Serbia's parliamentary elections

[Stronk Serb]

So the elections are in late april, the one that matter. Presidential here are as important as royal succession in the UK, it's ceremonial. So who would you vote for if you were in my shoes? The elections are in late April, just in time for me to register as a voter and vote. There are a few options:

Serbian Progressive Party- just no, they fucked us up, they informally joined NATO and allowed them free reins on our territory, without a refferendum. Not to mention mass censorship of non-party friendly news and facts.

Socialist Party of Serbia- they always join the winning coalition, but I am not sure who will win.

The Gates- anti-EU, anti-NATO, anti-Eurozone, pro-Russian, despite being clerofascists they seem like a reasonable choice to me. Stick it up to NATO and the EU, we don't want to be another march on the Balkans and a buffer against Russia.

Democratic Party- corrupt thieves who were actually linning their pockets and damaging the country a lot less than the Progressives, it's just they've been blown off the scene.

Serbian Radical Party- shady, Seselj actually wants to form a coalition with the Progressives on a few conditions if they win.

'That's Enough!' Movement- also pretty shady, looks like faked opposition.

Union of Vojvodina Hungarians/any minority party- they get a few MPs by constitution plus the votes, just the coalition is the problem.

Democratic Party of Serbia- same like the Gates, they are just really shady since they are the ones who originally turned Serbia to the West.

New Democratic Party- exiles from the Democratic party, humble thieves when compared to thr Progressives.

Liberal-Democrat Party- their leader is a coke snorter and got rich in a shady way.

[Porpoise101]

'That's Enough!' Movement- also pretty shady, looks like faked opposition..

What do they stand for? And who is behind them?

[Stronk Serb]

What do they stand for? And who is behind them?

Libertarians. Budged transparency, government decision transparency. As far as I know, they have no economic policy. They are led by Sasa Radulovic who was the minister of Agriculture in the Progressive's government. That's why I think they are shady.

[Vlerchan]

Would you be able to list the basic platform for each of the groups?

[Stronk Serb]

Would you be able to list the basic platform for each of the groups?

Progressives- tax raising, budget cuts as proposed by the IMF, EU and NATO membership

Socialists- platform is irrelevant since they are always a lesser partner in a coalition and do what the ruling party says

The Gates and the Democrats of Serbia- backing down from EU and NATO, keeping the 2012 status quo and maintining pro-Russian relations, also working on national unity and lowering taxes and expanding budget spendings from the Democrat era, before 2012 elections

Democrats- status quo with EU and backing down from NATO, reinstating their 2012 reforms and making the people's lives easier

Radicals- get into the government at any cost on condition of no NATO or EU

Minority parties- betterment of their respective minorities

'That's enough'- hasn't really released a platfom, for now they highlight Progressive's problems

New Democrats- identical to the Democratic Party

Liberal-Democrats- EU integrations

That's what's known for now.

[Porpoise101]

How many minorities are there?

[Stronk Serb]

How many minorities are there?

Hungarians, Slovaks, Romanians and gypsies.
All expect the last one has their respective minority party.

[Porpoise101]

Hungarians, Slovaks, Romanians and gypsies.
All expect the last one has their respective minority party.
Would you be considered a minority since you are part Hungarian? If you are, then would you choose that party?

[thegreatgatz]

Movement of Socialists all day long!

[Stronk Serb]

Would you be considered a minority since you are part Hungarian? If you are, then would you choose that party?

No, I need to be an active Hungarian speaker and I guess have more Magyaroszag in me. I wouldn't choose it since they have a lot of ties with the current regime, the party itself is in a power struggle, if I would vote for a Hungarian party it would be for the future breakaways.

Movement of Socialists all day long!

I just hope you are not serious. That party is cancer. I think that it is the literally only self-declared socialist party that is not accepted in the Socialist Internationale.

[thegreatgatz]

No, I need to be an active Hungarian speaker and I guess have more Magyaroszag in me. I wouldn't choose it since they have a lot of ties with the current regime, the party itself is in a power struggle, if I would vote for a Hungarian party it would be for the future breakaways.



I just hope you are not serious. That party is cancer. I think that it is the literally only self-declared socialist party that is not accepted in the Socialist Internationale.

Well, ideally I'd have the Communist Party win, but I don't know whether they'd have a chance
Seeing that they most carry on the legacy of Tito, I would be supporter, however Tito's policies require modification for the modern era

[Stronk Serb]

Well, ideally I'd have the Communist Party win, but I don't know whether they'd have a chance
Seeing that they most carry on the legacy of Tito, I would be supporter, however Tito's policies require modification for the modern era

Socialism and communism are gone, the Communist Party is the only existing one that is actually for socialism. They just never go over the needed minimum for parliament seats. I gues the Gates can suit you, anti EU, anti NATO, anti globalisation, anti tycoonist, anti IMF... I doubt they'll win but it would be a nice experiment, reverting back to a dictatorship just this time with more nationalism.

[Porpoise101]

So who do you support? I'm guessing the Gates? Personally, I think the Progressive party is what I would vote. But for you, I understand that is an impossibility. At least choose the Serbian radical party...

[Vlerchan]

I'd also vote Progressives. I don't tend to be too keen on IMF-pushed growth-strategies but Serbia - I found - has a massive fiscal deficit and debt is much too expensive for it.

[Stronk Serb]

So who do you support? I'm guessing the Gates? Personally, I think the Progressive party is what I would vote. But for you, I understand that is an impossibility. At least choose the Serbian radical party...

I'd also vote Progressives. I don't tend to be too keen on IMF-pushed growth-strategies but Serbia - I found - has a massive fiscal deficit and debt is much too expensive for it.

The problem I have witb the Progressives is widespread corruption gripping their administration and general government incompetence. Due to incompetence of our minister of defence, a Progressive, seven people died last year. They are raising taxes and lowering wages in the public sector. I think this is the first time since WWII that people are dying from hunger. They censor everything, they ruined the justice system, the army and the standard of living.

[Vlerchan]

I realise that there's probably issues associated with them but the Progressives still seem like providing the stablest long-run for Serbian people. Eliminating Serbia's bloated public sector and raising taxation rates to cover a deficit that's too expensive to expect to be able to finance into the medium-run - are good things.

This concern also takes precedence ahead of all others. Nonetheless if you can link to reports documenting high-ranking corruption that would be appreciated.

[Stronk Serb]

I realise that there's probably issues associated with them but the Progressives still seem like providing the stablest long-run for Serbian people. Eliminating Serbia's bloated public sector and raising taxation rates to cover a deficit that's too expensive to expect to be able to finance into the medium-run - are good things.

This concern also takes precedence ahead of all others. Nonetheless if you can link to reports documenting high-ranking corruption that would be appreciated.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/30/coincidence-or-corruption-the-case-of-serbias-bouncing-lottery-ball-21

https://www.krik.rs/en/a-mayor-helps-a-father/

https://www.krik.rs/en/the-mayors-hidden-property/

https://www.krik.rs/en/the-mayors-free-land/

https://www.krik.rs/en/government-waives-debt-of-air-serbia-to-belgrade-airport/

Seeing how he's the mayor of our capital an largest city, I think the Progressives don't do anything against corruption. Seeing how a bunch of investigative journalists found out about it, I highly doubt the Progressives care about corruption of their own.

https://www.krik.rs/en/new-videos-show-crime-boss-meeting-top-serbian-police/

Law and order are ruined

https://www.krik.rs/en/belgrade-court-acquits-stanko-subotic-of-cigarette-smuggling-charges-in-final-ruling/

https://www.krik.rs/en/advisor-to-serbian-prime-minister-worked-for-montenegrin-criminal/

And so is the justice system, Ivica is the former PM, but Vucic was his vice PM and de facto ruler of Serbia.

http://birn.eu.com/en/news-and-events/serbia-media-report-says-soft-censorship-persists

Censorship exists, for example the massive anti-NATO protest that happened in the center of Belgrade was not reported on because it conflicts with the Progressive views.

http://birn.eu.com/en/news-and-events/serbian-telecoms-company-pays-bank-chief-s-debt

And a little more corruption in the national bank. All mentioned are Progressives, except Ivica Dacic who is from the Socialist Party.

So who do you support? I'm guessing the Gates?

Look up the articles and tell me if you would vote for the Progressives. I'm definitely voting for the Gates, the Radicals got sold out for parliament seats by offering a coalition to the Progressives.

[Porpoise101]

Look up the articles and tell me if you would vote for the Progressives. I'm definitely voting for the Gates, the Radicals got sold out for parliament seats by offering a coalition to the Progressives.
Well I'm saying that the Radicals may be a good thing to vote for because it seems they are willing to compromise in order to get a decent solution. A less divided government is a good thing.

[Stronk Serb]

Well I'm saying that the Radicals may be a good thing to vote for because it seems they are willing to compromise in order to get a decent solution. A less divided government is a good thing.

They are rerunning their campaign since the nineties, they betrayed their ideals once. The Radicals really need to get into the government since they don't hold any parliament seats since 2012, and they haven't held cabinet position since 2000.

[Vlerchan]

Stronk Serb

The lotto being a state-owned firm doesn't indicate that the leading party were responsible.
Mali's affairs are currently being probed on the basis of the reports linked (http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/anti-corruption-agency-to-probe-belgrade-s-mayor-10-22-2015). The prime minister has mentioned he'd dismiss him if it was the case he was found to be corrupt.
The video in the article on Law & Order was taped a while before the Progressives gained power - in 2008/9. In fact the Progressives had just been established at this point. You'll have a difficult time convincing me they're at fault.
If the legal system isn't heavily politicised - which would be worse - the lack of arrests are not indicative of faults within the progressives.
The same as the direct above. In the article it also notes: "Judge Dragan Milosevic denied political pressure played any role in the reversal of the verdict". We can engage in speculation but that's about it.
You'll need to explain the link offered in the second article again.
That soft censorship is bad but I'm not of the opinion it would change under a different regime - You?
On the last article the first point worth making is that the pay-off occurred whilst the Progressives were junior in the coalition and 3 months into term.
Honestly it seems like the Socialists are inexcusably corrupt and the Progressives are implicated through forming a coalition with them in 2012 - 2014.

[Stronk Serb]

Stronk Serb

The lotto being a state-owned firm doesn't indicate that the leading party were responsible.
Mali's affairs are currently being probed on the basis of the reports linked (http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/anti-corruption-agency-to-probe-belgrade-s-mayor-10-22-2015). The prime minister has mentioned he'd dismiss him if it was the case he was found to be corrupt.
The video in the article on Law & Order was taped a while before the Progressives gained power - in 2008/9. In fact the Progressives had just been established at this point. You'll have a difficult time convincing me they're at fault.
If the legal system isn't heavily politicised - which would be worse - the lack of arrests are not indicative of faults within the progressives.
The same as the direct above. In the article it also notes: "Judge Dragan Milosevic denied political pressure played any role in the reversal of the verdict". We can engage in speculation but that's about it.
You'll need to explain the link offered in the second article again.
That soft censorship is bad but I'm not of the opinion it would change under a different regime - You?
On the last article the first point worth making is that the pay-off occurred whilst the Progressives were junior in the coalition and 3 months into term.
Honestly it seems like the Socialists are inexcusably corrupt and the Progressives are implicated through forming a coalition with them in 2012 - 2014.

1st: It quite actually does because whenever a party wins here, they put their members on leading roles in state firms
2nd: Only the apartments in Bulgaria are being probed, the illegal privatization and the land he got off privatized land is not. Also I wouldn't believe our prime minister since he mentioned and promised many things and didn't do nothing. He also already passed the verdict on Mali's case by saying it's nonsense. He is at the same time the investigator, prime minister and the judge.
3rd: They are not at fault for that happening, but they are at fault for not investigating the corruption. Not to mention that these videos surfaced when they assumed power. The legal system is heavily politicized, the son of the director of TV "Pink" (the TV station which advertised the Progressive campaign the most) ran over a girl and killed her on the spot and he is charged with not providing her aid, even though he ran her over above the speed limit and while she was crossing on a pedestrian crossing.
4th: Yes, just like the mayor of Belgrade denied owning any land in Bulgaria and not even reporting it to the Agency which he by law must. Lies are here very easy to get away with.
5th: Actually, it would. While the Democratic Party was in power, no shows were taken down for talking bad about the regime. The progressives have passed a law allowing the police to document and store in a database every person on public meetings, took down shows immediately after criticizing prime minister Vucic.
6th: Yes, but even though Ivica Dacic was the prime minister, his vice prime minister was Aleksandar Vucic. He de facto ruled Serbia even though de jure Ivica had more power. De facto and de jure almost always are not sinonimous with each other, politics involved.

Not to mention that both Vucic and Dacic where in the corrupt governments of the nineties and are responsible for making our budget empty. Our Progressive Minister of Defense (who was an alleged coffee smuggler and has falsified that he finished highschool, not to mention he doesn't qualify) violated chain of command (he did not ask the chief of staff, he went straight to the air force commander) and during what was supposed to be a routine rescue, 7 people died. It was urged that the helicopter land in Belgrade, even though there were helicopter landing pads before the Batajnica military airfield. Then they urged that they land on the international airport and not their home base and due to differences in communicating altitude between civil and military airlines, the helicopter crashed. They pinned the whole crash on the pilots, saying they were drunk, even though the leading pilot was a Muslim Serb. His family protested that he never drank alcohol, and did not look like an alcoholic like they described him.

[dzoni]

So the elections are in late april, the one that matter. Presidential here are as important as royal succession in the UK, it's ceremonial. So who would you vote for if you were in my shoes? The elections are in late April, just in time for me to register as a voter and vote. There are a few options:

Serbian Progressive Party- just no, they fucked us up, they informally joined NATO and allowed them free reins on our territory, without a refferendum. Not to mention mass censorship of non-party friendly news and facts.

Socialist Party of Serbia- they always join the winning coalition, but I am not sure who will win.

The Gates- anti-EU, anti-NATO, anti-Eurozone, pro-Russian, despite being clerofascists they seem like a reasonable choice to me. Stick it up to NATO and the EU, we don't want to be another march on the Balkans and a buffer against Russia.

Democratic Party- corrupt thieves who were actually linning their pockets and damaging the country a lot less than the Progressives, it's just they've been blown off the scene.

Serbian Radical Party- shady, Seselj actually wants to form a coalition with the Progressives on a few conditions if they win.

'That's Enough!' Movement- also pretty shady, looks like faked opposition.

Union of Vojvodina Hungarians/any minority party- they get a few MPs by constitution plus the votes, just the coalition is the problem.

Democratic Party of Serbia- same like the Gates, they are just really shady since they are the ones who originally turned Serbia to the West.

New Democratic Party- exiles from the Democratic party, humble thieves when compared to thr Progressives.

Liberal-Democrat Party- their leader is a coke snorter and got rich in a shady way.

Alright to break this down from my side, as another Serb with a Serbian/Hungarian/Croatian roots.

Serbian Progressive Party they are relatively popular among old folk and those who know nothing about politics, which sums around 60% of our population. Honestly, mark my words, they will win again. Because if they didn't poll well, they wouldn't let the elections happen.

Socialist Party of Serbia, they always do coalitions and old folk love them. Because of the long gone, socialist days of Yugoslavia, that they seem to remember. The leader is quite shady, involved with Miskovic and other criminals/tycoons. I had a chance to meet him a couple of times, he's a real politician with a mask.

Democratic Party is dead in my opinion. I don't know why they even bothered to join the elections.

Serbian Radical Party, yeah no thanks. I don't know anything about them nor do I care.

'That's Enough!' Movement, never heard.

Union of Vojvodina Hungarians, this is a decent party. They are pretty nice, but they are small plus they don't plan to go out of Vojvodina.

New Democratic Party, this guys are just being ignorant. They held the government for 8 years and they want to do it all over again. GTFO

Liberal Democrat Party, these guys have the right idea. But they are lead by a very shady guy whom I just don't trust. Their target voters are the 18-35.

[Vlerchan]

1st: It quite actually does because whenever a party wins here, they put their members on leading roles in state firms
OK. Please provide evidence that since the Progressives have entered government in 2014 there has been a change in the top-brass of the national lottery. Thank you.

I'll add further though that unless this can be linked to gains for the Progressives it remains a dubious claim to me.

If voting Progressives also means more privatisation then I'm in greater support of them. This sort of politicisation of state-owned firms is awful.

Also I wouldn't believe our prime minister since he mentioned and promised many things and didn't do nothing.
The understanding I have is that a group within the civil service would investigate and this is happening regardless of whether the Prime Minister sanctions it. The Prime Minister was responding to it going ahead.

You are free - like always - to provide evidence of his interference.

[...] but they are at fault for not investigating the corruption.
In all modern democracies I can think of the government does not lead criminal investigations - the police service and the attorney general do. The fact that this implicates political officials is an even greater reason for the Progressives not to implicate themselves in it.

Not to mention that these videos surfaced when they assumed power
You'll need to explain the relevance.

The legal system is heavily politicized, the son of the director of TV "Pink" (the TV station which advertised the Progressive campaign the most) ran over a girl and killed her on the spot and he is charged with not providing her aid, even though he ran her over above the speed limit and while she was crossing on a pedestrian crossing.
Links please. I would also appreciate if you expanded on the ruling. What was his defence and what was the courts claims vis-á-vis his defence.

Yes, just like the mayor of Belgrade denied owning any land in Bulgaria and not even reporting it to the Agency which he by law must. Lies are here very easy to get away with.
I don't mind if you speculate I would just appreciate if it wasn't passed off as impartial fact.

[...] took down shows immediately after criticizing prime minister Vucic.
Links please.

Yes, but even though Ivica Dacic was the prime minister, his vice prime minister was Aleksandar Vucic. He de facto ruled Serbia even though de jure Ivica had more power. De facto and de jure almost always are not sinonimous with each other, politics involved.
I would appreciate if this was all expanded on. Preferably with English-language sources. [Not the de facto-de jure distinction]

What was the reason offered for the pay-off by the way?

Not to mention that both Vucic and Dacic where in the corrupt governments of the nineties and are responsible for making our budget empty.
Vucic has publically accepted that he made mistakes whilst he was in government during the late 1990s.

If the rest is true it has little to do with the Progressives being corrupt at the moment.

---

I would also appreciate indepth links on whatever is being stated. I have zero familiarity with Serbian domestic politics - so they're helpful in that regards - and it also saves you needing to type out the tome of Serbian political history probably required to facilitate this discussion.

[Porpoise101]

Union of Vojvodina Hungarians, this is a decent party. They are pretty nice, but they are small plus they don't plan to go out of Vojvodina.

Liberal Democrat Party, these guys have the right idea. But they are lead by a very shady guy whom I just don't trust. Their target voters are the 18-35.
If I was a Serb voter I think these two seem decent enough. Especially the Lib Dems because they are a good centrist party that isn't divisive.

As a side note, why are there Romanian and Hungarians in Serbia anyways? I figured they would have moved in the span of a hundred years.

[Stronk Serb]

If I was a Serb voter I think these two seem decent enough. Especially the Lib Dems because they are a good centrist party that isn't divisive.

As a side note, why are there Romanian and Hungarians in Serbia anyways? I figured they would have moved in the span of a hundred years.

Because Austria-Hungary. The Serbs fleeing north from the Balkans were settled along the Austro-Ottoman border to guard the empire in exchange for privileges and land. It just happened that they were settled by Austrians in lands where Hungarians and Romanians lived.
Vlerchan

About the other response, I will get you links and answers tomorrow evening.