Winning isn't Everything

[AgentHomo]

So in the past few days since the opening of the Olympics, my boyfriend and I have agreed that we would not even support the Olympics this year as they are being hosted by a country with severe anti-gay laws. We were discussing with some friends of ours about the possibility of a boycott, which we originally agreed that was a great idea, but since then there has been zero support from some of the more progressive countries. Shame.

However, I donated the idea that for the athletes, winning a gold medal shouldn't be the highlight of their life. Honestly standing up for human rights should be more important than 15 seconds of fame and a medal. I feel like if the athletes themselves boycotted the Olympics, then it would have been much more effective. Instead of athletes who won medals, they would have had the chance to been heroes for the basic rights of humans everywhere. Someone that is much more glamorous.

So my opinion is this: the athletes should have realized that winning isn't everything, especially when people are being killed for being gay or even voicing their support for gay rights. Instead they should have stood up for equal rights all over the world and forfeit their chance to win in the Olympics. This would have been a much more glorious showmanship and victory for them and for equality. Not just one country, but people from various countries standing together against oppression. Honestly this would have been much more meaningful.

Opinions?

[Harry Smith]

Actually agree with the general idea of this. Athletes are so fucking self absorbed and have no idea what's going on around them. Great you managed to jump over a block of ice-here's a lump of metal. It's amazing to just analyze why sport is so greatly tied into our culture when really it's pathetic.

We boycotted South Africa in the 1970's and 1980's for their racist regime- we should of done the same for Russia and their barbaric laws.

You'll be amazed just how ignorant people are about human rights

[tovaris]

Whats the deal with thie russian olimpics thing, every time they hoste them some people demand a boycot.
Im not saing that the russian "stay in our steal bar closet" laws are any good, but why do they stand out so mush?
We have terible laws regarding children in famelies with same sex parents, and noone thaught to boicot the european championship in basketbal... Israel trampels human rights on daly basis and noone takes notice... And how about arab countries with their laws that forbid gays from entering theyr country, and yet people still race formula 1... etc. Etc...

[AlexOnToast]

Athletes are so fucking self absorbed and have no idea what's going on around them. Great you managed to jump over a block of ice-here's a lump of metal. It's amazing to just analyze why sport is so greatly tied into our culture when really it's pathetic.

As someone who puts a lot of effort into sport, this post slightly disheartened me XD I think calling it "pathetic" might be a bit of a stretch :(

[Harry Smith]

Whats the deal with thie russian olimpics thing, every time they hoste them some people demand a boycot.
Im not saing that the russian "stay in our steal bar closet" laws are any good, but why do they stand out so mush?
We have terible laws regarding children in famelies with same sex parents, and noone thaught to boicot the european championship in basketbal... Israel trampels human rights on daly basis and noone takes notice... And how about arab countries with their laws that forbid gays from entering theyr country, and yet people still race formula 1... etc. Etc...

Two wrongs don't make a right.

They stand out because it's a targeted law that similar to the Nuremberg laws of 1935 they target one minority and subject them to abuse. Gay Russians have virtually no protection within the law.

This isn't about Saudi Arabia, Israel or the Balkans. This is about Russia and stopping the systematic targeting of a minority

As someone who puts a lot of effort into sport, this post slightly disheartened me XD I think calling it "pathetic" might be a bit of a stretch :(

Not really, they're playing games to win a piece of rock. It's amazing how fucking stupid humanity can be, we get so involved in such petty arenas such as sport. I mean sure take part in order to stay healthy or to enjoy yourself but if your actually prepared to stand idly whilst such abuse occurs then you really need to question the grand point of it all

[AgentHomo]

Not really, they're playing games to win a piece of rock. It's amazing how fucking stupid humanity can be, we get so involved in such petty arenas such as sport. I mean sure take part in order to stay healthy or to enjoy yourself but if your actually prepared to stand idly whilst such abuse occurs then you really need to question the grand point of it all

As someone who puts a lot of effort into sport, this post slightly disheartened me XD I think calling it "pathetic" might be a bit of a stretch :(

Basically while all the attention is on the athletes, they have the power, and the responsibility to stand up and make a statement that supports the cause of equality and human rights. Sadly most are self-obsessed like Harry said and only care about winning, bringing me to the main point of the thread, if they really want to be a hero, sacrifice the gold medal and stand up for what is right. Until then, no one who competes in this year's Winter Olympics is worth my attention.

[tovaris]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

They stand out because it's a targeted law that similar to the Nuremberg laws of 1935 they target one minority and subject them to abuse. Gay Russians have virtually no protection within the law.

This isn't about Saudi Arabia, Israel or the Balkans. This is about Russia and stopping the systematic targeting of a minority



Not really, they're playing games to win a piece of rock. It's amazing how fucking stupid humanity can be, we get so involved in such petty arenas such as sport. I mean sure take part in order to stay healthy or to enjoy yourself but if your actually prepared to stand idly whilst such abuse occurs then you really need to question the grand point of it all

Thats because other countries in europe arent stamping out all kinds of minoreties?!... Italy, austra and hungary constantly stamping out our nationa minortety. Germany discriminating againced turks... dont get me started on your presous island. They are all wrong to do so, and they all have sistemis laws that alove this and deny human rights. So why is putin so special (apart from his statement of the gays comming to the olimpics having to leave the kids alone)

[AlexOnToast]

Basically while all the attention is on the athletes, they have the power, and the responsibility to stand up and make a statement that supports the cause of equality and human rights. Sadly most are self-obsessed like Harry said and only care about winning, bringing me to the main point of the thread, if they really want to be a hero, sacrifice the gold medal and stand up for what is right.

I agree, I wouldn't dream in taking part in something like that. I probably wouldn't even be allowed considering my sexuality. But that is not what I was getting at in my previous post.

[Harry Smith]

Thats because other countries in europe arent stamping out all kinds of minoreties?!... Italy, austra and hungary constantly stamping out our nationa minortety. Germany discriminating againced turks... dont get me started on your presous island. They are all wrong to do so, and they all have sistemis laws that alove this and deny human rights. So why is putin so special (apart from his statement of the gays comming to the olimpics having to leave the kids alone)

I'll agree that some European immigration policy is right wing-that's not the same as gays getting killed on the streets. You'll be able to see from my other posts that I'm vocally in favour of EU immigration.

The EU convention clearly provides frame work for all European citizens and in Britain we have the 1998 human right act to provide for that.

But again the issue isn't about EU immigration-it's about Putin and his violently anti-gay laws which have lead to teens being killed on the streets.

[thatcountrykid]

Actually agree with the general idea of this. Athletes are so fucking self absorbed and have no idea what's going on around them. Great you managed to jump over a block of ice-here's a lump of metal. It's amazing to just analyze why sport is so greatly tied into our culture when really it's pathetic.

We boycotted South Africa in the 1970's and 1980's for their racist regime- we should of done the same for Russia and their barbaric laws.

You'll be amazed just how ignorant people are about human rights

I wouldnt say athletes are the self absorbed ones. You cant ecpects these people to drop everything theyve worked for their all lifes just because the country hosting their goal offends some people. Just like your not gonna stop showing pride of who you are even though it offends some people.

[tovaris]

I'll agree that some European immigration policy is right wing-that's not the same as gays getting killed on the streets. You'll be able to see from my other posts that I'm vocally in favour of EU immigration.

The EU convention clearly provides frame work for all European citizens and in Britain we have the 1998 human right act to provide for that.

But again the issue isn't about EU immigration-it's about Putin and his violently anti-gay laws which have lead to teens being killed on the streets.

Im not deniing putins issues. Im merly stating that we Should ask ourselwes some question when we onky see probkems there and ignore the ones here. Im sory to repet myself, but why not for similar resons boicot the F1?
The aproche againce represion and the rightwings shoukd be uniform and global. There are other countries where gays get killed in the streets as you putit and there is no talk about those, and there are countries wiht mich larger tolerance to thee than some of the EU...

[Harry Smith]

just because the country hosting their goal offends some people. .

No.No.No.

The Russian state is authorizing gay citizens to be killed by gangs, and to have acid thrown over their face. Putin is happily supporting these actions, I'd even argue it makes the stuff that the soviets did look timid.

The Russian state is endorsing persecution and murder of a minority. That's very different to just offending people

[Tarannosaurus]

No.No.No.

The Russian state is authorizing gay citizens to be killed by gangs, and to have acid thrown over their face. Putin is happily supporting these actions, I'd even argue it makes the stuff that the soviets did look timid.

The Russian state is endorsing persecution and murder of a minority. That's very different to just offending people

I agree with this, laws are one thing, actual practice is quite another. Putin's defense is that he is protecting the children from gay pedophiles, and civilians are going along with it. Another thing, there is civil war happening a few hundred miles away in Russia, and innocent people being murdered. Does the media care? Of course not. It's not just gay people there are so many different human rights abuses happening there right now, and I think that is more important than a sports competition. Do you really need to prove your sporting abilities that badly? Obviously it is much too late to do something about the Olympics, but I really hope that everyone isn't just going to pretend these things aren't happening in Russia.

[Stronk Serb]

Ummm, why allow them to host the Olympics in the first place? Putin is like 'think I can't do it? watch me'. This has gotten so much out of control, and even the places the athletes are staying are crap (bathrooms without stalls). Everyone should have cut the problem at it's roots, not when it's kinda too late. Still, athletes with enough dignity can skip these Olympics and perform at the next ones for the sake of the suffering minorities.

[JamesSuperBoy]

Please - dont blame the athletes.

[Harry Smith]

Please - dont blame the athletes.

Because they're just following orders?

If anything I'm most critical of the athletes and there failure to see the much wider picture. They're playing in the snow for a lump of rock.

[tovaris]

Because they're just following orders?

If anything I'm most critical of the athletes and there failure to see the much wider picture. They're playing in the snow for a lump of rock.

Thats what athleets do. And also that is how they survive.

[Harry Smith]

Thats what athleets do. And also that is how they survive.

Okay-that doesn't justify it does it?

You want to hear about survival-talk to LGBT community in Russia who are fighting for their lives.

[tovaris]

Okay-that doesn't justify it does it?

You want to hear about survival-talk to LGBT community in Russia who are fighting for their lives.

Many peope in russia are fighting for their lives, many minoreties and political oponents i think its unfair to just point out the LGBT since ve have a much larger problem with human rights there.

Tel me for example how it Team to A Maze supozed to suvive the year without them respecting their contract wit the national skiing bureau? This it the athlets job, if you dont like it its wery hard to find a new one...
Again i would like to point out F1 and the lack of people talkong about its venues (khm khm arabia)

[Harry Smith]

Many peope in russia are fighting for their lives, many minoreties and political oponents i think its unfair to just point out the LGBT since ve have a much larger problem with human rights there.

Tel me for example how it Team to A Maze supozed to suvive the year without them respecting their contract wit the national skiing bureau? This it the athlets job, if you dont like it its wery hard to find a new one...
Again i would like to point out F1 and the lack of people talkong about its venues (khm khm arabia)

Your just drawing a straw-man away from the real issue. I'll happily refer back to South Africa and the boycott of sport. In Cricket every single team in the world survived not playing South Africa. You simply boycott and hold the Olympics somewhere else.

Many peope in russia are fighting for their lives, many minoreties and political oponents i think its unfair to just point out the LGBT since ve have a much larger problem with human rights there.

then why the fuck are we there?

[Emerald Dream]

You simply boycott and hold the Olympics somewhere else.



then why the fuck are we there?

This argument has nothing to do with the athletes though. A boycott would involve the organizations/governments of the countries involved.

This has gone really far off of the original topic....which is about the athletes in the Olympics and whether or not they should stand up for human rights. I don't see what in the world this has to do with a boycott. They are two separate topics.

The athletes are just that....athletes. Expecting them to be militant activists is completely ridiculous.

[tovaris]

Your just drawing a straw-man away from the real issue. I'll happily refer back to South Africa and the boycott of sport. In Cricket every single team in the world survived not playing South Africa. You simply boycott and hold the Olympics somewhere else.



then why the fuck are we there?

Ill give you the reasons:
War, pece
International diplomaci
Путин
Capitalism
And the f**** olimpics of the atomic age!!!

[Harry Smith]

This argument has nothing to do with the athletes though. A boycott would involve the organizations/governments of the countries involved.

This has gone really far off of the original topic....which is about the athletes in the Olympics and whether or not they should stand up for human rights. I don't see what in the world this has to do with a boycott. They are two separate topics.

The two are extremely closely linked, nearly every single sporting boycott has come from the athletes actively choosing not to go-such as the England boycott of Zimbabwe in 2003.

The only way they can stand up to human rights abuse is by not going-we tried being friendly in 1936

[Emerald Dream]

The two are extremely closely linked, nearly every single sporting boycott has come from the athletes actively choosing not to go-such as the England boycott of Zimbabwe in 2003.

The only way they can stand up to human rights abuse is by not going-we tried being friendly in 1936

The logistics of this are not even remotely realistic.

Like I said, they are athletes who train for years and years for this. They are not going to drop 20 years of training to boycott an Olympic Games.

This is on the Olympic committees and the governments of each nation. Not the athletes. The entire angle of this argument is ridiculous. You're blaming the wrong people.

[Harry Smith]

The logistics of this are not even remotely realistic.

Like I said, they are athletes who train for years and years for this. They are not going to drop 20 years of training to boycott an Olympic Games.

This is on the Olympic committees and the governments of each nation. Not the athletes. The entire angle of this argument is ridiculous. You're blaming the wrong people.

Okay- they train years and years to jump over a piece of ice. And guess what the reward is- a piece of medal with a cute picture on it. That's great isn't it? I'm sure the LGBT Russians with blood oozing out of their wrists will be overjoyed to hear that

The athletes are the one's who are standing by, they can quite simply choose to personally boycott it. The governments are equally as stupid-that doesn't mean I'm just going to ignore the athletes

It's a clear choice between sport and human rights. If this was Putin carrying out ethnic cleansing of all Blacks within Russia it would be a very different topic wouldn't it?

[StoppingTime]

Okay- they train years and years to jump over a piece of ice. And guess what the reward is- a piece of medal with a cute picture on it. That's great isn't it? I'm sure the LGBT Russians with blood oozing out of their wrists will be overjoyed to hear that

Those two situations have literally nothing to do with one another.
If you think that athletes are just glorified individuals who "jump over a piece of ice for a piece of metal" you're incredibly misguided. Just because you don't (seem to at least) partake in any sort of sport because of how ridiculous you think it is...doesn't actually make it ridiculous in reality. If you want to sit and tell yourself that sports cause humanity to become "fucking stupid" then do it. But you have literally no right or stance to say that the athletes participating have anything to do with "anti-gay" laws in Russia.


The athletes are the one's who are standing by, they can quite simply choose to personally boycott it. The governments are equally as stupid-that doesn't mean I'm just going to ignore the athletes

Good, ignore them. In fact, why don't you just ignore the Olympics entirely as you despise them as they're apparently directly linked to Russian law.


It's a clear choice between sport and human rights. If this was Putin carrying out ethnic cleansing of all Blacks within Russia it would be a very different topic wouldn't it?

lolwutevendude.

[Harry Smith]

Those two situations have literally nothing to do with one another.
If you think that athletes are just glorified individuals who "jump over a piece of ice for a piece of metal" you're incredibly misguided. Just because you don't (seem to at least) partake in any sort of sport because of how ridiculous you think it is...doesn't actually make it ridiculous in reality. If you want to sit and tell yourself that sports cause humanity to become "fucking stupid" then do it. But you have literally no right or stance to say that the athletes participating have anything to do with "anti-gay" laws in Russia.



Good, ignore them. In fact, why don't you just ignore the Olympics entirely as you despise them as they're apparently directly linked to Russian law.



lolwutevendude.

I enjoy taking part in sport, as I've said before. I just don't prioritize sporting events over human rights-especially on such a global scale. I actually believe the Olympics can be a force for good, however it's failing that at the moment

The athletes have everything to do the with laws-we boycotted South Africa for racism in the 1970's did we not?

We showed that we don't endorse Apartheid as a world bloc, I don't see why we can't do the same with anti-gay laws. You can try and dismiss it with a single word because that makes it easier doesn't it. LGBT rights are just as important as civil rights were in the 1960's.

I'll continue to argue that we did it once-we can do it again. A full boycott of Russian sport until Putin repeals government backed oppression of a minority.

[tovaris]

Okay- they train years and years to jump over a piece of ice. And guess what the reward is- a piece of medal with a cute picture on it. That's great isn't it? I'm sure the LGBT Russians with blood oozing out of their wrists will be overjoyed to hear that

The athletes are the one's who are standing by, they can quite simply choose to personally boycott it. The governments are equally as stupid-that doesn't mean I'm just going to ignore the athletes

It's a clear choice between sport and human rights. If this was Putin carrying out ethnic cleansing of all Blacks within Russia it would be a very different topic wouldn't it?

You know whats the most desturbing part in your argument... You are conpletly forgetting everione else who isnt lgbt, and you re conpletly forgetting the rest of the world the rest of europe, which by the way is in termoil (ukrain, BiH)

[Harry Smith]

You know whats the most desturbing part in your argument... You are conpletly forgetting everione else who isnt lgbt, and you re conpletly forgetting the rest of the world the rest of europe, which by the way is in termoil (ukrain, BiH)

What are you on about? The Ukraine has nothing to do with Olympics, or the persecution of a minority. I've always been a vocal critic of Putin's regime.

Of course the rest of the world is in turmoil-that doesn't mean we can't solve the issue of Russia.

Your whole argument seems to be something bad is happening here let's stop doing anything progressive and give up

[tovaris]

What are you on about? The Ukraine has nothing to do with Olympics, or the persecution of a minority. I've always been a vocal critic of Putin's regime.

Of course the rest of the world is in turmoil-that doesn't mean we can't solve the issue of Russia.

Your whole argument seems to be something bad is happening here let's stop doing anything progressive and give up

No what im saing is that some olimpich that are contoversial every time should not be subject of a say russia debate... since in russia the pro lem is far much wider that jist some lgbts and some athlests you want to deprive of a once in a lifetime oportunety.

[Harry Smith]

No what im saing is that some olimpich that are contoversial every time should not be subject of a say russia debate... since in russia the pro lem is far much wider that jist some lgbts and some athlests you want to deprive of a once in a lifetime oportunety.

Just some LGBT? You quite clearly have no idea of the problems that are going on in Russia. Gay teenagers are getting killed, getting their heads kicked in for being born a certain way. That's a major national problem.

Your argument is crap at the best- if the problem is so much wider as you claim then why are we having an Olympics there?

[JamesSC]

I actually think that Winning is good and winning is something. Never got the saying that it was nothing.

[tovaris]

Just some LGBT? You quite clearly have no idea of the problems that are going on in Russia. Gay teenagers are getting killed, getting their heads kicked in for being born a certain way. That's a major national problem.

Your argument is crap at the best- if the problem is so much wider as you claim then why are we having an Olympics there?

Calemé vous!
The problem is even wider than that, one could observe such discrimination even towards certan natonal grups...

As i said the reasons for the olymics being held where they are: Путин, diplomacy, war, wepons, cash, Capitalism, and as we say here on the balkans pece in bosnia-doing something for the (in thhs case eleged) grater good of avoiding a colflict situation

[Sir Suomi]

Sure, I guarantee that the athletes, who've sweat, bled, and cried over making themselves better doing something they love for likely their whole lives, would be willing to just "drop" the Olympics. God, are you incompetent? Listen, for most of these athletes, their sport is their whole entire lives, and the vast majority of them, if not all, should feel downright blessed to be participating in the world's largest sporting event, so would you expect them not to compete, after going through hell just to make it in their, for a social issue that not all of them possibly support? You don't realize how important a sport can be to an athlete. I'd sure as hell compete if I had the chance. Now, are we agreeing with what Russia is doing do their homosexual population? For the majority of us, that'd be no. But they're not just going to drop what they've been training for just for this. And also, don't insult their passion. They likely feel as passionate towards their sport as you care about equality.

[thatcountrykid]

Sure, I guarantee that the athletes, who've sweat, bled, and cried over making themselves better doing something they love for likely their whole lives, would be willing to just "drop" the Olympics. God, are you incompetent? Listen, for most of these athletes, their sport is their whole entire lives, and the vast majority of them, if not all, should feel downright blessed to be participating in the world's largest sporting event, so would you expect them not to compete, after going through hell just to make it in their, for a social issue that not all of them possibly support? You don't realize how important a sport can be to an athlete. I'd sure as hell compete if I had the chance. Now, are we agreeing with what Russia is doing do their homosexual population? For the majority of us, that'd be no. But they're not just going to drop what they've been training for just for this. And also, don't insult their passion. They likely feel as passionate towards their sport as you care about equality.

This exactly. Every body here is all about equality and freedoms but as soon as someone disagres they are lesser unducated bigots in your minds. Respect is a two way street. There will probably never be a time in the world where people agree on races and sexualitys but that doesnt mean we have to jump at each others throats every time someone states their opinion.

[Harry Smith]

This exactly. Every body here is all about equality and freedoms but as soon as someone disagres they are lesser unducated bigots in your minds. Respect is a two way street. There will probably never be a time in the world where people agree on races and sexualitys but that doesnt mean we have to jump at each others throats every time someone states their opinion.

The Russian's aren't stating their opinions, they're organizing government approved attacks on a minority. There's a very big difference.

Sure, I guarantee that the athletes, who've sweat, bled, and cried over making themselves better doing something they love for likely their whole lives, would be willing to just "drop" the Olympics. God, are you incompetent? Listen, for most of these athletes, their sport is their whole entire lives, and the vast majority of them, if not all, should feel downright blessed to be participating in the world's largest sporting event, so would you expect them not to compete, after going through hell just to make it in their, for a social issue that not all of them possibly support? You don't realize how important a sport can be to an athlete. I'd sure as hell compete if I had the chance. Now, are we agreeing with what Russia is doing do their homosexual population? For the majority of us, that'd be no. But they're not just going to drop what they've been training for just for this. And also, don't insult their passion. They likely feel as passionate towards their sport as you care about equality.

Then hold the Olympics in another country, or at another date. I appreciate your argument but I'll ask you this question-if sport is so important why did we boycott South African support for a 'social issue'?

[Lovelife090994]

What!? How can you expect athletes who have worked their whole lives into a sport to boycott th Olympics!? Honestly this has nothing to do with Russia. Gay Russians are partaking and watching the Olympics too. If you want to talk or anti-gay, try Rwanda, Uganda, Iran, Afghanistan, the list can go on. But Russia? No where near as bad. Heck if human rights are the issue, why no talk of boycotting with China? These athletes are athletes, they play to compete and win. Whether the athlete wins or not isn't even always important, it's the fact that they made it to the Olympics. Boycotting it is ludicrous!

[Harry Smith]

What!? How can you expect athletes who have worked their whole lives into a sport to boycott th Olympics!? Honestly this has nothing to do with Russia. Gay Russians are partaking and watching the Olympics too. If you want to talk or anti-gay, try Rwanda, Uganda, Iran, Afghanistan, the list can go on. But Russia? No where near as bad. Heck if human rights are the issue, why no talk of boycotting with China? These athletes are athletes, they play to compete and win. Whether the athlete wins or not isn't even always important, it's the fact that they made it to the Olympics. Boycotting it is ludicrous!
You quite clearly don't know your history, we've been boycotting sport since the 1960's, and it's worked.

We don't have an Olympics in Rwanda, Uganda or Iran at the moment. As I've constantly said I believe more action should be taken to protect LGBT communities all over the world. I'd even argue that Rwanda has very progressive laws for an African state.

The issue is Russia, and the problem is that the law is regressive. LGBT had better rights 10 years ago now it's getting worse. If you look at History when you begin to take rights away from a group then it only gets worse

[DeadEyes]

Quite an argument there and I don't mean to intrude but I just want to point out that for the olympic athletes winning is everything, that is what they prior over anything. People prior what serve their interests first, no matter what.

[Vlerchan]

[...] if sport is so important why did we boycott South African support for a 'social issue'?

Because the actions of apartheid-era South Africa were directly affecting athletes - it was direct related to the industry: it wasn't permitting itself a multi-racial teams. It helped that apartheid-era South Africa didn't have the political and economic power that Putin's Russia currently hold.

Anyway: I agree with what you're saying (Harry) - we shouldn't stand for what's happening in Russia - though I'm not sure if a boycott is such a good idea: the competing sportspeople have nothing to do with this charade; if they want to boycott the Olympics themselves then that's their pejorative but we shouldn't force - though a national boycott - them not to partake in the Winter Olympics. It'd be more for harming the (largely) innocent sportspeople than Russia - like: what would you actually expect to come from a boycott (honestly)?

[Harry Smith]

Because the actions of apartheid-era South Africa were directly affecting athletes - it was direct related to the industry: it wasn't permitting itself a multi-racial teams. It helped that apartheid-era South Africa didn't have the political and economic power that Putin's Russia currently hold.

Anyway: I agree with what you're saying (Harry) - we shouldn't stand for what's happening in Russia - though I'm not sure if a boycott is such a good idea: the competing sportspeople have nothing to do with this charade; if they want to boycott the Olympics themselves then that's their pejorative but we shouldn't force - though a national boycott - them not to partake in the Winter Olympics. It'd be more for harming the (largely) innocent sportspeople than Russia - like: what would you actually expect to come from a boycott (honestly)?

It's largely the image of the situation, we need to show that the world doesn't support these sorts of regressive attacks against a minority. I think Stephen Fry says it must matter that I do.

he Olympic movement at that time paid precisely no attention to this evil and proceeded with the notorious Berlin Olympiad, which provided a stage for a gleeful Führer and only increased his status at home and abroad. It gave him confidence. All historians are agreed on that. What he did with that confidence we all know.I am gay. I am a Jew. My mother lost over a dozen of her family to Hitler’s anti-Semitism. Every time in Russia (and it is constantly) a gay teenager is forced into suicide, a lesbian “correctively” raped, gay men and women beaten to death by neo-Nazi thugs while the Russian police stand idly by, the world is diminished and I for one, weep anew at seeing history repeat itself.

[LunarScorpio]

It depends how they win to say whether it is right or wrong

[Synyster Shadows]

I think the Olympics should have been boycotted. This is partially because I don't really care for sports to start, and partially the human rights issue in russia. I think that Harry put it very nicely - they're playing in the snow for a lump of medal. They instead should be standing up for human rights

[LunarScorpio]

I don;t think a boycott would have been necessary but I do understand where you guys are coming from

[Sir Suomi]

Then hold the Olympics in another country, or at another date. I appreciate your argument but I'll ask you this question-if sport is so important why did we boycott South African support for a 'social issue'?

This isn't the athletes fault, instead, it is the IOC's. If you believe that the Olympics shouldn't have been held in Sochi, you should be placing the pressure on the IOC, instead of the athletes. The athletes are simply there to demonstrate their abilities.

Addressing your other comment, I will repeat my first statement. The IOC should have simply moved the Olympics to a more suitable location (Given they do it with prior warning, and at least 4 years notice to the new country), or better yet, planned it somewhere else. So blame them, instead of asking athletes to stand down.

[PinkFloyd]

I sort of see what you mean, but you need to understand that a lot of these athletes have been training for their moment for a really long time.

To be honest, I don't see much of a point of boycotting the olympics. I mean, if people just go there for the olympics and to have a good time and not mention homophobia or let it have any sort of impact, then what's the problem? it would be like ignoring the annoying little brother versus fighting back.

I apologize if that didn't make much sense. I'm not much of a debater...

[Harry Smith]

This isn't the athletes fault, instead, it is the IOC's. If you believe that the Olympics shouldn't have been held in Sochi, you should be placing the pressure on the IOC, instead of the athletes. The athletes are simply there to demonstrate their abilities.

Addressing your other comment, I will repeat my first statement. The IOC should have simply moved the Olympics to a more suitable location (Given they do it with prior warning, and at least 4 years notice to the new country), or better yet, planned it somewhere else. So blame them, instead of asking athletes to stand down.

The Athletes still have an element of guilt on there hands-the same way that the government officials in Russia do who claim they're just doing there Job (one they've been training to)

I like to think that athletes have the intelligence to realize the grander scheme of things here and not just mindlessly follow the pack. By no means am I saying that the IOC are innocent


I sort of see what you mean, but you need to understand that a lot of these athletes have been training for their moment for a really long time.

To be honest, I don't see much of a point of boycotting the olympics. I mean, if people just go there for the Olympics and to have a good time and not mention homophobia or let it have any sort of impact, then what's the problem? it would be like ignoring the annoying little brother versus fighting back.

I apologize if that didn't make much sense. I'm not much of a debater...

To describe it as homophobia is pretty shaky ground-there's homophobia in our school systems. In Russia it's turning into systemic abuse of a minority, if we go to Olympics and ignore it then how is that any different to 1936 when we all praised uncle Adolf

[Zenos]

So in the past few days since the opening of the Olympics, my boyfriend and I have agreed that we would not even support the Olympics this year as they are being hosted by a country with severe anti-gay laws. We were discussing with some friends of ours about the possibility of a boycott, which we originally agreed that was a great idea, but since then there has been zero support from some of the more progressive countries. Shame.

However, I donated the idea that for the athletes, winning a gold medal shouldn't be the highlight of their life. Honestly standing up for human rights should be more important than 15 seconds of fame and a medal. I feel like if the athletes themselves boycotted the Olympics, then it would have been much more effective. Instead of athletes who won medals, they would have had the chance to been heroes for the basic rights of humans everywhere. Someone that is much more glamorous.

So my opinion is this: the athletes should have realized that winning isn't everything, especially when people are being killed for being gay or even voicing their support for gay rights. Instead they should have stood up for equal rights all over the world and forfeit their chance to win in the Olympics. This would have been a much more glorious showmanship and victory for them and for equality. Not just one country, but people from various countries standing together against oppression. Honestly this would have been much more meaningful.

Opinions?


I agree but.... to win a Gold medal is not 15 minutes of fame.

Ever hear of Milo of Crotan? His name is echoed even today! he has immortality of a type and that's what this Olympians will get is they win and make a impression. Ultimately it is those who say winning isn't everything whoses name is left in the dust bin of history...and yes there are many many ways of Winning.

Winners whose names will live in include George Washington,Alexander the Great ,Bruce Lee ,Eugen Sandow ,Martin Luther King jr.,Malcom X,etc etc


Milo of Kroton
•Wrestler
•Six-time Olympic victor: ◦Won once in boys' wrestling, 60th Olympiad, 540 BCE
◦five-time wrestling champion from 62nd to 66th Olympiad, 532 to 516 BCE



The most illustrious of athletes... Strabo, Geography, 6.1.12



It is no great thing to possess strength, whatever kind it is, but to use it as one should. For of what advantage to Milo of Kroton was his enormous strength of body?... Diodorus Siculus, Historical Library, 9.14.1


One of the most legendary athletes in the ancient world, Milo of Kroton, wore the victor's crown at Olympia no less than six times. Born in southern Italy, where Greece had many colonies, Milo won the boys' wrestling contest in 540 BCE.

He returned eight years later to win the first of five consecutive wrestling titles, a feat that seems incredible by modern standards. Rarely do modern-day Olympians compete in more than two or three Olympiads over the course of a career. Much like the boxer George Foreman, Milo resisted retirement: By the time of the 67th Olympiad in 512 BCE, Milo was probably forty or more years old but he competed anyhow. The challenger won not by overpowering Milo, but by avoiding the older wrestler and wearing him out.

According to our ancient sources, Milo enjoyed showing off his unrivaled strength. For instance, he would clasp a pomegranate in his hand and have others try to take it away from him. Even though he was holding it so tightly that no one could remove it, he never damaged the fruit. Sometimes, he would stand on a greased iron disk and challenge others to push him off of it. Another of his favorite exhibitions was tying a cord around his forehead, holding his breath, and breaking the cord with his bulging forehead veins. Other times, the wrestler would stand with his right arm at his side, his elbow against him, and hold out his hand with thumb pointed upwards and fingers spread. No one could successfully bend even his little finger.


Milo excelled even in warfare. When a neighboring town attacked Kroton, Milo entered the battle wearing his Olympic crowns and dressed like Herakles, in lion's skin and brandishing a club, and led his fellow citizens to victory.

A follower of the famous philosopher Pythagoras, Milo once saved his friends. It happened that the roof of the hall where the Pythagoreans were meeting began to collapse. Milo stood and supported the central pillar until the others escaped to safety and then dashed out, saving himself.

In the end, however, all of this fame and strength did not save Milo from a less than glorious death. Milo was wandering through the forest when he found an old tree trunk with wedges inserted into it. In an attempt to test his strength, Milo placed his hands and, perhaps his feet, into the cleft of the trunk and tried to split apart the wood. He succeeded in loosening the wedges, which fell out, but the trunk closed on his hands, trapping him. There, according to the tale, he fell prey to wild beasts.