At least 84 dead after truck rams into crowd in Nice, France

[sqishy]

I'll get right to it.

From The Guardian's website:

At least 30 people were killed and 100 injured in the French Riviera city of Nice late on Thursday when a truck ploughed into crowds watching a fireworks display on France's Bastille Day national holiday in a criminal attack, a local official said.

The driver, who drove at high speed for over 100 meters (yards) along the famed Promenade des Anglais seafront before hitting the mass of spectators, was shot dead [...]

From Reuters:

A witness has told the Associated Press that he saw the truck driver emerge from the vehicle with a gun and start shooting after ploughing into the crowd.

Wassim Bouhlel, a Nice native who spoke to the agency near the city’s Promenade du Paillon, said: “There was carnage on the road. Bodies everywhere.”

Over 100 people have also been injured.

- - - - - - - -

Quoted links at:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/14/nice-bastille-day-france-attack-promenade-des-anglais-vehicle

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-crash-idUSKCN0ZU2K7

Other Links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/14/truck-crashes-into-crowd-at-bastille-day-celebrations-in-nice2/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/14/truck-crashes-bastille-day-crowd-nice-france/

- - - - - - - -

I'm not the best when it comes to news coverage, but I wanted to get this out fast while I was here.

[DVDan19]

Yup...over 70 deaths... I'm french and I'm sick of those bastards that attack innocent people, children, who were enjoying an awesome Bastille Day, for the sake of a lost cause... Also I have friends that were there and some of them I don't even know if they are still alive or not...
I was very happy that we went through the Euro Football championship, and I'm not even surprised by what happened in Nice. And that's the problem. 3 years, 3 attacks. 0 resignations from our politics that govern us. "Moderate" support in the war in the Middle-East against ISIS. 2 "légion d'honneur" medals (best french medal) given to two countries that support terrorism (Saudi Arabia and Turkey).

Oh and I hate those medias that keep showing us images and videos from what happened, with dead bodies everywhere. That's disgusting. Just to make audience...same for facebook or twitter just to get some likes or shares.

Yeah, my first reaction is pretty angry, mainly against those that think that killing innocent people is the best way to achieve their goal, which is absolutely not true, we just stand stronger and stronger...

VIVE LA FRANCE !!!

[mattsmith48]

Wow this is a shitty year for France they never seem to catch a break. Someone should try to stop ISIS from doing shit like this.

[Exocet]

Yup...over 70 deaths... I'm french and I'm sick of those bastards that attack innocent people, children, who were enjoying an awesome Bastille Day, for the sake of a lost cause... Also I have friends that were there and some of them I don't even know if they are still alive or not...
I was very happy that we went through the Euro Football championship, and I'm not even surprised by what happened in Nice. And that's the problem. 3 years, 3 attacks. 0 resignations from our politics that govern us. "Moderate" support in the war in the Middle-East against ISIS. 2 "légion d'honneur" medals (best french medal) given to two countries that support terrorism (Saudi Arabia and Turkey).

Oh and I hate those medias that keep showing us images and videos from what happened, with dead bodies everywhere. That's disgusting. Just to make audience...same for facebook or twitter just to get some likes or shares.

Yeah, my first reaction is pretty angry, mainly against those that think that killing innocent people is the best way to achieve their goal, which is absolutely not true, we just stand stronger and stronger...

VIVE LA FRANCE !!!

No,we do not stand stronger and stronger.....
We do not need 'muh my thoughts' bla bla bla. We need to act violently to protect our country and citizens even if it means restricting freedom or locking up people in jail,stop oppening our borders to those that hate us so much. When will you realize that they are a threat ?
We will mourn all those dead,will forget everything in a week til the next attack and the usual 'muuuuh my thoughts,RIP,Marseillaise bla bla bla'.
Ah.... this is called being 'culturally enriched'. Diversity is our strenght,HAHAHA,see what 'diversity' brings to you.

[kev99]

No,we do not stand stronger and stronger.....
We do not need 'muh my thoughts' bla bla bla. We need to act violently to protect our country and citizens even if it means restricting freedom or locking up people in jail,stop oppening our borders to those that hate us so much. When will you realize that they are a threat ?
We will mourn all those dead,will forget everything in a week til the next attack and the usual 'muuuuh my thoughts,RIP,Marseillaise bla bla bla'.
Ah.... this is called being 'culturally enriched'. Diversity is our strenght,HAHAHA,see what 'diversity' brings to you.
It also primarily mean stop meddling and support dictators in those countries, who finance and fuel extremists, and create oppressive situations at the root of terrorism.

Oh, and maybe we should wage a war, a good, real, full scale war. Like the one in Iraq. Or maybe the one in Afghanistan. Both were definitely very good at stabilizing the international situation, clearly.

Let's remember why France celebrates July 14th. That day, they took the Bastille, a prison where the king was sending people as he pleased. A jolly happy era with mostly closed borders, restricted freedom, and when violent acts were the standard answer to popular protests. Strangely, the 1789 population didn't seem to enjoy it that much. Disturbing, isn't it?

[Exocet]

It also primarily mean stop meddling and support dictators in those countries, who finance and fuel extremists, and create oppressive situations at the root of terrorism.

Oh, and maybe we should wage a war, a good, real, full scale war. Like the one in Iraq. Or maybe the one in Afghanistan. Both were definitely very good at stabilizing the international situation, clearly.


I agree,it's time to tell the US to stop supporting terrorist groups all over the world. (but calling them 'freedom fighters' or 'free syrian army'.)
Time to stop cooperating with Saudi Arabia and Qatar,two sponsors of terrorism al over the world.

Let's remember why France celebrates July 14th. That day, they took the Bastille, a prison where the king was sending people as he pleased.

in 1789,only seven people were jailed in the Bastille. 1 criminal,2 mentally ill people and 4 counterfeiters...
The King was even thinking about closing it as it was costing too much and that the prison was always empty...... there was too much guards.

A jolly happy era with mostly closed borders, restricted freedom, and when violent acts were the standard answer to popular protests. Strangely, the 1789 population didn't seem to enjoy it that much. Disturbing, isn't it?

Strangely,a lot of royalist rebellions break up all over France,the most notable one was the one in Vendée..... Maybe it wasn't that bad under the monarchy. Oh... and 'Liberté,Egalité,Fraternité' is entire BS,just read about the genocide in Vendée...

[Sailor Mars]

Fucking horrible... 84 dead including children, and a ton more wounded. Why the fuck is this shit happening??? As much as I hate to say it (no offense), but Exocet is right. Something needs to happen because this is happening way to often.

RIP

[Jinglebottom]

I bet the mosque that guy attended was a Saudi-funded one.

RIP to all the victims and a speedy recovery to the injured. What a disgusting world we live in.

[Melodic]

It's gotten to the point that this doesn't even surprise me anymore. THAT is bad.

My heart goes out to all of the victims and their loved ones.

[dxcxdzv]

Hm.

May I mention that there is at the moment no clue regarding the motive?

[Vlerchan]

May I mention that there is at the moment no clue regarding the motive?
This.

Neighbours also stated he is in the middle of a divorce and seemed irreligious. There's no reason to presume that him being from North Africa is anything more than an unfortunate coincidence at the moment.

[rioo]

If someone mentions that Islam is a religion of peace after this, he should be sent to ISIS.

And why?

[Flapjack]

If someone mentions that Islam is a religion of peace after this, he should be sent to ISIS.
This is offensive and wrong. Islam has over 1 billion followers, if they was all terrorists, don't you think we would be in trouble? Most Muslims are very nice kind decent people! Do we judge all Christians because of the actions of a few. This terrorist was a depressed loner and that is how it should be reported.

[Sailor Mars]

Neighbours also stated he is in the middle of a divorce and seemed irreligious. There's no reason to presume that him being from North Africa is anything more than an unfortunate coincidence at the moment.
Source?


May I mention that there is at the moment no clue regarding the motive?

He was a legal French citizen from Tunisia, and there's been no claim he was from any terrorist organization during the attack. Or at least that's what I read so far.

Also,
Let's please not turn this into a debate regarding religion and offensive comments. This is a thread reporting a horrific incident and shouldn't be tainted any further with arguing. Thank you.

[DVDan19]

No,we do not stand stronger and stronger.....
We do not need 'muh my thoughts' bla bla bla. We need to act violently to protect our country and citizens even if it means restricting freedom or locking up people in jail,stop oppening our borders to those that hate us so much. When will you realize that they are a threat ?
We will mourn all those dead,will forget everything in a week til the next attack and the usual 'muuuuh my thoughts,RIP,Marseillaise bla bla bla'.
Ah.... this is called being 'culturally enriched'. Diversity is our strenght,HAHAHA,see what 'diversity' brings to you.

Violence is not really solved by violence...and closing our borders seems a very very bad idea in a globalized world. Strengthening EU's borders is a better idea (thing that is already happening, they doubled the controls in Schengen's borders). And yes, sadly it is always the same thing "noo", then "je suis france" then life is good then boom then "noo".
Oh and diversity is awesome, I love to have new friends and discover that they are russians, swedish, nigerians, asians, etc... The only problem is these crazy-minded extremists.
Also, hate of the stranger is NOT the solution. This is what they want. Tensions in our own country. A divided country is easier to take over than a united country.


If someone mentions that Islam is a religion of peace after this, he should be sent to ISIS.


Islam is not a religion of war of violence anyways. In general, any religion wants peace. ISIS is NOT a religious terrorist organization. They pretend to be and they use it as an "excuse" to their acts. There is nothing religious in what they do or what they say. Allah never wanted so much people to die in his name. Just like I said earlier, they want to tear us apart, everybody against muslims (because amalgams happen, sadly).
So, Islam is not the problem, these guys that distort the reality in their advantage is the true problem.


Also, no terrorist organization claimed that attack yet. So nobody really knows for what purpose that guy charged the crowd.



So, for me, the best solution to be taken in short term, is reinforcing EU's borders (not every individual country alone), and seriously slowing down this migrant influx...

[Vlerchan]

Source?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/who-is-the-nice-terror-attacker-everything-we-know-so-far/

Earlier both Bloomberg and Reuters reporter that the divorce wasn't concluded but the Telegraph and BBC are reporting it has (I haven't recheckes BBG and Reuters).

[Stronk Serb]

And why?

This is offensive and wrong. Islam has over 1 billion followers, if they was all terrorists, don't you think we would be in trouble? Most Muslims are very nice kind decent people! Do we judge all Christians because of the actions of a few. This terrorist was a depressed loner and that is how it should be reported.

Violence is not really solved by violence...and closing our borders seems a very very bad idea in a globalized world. Strengthening EU's borders is a better idea (thing that is already happening, they doubled the controls in Schengen's borders). And yes, sadly it is always the same thing "noo", then "je suis france" then life is good then boom then "noo".
Oh and diversity is awesome, I love to have new friends and discover that they are russians, swedish, nigerians, asians, etc... The only problem is these crazy-minded extremists.
Also, hate of the stranger is NOT the solution. This is what they want. Tensions in our own country. A divided country is easier to take over than a united country.





Islam is not a religion of war of violence anyways. In general, any religion wants peace. ISIS is NOT a religious terrorist organization. They pretend to be and they use it as an "excuse" to their acts. There is nothing religious in what they do or what they say. Allah never wanted so much people to die in his name. Just like I said earlier, they want to tear us apart, everybody against muslims (because amalgams happen, sadly).
So, Islam is not the problem, these guys that distort the reality in their advantage is the true problem.


Also, no terrorist organization claimed that attack yet. So nobody really knows for what purpose that guy charged the crowd.



So, for me, the best solution to be taken in short term, is reinforcing EU's borders (not every individual country alone), and seriously slowing down this migrant influx...

There are a lot of Christians and Jews who are nice people, but there are bad folk. Islam is currently going through the witch hunt phase Christianity went through before the Enlightment era. Besides, their core texts are cakling for violence in several occasions, just like the other Abrahamic religions. It's not a religion of peace.

[sqishy]

DVDan19 mattsmith48

There is no indication that the attacker has any affiliation or liking to ISIL or not, so I feel this to be a jump to conclusions that we do not need, even if it turns out that the person is related to the organisation or is a sympathiser.

I'm taking this from what I said in the thread on the Orlando Shooting:

Just because ISIL declares responsibility for this, [I]does not mean that they did it.

All they need is someone to say something sounding like it is Islamic, or having some interest in their ideology, and if they attempt/succeed at an attack, they can claim responsibility.

The problem is that most of us then jump to thinking that ISIL did it just because they said so, and we're back to the problematic idea that ISIL happens to be the one and only active organisation in the past decade that is responsible for most terrorism events you hear about. It is not as simple as that!

I doubt that ISIL sent the perpetrator orders - even if they did, my point still holds. There is no one convenient enemy to assume all of this is coming from.

- - - - - - - -

Hm.

May I mention that there is at the moment no clue regarding the motive?

Exactly.

- - - - - - - -

No,we do not stand stronger and stronger.....
We do not need 'muh my thoughts' bla bla bla. We need to act violently to protect our country and citizens even if it means restricting freedom or locking up people in jail,stop oppening our borders to those that hate us so much. When will you realize that they are a threat ?

I'll take different routes in this recurring topic.

Is the PATRIOT Act a good example of something you want to see happen?


Ah.... this is called being 'culturally enriched'. Diversity is our strenght,HAHAHA,see what 'diversity' brings to you.

Cultural diversity is not extremism/terrorism/etc by any logical necessity I know of. Explain how they equate.

- - - - - - - -

If someone mentions that Islam is a religion of peace after this, he should be sent to ISIS.

Here we go again.


Many people get killed publicly at once by one person or a group of persons.

I feel like we'd be feeling and doing much better if nobody says something like:

'Who is responsible? Islam and/or ISIL of course! What else can it be?? BURN THEM ALL!'

At the least, this is not necessary at all.

________________________________


He was a legal French citizen from Tunisia, and there's been no claim he was from any terrorist organization during the attack. Or at least that's what I read so far.

Also,
Let's please not turn this into a debate regarding religion and offensive comments. This is a thread reporting a horrific incident and shouldn't be tainted any further with arguing. Thank you.

Agreed. Above that line is all I will say with religion in this.

- - - - - - - -

I'm only properly interested now in discussing the circumstances of how the truck managed to enter the area in the first place. That is a big issue, taking how there have been armed guards in many areas during the Euro Championships and such.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/who-is-the-nice-terror-attacker-everything-we-know-so-far/

Earlier both Bloomberg and Reuters reporter that the divorce wasn't concluded but the Telegraph and BBC are reporting it has (I haven't recheckes BBG and Reuters).

This looks to have much more potential to be a political motive with the nation than anything else, if the motive was based on a wide-spanning viewpoint of course, if it is not mainly formed from his recent psychological frame. Could be a mix of both though, too.

[Bluebyrd]

I can't wait for Muslims to stand on street corners and offer hugs to people to show that they're the real victims of terrorist attacks as opposed to the dozens of broken corpses in the street.

[Vermilion]

My thoughts go out to everyone affected by this.

[Professional Russian]

Ohey my god we have to ban trucks. They're responsible for so many deaths. They're death machines. Ban them ban them ban them. Stop the violence ban them

[sqishy]

Ohey my god we have to ban trucks. They're responsible for so many deaths. They're death machines. Ban them ban them ban them. Stop the violence ban them

Time for a short description on the entities of technology we're dealing with here.


Guns:

Guns are tools that are designed specifically to critically injure or kill living animals, humans included.

Their intended effect will be the most efficient thing they are at.

Guns are much more efficient at killing because that is where the peak of their efficiency is, it's where the intent was put.

One gun has so much more capacity than one truck in killing people. Removing guns removes one good way to kill humans.

Banning guns means banning a direct and great capacity to kill humans.

- - - -


Trucks:

Trucks are tools that are designed specifically to transport large volumes/masses of stuff on the ground from one location to another.

Their intended effect will be the most efficient thing they are at.

Trucks can evidently be used to kill, but it is due to the side effects of the processes required to transport lots of stuff around - a big mass with a lot of energy is needed to do that.

Removing trucks removes one good way to transport lots of stuff. We've lost a method of transportation that is mostly used in moving foods, for a great statistical example. Food increases and sustains human life. Guns are comparatively very inefficient in transporting food across population regions, if one were to attempt it (by all means try to conceal a peanut in a large bullet if you want to).

Banning trucks means banning an indirect but great capacity to eventually sustain human life.

- - - -

Therefore I am not seeing your reasoning.

[dxcxdzv]

Paraxiom
Even though I can only salute your description (that I wanted to do, actually, but renounced to it), PR was referring to the fact that as guns are used for mass killing any other object that is used for mass killing should fall into the deduction that it is bad and should be banned. Which is, of course, a wrong interpretation of the "anti-gun" argumentation. But well, I assume you already guessed that but I'd like to prevent an irrelevant discussion started by a potential PR's reply.

What's triggering me in this post is not the fact that an AK-47 is compared to an utility vehicle in the legal way but rather that such a massacre is used as an excuse (even if it may be second degree) for ridiculing gun regulation.
I can't even estimate the level of fallacious thinking in this thing. Haha.

[PlasmaHam]

Let's please not turn this into a debate regarding religion and offensive comments. This is a thread reporting a horrific incident and shouldn't be tainted any further with arguing. Thank you.[/QUOTE]

I could write pages on end about the peril of the Islamic religion, but I respect and understand your want. In fact, I would appreciate this warning given during events that involve shootings and the police. I trust that the moderator here is not a hypocrite.

[sqishy]

Paraxiom
Even though I can only salute your description (that I wanted to do, actually, but renounced to it), PR was referring to the fact that as guns are used for mass killing any other object that is used for mass killing should fall into the deduction that it is bad and should be banned. Which is, of course, a wrong interpretation of the "anti-gun" argumentation. But well, I assume you already guessed that but I'd like to prevent an irrelevant discussion started by a potential PR's reply.

Thanks.
I was aware of what he meant, but for sake of being different this time (so many times at this stage), I wanted to do some technology comparison.


I guess I can formulate the general argument as:


An entity X has been used to help in a mass killing.

Therefore all entity Xs should be banned.



What's triggering me in this post is not the fact that an AK-47 is compared to an utility vehicle in the legal way but rather that such a massacre is used as an excuse (even if it may be second degree) for ridiculing gun regulation.
I can't even estimate the level of fallacious thinking in this thing. Haha.

Yes.

[Professional Russian]

Time for a short description on the entities of technology we're dealing with here.


Guns:

Guns are tools that are designed specifically to critically injure or kill living animals, humans included.

Their intended effect will be the most efficient thing they are at.

Guns are much more efficient at killing because that is where the peak of their efficiency is, it's where the intent was put.

One gun has so much more capacity than one truck in killing people. Removing guns removes one good way to kill humans.

Banning guns means banning a direct and great capacity to kill humans.

- - - -


Trucks:

Trucks are tools that are designed specifically to transport large volumes/masses of stuff on the ground from one location to another.

Their intended effect will be the most efficient thing they are at.

Trucks can evidently be used to kill, but it is due to the side effects of the processes required to transport lots of stuff around - a big mass with a lot of energy is needed to do that.

Removing trucks removes one good way to transport lots of stuff. We've lost a method of transportation that is mostly used in moving foods, for a great statistical example. Food increases and sustains human life. Guns are comparatively very inefficient in transporting food across population regions, if one were to attempt it (by all means try to conceal a peanut in a large bullet if you want to).

Banning trucks means banning an indirect but great capacity to eventually sustain human life.

- - - -

Therefore I am not seeing your reasoning.

it was a magically thing called SARCASM

[sqishy]

it was a magically thing called SARCASM

I know.

[Professional Russian]

I know.

i aint even trying to get into the guns thing again. I just like stirring up shit and watching get made and butthurt. it's funnier than fuck

[sqishy]

i aint even trying to get into the guns thing again. I just like stirring up shit and watching get made and butthurt. it's funnier than fuck

We can get into trucks and how this one managed to get into the region though. The logistics of this is kinda important in itself.

[Professional Russian]

We can get into trucks and how this one managed to get into the region though. The logistics of this is kinda important in itself.

why is it some obsurd truck free zone?

[sqishy]

why is it some obsurd truck free zone?

What?

[everlong]

The world's fucked. God damn.

[Sailor Mars]

I could write pages on end about the peril of the Islamic religion, but I respect and understand your want. In fact, I would appreciate this warning given during events that involve shootings and the police. I trust that the moderator here is not a hypocrite.

Events involving shootings and police aren't blamed on radical idealistic terrorists. That being said, please keep the thread on topic.

[DVDan19]

DVDan19 mattsmith48

There is no indication that the attacker has any affiliation or liking to ISIL or not, so I feel this to be a jump to conclusions that we do not need, even if it turns out that the person is related to the organisation or is a sympathiser.


Well you are right, there is more and more suspicions that it was a lone crazy wolf that did it alone. Nothing is sure yet though...

[Exocet]

I can't wait for Muslims to stand on street corners and offer hugs to people to show that they're the real victims of terrorist attacks as opposed to the dozens of broken corpses in the street.

You are so islamophobic !
But I like it.

[Leprous]

I can't wait for Muslims to stand on street corners and offer hugs to people to show that they're the real victims of terrorist attacks as opposed to the dozens of broken corpses in the street.

Wait so the people who died and their families aren't the victims here? Sorry but if that was your family or even your country you wouldn't be saying that shit.

[Bluebyrd]

Wait so the people who died and their families aren't the victims here? Sorry but if that was your family or even your country you wouldn't be saying that shit.
They are. My post was sarcastic.

[Exocet]

Liberal and other crazy lefists be like :

-He was manipulated by the system
-It's an isolated case,a crazy man
-Don't fuel hatred
-We colonized his country
-Don't put everything in the same bag,don't play the far right's game

I am waiting for more reasons to justify this attack or even try to minimize it. Stronk Serb

[Ghaem]

I feel for all those who have suffered from such tragedy.

I only hope it does not become an excuse for starting other tragedies; Like the ones which sparked the fire of Afghanistan and Iraq Wars.

Also, use it as an excuse to demonize Islam is an obvious insult to Muslims like me.

[DVDan19]

-We colonized his country

I hate so much this excuse omg

[Emerald Dream]

Let's please keep this thread on-topic. I understand that another thread was created as a result of this one - which is good, but I have deleted the off-topic posts.

[sqishy]

Well you are right, there is more and more suspicions that it was a lone crazy wolf that did it alone. Nothing is sure yet though...

Appears so, yes.

- - - - - - - -

Liberal and other crazy lefists [...]

As opposed to the non-crazy and non-liberal 'leftists'?



-He was manipulated by the system

What system? (I don't know what you mean)



-It's an isolated case,a crazy man

It sure is - taking the number of people who you consider to share qualities with these perpetrators (religion, home country, 'values'), then you would be expecting these events to happen way more than even mass shootings do in the US.



-Don't fuel hatred

Don't fuel uncontrolled and unjustified hatred. Otherwise it only makes things worse.



-We colonized his country

I've heard stories, but I'm not getting into this.



-Don't put everything in the same bag,don't play the far right's game

Don't put everything in the same bag indeed, it is simplistic.

Does this have to be a game?



I am waiting for more reasons to justify this attack or even try to minimize it.

What reasoned 'leftist'/etc, and who here on VT, is giving reasons to justify this attack?


I'm still liking the idea that we talk about the event itself with the logistics of the truck getting entry to the area, rather than most of the above.