Calling people racist for no reason?

[Stronk Serb]

Ok, so I saw a lot of people yelling racism and xenophobia on some ridiculous things. Here are a few examples:

a) All illegal imigrants in America should be prosecuted and deported
b) A Han Chinese cannot be European

Is this racist or xenophobic? I think not. Let me try to elaborate on these statements.

a) Is it fair to give all these privileges (suck it SJWs) the radical liberals preach (like an amnesty and getting residency or citizenship plus financial aid) to people who have no right to be where they are? Is it fair to the law-abiding immigrants who did all the paperwork and went through all of the checks? Is it okay to flip them the bird? What kind of message does it send? It sends the message that if you break the law you get rewarded.

b) Can a ethnic Irishman legitimately consider himself the descendant of the Chinese people and culture? No. He can be raised into the culture, but will never have the ethbic heritage a Han Chinese would have and vice versa.

This are not racist or xenophobic opinions. Racist and xenophobic is considering a race inferior and considering a culture inferior or bad. The fact that the "political correct" say so doesn't mean it is.

So do you agree with me? If not, elaborate why. If your political corectness sense is tingling, call me racist even though you cannot prove that claim.

[Vlerchan]

I have more non-Irish than Irish blood. Far as we can tell on the paternal line I'm for the most part Anglo-Irish [middle England - and with a bit of black and English traveller within the last number of generations] - and on the less researched maternal line I'm Half-Scotish and of considerable Norman descent. The likelihood is that I don't fit the blood quota to inherit Irish culture - but I do and no Irish person would doubt that. It's odd that Irish are mentioned in the OP at all considering that our nation is a product of considerable intermarriage with large historical in-migration.

Our identities are cultural facts and all attempts to frame it as a biological fact are consistently incoherent.

---

No one wants illegal immigration but as I've explained perhaps a half dozens times for people that value their current standard of living there's a point of no return been reached.

[Microcosm]

Couldn't you argue though that what's more important is how closely the culture of the immigrants and such matches that of a native-born citizen?

For instance, I consider African Americans to be just as American as anyone else.

In other words, does someone's genetic race effectively judge whether they fit with a certain nationality or not?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, though.

-

I'd also like to add that you're technically being a form of racist by categorizing people based on their race and then making judgements from that categorization; however, I don't think that's the form of racism that people should be against.

The real form of racism that should be shunned and fought by SJWs and humanity as a whole is the kind that degrades another race as sub-human or fundamentally lesser or inferior to another race. I believe that's been proved to be nonsense by history and by example of people of different races.

TLDR: I don't think you're doing anything wrong by suggesting a discussion on this.

[Stronk Serb]

I have more non-Irish than Irish blood. Far as we can tell on the paternal line I'm for the most part Anglo-Irish [middle England - and with a bit of black and English traveller within the last number of generations] - and on the less researched maternal line I'm Half-Scotish and of considerable Norman descent. The likelihood is that I don't fit the blood quota to inherit Irish culture - but I do and no Irish person would doubt that. It's odd that Irish are mentioned in the OP at all considering that our nation is a product of considerable intermarriage with large historical in-migration.

Our identities are cultural facts and all attempts to frame it as a biological fact are consistently incoherent.

---

No one wants illegal immigration but as I've explained perhaps a half dozens times for people that value their current standard of living there's a point of no return been reached.

Well, you don't need to be pure blood Irish, in some European nation-states that's nearly impossible. I emphasized on a blood link, as if you don't have one of your ancestors actually being Han Chinese, you cannot legitimately call yourself a Han Chinese, or for a better example, if you don't have any close German ancestors, you cannot legitimately call yourself German. In theory you can without the blood link, but that statement is not legitimate. I guess it depends on the culture, does it accept people of same culture and same ancestral ties, it also depends how deep the link has to run or if it has to run at al.On my example, my grandmother is Hungarian but I don't call myself Hungarian. I will learn the language, customs and get the citizenship and I will let the Hungarian community decide if I am to be called a Magyar (Hungarian) or a Szerb, if the majority of the Hungarians I meet accept me, I can legitimately call myself Hungarian. If not, I am a Serb.

Couldn't you argue though that what's more important is how closely the culture of the immigrants and such matches that of a native-born citizen?

For instance, I consider African Americans to be just as American as anyone else.

In other words, does someone's genetic race effectively judge whether they fit with a certain nationality or not?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, though.

-

I'd also like to add that you're technically being a form of racist by categorizing people based on their race and then making judgements from that categorization; however, I don't think that's the form of racism that people should be against.

The real form of racism that should be shunned and fought by SJWs and humanity as a whole is the kind that degrades another race as sub-human or fundamentally lesser or inferior to another race. I believe that's been proved to be nonsense by history and by example of people of different races.

TLDR: I don't think you're doing anything wrong by suggesting a discussion on this.

What I meant is the nation-states, like the European or Asian countries, where the majority is of one ethnic background. A Vietnamese man can for example have German natiomality (citizenship), but he cannot legitimatelly call himself an ethnic German. This doesn't apply for former colonial nations in the Americas and in Oceania because they are mixing a lot. Racism in essence is viewing one race as inferior and institutionally advocating that they be treated worse. That's sort of the dictionary definition I found. You sort of misunderstood me, I was cathegorizing, but I wasn't making any judgements. Just cathegorizing people by their racial and ethnic background, not passing any possibly prejudiced judgements except the obvious, the white race has pale skin, Asians have yellow toned skin and blacks have a dark tone skin. I would be overly generalizing and would be a hypocrite if I started judging whole races and ethnic groups. Do you think the SJWs of the Tumblr tribe are racist by saying whites can't be targets of racism, and advocating killing*of us?

[West Coast Sheriff]

Ok, so I saw a lot of people yelling racism and xenophobia on some ridiculous things. Here are a few examples:

a) All illegal imigrants in America should be prosecuted and deported
b) A Han Chinese cannot be European

Is this racist or xenophobic? I think not. Let me try to elaborate on these statements.

a) Is it fair to give all these privileges (suck it SJWs) the radical liberals preach (like an amnesty and getting residency or citizenship plus financial aid) to people who have no right to be where they are? Is it fair to the law-abiding immigrants who did all the paperwork and went through all of the checks? Is it okay to flip them the bird? What kind of message does it send? It sends the message that if you break the law you get rewarded.

b) Can a ethnic Irishman legitimately consider himself the descendant of the Chinese people and culture? No. He can be raised into the culture, but will never have the ethbic heritage a Han Chinese would have and vice versa.

This are not racist or xenophobic opinions. Racist and xenophobic is considering a race inferior and considering a culture inferior or bad. The fact that the "political correct" say so doesn't mean it is.

So do you agree with me? If not, elaborate why. If your political corectness sense is tingling, call me racist even though you cannot prove that claim.

You racist! I cannot believe what I just read.








Jk, I agree with you 100%. Not embracing to political correct terminology doesn't make you at all racist, just extremely sheltered.

[Stronk Serb]

You racist! I cannot believe what I just read.








Jk, I agree with you 100%. Not embracing to political correct terminology doesn't make you at all racist, just extremely sheltered.

I'm glad someone who is not from the VT "far-right kru" agrees with me. Sort of shows that right-wingers are not as extremist as the radical liberals claim.

[West Coast Sheriff]

I'm glad someone who is not from the VT "far-right kru" agrees with me. Sort of shows that right-wingers are not as extremist as the radical liberals claim.

What's the far-right kru

[Stronk Serb]

What's the far-right kru

Me, phuckphace and Exocet are the most active posters.

[Kahn]

Can one be considered an ethnic American, if they're not Native American, but their family has lived here for generations? My family's roots in this country span back to the early 1800's. I don't consider myself Scottish, or English, the countries my ancestors were said to have emigrated from. I feel as though I am purely American and it'd be wrong to identify as Scottish-American, English-American, or in broader terms, European American or Caucasian.

[Microcosm]

not passing any possibly prejudiced judgements

Yes that's what I meant by technically racist but not in the bad way. It's not prejudiced but it's categorization by race. I meant that people who would say this post is racist in a derogatory way aren't right in the assumption that you're trying to insult another race(because you're not, but just analyzing how racial ties relate to association with a country).

So I agree with you.

[Vlerchan]

I guess it depends on the culture, does it accept people of same culture and same ancestral ties, it also depends how deep the link has to run or if it has to run at al.
This is all I want to emphasise. There's no single approach that can be applied for all nations and clear-cut statements like "[a] Han Chinese cannot be European" as incorrect when we consider the range of approaches that can be taken. In Ireland we'd be quite quick to accept the Chinese that want to be considered Irish as being Irish. That in turn makes them European - at least in Ireland.

I agree that it is up to the host nation to initiate acceptance.

[Exocet]

Me, phuckphace and Exocet are the most active posters.

It's not about being "Hooligan far righters SS" as the medias are labeling us. (The European patriots.)
It's just common sense.

[Stronk Serb]

Can one be considered an ethnic American, if they're not Native American, but their family has lived here for generations? My family's roots in this country span back to the early 1800's. I don't consider myself Scottish, or English, the countries my ancestors were said to have emigrated from. I feel as though I am purely American and it'd be wrong to identify as Scottish-American, English-American, or in broader terms, European American or Caucasian.

Well, America is not a nation-state, like European countries are. Ask your fellow Americans, your cultural compatriots. They would know best.

Yes that's what I meant by technically racist but not in the bad way. It's not prejudiced but it's categorization by race. I meant that people who would say this post is racist in a derogatory way aren't right in the assumption that you're trying to insult another race(because you're not, but just analyzing how racial ties relate to association with a country).

So I agree with you.

Ah, okay. I view cultural preservation as a goal of any ethnic group. That's why I sort of dislike multiculturalism. They want to merge us and destroy our differences insteado of celebrating them.

It's not about being "Hooligan far righters SS" as the medias are labeling us. (The European patriots.)
It's just common sense.

Yeah, most far-righters I met are making argumented claims instead of what the liberal media says, that we are talking rhetoric and insulting us for no reason.

[Vlerchan]

That's why I sort of dislike multiculturalism. They want to merge us and destroy our differences insteado of celebrating them.
That's in fact the exact opposite of what multiculturalism intends. It rather desires to preserve ethnic differences of incoming migrants to the extent to which incoming migrants desire this end.

I feel as though I am purely American and it'd be wrong to identify as Scottish-American, English-American, or in broader terms, European American or Caucasian.
Out of interest, what does it mean to you to be 'purely American': what does it entail?

[Kahn]

Out of interest, what does it mean to you to be 'purely American': what does it entail?

Born and raised in the United States, cultured in American ways. Myself and my family included have no obvious or immediate relations with any other nation, or region of the globe, be it familial, political, financial, or social. None of my immediate family members are immigrants (brothers, parents, grandparents, cousins). We have records of my mother's side of the family residing in this country since before the Civil War, possibly as early as the War of 1812, and the Knight's (my father's side of the family) emigrated here in the early 20th century.

[Exocet]

Can one be considered an ethnic American, if they're not Native American, but their family has lived here for generations? My family's roots in this country span back to the early 1800's. I don't consider myself Scottish, or English, the countries my ancestors were said to have emigrated from. I feel as though I am purely American and it'd be wrong to identify as Scottish-American, English-American, or in broader terms, European American or Caucasian.

Ethnic European living America. Could we call the European immigrants in Australia "Ethnic Australian" ? I don't think so.

[Vlerchan]

[...] cultured in American ways [...]
This is more what I was looking for an expansion on. What makes an American american other than just geography.

---

I would also consider you an ethnic American given your lack of ties otherwise.

There's probably some word for the view of considering people X based on some embedded present-based narrative of the human race.

[Kahn]

This is more what I was looking for an expansion on. What makes an American american other than just geography.

I'd say geography and heritage are the major reasons I'm having trouble calling myself anything else but American.

But to answer your question, some things I'd consider to make up American culture, or to have been heavily influenced by American culture: North American sports like baseball, football, and hockey, being educated in the American school system, said school system's emphasis on individualism and (as you keep mentioning) the American narrative, listening to rap or hip hop, jazz, graphic novels, constant use of leisurely electronics, rampant materialism, would something as trivial as the lack of a bidet in my bathroom, or the steering wheel being found on the left side of the vehicle, be considered a part of the culture?

I realize everything I'be mentioned isn't strictly unique to the United States. They're simply the points I am familiar with. Take any one of those points exclusively and it can likely be attributed as having had some sort of impact on most Americans who were born and raised here. I'm not saying our culture is anything to be proud of, regretfully- I feel as though there are a lot of social and societal problems here in the States thanks to the culture of the people.

I apologize if this doesn't make any sense, I feel as though I rambled a bit.

[Stronk Serb]

That's in fact the exact opposite of what multiculturalism intends. It rather desires to preserve ethnic differences of incoming migrants to the extent to which incoming migrants desire this end.

Yes, it's desired purpose is peaceful coexistence, but when incoming minorities start making unjust demands, people cave in because it's either that or being called racist, which is not multiculturalist. Also cultures which are closer tend to get along better, making multiculturalism between them possible. I tend to bave a problem with minorities asserting dominance, which tends to be a minority within said minority.

[Vlerchan]

I'd say geography and heritage are the major reasons I'm having trouble calling myself anything else but American.
Least as I see it though that this geography and heritage is tied to a certain set of values or presumptions or else it wouldn't be meaningful.

I apologize if this doesn't make any sense, I feel as though I rambled a bit.
That was perfect. I find it amazing though to what extent that lifestyle has been exported to other states in the anglosphere like Ireland. I think really that defining what makes one a member of one nation is difficult to pin down though: it's all in those subtle mannerisms and associations that no-one pays attention to within their own cultures - by necessitation - I find.

I'd have a pretty difficult time pinning down what makes me Irish other than the material that already gets broadcasted around the world.

[...] but when incoming minorities start making unjust demands [...]
Please elaborate. Thank you.

Also cultures which are closer tend to get along better, making multiculturalism between them possible. I tend to bave a problem with minorities asserting dominance, which tends to be a minority within said minority.
I'm not claiming that multiculturalism is good or bad.

I was just noting that your previous representation of multiculturalism was incorrect.

[Desuetude]

Okay then, I'm kind of unsure of where you'd put me. I was born and raised in Britain by parents who moved here when they were under 5 years old, cultured in the completely stereotypical, 'white' English way with little to none of my ethnic Indian heritage playing a part in my upbringing but would you say that my race would cause me to be unviable to call myself British/English? This is a genuine question. Personally I don't think that your heritage has much to do with you as a person if you've been brought up in a completely separate culture, its null so should essentially be ignored.

[Stronk Serb]

I'm not claiming that multiculturalism is good or bad.

I was just noting that your previous representation of multiculturalism was incorrect.

Yeah, but I called it like that because the liberal media labels this mess as mulsticulturalism.

[Stronk Serb]

Okay then, I'm kind of unsure of where you'd put me. I was born and raised in Britain by parents who moved here when they were under 5 years old, cultured in the completely stereotypical, 'white' English way with little to none of my ethnic Indian heritage playing a part in my upbringing but would you say that my race would cause me to be unviable to call myself British/English? This is a genuine question. Personally I don't think that your heritage has much to do with you as a person if you've been brought up in a completely separate culture, its null so should essentially be ignored.

Well, depends what your compatriots say. It depends on the culture, some have more lax acceptance and some have stricter acceptance.

[Vlerchan]

Yeah, but I called it like that because the liberal media labels this mess as mulsticulturalism.
Would you be able to cite a Liberal source that uses the terms you made use of earlier to describe multiculturalism.

I googled 'what is multiculturalism' and 'the gaurdian' and got this hit first.

The word "multicultural" merely describes the presence of many cultures: it is just a fact. But we must accept that there is an explicit hierarchy and segregation within multicultural Britain. We live in a highly regional country with ethnic minorities disproportionately concentrated in urban centres, and diversity does not automatically produce a pluralist, cohesive and representative society – which is what I feel people associate with multiculturalism.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jun/17/multiculturalism-david-cameron-segregation

It seems to be the conservative magazines that define multiculturalism as you described. They then precede to oppose it.

Rod Liddle says in the Spectator that multiculturalism is a notion that cultures, no matter how antithetical to the norm, or anti-social, should be allowed to develop unhindered, without criticism.

Melanie Phillips takes this argument further in the Daily Mail, arguing that multiculturalism is a form of reverse-racism and "sickeningly hypocritical".

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-12381027

This sounds like a definitional strawman to me. Unless we can establish that those crafty liberals were up to this all along.