldn't be quick to claim it's a negative thing.

I wasn't assuming it to be negative either, taking what I have heard and checked on the now-recent political state of the country.

For sake of my ignorance in political history and relevant current affairs (I am mostly the messenger here), what is the Kemalist wing?

Porpoise101
July 15th, 2016, 04:44 PM
I just heard about this! I think it was going to happen ever since Erdogan struggled to create a parliamentary coalition. Also the fact that 2 wars are making the country unstable.

german_boy
July 15th, 2016, 04:52 PM
https://twitter.com/Alex_Panetta/status/754064917238419456:
NBC's reporting that a senior US military source says Erdogan was refused landing rights in Istanbul and may be seeking to land in Germany.

Hahaha. He firstly tries to take proceedings against a German artist (Jan Böhmermann, he wrote a satirical poem about Erdogan who felt offended by it). Now he wants asylum?

The military is known for an anti-Kurdish attitude. Even more anti-Kurdish than Erdogan.

There's a curfew while Erdogan still holds onto his position as the president. Generally speaking, it's a confusing situation.

Judean Zealot
July 15th, 2016, 04:59 PM
I was not expecting that. Hopefully it is a sign of better things to come.

sqishy
July 15th, 2016, 05:33 PM
The military is known for an anti-Kurdish attitude. Even more anti-Kurdish than Erdogan.

I'm currently looking for the military's statement.


There's a curfew while Erdogan still holds onto his position as the president. Generally speaking, it's a confusing situation.

Funny how we're not confused about that fact currently! Hopefully reports will be verified and we'll fully see where this is going, as in what the military will do next and how Erdogan and Co. will react.

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EDIT:

Here are sections I've found of the Turkish Armed Forces' statement issued during this event
(I've used google translate to make it quick, so hopefully there aren't too many subtle/less subtle mistakes.)
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"Turkish Armed Forces, the constitutional order, democracy, ensure the repetition of human rights and freedoms and facilities, enabling dominate again the rule of law in the country, deteriorating public security order of confiscated whole administration of the country in order to ensure again.

All international agreements and our commitment remains [eçerlilig]*. with all countries of the world, we hope to continue our good relations."

"These circumstances and TSK established supreme with the leadership of our nation with extraordinary self-sacrifice under the circumstances" Peace at home, peace in the world "principle continues its movement to the nation's survival, to eliminate de facto obstacles to the rule of law, to prevent corruption, terrorism, and to combat all forms of terrorism."
________________

[]*: No idea what that means.

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The Wikipedia link (should be easier to work with, taking its updating and list of references):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt

Judean Zealot
July 15th, 2016, 06:07 PM
Paraxiom

The Kemalist wing Vlerchan is referring to are those who most align with the ideals of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk: basically secular nationalists. I concur with Vlerchan's judgement as well.

sqishy
July 15th, 2016, 06:13 PM
Paraxiom

The Kemalist wing Vlerchan is referring to are those who most align with the ideals of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk: basically secular nationalists. I concur with Vlerchan's judgement as well.

Thanks for the reply.

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Been seeing reports on twitter of a military jet shooting down a helicopter over Ankara, and that some coup sections are being arrested by police or surrendering, but there are other conflicting reports and some could be intentionally misleading, not sure really.

Sure there will be much more clearer information out by tomorrow, on if this will ultimately be a failed coup, or not (hopefully, for me).

german_boy
July 15th, 2016, 06:44 PM
The coup was allegedly defeated.

Meanwhile, there'S a bombing on the parliament.

Flapjack
July 15th, 2016, 07:14 PM
I do not like the Turkish Government but I am pretty sure that whoever is doing a coup is worse.

Vlerchan
July 15th, 2016, 07:20 PM
I concur with Vlerchan's judgement as well.
Unfortunately, though, the claim of the Turkish government is that those involved in the coup are Gulenist, which from a quick google search, I can't say I'm too keen on.

I do not like the Turkish Government but I am pretty sure that whoever is doing a coup is worse.
How so?

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Edit.

It seems like the coup is actually over or at least coming to a close, Edrogan has landed in Istanbul, which I can't imagine would be happening if the case was different.

Edit2:

Timur Kuran (https://twitter.com/timurkuran) is a good account to watch for updated. Notable is his claim that Gulenists are distancing themselves.

Porpoise101
July 15th, 2016, 11:46 PM
I expect that this failed coup is going to actually result in more centralization and more power for Erdogan. Turkey is going to be even more despotic... :(

And I bet that he will use this as an excuse to slaughter more Kurds as well.

Vlerchan
July 16th, 2016, 05:20 AM
I expect that this failed coup is going to actually result in more centralization and more power for Erdogan. Turkey is going to be even more despotic... :(

And I bet that he will use this as an excuse to slaughter more Kurds as well.
I'm expecting the same. There is reports he might bring back capital punishment and then - I imagine - retroactively sentence those associated with the coup attempt.

Interesting development is that their prime minister stated that a country that stands by Gulen will be considered at war with Turkey. It's worth noting that Gulen is currently living in the United States. I hope the United States tell them to fuck off.

Helicopter just landed in Greece too - and it's crew are asking for political asylum.

Leprous
July 16th, 2016, 06:49 AM
Oh boy. If this actually succeeded it would be semi-good? Now though, shit's about to hit the fan.

Porpoise101
July 16th, 2016, 10:18 AM
Already 2000+ judges are now out of a job.
The purge has begun.

Also, 8 coup leaders landed in Greece, applied for asylum.

DVDan19
July 16th, 2016, 10:23 AM
Frankly, I was more for the army because I hate Erdogan. But it turns out Erdogan got back the control of his country...More than 190 deaths and more than 400 arrests which are probably going to add to the death count because Erdogan wants to put back the death sentence.
So...yeah, kinda disappointed with the ending of that coup.

Jinglebottom
July 16th, 2016, 04:52 PM
Let the Turks enjoy their precious Islamic dictatorship. LOL!

Porpoise101
July 17th, 2016, 10:30 AM
Let the Turks enjoy their precious Islamic dictatorship. LOL!
One man is easier to deal with than a military junta.

Stronk Serb
July 17th, 2016, 09:31 PM
One man is easier to deal with than a military junta.

Most if not all Turkish military coup leaders returned the power to the civilian administration after a few years of restoring order and democratic elections were put in place. I think it's sort of a good way to stop centralisation that birders despotism. Also thus coup was staged to conduct a purge in the bureaucracy, the army and probably police. Who the fuck attempts a coup when the state leadership is not present in the capital? Wish our generals had the balls to attempt a coup against our PM. The police would support it because their lives were made pretty miserable too.

Hyper
July 17th, 2016, 09:58 PM
I have some Turkish friends... And I was on my computer around the time the so called coup started.

Just a few hours in my friends were thinking that it's a false flag thing to give Erdogan more support and justification for further purging the judical system and the military.

Basically it was over in a night and by morning Erdogans government had a list of over 2700+ judges that were ''involved in the coup'' - that is complete political cleansing. Erdogan even outright said that the coup was a ''gift from Allah'' and even said in, not directly quoting here, that it was a gift because it would allow him to further ''cleanse'' or purge the military (was the translation I saw on Reuters I think)... So yeah.

Coincidentally one of my Turkish friends is from a family involved in the Gulen movement and if I am to believe him it is a movement that wants to modernise and reform islam, while Erdogan is an outright islamist.

Flapjack
July 17th, 2016, 11:16 PM
I have some Turkish friends... And I was on my computer around the time the so called coup started.

Just a few hours in my friends were thinking that it's a false flag thing to give Erdogan more support and justification for further purging the judical system and the military.

Basically it was over in a night and by morning Erdogans government had a list of over 2700+ judges that were ''involved in the coup'' - that is complete political cleansing. Erdogan even outright said that the coup was a ''gift from Allah'' and even said in, not directly quoting here, that it was a gift because it would allow him to further ''cleanse'' or purge the military (was the translation I saw on Reuters I think)... So yeah.

Coincidentally one of my Turkish friends is from a family involved in the Gulen movement and if I am to believe him it is a movement that wants to modernise and reform islam, while Erdogan is an outright islamist.
Doubt it, Turkey has a long history of coups like this.

Porpoise101
July 18th, 2016, 12:06 AM
Also thus coup was staged to conduct a purge in the bureaucracy, the army and probably police. Who the fuck attempts a coup when the state leadership is not present in the capital?
The coup could have been staged. I've been reading a bit, some rumors say that it was the CIA. Erdogan has put out a narrative that the Gulenists did it, to me that is almost certainly a lie because he has a vested interest to get an excuse to persecute them. Gulen himself suggested that the coup could have been Erdogan and the AKP's plan to get more power, it also seems possible. I would think that it is possible to conduct a coup outside of the capital because it would be a good way to catch the leaders divided. That being said, it would require immense coordination.

In moments of panic and chaos, people always tend to choose the most stable and calming choice. Since the legitimate government had a presence, and Erdogan enjoys a degree of popular support, many Turks chose the familiar system. Erdogan played it smart and made his presence clear. If he had disappeared or died, the population would have sided with the military.

Edit: Apparently Erdogan has called the US to extradite Gulen. The US won't take him seriously probably since they don't really like Erdogan. So maybe we will see some assassin action with Gulen! To me this feels like a mini version of the Trotsky-Stalin struggle.

Stronk Serb
July 18th, 2016, 11:48 AM
The coup could have been staged. I've been reading a bit, some rumors say that it was the CIA. Erdogan has put out a narrative that the Gulenists did it, to me that is almost certainly a lie because he has a vested interest to get an excuse to persecute them. Gulen himself suggested that the coup could have been Erdogan and the AKP's plan to get more power, it also seems possible. I would think that it is possible to conduct a coup outside of the capital because it would be a good way to catch the leaders divided. That being said, it would require immense coordination.

In moments of panic and chaos, people always tend to choose the most stable and calming choice. Since the legitimate government had a presence, and Erdogan enjoys a degree of popular support, many Turks chose the familiar system. Erdogan played it smart and made his presence clear. If he had disappeared or died, the population would have sided with the military.

Edit: Apparently Erdogan has called the US to extradite Gulen. The US won't take him seriously probably since they don't really like Erdogan. So maybe we will see some assassin action with Gulen! To me this feels like a mini version of the Trotsky-Stalin struggle.

The coup looks pretty amateurish, I mean tanks had no infantry support. It was said Erdogan was in flight during the whole thing, a helicopter was shot down over Ankara and nobody bothered to shoot down Erdogan. It smells of staging.

sqishy
July 18th, 2016, 03:36 PM
I expect that this failed coup is going to actually result in more centralization and more power for Erdogan. Turkey is going to be even more despotic... :(

And I bet that he will use this as an excuse to slaughter more Kurds as well.

It was reasonable to guess things would be even worse after a failed coup, rather than if none happened at all. Here we go..

The coup could have been staged. I've been reading a bit, some rumors say that it was the CIA. Erdogan has put out a narrative that the Gulenists did it, to me that is almost certainly a lie because he has a vested interest to get an excuse to persecute them. Gulen himself suggested that the coup could have been Erdogan and the AKP's plan to get more power, it also seems possible. I would think that it is possible to conduct a coup outside of the capital because it would be a good way to catch the leaders divided. That being said, it would require immense coordination.


The coup looks pretty amateurish, I mean tanks had no infantry support. It was said Erdogan was in flight during the whole thing, a helicopter was shot down over Ankara and nobody bothered to shoot down Erdogan. It smells of staging.


It did appear to be more ambitious than rational when I heard that only a section of the military was doing this. It's possible.

It's quite a good plan to have excuse to persecute the Gulenists. Why would the US get involved? (Am wondering, as I'm still not fully 'read' with this event's background.)



In moments of panic and chaos, people always tend to choose the most stable and calming choice. Since the legitimate government had a presence, and Erdogan enjoys a degree of popular support, many Turks chose the familiar system. Erdogan played it smart and made his presence clear. If he had disappeared or died, the population would have sided with the military.


Unfortunately Erdogan is popular yes, apparent by the number of people following his 'orders' as it were through that FaceTime thing.

Vlerchan
July 19th, 2016, 08:44 PM
Turkey’s post-coup crackdown took a more sinister turn on Tuesday after tens of thousands of teachers were fired and all the country’s university deans were told they faced suspension.

The licences of 21,000 staff working in private schools were revoked, more than 15,000 employees at the education ministry were sacked, and the state-run higher education council demanded the resignation of 1,577 university deans.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/19/turkey-demands-resignation-of-every-university-dean-in-country-a/

I believe the total numbers purged stands at about 500,000.

It will without a doubt create a weaker state in the long-run. But then I don't imagine it's a good thing to have a failed state as a buffer to the problems the Middle East exports to its neighbours.

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Lol'd reading this just after.

If he wins the presidency, Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump would seek to purge the federal government of officials appointed by Democratic President Barack Obama and could ask Congress to pass legislation making it easier to fire public workers, Trump ally, Chris Christie, said on Tuesday.

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Election_2016/mobile&Theme=39&Whitelabel=True

If the last 12 months have led to one thing it's me viewing populism - in whatever form - with the deepest disgust.