1/2 a million plan to boycott Target for transgender bathroom policy

[Microcosm]

A conservative Christian activist group has gained more than half a million signatures and counting from people pledging to boycott Target over its transgender bathroom policy.

The petition started by the American Family Association on Wednesday raises concerns that Target's inclusive stance on transgender rights encourages sexual predators and puts women and young girls in danger, because "a man can simply say he 'feels like a woman today' and enter the women's restroom."

The boycott has more than 517,000 signatures as of Monday afternoon, marking it as one of AFA's most popular campaigns.

"This is the best response we’ve ever had this quick," says AFA President Tim Wildmon, attributing the protest's viral nature to the fact that "everybody knows who Target is, and it’s an easy-to-understand issue."

Wildmon says Target stands "to lose a lot of customers who won't come back." But Target is standing by its policy.

"We certainly respect that there are a wide variety of perspectives and opinions," says Target spokeswoman Molly Snyder. "As a company that firmly stands behind what it means to offer our team an inclusive place to work — and our guests an inclusive place to shop — we continue to believe that this is the right thing for Target."

She added that hundreds of Target stores "have single-stall, family restrooms for those who may be more comfortable with that option."

Target made its position public in a blog post last week, stating that the company welcomes "transgender team members and guests to use the restroom or fitting room facility that corresponds with their gender identity." The announcement comes as legislation on transgender issues in multiple states has spurred several major corporations and businesses to take a stance on LGBT rights.

The argument that it endangers young people I think is valid. People could seriously exploit this policy to harm others.

Bathroom usage should not be based on gender identity, nor should it be based on sex at birth, but it should be based on what's between your legs.

Whatever necessity you have to use the bathroom(urinals or stalls), that should be the way to go imo.

People who claim oppression just because they don't have their own bathrooms are wrong. It's social convenience. That social convenience should meet them halfway though and come to a compromise, and I think that the compromise should be based on the actual urinary organs themselves.

[Vlerchan]

The argument that it endangers young people I think is valid. People could seriously exploit this policy to harm others.
Gender-neutral bathrooms have been in use for ages. I presume this fear is being based on the available statistical evidence?

The re-emergence of this sort of paternalism is interesting though.

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I also don't care about the issue at all. I just find what it signals about the direction of our culture interesting.

[Xiao.Z]

So confuse issue. Society much challenge ahead with issue bathroom. Adopt family unhappy of Target decision. Not sure what I am believe. I not comfort with public bathroom attempt never use. Adopt father say I clean freak. If mean not use filthy space yes clean freak.

[Judean Zealot]

It's such a non issue. Make a unisex bathroom, as well as a 'women only'. Damned identity politics.

[Microcosm]

Gender-neutral bathrooms have been in use for ages. I presume this fear is being based on the available statistical evidence?

The re-emergence of this sort of paternalism is interesting though.

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I also don't care about the issue at all. I just find what it signals about the direction of our culture interesting.

It seems like a waste of money given that transgender people are a very small minority. Most gender-neutral bathrooms would never get used.

[phuckphace]

Gender-neutral bathrooms have been in use for ages.

...designed for only one occupant at a time (usually a parent and young child) and almost always with a locking door. they're fairly common in large shopping centers, malls and Walmarts for example. they call them "family restrooms."

obviously entirely different that what the Tumblr crew has in mind. with their shared restroom setup, Bruce Jenner & co. can whip their ladydongs out of their skirts and flash children without having to worry about being caught on security camera.


http://i.imgur.com/5Kv8CMw.png Dad, why is that man wearing a dress?

http://i.imgur.com/8mI6J6v.png Well, Beaver, when two millennials love each other very much...

[Body odah Man]

The argument that it endangers young people I think is valid. People could seriously exploit this policy to harm others.

Bathroom usage should not be based on gender identity, nor should it be based on sex at birth, but it should be based on what's between your legs.

Whatever necessity you have to use the bathroom(urinals or stalls), that should be the way to go imo.

People who claim oppression just because they don't have their own bathrooms are wrong. It's social convenience. That social convenience should meet them halfway though and come to a compromise, and I think that the compromise should be based on the actual urinary organs themselves.

While I think it's a good thing that the transgender community is being listened to, I also agree with the quoted text that it's too open to abuse to be a good thing (the transgender bathrooms). Boycotting Target for it does seem a bit excessive though

[Vlerchan]

It seems like a waste of money given that transgender people are a very small minority. Most gender-neutral bathrooms would never get used.
In places where gender-neutral bathrooms are introduced uni-sex bathrooms get phased out. It's also cheaper as there's no duplication of recourses for the establishment.

...designed for only one occupant at a time (usually a parent and young child) and almost always with a locking door. they're fairly common in large shopping centers, malls and Walmarts for example. they call them "family restrooms."
I guess what I'm thinking of is more a European thing.

One large room with a number of stalls and a common wash area. The stalls have locking doors. So long as Beav doesn't go following Miss Jenner into the stalls his innocence should remain intact.

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I also agree with Judean Zealot.

I'd imagine the cost of pursuing identity politics issues - in terms of invested time and recourses - is enough to build a couple of children's hospitals at this stage.

[Living For Love]

Bathroom usage should not be based on gender identity, nor should it be based on sex at birth, but it should be based on what's between your legs.
I disagree. If you were born a woman, use the women's bathroom. If you were born a man, use the men's bathroom. Is this so difficult to understand?

[sqishy]

The argument that it endangers young people I think is valid. People could seriously exploit this policy to harm others.

These people could be 'filtered out' by having doctor-certified papers or something similar. I've said before in that recent transgender thread that a system should not be taken down because people abuse it, rather that the abuse is prevented and/or stopped and punished.


Bathroom usage should not be based on gender identity, nor should it be based on sex at birth, but it should be based on what's between your legs.

There are intersex people, so we need to draw some probably arbitrary line on which side you go to, which I feel adds to the arbitrariness of gender/sex-specific bathrooms.
I'm leaving out this question of why we need different toilets for different biological sex, I mean the main difference is that urinals are only to be found in toilets for males. Just having toilets that are not divided because of sex would clear this up, i.e. gender-neutral.


People who claim oppression just because they don't have their own bathrooms are wrong. It's social convenience. That social convenience should meet them halfway though and come to a compromise, and I think that the compromise should be based on the actual urinary organs themselves.

The problem is where some people feel they would not belong in either one, due to either imperfectly presenting as a certain gender, or not fitting into the just male/female genders. Removing social conveniences should not be a major problem, if it is just a convenience. I don't see it as one anyway, to be honest.

Basically my stance is make it all go gender-neutral.

_______________


...designed for only one occupant at a time (usually a parent and young child) and almost always with a locking door. they're fairly common in large shopping centers, malls and Walmarts for example. they call them "family restrooms."

Can 'advance' the toilets so that they resemble the usual male/female multiple toilets in a room setting. Better still, remove the specific gender/sex signs for the bathrooms and let people go to either.



obviously entirely different that what the Tumblr crew has in mind. with their shared restroom setup, Bruce Jenner & co. can whip their ladydongs out of their skirts and flash children without having to worry about being caught on security camera.

Tumblr is not the universal source and motivator for all of transgender-related stuff.
Not sure what you mean with people flashing children in bathrooms, not getting that part.


image (http://i.imgur.com/5Kv8CMw.png) Dad, why is that man wearing a dress?

image (http://i.imgur.com/8mI6J6v.png) Well, Beaver, when two millennials love each other very much...

I don't like your perspective on this overall, but I certainly want to see more threads using face dialectic styles to present viewpoints :D .

_______________

I disagree. If you were born a woman, use the women's bathroom. If you were born a man, use the men's bathroom. Is this so difficult to understand?

Is it so difficult to not have different rooms for just different genitals?

[Living For Love]

Is it so difficult to not have different rooms for just different genitals?
Not really, and I don't think I would be opposed to it, at least in some establishments, but since that doesn't happen, well, we just need to adapt to what we currently have, and what we currently have is bathrooms for men and bathrooms for women.

[Vermilion]

Please say if you disagree but it's unfair to force a woman born as a man and vice versa to use a bathroom that doesn't suit who they are. I understand that it's a very hard topic cos of people misusing the law's. But to put it bluntly you wouldn't say white only bathroom or straight only bathroom. So don't do it to trans people. If it comes to it remove the signs on toilets I'm sure the world won't end and people will get used to it

[sqishy]

Not really, and I don't think I would be opposed to it, at least in some establishments, but since that doesn't happen, well, we just need to adapt to what we currently have, and what we currently have is bathrooms for men and bathrooms for women.

Alright, so if it were to happen, you would be okay with it.

[Porpoise101]

It's not like it matters. Transgender people are such a tiny minority of the world, it might make more sense to treat issues case by case rather than sweeping reform. At least homosexuals make up at least 1% of the population..

It might sound stupid, but to me the best option is just to treat people nice.

[DriveAlive]

I have really been trying to learn more about the transgender topic and mindset. We have been studying it in school and I personally disagree with transgenderism. The way I see it, it is either a fetish or a form of body dismorphism.

In the 1950s, men wore suits and acted very masculine while women wore dresses and acted very feminine. As a society, we have come a long way since then and now people are generally free to do as they please. Boys at my school are in dance or the musical. Girls wear pants and some play hockey. We have been slowly trying to tear down gender barriers and treat all people equally. Now, transgenders think that they should be the opposite gender so they must physically alter their external appearance as if the only thing that makes a person a woman is long hair and a dress. It is an outdated and regressive understanding of gender that would be a step backwards for the country.

The focus on wearing women's clothing seems to be more of a fetish. If a woman wears a suit, she is still a woman. The clothing does not dictate gender. If one must wear certain women's clothing for personal satisfaction, there seems to be an underlying mental disorder or fetish responsible for this.

When people physically alter their appearance to attempt becoming the opposite gender, it sounds like body dismorphism. They have an idea of themself in their head that does not match reality and cannot be mentally satisfied until they physically alter themselves. These people should be given psychological help.

[Porpoise101]

In the 1950s, men wore suits and acted very masculine while women wore dresses and acted very feminine. As a society, we have come a long way since then and now people are generally free to do as they please. Boys at my school are in dance or the musical. Girls wear pants and some play hockey. We have been slowly trying to tear down gender barriers and treat all people equally. Now, transgenders think that they should be the opposite gender so they must physically alter their external appearance as if the only thing that makes a person a woman is long hair and a dress. It is an outdated and regressive understanding of gender that would be a step backwards for the country.

The focus on wearing women's clothing seems to be more of a fetish. If a woman wears a suit, she is still a woman. The clothing does not dictate gender. If one must wear certain women's clothing for personal satisfaction, there seems to be an underlying mental disorder or fetish responsible for this.

When people physically alter their appearance to attempt becoming the opposite gender, it sounds like body dismorphism. They have an idea of themself in their head that does not match reality and cannot be mentally satisfied until they physically alter themselves. These people should be given psychological help.
The first and third portions I agree with. But the second portion I feel is incorrect because even 4 year olds feel dysphoria. It has been found to occur in those too young to have a sex drive. So for these individuals, I think it's not possible for them to really have a fetish. Maybe you mean the word 'fetish' in a different way, but I'd say most trans-females are more of the third and less of the second. Currently, I doubt we have the means to treat those suffering from dysphoria, so even if it is a curable condition, I believe that it's best to accommodate them until we reach that point.

[DriveAlive]

The first and third portions I agree with. But the second portion I feel is incorrect because even 4 year olds feel dysphoria. It has been found to occur in those too young to have a sex drive. So for these individuals, I think it's not possible for them to really have a fetish. Maybe you mean the word 'fetish' in a different way, but I'd say most trans-females are more of the third and less of the second. Currently, I doubt we have the means to treat those suffering from dysphoria, so even if it is a curable condition, I believe that it's best to accommodate them until we reach that point.

I mean fetish in a psychosexual sense, as in the person gets gratification from wearing the clothing. I do not believe that children are capable of being "transgender" in the way that people say that they are. A child does not really have a gender until puberty. By this I mean that a boy can like dresses and Barbies as a child but he will not know what gender he "identifies" as until he arrives at puberty. I used to like sewing and dresses and figure skating as a child and I even thought at one time that I would want to be a girl. When I reached puberty, I realized that I was a guy.

[Vlerchan]

The way I see it, it is either a fetish or a form of body dismorphism.
It's neither, as it explicitly relates to someone's social identity.

I realise the response is going to be, then why do some transpeople desire surgery. In advance, the reason that's prescribed is that it's intended to make them feel more at ease with themselves. The dysphoria arises from the realised-conflict between their sex and social identities.

It is an outdated and regressive understanding of gender that would be a step backwards for the country.
No Transperson claims that woman must be feminine, or men must be masculine.

Transmen are biological-woman that feel masculine. Them claiming to feel masculine is a relation to the prevailing societal norms, and not based in an archaic belief of essential differences. Gender-norms must necessarily precede gender-dysphoria, and the condition arises from a realise-conflict between their own social identity and the social identity prescribed to them from birth.

If a woman wears a suit, she is still a woman.
No-one disagrees on this point.

What's being claimed is that certain forms of dress are associated with certain social identities. Wearing a dress is very much a feminine occupation, whether that offends ones politically-correct sensibilities or not.

Transpeople emphasise dress because it is intimately linked to social identity.

When people physically alter their appearance to attempt becoming the opposite gender, it sounds like body dismorphism.
Like I discuss above, it's not.

[kev1998]

A simple solution would be to remove the man or woman from the door and replace it with a penis and vagina. You match the door to what you have. I am joking of course but it is not a total bad idea.

[Xiao.Z]

Target private company have right for make policy they choose. When public not agree policy stop shop at store. If store not enjoy reaction then alter policy. I not comfort with Target policy so not use restroom when visit store. I not see reason for people become outrage let shopper decide if agree and behave accord to feeling. Not simple for large business alter restroom for accomodate all people feeling. I believe Target try policy for inclusive but people not agree easy to demonstrate feeling for store.

[holly6]

It's a bit ridiculous to boycott target for this. They had good intentions, yet I can partly see the other argument. I feel as if some transgender people really do feel more comfortable in the other bathrooms, so they should be allowed to enter. However, I think you could easily identify the difference between a real transgender and a fake one and I don't think that most real ones have the intentions of harming people..

[Stronk Serb]

I have really been trying to learn more about the transgender topic and mindset. We have been studying it in school and I personally disagree with transgenderism. The way I see it, it is either a fetish or a form of body dismorphism.

In the 1950s, men wore suits and acted very masculine while women wore dresses and acted very feminine. As a society, we have come a long way since then and now people are generally free to do as they please. Boys at my school are in dance or the musical. Girls wear pants and some play hockey. We have been slowly trying to tear down gender barriers and treat all people equally. Now, transgenders think that they should be the opposite gender so they must physically alter their external appearance as if the only thing that makes a person a woman is long hair and a dress. It is an outdated and regressive understanding of gender that would be a step backwards for the country.

The focus on wearing women's clothing seems to be more of a fetish. If a woman wears a suit, she is still a woman. The clothing does not dictate gender. If one must wear certain women's clothing for personal satisfaction, there seems to be an underlying mental disorder or fetish responsible for this.

When people physically alter their appearance to attempt becoming the opposite gender, it sounds like body dismorphism. They have an idea of themself in their head that does not match reality and cannot be mentally satisfied until they physically alter themselves. These people should be given psychological help.

A doubtful case of dysphoria was treated with pimozide and one year after the therapy the patient "became normal", so to speak. No need to dress like the oposite sex and no more wishes for sex change surgery. Maybe a new similar drug could be developed. Two mg of pimozide a day and this patient became normal.

[Vlerchan]

...doubtful case of dysphoria...
I feel I should emphasise that the patient did not have gender dysphoria.

That a treatment programme was designed for this patient is irrelevant. The claim being made is similar to - in fact: the same as - inferring from the use of Prozac for the relief of depression that gender-dysphoria can be relieved through medication.

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Of course it remains possible. But that doesn't seem too meaningful to me.

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Edit.
phuckphace

Caitlyn Jenner posted a video on Wednesday (April 26) of herself using a women's bathroom at Republican Presidential candidate Donald Trump's New York hotel. Published on her Facebook page, Jenner's video shows her walking along the street, entering the Trump International Hotel and Tower and making her way to the restrooms. The video was spurred on by Trump, who, during an appearance on The Today Show last week, said in an interview that he would not care if Jenner used the women's room at his properties.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-jenner-restroom-trump-idUSKCN0XP340

Lol'd.

[Vlerchan]

Double posting so the thread will be bumped.

Update.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Department of Justice told North Carolina's governor on Wednesday that a new state law limiting restroom access for transgender people violates the U.S. Civil Rights Act.

In a letter to Republican Governor Pat McCrory that was seen by Reuters, the Justice Department said the state was "engaging in a pattern or practice of discrimination against transgender state employees," and it had until Monday to address the issue.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0XV2N8

[sqishy]

I've not responded here as sort of got my angle through I felt was needed, but some recent facebook posts speak of people intentionally following 'suspected trans people' into bathrooms and standing by them, which is sort of ironic.