Rape as an excuse for abortion in all circumstances.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

Here, have a flow chart: http://imgur.com/GDy9RgQ

TL;DR -- A woman should not have to go through the pain (emotional and physical) of carrying and birthing a child whose conception she had almost no control over. If abortion is only legal for rape victims it puts them in an uncomfortable situation, therefore it should be available to all, if only for the sake of rape victims.

[the_dude69]

Thanks for sharing.

Myself personally I have no right to tell a woman if she can't get an abortion bc im not a woman. If I were to get a girl pregnant I'm not the one who decides what to do with it. So I find it weird that men want to get into something that is a issue which no man will face.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

Thanks for sharing.

Myself personally I have no right to tell a woman if she can't get an abortion bc im not a woman. If I were to get a girl pregnant I'm not the one who decides what to do with it. So I find it weird that men want to get into something that is a issue which no man will face.

This is where I disagree. When it comes to ethics, all members of a society have a responsibility to put forth an opinion. While they may not have a right to make a choice for a woman, if they feel abortion is unethical they have an obligation to vote for a representative that feels the same way, unless of course another issue is higher up on their list of concerns, in which case they may have to compromise.

Let's look at the idea of jihad in the islamic faith. Even though the decision to commit jihad pertains mainly to those of the islamic faith, as an agnostic I still feel that I have a right to have and voice an opinion on jihad.

The difference between jihad and abortion is of course that one can make an argument for allowing abortion, where as it would be extremely difficult to make a valid defense for jihad.

[LouBerry]

Here, have a flow chart: http://imgur.com/GDy9RgQ

TL;DR -- A woman should not have to go through the pain (emotional and physical) of carrying and birthing a child whose conception she had almost no control over. If abortion is only legal for rape victims it puts them in an uncomfortable situation, therefore it should be available to all, if only for the sake of rape victims.

I know I have the unpopular opinion on abortion, but Jesus, the baby didn't do anything wrong. It's one of those situations where there is no right thing to do. It's not right to make the mother go through that, and it's not right to kill an innocent child.

[Sir Suomi]

Personally, I do not like the idea of abortion. I consider it a waste of a potential life, a life that could have succeeded in doing many great things, such as create a permanent cure for something like AIDS. Granted, this same potential life could have became a mass murderer. But my personal opinion should not govern another's life. If a women chooses to opt for abortion, I won't hold it against her. However, I'd hope that the women consider her choices with extreme care, and also, I'd prefer it be before the first trimester has ended, due to the fact that in that stage it's little more than a collections of cells. But in the end, it's her body, and her choice.

[Zenos]

while a woman had no control via rape for the life she is carrying at the same time that baby did not asked to be made is as much a victim as the mother.

So would you really punish one victim by killing it just because the mother had no say in it's being made due to rape?

Everyone runs to the abortion idea when it comes to a rape victim even though there are plenty of people out there who can not have children.

Why kill one victim of a rape( the baby) just because the woman had no say in it's making why not be humane and put the baby up for adoption so that a couple who can not have children can adopt that child and give it a chance at life and give it a chance to make a difference in this world for the better???

[the_dude69]

Personally, I do not like the idea of abortion. I consider it a waste of a potential life, a life that could have succeeded in doing many great things, such as create a permanent cure for something like AIDS. Granted, this same potential life could have became a mass murderer. But my personal opinion should not govern another's life. If a women chooses to opt for abortion, I won't hold it against her. However, I'd hope that the women consider her choices with extreme care, and also, I'd prefer it be before the first trimester has ended, due to the fact that in that stage it's little more than a collections of cells. But in the end, it's her body, and her choice.

Or maybe because of abortion we are living without a new hitler bc he was aborted. The only thing that makes me feel like I should support abortion is for stem cells. I mean can you please tell me how getting stem cells from a aborted fetus is inhumane!!?!?!? The miracles that stem cells can do is astonishing. Someone who is paralyzed could possibly be able to walk again. Society has up roared over something that isn't a member of society but rarely bring up the people in this country that play knockout and that's not racial I was baptized by an african American. But that's not acceptable.

while a woman had no control via rape for the life she is carrying at the same time that baby did not asked to be made is as much a victim as the mother.

So would you really punish one victim by killing it just because the mother had no say in it's being made due to rape?

Everyone runs to the abortion idea when it comes to a rape victim even though there are plenty of people out there who can not have children.

Why kill one victim of a rape( the baby) just because the woman had no say in it's making why not be humane and put the baby up for adoption so that a couple who can not have children can adopt that child and give it a chance at life and give it a chance to make a difference in this world for the better???

I've never met anyone who remembers being in the womb.

Haha yeah adoption. Let's send it to live with foster parents with 15 otger adopted kids. I know there are good foster parents but people don't realize that most likely they are going to grow up in a very dysfunctional household

[Zenos]

I've never met anyone who remembers being in the womb.

Haha yeah adoption. Let's send it to live with foster parents with 15 otger adopted kids. I know there are good foster parents but people don't realize that most likely they are going to grow up in a very dysfunctional household

where did I say anything about anyone remembering being in the womb.




dysfunctional dysmunctional that's the biggest cop out ever! a child has as much of a chance of being born into one as being adopted into one.

And yes a child that is a product of rape is just as much a victim as the mother

[conniption]

while a woman had no control via rape for the life she is carrying at the same time that baby did not asked to be made is as much a victim as the mother.

So would you really punish one victim by killing it just because the mother had no say in it's being made due to rape?

Everyone runs to the abortion idea when it comes to a rape victim even though there are plenty of people out there who can not have children.

Why kill one victim of a rape( the baby) just because the woman had no say in it's making why not be humane and put the baby up for adoption so that a couple who can not have children can adopt that child and give it a chance at life and give it a chance to make a difference in this world for the better???

Yeah! Rape victims, completely forget about the fact the fetus growing inside of you was the product of a sexual assault that has scarred you for life and keep it in you for another painful nine months. I mean, you survived the rape, so surely you can take giving birth to your attacker's child.

Get real. Do you even understand how rape victims feel? Nobody wins in this type of situation, but that doesn't mean the woman doesn't have the right to abort.

[the_dude69]

Yeah! Rape victims, completely forget about the fact the fetus growing inside of you was the product of a sexual assault that has scarred you for life and keep it in you for another painful nine months. I mean, you survived the rape, so surely you can take giving birth to your attacker's child.

Get real. Do you even understand how rape victims feel? Nobody wins in this type of situation, but that doesn't mean the woman doesn't have the right to abort.

I agree that woman would be reminded every day for nine months about it. And I don't think that it's fair to the kid. The mother won't want him and his father definitely has psychological issues that now was given to him and knowing that you were product of rape isn't the best way to get started in life

[Zenos]

Yeah! Rape victims, completely forget about the fact the fetus growing inside of you was the product of a sexual assault that has scarred you for life and keep it in you for another painful nine months. I mean, you survived the rape, so surely you can take giving birth to your attacker's child.

Get real. Do you even understand how rape victims feel? Nobody wins in this type of situation, but that doesn't mean the woman doesn't have the right to abort.


No need to be snotty acting! I'm just saying give the child a chance with another family! theres nothing wrong with that.

All a person aborting the baby is doing is punishing it for something it had no control over,two wrongs don't make a right! never have never will!

hellsbells i'm the product of a rape,and my birth mother who ever she was gave me up for adoption, I didn't ask to be here but i'm glad I am here npne the less and if I can have a normal shot at life so can other children that got here that way!!! So yeh I have a right to my opinion and FIRM belief in what I say!!!~

[the_dude69]

No need to be snotty acting! I'm just saying give the child a chance with another family! theres nothing wrong with that.

All a person aborting the baby is doing is punishing it for something it had no control over,two wrongs don't make a right! never have never will!

hellsbells i'm the product of a rape,and my birth mother who ever she was gave me up for adoption, I didn't ask to be here but i'm glad I am here npne the less and if I can have a normal shot at life so can other children that got here that way!!! So yeh I have a right to my opinion and FIRM belief in what I say!!!~

That's awesome man. My messages might have sounded snappy im always chill tho a downside to messages.

I still think that I wouldn't have known anything different if I was aborted. I mean it sounds harsh but when I ejaculate I don't feel sorry for the millions of living organisms I wash them down tha sink. *all seamen belongs to float to sea*

[conniption]

No need to be snotty acting! I'm just saying give the child a chance with another family! theres nothing wrong with that.

All a person aborting the baby is doing is punishing it for something it had no control over,two wrongs don't make a right! never have never will!

hellsbells i'm the product of a rape,and my birth mother who ever she was gave me up for adoption, I didn't ask to be here but i'm glad I am here npne the less and if I can have a normal shot at life so can other children that got here that way!!! So yeh I have a right to my opinion and FIRM belief in what I say!!!~

I was using sarcasm. Anyway, just because you were the product of a rape and now live a happy-go-lucky life does not mean that every other rape victim should do the same. It's their body, their choice. There's no room for personal opinions or different scenarios.

[AlexOnToast]

I know I have the unpopular opinion on abortion, but Jesus, the baby didn't do anything wrong. It's one of those situations where there is no right thing to do. It's not right to make the mother go through that, and it's not right to kill an innocent child.

I agree, there is no right. But when you weigh the two aspects, I think the prospect of a woman unwillingly giving birth is less terrible than ending an innocent child's life.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

while a woman had no control via rape for the life she is carrying at the same time that baby did not asked to be made is as much a victim as the mother.



The baby itself is victimizing the mother. It is subjecting her to months of daily emotional and mental trauma.



So would you really punish one victim by killing it just because the mother had no say in it's being made due to rape?



We're not punishing the "victim". It is the source of mental and emotional suffering for a rape victim therefore we are giving her the option to neutralize this pain.



Everyone runs to the abortion idea when it comes to a rape victim even though there are plenty of people out there who can not have children.



I cannot have a baby. Therefore, I am going to force an already traumatized rape victim to carry and birth a child even though it will cause her to go through even more emotional and mental anguish. But hey, at least I get me a baby.

Is that not the most selfish train of thought you have ever read?



Why kill one victim of a rape( the baby) just because the woman had no say in it's making why not be humane and put the baby up for adoption so that a couple who can not have children can adopt that child and give it a chance at life and give it a chance to make a difference in this world for the better???

[/QUOTE]

- The baby is causing the rape victim extreme pain. She has the right to remove the source of this pain the same way she would have had the right to kill her rapist while she was being raped if it meant the rape would stop.
- She is not responsible to be a human incubator anymore than another woman just so that a couple can adopt a child.



No need to be snotty acting! I'm just saying give the child a chance with another family! theres nothing wrong with that.



The issue is not what happens to the baby after the pregnancy. The issue is that the woman has to wake up every morning for nine months and see a swollen belly that reminds her of what happened. The issue is that she has to go through the physical discomfort of birthing a child that was forced upon her.



All a person aborting the baby is doing is punishing it for something it had no control over,two wrongs don't make a right! never have never will!



Again, we're not punishing the baby. It just happens to be the cause of continued trauma and the mother has a right to stop that trauma. While two wrongs don't make a right, a third wrong might be prevented if the second wrong is committed. Either way two wrongs are going to be committed. Either the woman has to carry and birth a child that was forced upon her or she has to remove that child. May as well settle for the wrong that has direct benefits.



hellsbells i'm the product of a rape,and my birth mother who ever she was gave me up for adoption, I didn't ask to be here but i'm glad I am here npne the less and if I can have a normal shot at life so can other children that got here that way!!! So yeh I have a right to my opinion and FIRM belief in what I say!!!~



What your mother did was great. She stood up for what she believed even though it may have caused her a great deal of pain. That being said, not every woman has that belief. It's also possible that your mother wasn't as traumatized as other rape victims. The point is not every woman is the same as your mother, so they shouldn't be forced to make that same decision.

[Typhlosion]

I'm having a hard time with this flowchart. I get to "It should be legal in all cases." and have no "Agree" option, unless that's an end to the flowchart. It does seem a bit aggressive, though.

As to the OP, I'm having a hard time empathizing w/ the rape victim. I cannot imagine the trauma of being raped, unfortunately.

On abortion, I do believe that it's the mother's choice on her own life in any scenario, even a ridiculous abortion for a "responsible" teen should be allowed.
Why? As we say in Brazil, "É melhor que um pássaro na mão que dois voando", or, It's better to have a bird in hands than two flying. If one is not ready for a child, be it medical, emotional, financial or any other problems, who's to guarantee a healthy future from a less-healthy mother?
But it's a human life. You mustn't kill! And do what? Even after forcing the mother to have the baby, send it to populated adoption centers to rot? Street urchin? And at the maximum of the first trimester, the fetus is not a independent body nor possesses thought. This, coupled with the care for "tortured" animals at medicine and livestock or the whole wildlife/anti-metropolis makes me think we're putting ourselves at the bottom of the list. Kill the woman's life for a potentially good child? Or let the woman decide?

[PerpetualImperfexion]

I'm having a hard time with this flowchart. I get to "It should be legal in all cases." and have no "Agree" option, unless that's an end to the flowchart. It does seem a bit aggressive, though.

As to the OP, I'm having a hard time empathizing w/ the rape victim. I cannot imagine the trauma of being raped, unfortunately.

On abortion, I do believe that it's the mother's choice on her own life in any scenario, even a ridiculous abortion for a "responsible" teen should be allowed.
Why? As we say in Brazil, "É melhor que um pássaro na mão que dois voando", or, It's better to have a bird in hands than two flying. If one is not ready for a child, be it medical, emotional, financial or any other problems, who's to guarantee a healthy future from a less-healthy mother?
But it's a human life. You mustn't kill! And do what? Even after forcing the mother to have the baby, send it to populated adoption centers to rot? Street urchin? And at the maximum of the first trimester, the fetus is not a independent body nor possesses thought. This, coupled with the care for "tortured" animals at medicine and livestock or the whole wildlife/anti-metropolis makes me think we're putting ourselves at the bottom of the list. Kill the woman's life for a potentially good child? Or let the woman decide?

I'll admit that it was meant to be a bit aggressive. I go to a Christian school and while I was writing it I had them in mind. You see, a Christian is not going to admit that the child is not a person. The flow chart focuses on the pain of a pregnant rape victim rather than the unborn child. I was simply attempting to develop an argument that would tickle the heart strings of a Christian or really any person that disagrees with abortion based on a religious belief.

This really is only one aspect of the abortion debate. I could also talk about how the unborn child is violating the mother's right to her reproductive system the same way the rapist did. Or how adoption actually isn't better. I could even argue that the fetus is not an entity yet, but this does not work well with certain groups of people(such as christians). For me though, the rape victim argument is the strongest.

[yviedarling]

I do not agree with abortion, and I will never agree with abortion. I see no point in it. So you were raped, okay, I get that. It's tough for you. But tell me how you going through a traumatic experience gives you the right to end a life?

Some foster homes are bad, I get that. But when I was pregnant, and I wasn't sure if I was going to keep the baby, I had plenty of families that I MYSELF interviewed, I saw their homes, talked to them, even befriended some of them. And they were offering to pay for all of my medical expenses for the baby. This happens all the time, so don't say that you can't control where the baby goes, because you can.
And even if you can't, are you really saying it's okay to kill a baby anyway? Just because they potentially can live in a dysfunctional home? What the hell?

What would you do if there is an afterlife? How would you confront them? Nevermind what your religious views are, that doesn't matter. Could you still justify it if you had to talk to the baby face to face?

As for the stem cells, there are plenty of miscarried/stillborn babies for that. Trust me, I know. We don't need to kill off babies for science. I would MUCH rather be slow down scientifically to save a baby's life.

My baby's father is a rapist. He's going to have to come to grips with that, and it's going to really upset him. He might even worry he'll turn out the same way. But you better bet your muffins that I'm gonna do everything in my power to help him understand he won't turn out like his father, and you better bet your muffins that as long as I love him he will believe me and get over it.

When I was pregnant, my mother tried to force me to get an abortion, to the point where she actually took me to an abortion clinic, without my knowledge that's where we were going. Thankfully, it didn't work out and I got to keep the baby. But you know what she said to me when we were driving back home? "I'm trying to give you your life back." It wasn't about the baby. It's NEVER about the baby. The whole argument about abortion is about women. And yes, women are important, but so is a baby. You have no idea who you kill, and I honestly see no difference between abortion and murder.

And if you still think that it's okay to abort, then think about this: How would you feel if your mother told you to your face you were supposed to be an abortion? And if you say you wouldn't feel sad or angry or anything, then I truly, truly feel sad for you.

[Harry Smith]

I do not agree with abortion, and I will never agree with abortion. I see no point in it. So you were raped, okay, I get that. It's tough for you. But tell me how you going through a traumatic experience gives you the right to end a life?

Some foster homes are bad, I get that. But when I was pregnant, and I wasn't sure if I was going to keep the baby, I had plenty of families that I MYSELF interviewed, I saw their homes, talked to them, even befriended some of them. And they were offering to pay for all of my medical expenses for the baby. This happens all the time, so don't say that you can't control where the baby goes, because you can.
And even if you can't, are you really saying it's okay to kill a baby anyway? Just because they potentially can live in a dysfunctional home? What the hell?

What would you do if there is an afterlife? How would you confront them? Nevermind what your religious views are, that doesn't matter. Could you still justify it if you had to talk to the baby face to face?

As for the stem cells, there are plenty of miscarried/stillborn babies for that. Trust me, I know. We don't need to kill off babies for science. I would MUCH rather be slow down scientifically to save a baby's life.

My baby's father is a rapist. He's going to have to come to grips with that, and it's going to really upset him. He might even worry he'll turn out the same way. But you better bet your muffins that I'm gonna do everything in my power to help him understand he won't turn out like his father, and you better bet your muffins that as long as I love him he will believe me and get over it.

When I was pregnant, my mother tried to force me to get an abortion, to the point where she actually took me to an abortion clinic, without my knowledge that's where we were going. Thankfully, it didn't work out and I got to keep the baby. But you know what she said to me when we were driving back home? "I'm trying to give you your life back." It wasn't about the baby. It's NEVER about the baby. The whole argument about abortion is about women. And yes, women are important, but so is a baby. You have no idea who you kill, and I honestly see no difference between abortion and murder.

And if you still think that it's okay to abort, then think about this: How would you feel if your mother told you to your face you were supposed to be an abortion? And if you say you wouldn't feel sad or angry or anything, then I truly, truly feel sad for you.

Firstly just because your opposed to abortion doesn't mean you have any right to tell other woman what to do with their bodies-you do not possess that right.

Secondly stem cells are not at all babies- you can scrape them off your pancreas and other organs in your body. Stem cells will probably be able to cure diseases such as Diabetes in the next 30 years so please don't make such a stupid claim. It's simply a cell which has the ability to change into anything-if that's a baby then semen might as well be a 25 year old adult.

The US supreme court and the majority of scientists disagree with you, if you think that an abortion at 5 weeks is murder than sexual intercourse is genocide.

Banning abortion doesn't stop abortion-it simply forces woman to go to backstreet abortion clinics so heck you could even argue in the grand scheme of it all abortions help save more lives if they're regulated by the state

[yviedarling]

Firstly just because your opposed to abortion doesn't mean you have any right to tell other woman what to do with their bodies-you do not possess that right.

Secondly stem cells are not at all babies- you can scrape them off your pancreas and other organs in your body. Stem cells will probably be able to cure diseases such as Diabetes in the next 30 years so please don't make such a stupid claim. It's simply a cell which has the ability to change into anything-if that's a baby then semen might as well be a 25 year old adult.

The US supreme court and the majority of scientists disagree with you, if you think that an abortion at 5 weeks is murder than sexual intercourse is genocide.

Banning abortion doesn't stop abortion-it simply forces woman to go to backstreet abortion clinics so heck you could even argue in the grand scheme of it all abortions help save more lives if they're regulated by the state

Firstly, cut the attitude, sassypants.
Secondly, I was replying to SOMEONE ELSE's claim about abortion helping with stem cell research, so don't call me stupid for that. I never said anything about knowing about any of that.
And thirdly, I don't care what scientists OR the Supreme Court say. There are a lot of things that scientists and US Supreme Court think that are wrong. Just because they say it isn't alive, doesn't mean it is ethically okay. If that's the deal, then necrophilia or desecration of the grave shouldn't matter. They're not alive, so it isn't a big deal, right?
And nowhere in my post did I say abortion should be banned or illegal.

And if you're going to say it's not my right to control anyone else's body, okay. I agree with you. That's not my intention. I'm trying to get people to see how getting an abortion is wrong. I honestly think we shouldn't ban abortion for safety reasons, but I don't think anyone should get one. But a different perspective is, I mean, it's not anyone's choice to tell a person not to kill themselves, so does that mean we shouldn't try to help them see why they're wrong?

[Harry Smith]

Firstly, cut the attitude, sassypants.
Secondly, I was replying to SOMEONE ELSE's claim about abortion helping with stem cell research, so don't call me stupid for that. I never said anything about knowing about any of that.
And thirdly, I don't care what scientists OR the Supreme Court say. There are a lot of things that scientists and US Supreme Court think that are wrong. Just because they say it isn't alive, doesn't mean it is ethically okay. If that's the deal, then necrophilia or desecration of the grave shouldn't matter. They're not alive, so it isn't a big deal, right?
And nowhere in my post did I say abortion should be banned or illegal.

And if you're going to say it's not my right to control anyone else's body, okay. I agree with you. That's not my intention. I'm trying to get people to see how getting an abortion is wrong. I honestly think we shouldn't ban abortion for safety reasons, but I don't think anyone should get one. But a different perspective is, I mean, it's not anyone's choice to tell a person not to kill themselves, so does that mean we shouldn't try to help them see why they're wrong?

Ethics wise abortion is a completely different matter. You can debate the ethics of it all day long, you can debate the ethics of homosexuality all day long. It's about actually ensuring that the right safeguards and laws are placed in.

Comparing abortion to necrophilia is a pretty crap example to be honest-necrophilia is done for sexual pleasure where as an abortion isn't. I could go on to list the differences but it's not really worth it.

You should care about what scientists have said- they've got a lot more knowledge than you or me on the subject. You should also listen to what the US supreme court has to say. You can't just disregard them because they disagree with you

As always with any pro-abortion argument you seem to retreat into the whole 'they're killing babies,they're murders etc' which is complete bullshit. As I said before if abortion is murder then what is sex? Genocide?

[Stronk Serb]

Not going to judge since I can't carry a child. Abortion should be legal because of safety reasons. If people say abortion is murder, then masturbation is genocide, or having protected sex is genocide. I can assume that rape victims will be reminded of the rapist every day if they carry the child unwillingly.

[yviedarling]

Ethics wise abortion is a completely different matter. You can debate the ethics of it all day long, you can debate the ethics of homosexuality all day long. It's about actually ensuring that the right safeguards and laws are placed in.

Comparing abortion to necrophilia is a pretty crap example to be honest-necrophilia is done for sexual pleasure where as an abortion isn't. I could go on to list the differences but it's not really worth it.

You should care about what scientists have said- they've got a lot more knowledge than you or me on the subject. You should also listen to what the US supreme court has to say. You can't just disregard them because they disagree with you

As always with any pro-abortion argument you seem to retreat into the whole 'they're killing babies,they're murders etc' which is complete bullshit. As I said before if abortion is murder then what is sex? Genocide?

For someone to say necrophilia doesn't have anything to do with abortion, I have no clue why you're trying to bring up homosexuality.
And I think it's completely stupid that you completely ignored the fact that I agree abortion should be legal.
And no, necrophilia isn't a crap example in the context that I give. Because, going on YOUR logic that the reason abortion is fine is because the baby isn't alive in your mind yet, then necrophilia should also be okay because the person isn't alive and it's not like they know the difference.

And, yes. They are killing babies, that's a fact. The only thing people seem to disagree on is at what point they are alive.

No, sex isn't genocide, neither is masturbation. You know what the difference is? A fertilized egg.

And just because scientists know more about a certain subject, doesn't mean I should base my moral code on them. What if scientists suddenly come out saying rape is okay, because they studied it and it turns out it's not that bad? Does that mean that you expect people to just switch over to the "rape is okay" bandwagon?
Same thing applies with the US Supreme Court. Just because they think something is okay, doesn't mean I do. Because you know what? They're just people. They aren't gods, they're living human beings with opinions. And yes, they are opinions. Because there are still scientists out there that don't believe in abortion, and they've studied it just as much as the guys who think it's okay.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

There is a difference between being of the opinion that abortion is a terrible thing and being of the opinion that abortion should be illegal. One is simply an opinion, the other disregards other's opinions. Just throwing that out there.

[Harry Smith]

And, yes. They are killing babies, that's a fact.

And just because scientists know more about a certain subject, doesn't mean I should base my moral code on them. What if scientists suddenly come out saying rape is okay, because they studied it and it turns out it's not that bad? .

That's not a fact actually-it's your opinion

[Vlerchan]

And, yes. They are killing babies, that's a fact. The only thing people seem to disagree on is at what point they are alive.
No.

What people disagree on is at what point they become babies. I think we can all agree that a foetus is alive.

[yviedarling]

thought about it, and I changed my mind. rape is a valid reason for abortion. while i don't agree with abortion, i've never been through the trauma of rape and can not get into the mindset of a raped woman.

[Miserabilia]

I think abortion should be legal for everyone, as long as it's in the earliest stage.

thought about it, and I changed my mind. rape is a valid reason for abortion. while i don't agree with abortion, i've never been through the trauma of rape and can not get into the mindset of a raped woman.

It's good that you are opening your mind and being so understanding, it's a shame so many people still think abortion is worse than rape and having to deliver the baby of a rapist..
I'm goin to respond to your other post anyway, just thought I should;

For someone to say necrophilia doesn't have anything to do with abortion, I have no clue why you're trying to bring up homosexuality.
And I think it's completely stupid that you completely ignored the fact that I agree abortion should be legal.
And no, necrophilia isn't a crap example in the context that I give. Because, going on YOUR logic that the reason abortion is fine is because the baby isn't alive in your mind yet, then necrophilia should also be okay because the person isn't alive and it's not like they know the difference.

And, yes. They are killing babies, that's a fact. The only thing people seem to disagree on is at what point they are alive.

No, sex isn't genocide, neither is masturbation. You know what the difference is? A fertilized egg.

And just because scientists know more about a certain subject, doesn't mean I should base my moral code on them. What if scientists suddenly come out saying rape is okay, because they studied it and it turns out it's not that bad? Does that mean that you expect people to just switch over to the "rape is okay" bandwagon?
Same thing applies with the US Supreme Court. Just because they think something is okay, doesn't mean I do. Because you know what? They're just people. They aren't gods, they're living human beings with opinions. And yes, they are opinions. Because there are still scientists out there that don't believe in abortion, and they've studied it just as much as the guys who think it's okay.



logic that the reason abortion is fine is because the baby isn't alive in your mind yet, then necrophilia should also be okay because the person isn't alive and it's not like they know the difference.

Except that abortion is not having sex with the feutus, it's removing it.

And, yes. They are killing babies, that's a fact. The only thing people seem to disagree on is at what point they are alive.

Not babies, featuses that aren't alive yet.
(Their cells are alive but they are biologicaly not alive yet, they are only alive from birth on)

No, sex isn't genocide, neither is masturbation. You know what the difference is? A fertilized egg.


The point is, that if you think abortion is murder, than masterbation and sex are genocide.

These are also, living cells.

And just because scientists know more about a certain subject, doesn't mean I should base my moral code on them. What if scientists suddenly come out saying rape is okay, because they studied it and it turns out it's not that bad? Does that mean that you expect people to just switch over to the "rape is okay" bandwagon?

They aren't studying moral code, they are studying whether or not the featus is alive or not, etc.
THey are not judging whether or not it is okay.

Same thing applies with the US Supreme Court. Just because they think something is okay, doesn't mean I do. Because you know what? They're just people. They aren't gods, they're living human beings with opinions. And yes, they are opinions. Because there are still scientists out there that don't believe in abortion, and they've studied it just as much as the guys who think it's okay.

What, abortion is religion now?
Ofcourse there are also researchers that think abortion is wrong, but that has nothing to do with science.

None of them have proven a feutus in the first stages to be fully alive, and it is impossible for them to be concious;
untill one of them does, I keep my opinion as it is now.
I'm basing it on what we know of feuteses in the first stage.

[Dark Hatred]

I do not agree with abortion, and I will never agree with abortion. I see no point in it. So you were raped, okay, I get that. It's tough for you. But tell me how you going through a traumatic experience gives you the right to end a life?

Some foster homes are bad, I get that. But when I was pregnant, and I wasn't sure if I was going to keep the baby, I had plenty of families that I MYSELF interviewed, I saw their homes, talked to them, even befriended some of them. And they were offering to pay for all of my medical expenses for the baby. This happens all the time, so don't say that you can't control where the baby goes, because you can.
And even if you can't, are you really saying it's okay to kill a baby anyway? Just because they potentially can live in a dysfunctional home? What the hell?

What would you do if there is an afterlife? How would you confront them? Nevermind what your religious views are, that doesn't matter. Could you still justify it if you had to talk to the baby face to face?

As for the stem cells, there are plenty of miscarried/stillborn babies for that. Trust me, I know. We don't need to kill off babies for science. I would MUCH rather be slow down scientifically to save a baby's life.

My baby's father is a rapist. He's going to have to come to grips with that, and it's going to really upset him. He might even worry he'll turn out the same way. But you better bet your muffins that I'm gonna do everything in my power to help him understand he won't turn out like his father, and you better bet your muffins that as long as I love him he will believe me and get over it.

When I was pregnant, my mother tried to force me to get an abortion, to the point where she actually took me to an abortion clinic, without my knowledge that's where we were going. Thankfully, it didn't work out and I got to keep the baby. But you know what she said to me when we were driving back home? "I'm trying to give you your life back." It wasn't about the baby. It's NEVER about the baby. The whole argument about abortion is about women. And yes, women are important, but so is a baby. You have no idea who you kill, and I honestly see no difference between abortion and murder.

And if you still think that it's okay to abort, then think about this: How would you feel if your mother told you to your face you were supposed to be an abortion? And if you say you wouldn't feel sad or angry or anything, then I truly, truly feel sad for you.

*claps in agreement*

[Gamma Male]

Fetuses are not sentient. They are not self-aware, and they can't feel pain, or fear, or joy, or any other emotion, and they cannot think. They are no more "alive" than a kidney or lung.
And as for the whole "but what about the life you're preventing from happening? Isn't it wrong to deny someone their right to exist?" argument, if any of you really believed that you would all do whatever it takes to have as many children as possible. Because for every second you're not out there having unprotected sex, you're preventing a child from being born.

[Its Pretty]

Fetuses are not sentient. They are not self-aware, and they can't feel pain, or fear, or joy, or any other emotion, and they cannot think. They are no more "alive" than a kidney or lung.
And as for the whole "but what about the life you're preventing from happening? Isn't it wrong to deny someone their right to exist?" argument, if any of you really believed that you would all do whatever it takes to have as many children as possible. Because for every second you're not out there having unprotected sex, you're preventing a child from being born.

QFT was just about to post something that sounded exactly like that.

[CharlieHorse]

Thanks for sharing.

Myself personally I have no right to tell a woman if she can't get an abortion bc im not a woman. If I were to get a girl pregnant I'm not the one who decides what to do with it. So I find it weird that men want to get into something that is a issue which no man will face.

this is beautiful

i believe it is completely up to the woman.

[Karkat]

There are two sides to how I feel on abortion in general:

-It's a child. I don't care what you say to make yourself feel better, it's a human child. A toenail or a piece of skin will never grow up to be a child, a fetus will unless it is aborted. (either by planned abortion or miscarriage- yes miscarriage is technically abortion; the actual definition of abortion is just that the pregnancy is prematurely terminated before the fetus can live outside the womb. Abortion as we know it is just a coined term, really.) I really hate it when people try to cop out of feeling anything by using irrelevant logic.

There's a difference between arguing when a life becomes a life...And avoiding moral responsibility by comparing a human fetus to the chicken you ate yesterday. It doesn't even make sense.

-There are so many reasons a child shouldn't have to be born/a woman shouldn't have to carry a child.


So I agree with abortion until a way is found to somehow preserve the child as well- unless the child is almost doomed to die months-a few years after birth. I don't support aborting children with Down Syndrome or autism...Have you ever met a child diagnosed with (low-mid functioning) autism or Down Syndrome that wanted to be dead? They are some of the happiest, most joyful and upbringing beings that exist. Also, I'm high functioning- that'd literally mean that I'd support my own abortion, ha. I don't think it's 'selfish' to bring a mentally ill/handicapped child into this world. Mental illness happens. Mental handicaps don't even have to be congenital- people get in accidents. They don't necessarily want to die. You can live a happy, fulfilling life with most ailments if you really want to.

So this being said, rape is actually one of the BIGGEST reasons abortion should exist right now. As a rape victim myself (who was convinced I was pregnant afterwards- thankfully I wasn't.) it kills me to read of women who have been raped- only to have their custody taken away, who have to pay child support to their attackers and deal with them CONSTANTLY. So for one thing there need to be a lot of changes in a lot of laws. But sadly it's a global thing, and who knows when/if it'll ever happen?

Plus, there are some couples who don't feel financially stable/ready for a child. I don't advocate this for the most part, but you have four choices:

-Abortion
-Putting the child up for adoption in an awful system
-Raising the kid anyways
-Celibacy

And none of those options are honestly that good.

The only real case I absolutely oppose abortions in are girls that just don't even take sex seriously, and KEEP getting knocked up, and KEEP getting abortions- the ones who don't take human life, or essentially anything seriously.

I'm not talking about those who engage in casual sex- I'm talking about the idiot girls that post things like "5 likes and I'll keep it haha" on Facebook, and so on.

So saying that I want abortion to be 'open for all' is a bit of a lie, but like you say, there's not much of a choice with the way our society stigmatizes things.

I personally would never be able to have an abortion. That's just me. The likelihood that I'll even be able to successfully have kids is rather slim, actually.

[Sydneyy]

Wat?

[Kurgg]

In my opinion a woman should have right to have an abortion if she has been raped. The baby there was not intented and both parties did not agreed to act.
Besides, babies achieve consiusness in five months of birth, so it won't be a big deal for the fetus.

[gothy]

You needn't an excuse. It should be (and to me it is) an absolute human right for women to get an abortion if they want or need. No questions asked. And if i was a female that was raped, i know i would definitely get an abortion. I only discourage abortions that take place AFTER 5 months of pregnancy. Although, i still believe that it is still the right of the woman to decide this.

[NickTheStar]

I agree gothy

[kanine]

In rape situations the woman should definately get to decide. But honestly in instances of consent it should be both the mother and fathers decision unless the child proves a huge risk to the mothers life.

[phuckphace]

I think it's permissible in the case of rape.

I know that if I got a girl pregnant and she went behind my back and killed my child, I'd hulk out.

[Elysium]

You needn't an excuse. It should be (and to me it is) an absolute human right for women to get an abortion if they want or need. No questions asked. And if i was a female that was raped, i know i would definitely get an abortion. I only discourage abortions that take place AFTER 5 months of pregnancy. Although, i still believe that it is still the right of the woman to decide this.
Please don't post in threads that have been inactive for two months or more. :locked: