Taharrush now spreads to Europe !

[Exocet]

The Arabic gang-rape 'Taharrush' phenomenon which sees women surrounded by groups of men in crowds and sexually assaulted... and has now spread to Europe

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3395390/The-Arabic-gang-rape-Taharrush-phenomenon-sees-women-surrounded-groups-men-crowds-sexually-assaulted-spread-Europe.html
-
Thank the elites for importing immigrants and rapefugees. Cologne was just the beginning.

[Miserabilia]

Okay so before you get on your rididulous "Thank the elites for importing immigrants and rapefugees. " high horse atleast look at the situation realisticly.

A few hundred women were sexualy assaulted to some extent in Colognes during new years, most of them reported middle eastern looking men.

How do you take this, and turn it into the conclusion "middle eastern refugees are bad!!!!!!!!".

Please feel free to explain because you seem to know all about it.

[Exocet]

Okay so before you get on your rididulous "Thank the elites for importing immigrants and rapefugees. " high horse atleast look at the situation realisticly.

A few hundred women were sexualy assaulted to some extent in Colognes during new years, most of them reported middle eastern looking men.

How do you take this, and turn it into the conclusion "middle eastern refugees are bad!!!!!!!!".

Please feel free to explain because you seem to know all about it.

Ah ! Our humanist/pro-rapefugees/pro-Europedestruction is here,i missed you really.

[Miserabilia]

Ah ! Our humanist/pro-rapefugees/pro-Europedestruction is here,i missed you really.

Yes, sooo an answer?

[Exocet]

Yes, sooo an answer?

Ur buddies at work.


Germany: Migrants' Rape Epidemic

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6527/migrants-rape-germany

[Stronk Serb]

Miserabilia


Just open the "Europe" section. Soon to be Europistan. Also pay attention to Switzerland, Germany, Sweden, Finland and Norway.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime

[Miserabilia]

Ur buddies at work.


Germany: Migrants' Rape Epidemic

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6527/migrants-rape-germany

Yes, a bunch of isolated incidents and a conclusion.

I'm asking for a logical, statistical arugment here,
that uses unbiased objective sources.

Miserabilia


Just open the "Europe" section. Soon to be Europistan. Also pay attention to Switzerland, Germany, Sweden, Finland and Norway.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime

>open the europe section

A 2015 study found that the increase in immigration flows into western European countries that took place in the 2000s did "not affect crime victimization, but it is associated with an increase in the fear of crime, the latter being consistently and positively correlated with the natives’ unfavourable attitude toward immigrants."

well you've really convinced me chief.

Okay, I'm looking at those countries.
I'm looking at my own country.
Ohhh boy it's sooo terrible here :rolleyes:

[Stronk Serb]

Yes, a bunch of isolated incidents and a conclusion.

I'm asking for a logical, statistical arugment here,
that uses unbiased objective sources.



>open the europe section



well you've really convinced me chief.

Okay, I'm looking at those countries.
I'm looking at my own country.
Ohhh boy it's sooo terrible here :rolleyes:

For many countries the article said that immigrants had double if not larger chances of commiting crime. My friend from Stuttgart says it's a nightmare over there with immigrants.

[Exocet]

Miserabilia Yeah go tell to the thousands of girls (and boys ?) raped or sexually abused by rapefugees "Muh,it's just isolated cases,it's not that bad!".
Or to the 1.400 British girls by good and highly skilled migrants. :lol:

[phuckphace]

yeah just a few isolated incidences, like school shootings in Murica

[Jinglebottom]

What a disgrace.

[sqishy]

The Arabic gang-rape 'Taharrush' phenomenon which sees women surrounded by groups of men in crowds and sexually assaulted... and has now spread to Europe

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3395390/The-Arabic-gang-rape-Taharrush-phenomenon-sees-women-surrounded-groups-men-crowds-sexually-assaulted-spread-Europe.html
-
Thank the elites for importing immigrants and rapefugees. Cologne was just the beginning.

What the fuck?

Explain please how the people fleeing rape, bombing, starvation, drowning, degradation and overall crap thrown at them by ISIL/ the west (i.e. us) are equivalent to the extreme minority of the actual rapists you speak of.

Using analogy (which I shouldn't really), that is me saying that every US citizen is a gun-toting mass shooter.

[Exocet]

What the fuck?

Explain please how the people fleeing rape, bombing, starvation, drowning, degradation and overall crap thrown at them by ISIL/ the west (i.e. us) are equivalent to the extreme minority of the actual rapists you speak of.

Using analogy (which I shouldn't really), that is me saying that every US citizen is a gun-toting mass shooter.


Is that a reason to flee like cowards instead of fighting their own problems ?
Better to resolve the problems within our borders than importing even more problems.
-
BTW,The filth coming to Europe should either go to the arab countries and Turkey that actively participated in the destruction of Syria. Send them also to the US/UK,which are at 90% responsible for the actual mess in the M.E. (Not saying it was a heaven before,but was in a better state that right now.)

[sqishy]

Is that a reason to flee like cowards -

I'm leaving it there. If it's cowardly to flee what things I said, then I don't know what kind of world, expectations and responsibilities you want. This isn't World of Warcraft or whatever, where we watch from our audience position on pedestals. If your sense of pride is this big, then idfk.


Better to resolve the problems within our borders than importing even more problems.

Seeing people as goods and products that happen to breathe and shit, is not necessary. This is the impression I am getting - please clarify I am wrong.

If we leave problems outside the borders, then it leaves more space for the possibility that it ends up becoming a bigger problem that blows through the border in the form of disease or war.

I totally get the argument for only dealing with what's going on within borders, but be coherent with it. This means no military or aid action abroad unless with complete consent (and not through formal visits where you sit on a sofa and shake hands - I mean consent of the population). Be coherent.

BTW,The filth -

Nope, stopping you there too.

All I'm getting is huge amounts of emotions at the heart of this. Please say what is not insulting about 'filth'. Please say why, if it is an insult, it is necessary.

[Exocet]

Paraxiom It's up to them to fight for their country,to make their country a better place,and it's not fleeing like cowards (And illegally violating borders,rioting,raping) to countries that are thousands kms away that will change something.

Talking about consent of the population,why don't the elites ask about our opinion ? Don't we have anything to say about this mess ?

[Miserabilia]

For many countries the article said that immigrants had double if not larger chances of commiting crime. My friend from Stuttgart says it's a nightmare over there with immigrants.

Immigrants commiting more crime is a well known statistic, this doesn't say anything from middle eastern refugees at this moment.
Your friend is stuttgart is biased. I go to school with refugees, live in a town with refugees, absolutely no probems.
The moment one of them even does one thing wrong everyrone is all over their ass, they're pretty much scared of speaking out about anything, the ones that do are immediately branded ungrateful etc.


Miserabilia Yeah go tell to the thousands of girls (and boys ?) raped or sexually abused by rapefugees "Muh,it's just isolated cases,it's not that bad!".
Or to the 1.400 British girls by good and highly skilled migrants. :lol:

oh boy the thousands of girls and boys raped;
and what do you tell the milions of women raped by european nationals?
Yes there has been sexual assaults by reportedly middle eastern refugee men, it's not like rape is suddenly new.


Even IF there is a sudden "rape" epidemic and it is 100% caused by middle eastern refugee men, you can atleast have cannada's attitude and simply don't allow single men to enter only men with families or women and or children.

yeah just a few isolated incidences, like school shootings in Murica

Not exactly sure what your point is.
You can statisticly see why people would suggest not having easy gun acces in the USA, I haven't ever been statisticly demonstrated why we shouldn't allow any middle eastern refugees in. Logicaly I can argue why we should, for example to not have the last people from syria that don't hate the west already start to hate us when they reach a border and supposed to do what; turn back? The only way to stop new extremism and allow them to be culturaly integrated is to treat them like normal human beings and not in fear, speaking from personal experience.
That's why I can argue why we should let them in atleast a majority of them.
Even though it's unrelated and we should save it for a different thread, there's no good or statistical arguments for keeping guns easy acces, most arguments are based on "taking them away wont work anyway", or "ciminals will just get knives instead", all to oppose the other side but no actual positive arguments for keeping guns easy acces.




Is that a reason to flee like cowards instead of fighting their own problems ?
Better to resolve the problems within our borders than importing even more problems.


Lmao... Yeah I bet that's what you would do, ever so bravely fight for your country. If you do, guess what, you're the exception. You see your country being torn apart by civil war, see bombings and attacks on the news, people being shot for refusing to accept an extremist ideology that you don't accept either; what do you do? You leave. These are people that can leave, therefore they do.
Again, don't have to be a genius to see their logic there.
Saying they shouldn't enter because "they should just fight to defend themselves!" isn't a very good argument, you can't force them to fight, you'll just be refusing them entry and causing a bunch of people to wait outside your borders.


Send them also to the US/UK,which are at 90% responsible for the actual mess in the M.E. (Not saying it was a heaven before,but was in a better state that right now.)

This is true, but getting to US and Uk is very difficult, most refugees build up in camps near crossings of the sea ( like at france, the camp of migrants near the boats. ) airlines and public transport doesn't allow them travel so they end up stuck on the way. Even if they find a way in, US hasn't exactly been free to allowing them in.

[Exocet]

Miserabilia What's your plan exactly to deal with them ? Want to know really.

[Vlerchan]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime[/url]
The data on Denmark and Finland was foreign language. I found to record of the statistics cited. Would you mind finding English language sources for these anyways.

---

The data on France reads.

Using French data, we find that the share of immigrants in the population has no significant impact on crime rates once immigrants' economic circumstances are controlled for, while finding that unemployed immigrants tend to commit more crimes than unemployed nonimmigrants.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13504850701578892

I would imagine increased levels of alienation explains high crime amongst unemployed.

---

The German source concluded (p. 23) "[t]hese findings suggest that the impact of immigrants on crime depends crucially on the socioeconomic environment of the receiving region" (https://editorialexpress.com/cgi-bin/conference/download.cgi?db_name=ESPE2014&paper_id=441). Then the page precedes to source 2015 data in an attempt to debunk the idea that a disproportionate number of immigrants are criminals.

Then it cites the Daily Mail. I don't open those articles. You're free to track down the source study there though.

---

The Greek source doesn't support the claim at all. It's also a news article that makes no attempt to undertake a rigorous analysis of the data regardless.

---

The Italian data points to the fact that immigrants commit 35% of crimes. Like before it's It's a news article that makes no attempt to undertake a rigorous analysis of the data. It also never specified the crime - it's mentioned in the next paragraph that a large part of it might be because of immigrants breaching immigration laws.

Then it cites a paper which reads: "[...] immigration increases only the incidence of robberies, while leaving unaffected all other types of crime. Since robberies represent a very minor fraction of all criminal offenses, the effect on the overall crime rate is not significantly different from zero." (https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-00670036) I can't access the paper-proper so I can't check if it's correcting for socioeconomic statues or other demographic factors.

The rest of that section is a mess. I'm not going to attempt to untangle it. It's either uncited or the cite leads to an irrelevant link.

---

The data provided for the Netherlands in the first paragraph are foreign sources. I can't find numerical indications of the rate identified on Wiki. It's also newspaper articles that makes no attempt to undertake a rigorous analysis nor does it expand on what 'crime' entails or being a 'suspect of crime' entails.

The second article seems to lead some credence to the claims. It doesn't make an effort to correct for socioeconomic class though. It also just considers the youth.

---

The source for the Norway data seems rigorous. But unfortunately it is in Norwegian. From the graphing - eg: pp. 32 - there doesn't seem to be a significant divergence where 'innvandrere' refers to immigrants and 'uten innvandrerbakgrunn' refers too natives. I can't tell for sure though - Would you mind getting me an English language source.

The second report - also in Norwegian - doesn't seem to record the numerical values cited on the Wikipedia page.

---

The report being cited for Spain is a dud. It leads to a page - just not the PDF advertised.

The second article cited reports on a paper that precedes as such:

Aunque más del 15% de los ciudadanos que residen en España son extranjeros, poco más de la mitad de ese porcentaje lo representan inmigrantes latinoamericanos y africanos, identificados como motivo del incremento de la delincuencia por una gran parte de la sociedad española, que sufre de un aumento de racismo, institucionalizado por el gobierno en las sucesivas reformas y leyes de extranjería pactadas con la derecha española.

http://www.tercerainformacion.es/spip.php?article10906

Someone might want to check with Plane And Simple but the reading I have is that the disproportional levels inflicted by immigrants is broadly explained by ramped-up institutionalised racism.

I'm not sure about the specifics described thereafter. If someone could translate for me that would be great.

---

The Swedish report had an English summary. That's actually a really sensible idea more governments should incorporate into their reports.

It is two and a half times as likely for persons born abroad to be registered as crime suspects as it is for Swedish born persons with both parents born in Sweden. They thus have a ”relative risk” of 2.5. For those born in Sweden to two foreign-born parents, it is twice as common to be registered as it is among persons born in Sweden to two Swedish born parents. For this group, then, the ”relative risk” is 2. Among those with one Swedish born and one non-Swedish born parent, the risk is 1.4 times as great.

http://www.bra.se/download/18.cba82f7130f475a2f1800012697/2005_17_brottslighet_bland_personer_fodda_sverige_och_utlandet.pdf

This isn't correcting for socioeconomic statues mind you.

On socioeconomic statues:

Furthermore, it is six times as likely for persons from families
registered as having received social welfare benefit to be registered for
crime as it is for persons from families who have not been in receipt of such
benefits.

ibid

Here's correction for demographic profile.

Once the material has been standardised in this way, the level of relative risk among those born abroad is reduced from 2.5 to 2.1. The size of the relative risk among those born in Sweden to two foreign-born parents also diminishes substantially from 2.0 to 1.5.

ibid

The rate falls substantially but still not enough to reach parity. It's not clear whether or not this is specific to non-Europeans. The report states that non-Europeans make up 0.7% of convictions.

The next study analysis differentials between first and second generation immigrants.

Then last study cited on the Wikiedpia claims:

We find only a small correlation in the crime of individuals who share the same origin, indicating that culture is unlikely to be a strong cause of crime among immigrants.

http://raj.sagepub.com/content/3/3/167

It puts most of the difference down to socioeconomic origin. I haven't checked the empirics.

---

The UK data just outright rejects the connection.

---

What was your claim again Stronk Serb?

tl;dr: worst written page on Wikipedia.

[phuckphace]

Miserabilia

my point was thus:

"a few isolated incidences" of refujihadi-rape in Europistan are handwaved away as NBD fam, but when some nutter shoots a few people in a "few isolated incidences" of spree-killing with a gun, it's suddenly time to impose a blanket ban on guns. would you mind explaining the apparent inconsistency here?

re: your other points, I've already pointed out many a time that keeping your society homogeneous (i.e. white) is the most effective way to keep gun crime low, because white people generally don't kill each other very often with guns or without them.

re: "millions of rape cases by European nationals" - I'm sure this figure is hyperbolic unless you're counting every single case of rape stretching back into the days of heads on spikes in the Tower of London, which is kinda pointless I think? the point isn't that the refujihadis commit all or most of the rapes in the current year, it's that the cases that did occur were a) predicted to happen by the Braunhemde and b) were 100000% preventable by not allowing them in in the first place. the job of the state is to maintain security and order for its populace, not needlessly create less of it for whatever purpose.

[Vlerchan]

I should add that the abandoned Islands in Greece that provide the perfect bases for the compounds I've been suggesting.

[Porpoise101]

"a few isolated incidences" of refujihadi-rape in Europistan are handwaved away as NBD fam, but when some nutter shoots a few people in a "few isolated incidences" of spree-killing with a gun, it's suddenly time to impose a blanket ban on guns. would you mind explaining the apparent inconsistency here?
It's because with guns I suppose they want more stringent vetting, but with refugees, they do. Or at least they are supposed to. A lot of people like me aren't upset they are letting people into Europe, it's that when the first wave came in, there weren't properly prepared to check out their origins and papers.

[phuckphace]

It's because with guns I suppose they want more stringent vetting, but with refugees, they do. Or at least they are supposed to. A lot of people like me aren't upset they are letting people into Europe, it's that when the first wave came in, there weren't properly prepared to check out their origins and papers.

it's as though the waves of refugees just magically appeared one day in Europe's major cities like extraterrestrials landing in flying saucers, taking everyone completely by surprise. top kek m8

the simplest and least bullshitty interpretation is that EU elites were fully aware of the implications, and made no preparations or entry vetting because they didn't care and were cynically betting on the European populace's suicidal altruism to ensure that they wouldn't face any major pitchfork-and-noose backlash as they deserve (they meaning the elites).

[sqishy]

It's up to them to fight for their country...

They would if they wouldn't literally be about to die, lose their homes, be emotionally scarred from relations being blown apart or wasted away for lack of food, etc etc

...to make their country a better place...

They would try if they weren't shot, bombed, starved and traumatised to their homes, bodies and minds. You're making this look so easy...

...and it's not fleeing like cowards (And illegally violating borders,rioting,raping)

NOPE - Not this again.


Talking about consent of the population,why don't the elites ask about our opinion ? Don't we have anything to say about this mess ?

Very good point, yes. Perhaps the glorification of democracy by most governments can actually be met with acting it out thoroughly (though calling them elites really does ask the question "what democracy...?").

I personally haven't reached an end to the journey of seeing if democracy really is the best thing ever (i.e. all this glorification of democracy is not convincing me really), I'd like it if all the talk of it is actually officially and unofficially practiced.

[Vlerchan]

Does anyone else think that we should just have a general immigration discussion thread that'd be stickied?

I feel like I've already read the content of this thread a half-dozen times in the last six months.

[Jinglebottom]

Does anyone else think that we should just have a general immigration discussion thread that'd be stickied?

I feel like I've already read the content of this thread a half-dozen times in the last six months.
I agree... now all my anti-Syrian rants can be found in one thread. :P

[Exocet]

They would if they wouldn't literally be about to die, lose their homes, be emotionally scarred from relations being blown apart or wasted away for lack of food, etc etc



They would try if they weren't shot, bombed, starved and traumatised to their homes, bodies and minds. You're making this look so easy...



NOPE - Not this again.



Very good point, yes. Perhaps the glorification of democracy by most governments can actually be met with acting it out thoroughly (though calling them elites really does ask the question "what democracy...?").

I personally haven't reached an end to the journey of seeing if democracy really is the best thing ever (i.e. all this glorification of democracy is not convincing me really), I'd like it if all the talk of it is actually officially and unofficially practiced.

Wasn't targeting only Syrians,but also others coming illegally to Europe. (Won't even talk about those coming from stable countries (..compared to Syria) who take advantages from the situation.)
-
What's your point exactly on the situation ? What should be done in your opinion ?

[Vlerchan]

[...] (..compared to Syria) [...]
:)

I feel like I've gone through this before (You see!).

[sqishy]

Wasn't targeting only Syrians,but also others coming illegally to Europe. (Won't even talk about those coming from stable countries (..compared to Syria) who take advantages from the situation.)


These 'others' can also be discussed, with reference to what countries these are.


What's your point exactly on the situation ? What should be done in your opinion ?

I'm not going to pretend that only I have all the solutions; I don't, I know relatively little, if anything (like most of us here) on what it properly feels like to be in it, and all the factors going on with it. However, I see what (in my opinion) is wrong with regards to reaction, opinion and action itself on the whole refugee situation.

I suggest that we should be taking the vast majority of these people in, give them good (not barely life-supporting) care while they are here, and regardless of if there are too many or not, take actions to end the war and mess going on in Syria and the middle east region as a whole. 'Filter' out the opportunists with malevolent intentions, for they are within the population. Overall, though, this population fled their countries of origin because of war and the effects it is producing. Yeah, me saying that is a huge demand, because the crap the middle east is in sure is not going away easily.

It really is a mess, and we're suffering consequences of what I see to be partly started by the US/UK/France/Germany and all countries doing bombing/etc, not to mention Daesh being involved/interlinked. There is no one side to this, or just two either, but we're not saints or holders of freedom or anything, like the media is continually implying, and also making explicit in places.

[Plane And Simple]

"Aunque más del 15% de los ciudadanos que residen en España son extranjeros, poco más de la mitad de ese porcentaje lo representan inmigrantes latinoamericanos y africanos, identificados como motivo del incremento de la delincuencia por una gran parte de la sociedad española, que sufre de un aumento de racismo, institucionalizado por el gobierno en las sucesivas reformas y leyes de extranjería pactadas con la derecha española."

Goes along the lines of:

"Even though more than 15% of Spain's residents are foreigners, a little more than half of that percentage equals to latin american and african natives, identified as the source of the increase of burglary and delinquency by the Spanish society, which is suffering an increase in racism, isntitutionalized by the succesive reforms and foreigner laws of the right-wing Spanish parties".

Let me know if you want a bit of an insider's opinion

[Vlerchan]

Let me know if you want a bit of an insider's opinion
Yes please.

[phuckphace]

Let me know if you want a bit of an insider's opinion

komm bald wieder, Herr Franco

[Plane And Simple]

komm bald wieder, Herr Franco

Yes please.

Well sorry for being late but I just don't have the time to elaboratea proper ROTW-worthy post, but here's what I can tell you within Spain.

There's shoplifting, which is basically done by spanish as much as anyone else

Burglary, same stuff I'd say, a little bit leaning towards Romanians, and south eastern europeans

Pickpocketing, mainly if not over 90% of the cases are Romanians or gipsies from wherever pretty much

Car thefts, Romanians, Moroccans.

All this leads us to associate Moderately dark skinned people, as well as fully dark people with delinquency. All this will imply crossing to the other side of the sidewalk when alone on the street and you see one of them, and just overall "fear" (Note the ""), and disgust towards them. Government wise, if you shoplift you only get a couple tenths of hours community service, if you steal a 50k€ BMW, you're not going to step in jail apart from custody pretty much, so for them it's actually profitable to lead this life, as long as they don't make a huge cartel which then gets them caught and sent back anyway