More Serbs Back Alliance With Russia as Support for EU Entry Falters Read more: http

[tovaris]

According to the latest poll by popular Serbian politics magazine New Serbian Political Thought, Serbs' support for the idea of joining the European Union is continuing its downward slide, while support for an undefined 'alliance with Russia', or for the country's neutrality, continues to grow.



http://cdn5.img.sputniknews.com/images/102933/64/1029336426.jpg



Interviewed by Sputnik Serbia, Djordje Vukadinovic, the editor in chief of the independent magazine, revealed that "at the moment, according to our research, support for joining the European Union stands at about 47%. Among that figure, 25% is the 'backbone' which has always been (and will remain) in favor of the EU."

Ultimately, he notes, "most respondents see in Europe a chance for a better future for the next generation, rather than a chance for themselves. However, undoubtedly, the number of Eurosceptics is growing."
Interestingly, when the question is not a yes/no proposition, but an explicit choice between the EU and Russia, the answers change. Also speaking to Sputnik Serbia, Srdjan Bogosavljevic, country manager for the Ipsos Strategic Marketing market research firm, explained why this is so.
"When one asks people: 'Are you for EU membership or for a union with Russia', the 'alliance with Russia' option (whatever it means), receives 20% more support than the EU."
"We are now finding," Bogosavljevic explained, "that a large number of people support both the EU and Russia. But when we force them to choose between them, about 15% choose the EU, while 33% choose Russia, and 35% step out in favor of neutrality."
In any case, Vukadinovic noted, "support for European integration has faced a slow but consistent decline. We see it drop from poll to poll, and now support is down to less than 50%."


Noting that there has been a marked spike in Euroscepticism, the magazine editor explained that "when we talk about those who support the European Union, this is a broad but fragile group. Eurosceptics on the other hand are much more implacable – much firmer in their convictions. Of the 45% of respondents who support the EU, only about half of them can boast such firm convictions."
"The rest are on the fence; after all, the ruling Serbian Progressive Party has evolved from a Eurosceptic to a 'Euroreformist' party, and voters followed their leader, who told them that it is necessary to join the EU."
The Serbian Progressive Party emerged in 2008 as a result of a split with the Serbian Radical Party –a Eurosceptic party which at the time was the country's leading opposition force.

Source:
http://m.sputniknews.com/politics/20160118/1033329044/serbia-europe-russia-opinion-polling.html

[Stronk Serb]

Screw the EU. We would be another Lithuania or Romania. Russia for the win.

[Porpoise101]

We would be another Lithuania or Romania.
I know Romania is not really the best country, but I thought that Lithuania is actually a fairly decent country with a standard of living comparable to Western countries in some ways. Not that I know that much about either though.

[Stronk Serb]

I know Romania is not really the best country, but I thought that Lithuania is actually a fairly decent country with a standard of living comparable to Western countries in some ways. Not that I know that much about either though.

Not really. Every country east of Germany and Austria has a considerably lower standard of living the more east you go, the worse. It's called the second world for a reason.

[Vlerchan]

You'll find that the Baltic states have much better HDIs than those states that decided to remain under Russia's thumb (Moldova - Belarus - Ukraine).

I also still can't understand what people see in Russia but whatever.

[Porpoise101]

You'll find that the Baltic states have much better HDIs than those states that decided to remain under Russia's thumb (Moldova - Belarus - Ukraine).

I also still can't understand what people see in Russia but whatever.
Honestly Belarus isn't really a country anymore; only 25% even speak Belarussian at home nowadays. And I think Moldova just does it to spite Romania honestly.

[tovaris]

Screw the EU. We would be another Lithuania or Romania. Russia for the win.

A plebiscite to become a republic of the Russian Federation.

I know Romania is not really the best country, but I thought that Lithuania is actually a fairly decent country with a standard of living comparable to Western countries in some ways. Not that I know that much about either though.

The baltic states were hit hard during the crisis. They had to cut public spending enourmosly, also meaning cutting public services. Best example is Estonia.

You'll find that the Baltic states have much better HDIs than those states that decided to remain under Russia's thumb (Moldova - Belarus - Ukraine).

I also still can't understand what people see in Russia but whatever.

How about Bulgaria? A NATO member where you can buy a nuclear war head on the black market easely.
Ukrain? the country bitching how russia is the big bad wolf while Putin feeds them so they dont di of? arent they the EU pet nowerdays?
Transdnistria just got new hospitals from Russia, Hows the situation like in american colony Kosovo?

Honestly Belarus isn't really a country anymore; only 25% even speak Belarussian at home nowadays. And I think Moldova just does it to spite Romania honestly.

How many Irish speak Galic? ( Vlerchan )

[Porpoise101]

How many Irish speak Galic? ( Vlerchan )
Fair point, but the business is already Russian dominated over there. If Russia invaded that instead of Ukraine, then it would actually have lots less outcry from the civilian population and the West. The current ruler is also kind of a jerk so even Putin could be good.

[tovaris]

Fair point, but the business is already Russian dominated over there.
/.../


The English crown also dominated Ireland.


https://image3.spreadshirtmedia.com/image-server/v1/compositions/111190111/views/1,width=235,height=235,appearanceId=66,backgroundColor=f9f9f9,version=1440417743/Freedom-for-Ireland!.jpg



/.../
If Russia invaded that instead of Ukraine, then it would actually have lots less outcry from the civilian population and the West.
/.../


What kind of propaganda do you get in the states (https://41.media.tumblr.com/a871c3a6dc025f13fcf1ff916290f7d1/tumblr_mwimblAoy31sul5q0o1_500.jpg)? When did Russia invade Ukraine? Also you do realize that the Ukrainian army is fighting Ukrainian civilians in this matter...???


https://vostokcable.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/donetsk-republic.png


/.../
The current ruler is also kind of a jerk so even Putin could be good.

As I remember Lukašenko is president, and Putin kind of likes him. That's why they made that trade and stuff union (Russian answer to EU)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Flag_of_Belarus.svg/900px-Flag_of_Belarus.svg.png

[Porpoise101]

When did Russia invade Ukraine? Also you do realize that the Ukrainian army is fighting Ukrainian civilians in this matter...???

Russia violated Ukrainian territory in Crimea. End of story. I don't want to have this arguement right now.

[tovaris]

Russia violated Ukrainian territory in Crimea. End of story. I don't want to have this arguement right now.

NATO violated and continues to violate Serbian air space and teritory.

And Krimea asked for Russia to come
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Flag_of_Crimea.svg/1200px-Flag_of_Crimea.svg.png
(Donesk and Slavjansk also aksed but Russia said no, because that would be an actual invasion, Krimea was arleda an autonomes republic)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Flag_of_Sloviansk.svg/800px-Flag_of_Sloviansk.svg.png

[Porpoise101]

Krimea was arleda an autonomes republic
Of Ukraine... Anyways let's get on topic

[tovaris]

Of Ukraine... Anyways let's get on topic

Yes lets:

NATO violated and continues to violate Serbian air space and teritory.
/.../



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Flag_of_Serbia.svg/1024px-Flag_of_Serbia.svg.png


http://static.lupiga.com/repository/attachment/filename/2566/mitrovica_krim.jpg
Notice how Serbia is written in Russian and Russia is written in Serbian.

https://41.media.tumblr.com/a871c3a6dc025f13fcf1ff916290f7d1/tumblr_mwimblAoy31sul5q0o1_500.jpg

[Exocet]

Of Ukraine... Anyways let's get on topic

When Crimea was given as a gift to Ukraine,nobody cared because they were living under the same entity. Until the USSR collapsed.....

And BTW,the vast majority of the Crimeans speak Russians and don't feel Ukrainian at all.

[Stronk Serb]

You'll find that the Baltic states have much better HDIs than those states that decided to remain under Russia's thumb (Moldova - Belarus - Ukraine).

I also still can't understand what people see in Russia but whatever.

Seeing how the governments of EU countries were for (there were popular protest against, France and Spain, I thank the protesters) the NATO bombings of Bosnia and Serbia, and then hypocriticaly giving us their "friendly hand" is you know, the final straw. You bomb our country, shit up our economy, put pro-EU leaders who shit up our lives even more, and then you expect us to join you?


Russia violated Ukrainian territory in Crimea. End of story. I don't want to have this arguement right now.

Crimea hosted a referendum with a pretty damn high amount of people voting for seccession and unification with Russia. Also, a large majority there are Russians. Isn't it a tad bit hypocritical that westerners supported the Croatian, Bosniak and Kosovar right of self-determination (through bloody war and genocide, mind you), but don't suport a popular, peaceful seccession and unification of Russians? Also what tovaris said about Kosovo. They are violating the UN security council decision 1244 which states that Kosovo is to remain in Serbia's borders. I guess I should be happy now that UNPROFOR is making a comeback. No more organ-trafficking druglords running rampant. When I look at the US foreign policy, they always support the locally worst trash ever.

[dzoni]

It's not like the EU gave us the reason. I mean since I've been in elementary school I can remember our political top having meetings with EU "officials", making deals, etc.. And very little was given in return. Our crisis when the floods came, the EU was like oh sure we'll give you 1 billion Euros. BTW you have to pay us back 900,000,000 with a low interest rate. Are you kidding me?

You guys/gals probably don't know this, but one of EU requirements is that you actually import GMO food. Guess what, down south, people grow their own veggies, fruits, hell they even keep pigs, cows, etc... Don't know about you guys, but I'd rather eat an organic tomato than some imported plastic.

-PLEASE read this with a Serbian accent-

We're being trialed for every crime we did or did not commit. And then the EU comes to us and is like, "ugh.. guys, we know you like russia and all, but we expect you to sanction them. Hell, we order you!". On what ground are you able to order us? Oh let me guess, you gona' hold it over our heads, like you do with Kosovo? Well guess what EU, go fuck yourself, when we're a part of your community then we'll talk. We didn't sanction it, but Russians decided to pull the plug. Because good old Bulgarians, sanctioned them instead of us.

I don't think Serbia should enter the EU, I don't think Russia should own us. Russians will fuck us, at some point for sure. And EU, bastards.. I think we should be neutral.

Even if we enter the EU, like someone fucks up with the paper work and they accidentally accept us, we're too corrupt. You can do almost anything here, when you know who to bribe - read - talk to.

[Porpoise101]

Seeing how the governments of EU countries were for (there were popular protest against, France and Spain, I thank the protesters) the NATO bombings of Bosnia and Serbia, and then hypocriticaly giving us their "friendly hand" is you know, the final straw. You bomb our country, shit up our economy, put pro-EU leaders who shit up our lives even more, and then you expect us to join you?

Crimea hosted a referendum with a pretty damn high amount of people voting for seccession and unification with Russia. Also, a large majority there are Russians. Isn't it a tad bit hypocritical that westerners supported the Croatian, Bosniak and Kosovar right of self-determination (through bloody war and genocide, mind you), but don't suport a popular, peaceful seccession and unification of Russians? Also what tovaris said about Kosovo. They are violating the UN security council decision 1244 which states that Kosovo is to remain in Serbia's borders. I guess I should be happy now that UNPROFOR is making a comeback. No more organ-trafficking druglords running rampant. When I look at the US foreign policy, they always support the locally worst trash ever.
I'm not saying the Kosovo issue is clean, I'm against NATO on that one. I wouldn't care if Russia annexed the half of Ukraine East of the Dneiper with consent from both parties. I'm mostly just against nations bullying each other for petty political gain on the world stage though. That goes for the US, Russia, and any other power at be. But with what I know about Serbia, it would actually be somewhat beneficial to join the EU's economic zone. If you guys don't, then don't. It seems that you are hanging on to the horrible past without thinking about the good that may come.

[tovaris]

I'm not saying the Kosovo issue is clean, I'm against NATO on that one. I wouldn't care if Russia annexed the half of Ukraine East of the Dneiper with consent from both parties. I'm mostly just against nations bullying each other for petty political gain on the world stage though. That goes for the US, Russia, and any other power at be. But with what I know about Serbia, it would actually be somewhat beneficial to join the EU's economic zone. If you guys don't, then don't. It seems that you are hanging on to the horrible past without thinking about the good that may come.
Slovenia has been in the EU since 04 no good times came no good times re to come. Serbia is building roads and railwais, our roads are crumbeling our trains go 40km/h

[Porpoise101]

Slovenia has been in the EU since 04 no good times came no good times re to come. Serbia is building roads and railwais, our roads are crumbeling our trains go 40km/h
I thought your economy was growing at 5% per year since 1991. Isn't that good? What has changed for the worst? All I know is that the drama with the refugees has destabilized it somewhat. If you guys are growing shouldn't you be able to make roads?

[Stronk Serb]

I'm not saying the Kosovo issue is clean, I'm against NATO on that one. I wouldn't care if Russia annexed the half of Ukraine East of the Dneiper with consent from both parties. I'm mostly just against nations bullying each other for petty political gain on the world stage though. That goes for the US, Russia, and any other power at be. But with what I know about Serbia, it would actually be somewhat beneficial to join the EU's economic zone. If you guys don't, then don't. It seems that you are hanging on to the horrible past without thinking about the good that may come.

Well, adopting the Euro and joining the EU will be the final nails to our coffin. We wouldn't really have an effect on how the Euro changes. Essentially what Germany couldn't conquer with tanks, it conquered with the Euro. We are thinking about good things, but we are not willing to sell our land, our souls and the souls of our children. Greece is switched to Euro and went to shit, Mkntenegro switched to Euro and went to shit.

I thought your economy was growing at 5% per year since 1991. Isn't that good? What has changed for the worst? All I know is that the drama with the refugees has destabilized it somewhat. If you guys are growing shouldn't you be able to make roads?

Yes, the economy has grown, but due to economic problems of the nineties, everybody's economy was pure shit. The wars, the sanctions... the only thing that can happen to the economy when it hits the bare bottom is to go up. So it went from shit, to a little less shit. Same with Serbia. For, at that time, a virtually non-existent economy, it's only normal that it starts to grow again. Due to inflation and shit, a pack of Lucky Strike which was smuggled was prized at 100bn dinars. You cannot expect us to forget what happened less than twenty years ago, forgive like nothing happened. Look at the West and East Slavs, they still hold grudges against Germany. China and the Koreans still hold grudges against Japan.

[dzoni]

Slovenia has been in the EU since 04 no good times came no good times re to come. Serbia is building roads and railwais, our roads are crumbeling our trains go 40km/h

That I cannot believe, two months ago I was driving very decent speeds on your avtocesta (A2 and A1) no problem. Not to mention the fact that you guys own half of Serbian private sector.

You should try the section from Croatia to Belgrade, drive over 120 km/h and you might end up in a ditch somewhere.

[tovaris]

I thought your economy was growing at 5% per year since 1991. Isn't that good? What has changed for the worst? All I know is that the drama with the refugees has destabilized it somewhat. If you guys are growing shouldn't you be able to make roads?

Your data is faulty man. Firstly what you say is impossible for Slovenia entered crisis following the fall of Yugoslavia. All the companies lost all those markets...
See here, how deep it went into - http://www.stat.si/statweb/pregled-podrocja?idp=29&headerbar=0
The railways haven't been properly serviced since the time of Yugoslavia. Since the ice rain disaster 2 years ago there is no passenger train Ljubljana-Koper since the 80s no train Ljubljana-Kočevje. What has the EU brought us but cost, neo-liberal dogma and orders from Bruxels.

That I cannot believe, two months ago I was driving very decent speeds on your avtocesta (A2 and A1) no problem. Not to mention the fact that you guys own half of Serbian private sector.

You should try the section from Croatia to Belgrade, drive over 120 km/h and you might end up in a ditch somewhere.

When was the last time you saw a new bridge on on Dnevnik RTS? Monday you say? Good. When was the last time a bridge became from 2 lanes to intermediately i lane featured by Dnevnik RTV SLO? Last week? interesting.

I know that highway intently, drive on it often, "natural speed limit". But the Chinees build new and new ones, to link our Serbia. This spring the train tracks ended at Belgrade, now new tracks link it once again to Niš. The trains can travell on new tracks at 100 while no train links Ljubljana to Triest and it takes me 3 hours to reach Opčine...

[Porpoise101]

Oh I have a question. So do you Serbs and Slovenes identify more with Russia or with Poland?

[tovaris]

Oh I have a question. So do you Serbs and Slovenes identify more with Russia or with Poland?

Waht? Why would anyone identify with Poland? (and by this I'm not saying Slovenians identify largely with Russia). Many people identify with Yugoslavia, at least in my circles.

I thought your economy was growing at 5% per year since 1991. Isn't that good? What has changed for the worst? All I know is that the drama with the refugees has destabilized it somewhat. If you guys are growing shouldn't you be able to make roads?

Your data is faulty man. Firstly what you say is impossible for Slovenia entered crisis following the fall of Yugoslavia. All the companies lost all those markets...
See here, how deep it went into - http://www.stat.si/statweb/pregled-podrocja?idp=29&headerbar=0
The railways haven't been properly serviced since the time of Yugoslavia. Since the ice rain disaster 2 years ago there is no passenger train Ljubljana-Koper since the 80s no train Ljubljana-Kočevje. What has the EU brought us but cost, neo-liberal dogma and orders from Bruxels.

[dzoni]

When was the last time you saw a new bridge on on Dnevnik RTS? Monday you say? Good. When was the last time a bridge became from 2 lanes to intermediately i lane featured by Dnevnik RTV SLO? Last week? interesting.

I know that highway intently, drive on it often, "natural speed limit". But the Chinees build new and new ones, to link our Serbia. This spring the train tracks ended at Belgrade, now new tracks link it once again to Niš. The trains can travell on new tracks at 100 while no train links Ljubljana to Triest and it takes me 3 hours to reach Opčine...

Alright, I'll give you that. But since we're on the topic of bridges, in Belgrade a bridge called Brankov Most one of the most used bridges, one side of the pedestrian area, the floor came off. They closed that section before even the Ada bridge was built, we're still waiting on that section to be fixed...

Gazela bridge, god forbid you ever enter the "rush hour" near there. The E75 passes through there and the load on that bridge is very high. The Ada bridge has 2+ times the capacity of Gazela bridge, yet it's almost always empty. They are looking to offload the E75 through it, however the project is only 60% or so done.

I won't even mention the tram bridge..

Waht? Why would anyone identify with Poland? (and by this I'm not saying Slovenians identify largely with Russia). Many people identify with Yugoslavia, at least in my circles.

Exactly my reaction. Why would we identify with Poland, I don't think we even have any special relations with them.

[tovaris]

Alright, I'll give you that. But since we're on the topic of bridges, in Belgrade a bridge called Brankov Most one of the most used bridges, one side of the pedestrian area, the floor came off. They closed that section before even the Ada bridge was built, we're still waiting on that section to be fixed...

Gazela bridge, god forbid you ever enter the "rush hour" near there. The E75 passes through there and the load on that bridge is very high. The Ada bridge has 2+ times the capacity of Gazela bridge, yet it's almost always empty. They are looking to offload the E75 through it, however the project is only 60% or so done.

I won't even mention the tram bridge..
/.../


Belgrade is a phenomena in itself, come round the city on ht half-ring, there is a part of a viaduct over it that is just there in the air no section before it no section after it.

Reguarding Gazela there is a simple rule D.O.N.T, meaning don't, don't use it, don't use it with foreign plates, don't use it with out of town plates, don't use it.

You are Belgradian aren't you?

[dzoni]

Belgrade is a phenomena in itself, come round the city on ht half-ring, there is a part of a viaduct over it that is just there in the air no section before it no section after it.

Reguarding Gazela there is a simple rule D.O.N.T, meaning don't, don't use it, don't use it with foreign plates, don't use it with out of town plates, don't use it.

You are Belgradian aren't you?

Yep, lived here since 1998.

[tovaris]

Yep, lived here since 1998.

Bèǒğrãdžan you say :P

[dzoni]

Bèǒğrãdžan you say :P

Beogradžanin pravi :D

[Stronk Serb]

Oh I have a question. So do you Serbs and Slovenes identify more with Russia or with Poland?

Kurwa or Cheeki Breeki? Will pick the Cheeki Breeki any time. The Slav world is a mess. Essentially, Croatia, Bosnia, Ukraine and Poland dislike Russia, while Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Belorussia and the Sorbs (Лужички Срби) like Russia. About the Czech, Slovaks and Slovenes I do not know. The only ones who like the Polish are the Hungarians because they have no historical territorial claims on each other. Also all Slavs, barring the Croats and those Ukranian neo-nazi minority dislike Germany. Still, I would rather be with Russia who haven't stabbed us in the back and have a lesser benefit than that of being in the EU with all those promised "benefits" and shit, only to have them stab us in our backs like some Bulgarian Komitas.

[tovaris]

/.../ About the Czech, Slovaks and Slovenes I do not know. /.../

Czechs sent their troops to parade in Moscow in '15. The american ambassador had something to say about it, but is now banned from Czech presidential palace.
In Slovenia each year more people commemorate the Russian chapel (https://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruska_kapelica).
This particular Slav blodeline (morava) is interesting

[Stronk Serb]

Czechs sent their troops to parade in Moscow in '15. The american ambassador had something to say about it, but is now banned from Czech presidential palace.
In Slovenia each year more people commemorate the Russian chapel (https://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruska_kapelica).
This particular Slav blodeline (morava) is interesting

Well, that's two more who like Russia.

[Porpoise101]

Waht? Why would anyone identify with Poland? (and by this I'm not saying Slovenians identify largely with Russia). Many people identify with Yugoslavia, at least in my circles.
No no I know you identify with your home country. But I was wondering this because Stronk Serb said that Slavs empathize with each other, so I was wondering if you guys liked one group over another.

[tovaris]

No no I know you identify with your home country. But I was wondering this because Stronk Serb said that Slavs empathize with each other, so I was wondering if you guys liked one group over another.

This will be the first discusion im my "diary" i just asked for.

But noone like poland because they denounce their slavan heritage. Ukrain is taken ower by NATO and fascizm soooo.... Croatia is evil. But we still all want to live in a socialistic panslavic enpire.
any clerer?

[Porpoise101]

This will be the first discusion im my "diary" i just asked for.

But noone like poland because they denounce their slavan heritage. Ukrain is taken ower by NATO and fascizm soooo.... Croatia is evil. But we still all want to live in a socialistic panslavic enpire.
any clerer?
I suppose. But how does Poland denounce it's heritage? And why is Croatia hated so much on VT? There are so many questions.

[tovaris]

I suppose. But how does Poland denounce it's heritage? And why is Croatia hated so much on VT? There are so many questions.

Because Poland hates russia for a milenia of on and of rule and reshaping of borders, they clame to not be slavs.
Croatians are #GenocidalManiac, I dont know bout VT but they ar in general disliked by YU, and since onlyYU care enouth to hate them and care enouth to mention them... Let me remind you of NDH, of Jesenovac, of the ethnic clensing in the 90s... The conplet destruction of the Histria people group who once strived for independence, their contdact within EU is even so bad the Danes want to kick them out, i mean seriously a country where they have sheep whore houses ants croatia out!

[Vlerchan]

How about Bulgaria? A NATO member where you can buy a nuclear war head on the black market easely.
Has a higher HDI than the regional average too.

Ukrain? the country bitching how russia is the big bad wolf while Putin feeds them so they dont di of? arent they the EU pet nowerdays?
Until quite late the Ukraine remained under considerable influence of the Kremlin. It finds itself in a civil war because it decided to execute a shift from this influence.

Transdnistria just got new hospitals from Russia, Hows the situation like in american colony Kosovo?
Kosovo has almost 3 times the GDP per capita as compared to Transdnistria.
Kosovo doesn't have the disastrously high rate of inflation that Transdnistria. Nonetheless it's deflation and persistent lowflation is problematic. It should never have joined the euro.
Transdnistria has a much lower rate of unemployment than Kosovo. Probably as a product of quite high gvt. expenditure levels. This will become harder and harder to maintain as inflation spirals - expectations adjusting.
Kosovo's debt to GDP is about 12%. Transdnistria is in the region of 112%.

Kosovo - from a brief look at some key economic indicators - seems like it might be in a much better position to advance and become a developed economy. Transdnistria looks set to remain a Russian dependencee forever.

How many Irish speak Galic? ( @Vlerchan )
It's about 5 - 10%. Irish culture has been pretty anglocised generally though.

Britain doesn't dominate it's business environment as much though. It's grip took a major hit during the economic wars of the 30s and subsequent tariffing.

When did Russia invade Ukraine?
It hasn't. The likelihood is that it backs separatist paramilitaries though.

For reference Russia can have the whole of Ukraine. I can do without more reactionaries in our Union.

Slovenia has been in the EU since 04 no good times came no good times re to come.
It's GDP per capita tripled between 2000 and 2008 and it began negotiations in 1998. It signed a free trade agreement as early as 1999. The actual transition into the EU had little impact. That's because the gains were made on the back of reforms that facilitated ascension.

Considering that Europe has stagnated since 2008 I don't find that a useful period of study for benefits of membership of the EU.

But the Chinees build new and new ones, to link our Serbia.
Just for people like Porpoise101 to note:

Linkage through the Balkans is a major component of the New Silk Road Economic Belt. Expect to hear a lot more about investment here.

You bomb our country, shit up our economy, put pro-EU leaders who shit up our lives even more, and then you expect us to join you?
If you can't beat 'em - join 'em - no? :P

I agree entirely about the euro though. It's a modern day gold standard that you don't want in on.

Don't know about you guys, but I'd rather eat an organic tomato than some imported plastic.
Then don't purchase GMOs. If you're so confident that 'down south' people would prefer to pay a premium for organic food then open up the markets and actually let them express that choice. If - in fact - they would prefer to eat GMOs and conserve their incomes for spending otherwise then you're not actually helping them here.

I'll add though that the EU has quite broad restrictions on GMO importation and growth.

---

I'm ignoring all the comments about conflicts in the Balkans.

That conversation never leads anywhere productive.

[tovaris]

Has a higher HDI than the regional average too.

/.../


Now i have to google HDI... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index)
Great a nother made up nomber luke GDP. You know they constantly adjust this sistems of calculation Slovenia GDP is now wery differently calculated tha in '91... Anywhoo bulgaria bad. Have you been to the new prize jems of EU, ever? You do realize EU just took them to make room for trash and dirt...


/.../
Until quite late the Ukraine remained under considerable influence of the Kremlin. It finds itself in a civil war because it decided to execute a shift from this influence.
/.../
/QUOTE]

Yes and Moscow ensured they didn't die of starvation, cold, and drown in debt. The civil war was largly triggered also by the fascist government in Kiev (baning of Russian language-so european)

[QUOTE=Vlerchan;3300441]
/.../
Kosovo has almost 3 times the GDP per capita as compared to Transdnistria.
/.../


I doubt the acurecy of that claim, the Kosovo GDP is surly obscured by US propaganda, and i doubt the Transdnistria GDP can at alll be calculated for the lack of data.


/.../
[list]
Kosovo doesn't have the disastrously high rate of inflation that Transdnistria. Nonetheless it's deflation and persistent lowflation is problematic. It should never have joined the euro.
/.../

Don't wory about the inflation the Transdnistrian Rubel is fixed to the Russian Rubel, as i recal.
You have to keep in acount Tran. has had time to acumulate inflation and debt since '91, Kosovo barely came into existence.
When did it join the Euro? To join the Euro you first must be a member state and than have healthy economy... (hungary to this day uses forints)


/.../
[list]
Transdnistria has a much lower rate of unemployment than Kosovo. Probably as a product of quite high gvt. expenditure levels. This will become harder and harder to maintain as inflation spirals - expectations adjusting.
/.../

Nah, inflation in such countries realy isnt that big of a deal, they are used to it and largy rely on foreighn curency, also a large portion of the population smugels stuf ower the borders...


/.../
[list]
Kosovo's debt to GDP is about 12%. Transdnistria is in the region of 112%.
/.../

More time to acumulate it. And you didnt count the money frown into Kosovo by USA.


/.../
Kosovo - from a brief look at some key economic indicators - seems like it might be in a much better position to advance and become a developed economy. Transdnistria looks set to remain a Russian dependencee forever.
/.../


Not if I can help it. Kosovois a part of Serbia. Same as Vojvodina, they bot have separatistic regimes, but are not countries in their own right.
Besides Kosovo is way to small, no actual industy, no production, once international aies leave they will die of. EU will never be able to take them in, if albnia anexes it there will be a large scail war. Its unrealistic to expect Kosovo to become an actual country. Their best bet is to remain US airforce base.


/.../
It's about 5 - 10%. Irish culture has been pretty anglocised generally though.

Britain doesn't dominate it's business environment as much though. It's grip took a major hit during the economic wars of the 30s and subsequent tariffing.
/.../


A nation seeses to be a nation once it loses it language.

IT is not state that binds us but our language.


/.../
It hasn't. The likelihood is that it backs separatist paramilitaries though.

For reference Russia can have the whole of Ukraine. I can do without more reactionaries in our Union.
/.../


Exactly. And I don't think they actively denied selling* them weapons, Russia sels balistic misiles to private firms for gods sake (every russian space rocket is simutanesly a balistic misile, wilst USa hasent made such universal space rockets since before Saturn VI)

*ower instalment, that start in 50years, with a 90% discount ;)

If Russia invaded Ukrain it would be victorious ower the army in 2 weeks.

Also budy, its not "our" union, its the german comonwealth.


/.../
It's GDP per capita tripled between 2000 and 2008 and it began negotiations in 1998. It signed a free trade agreement as early as 1999. The actual transition into the EU had little impact. That's because the gains were made on the back of reforms that facilitated ascension.

Considering that Europe has stagnated since 2008 I don't find that a useful period of study for benefits of membership of the EU.

/.../
Yeah, in '06 we switched to a new calculating metod after switching in '99 I think. GDP figures are never acurate, but even as a reference, you can see the dip deep into - in '09. Let me remind you we switched to € in '07 and were nolonge able to devalue our curency like we have been doing since '92. Joining the EU also ment leaving the SE Europe economic area (would have to check for actual name) Once again making trade with exYU more dificult. I mean who buis Gorenje washing machines? Germans? No, exYU buys them.

EU wants now for exampe to force us to impliment redicilous gun laws. EU forced us to credit Greece (we took out a loan do give a loan to Greece, at higher intrest than we loaned it!!!!). EU forced us to sell all national companies, once pried and joy of the working man and woman who built them from scrach. Austria and Italy deliberatly bipased Slovenia with the fast rail Beljak-Videm.

You still think EU is A OK?


/.../
If you can't beat 'em - join 'em - no? :P
/.../


You obviously don't know how the Slavs mind works. If you can't beat 'em, fight them to the last man woman and child!!!


/.../
I agree entirely about the euro though. It's a modern day gold standard that you don't want in on.
/.../


The € would make sence if EU had the bals to actuly stand up to USA, and even trade oin in €. That would make sence.


/.../
Then don't purchase GMOs. If you're so confident that 'down south' people would prefer to pay a premium for organic food then open up the markets and actually let them express that choice. If - in fact - they would prefer to eat GMOs and conserve their incomes for spending otherwise then you're not actually helping them here.

I'll add though that the EU has quite broad restrictions on GMO importation and growth.
/.../


When you have to feed your family with 200€/month at EU prices, you hardly have a choice.

GMOs are also crap cuz you have to buy poison and seed from the same guy, no conpatition. No real gins are made by GMO crops.

Also in Serbia that would mean the state could no longer give farmers seed to be payed harvest time. Farmers would no longer be able to grow their own seed...
but thats general GMOs are bad stuf of topic here...


/.../
---

I'm ignoring all the comments about conflicts in the Balkans.

That conversation never leads anywhere productive.

Cuz be beat you and you know it ;)

[dzoni]

Then don't purchase GMOs. If you're so confident that 'down south' people would prefer to pay a premium for organic food then open up the markets and actually let them express that choice. If - in fact - they would prefer to eat GMOs and conserve their incomes for spending otherwise then you're not actually helping them here.

I'll add though that the EU has quite broad restrictions on GMO importation and growth.


People down south, don't purchase food. They grow their own. That's the point you missed. Second, on the topic of organic. Tell me, what caused the organic food to be so expensive in the first place?
Same is in the north, but it's a little less common.

[Vlerchan]

Great a nother made up nomber luke GDP.
It's probably the most widely used indicator of welfare.

I find it a lot more worthwhile than referrals to recent infrastructural development.

Yes and Moscow ensured they didn't die of starvation, cold, and drown in debt. The civil war was largly triggered also by the fascist government in Kiev (baning of Russian language-so european)
Sure. Let's go with that.

This isn't undermining the previous claim I made.

I doubt the acurecy of that claim, the Kosovo GDP is surly obscured by US propaganda, and i doubt the Transdnistria GDP can at alll be calculated for the lack of data.
These scores are taken from the World Bank.

Don't wory about the inflation the Transdnistrian Rubel is fixed to the Russian Rubel, as i recal.
Having what's probably a ridiculously over-valued currency on top of high levels of inflation isn't a good thing.

That the inflation rate in Russia is 7.82 percent whilst the inflation in Transdnistrian is upwards 20 percent should be also setting off alarm bells.

You have to keep in acount Tran. has had time to acumulate inflation and debt since '91, Kosovo barely came into existence.
Inflation is calculated quarter-on-quarter.

The critique of the debt statistics is worth noting but doesn't undermine the point I derived from that statistic.

---

That nominal Transdnistrian debt also exists at that rate of nominal GDP in a state with such levels of inflation is a troublesome indicator of itself.

Nah, inflation in such countries realy isnt that big of a deal, they are used to it and largy rely on foreighn curency, also a large portion of the population smugels stuf ower the borders...
It's basically never a good thing to have a prospering shadow economy.

That people from Transdnistria are holding their incomes in foreign currency-denominated assets like Russian roubles as a hedge against inflation is a major indicator that the state is suffering from macroeconomic instability. It indicates that people don't trust investing in the Transdnistria economy-proper at all. It also the case that regardless if ransdnistria are holding their incomes in foreign currency-denominated assets their real wages still suffer a decline quarter-on-quarter insofar as I presume Transdnistria are paid in Transdnistrian dollars to tax returns can be filed.

That expectations have adjusted - that natives are used to it - is an almost certain negative insofar as it reduces returns on investment and thus hampers meaningful long-run development.

Not if I can help it.
You're but one consumer. Good luck.

Its unrealistic to expect Kosovo to become an actual country.
It seems to have a much larger potential than Transdnistrian.

http://cdn.tradingeconomics.com/charts/kosovo-gdp-per-capita.png?s=kossovogdppita&v=201601121627m&d1=19160101&d2=20161231

Here's Kosovo's GDP per capita growth path.

When did it join the Euro? To join the Euro you first must be a member state and than have healthy economy... (hungary to this day uses forints)
It adopted the euro in 2002 I believe. It's not an official member of the eurozone though.

A nation seeses to be a nation once it loses it language.

IT is not state that binds us but our language.
No. Nations construct themselves. We'll be Irish so long as we continue to believe we're Irish.

Exactly [they've sold them weapons]
Good to hear we can find agreement.

Yeah, in '06 we switched to a new calculating metod after switching in '99 I think. GDP figures are never acurate, but even as a reference, you can see the dip deep into - in '09.
You'll need to demonstrate this this had a significant impact on GDP per capita as calculated.

et me remind you we switched to € in '07 and were nolonge able to devalue our curency like we have been doing since '92.
I mentioned in my last post I don't agree with the Euro.

oining the EU also ment leaving the SE Europe economic area (would have to check for actual name) Once again making trade with exYU more dificult.
The EU has free trade or preferential trade agreements with most if not all of the ex-Yugoslavian states.

I should add though that Slovenia has quite a large exposure to international markets as-is. Exports-plus-imports is about 120% of GDP. Ireland - one of the most internationalised economies in the world: for reference - has exports-plus-imports of about 75% of GDP.

You can't complain on this front. You're selling more things to richer people.

[..] impliment redicilous gun laws.
I have no idea what these are but I'm probably cool with them.

EU forced us to credit Greece (we took out a loan do give a loan to Greece, at higher intrest than we loaned it!!!!).
I'm not sure I understand. Would you be able to link me to an English-language news article? Thank you.

EU forced us to sell all national companies, once pried and joy of the working man and woman who built them from scrach.
Generally fine with this.

You still think EU is A OK?
I have issues with the EU but you haven't touched a single one of them here.

The € would make sence if EU had the bals to actuly stand up to USA, and even trade oin in €. That would make sence.
Define: "stand up to the USA".

The euro also doesn't make sense regardless.

When you have to feed your family with 200€/month at EU prices, you hardly have a choice.
But you do - and in denying that choice - you're not leaving the families that would rather allocate resources elsewhere better off.

GMOs are also crap cuz you have to buy poison and seed from the same guy, no conpatition. No real gins are made by GMO crops.
If GMO markets were as deleteriously uncompetitive as indicated here then prices would rise and people could substitute for non-GMOs.

There's also plenty of innovation in terms of GMOs to be had.

---

People down south, don't purchase food. They grow their own. That's the point you missed.
Letting people purchase GMOs wouldn't stop them choosing to grow their own if that remained preferable. The point I made stands regardless.

Tell me, what caused the organic food to be so expensive in the first place?
Organic food is more expensive in large because [1] it's production is more labour intensive [2] harvests take longer and is thus its production is more management intensive [3] there tends to be more subsidies for conventional farmers [4] the supply-chains for conventionally farmed goods are more efficient [5] the farms tend to be smaller.

[tovaris]

It's probably the most widely used indicator of welfare.

I find it a lot more worthwhile than referrals to recent infrastructural development.
/.../


Go ask Kim Džon how high it is in True Korea, you'll find the're doing better than the USA & China combined.



/.../
Sure. Let's go with that.

This isn't undermining the previous claim I made.
/.../


What I'm saying is that EU (eg. Bruxels) is being hypocritical, in EU we respect national minorities. But when Ukraine does it it is because "Russia bad".



/.../
These scores are taken from the World Bank.
/.../


Pleas don't get me started on the World Bank and why it isn't a reliable unbiast source of data (*khm* ameriška propaganda *khm*)



/.../
Having what's probably a ridiculously over-valued currency on top of high levels of inflation isn't a good thing.
/.../


Tell that to... Eurozone, BiH, ... ...


/.../
Having what's probably a ridiculously over-valued currency on top of high levels of inflation isn't a good thing.

That the inflation rate in Russia is 7.82 percent whilst the inflation in Transdnistrian is upwards 20 percent should be also setting off alarm bells.
/.../


I recall a time when prices were talked about in Deutsche Marks (DEM) when buying car or a house the price would be negotiated in DEMthe cost of living would be talked about in DEM. Our parents recal a time when the price of eggs on the market was in DEM when you would actually pay for things in DEM. People adapt you see.
Such an inflation centrally isn't healthy for the economy, but is merely a neusence to the popules.


/.../
Inflation is calculated quarter-on-quarter.

The critique of the debt statistics is worth noting but doesn't undermine the point I derived from that statistic.
/.../


Yes i know that, or at least i have to know it by the 26th... But one increasing inflation gets roiling its hard to stop it. And I stil doubt the accuracy of the data, i mean how can we get a accurate data from Transdnistria...


/.../
That nominal Transdnistrian debt also exists at that rate of nominal GDP in a state with such levels of inflation is a troublesome indicator of itself.
/.../


So does that of Greece and USA


/.../
It's basically never a good thing to have a prospering shadow economy.

That people from Transdnistria are holding their incomes in foreign currency-denominated assets like Russian roubles as a hedge against inflation is a major indicator that the state is suffering from macroeconomic instability. It indicates that people don't trust investing in the Transdnistria economy-proper at all. It also the case that regardless if ransdnistria are holding their incomes in foreign currency-denominated assets their real wages still suffer a decline quarter-on-quarter insofar as I presume Transdnistria are paid in Transdnistrian dollars to tax returns can be filed.

That expectations have adjusted - that natives are used to it - is an almost certain negative insofar as it reduces returns on investment and thus hampers meaningful long-run development.
/.../


Look at Montenegro, they built a nation on smuggling.

Dood people of Slovenia use to have a lot of DEM as long as '04. In Serbia it is common to pay large (usually untaxed) amounts in €. This is a common practice all around the world.
And wages are always adjusted to the inflation, remember transdnistria is still in Soviet union and is a soviet. tehnicaly. Wages in all normal countries are either adjusted to the inflation or the inflation is adjusted to the wages. And since they buy at moldavian priced with adjustment for Russian inflation, since the curency is linked to the actual Rupel, they are not so bad of.
And living in such an aconomy people will usualy immediatly buy stabile curency when they recieve their wage. Its simpe, if entire YU could do it so can Transdnistria.

Yes, its an inviorment where its not smart to invest into, and noone does. Party because its recognized as y country by Russia and South Ostesia only... But they have been functioning since '91.
I mean Montenegro is just fine, even invited to NATO and they are not much better off.


/.../
You're but one consumer. Good luck.
/.../


I am but one general.


/.../

It seems to have a much larger potential than Transdnistrian.

image (http://cdn.tradingeconomics.com/charts/kosovo-gdp-per-capita.png?s=kossovogdppita&v=201601121627m&d1=19160101&d2=20161231)

Here's Kosovo's GDP per capita growth path.
/.../


This image is wery suspitious. No dip after '08? I call bulshit, either this is propaganda or artifitialy sustaned GDP.

http://www.stat.si/statweb#graphBDP

http://www.stat.si/statweb#graphBDP


/.../
It adopted the euro in 2002 I believe. It's not an official member of the eurozone though.
/.../


Ah that, that's nothing special. Montenegro has been using € from the get go. Before the € the used DME. Zimbabve uses $ many countries in fact use $.


/.../
No. Nations construct themselves. We'll be Irish so long as we continue to believe we're Irish.
/.../



The Irish are a lost cause, many nolinger identify with nation but with country. Maybe not conpletly lost, if you implimate mandatory gGalin in all 8 years of primary school and 4 of secondary, do this for 5 generations it might work.


/.../
Good to hear we can find agreement.
/.../


Russia will sell weapons to anyone, thats realy not special.


/.../
You'll need to demonstrate this this had a significant impact on GDP per capita as calculated.
/.../


significent enouth: ISBN 978-961-235-291-2 pg.:228


/.../
You can't complain on this front. You're selling more things to richer people.
/.../


Slovenias economy has alwais been export oriented. Ok again the customes changed making it more dificult to trade with exYU. I aks you will a german buy a Gorenje washing machine, or Radenska water, or Peko shooes? No they will buy german shit, while we at € production prices have to sell to a dinar buying market.


/.../
I have no idea what these are but I'm probably cool with them.
/.../


This is ongoing: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-6110_sl.htm
We alredy have great gun laws in slovenia, but now they want to make it virtualy impossibe for the nation to protect themselves. Basicly make the wole EU like France.


/.../
I'm not sure I understand. Would you be able to link me to an English-language news article? Thank you.
/.../


The government of Borut Pahor (in power at the time of The 1st bailout for Greece) went to "international markets" to borrow money, so they could give money to bail out Greece. The intrest rate we borrowed it was higher than the intrest rate intended, not to mention EU now scraped the debt.

this was too long ago to fing a slovenian artice let alone an englis one.


/.../
Generally fine with this.
/.../


We sold our national aviator for -3,1 milion €

http://neurope.eu/article/slovenia-sells-its-national-airliner/


/.../
Define: "stand up to the USA".

The euro also doesn't make sense regardless.
/.../


Sever NATO, not sign any transatlantic shit, and use the power of a continents curency to bancrupt USA and take control of the oil market


Vlerchan here you go

[Vlerchan]

Go ask Kim Džon how high it is in True Korea, you'll find the're doing better than the USA & China combined.
That's the reason I don't care for your own insights as a true measure of a state's position. HDI takes in multiple quantifiable measures and is accepted in all spheres of policy-making.

What I'm saying is that EU (eg. Bruxels) is being hypocritical, in EU we respect national minorities. But when Ukraine does it it is because "Russia bad".
The EU doesn't respect national minorities. Look at the situation in the Catalan for example.

Pleas don't get me started on the World Bank and why it isn't a reliable unbiast source of data (*khm* ameriška propaganda *khm*)

It's never been an argument to put the points against you down to a conspiracy by evil american imperialists.

Tell that to... Eurozone, BiH, ... ...
I have no idea who the BiH refers to.

The Eurozone is in the grips of severe low inflation and is facilitating the devaluation of it's currency.

It's opposite to the issue I highlighted.

People adapt you see.
Yes. Which is the basis to the point I'm making. High inflation encourages higher inflation in the next period. This is because people's expectations adapt to the current rate of inflation and that fosters an environment where people are willing to reduce savings and increase consumption.

It hampers investment because it destabalises economies and makes returns on investments less certain. Being as in the long run international investment decisions are more-or-less perfectly elastic you're met with a situation where investors all swap-out of their most uncertain assets for more assets in more certain environments.

But one increasing inflation gets roiling its hard to stop it.
Yes. It's going to be real painful getting Transdnistria back on track.

i mean how can we get a accurate data from Transdnistria...
I imagine their government collects the data. It would be quite difficult to commit to policy matters otherwise.

So does that of Greece and USA
Greece is a basket case. That Greece is experiencing something is actually an argument against the point.

The national debt in the U.S. has also been highlighted as problematic. But given that the dollar is an international reserve currency that grants it a much larger scope to deal with a high national debt.

Nonetheless you missed the point. The point was that Transdnistria is recording this massive national debt alongside huge levels of inflation. The U.S. and Greece had quite low levels of inflation.

Look at Montenegro, they built a nation on smuggling.
Feel free to find a paper that quantifies the impact of the black market in Montenegro on the nations growth path.

This is a common practice all around the world.
I agree. It's still a bad indication though. When committed in excessive amounts it's indicative of a toxic environment.

And wages are always adjusted to the inflation[.]
I would appreciate a verifiable source here.

NATO also isn't an economic union so I'm not sure what the relevance there is.

Wages in all normal countries are either adjusted to the inflation or the inflation is adjusted to the wages.
In the long-run wages usually adapt upwards for inflation. Particular situations where this won't occur is when the inflation has resulted in a poor economic outlook or a contraction in the gross domestic product.

Inflation also doesn't necessarily adjust for wages. Though wage growth can be inflationary on the demand-side.

they buy at moldavian priced with adjustment for Russian inflation, since the curency is linked to the actual Rupel, they are not so bad of.[/quote]
Would you mind expressing this in different terms. I don't understand. Thank you.

This image is wery suspitious. No dip after '08? I call bulshit, either this is propaganda or artifitialy sustaned GDP.
Here is the graphs for GDP and GDP growth. It's from the same source.

http://cdn.tradingeconomics.com/charts/kosovo-gdp.png?s=kossovogdp&v=201601121627m&d1=19160101&d2=20161231

http://cdn.tradingeconomics.com/charts/kosovo-gdp-growth-annual.png?s=kossovogdpate&v=201601121627m&d1=19160101&d2=20161231

Kosovo has quite a low exposure to economic markets - in terms of exports - so the global economic downturn wouldn't have had too high an impact on it.

Your links are also broken.

Ah that, that's nothing special. Montenegro has been using € from the get go. Before the € the used DME. Zimbabve uses $ many countries in fact use $.
Lots of states do it in cases where it will produce greater macroeconomic stability.

The Irish are a lost cause, many nolinger identify with nation but with country. Maybe not conpletly lost, if you implimate mandatory gGalin in all 8 years of primary school and 4 of secondary, do this for 5 generations it might work.
Irish is mandatory from ages 4 until 18. It's mean like this for 3 generations and we're seeing smaller numbers of people speaking Irish. This is because it's not essential to out national identification.

Russia will sell weapons to anyone, thats realy not special.
It is when it's to terrorists and in the amounts that are being supplied.

You'll also need to provide evidence that these are being sold and on what form of credit. I checked over some sources and it doesn't seem to support the claim.

significent enouth: ISBN 978-961-235-291-2 pg.:228
Please quote the relevant information. Thank you.

I presume you're referring to [i]Temelji ekonomije but I can't access the full version.

Ok again the customes changed making it more dificult to trade with exYU.
Like I said: selling to richer people isn't a bad thing. It seems to have no impact on the gains to gross domestic product from exports.

http://cdn.tradingeconomics.com/charts/slovenia-exports.png?s=svtbexe&v=201601142307m&d1=19160101&d2=20161231&url2=/slovenia/gdp

I aks you will a german buy a Gorenje washing machine, or Radenska water, or Peko shooes? No they will buy german shit, while we at € production prices have to sell to a dinar buying market.
I'm genuinely not seeing the problem here. You're stills selling considerable amounts to Germans and I don't think it's relevant that's not applicable across all industries.

Basicly make the wole EU like France.
The Bataclan attackers acquired their weapons in the Balkans. Having unharmonised firearm regulations across a free movement zone is madness.

I don't have a problem with a single on of those provisions.


We sold our national aviator for -3,1 milion €
It was running a 5 million euro deficit. The article seemed to indicate that it was going to go bankrupt regardless.

Sever NATO, not sign any transatlantic shit, and use the power of a continents curency to bancrupt USA and take control of the oil market
Until there's a joint European armed forces we'll never see an end to NATO - which I'll add is perhaps one of the most successful military alliance in history.

How do you "use the power of a continents curency to bancrupt USA" with a currency that's never came close to the same degree of international use.

[tovaris]

/.../


Lets put a pause in this conversation, we got a tad bit :offtopic:

And you are incredibly exhausting with your demand for sources. This is not an academic discussion man!

Anywhoo, I'm waiting for my personal subforum to get started and i promise i will reboot all 3 discussions we are having there.

[dzoni]

w/e


So I'm gonna slam-dunk your whole post as you are getting a little off topic and hard to follow.

Point is, the Serbian nation is not as interested in getting into the EU as you might believe. I talk to many people, in big cities, in villages. And all of them say this: "meh, what good can they do us?".

And CERTAINLY after how the EU treats us like garbage. But then again we are war criminals after all, right?

[Vlerchan]

Point is, the Serbian nation is not as interested in getting into the EU as you might believe. I talk to many people, in big cities, in villages. And all of them say this: "meh, what good can they do us?".
That's fine. The point I'm making isn't that Serbia should be in the EU but rather that I find the affection for Russia amongst users like Stronk Serb incomprehensible.

[Stronk Serb]

That's fine. The point I'm making isn't that Serbia should be in the EU but rather that I find the affection for Russia amongst users like Stronk Serb incomprehensible.

Seeing how on the backstab tally, the EU/USA are leading by 4 to 0 compared to Russia, it's only obvious that I support Russia, like the majority of the Serbian people. I don't see blind support as good, but better to have a fewer benefits than to be backstabbed.