Death

[Nellerin]

I've sort of made up my mind regarding death and what it is but I'm interested in hearing what you guys/girls have to say about the topic.

In my opinion, I feel that the Tibetan Book Of The Dead and to some extent, its translation by Tim Leary in The Psychedelic Experience, are the best way to understand what death is.

Karma is everything and the actions in your life determine "your" rebirth in another life. Though, living a good life and navigating death allows "you" to choose what you will incarnate as.

Now, I do not feel that this is some "ego" or "self" or "individual" passing between lives. Instead, at a fundamental level, we are everyone and everything however we can only experience things one at a time. Although, empathy transcends this and at its highest level, allows us to experience multiple lives (in some ways) at the same time by realizing that we are all truly one.

So, instead of thinking that death brings heaven/hell or nothingness, that is what I think.

What do you guys think?

[conniption]

I'd like to say that there's a lot to say about death, but there's really not. I mean, your body shuts down and you're no longer alive. Death is clean cut and simple.

The ideas that one is reincarnated or is sentenced to an eternal (after) life of pain/happiness have always seemed unbelievable to me. Of course, no one ever truly knows what death is like, until they experience it themselves.

[RunnerRunner]

Well me being an athiest, i domt believe about life after death actually. I think death is well just the final chapter of the book.

[Jean Poutine]

I am scared shitless of death. I hate going to sleep because I have an irrational phobia of dying in my sleep - if I stay awake and pop into cardiac arrest or something I can at least recognize it and call 911. But if I die in my sleep there isn't much about it that I can do. That's why I've always had a lot of trouble falling asleep.

I'm terrified of getting cancer or any other mortal illness. The idea that there is nothing after I pass away really grinds my gears. I often end up thinking "surely this can't be the end" and try conceiving what it would be like to be dead. What it would feel like, even.

I wonder if I'll ever get to taste life again, and how it would feel for my consciousness to wake up in a totally different body, at a different place, at a different time. Perhaps it's the shock of that ordeal that makes it so we can't remember? I imagine dying tomorrow and rebirthing the day after and struggling to remember once I've got the cognitive processes to undertake such a thing. It's hard to envision my memory wiped completely clean, being unable to recall the time I've spent as me. Of course, I wouldn't know how to try and jog my memory, it's a blank slate, after all.

There are days where I find it difficult to even believe I'm in my body. What is its relationship to me? Does the driver bail out when it's no longer useful or do I form a single, complete, coherent unit? I mean if the driver leaves, I wonder what's out there? And if I am a single unit, how does it feel to be nothing? I wake up and feel myself as nothing more than a tool, like a pencil or a knife, and I often have the same relationship to my body - useful, but ultimately foreign.

Death is one of these things we will never know the secrets of until we experience it for ourselves. I hate not knowing things. The unexpected sucks, and you talk of empathy. I never could put myself in another's shoes, the wiring of my brain won't permit it. Every day, I ask myself how others feel, and most days, people in real life are as disconnected from me than people I see on TV. Right now I'm wiggling one finger in a repetitive movement. After a few repetitions, it feels different. Kind of like looking at yourself too long in the mirror or saying your name too much. You keep looking, and you don't feel like it's yourself anymore after some time, and you hear it, but it starts sounding just a random string of phonemes that you happen to answer to. It feels like your senses get disconnected from you. It creeps me out. And observing other people feel the same sometimes - like I'm just watching TV from behind my eyes.

I don't know if my body is just a tool for what I really am, or if I am my body. The thing is, I hope I never have to know, but don't we all get to?

[ksdnfkfr]

The real idea behind this is that you conduct your actual life
based on how it is supposed to effect your afterlife.
If you are not good now you will be punished later. Or
if you are good now you will be rewarded after.
It is a good method of control.

[Hollywood]

You don't exist, and then you're born. Then you die, and you cease to exist. That's pretty much how I look at it.

Our short time of existance is why it's important to make an impact during that time. I don't think about death, I just think about what I can accomplish here before I'm gone forever. The clock is ticking...

[the_dude69]

I respect everyone's input on this. I personally believe. I am living in a big hallucination. And ill explain why.
1. When scientist's are examining an atom. When looking at the atom as a particle. You see it as a particle. But if you look at it as a wave it becomes a wave. Which means life is just ones perception. We can both look at a yellow index card. You may think it's an off yellow while I think its more a cream yellow. Neither of them are wrong.

2. The chemical know as dymethaltryptamine (DMT) is the chemical released in very small doses which make you dream. This release of DMT happens on two occasions in large amounts. When you are born and when you die. I'm sure that you have had a dream that was so real you woke up and couldnt decifer fact from fiction. Our dreams might be when we are actually in a real world. Ive never met anyone who had a dream of falling (youve had one) that hit the ground. You seem to always survive. The form my mind has taken on in this life ends. The hallucination doesnt.

[The Trendy Wolf]

Karma is everything and the actions in your life determine "your" rebirth in another life. Though, living a good life and navigating death allows "you" to choose what you will incarnate as.

Now, I do not feel that this is some "ego" or "self" or "individual" passing between lives. Instead, at a fundamental level, we are everyone and everything however we can only experience things one at a time. Although, empathy transcends this and at its highest level, allows us to experience multiple lives (in some ways) at the same time by realizing that we are all truly one.

So, instead of thinking that death brings heaven/hell or nothingness, that is what I think.

What do you guys think?

I believe that the only reason that people believe in 'karma' is merely because they wish to think that people get what they deserve, which unfortunately is not true. People, if confronted with a problem, think that if they make a good decision then they will be better off, but this is only true to a certain degree. People do not always get what they deserve, and it is a crippling thought to know this, but it is true. We are vulnerable beings; no matter our choices or well-being or good nature we always are vulnerable, and people often elude to this when certain events occur when good people have bad things happen to them. However, when 'bad' things happen to 'bad' people, or vice-versa, then people associate the person's life decisions to their ultimate outcome, and they use that as a way of encouraging themselves to do 'good' things. This is, however, a good way of living our own lives, yet it is not necessarily truthful in all aspects.

The "good life" is simply not a state of being, and in order to enjoy the "good life", then we must be able to do the following:


Be fully open to experience
Live in the present moment, and not resonate on past or potential future events
Trust ourselves
Take responsibility for our choices
Treat others, as well as ourselves, with "unconditional positive regards"


I do not believe that there is an overall 'good' outcome from our good deeds that we receive following our death, but our choices in life will affect others and the future of our species and the universe. Our choices are important to enjoying our own lives while we are physically living and breathing, and it helps the people around us as well. Perhaps there is no true outcome from these decisions, but it helps us enjoy what we have in the short time that we receive to enjoy it. What some people do not see is that our entire lives impact what others may make of themselves, and their perception of our lives are what shape them, along with the currently living people that surround them.

I would like to conclude this with a few quotes from the renowned psychologist, Carl Rogers:

"What I will be in the next moment, and what I will do, grows out of the moment, and cannot be predicted."

"Self and personality emerge from experience, rather than experience being translated... to fit preconceived self-structure."

"The subjective human being has an important value... that no matter how he may be labeled and evaluated he is a human person first of all."

"The process of the good life...means launching oneself fully into the stream of life."

[Sugaree]

I've sort of made up my mind regarding death and what it is but I'm interested in hearing what you guys/girls have to say about the topic.

In my opinion, I feel that the Tibetan Book Of The Dead and to some extent, its translation by Tim Leary in The Psychedelic Experience, are the best way to understand what death is.

Karma is everything and the actions in your life determine "your" rebirth in another life. Though, living a good life and navigating death allows "you" to choose what you will incarnate as.

Now, I do not feel that this is some "ego" or "self" or "individual" passing between lives. Instead, at a fundamental level, we are everyone and everything however we can only experience things one at a time. Although, empathy transcends this and at its highest level, allows us to experience multiple lives (in some ways) at the same time by realizing that we are all truly one.

So, instead of thinking that death brings heaven/hell or nothingness, that is what I think.

What do you guys think?

That's similar to what I believe as a Buddhist. I'm a believer in reincarnation, but I only believe it happens when there are still life lessons to be learned. Once you learn all lessons that life has to teach, then your being ceases to exist. Your essence, what makes you YOU basically, does not die when your physical being dies; instead, it passes itself into another physical being to learn another lesson.

Heaven and Hell are, I feel, what we experience on Earth in our daily lives. When we are happy or joyful, we experience the joys of Heaven; when we are in our darkest pits of depression and anger, we experience the inner most circles of Hell.

I believe that the only reason that people believe in 'karma' is merely because they wish to think that people get what they deserve, which unfortunately is not true.

A good observation, but I have to say that I feel differently. You see, I partially believe in karma, not because I believe people get what they deserve, but because I believe all things go in a circle. In life, no one deserves anything but the simple respect we each must give each other as human beings, so your theory that people only believe in karma for the purpose of getting what they deserve is wrong.

The reason I partially believe in karma is because of that respect I mentioned earlier that we all must pay to our fellow human beings. If we do not pay this simple respect to our fellow human beings, we can not expect anything in return. This is a basic principle, not just of karma, but for life as a whole.

[The Trendy Wolf]

A good observation, but I have to say that I feel differently. You see, I partially believe in karma, not because I believe people get what they deserve, but because I believe all things go in a circle. In life, no one deserves anything but the simple respect we each must give each other as human beings, so your theory that people only believe in karma for the purpose of getting what they deserve is wrong.

The reason I partially believe in karma is because of that respect I mentioned earlier that we all must pay to our fellow human beings. If we do not pay this simple respect to our fellow human beings, we can not expect anything in return. This is a basic principle, not just of karma, but for life as a whole.

You stated what I mentioned later in my post, which is that the belief in karma may potentially provide a good outlook on life. I was referring to the fact that it will give people a reason to treat others with kindness, yet I was mainly saying that just because you do good things doesn't mean that you'll be rewarded.

[Sugaree]

I was mainly saying that just because you do good things doesn't mean that you'll be rewarded.

That's true, but if you only do good things for the sake of being rewarded, you are doing them for the wrong reason. Karma is not about looking forward to the reward, but rather spreading the reward to others.

[johndoe1112]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR8xPC4NEro

love this man

[Achillea]

My understanding of death is that slowly things go black and you reflect on your life before accepting your place in the afterlife : Hell, purgatory ( I imagine this to be rebirth as an animal or human on Earth), or Heaven. Hell would be for those who committed a sin and haven't seen that it was wrobg, even after death. Heaven would be losing the weight of your body and worldly possesions and gaining true clarity and becoming enlightened. You would find true happiness and you wouldn't feel anything but positivity. Death, just the word would make me tear up and block my ears until I realised that it happens to everyone at some stage and has happened since the very first organism died, but still we as humans feel a need to grip onto life with every ounce. My view of this is based on Christianity but looking back at it, it is very similar to my understanding of other religions.:)

[darthearth]

We are obviously non-physical beings at root because mere physical systems cannot reasonably be phenomenally aware in and of themselves. Therefore, there is no good reason to think that we cease to exist at death (as it concerns only the physical system we perceive through). I believe there is ample evidence of an extensive life review by an intelligent angel of the Creator and a subsequent judgement (many people have experienced this review who have died and have subsequently been resuscitated, the DMT/carbon dioxide excuse for this is a wholly inadequate materialist response - they try really hard not to acknowledge/accept the obvious non-physicality at our root or the obvious supernatural nature of the experience).

I believe after the judgement, those who had faith in God and accepted Christ as their personal Savior are deemed worthy to continue into other interesting worlds (Heaven and other positive places), while others (atheists and such) may languish in non-ideal places until possibly they become repentant and saved by Christ (or the worst of them may just go to Hell and cease to exist from there). In the end the fate of everyone lies with our Creator, we can do and be nothing without the Father in Heaven.

[Synyster Shadows]

I have a cynical view of all of this. While I'd absolutely love to believe in an afterlife, believe that this isn't the end, I just can't. I know there's no way to know if there isn't one, but there's also no way to know if there is one. Yep, I'm a glass half-empty type of person, but don't get me wrong - it'd be great if there is one. But at this point, I probably wouldn't be allowed into the heaven... :P

[darthearth]

I have a cynical view of all of this. While I'd absolutely love to believe in an afterlife, believe that this isn't the end, I just can't. I know there's no way to know if there isn't one, but there's also no way to know if there is one. Yep, I'm a glass half-empty type of person, but don't get me wrong - it'd be great if there is one. But at this point, I probably wouldn't be allowed into the heaven... :P

I would like to learn about atheism from you. Can you please explain why phenomenal awareness does not indicate to you that you are a non-physical being at root? Please explain why a physical system in and of itself possessing phenomenal awareness isn't absurd to you. I would really like to know the atheist thought process. How can particles and forces "see" a blue sky?

[Synyster Shadows]

I would like to learn about atheism from you. Can you please explain why phenomenal awareness does not indicate to you that you are a non-physical being at root? Please explain why a physical system in and of itself possessing phenomenal awareness isn't absurd to you. I would really like to know the atheist thought process. How can particles and forces "see" a blue sky?

Hmm...I never thought about it that way. Now that you mention it, that is somewhat absurd. But really, I'm not sure I understand what this has to do with what happens after death. PM me about this, please, so you can explain your views to me more, because I honestly don't understand what you're saying. You're saying it well, but it's just that the ideas are new to me.

[darthearth]

Hmm...I never thought about it that way. Now that you mention it, that is somewhat absurd. But really, I'm not sure I understand what this has to do with what happens after death. PM me about this, please, so you can explain your views to me more, because I honestly don't understand what you're saying. You're saying it well, but it's just that the ideas are new to me.

I stated above that death only concerns the physical body. If we have a non-physical nature at our root death doesn't affect this. Therefore I see no good reason to think we cease existence after death. This is what it has to do with what happens after death, in short there is no reason I see for the non-physical root of us to not continue afterward. The OP feels this non-physical root is reincarnated, most Christians will say they don't believe in reincarnation, and so on and so forth. If you do a search of my previous posts here on VT (Ramblings of the Wise), they say all that I would be able to PM. I might suggest you try that first. And Thank you :yeah:

[LouBerry]

For me, Death is a transition. I believe in Heaven, so Death is just the final barrier separating me from my God. Once it's passed, true life begins.