Obama finishes year with record low poll numbers.

[Walter Powers]

It has not been a good year politically for President Obama, and the polls continue to prove it.

A new CNN-ORC International poll finds his approval rating tied for a record low at 41%, the same as it was in November. Meanwhile, 56% disapprove of how he is handling his job as president. That's a massive, 27-point swing over the course of the year. In January, a CNN-ORC International poll had his approval at 55%, while just 43% disapproved.
Even younger voters have soured on the president. Half of 18-34-year-olds disapprove of Obama's job performance, while just 45% approve.

Amongst Independents, it's even worse — twice as many (64%) disapprove.

The president has dealt with a number of controversies this year, including an IRS scandal, the revelation of the some of the National Security Agency's controversial surveillance tactics, and the debate over military action in Syria. More recently, the catastrophic launch of the federal exchange website and the failed Obamacare promise, "If you like your plan, you can keep it," have dominated the news.

America is finally waking up to what this man is doing.

[AgentHomo]

He's a lot better President than the one previous, that's for sure.

[Walter Powers]

He's a lot better President than the one previous, that's for sure.

Really? Your honestly attempting to make that argument? HA! Obama's bar is perhaps the lowest in modern history!

In Bush's eight years in office, he added $4.4 T to the national debt. In just Obama's first four, he added much more then that. That's by far the most important issue, and Obama sucks at it.

Not to mention the fact he's ruining our healthcare system, or all of the scandals his administration has been involved in.

[AgentHomo]

In terms of Presidents in general, Obama is not the best. But he is better than Bush, and much better than McCain or Romney would ever be.

Also, just remember, Obama came in after Bush fucked up this country. The dominoes began to fall long before Bush left office, and so Obama was basically handed a country in turmoil and people are blaming him for the mess. I blame him for not fixing it, but I blame Bush for starting the mess in the first place.

[lijrobert]

Really? Your honestly attempting to make that argument? HA! Obama's bar is perhaps the lowest in modern history!

In Bush's eight years in office, he added $4.4 T to the national debt. In just Obama's first four, he added much more then that. That's by far the most important issue, and Obama sucks at it.

Not to mention the fact he's ruining our healthcare system, or all of the scandals his administration has been involved in.

Wow, I never thought I'd agree with you on anything. Other democrats idolize Obama way too much. Bush wasn't an angel but neither is Obama. He even managed to mess up what was supposed to be his premier legislation. Wasn't he gonna close Guantanamo Bay? Still looks open to me. And look how he's handled drones. Obama, when even democrats don't like you, you have some serious problems.

That said. I didn't like Bush at all. In my opinion he was pretty bad. Like I said, Obama isn't doing much better

[AgentHomo]

Really? Your honestly attempting to make that argument? HA! Obama's bar is perhaps the lowest in modern history!

In Bush's eight years in office, he added $4.4 T to the national debt. In just Obama's first four, he added much more then that. That's by far the most important issue, and Obama sucks at it.

Not to mention the fact he's ruining our healthcare system, or all of the scandals his administration has been involved in.

Wow, I never thought I'd agree with you on anything. Other democrats idolize Obama way too much. Bush wasn't an angel but neither is Obama. He even managed to mess up what was supposed to be his premier legislation. Wasn't he gonna close Guantanamo Bay? Still looks open to me. And look how he's handled drones. Obama, when even democrats don't like you, you have some serious problems.

As a bleeding heart liberal, I do agree Obama didn't do so great, but he was a much better choice than the other two options. Fuck, if Romney had his way he would repeal same sex marriage laws in the states that already have them. The only good thing Obama did in my opinion was repeal DOMA. Other than that, he didn't deliver his promises. But we have another three years so let's see how he handles himself with the time he has left.

[lijrobert]

As a bleeding heart liberal, I do agree Obama didn't do so great, but he was a much better choice than the other two options. Fuck, if Romney had his way he would repeal same sex marriage laws in the states that already have them. The only good thing Obama did in my opinion was repeal DOMA. Other than that, he didn't deliver his promises. But we have another three years so let's see how he handles himself with the time he has left.

Cheers to that!

[thatcountrykid]

Bush had his flaws but at least he lived America and thats more than we can say for Obama

[ksdnfkfr]

Not to mention the fact he's ruining our healthcare system, or all of the scandals his administration has been involved in.

He def ruined my aunt's health insurance.


That said. I didn't like Bush at all. In my opinion he was pretty bad. Like I said, Obama isn't doing much better

Both really lousy presidents.

[lijrobert]

Bush had his flaws but at least he lived America and thats more than we can say for Obama

That's a bullshit claim. Obama was born in America. Stick to real facts to fight Obama.

[Hyper]

Citing the national debt as an argument is beyond ridiculous.

The national debt is something that can't be fixed without fixing the entire monetary system

[thatcountrykid]

That's a bullshit claim. Obama was born in America. Stick to real facts to fight Obama.

Just because you born here doesnt mean you love it. Prove to me he loves this country.

[Emerald Dream]

If we want to debate his approval numbers or try to prove whether he loves this country or not...we can do it over here.

VT Daily Chronicle :arrow: Ramblings of The Wise

[satarra3180]

Just because you born here doesnt mean you love it. Prove to me he loves this country.

He deals with ridiculous claims like this everyday and continues to come to work...that's proof enough to to me he is at least committed to this country.

[Jean Poutine]

Time to wake up to the painful reality that all the people will ever elect are incompetent loonies, no matter their chosen ideology.

Honestly, democracy is a farce. I could very well do without if I were assured that a given leader was both competent and would look to the interests of the people.

I make Plato proud.

[Lovelife090994]

I may not agree with all Obama has done but I don't demonize him like some. I neither idolize nor demonize him.

[thatcountrykid]

He deals with ridiculous claims like this everyday and continues to come to work...that's proof enough to to me he is at least committed to this country.

Hes commited to power and self benefit. Not the country

[conniption]

Hes commited to power and self benefit. Not the country

You could say the same thing about every other politician, but there's no doubt he was the lesser of two evils.

[ksdnfkfr]

I heard someone call it the evil of two lessers.

[thatcountrykid]

You could say the same thing about every other politician, but there's no doubt he was the lesser of two evils.

I wouldnt say that

[Southside]

Really? Your honestly attempting to make that argument? HA! Obama's bar is perhaps the lowest in modern history!

In Bush's eight years in office, he added $4.4 T to the national debt. In just Obama's first four, he added much more then that. That's by far the most important issue, and Obama sucks at it.

Not to mention the fact he's ruining our healthcare system, or all of the scandals his administration has been involved in.

Give Obama his props on 3 things:

Bailing out Detroit(Which Republican Mitt Romney opposed)

Getting the fuck out of Iraq

ATTEMPTING to close Gitmo(Your Republican friends in Congress blocked that bill)

Why cant we just have a universal healthcare system, Conservatives always shoot it down because it sounds "socialist" but in fact some of the top ranked healthcare systems in the world(Such as France) are universal.

[Walter Powers]

I didn't expect this to turn into a debate thread, but whatever. I love this topic :)

Wow, I never thought I'd agree with you on anything. Other democrats idolize Obama way too much. Bush wasn't an angel but neither is Obama. He even managed to mess up what was supposed to be his premier legislation. Wasn't he gonna close Guantanamo Bay? Still looks open to me. And look how he's handled drones. Obama, when even democrats don't like you, you have some serious problems.

That said. I didn't like Bush at all. In my opinion he was pretty bad. Like I said, Obama isn't doing much better

Glad we can agree on something :)

In terms of Presidents in general, Obama is not the best. But he is better than Bush, and much better than McCain or Romney would ever be.

Okay how in the world can you know what McCain or Romney would be like as President? If we're judging strictly by their party's performance, they wouldn't have increased the nation's debt anywhere near as much as this man, decreased the number people dependent on government, not increased it, and would never in a million years try to take people's healthcare coverage from them.

Also, just remember, Obama came in after Bush fucked up this country. The dominoes began to fall long before Bush left office, and so Obama was basically handed a country in turmoil and people are blaming him for the mess. I blame him for not fixing it, but I blame Bush for starting the mess in the first place.

Dude, i'm not an expert on it, and I'm sure you aren't either, but the financial collapse could've happened on anybody's watch. To pin it on one man is crazy. Keep in mind that at the time leading up to this thhe Democratic party had significant sway in Congress, and they foresaw it no more then the Bush's adminstration.

I'm glad you agree that Obama shares some blame for the slow recovery, but I'll ask you this: Following the economic downturn in the early eighties under the Carter administration (Democrats) , Reagan (a Republican) was able to turn a recession into a boom in not much longer then a year. And here we are, five years after a recession hit, and we're just beginning to see an uptick in the economic numbers. If the Republican economic ideal is so terrible, why is it taking Obama so long to make a dent whilst Reagan had things booming soon after taking office?

Just because you born here doesnt mean you love it. Prove to me he loves this country.

Okay, Countrykid, don't take it personally, but I'm going to say it as it is: Don't attack your opponents intentions, patriotism, etc. That kind of thing is reserved for the progressives and liberals because it's the only real ammunition they have. We can win with the facts, so use them! Logic and data trump personal attacks!

I heard someone call it the evil of two lessers.

Do you mean the lesser of two evils?
The other evil being..who? Romney? McCain?

[ksdnfkfr]

Do you mean the lesser of two evils?
The other evil being..who? Romney? McCain?

No it is a wordplay joke about most if not all candidates.
The evil of having to pick one of two lesser men then one would want.
Like both fall short of the ideal mark.
I can't remember where I read or heard it.

[Walter Powers]

Give Obama his props on 3 things:

Let's take these one by one.

Bailing out Detroit(Which Republican Mitt Romney opposed)

Why should we reward executives for mismanaging a company? If it's too big to fail, then those companies are monopolies and should have been broken up. Besides, whether good or not, this is a very small issue and a distraction from the big picture. It's an issue of maybe tens of billions of dollars, right? Obama has increased the nation debt by many hundreds of times that amount.

Getting the fuck out of Iraq

Again, somehow even after ending these wars he's managed to rack up more debt by far then any president in history. How does that happen?

ATTEMPTING to close Gitmo(Your Republican friends in Congress blocked that bill)

This is just pathetic. PATHETIC! If this is the third best thing you can come up with he's done and he hasn't even done it, it should tell you something. How the hell could the GOP block a bill to close it? Please, I'd like to know. Obama had a political trifecta his first two years in office; Democrats dominated both houses. For this same reason, he has no excuse not to have action on immigration, the budget and scores of other issues.

I think as President Obama might have realized how useful Guantanamo is in fighting terrorism, so he decided to abandon his promise to close it.

Why cant we just have a universal healthcare system, Conservatives always shoot it down because it sounds "socialist" but in fact some of the top ranked healthcare systems in the world(Such as France) are universal.

Maybe because if a halfway universal system like ObamaCare is such a disaster, we know it'd be crazy to go all the way. Maybe some of us don't want to have to wait for six months to see a doctor. Also, it'd give the Canadians nowhere to go to escape their socialized system :p

[Southside]

Let's take these one by one.



Why should we reward executives for mismanaging a company? If it's too big to fail, then those companies are monopolies and should have been broken up. Besides, whether good or not, this is a very small issue and a distraction from the big picture. It's an issue of maybe tens of billions of dollars, right? Obama has increased the nation debt by many hundreds of times that amount.



Again, somehow even after ending these wars he's managed to rack up more debt by far then any president in history. How does that happen?



This is just pathetic. PATHETIC! If this is the third best thing you can come up with he's done and he hasn't even done it, it should tell you something. How the hell could the GOP block a bill to close it? Please, I'd like to know. Obama had a political trifecta his first two years in office; Democrats dominated both houses. For this same reason, he has no excuse not to have action on immigration, the budget and scores of other issues.

I think as President Obama might have realized how useful Guantanamo is in fighting terrorism, so he decided to abandon his promise to close it.



Maybe because if a halfway universal system like ObamaCare is such a disaster, we know it'd be crazy to go all the way. Maybe some of us don't want to have to wait for six months to see a doctor. Also, it'd give the Canadians nowhere to go to escape their socialized system :p

How is number 3 pathetic? He proposed the bill in his 2nd term, not his first if im not mistaken.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/14/guantanamo-bay-close_n_3438347.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/8/congress-deals-death-blow-gitmo-closure/?page=all


About the auto industry....You rather thousands of people lose their jobs just because the CEOs are " mismanaging a company"? This is exactly why Romney lost in 2012..I believe if he had supported the auto bailout he would have won Ohio & Michigan..Not to mention that 47% bullshit:lol:

Plus the debt crisis can not just be blamed on Obama. I blame Congress(Both Dems and Republicans), PAST ADMISTRATIONS, massive military budget, massive black budget for surveillance, and I think welfare needs to be reformed too.

The debt ceiling needs to be eliminated also.

[Stronk Serb]

He was the lesser of two evils. I would rather have him, an intelligent and smart man representing me then Romney, Sarah Palin, McCain, Bush...

[Vlerchan]

Note: I still think Obama is a conservative tool but I'd rather him than Romney.

Dude, i'm not an expert on it, and I'm sure you aren't either, but the financial collapse could've happened on anybody's watch.I'm not an expert either but I know enough about global economics to tell you that the financial crash was easily avoidable had Bush - who's much worse than Obama from an outsiders perspective - had simply regulated the banks properly. The actual financial crash stems largely from reckless sub-prime lending at the hands of the banks, the subsequent creation of various bubbles (notably the property one), and their subsequent explosion. So, I'm afraid it couldn't have happened on anybody's watch because I can assure you right now: if anybody (in government) had been watching - or listening to the warnings - it never would have happened.

Also: I'm not saying that a Democratic Congress shouldn't share some of the blame here though Bush was the man who's job was to address it.

Okay how in the world can you know what McCain or Romney would be like as President?[1] If we're judging strictly by their party's performance, they wouldn't have increased the nation's debt anywhere near as much as this man, decreased the number people dependent on government[2], not increased it, and would never in a million years try to take people's healthcare coverage from them[3].[1]: I'm going off the plan that Paul Ryan published back when he was going for VP in 2012 (?) and that was some pretty crazy shit right there.

[2]: Making people completely income-less not only doesn't create jobs but it further damages consumption and future levels of growth.

[3]: I assume you've gathered evidence that proves that Obama, in all his great malice, tried to take away people's health insurance?

Though, I'll agree that ObamaCare wasn't exactly great and the universal healthcare system which I constantly advocate here would have worked much better.

I think as President Obama might have realized how useful Guantanamo is in fighting terrorism, so he decided to abandon his promise to close it.
Don't even get me started here.

Following the economic downturn in the early eighties under the Carter administration (Democrats)It was set in motion in the late 60s under Johnson (Democrat) and started in the early 70s under Nixon (Republican) but anyway ...

Reagan (a Republican) was able to turn a recession into a boom in not much longer then a year.Saint Ronnie also managed to quadruple debt levels in his two terms though Conservatives like to forget about that, don't they?

But lets see to what my favourite an-cap had to say about Reagan, though. (http://mises.org/daily/1544)

If the Republican economic ideal is so terrible, why is it taking Obama so long to make a dent whilst Reagan had things booming soon after taking office?Reagan had to deal with a national recession whilst Obama had to deal with a global one - this ill-effect was only compounded by the fact that Obama's America is a lot more committed to international trade than Reagan's was. Whilst in Reagan's time it only took improving American's economic standing to bring about full recovery that's not the case in Obama's time. In Obama's time it needs economic recovery on a global scale which is only occurring now, five years later.

Maybe some of us don't want to have to wait for six months to see a doctor. Also, it'd give the Canadians nowhere to go to escape their socialized system :p
We've had this discussion before. Actually, it was only a few weeks ago. I'll repeat it again here: it's entirely possible for both a private health system and public health system to exist together.

Why should we reward executives for mismanaging a company?You don't. The executives who mismanage their companies should be forced to resign without compensation (pension; lump sum; etc.) on receiving a bailout.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

I, for one, only slightly disagree with him, but only because of Obamacare.
By the way, Bush was fucking terrible as a president (America is fucking blind STILL) He caused war and advocated a failing economic system, like 95% of Americans do. He also ruined the economy with stupid policies (Obama actually does LESS OF THIS than he did.) So, yes, America is nevertheless STILL full of blind assholes.

[Cpt_Cutter]

Really? Your honestly attempting to make that argument? HA! Obama's bar is perhaps the lowest in modern history!

In Bush's eight years in office, he added $4.4 T to the national debt. In just Obama's first four, he added much more then that. That's by far the most important issue, and Obama sucks at it.

Not to mention the fact he's ruining our healthcare system, or all of the scandals his administration has been involved in.

Bush not only started the Iraq war, but failed to end it when it went pear shaped. That's worse than anything Obama has done. I seem to also remember a scandal involving bush that mentioned something about Arabian WMD's, did you hear about that?

Plus, IMO id really doesn't matter at all what the public opinions of him are 'cos he cant run for re-election anyway. Short of doing something very, very bad, he wont get impeached or anything.

[tovaris]

Really? Your honestly attempting to make that argument? HA! Obama's bar is perhaps the lowest in modern history!

In Bush's eight years in office, he added $4.4 T to the national debt. In just Obama's first four, he added much more then that. That's by far the most important issue, and Obama sucks at it.

Not to mention the fact he's ruining our healthcare system, or all of the scandals his administration has been involved in.

Yust out of cureosety how much did president of the united states Barak Hosein Obama ad to your enormous national debt? In numpers and GDP percentage?

[HUSTLEMAN]

In terms of Presidents in general, Obama is not the best. But he is better than Bush, and much better than McCain or Romney would ever be.

Also, just remember, Obama came in after Bush fucked up this country. The dominoes began to fall long before Bush left office, and so Obama was basically handed a country in turmoil and people are blaming him for the mess. I blame him for not fixing it, but I blame Bush for starting the mess in the first place.

THIS!!!!! I will defend Obama in saying that he has tried and you cannot deny it but I feel that he could've done more. He could've done more with ending the shutdown, he could've done more with specifying what Obama Care would do to our healthcare system, and he could've done a lot more with Syria. I have high hopes for Obama as he is representing the best of my race even through all of the crap he's been going through these past 5 years going financial crisis to financial crisis but what he needs to do above everything is to get assertive. To save the credibility of his presidency he needs to be THE President and lead his country like it was fighting for its life. Bush fucked up big time by not leading his country Obama is not the best and he's not the worst, he needs to LEAD