Who's right? Who's wrong? Neither?

[Lovelife090994]

I know that every group, religious, secular, culinary, educational, etc. has those that are exceptional, radical, quiet, regular, to themselves, misunderstood, and sometimes amazingly arrogant. What I do not get is why so many who are Catholic, and not from the mouths of those who mean well and love all, but those who are I guess "old-fashioned" have a problem with Protestants? I understand that in the history of Christianity, the Orthodoxy and Church of Catholicism predates many "Protestant" sects. However, who on Earth do some think they are to say all Protestants are not right? Yes, I realize this is a religious topic, but I honestly have no idea why so many are hung up on being right all of the time or hung up on calling people wrong.

True, we cannot all be right, but why be combative? Outside of Christianity this happens in other faiths from Islamic, to Buddhists, to many others that not as mainstream. Even outside of faiths you find this. What is the deal of so many wanting to be right all of the time? I mean I see the point that no one generally likes to be wrong, but I wouldn't go so far as to stereotype against the whole group or the person and their personal beliefs. Haven't some forgot that sometimes neither are right or wrong especially when it comes to beliefs? If he is this and she is that, yes it conflicts but that doesn't mean that either of the two must fight. I get that even in science, so much is varied because many hold to different studies, beliefs, biases, and the like. Maybe it is human to want to be right, maybe not. I am not sure. However, much conflict in history has started over simple disagreements to do with beliefs both religious and non. Oh well, maybe this is pointless to discuss. But it came to mind.

[Harry Smith]

Simpsons sums up my view on it really

We believe that God's last prophet, Bart Simpson, preached a message of tolerance and love.

No,we believe the holy Bartman preached a message of understanding and peace

This is before the two sides go to war in the post apocalyptic society

[Gigablue]

True, we cannot all be right, but why be combative?

I don't think people are generally all that combative. Simple disagreement is not really combative. Even heated disagreement and be done civilly and respectfully.

I personally don't consider it combative to disagree with someone, to point out the flaws in their argument, to state that they are wrong, to state that I don't respect their opinion, etc. I think where you cross the line is when you get into stereotyping, censorship, discrimination, etc. There certainly is too much of that, but I think we should be careful in what we label combative and what we don't. Disagreeing with someone is not automatically combative.

What is the deal of so many wanting to be right all of the time? I mean I see the point that no one generally likes to be wrong, but I wouldn't go so far as to stereotype against the whole group or the person and their personal beliefs.

Doesn't everyone want to be right? Why would anyone hold an opinion that they think is wrong? I think most people their that they are right about most issues.

Haven't some forgot that sometimes neither are right or wrong especially when it comes to beliefs?

I disagree with this. There may be cases where neither is right, but whenever two people hold mutually exclusive beliefs, one or both of them must be wrong. That is simple logic. It would be nice if we could say that everyone is right in their own way, or that all beliefs are equally valid, but when we talk about the world, there are objective truths.

We should also separate belief from opinion. An opinion, by definition, isn't really right or wrong. You may have one opinion on something, and if may have another, neither is making an objective claim about reality, they are merely expressions of our personal preference. However, if I believe one thing about reality, and you believe another, at least one of us is wrong.

If he is this and she is that, yes it conflicts but that doesn't mean that either of the two must fight.

When the implications of a belief have wider ramifications, it is often necessary to debate. In order to make good decisions, one needs to have accurate information. If someone believes something that is wrong, they won't make as good decisions. I want to live in the best possible world, and I think good decision-making is necessary for that. Therefore, I think it is necessary to disabuse people of their incorrect beliefs.

[Lovelife090994]

I don't think people are generally all that combative. Simple disagreement is not really combative. Even heated disagreement and be done civilly and respectfully.

I personally don't consider it combative to disagree with someone, to point out the flaws in their argument, to state that they are wrong, to state that I don't respect their opinion, etc. I think where you cross the line is when you get into stereotyping, censorship, discrimination, etc. There certainly is too much of that, but I think we should be careful in what we label combative and what we don't. Disagreeing with someone is not automatically combative.



Doesn't everyone want to be right? Why would anyone hold an opinion that they think is wrong? I think most people their that they are right about most issues.



I disagree with this. There may be cases where neither is right, but whenever two people hold mutually exclusive beliefs, one or both of them must be wrong. That is simple logic. It would be nice if we could say that everyone is right in their own way, or that all beliefs are equally valid, but when we talk about the world, there are objective truths.

We should also separate belief from opinion. An opinion, by definition, isn't really right or wrong. You may have one opinion on something, and if may have another, neither is making an objective claim about reality, they are merely expressions of our personal preference. However, if I believe one thing about reality, and you believe another, at least one of us is wrong.



When the implications of a belief have wider ramifications, it is often necessary to debate. In order to make good decisions, one needs to have accurate information. If someone believes something that is wrong, they won't make as good decisions. I want to live in the best possible world, and I think good decision-making is necessary for that. Therefore, I think it is necessary to disabuse people of their incorrect beliefs.

Good points all around. I have no clue how to quote each section though...

[The Trendy Wolf]

Good points all around. I have no clue how to quote each section though...

Conflict between forces is necessary for life. If there was only one side to every argument, then how would anything ever change, innovate, and how would we be able to consider new ideas? We would have no way to have any other experience other than that of every other human on Earth. Our minds persist in an eternal struggle between life and death. Evil villains and superheros depend on each other to fulfill their natural dependence of belonging and serving a purpose as humans.

Disagreement is necessary, but war and violence is not the answer.

[Cygnus]

We can't really agree on religion, the point is being accepting and open minded, if all people were we would have a much better world.

[AlexOnToast]

Unfortunately the idea that there will oneday be no more conflict really is'nt realistic. We are humans, and unfortunately conflict is part of the package. I'm a pacifist, a lot of people are......But unfortunately that isnt the case for everyone...

[Lovelife090994]

Unfortunately the idea that there will oneday be no more conflict really is'nt realistic. We are humans, and unfortunately conflict is part of the package. I'm a pacifist, a lot of people are......But unfortunately that isnt the case for everyone...

I have pacifist ideas but I'm too idealistic.

[Sph2015]

A real live Catholic in the flesh here!

Honestly, I think it's a two way street. I'm focusing strictly on the critical Catholics.

Back when our grandparents were our age, protestants and Catholics pretty much hated each other across the board. The quick history lesson, America was essentially founded on protestant values. With a huge increase in immigrants in the late 19th to early 20th centuries, a large number of Catholics made their way to America. So, Catholicism was associated with immigrants. Well, immigrants were viewed in about as positive as a light as they are today. I'd even say they were hated in general.

So, a country of protestants finds itself "invaded" by Catholics? People weren't happy. People got nasty.

Did you know next to African Americans, the KKK likes to target Catholics?

The point is, older Catholics were raised to be on the defensive. That's just how they were brought up.

I can say from personal experience, I've endured a lot of abuse. Abuse from older and younger Protestants alike. Do you know how many times I've been informed I'm going to hell because I'm Catholic? Heck, just look at how Catholicism is viewed on these forums as a whole.

Now, do I hate protestants? Of course not. I try my best not to let a few bad experiences cloud my judgement.

A big part of why Catholics fight back has to do with church history as well. The Catholic church was founded by none other than Jesus himself. So, when people start bashing Catholics, it seems kinda ludicrous. I mean, we were the first haha.

Now, let's not pretend there hasn't been PLENTY of corruption in the church. Some of those splits were definitely warranted.

I guess to summarize, they're are some cranky critical Catholics. I'm sure you don't appreciate their comments. What's the point? They're not going to change your mind, right? It's unnecessary, and I apologize on their behalf. I do ask you to see it from they're point of view though. They may make a few comments, which are totally uncalled for, but I can guarantee that they have endured quite a large amount of abuse in their life, all dished out by protestant Christians. Can you blame them for being a little bitter?

As a 17 year old, white, middle-class male, I have been put through more degrading, hurtful experiences because of my religion, at the hands of fellow Christians, than anyone should ever have to endure. Period. Trust me, it can be worse than some critical comments from an old fuddy duddy.

Side Note: People are put through much worse abuse than I am daily. I certainly have an extremely cushy life. I'm not trying to throw a pity party. The point is, nobody should have to endure any form of just plain abuse.

[Lovelife090994]

A real live Catholic in the flesh here!

Honestly, I think it's a two way street. I'm focusing strictly on the critical Catholics.

Back when our grandparents were our age, protestants and Catholics pretty much hated each other across the board. The quick history lesson, America was essentially founded on protestant values. With a huge increase in immigrants in the late 19th to early 20th centuries, a large number of Catholics made their way to America. So, Catholicism was associated with immigrants. Well, immigrants were viewed in about as positive as a light as they are today. I'd even say they were hated in general.

So, a country of protestants finds itself "invaded" by Catholics? People weren't happy. People got nasty.

Did you know next to African Americans, the KKK likes to target Catholics?

The point is, older Catholics were raised to be on the defensive. That's just how they were brought up.

I can say from personal experience, I've endured a lot of abuse. Abuse from older and younger Protestants alike. Do you know how many times I've been informed I'm going to hell because I'm Catholic? Heck, just look at how Catholicism is viewed on these forums as a whole.

Now, do I hate protestants? Of course not. I try my best not to let a few bad experiences cloud my judgement.

A big part of why Catholics fight back has to do with church history as well. The Catholic church was founded by none other than Jesus himself. So, when people start bashing Catholics, it seems kinda ludicrous. I mean, we were the first haha.

Now, let's not pretend there hasn't been PLENTY of corruption in the church. Some of those splits were definitely warranted.

I guess to summarize, they're are some cranky critical Catholics. I'm sure you don't appreciate their comments. What's the point? They're not going to change your mind, right? It's unnecessary, and I apologize on their behalf. I do ask you to see it from they're point of view though. They may make a few comments, which are totally uncalled for, but I can guarantee that they have endured quite a large amount of abuse in their life, all dished out by protestant Christians. Can you blame them for being a little bitter?

As a 17 year old, white, middle-class male, I have been put through more degrading, hurtful experiences because of my religion, at the hands of fellow Christians, than anyone should ever have to endure. Period. Trust me, it can be worse than some critical comments from an old fuddy duddy.

Side Note: People are put through much worse abuse than I am daily. I certainly have an extremely cushy life. I'm not trying to throw a pity party. The point is, nobody should have to endure any form of just plain abuse.

Thanks. Very logical points. Catholicism was first yet is often hated. Me? I am backslid as a Christian and questioning why I am Protestant, but being African-American, 19, young, middle-classed single-parent home, and then also being closeted and confused I see and hear a lot. I forgive the Christians who have said literal shit to me and I forgive those of other religions who have done the same to me, but I wonder why so many are so defensive.

[hockeyfan]

I'm Catholic and have no problem with Prodestants