School is a Joke

[PerpetualImperfexion]

The idea of elementary school is to prepare you for high school, high school for college, and college for the real world. Honest question though: Why do we need college to prepare us for the real world?

Contrary to common belief, you don't actually need a teacher to learn and understand the material you're trying to learn. With a book or two, a course guide/core requirements list, some initiative, and independent study you can learn anything you want.

My general opinion of college: It's a massive scam, a means of extracting thousands of dollars from people in exchange for a piece of paper. To give you an idea of how useless it is, there are military programs that can get you the equivalent of a 4 year degree, but in a matter of months or weeks. They can't afford to waste the money or time it takes to do it like colleges do it. This is also because their goal is to get people trained and in their field rather than to rob them.

So, if I were supreme ruler of the earth, how would I do it? Elementary/high school would impart good independent studying habits in conjunction with the basics that they already provide. College is optional. The books/course guides would be provided/suggested by the employer. Employers would then give every applicant a test. Their decision to employ would be based off of highschool transcripts (not college), the reviews of teachers/past employers/etc, and first and foremost, the test.

The optional college is going to be much cheaper do to the lower demand and have the goal of a quick, thorough, loosely guided education.

[Bleid]

The idea of elementary school is to prepare you for high school, high school for college, and college for the real world. Honest question though: Why do we need college to prepare us for the real world?

Contrary to common belief, you don't actually need a teacher to learn and understand the material you're trying to learn. With a book or two, a course guide/core requirements list, some initiative, and independent study you can learn anything you want.

My general opinion of college: It's a massive scam, a means of extracting thousands of dollars from people in exchange for a piece of paper. To give you an idea of how useless it is, there are military programs that can get you the equivalent of a 4 year degree, but in a matter of months or weeks. They can't afford to waste the money or time it takes to do it like colleges do it. This is also because their goal is to get people trained and in their field rather than to rob them.

So, if I were supreme ruler of the earth, how would I do it? Elementary/high school would impart good independent studying habits in conjunction with the basics that they already provide. College is optional. The books/course guides would be provided/suggested by the employer. Employers would then give every applicant a test. Their decision to employ would be based off of highschool transcripts (not college), the reviews of teachers/past employers/etc, and first and foremost, the test.

The optional college is going to be much cheaper do to the lower demand and have the goal of a quick, thorough, loosely guided education.

I agree. It would be a very difficult thing to change now that it's already going, though. Even just trying to make college less rigorous as a requirement would very much upset the balance of things.
No one is going to have just spent 4 years of their life in classes to get a job and then willingly accept someone getting their same degree in less than half the time. There would be such a horrendous economic shift if this were attempted in any less than a lifetime of continuous effort. Because it would need to start with the current young people, so that people just now getting their degrees don't feel cheated and go directly against it because of feeling like they have wasted their lives on it. It's certainly a multi-generational feat that would need to be undertaken.

As far as school, though, it's certainly true that college, especially up to a Bachelor's is very unimpressive.

The only thing I would say that would justifiably considered as 'higher education' is the high end of a Bachelor's degree, maybe, graduate-level classes and Ph.D, of course. Those should be the extent of college (ranging more towards the end of that spectrum). Associate's should all be high school, as it usually is, anyway. In general, people just relearn things they already knew most of, once they take the first year into a college from high school, such as derivative calculus/pre-calculus. That should have all been taken care of in the high school days. Obviously those classes could still be offered for people who take a few years off from high school, or for people who decide to take multiple degrees and did not focus on something that they later decide to get into.

Then it should be Bachelor's-level to Master's in first-year college. Second year: Ph.D-level/end-level Master's.

With, of course, all elective-type courses available for those interested, since you might not be able to get all the loose-ends you would have done in high school.

[Stronk Serb]

Yeah, my dad does a lot of web designing and programing, and he learned all that by himself.

[tovaris]

You can finish universety without listening to a single teacher, you yust do the tests and write your diploma and thats it.

[Fallen_Eagle]

my dad didn't even go to high school and he makes more money than most people if he's on a good streak (he works in the tv/film bizz.)

[Danny_boi 16]

Education is necessary for human development. The idea of higher education has been altered. The propose, truly, isn't to get a job but to further understand the would around us. Great universities and libraries go hand in hand. And one cannot exist without the other. We must learn in institutions to evolve.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

Education is necessary for human development. The idea of higher education has been altered. The propose, truly, isn't to get a job but to further understand the would around us. Great universities and libraries go hand in hand. And one cannot exist without the other. We must learn in institutions to evolve.

I'll have to disagree. I've learned more about math and computers by myself than I have in school. Education is necessary, but not by an institution or teacher.

[Sph2015]

It really depends on the type of person. For you, what you've described is probably a utopia. However, what about that kid who has no focus or drive? He'd completely fail at teaching himself. He may be brilliant, but without classroom learning it would go to waste. That's just one small argument, but I think it speaks volumes about much more beyond that. While the current system is certainly flawed, the system you described would never succeed.

[Atonement]

I will agree that academic institutions aren't necessarily for everyone. Furthermore, we need to depart from the myth that universities exist so the student will make more money afterwards. Universities, specifically those focused on the liberal arts, are for those who love learning and value academia. If you don't like it, don't do it. If you can learn just as much otherwise and an employer wants that, that's great. However, to abolished universities is to reject the pursuit of knowledge through mutual cooperation with academics, professors, and peers.

What makes high school more valuable than college? Do you think those skills are more important? Why go off of those scores instead of collegiate scores? If an employer is issuing a test, what about people who are bad at tests? Would people who went to college do better because they have more experience taking tests?

[Danny_boi 16]

I'll have to disagree. I've learned more about math and computers by myself than I have in school. Education is necessary, but not by an institution or teacher.

I have to disagree, as well. Its great that you have learned abut math and computers by "yourself". But you'll never, truly, be able to apply those skills into the world around you. It takes the experience of someone older than you to show you the way. The point isn't knowledge its wisdom.

[Wesl3y]

I have to say, I've never heard anybody describe school as a joke, other than people who most likely won't amount to anything in the future. We have college for people to earn degrees in fields they plan to pursue. If it weren't for these degrees we would have fake unprepared doctors, teachers, pharmacists. We wouldn't have engineers to design infrastructure for an ever increasing world population. As far as the military goes, they front most of the bill of peoples education. Those who are schooling through the military also receive a greater work load than most other college students, it all comes down to their discipline and willingness to learn. The problem with employers giving tests to receive a job primarily is the ability for test takers to become familiar with the test materiel. Also all the materiel for a person to "study" for each individual employment opportunity would make finding jobs considerably more difficult and confusing, not to mention the costs for employers. The education system in America is designed to reach out to every person so that they may have the opportunity to attain an education. With everybody attaining a high school education, employers are looking for people who have pushed to further educate themselves, but also the specific job skills that would better suit them for the job. Even if people took tests to receive a job, those with college educations would still appeal to employers because they have shown they can stick with something, so employers wouldn't mind the extra training compared to an individual who scored highly but has no other background than a high school transcript.

[Lovelife090994]

I have never heard too many people call school a joke other than those who detested it or never showed their worth or interest. However I shall answer since I hold some thoughts on the subject at draw. As a student who plans to go to college for a degree which is the only way for a decent paying job, and as a child of a teacher I agree that school can be flawed. Some do better in school with a large class and some do better on a one-on-one setting. Some do best learning on their own with the aid of books, tapes, CDs, etc. And some like me, are a bit of all and also visual learners who may be able to pick things up on their own.

I see the argument, school is not always needed to be educated. One can learn alone but not necessarily alone, he or she must have the motivation, discipline, and tools to do so which for most comes from a school of some sort. Now true, college tuition and the cost to live on campus is astronomically high to the point that only those who are near wealthy, and of married parents with double-incomes can go to college. I have to wait a year due to lack of money for a car, and costs of classes since my mother is single, a teacher, and although very educated is not paid as one would expect given her degrees. Even she tells me that she regrets the debt she amounted from college. College is a good place for some and not for others. For me, despite my talents I need a degree since my talents would not allow for a job with a good enough pay for even a decent life without me struggling. When I say decent, I mean, basics, roof, car, food, minor and major housekeeping and supplies. Education is so varied place to place and person to person and without it in most places you won't go much farther than odd-jobs or job-to-job and paycheck-to-paycheck.

You seem to forget that one needs skill and wisdom and that education gives you the skills to use your knowledge in an apporpriate and most efficacious way that can bring about wisdom from experience. Learning alone is an achievement but you must have experience and skills to show your worth in the workplace.

[Typhlosion]

Already posted my opinion on dropping out and college HERE (Warning, it's quite lengthy) (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2622336#post2622336)

If you're just lazy, here are my answers.

The idea of elementary school is to prepare you for high school, high school for college, and college for the real world. Honest question though: Why do we need college to prepare us for the real world?

Contrary to common belief, you don't actually need a teacher to learn and understand the material you're trying to learn. With a book or two, a course guide/core requirements list, some initiative, and independent study you can learn anything you want. Unfortunately, not everybody in the world can self-teach. They really need someone to point out what they're supposed to do. Or, someone might even have the skills to learn by themselves, but do not know which direction they should/might follow.

My general opinion of college: It's a massive scam, a means of extracting thousands of dollars from people in exchange for a piece of paper. To give you an idea of how useless it is, there are military programs that can get you the equivalent of a 4 year degree, but in a matter of months or weeks. They can't afford to waste the money or time it takes to do it like colleges do it. This is also because their goal is to get people trained and in their field rather than to rob them. At least call it a certificate, not just a piece of paper. It's a way of certifying that you (might) have the skills to do a task and how well you'll do it.

So, if I were supreme ruler of the earth, how would I do it? Elementary/high school would impart good independent studying habits in conjunction with the basics that they already provide. College is optional. The books/course guides would be provided/suggested by the employer. Employers would then give every applicant a test. Their decision to employ would be based off of highschool transcripts (not college), the reviews of teachers/past employers/etc, and first and foremost, the test. Not bad, but every job having a test is much too time consuming. Standardization of the tests would be awkward and overall the test/suggestion/transcript thing would be hard and costly to enforce. College is optional, isn't it? If a corporation demands a degree, shouldn't we let them?

The optional college is going to be much cheaper do to the lower demand and have the goal of a quick, thorough, loosely guided education. College is optional, unless I'm missing something.

[Melodic]

I agree with some of this, others I don't.

I honestly find the school system quite stupid in many ways, that I can agree with. In life before college, they only teach us the most pointless things that most people go through their whole life not needing and leave the important things we need to succeed out of it. Then you have to pay a bunch of money or having top spot perfect grades to learn what you actually want to and get where you want to.

Now onto your statement about self learning, it could be very possible to do so for some. But for people like me, I went into homeschooling because I needed one on one attention, which my school wasn't willing to give me unless I went into Special Ed. And it wouldn't be that bad, but I would have been separated from my music chances and my friends which was the reasons I was staying in the first place.

So I think the whole problem with the schools is that they think of us all as one which means we can all learn together and we all will go in the same approach. But in reality, we are all different and we all have different approaches where we want to go and what we want to learn and how we want to learn.