UK - Stay or Leave the European Union

[nnoooooooopppeee]

Should the UK stay or leave the EU?

For more information, I recommend: this link for a FAQ-style page about the debate (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32810887) and this link for a breakdown of pros and cons for being in the European Union (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32793642). (Credits to BBC News).

[Stronk Serb]

The big con of leaving is that the border through the Eurotunnel will retorn to their side of the strait, making it easier for migrants to get inside UK proper.

[Exocet]

The big con of leaving is that the border through the Eurotunnel will retorn to their side of the strait, making it easier for migrants to get inside UK proper.

I am pretty sure that 90% of those that wants UK out is because they think this will stop immigration.

[kirsty_js16]

were better off leaving the eu

[Ragle]

And after Brexit it will be such that nothing much changes at all…

[dxcxdzv]

It always seemed to me that one of the main issues the UK's got with the EU is about preserving the Pound.
On the other hand it also seems to me like the Commonwealth and a membership in the EU are somehow incompatible.

[Irishperson15]

One thing which hasn't been discussed much by British politicians is the border of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. If the UK leaves the EU, that would mean there could be a back door into the UK through the Republic and into Northern Ireland. For those that do not know, the situation there would be quite precarious if a solid land border was created. Not saying this would be a reason for many in mainland Britain to not leave the EU but it is an example of a problem it would cause.

[Porpoise101]

Britain shouldn't have joined in the first place. They need to sort themselves out. The way they think of themselves makes Union impossible, even the Turks are more European then the islanders.

[phuckphace]

one thing which hasn't been discussed much by british politicians is the border of northern ireland and the republic of ireland. If the uk leaves the eu, that would mean there could be a back door into the uk through the republic and into northern ireland. For those that do not know, the situation there would be quite precarious if a solid land border was created. Not saying this would be a reason for many in mainland britain to not leave the eu but it is an example of a problem it would cause.

build

wall

[Irishperson15]

build

wall

No you see that's what I hinted at in my post. They couldn't do that. They wouldn't do that. Northern Ireland is just after several decades of civil war and atrocities and has been peaceful only since 1998. The current political system is a marriage of convenience between two polar opposite political parties and the Unionist-Nationalist divide remains. The Republicans or Nationalists would not let a wall be built between Northern Ireland and the Republican or Ireland and if that happened violence would errupt without a question. Coming from someone who lives there. Seriously though, read up on it, it is interesting.

[Vlerchan]

One thing which hasn't been discussed much by British politicians is the border of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
Border controls with the North would be reimposed if Britain left the European Union, a British government report has stated.

The cabinet office report on the consequences of leaving the EU also warned that the future of the common travel area would be in doubt.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/brexit-to-trigger-return-of-ni-cross-border-controls-report-1.2554732

There's been a host of Eurosceptics claim that the soft border could continue nonetheless. I'm presuming the fact that we have no actual government at the moment is hindering negotiations on what could occur if Brexit passes.

[Irishperson15]

Border controls with the North would be reimposed if Britain left the European Union, a British government report has stated.

The cabinet office report on the consequences of leaving the EU also warned that the future of the common travel area would be in doubt.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/brexit-to-trigger-return-of-ni-cross-border-controls-report-1.2554732

There's been a host of Eurosceptics claim that the soft border could continue nonetheless. I'm presuming the fact that we have no actual government at the moment is hindering negotiations on what could occur if Brexit passes.

Yes but that's the point. "Border controls would be imposed" - but to what level was the point.

[Vlerchan]

Yes but that's the point. "Border controls would be imposed" - but to what level was the point.
The report indicates a hard border would be reimposed - i.e the one that prevailed before the current agreement. I'm presuming the truth of the report ahead of the claims of politicians.

[Irishperson15]

The report indicates a hard border would be reimposed - i.e the one that prevailed before the current agreement. I'm presuming the truth of the report ahead of the claims of politicians.

If that happened violence would errupt in the North from dissident Republicans, could you imagine their reaction? :o

[Vlerchan]

If that happened violence would errupt in the North from dissident Republicans, could you imagine their reaction? :o
People born in Northern Ireland that desire so will still be able to access Irish citizenship and thus travel across the border. It would have no effective impact on the Northern Irish other than having to pass a border guard.

Their might be some stirrings about people south of the border being unable to access the N.I. but I imagine the biggest grumbles there will be from those unable to go shopping up North with the new cheap pound. Polling data shows a persistent weakening of perceptions of shared nationhood with those up North.

---

I also think the U.K. should remain in the EU.

Leaving will issue a substantial shock to it's medium-run outlook.

It then has the choice of joining the EEA-EFTA or engaging in sector-by-sector negotiations with the EU ala Switzerland. The EEA-EFTA requires members to accept free movement of labour and the thus-far developments in European Union case law. That means the EEA-EFTA is going to be out of the question: necessitating probably-years of gruelling negotiations.

The U.K's comparative advantage is in services - accounting: consulting: financial services. You can be certain that the French and the Germans are going to veto whatever efforts are made to bring about the resumption of the current level of penetration of their service markets. So expect some strategic blocking of major initiatives all-round: though a general re-opening of markets will occur once the European-central economies feel the peripheral understand it'd be better to remain in.

On the brightside the U.K. will be free to sign trade deals with other states - BRICS - without having to deal with continentals attempting to protect certain sectors that are irrelevant to the UK: and in the long-run that will be a boon. But at the same time - the U.K. will be opting in to be a standard-taker in perhaps all but finance as the larger regional blocks (through TPP and TTIP and whatever deal(s) get signed with China) determine the regulatory direction. It's arguable that it's lack of clout within the EU - in-part it's own design - has relegated it to that position as-is.

It will have - on the bright-side - national sovereignty(!) which seems to boil down to being able to avoid some of the stupider regulations coming out of the EP and swap Poles for ones non-European immigrant of choice.

[Irishperson15]

People born in Northern Ireland that desire so will still be able to access Irish citizenship and thus travel across the border. It would have no effective impact on the Northern Irish other than having to pass a border guard.
Try telling that to any dissident Republicans, do you think they'll just accept it? I mean you're preaching to the converted here but I'm just saying some people would kick-off, unfortunately. Also, it is a big matter of principle for them. These would be the modern anti-Treaty type who don't appreciate pragmatism. In the North, they call Sinn Féin sellouts.

[Vlerchan]

Try telling that to any dissident Republicans, do you think they'll just accept it? I mean you're preaching to the converted here but I'm just saying some people would kick-off, unfortunately. Also, it is a big matter of principle for them. These would be the modern anti-Treaty type who don't appreciate pragmatism. In the North, they call Sinn Féin sellouts.
It's that this sort of Republican feels that Sinn Féin are sell-outs - and still refers to Ireland as The Free-State in passing - that I'm basing this assessment off. We're talking about people that at the moment have an utterly depreciated opinion of the current state of Ireland. This is going to seem like a much bigger step for moderate Republicans than it will be for those that never decommissioned.

I'm sceptical it'll be any sort of spark for those who never saw the current state of affairs as a worthy step in the first place.

[Stronk Serb]

Britain shouldn't have joined in the first place. They need to sort themselves out. The way they think of themselves makes Union impossible, even the Turks are more European then the islanders.

Ayy lmao at saying Turks are European
Has European blood: much European blood
*Has Germanic blood: Anglo-Saxons- check
*Has Celtic blood: Scots, Irish, Walesmen and others- check
Has European language: watered down version of a west Germanic language mixed with French- check
Has European culture: experienced the Rennaisance, Baroque, Neoclassicism, Romantism and other movements- check
Has mainstream European religion: majority of the population belong to the Christian religious group, has church representatives in Parliament- check

They seem pretty European to me, no matter how much I dislike the UK. Turks don't really act European, religious radicalism and genocide denial is pretty strong there, also minority opression... what would the Kurds say? I still find it extremely hypocritical that the Armenian genocide wasn't branded a genocide by the UN and it's organisations. It has all the characteristics. Not all Turks are islamists, the ones living on the coast are pretty civilised, the more inland you go, the more your stomach spins.

[Porpoise101]

Ayy lmao at saying Turks are European
Has European blood: much European blood
*Has Germanic blood: Anglo-Saxons- check
*Has Celtic blood: Scots, Irish, Walesmen and others- check
Has European language: watered down version of a west Germanic language mixed with French- check
Has European culture: experienced the Rennaisance, Baroque, Neoclassicism, Romantism and other movements- check
Has mainstream European religion: majority of the population belong to the Christian religious group, has church representatives in Parliament- check

They seem pretty European to me, no matter how much I dislike the UK. Turks don't really act European, religious radicalism and genocide denial is pretty strong there, also minority opression... what would the Kurds say? I still find it extremely hypocritical that the Armenian genocide wasn't branded a genocide by the UN and it's organisations. It has all the characteristics. Not all Turks are islamists, the ones living on the coast are pretty civilised, the more inland you go, the more your stomach spins.
I'm talking about a mentality. Turks (at least pre Erdogan) were willing to be subservient pups to the wider community. Britons are too ridiculous, thinking they have some sort of empire or languishing greatness. They have this idea that they are 40 miles from the US and Canada, but are really off of the French coast. What I'm trying to say is that (modern) Turks at least want to be European-ish, but Britons aren't about that.

As for the Turks they have lots of European blood, probably a third honestly because they are descended partially from assimilated Anatolians and Greeks.
They aren't as religious as some European countries either, it's just that the politicians use Islam as a means to promote a nationalist agenda. Usually saying that Islam=Turk and Orthodox=Greek or Serbian. It's bad but I think it goes both ways.
Sure, Turkish isn't a European language but neither is Hungarian. Also does that make Indians Europeans too?
As for genocide denial, I don't get how that makes someone un European, it just makes them stupid.

[phuckphace]

I think the question of Turkey being European or not is now moot thanks to Merkel. not even Europe is European for much longer anyway (lol/lmao Germany has more Turks than Turkey). if you've ever visited Turkey as an unaccompanied female you'll feel like you're back home in Cologne

[Vermilion]

I think we should leave. I'm not saying no trading or anything but be able to make our own laws and rules without the eu saying no. Plus how much more money must We give to Europe

[lliam]

Germany has more Turks than Turkey).

And my family is kinda part of it. This year there's already the fourth German-Turkish-German marriage within my relatives. But we'll welcome the first woman with turk~(kurdish) migrant background in our clan. And even stepmom is to one third Turkish.

http://blog.unitee.eu/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/IMG-flag-BLOG-620x350.jpg



Regarding the UK withdrawal out of the EU, I personally think they should stay in the EU. Strangely, in this case I even share the opinion of my "daddio-in-law", who basically is a arc-conservative British dude. But he would support an exit when the EU'll admit none of the requested concessions.


So "Bye, bye UK"
kick ass Merkel

aaand

"Hoş geldiniz - Türkiye!" :D

[Stronk Serb]

I'm talking about a mentality. Turks (at least pre Erdogan) were willing to be subservient pups to the wider community. Britons are too ridiculous, thinking they have some sort of empire or languishing greatness. They have this idea that they are 40 miles from the US and Canada, but are really off of the French coast. What I'm trying to say is that (modern) Turks at least want to be European-ish, but Britons aren't about that.

As for the Turks they have lots of European blood, probably a third honestly because they are descended partially from assimilated Anatolians and Greeks.
They aren't as religious as some European countries either, it's just that the politicians use Islam as a means to promote a nationalist agenda. Usually saying that Islam=Turk and Orthodox=Greek or Serbian. It's bad but I think it goes both ways.
Sure, Turkish isn't a European language but neither is Hungarian. Also does that make Indians Europeans too?
As for genocide denial, I don't get how that makes someone un European, it just makes them stupid.

Turks have European mentality? Most of them living in Europe live in segregated neighbourhoods and are all like 'much islum, much shuria luw'. They are not European by general standards because their culture is different and their ethnic background is different. Hungarians are European because they embraced European values and Christianity, a religion which has most followers in Europe, the seat of most Christian churches. Also the Hungarians tried to preserve their horselord lifestyle, but were pressed on by Europeans to adapt and act European, which they did. Turks are unwilling to fully commit to that. Also they aren't ethbically one third native since they genocided the natives and settled in. Small amounts of Greeks persisted in enclaves on coastak cities but Greek, Armenian and other percentage was pretty low, not to mention unexistent after the Armenian genocide.

[Porpoise101]

Turks have European mentality? Most of them living in Europe live in segregated neighbourhoods and are all like 'much islum, much shuria luw'. They are not European by general standards because their culture is different and their ethnic background is different. Hungarians are European because they embraced European values and Christianity, a religion which has most followers in Europe, the seat of most Christian churches. Also the Hungarians tried to preserve their horselord lifestyle, but were pressed on by Europeans to adapt and act European, which they did. Turks are unwilling to fully commit to that. Also they aren't ethbically one third native since they genocided the natives and settled in. Small amounts of Greeks persisted in enclaves on coastak cities but Greek, Armenian and other percentage was pretty low, not to mention unexistent after the Armenian genocide.
You are right that they embrace Islam, but it's just a conservative ploy to spur nationalism. Like how the US wanted to be portrayed as more religious during the Cold War. There could actually be up to 30% non religious in Turkey since many stop practicing as they grow up. The 98% figure is because they register religion when you are born in Turkey. They just want to portray themselves as Islamic because they want to make themselves seem separate from the "evil Christian traitor" Greeks and Armenians.

As for "genociding the natives", it's not real/(at least as much as you think). Anatolia has always been "genocided" as you put it (I prefer assimilated). Hell, even the poor innocent Greeks did it. Where do you think the Hittites and the ancient cities went? Why are Anatolian languages dead? It's because they adopted a more useful culture. The Greeks of old were mostly male youngsters trying to make a new life through their colonial adventures. This means that they procreated with natives. The same happened during the Muslim conquests. The Turks only got reactionary and evil when the ethnic minorities started clamoring for a state.

Maybe you are right though. I think at least a decent portion of Turkish society could be considered European though.

[Stronk Serb]

You are right that they embrace Islam, but it's just a conservative ploy to spur nationalism. Like how the US wanted to be portrayed as more religious during the Cold War. There could actually be up to 30% non religious in Turkey since many stop practicing as they grow up. The 98% figure is because they register religion when you are born in Turkey. They just want to portray themselves as Islamic because they want to make themselves seem separate from the "evil Christian traitor" Greeks and Armenians.

As for "genociding the natives", it's not real/(at least as much as you think). Anatolia has always been "genocided" as you put it (I prefer assimilated). Hell, even the poor innocent Greeks did it. Where do you think the Hittites and the ancient cities went? Why are Anatolian languages dead? It's because they adopted a more useful culture. The Greeks of old were mostly male youngsters trying to make a new life through their colonial adventures. This means that they procreated with natives. The same happened during the Muslim conquests. The Turks only got reactionary and evil when the ethnic minorities started clamoring for a state.

Maybe you are right though. I think at least a decent portion of Turkish society could be considered European though.

Not really since by many European's views, you need to adopt European values. Even if those Turks had Greek ancestry, it would be best to ditch islam or convert to Christianity and learn up your roots. Also what is needed is to despise the self-proclaimed sultan Recep Erdogan, the lord of the neo-Ottoman lands. He is very funny though.

[phuckphace]

http://i.imgur.com/RktBYm6.png

[Porpoise101]

image (http://i.imgur.com/RktBYm6.png)
I was legitimately scared that this was real for a second. Nice meme bro.

[Porpoise101]

Please delete

[lliam]

Please delete


VT mentioned you quoted me in here. Do you regret it yet??? :D

[Porpoise101]

VT mentioned you quoted me in here. Do you regret it yet??? :D
Haha no it was a dumb thing about me seeing a ton of Turkish stores in New York City. The food and stuff is popular look...http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160403/58f1bded534f7c9e002bf37f1aaa2489.jpg

So maybe United Beyliks of America could be a thing no?

[lliam]

I think so. Reminds me, in Germany kebab shops are more popular than MacDonalds. Döner, err, kebab is next to Pizza. I think the Turkish food culture has become Germanized properly. Hmm, or is it vice versa?

Anyway, eventually we once will have an Turkish Obama. Because our top politicians (in future german: bizim liderler) are more and more of Turkish descent. Also Gernans and Turks have the "ü" and "ö" in common. Thus also the linguistic part is covered. :D

btw: Same with the comedy part in entertaining. Most popular german comedians are: Django Asül, Kaya Yanar, Bülent Ceylan, Serdar Somuncu, Cem Özdemir (CEO of Die Grünen, green oriented party, and future German/Alman leader/fuhrer/chancellor/lider)

and more important, are/were Footballers (soccer player): Alper Akçam, Taner Akçam, Mehmet Akgün, Şahin Aygüneş, Serhat Akın, Erhan Albayrak, Ünal Alpuğan, Salih Altın etc etc


So, in case of the British Goodye, Turkey could eventually fill the resulting gap with the support of Dürkschland (Germurkey).

[Stronk Serb]

I think so. Reminds me, in Germany kebab shops are more popular than MacDonalds. Döner, err, kebab is next to Pizza. I think the Turkish food culture has become Germanized properly. Hmm, or is it vice versa?

Anyway, eventually we once will have an Turkish Obama. Because our top politicians (in future german: bizim liderler) are more and more of Turkish descent. Also Gernans and Turks have the "ü" and "ö" in common. Thus also the linguistic part is covered. :D

btw: Same with the comedy part in entertaining. Most popular german comedians are: Django Asül, Kaya Yanar, Bülent Ceylan, Serdar Somuncu, Cem Özdemir (CEO of Die Grünen, green oriented party, and future German/Alman leader/fuhrer/chancellor/lider)

and more important, are/were Footballers (soccer player): Alper Akçam, Taner Akçam, Mehmet Akgün, Şahin Aygüneş, Serhat Akın, Erhan Albayrak, Ünal Alpuğan, Salih Altın etc etc


So, in case of the British Goodye, Turkey could eventually fill the resulting gap with the support of Dürkschland (Germurkey).



I wish individual cultires could be preserved.


Also I read something funny. What's similar between KKK and the NPD? Half of their respective members are undercover cops.

[Porpoise101]

Also I read something funny. What's similar between KKK and the NPD? Half of their respective members are undercover cops.
There is a joke that says you will find more FBI Agents in the Appalachians than in Washington. It is kind of similar.

[phuckphace]

I think so. Reminds me, in Germany kebab shops are more popular than MacDonalds. Döner, err, kebab is next to Pizza. I think the Turkish food culture has become Germanized properly. Hmm, or is it vice versa?

Anyway, eventually we once will have an Turkish Obama. Because our top politicians (in future german: bizim liderler) are more and more of Turkish descent. Also Gernans and Turks have the "ü" and "ö" in common. Thus also the linguistic part is covered. :D

btw: Same with the comedy part in entertaining. Most popular german comedians are: Django Asül, Kaya Yanar, Bülent Ceylan, Serdar Somuncu, Cem Özdemir (CEO of Die Grünen, green oriented party, and future German/Alman leader/fuhrer/chancellor/lider)

and more important, are/were Footballers (soccer player): Alper Akçam, Taner Akçam, Mehmet Akgün, Şahin Aygüneş, Serhat Akın, Erhan Albayrak, Ünal Alpuğan, Salih Altın etc etc

So, in case of the British Goodye, Turkey could eventually fill the resulting gap with the support of Dürkschland (Germurkey).

more like Dönerstag amirite

[GothSwimmer]

We should stay in. It's harder to make change from the outside looking in. I'm not afraid of immigrants, and look poorly on those who are.

[lliam]

more like Dönerstag amirite

indeed. :D

[phuckphace]

It's harder to make change from the outside looking in.

what does this even mean?

I'm not afraid of immigrants, and look poorly on those who are.

because irrational fear is the only reason people oppose mass immigration. nice meme!

[Vlerchan]

what does this even mean?

The UK's close trading relationship with the EU means it will be bound to its rules regardless. It's alot easier to affect these from inside.