Is America a good union

[TheGuest]

yeah i have a 15 page essay due monday and i only have three pages done. its about america as a whole. so basically i have to prove that america is a good union.
so yeah i have 3 pages done so far. i've mapped out what i will talk about in each page.
i need some broad ideas about america and it's past. it needs to be broad enough to talk about it for a whole page. so like for instance, separation of power, federalism and so on so forth.
anyway. i have to include like stuff from america's past and they don't necessarily have to be good things but have to prove that it made a positive effect.
so anyway, my life is kinda hectic and i really need to get this thing done, its already overdue, i was supposed to have it done a long time ago and look at me, i only have 3 pages done
so if any of you kind souls would like to throw me some ideas it would be greatly appreciated


-merged threads. -Emerald Dream.

[Judean Zealot]

I would suggest that you discuss whether or not the union has succeeded in the respect of union, insofar as that involves, on the one hand national unity, and on the other state sovereignty.

I would also view the above topic through the lens of the Civil War, the Federalist protectionism that preceded it, and the relation to the original Articles of Confederation.

You can PM me for more.

[Rydar8]

dang I would love this essay, but ok here are just some ideas.
first in the 1780s talk about the constitutional convention, how people from all the colonies came to one place to agree on a constitution, their own and new way of life. they didn't always agree on everything (like slavery) but they created compromises (like the 3/5 compromise) that put a positive effect on America and made both sides happy. you can go into a lot more details about the constitutional convention. creating the GOOD UNION we have today.

war of 1812 against Great Britian. many Americans were against that (look up the congress vote to go to war its pretty interesting and can be helpful) but we went to war bc war hawks from the west voted for it. the split union came together to even call it a tie with the best military in the world. the GOOD UNION of America did that.
Manifest destiny. the belief that America should spread coast to coast in the pre-civil war years

then well the next big point is the civil war. war broke out because of the southern need for states rights, after many states in the south didn't even put pres, Lincoln on their ballot and he still won the election of 1860, the south realized that they no longer have any power in the union and left. (you can talk in more detail about the election of 1860 it should help at least make it longer) (although they had a whole lot of southern supreme court justices thanks to president Taylor) (and the dred scott ecision totally benifited the south lol just sayin') anyway they realized they couldn't have control and left, causing war in America. blah blah blah eventually the war ended and south rejoined their union making America a GOOD UNION (like your prompt says) even with the assassination of president Lincoln by southerner john Wilkes booth, who was shot 12 days after the assassination with his last words being, "god told me shoot that bullet" (yeah no he didn't john, no he didn't).

you can also talk about Vietnam, about 70%? of Americans were against the war in Vietnam against communism, but the war at home that led to even the Kent State massacre created the 26 amendment to the constitution that gave 18 year olds the right to vote, because if they can die in war they should get to vote too. The GOOD UNION of America listened to its citizens creating a major change.

can you talk present day too, I mean we as Americans cant really agree but as a GOOD UNION we all believe that isis needs to be stopped.

that's all I can think of at the moment, if I have more ideas or you need them just ask

[Sir Suomi]

I'm saying no just because I want to see a Balkanized America.

[Judean Zealot]

I'm saying no just because I want to see a Balkanized America.

That desperate for a war, eh?

[Tris]

I'd say it is a positive thing that we have invented a kind of political system where it is gradually becoming more inclusive and designed for the benefit of all. Every system WILL have its drawbacks though, but that is totally okay. We have to meet every challenge with the light of wisdom and ensure that there is no room for human greed, valuing selfless service

[phuckphace]

I'd say it is a positive thing that we have invented a kind of political system where it is gradually becoming more inclusive and designed for the benefit of all. Every system WILL have its drawbacks though, but that is totally okay. We have to meet every challenge with the light of wisdom and ensure that there is no room for human greed, valuing selfless service

lmao you can't be serious. universal suffrage has been a huge disaster for all of the same reasons the anti-sufferagists predicted (political gridlock along racial/class lines). but sure, if we sing "We Shall Overcome" enough times it'll get fixed

[prepkid813]

Yes!

[Tris]

lmao you can't be serious. universal suffrage has been a huge disaster for all of the same reasons the anti-sufferagists predicted (political gridlock along racial/class lines). but sure, if we sing "We Shall Overcome" enough times it'll get fixed

It's not about "singing" it, it is about acting with logic and reason. It is about creating a just life where we can meet each challenge as it comes, and to be accepting of people's viewpoints. The world is full of greed and humanity is mostly stupid. We all grow through experience and there are always those false teachers or prophets that attract all the people who are led astray.

Personally I don't think there should be any "leaders" that try to force others to conform to their way of doing things. The true leader is one who can show the way by using kindness and having the inner strength to meet each challenge as it comes with his/her faith (in others and his/her self) and his/her intellect

It is rather unfortunate how we have the false prophets and leaders that have been around through all ages. You can see it everywhere, whether that is the Christian church condemning others who don't share this "belief of God and love for Jesus" as they do, or a nation that tries to implement its political beliefs on others because they only value THEIR own way of doing things and feel threatened by anyone that does not work the same way.

Please use the multi-quote or edit button instead of posting multiple times consecutively. Posts merged ~ Mike/ImCoolBeans

"It seems clear that things which are most clear may yet be most closely hidden for long ages, and hidden not only from the gross and sensual man, but for the fine and cultured man. And that being evident, does not the consequence follow that we who have certainly not attained to perfection of any kind, may be, nay, almost certainly are, as blind as those who have gone before us; that we too, gaze at great wonders, both of the body and the spirit, without discerning the marvels that are all around us? And again, it would appear that we may be groping after the perception of things which we apprehend in a dim and broken and imperfect manner.

All manner of things may be under the eyes of men through long ages, and yet be unperceived, undiscerned by them. This is true, and yet these things are none the less there."

[Tris]

Somebody educated and this knowledgeable would not see the need to try to "save others" with what they know. People who have not seen the light of wisdom and never went through that process of unlayering the self will never understand the knowledge of such individuals. Typically, when you try to tell people and "save" them with your own experiences and knowledge, people will use it for their own greedy purposes and become further trapped in their delusions.

[Vlerchan]

universal suffrage has been a huge disaster for all of the same reasons the anti-sufferagists predicted (political gridlock along racial/class lines).
If political gridlock occurs then the default position gets upheld. I would have thought conservatives would be keen on that.

I'd appreciate examples though.

The true leader is one who can show the way by using kindness and having the inner strength to meet each challenge as it comes with his/her faith (in others and his/her self) and his/her intellect[.]
If humanity is 'mostly stupid' then why do you believe volunteerist strategies are viable?

[...] or a nation that tries to implement its political beliefs on others because they only value THEIR own way of doing things and feel threatened by anyone that does not work the same way.
You like liberal-democratic governance, I like concentration camps.

What's the problem?

[Judean Zealot]

Vlerchan's devil's advocate game is strong, I see. :D

[Sir Suomi]

That desperate for a war, eh?

Meh, it's more of an interesting concept, really. Various regions separating from the Union to become their own independent nations, albeit they still would obviously continue to have good relationships with one another due to them still needing one another to support the other. I;e, the Midwest needs at least one of the coastal regions to send and receive international trade, the other regions need the Midwest for crops, oil, etc. I've found a map that shows a possible look at a Balkanzied America.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n636/MountainPrepper/Camouflage/History/Political/Balkin-america.jpg

[phuckphace]

It's not about "singing" it, it is about acting with logic and reason. It is about creating a just life where we can meet each challenge as it comes, and to be accepting of people's viewpoints. The world is full of greed and humanity is mostly stupid. We all grow through experience and there are always those false teachers or prophets that attract all the people who are led astray.

Personally I don't think there should be any "leaders" that try to force others to conform to their way of doing things. The true leader is one who can show the way by using kindness and having the inner strength to meet each challenge as it comes with his/her faith (in others and his/her self) and his/her intellect

It is rather unfortunate how we have the false prophets and leaders that have been around through all ages. You can see it everywhere, whether that is the Christian church condemning others who don't share this "belief of God and love for Jesus" as they do, or a nation that tries to implement its political beliefs on others because they only value THEIR own way of doing things and feel threatened by anyone that does not work the same way.

my point was that your view seems rather Pollyannish, to say the least, given that humans are not "logical" or "rational" creatures and this is clearly reflected in our behavior all throughout our voluminous history.

Christianity at its height built unprecedented high civilization. the next time you're strolling down the street not having to worry about dying of measles, thank a racist WASP shitlord.

If political gridlock occurs then the default position gets upheld. I would have thought conservatives would be keen on that.

we're keen as long as we're the supermajority, as anyone would be.

the difference being that when the supermajority is composed of bigot WASPs, the society in question enjoys a remarkably high level of stability, competence and continuation. see everywhere this has ever been the case, most notably for the first ~160 years of the US' existence.

OTOH, when the supermajority is a cartoonish collection of shrieking minorities who vote as ethnic blocs against the privileged classes and whose politics are almost entirely centered on their grievances, the system quickly begins to break down. the state becomes less efficient at its job when it is packed out with low-quality affirmative action hires and neutered by politically correct policy that places feelings over a practical focus on maintaining stability.

the old WASP guard didn't much care for the feelings of those who opposed them, but on the flipside they were able to maintain a level of Ordnung that our liberal democracies can only dream of.

I'd appreciate examples though.

the USA, the European Superstate, etc.

You like liberal-democratic governance, I like concentration camps.

What's the problem?

hey, me too!

[phuckphace]

image (http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n636/MountainPrepper/Camouflage/History/Political/Balkin-america.jpg)

change "Coastal Western Republic" to "Quarantine Zone Alpha"

[Vlerchan]

we're keen as long as we're the supermajority, as anyone would be.
It's also worth considering that ethno-politics gets filtered through the lens of white elites and business interests. It's the alleged case that "the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy" (Page and Gilens 2014: 575) (https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf). Even the changes in the U.S.'s social orientation - the hallmark of progressive advances: abortion and same-sex marriage - never managed to make it through the legislature.

In effect it's the upholding of the statues-quo whilst us proles believe we don't need to revolt.

You don't have anything to complain about.

the society in question enjoys a remarkably high level of stability, competence and continuation. see everywhere this has ever been the case, most notably for the first ~160 years of the US' existence.
I don't consider a brutal civil war and various labour revolts to be the pinnacle of stability.

Things being generally unstable is compounded in Europe. Considering Europe it would seem there has been a long-term decline in homicide rates (Eisner 2003) (https://soci.ucalgary.ca/brannigan/sites/soci.ucalgary.ca.brannigan/files/long-term-historical-trends-of-violent-crime.pdf). Considering further that homicide rates tend to hold a strong correlation with other rates of crime it's considered that this indicates a more comprehensive decline. Claude Fischer (http://thepublicintellectual.org/2011/05/02/a-crime-puzzle/) produces a comparable graph for the U.S. though I'm not sure where he gets it from.

You can see an off-trend upsurge after the 50s. I would imagine that was because there was an increase in the number of people aged 18 - 24 in general - note also that larger groups tend to produce a larger per capita crime rate - and ghettotisation produced a large increase in the murder rate associated with blacks. It's been noted that higher immigrant densities tend to result in lower per capita crime rates (Stowell et al. 2009) (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1745-9125.2009.00162.x/abstract).

Here's (http://contexts.org/articles/sampson/) a non technical-piece on immigration and crime that we should all read. It notes that second and third generation immigrants hold to higher rates of crime. This might seem to fit in-line with the theorisation I made later-generation immigrants feeling greater ire at their situation.

---

I'm intending to pre-empt the 'but there's a war on our streets!' criticism here.

the USA, the European Superstate, etc.
Would you mind noting some policy areas.

[Porpoise101]

Meh, it's more of an interesting concept, really. Various regions separating from the Union to become their own independent nations, albeit they still would obviously continue to have good relationships with one another due to them still needing one another to support the other. I;e, the Midwest needs at least one of the coastal regions to send and receive international trade, the other regions need the Midwest for crops, oil, etc. I've found a map that shows a possible look at a Balkanzied America.

image (http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n636/MountainPrepper/Camouflage/History/Political/Balkin-america.jpg)
No we Midwesterners don't need anyone. We can ship goods straight outta DEEEtroit and up the St.Lawrence.