Israel, should it exist?

[tovaris]

Ower the years we have all heard of the murderous, genocidal nature of this country, of its numerous war crimes etc.
Do you think this country should be alowed to exist? Should we at leest punish them for their crimes?
Judean Zealot

[Salad_Baby]

Well the Jewish population kind of needed somewhere to move after WW2. I'm not sure dumping them all onto Palestine's territory was the best way to go about it though..

[SethfromMI]

Ower the years we have all heard of the murderous, genocidal nature of this country, of its numerous war crimes etc.
Do you think this country should be alowed to exist? Should we at leest punish them for their crimes?
Judean Zealot

ok by your same logic should Germany exist? Should Russia? North Korea? Vietnam? Even America in its treatment of the Native Americans can be added to this list? If you say these countries should be allowed to exist, then you should not have to ask if Israel should be allowed to exist

[Jinglebottom]

I don't dislike individual Israelis (and I'm Lebanese) so I don't think it's right to punish the whole people. But I am not a fan of their government, nor mine for that matter.

[phuckphace]

Israel: We must secure the existence of our people and a future for Jewish children. 14/88 heil Stern（╬ಠ益ಠ)/

Palestine: notice me senpai! (*´▽｀*）am I kawaii desu ne~

Israel: lololol get rekt u little baka. hey Palestine-kun, onii-chan America just sent me a trillion shekels, u jellymad (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)

Palestine: (ு⁎ு)྆྆ don't be so tsundere senpai~

Israel: more like Pal-less-tine amirite ٩(๑❛ワ❛๑)و

[tovaris]

ok by your same logic should Germany exist? Should Russia? North Korea? Vietnam? Even America in its treatment of the Native Americans can be added to this list? If you say these countries should be allowed to exist, then you should not have to ask if Israel should be allowed to exist

Germany should NOT exist, neither should USA. Russia did notning wrong, in Vietnam the kommunists won and NOT the genocidal corupt regime.

[SethfromMI]

Germany should NOT exist, neither should USA. Russia did notning wrong, in Vietnam the kommunists won and NOT the genocidal corupt regime.

Stalin slaughtered millions and millions and I mean millions and millions of innocent people. did nothing wrong my ass

[tovaris]

Stalin slaughtered millions and millions and I mean millions and millions of innocent people. did nothing wrong my ass

Russia wan but 1 republic of many in the USSR. The USSR nolonger exists does it? I would do the same with Germany, break it into little peces so it could newer again rule Europe

[SethfromMI]

Russia wan but 1 republic of many in the USSR. The USSR nolonger exists does it? I would do the same with Germany, break it into little peces so it could newer again rule Europe

and where did the USSR start from? Russia? if Russia should not be blamed for past sins, then neither should USA, Germany, , etc. you're a hypocrite sir

[tovaris]

and where did the USSR start from? Russia? if Russia should not be blamed for past sins, then neither should USA, Germany, , etc. you're a hypocrite sir

USSR war made with uniting republics, Ukrain and the baltics were independant, so was Belarous...
Open a history book comerad.
Germany unlike USSR was not disopated into many countries (the fact it was reunited is a crime against humanty). Germans made Hitler

[Vlerchan]

Tovaris's argument is that the Isreal restricts the right of national self-determination to its minorities. The USSR offered this to its minorities insofar as those minorities remained socialist which makes perfect sense from the lens of socialists.

I don't think he's been hypocritical.

Even America in its treatment of the Native Americans can be added to this list?
This made me smile.

[..] the fact it was reunited is a crime against humanty [..]
This is nuts though. Hitlerism isn't genetic.

[SethfromMI]

USSR war made with uniting republics, Ukrain and the baltics were independant, so was Belarous...
Open a history book comerad.
Germany unlike USSR was not disopated into many countries (the fact it was reunited is a crime against humanty). Germans made Hitler

a brick wall would give me better feedback than you

Tovaris's argument is that the Isreal restricts the right of national self-determination to its minorities. The USSR offered this to its minorities insofar as those minorities remained socialist which makes perfect sense from the lens of socialists.

I don't think he's been hypocritical.


This made me smile.


This is nuts though. Hitlerism isn't genetic.

lol well I am being honest about my nations past. we are certainly not perfect

[tovaris]

This is nuts though. Hitlerism isn't genetic.

Germany has EU in its economic fists, if there were stil NDR and DDR this wouldnt be the case.
Germans are geneticly a waring nation (ok social construct too) prussia, 100y war, WW1, WW2... Im not saying kill them im saying make DDR make NDR, and make Bavaria, independant countries.



a brick wall would give me better feedback than you

/.../



I gave you plenty feedback.

Tovaris's argument is that the Isreal restricts the right of national self-determination to its minorities. The USSR offered this to its minorities insofar as those minorities remained socialist which makes perfect sense from the lens of socialists.

/.../.
Yes, but also the USSR has been punished by history in that it nolonger exists (ok Transdnistra claims to be a part of it but lets not dwel on that) . Lets punish other countries.

[Vlerchan]

Germany has EU in its economic fists, if there were stil NDR and DDR this wouldnt be the case.
Please explain to mechanism in place here. Thank you.

geneticly a waring nation (ok social construct too)
It's not a social construct. That there is a genetic determinant to German behaviour can be demonstrated.

I'd appreciate if it was demonstrated.

---

German exposure to war also pales in comparison to the likes of France or Britain. The HRE also played no significant part in the 100 Yr war that I'm aware of.

Yes, but also the USSR has been punished by history in that it nolonger exists (ok Transdnistra claims to be a part of it but lets not dwel on that)
Sure. The USSR did that to itself though.

[tovaris]

@Vlerchan should we be talking about this here? it has nothing to do with israel... (i sugest you make a new thread or something)


Please explain to mechanism in place here. Thank you.
/.../

Why man, again with the explaning every singe word... cmon...
Ok
So there would be (in my ming) no more of great united germany, but insted we would have the DDR, the NDR and Bavaria (not included in the NDR). This would destroy the power of 1 too strong industrial nation.


/.../
It's not a social construct. That there is a genetic determinant to German behaviour can be demonstrated.

I'd appreciate if it was demonstrated.
/.../


Germans today are wery nationalistic and neofashistic-turn on the news.

Social construct - because we cannot atribute everething to genetics.

They are a blod thursty nation.


/.../
German exposure to war also pales in comparison to the likes of France or Britain. The HRE also played no significant part in the 100 Yr war that I'm aware of.
/.../


100y war we should look at prussia and their satelites, the HRE was hardly eve anything to be conisidered.
They naval medeling segnificantly prolonged 100YW and kept pooring fule on the fire.


/../
Sure. The USSR did that to itself though.

Partly. Alowing nations the possabylety of independence isnt the same as desolving a country (side note: Russia left USSR as the last republic in late '91, USSR continued to exist until early '92). Bt it was the USA who caused the desolusion of USSR (also the destruction of Yugoslavia...).

@Vlerchan
Feel free to respond to this in another thread, dont wana be too of topic.



Well the Jewish population kind of needed somewhere to move after WW2. /.../


Why "needed somewhere to move after WW2"? I mean what about the Gipsies? Where is ther country on foreighn soil? Mor Gipsies died than jews.


/.../ I'm not sure dumping them all onto Palestine's territory was the best way to go about it though..


Exactly, you cant steal peoples land, thats what hitler was doing.


I don't dislike individual Israelis (and I'm Lebanese) so I don't think it's right to punish the whole people. But I am not a fan of their government, nor mine for that matter.

Would you dislike an Israely if the shot you?

Also how about the shee existence of the country of Israel, curently in breech of many international laws...

[Judean Zealot]

tovaris

A sense of etiquette usually holds me back from saying things like this, but both you and your points are idiotic.
Do you think this country should be alowed to exist?
Look here. Literally every country in the world is built on atrocities, both in respect to cultural and geopolitical affairs. I mean, given the millenia of horrific atrocities that have been going on (and continue to go on, see North Ireland, Ukraine, and your own lovely Balkans), I find it frankly bizzare that the likes of yourself spend so much time getting blue in the face over seventy years of relatively low grade conflict. Look at your own Serbia. From the time of the forced introduction of Christianity, how many wars, massacres, and systemic persecution have occurred to create Serbia's unique national character? Between the Romans, Byzantines, Turks, Greeks, and modern Serbians, how often have atrocities both occurred and continue to occur? I mean, you people aren't 20 years out of a ten year long civil war which killed 150,000 people and displaced 4,000,000 more, and yet you can't think of anything better to go on about than a 70 year conflict with less casualties and refugees? And it's not only Serbia that was formed through death and destruction, so was America, Ireland, UK and it's dominions, France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Post Colonial Africa... need I go on? This is how nations are formed.

What would you even replace Israel with? A state based on the Ottomans? The Muslim Caliphate? The Romans? The Canaanites? Every one of those nations are based on far more than 120,000 deaths over 70 years. And even if you'd go back to the Cro-Magnons they were killing each other (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal_extinction). Every clan was 'genociding' the clan on the next hill.
in Vietnam the kommunists won and NOT the genocidal corupt regime.
Of course, you wouldn't care to learn about Viet Cong atrocities (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Hu%E1%BA%BF), would you?
make Bavaria, independant countries.

Right. Because we all know how swell the Bavarians were when they were their own Electorate. You may want to crack the books and read about the 30 years war.

Why "needed somewhere to move after WW2"? I mean what about the Gipsies? Where is ther country on foreighn soil? Mor Gipsies died than jews.
What the fuck are you talking about?

Tovaris's argument is that the Isreal restricts the right of national self-determination to its minorities. The USSR offered this to its minorities insofar as those minorities remained socialist which makes perfect sense from the lens of socialists.

You may want to read up on the Yevseksiya (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yevsektsiya). The USSR crushed every identity other than Communist internationalism.

In summary, of course Israel has committed atrocities. Everyone has. I'm not denying that. I think Deir Yassin was an atrocity, and had it not happened my grandparents would've been killed and we wouldn't be having this discussion now. Besides, Israel is some pretty benign suppression when you compare it to Sudan, or hell, Syria. But no one gives a shit about Sudan and Darfur, why not?

[Jinglebottom]

Look, Lebanon and Israel ARE enemy states, but that doesn't mean I'm going to hate every single Israeli and ask for his punishment. That's ridiculous. We've been fucked over by Israel in the past, and we fucked them over as well. I am perfectly okay with associating with anyone of any nationality as long as they're civil.

[tovaris]

@tovaris (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/member.php?u=68480)

A sense of etiquette usually holds me back from saying things like this, but both you and your points are idiotic.
/.../


Everione knows isralians have no morals, you arent fooling anyone my friend.


/.../

Look here. Literally every country in the world is built on atrocities, both in respect to cultural and geopolitical affairs.
/.../


One ward: Slovenia.
Genocide free since the roman times.



/.../
I mean, given the millenia of horrific atrocities that have been going on (and continue to go on, see North Ireland, Ukraine, and your own lovely Balkans), I find it frankly bizzare that the likes of yourself spend so much time getting blue in the face over seventy years of relatively low grade conflict.
/.../


You are referesing history. Other countries are not commiting genocide AS WE SPEAK!



/.../
Look at your own Serbia. From the time of the forced introduction of Christianity, how many wars, massacres, and systemic persecution have occurred to create Serbia's unique national character? Between the Romans, Byzantines, Turks, Greeks, and modern Serbians, how often have atrocities both occurred and continue to occur? I mean, you people aren't 20 years out of a ten year long civil war which killed 150,000 people and displaced 4,000,000 more, and yet you can't think of anything better to go on about than a 70 year conflict with less casualties and refugees? And it's not only Serbia that was formed through death and destruction, so was America, Ireland, UK and it's dominions, France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Post Colonial Africa... need I go on? This is how nations are formed.
/.../


1 I am not Serbiam.
2 again with the pre 15th cent. history. Remind me again when was the last invasion of Gaza?
3 We live in the 21st century. Nations have wowed not to alow the formation of countries by war. Nations have wowed not to alowe border changes frew war!
4 I take it you have a bathroom at you house? How about some Ziklon-B in that shower? Would that be plesent?


/.../
Of course, you wouldn't care to learn about Viet Cong atrocities (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Hu%E1%BA%BF), would you?
/.../

Communists, fighting against this:
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRV19SJEV3rwxtDtANzVdps2dyon1kYgtM5xCc7PyCS9yLZKYlq

http://publicradio1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/newscut/files/2014/10/AP72060801062.jpg

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/.../
What would you even replace Israel with? A state based on the Ottomans? The Muslim Caliphate? The Romans? The Canaanites? Every one of those nations are based on far more than 120,000 deaths over 70 years. And even if you'd go back to the Cro-Magnons they were killing each other (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal_extinction). Every clan was 'genociding' the clan on the next hill.
/.../


I would newer have formed it.


/.../
Right. Because we all know how swell the Bavarians were when they were their own Electorate. You may want to crack the books and read about the 30 years war.
/.../


30 YW was a civil war, not a war against a nother country.
Besides, if bavarians are not a part of germany germany is weeker, thus les dangerous.


/.../
What the fuck are you talking about?
/.../


Why give them a country?


/.../
In summary, of course Israel has committed atrocities. Everyone has. I'm not denying that.
/.../


Israel IS committING atrocities.


/.../
Besides, Israel is some pretty benign suppression when you compare it to Sudan, or hell, Syria. But no one gives a shit about Sudan and Darfur, why not?

Benign?! seriously? deleting an intire nation is benign?

[Vlerchan]

You may want to read up on the Yevseksiya. The USSR crushed every identity other than Communist internationalism.
It was quite militant to religious identities in general as per gosateizm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism). The same occurred to the Orthodox and Islamic population - and interesting-enough it's influence has had a notable impact on the smaller numbers of Islamists in former republics. More important on theoretical grounds might have been that nations without territories also didn't exist within the dominant approach to the national question*.

So with that in mind I'll re-iterate the previous claim though with the expressed caveat that it was pursued under state-atheist framework. However the Jews did eventually get a chance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast#Jewish_settlement_and_development_in_the_region) to pursue their own de-religiousized proletarian culture, but I doubt you would have been a fan.

---

*
[...] A nation is formed only as a result of lengthy and systematic intercourse, as a result of people living together generation after generation.

But people cannot live together, for lengthy periods unless they have a common territory. Englishmen and Americans originally inhabited the same territory, England, and constituted one nation. Later, one section of the English emigrated from England to a new territory, America, and there, in the new territory, in the course of time, came to form the new American nation. Difference of territory led to the formation of different nations.

Thus, a common territory is one of the characteristic features of a nation.

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1913/03a.htm#s1

---

I'll also leave Tovaris to someone that feels like putting in the effort.

[Bull]

YES! Absolutely. As a people they never ceased to exist, in spite of centuries of persecution at the hands of many. They have been rightly returned to their homeland, or at least part of it. Praise be to God!

[Jinglebottom]

Would you dislike an Israely if the shot you?

What do you mean?

[Judean Zealot]

tovaris
I'm starting to despair. You've unmasked me as the vicious Satan I am.

1) Are you serious? Tito didn't commit any atrocities? That's some mighty revisionism you're doing over there. In any event, I doubt that the Slovene peasant revolutions were such noble affairs. But we digress. Slovenia may have not had a genocide, but the state apparatus has been built on a systemic persecution of dissidents.

2) The Jewish revolt against the British began prior to WWII, with the passage of the MacDonald White Paper. The war now is merely a continuation of the original revolt to establish a Jewish country. Maybe we should give up our demands for sovereignty and continue living in the diaspora? I think not. We got shit on too many times, and in the "civilised" countries as well. Germany and Spain... need I say more? It's kind of nice that a bunch of fat old men gathered in New York and decided 'no more war', but we live in the real world, and in the real world there is still persecution and war.

3) That picture is of the execution of one of your "Kommunists" who murdered an entire family.

4) You are making a false equivocation between the Holocaust and the current conflict. The Holocaust was conducted against civilians who were in no way enemies of the German people? Were there Jews running around Germany saying "We will make this country Jewish and call it Israel. When we do that we will throw the Germans into the sea"?

In addition, I assure you, if we were trying to actually kill out the Palestinians we could do so in a day. We're not. We're trying to preserve our own nation state, which I repeat, is necessary for no reason other than the fact that the rest of the world has stepped on us one time to many.

4) The 30 year war was not a civil war. It was a war between the Catholic and Protestant city states.

There is more to write, but I'm tired of this. You make me miss TonyMontana.
Vlerchan

I'm done with this thread. I have no objection discussing the matter with you, Phuckphace, Stronk Serb, and the others here, but unfortunately we don't have the means to keep the idiots out.

[Judean Zealot]

Yes. Praise God. Now I leave you with Judges 11 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges%2011) (verses 14-27 in particular).

[tovaris]

/.../
1) Are you serious?
/.../

Yes.


/.../
1)/.../Tito didn't commit any atrocities?
/.../

He was a fredom fighter.


/.../
1) /.../ That's some mighty revisionism you're doing over there.
/.../

We kiled foreighn invadors, we did not commit genocide (khm #Croatia)


/.../
1) /.../In any event, I doubt that the Slovene peasant revolutions were such noble affairs. But we digress. Slovenia may have not had a genocide, but the state apparatus has been built on a systemic persecution of dissidents.
/.../

Yes peasant revolutions... hm peasants killed by fewdal lords (germans). I fail to see your point.

The Republic of Slovenia was legaly founded acording to national and international law.

The Republic of Slovenia newer had systemic persecusion of disidents, we have no disidents.


/.../
2) The Jewish revolt against the British began prior to WWII, with the passage of the MacDonald White Paper. The war now is merely a continuation of the original revolt to establish a Jewish country. Maybe we should give up our demands for sovereignty and continue living in the diaspora? I think not. We got shit on too many times, and in the "civilised" countries as well. Germany and Spain... need I say more? It's kind of nice that a bunch of fat old men gathered in New York and decided 'no more war', but we live in the real world, and in the real world there is still persecution and war.
/.../


You chose diaspora. Your god decided to punish you and took the land of Kanaan away from your corupt claws. You are destined to roam the world godles and countryles.
Jews do not deserwe to et a pece of land just because they want it.
Why didnt we give the Roma their country? lets declare a chunk of India to be a new Roma country and ship them of to there. After all hitler killer more Roma than he did jews.
In the civilized world we no longer have war. But as we all know the israely are evil genocidalmaniacs.
The british promised palestine to Arabs for revolting against Otonams. Palestine belongs to Arabs NOT jews.


/.../
3) That picture is of the execution of one of your "Kommunists" who murdered an entire family.

/.../


The execution is being performed by american backed regime.


/.../
4) You are making a false equivocation between the Holocaust and the current conflict. The Holocaust was conducted against civilians who were in no way enemies of the German people? Were there Jews running around Germany saying "We will make this country Jewish and call it Israel. When we do that we will throw the Germans into the sea"?
/.../


And israel isnt killing civilians in Palestine? and expanding ilegaly into palestinian land?


/.../
In addition, I assure you, if we were trying to actually kill out the Palestinians we could do so in a day. We're not. We're trying to preserve our own nation state, which I repeat, is necessary for no reason other than the fact that the rest of the world has stepped on us one time to many.
/.../

It is an ilegal state. It is not a nation state, it is a criminal colony. Noone is thretning the existance of israel, but israel is ewery day commiting Genoside upon the palestinian people. (long live Hamas)


/.../
4) The 30 year war was not a civil war. It was a war between the Catholic and Protestant city states.
/.../


It was a war INSIDE one country: the HRE


/.../
There is more to write, but I'm tired of this. You make me miss TonyMontana.
/.../


who?

Yes. Praise God. Now I leave you with Judges 11 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges%2011) (verses 14-27 in particular).

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Hydrogen-cyanide-3D-vdW.png/100px-Hydrogen-cyanide-3D-vdW.png
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Hydrogen-cyanide-2D.svg/512px-Hydrogen-cyanide-2D.svg.png

[Judean Zealot]

"No one is threatening the existence of Israel" and "long live Hamas" in the same paragraph is reaching new levels. I trust anyone who reads this thread will be able to see your idiocy without my help- debating you is like running into a slab of concrete.

[Brieftime]

SethfromMi I think tovaris must just be really bored lol

[tovaris]

"No one is threatening the existence of Israel" and "long live Hamas" in the same paragraph is reaching new levels. I trust anyone who reads this thread will be able to see your idiocy without my help- debating you is like running into a slab of concrete.

Hamas are fredom fighters, fighting foreighn ocupation. They are heros.

[Jinglebottom]

Hamas are just another Islamist terrorist group, nothing different from ISIS, Hezbollah and Al-Qaeda.

[tovaris]

Hamas are just another Islamist terrorist group, nothing different from ISIS, Hezbollah and Al-Qaeda.
Hamas makes sure people in Gaza can survive. As long as the fight israel they are alies in my book.

[wolf g]

Hamas are fredom fighters, fighting foreighn ocupation. They are heros.

ok
in the Quoran the god said that israel is exist
and hamas are fight for their freedom both of you are right

[Judean Zealot]

Hamas makes sure people in Gaza can survive. As long as the fight israel they are alies in my book.

*ISIS fights Israel.
Assad fights Israel.
Ergo, you are allied with two bitter enemies.

Possible, but rather awkward, no?

[tovaris]

*ISIS fights Israel.
Assad fights Israel.
Ergo, you are allied with two bitter enemies.

Possible, but rather awkward, no?
ISIS interestingly newer atacked israel... ISIS is interestingly using wepons of israely production
Asad is a hero

[Jinglebottom]

Yeah, ISIS is busy bombing and attacking the northeast of Lebanon.

[Judean Zealot]

ISIS interestingly newer atacked israel... ISIS is interestingly using wepons of israely production
Asad is a hero

Really? (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.664310?v=3674CF930FF9E27940BEC8ACE39D9B85)
Of course, you never hear about rockets unless Israel retaliates.

[phuckphace]

>the Vietcong

Henry Kissinger should've told Nixon to use nukes

[Vlerchan]

>the Vietcong

Henry Kissinger should've told Nixon to use nukes
I would have thought that you of all people would have supported left-wing authoritarian nationalists.

[Judean Zealot]

I would have thought that you of all people would have supported left-wing authoritarian nationalists.

Everyone supports anything in the world until they whiff an atrocity. Then they run.

[phuckphace]

I would have thought that you of all people would have supported left-wing authoritarian nationalists.

the Vietnam war was for the Vietnamese people a fratricidal war stirred up by foreign powers/ideas and the outcome could only be described as heinous. both sides seem indefensible to me.

[sqishy]

I don't know lots about the Israel/Palestine situation other than what I get from news and that, and I try to filter it, but there's a lot going on. From my point of view, I think Israel should be charged with war crimes. Israel's origins were a bad idea, as it attempted to displace one nation with theirs and expect the original nation to be okay with that. Though I feel so many countries have had their origins be of a destructive nature, it does not mean that one just gets rid of the country. If I could reverse time, I would see Israel to not be around, by altering its origins. I cannot though, nobody can. To attempt to erase one country because it attempted to erase another, does nothing useful. I won't say more, because I don't know everything going on. I am trying my best to go with solid views, though.
But oh - Netanyahu, from what I know, is along Donald Trump with how much I like him. If anything, he should not exist.

[mattsmith48]

Ower the years we have all heard of the murderous, genocidal nature of this country, of its numerous war crimes etc.
Do you think this country should be alowed to exist? Should we at leest punish them for their crimes?
Judean Zealot

I think there is other countries worse then Israel rightnow, Like Russia, North Korea, Syria, Saudi Arabia and US.

[phuckphace]

you know out of all modern states, Israel appears to be the only one with the political will and capability of implementing the coveted "ein Volk, ein Reich" arrangement. if they end up with a Biblical-style absolute monarch + theocracy, even better.

in fact, I hope this happens and that it turns out to be the kick in the pants needed for the West to follow suit. see you at the rallies boys!

[Judean Zealot]

phuckphace

Biblically, the monarchy is not absolute. It is balanced by the Sanhedrin, which functions as a meritocracy. Ultimately, God is the true king over Israel.

[phuckphace]

@phuckphace (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/member.php?u=72511)

Biblically, the monarchy is not absolute. It is balanced by the Sanhedrin, which functions as a meritocracy. Ultimately, God is the true king over Israel.

so more like an ecclesiocracy then?

[tovaris]

I think there is other countries worse then Israel rightnow, Like Russia, North Korea, Syria, Saudi Arabia and US.
Non of the listed are at war with a nother country/nation. And non of those are curently commiting genoside.
But yeah, lets first Nuke USA than israel if you ask me

/.../
"ein Volk, ein Reich" /.../
Do we realy want that? wanst 1 experience in history enouth?

[phuckphace]

Non of the listed are at war with a nother country/nation. And non of those are curently commiting genoside.
But yeah, lets first Nuke USA than israel if you ask me

nukes = genocide

Do we realy want that? wanst 1 experience in history enouth?

what is "deportation"

[mattsmith48]

Non of the listed are at war with a nother country/nation. And non of those are curently commiting genoside.
But yeah, lets first Nuke USA than israel if you ask me


Do we realy want that? wanst 1 experience in history enouth?

Wtf are you talking about? Russia is invading Ukraine rightnow, leaders in Saudi Arabia and North Korea are killing a lot of people for no reason. The US is a terrorist state they go in other countries to bomb them killing millions of inocent people in the process. Nuking would be then worse thing someone could do to another country and they would then be worse then Israel.

[tovaris]

nukes = genocide
nukes kill reguardless of race, skin colour or anything; not genocide

Wtf are you talking about? Russia is invading Ukraine rightnow, /.../

Pleas tell me you are joking. Russia is NOT invading Ukraine.


/.../
leaders in Saudi Arabia and North Korea are killing a lot of people for no reason./.../

Not the same as going out and killing a nation in its entirety just for existing. What hitler did.
im not saying these countries arent bad, but izrael is much worst


/.../
The US is a terrorist state they go in other countries to bomb them killing millions of inocent people in the process. Nuking would be then worse thing someone could do to another country and they would then be worse then Israel.
The inconpetance of USA prevents them from being able of commiting actual genocide

[Vlerchan]

nukes kill reguardless of race, skin colour or anything; not genocide
It is when a specific nation is targeted.

---

There's also a number of countries mentioned previous that are at the moment engaged in suppressing the self-determination of some national minorities.

[phuckphace]

I just remembered that commies are totally okay with continent-sized bloodbaths as long as a race or group isn't singled out, which is racist af and I literally couldn't even. you show them pics of commies capping kids and their comeback is always some dronelike variant of "b-but their parents were evil kulaks hurr durr" :lol3: we all know the Tsar's kids were personally directing the bourgeois oppression with their young bourgeois shitlord brains, ugh

get a clue, people. the cognitive dissonance is so strong it's bending spacetime.

[Miserabilia]

I don't know lots about the Israel/Palestine situation other than what I get from news and that, and I try to filter it, but there's a lot going on. From my point of view, I think Israel should be charged with war crimes. Israel's origins were a bad idea, as it attempted to displace one nation with theirs and expect the original nation to be okay with that. Though I feel so many countries have had their origins be of a destructive nature, it does not mean that one just gets rid of the country. If I could reverse time, I would see Israel to not be around, by altering its origins. I cannot though, nobody can. To attempt to erase one country because it attempted to erase another, does nothing useful. I won't say more, because I don't know everything going on. I am trying my best to go with solid views, though.
But oh - Netanyahu, from what I know, is along Donald Trump with how much I like him. If anything, he should not exist.

Basicly this.
I don't exactly aggree with Israel's existence in the first place; though that doesn't mean I'm 100% anti-israel all the way.

[Bull]

Wtf are you talking about? Russia is invading Ukraine rightnow, leaders in Saudi Arabia and North Korea are killing a lot of people for no reason. The US is a terrorist state they go in other countries to bomb them killing millions of inocent people in the process. Nuking would be then worse thing someone could do to another country and they would then be worse then Israel.

You need to do some fact checking on US. Millions? Really? What about troups from Canada?

[mattsmith48]

Millions in the last 15 years yes! Not our fault we had George Bush jr running the country for 10 years at least were stopping

[Hyper]

Ignoring most of this stuff, I know there's a sort of a ''debate'' about wether the denomination Israeli is purely ethnical or religious or a mixture of both...

But why is a religious or ethnicity based Israeli state OK while others aren't? At least in the general view of the political powers that be and most people included.

[Porpoise101]

Open a history book comerad.
Germany unlike USSR was not disopated into many countries (the fact it was reunited is a crime against humanty). Germans made Hitler
I would say that the modern German state is a successor to the Carolingian empire just as France is. Maybe Bavaria could be separated but not the rest.

[Judean Zealot]

Ignoring most of this stuff, I know there's a sort of a ''debate'' about wether the denomination Israeli is purely ethnical or religious or a mixture of both...

But why is a religious or ethnicity based Israeli state OK while others aren't? At least in the general view of the political powers that be and most people included.

I'll be quite honest, I see no problem in general with a state centered around a specific religion. Ultimately, a state founded around a defined social ideal has more potential than a Rousseou style "social contract". Even John Locke's ideal state is tolerant exclusively to the bearers of Lockean tolerance.

[Arkansasguy]

Ignoring most of this stuff, I know there's a sort of a ''debate'' about wether the denomination Israeli is purely ethnical or religious or a mixture of both...

But why is a religious or ethnicity based Israeli state OK while others aren't? At least in the general view of the political powers that be and most people included.

A state needs a single ideology to run.

[phuckphace]

I'm still waiting for an explanation from the red krew why mass slaughter is just fine and dandy as long as it's not genocide by fascists. what's the difference between the Red Army shooting kulak children and Hitler sending Anne Frank to Bergen-Belsen for being a hooknosed kike? (trick question, there isn't one.)

[Judean Zealot]

Millions in the last 15 years yes! Not our fault we had George Bush jr running the country for 10 years at least were stopping

Can you please source your body count?

[Emerald Dream]

Let's stop the inappropriate posting and flaming, please. Posts have been deleted.

[mattsmith48]

Can you please source your body count?

Fine 100 of thousands people

[Judean Zealot]

Fine 100 of thousands people

Like 300,000 if I recall correctly.