Another Nazi Debate

[dontfiguremeout]

So I just had to start another debate on this cause I want to hear your opinions on this since I am using this for English class. But my next question/debate is, Should all Nazi signs be banned to the point where you cannot find any of the signs on the internet or anywhere?

[tundravortex]

No its part of history so they should be found.....if someone wants to tattoo it to themself well thats their problem

[LouBerry]

So I just had to start another debate on this cause I want to hear your opinions on this since I am using this for English class. But my next question/debate is, Should all Nazi signs be banned to the point where you cannot find any of the signs on the internet or anywhere?

Of course not. For many reasons, historical information for one, but being a Nazi is not illegal, and there are still Nazi's around. There are still groups in the U.S. Banning their signs would infringe on their rights.

[Sir Suomi]

We should not try and erase our humanity's legacy, whether that legacy be something good or evil. If we attempt to forget about our past, we're going to end up repeating it.

[Stronk Serb]

It is easy for Americans to say let them go, but if they wiped out 20% of your population or destroyed your country both socially and economically, would you say the same? I say ban the signs from piblic display unless it's for educational purposes, where you would be monitored, and if you openly support their cause, they are taken down.

[britishboy]

No freedom allows you to support anyone

It is easy for Americans to say let them go, but if they wiped out 20% of your population or destroyed your country both socially and economically, would you say the same? I say ban the signs from piblic display unless it's for educational purposes, where you would be monitored, and if you openly support their cause, they are taken down.

No I would ban communism, you would ban capitalism, Conservatives would ban Labour, Labour would ban Conservatives. Thinking like that leads to Nazi like dictatorships we must all be free to see whatever we like.

[xandyx]

I believe in free speech even if we don't like it or agree. It might not be the best part of human history but if we start having thought police we'd be bad too.

[Harry Smith]

No freedom allows you to support anyone



No I would ban communism, you would ban capitalism, Conservatives would ban Labour, Labour would ban Conservatives. Thinking like that leads to Nazi like dictatorships we must all be free to see whatever we like.

I'm sorry that's just plain wrong.

The labour party would not ban the conservative part and the conservatives would not ban labour. You quite clearly know nothing about British Politics because that's such an ignorant post.

[Korashk]

I'm sorry that's just plain wrong.

The labour party would not ban the conservative part and the conservatives would not ban labour. You quite clearly know nothing about British Politics because that's such an ignorant post.
And you quite clearly missed the point his post was conveying.

EDIT: Holy crap I just defended britishboy.

[Harry Smith]

And you quite clearly missed the point his post was conveying.

EDIT: Holy crap I just defended britishboy.

Not really, the whole Nazi debate really depends on the country in which your in. It could be argued that Nazi membership in Britain could be banned due to it being a hate crime where as banning a major party which holds no hateful views would indeed be illegal.

As Mike noted that Nazis did extreme damage, I would go as far to ban membership of the political party such as that which advocated genocide in a similar way in that there's a de-facto ban on the BNP in Britain.

The whole idea that banning one party would lead to mass censorship or dictatorship has been disproved by West Germany through the last 60 years-check the facts

[Stronk Serb]

No freedom allows you to support anyone



No I would ban communism, you would ban capitalism, Conservatives would ban Labour, Labour would ban Conservatives. Thinking like that leads to Nazi like dictatorships we must all be free to see whatever we like.


It should be banned because it's sponsoring genocide, hatred, racism and discrimination, all of which are major offenses by the former Yugoslav and current Serbian law. You should be allowed to be a Nazi, but you couldn't publicly propagate it or form a party based on those beliefs, or probably join any existing one.Communists or capitalists don't sponsor things like that, that's why they shouldn't be banned. Weimar Germany was a democracy, and by allowing Hitler to spread his influence, he gained more power. And please, would you keep that opinion if a quarter of the UK got slaughtered during WWII, and the industry you had was laid to waste, And if the only source of income for the next 15 years was only backwards agriculture?

[Achillea]

Isn't "the nazi sign" an ancient sign of peace and goodness too though? Just putting it out there:)

[ksdnfkfr]

Isn't "the nazi sign" an ancient sign of peace and goodness too though? Just putting it out there:)

I'm not sure what the original swastika represented,
but it was around a long time before Hitler stole it.
I know it has been used in India for centuries and
in Japanese culture as well.

[Stronk Serb]

I'm not sure what the original swastika represented,
but it was around a long time before Hitler stole it.
I know it has been used in India for centuries and
in Japanese culture as well.

I know a eight and three pointed versions were used by ancient Slavs. The swastika represents peace and prosperity I think. I think Nazi versions should be publibluy banned, or anything meant to spread Nazism (ie. a swastika next to a Nazi slogan).

[pjones]

Hitler used it for his purposes but the swastika was around for long time before that. according to the US Holocaust Memorial Museum website it has been around for at least 5000 years.
A point about banning anything to do with Nazism, didn't the leader of Iran claim the Holocaust never happened? isn't banning symbols of past horrors a form of denial as well?

"The swastika has an extensive history. It was used at least 5,000 years before Adolf Hitler designed the Nazi flag. The word swastika comes from the Sanskrit svastika, which means “good fortune” or “well-being." The motif (a hooked cross) appears to have first been used in Neolithic Eurasia, perhaps representing the movement of the sun through the sky. To this day it is a sacred symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Odinism. It is a common sight on temples or houses in India or Indonesia. Swastikas also have an ancient history in Europe, appearing on artifacts from pre-Christian European cultures" http://www.ushmm.org

[ksdnfkfr]

I know these days in the US it is often used to vandalize and troll.
Some idiots like scratching or carving a swastika into something to anger others.

[Typhlosion]

What would be the point in banning them?

If banned, how would we symbolize Nazi Germany in history? A sign not legitimate of the period?

Not only angering Nazi's and their extremists, wouldn't such censor an offense to our freedom? Sure, certain freedoms such as nudity should be withheld (or should it?) But censoring one's ideology because one should be offended is both decharacterizing the person adorning/showing off the swastika? If anything, it's a warning for people not to mess with them.

Plus, the swastika has many more meanings than just Nazism. Only slanted swastikas be banned?

[Human]

So you're saying that we should banish them from history, so that no one ever knows about Nazism? People will never learn from the past then, because we won't be able to see what went wrong. Nazi swastikas were originally signs of peace too I believe.

[Miserabilia]

It's completely impossible for something to be completely removed and forgotten from history these days.

[Aajj333]

The swastika is a symbol of peace in some religions and there are swasticas in Abraham Lincoln's tomb. I would be willing to bet that Abraham Lincoln isnt a Nazi. Also those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it, we can not ignore it like it never happened.

[Camazotz]

No, Nazi propaganda is important to education about World War II and the Holocaust. It's imperative that future generations learn about what transpired during this time through historical documents, pictures, videos, and other forms of evidence. The idea of banning the images of swastikas is almost as bad as book burning. Aside from being impractical, banning swastikas is not the message we need to send; rather, we need to understand what the symbol represents and why it carries such a negative connotation around it.

[Canadian Dream]

I don't think it should be banned, it's just a sign, even though we really should not think of it as a good thing. It's also part of our history and should be remembered. Also, for one of my science projects we had to make a poster to present it, and my partner accidentally made it unfold into a swastika. We didn't really get in trouble, people were just laughing a little. Should I have been suspended for an accident like this? I honestly don't think so.

[HUSTLEMAN]

I feel that the swastika should not be banned for any reason. Yes, I understand that the Nazi symbol in modern day culture is a sign of evil and Hitler's regime in the 1930's but you can just erase it, Its a part of world history. Besides, people still use them today and if you banned them it would be going against their freedom of speech here in the US and other countries.

[Sph2015]

That's dangerous censorship. No question.

Look at it this way. If your worry is modern day Nazis, wouldn't banning all of their old symbols make it easier for them to gain power? Today, as soon as we see someone rocking a swastika, we pretty much write that person off as awful. If you ban everything that calls to mind those awful events of the past, what's going to be the red flag? Just a thought.

The point is, I'd rather have public vocal Nazis I can ignore, than secret Nazis that I have no idea about.

[Green Arrow]

Let's not forget (if you'd pardon the pun) that on the 11th of November we congregate to not only not forget those who died for our country but also not to forget the mistakes that were made by others to cause such conflict. In this context, no swastika should not be banned completely as we need it as a way to educate people about the horrible acts that went on during WWII. Though I do believe the political party should.

[CosmicNoodle]

Dude, you cant just wipe out part of history. It should be kept, obviously not paraded around, but not obliterated from history.

[britishboy]

I'm sorry that's just plain wrong.

The labour party would not ban the conservative part and the conservatives would not ban labour. You quite clearly know nothing about British Politics because that's such an ignorant post.
Once again you have completely miss understood the point of my post.
It should be banned because it's sponsoring genocide, hatred, racism and discrimination, all of which are major offenses by the former Yugoslav and current Serbian law. You should be allowed to be a Nazi, but you couldn't publicly propagate it or form a party based on those beliefs, or probably join any existing one.Communists or capitalists don't sponsor things like that, that's why they shouldn't be banned. Weimar Germany was a democracy, and by allowing Hitler to spread his influence, he gained more power. And please, would you keep that opinion if a quarter of the UK got slaughtered during WWII, and the industry you had was laid to waste, And if the only source of income for the next 15 years was only backwards agriculture?
Ok you ban Nazis, I ban communists, you ban capitalists and I ban socialists. What I am trying to say is where will it stop?

[Stronk Serb]

Once again you have completely miss understood the point of my post.

Ok you ban Nazis, I ban communists, you ban capitalists and I ban socialists. What I am trying to say is where will it stop?

You missed my point. Capitalists or communists shouldn't be banned. They do not promote oppression, discrimination based on ethnicity and genocide.

[Harry Smith]

Ok you ban Nazis, I ban communists, you ban capitalists and I ban socialists. What I am trying to say is where will it stop?

Capitalism is an economic theory not an ideology/political party.

One top of that neither Marxism/capitalism has sent around 8 million to their deaths in a brutal industrial fashion

[Kameraden]

It is easy for Americans to say let them go, but if they wiped out 20% of your population or destroyed your country both socially and economically, would you say the same? I say ban the signs from piblic display unless it's for educational purposes, where you would be monitored, and if you openly support their cause, they are taken down.
I think you're forgetting that your banner of crimson and gold which you proudly boast beside every post is guilty for three times as many deaths as the National Socialist German Workers' Part was.

It should be banned because it's sponsoring genocide, hatred, racism and discrimination, all of which are major offenses by the former Yugoslav and current Serbian law. You should be allowed to be a Nazi, but you couldn't publicly propagate it or form a party based on those beliefs, or probably join any existing one.Communists or capitalists don't sponsor things like that, that's why they shouldn't be banned. Weimar Germany was a democracy, and by allowing Hitler to spread his influence, he gained more power. And please, would you keep that opinion if a quarter of the UK got slaughtered during WWII, and the industry you had was laid to waste, And if the only source of income for the next 15 years was only backwards agriculture?
Communists don't sponser discrimination and genocide?

I think you're also forgetting the Soviet famine of Eastern Europe in which states of the USSR (generally Ukraine) were forcibly starved and deported to gulags in Siberia. This practice claimed the lives of roughly two million (there is very terrible documentation on the matter) farmers, which caused the agriculture to fail.

Serbia was wasteland years before the war even began.

[abc983055235235231a]

I think you're forgetting that your banner of crimson and gold which you proudly boast beside every post is guilty for three times as many deaths as the National Socialist German Workers' Part was.


Communists don't sponser discrimination and genocide?

I think you're also forgetting the Soviet famine of Eastern Europe in which states of the USSR (generally Ukraine) were forcibly starved and deported to gulags in Siberia. This practice claimed the lives of roughly two million (there is very terrible documentation on the matter) farmers, which caused the agriculture to fail.

Serbia was wasteland years before the war even began.

The difference is that communism doesn't condone genocide. Nazism does.
Stalin wore the badge of communism, and Stalin committed a genocide. That does not mean that communism endorses genocide, any more than it means that to be Russian is to endorse genocide, or to be male is to endorse genocide, or to have a mustache is to endorse genocide.
The very tenets of nazism, however, entail that genocides be committed against certain groups of people. That's not saying "Hitler was a nazi, and Hitler committed a genocide"; rather it's saying "nazism is fundamentally genocidal".

[Stronk Serb]

I think you're forgetting that your banner of crimson and gold which you proudly boast beside every post is guilty for three times as many deaths as the National Socialist German Workers' Part was.

The National Socialistiche Deutche Arbaiter Partei was responsible for more then 30 million deaths carried out in World War II, more then a frickin half. What did the symbol do? It is a symbol of worker and peasant united fighting against the bourgeouise and the imperialists like the Nazis.

Communists don't sponser discrimination and genocide?

Yes. The very tenets of communism say that every man is equal no matter his ethnicity, gender or origin.

I think you're also forgetting the Soviet famine of Eastern Europe in which states of the USSR (generally Ukraine) were forcibly starved and deported to gulags in Siberia. This practice claimed the lives of roughly two million (there is very terrible documentation on the matter) farmers, which caused the agriculture to fail.

And your rampaging through the country didn't dothe same thing? See, that is not a communist decision. Just because someone sports a sickle and hammer badge doesn't mean he's a communist. The Nazi tenets encourage and sponsor genocide. "Ein Volk. Ein Reich. Ein Fuhrer." (One People(ethnicity). One Nation (independent). One Fuhrer(leader)) sounds pretty discriminative and genocide encouraging.

Serbia was wasteland years before the war even began.

That is irrelevant, but I will correct your statememt for the heck of it. We had an industry, although not as developed as the German one. We made our own rifles, planes, cannons, ammo and machine guns. Not to mention we have a lot of natural resources.

[Gwen]

That'd be stupid. There is no reason to ban a sign for something a group did. If someone has a swastika but hasn't done any "dirty Nazi deeds" why should they be in trouble for having possession of that symbol? It's like a government banning the symbol of the Cross because of the crusades. And it's not like they were the original users of the symbols as it's been used throughout history long before the "evil Nazis" started using it.

[Zenos]

It is easy for Americans to say let them go, but if they wiped out 20% of your population or destroyed your country both socially and economically, would you say the same? I say ban the signs from piblic display unless it's for educational purposes, where you would be monitored, and if you openly support their cause, they are taken down.


Sorry in America we do not infringe on the rights of others.

So if some rube wanted to goose step himself right down my street dressed like someone right out of any part od the Nazi party or the German armed forces of Nazi Germany while quoting Mien kampf... well that's his or her right to do so!

See Comrade Mike in America rights are bAcked by the theory that they work for all or they work for none !

The National Socialistiche Deutche Arbaiter Partei was responsible for more then 30 million deaths carried out in World War II, more then a frickin half. What did the symbol do? It is a symbol of worker and peasant united fighting against the bourgeouise and the imperialists like the Nazis.


( LOL yeh the workers paradise where no one owns a thing but it is shared by all,and everyone is the same theortically.Funny how the members of the Communist party set themselves up as kings of the masses,face it Communism failed in the end just as it's lesser form socialism,as well as it's opposite capitalism is now failing)


Yes. The very tenets of communism say that every man is equal no matter his ethnicity, gender or origin.

( but let a man wish to live outside of communism and bam they are wrong and jailed as well totured etc,plus no one is equal there ARE PEOPLE of all races and genders who are superior,communism tries to bring the best down to the same playing field as everyone else)

And your rampaging through the country didn't dothe same thing? See, that is not a communist decision. Just because someone sports a sickle and hammer badge doesn't mean he's a communist. The Nazi tenets encourage and sponsor genocide. "Ein Volk. Ein Reich. Ein Fuhrer." (One People(ethnicity). One Nation (independent). One Fuhrer(leader)) sounds pretty discriminative and genocide encouraging.

( and Herr Stalin wasn't a genocide causing nutcase?)

That is irrelevant, but I will correct your statememt for the heck of it. We had an industry, although not as developed as the German one. We made our own rifles, planes, cannons, ammo and machine guns. Not to mention we have a lot of natural resources.

Read my stuff in () in your posts.

Please do not double post. -Cygnus David

[Stronk Serb]

Sorry in America we do not infringe on the rights of others.

So if some rube wanted to goose step himself right down my street dressed like someone right out of any part od the Nazi party or the German armed forces of Nazi Germany while quoting Mien kampf... well that's his or her right to do so!

See Comrade Mike in America rights are bAcked by the theory that they work for all or they work for none !

Read my stuff in () in your posts.

Hateful public speech is illegal in Serbia. Also carrying discriminative symbols is illegal, like the Nazi Swastika (white and red background, or carried by an eagle), all other kinds of hateful speech and symbols are illegal.. The diference is, thecreators of communism and socialism, Marx and Engels didn't sponsor discrimination, unlike Hitler. The worker can get out of communism, gather likely minde individuals and go establish whatever they want. If you want to learn more, Wikipedia is a good start, last time I checked it was. And please stop using the Soviet Union as the prime example of communism. It is a totalitarian state-capitalist country.

[Zachary G]

you cant erase history, its been done and we have moved on and grown from it. now lets learn from it so we dont repeat it all over again.

[PinkFloyd]

Banning the swastika would not be a good thing at all. Banning it would in a way, make people less aware of the Holocaust which is definitely a subject that cannot lose publicity.

[Kameraden]

Hateful public speech is illegal in Serbia. Also carrying discriminative symbols is illegal, like the Nazi Swastika (white and red background, or carried by an eagle), all other kinds of hateful speech and symbols are illegal.. The diference is, thecreators of communism and socialism, Marx and Engels didn't sponsor discrimination, unlike Hitler. The worker can get out of communism, gather likely minde individuals and go establish whatever they want. If you want to learn more, Wikipedia is a good start, last time I checked it was. And please stop using the Soviet Union as the prime example of communism. It is a totalitarian state-capitalist country.

Funny considering Serbia is one of the most hateful countries on the planet.

[Stronk Serb]

Funny considering Serbia is one of the most hateful countries on the planet.

Really? Just because 1% are like that doesn't mean the rest are that bad. And please, because you made that statement, do you have a source to prove it?

[SecretlyKnown]

That is like ripping out a huge page from a Modern History book.

[Promans]

The swastika is a religious symbol and shouldn't be assumed to be about nazis.

[hockeyfan]

We should b able to look it up on our computers for research. U must understand y ppl wouldn't want to see it.

[DerBear]

Its part of history, culture and media. Banning would be more like a cover-up.

[Zenos]

Hateful public speech is illegal in Serbia. Also carrying discriminative symbols is illegal, like the Nazi Swastika (white and red background, or carried by an eagle), all other kinds of hateful speech and symbols are illegal.. The diference is, thecreators of communism and socialism, Marx and Engels didn't sponsor discrimination, unlike Hitler. The worker can get out of communism, gather likely minde individuals and go establish whatever they want. If you want to learn more, Wikipedia is a good start, last time I checked it was. And please stop using the Soviet Union as the prime example of communism. It is a totalitarian state-capitalist country.

I'd rather stick to a nation where I can say anything even if it hurts,why because I have the freedom to say it and have the balls to take the results of it.

[Stronk Serb]

I'd rather stick to a nation where I can say anything even if it hurts,why because I have the freedom to say it and have the balls to take the results of it.

Well, I think our system is better, because if you for example wave the Swastika on a red background carried by an eagle, many people who are Holocaust and Nazi genocide survivors will be hurt. That symbols makes them relive all the suffering during the war. That's my opinion.

[Zenos]

Well, I think our system is better, because if you for example wave the Swastika on a red background carried by an eagle, many people who are Holocaust and Nazi genocide survivors will be hurt. That symbols makes them relive all the suffering during the war. That's my opinion.



Um sorry a system where you don't have the right to express your views and beliefs is not better.

We are humans not cogs in a machine each person has their one views and beliefs to deny anyone the right to express their views and beliefs is denying a person their natural right as a human to think and feel what they want to.

I'm sorry our system in this case is better because at least within it a person can be themselves not a cog in a machine.In that light YOUR system is no better then that of Nazi Germany or that of the old Soviet Union!

[Stronk Serb]

Um sorry a system where you don't have the right to express your views and beliefs is not better.

We are humans not cogs in a machine each person has their one views and beliefs to deny anyone the right to express their views and beliefs is denying a person their natural right as a human to think and feel what they want to.

I'm sorry our system in this case is better because at least within it a person can be themselves not a cog in a machine.In that light YOUR system is no better then that of Nazi Germany or that of the old Soviet Union!

Umm, comparing Serbia to Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union is ridicoulous.

[Zenos]

Umm, comparing Serbia to Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union is ridicoulous.


No it's not once you start telling people you can't have this political leaning nor show that symbol of say this are that and pass laws to back up your can't do this can't do that policy your no better then Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union can't you see that ?

Don't u realize to be human is to be free and to be able to hold different views and beliefs and such?

[Stronk Serb]

No it's not once you start telling people you can't have this political leaning nor show that symbol of say this are that and pass laws to back up your can't do this can't do that policy your no better then Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union can't you see that ?

Don't u realize to be human is to be free and to be able to hold different views and beliefs and such?

What Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union had in common:

*Extremely totalitarian and oppressive regimes. You had to recite what they told you.

*Prison/death camps which killed millions in an industrial manner.

*Were ruled by one man who exercised unlimited power.

*Had high military spending, in order to support their power.

*Both were ruled by one party, and the government was appointed by the leader.

Serbia has nothing in common with those two lol. Hate speech is banned because it caused bloodshed in our past. National-socialist oriented parties are banned because the followers of that regime killed a quarter of our population. If you would put yourself in our shoes, maybe you would understand.

[Zenos]

What Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union had in common:

*Extremely totalitarian and oppressive regimes. You had to recite what they told you.

*Prison/death camps which killed millions in an industrial manner.

*Were ruled by one man who exercised unlimited power.

*Had high military spending, in order to support their power.

*Both were ruled by one party, and the government was appointed by the leader.

Serbia has nothing in common with those two lol. Hate speech is banned because it caused bloodshed in our past. National-socialist oriented parties are banned because the followers of that regime killed a quarter of our population. If you would put yourself in our shoes, maybe you would understand.


Still i'd rather live where I can say what I want even if I end up on the end of a backlash from it.

That's the problem with Germany and the soviet union back then a backlash of unpopular opinion couldn't derail them, here in the USA a good backlash of unpopular opinion can derail you

[Stronk Serb]

Still i'd rather live where I can say what I want even if I end up on the end of a backlash from it.

That's the problem with Germany and the soviet union back then a backlash of unpopular opinion couldn't derail them, here in the USA a good backlash of unpopular opinion can derail you

Here it can too. People still do it, but almost everyone is thinking that they should be deported off world. Everyone who is older remembers what chaufinism,ultra-nationalism and national-socialism brought us. Nothing but misery.

[Zenos]

The swastika is a religious symbol and shouldn't be assumed to be about nazis.

Plus it's not exclusive to one culture

Here it can too. People still do it, but almost everyone is thinking that they should be deported off world. Everyone who is older remembers what chaufinism,ultra-nationalism and national-socialism brought us. Nothing but misery.

well misery is part of life