Should we boycott the Winter Olympics?

[britishboy]

Should we boycott the Winter Olympics because of a small anti gay policy debate no one has herd of? No it's unfair on the athletes and the enthusiasts.

If your that passionate, take part in the vodka boycott

[Hollywood]

As a hockey fan, i've heard this discussed constantly.

The answer is of course no. A small group of people boycotting a worldwide sports event will make no difference whatsoever. It wouldn't be fair to the athletes who train year-round for this event either. The people who support gay rights boycotting this will be giving the anti-gay people who made this law happen exactly what they want.

[Harry Smith]

Should we boycott the Winter Olympics because of a small anti gay policy debate no one has herd of? No it's unfair on the athletes and the enthusiasts.

If your that passionate, take part in the vodka boycott

I'm sure the racist southern democrats classed the civil rights bill as a small act which no-one heard of. If no-one has heard of it as you claimed how come you've got people like David Cameron, Stephen Fry and others discussing it. Once again Jack it's another generalization which is simply not true and it alarms me...not it sickens me that you claim to support LGBT rights whilst coming out with such uneducated bullshit

The Russian government are simply suppressing the rights of Russian and foreign citizens to have a discussion in Russia about LGBT rights in Russia. That's wrong on many different levels. Police have been abusing gay people and straight people in Russia for simply protesting about the lack of inequality.

You always bash soviet Russia for being oppressive yet you seem to be on your knees for Mr Putin. If you want to talk about unfair talk to the hundreds of thousands of gay Russians who are being denied their fundamental human rights

I support a boycott of an authoritarian, anti-gay Russia

I'll leave you with a quote from Stephen Fry

I am gay. I am a Jew. My mother lost over a dozen of her family to Hitler’s anti-Semitism. Every time in Russia (and it is constantly) a gay teenager is forced into suicide, a lesbian “correctively” raped, gay men and women beaten to death by neo-Nazi thugs while the Russian police stand idly by, the world is diminished and I for one, weep anew at seeing history repeat itself. - See more at: http://www.stephenfry.com/2013/08/07/an-open-letter-to-david-cameron-and-the-ioc/#sthash.DNcGapEt.dpuf

I am here to say that the gay community and gay people here and all around the world have the same rights – to be treated with dignity, with respect, with tolerance, with compassion, with love"

[Sugaree]

I support a boycott of an authoritarian, anti-gay Russian olympics.

Except the Olympics aren't anti-gay. And they aren't Authoritarian. They just happen to be in Russia this year and Russia just happens to have discriminatory laws against gays.

I'll never understand this with so called "progressives" (and yes, this is what you've labeled yourselves as on this forum). You want to be against authoritarianism, yet your response to authoritarianism is even more authoritarianism ("accept me or I'll outlaw your freedoms of speech!"). Maybe you're not that type of progressive, but I certainly haven't seen you dispel those stereotypes.

Again, the Olympics aren't anti-gay. They aren't Authoritarian. That's a bullshit statement and you know it, Harry.

Protesting the Olympics is one thing. I don't really support it, but do whatever you want. You have the freedom to do so. But you're still a minority group, you're not going to get Russia to change its mind anytime soon until you get the majority powers to come down on Russia for its laws. Even then, Russia shouldn't be forced to change its laws simply because a few privileged gay people in America feel that they're being oppressed by Putin. That's all I see in this debate: a bunch of privileged gay people acting like THEY are being personally oppressed by Putin. Yeah, the guy is a scumbag for allowing shit like this to go down in his country. And I do agree, the laws have to be changed. But I don't agree in forcing Russia into changing their laws. THAT is an example of Authoritarianism, Harry.

[Harry Smith]

Except the Olympics aren't anti-gay. And they aren't Authoritarian. They just happen to be in Russia this year and Russia just happens to have discriminatory laws against gays.

I'll never understand this with so called "progressives" (and yes, this is what you've labeled yourselves as on this forum). You want to be against authoritarianism, yet your response to authoritarianism is even more authoritarianism ("accept me or I'll outlaw your freedoms of speech!"). Maybe you're not that type of progressive, but I certainly haven't seen you dispel those stereotypes.

Again, the Olympics aren't anti-gay. They aren't Authoritarian. That's a bullshit statement and you know it, Harry.

Protesting the Olympics is one thing. I don't really support it, but do whatever you want. You have the freedom to do so. But you're still a minority group, you're not going to get Russia to change its mind anytime soon until you get the majority powers to come down on Russia for its laws. Even then, Russia shouldn't be forced to change its laws simply because a few privileged gay people in America feel that they're being oppressed by Putin. That's all I see in this debate: a bunch of privileged gay people acting like THEY are being personally oppressed by Putin. Yeah, the guy is a scumbag for allowing shit like this to go down in his country. And I do agree, the laws have to be changed. But I don't agree in forcing Russia into changing their laws. THAT is an example of Authoritarianism, Harry.

I've never said I'll take away freedom of speech, and Yes I'm a progressive. In regards to the Olympics statement bad wording on my part-never meant the Olympics were anti-gay or authoritarian just the Russian government. There's a difference between the freedom to challenge homosexuality and committing assault on someone whilst the police idly stand by. In regards to Stephen fry who you labelled as being a privileged gay I'd like to point out that he himself as been to Russia and witnessed the ordeal that gay people go through from Neo Nazis, the police and politicians. I'm glad that people of his stature are standing up for the LGBT in Russia because if I published a letter to David Cameron I assure you it would get no media attention

I'm not saying that the international community should go over and force Russia to change their laws, they have a legal right of sovereignty to set their own laws. I'm saying that Britain which has for the last 40 years strived towards improving LGBT rights show that they don't approve of the Draconian laws in place. A boycott would clearly show Russia that Britain and other countries do not approve of the laws which simply strip gays of their human rights.

I'm not saying we should go in at the point of a gun and tell them to change, I'm saying we should organize a boycott and show Russia that we do not approve of these laws rather than doing what people like Jack do and suck up to President Putin. A boycott isn't an authoritarian act, look at it's successful use around the world in the struggle for civil rights

[Tarannosaurus]

If I was an athlete taking part, I'd boycott it. Of course I'm not an athlete and it would probably be unfair to ban athletes from taking part after training so hard. However, carrying on as normal would give the impression that they condone what is happening in Russia. On a smaller scale it is in some ways similar to the beginning of the Holocaust. Anti-gay laws, anti-gay propaganda. People being arrested for having different beliefs. Gay teens captured, humiliated, tortured, murdered. The world can't just stand by and do nothing. There are kids actually being murdered and I think because it's so far away people can ignore it. But what if the same thing was happening in your country. What if one of your friends/ relations were tortured? Boycotting the winter games would show gay people in Russia that people want to help them and free them. Carrying on as normal just shows that no one cares. We don't care about you being tortured, we want our medals. Could someone really be so competitive that they'd be that heartless?
Oh and Jack, since the majority of people here are under the legal drinking age or like me, have no inclination to drink vodka/ any alcohol, us boycotting vodka won't make much difference.

[sqishy]

Should we boycott the Winter Olympics because of a small anti gay policy debate no one has herd of? No it's unfair on the athletes and the enthusiasts.

If your that passionate, take part in the vodka boycott

If LGBT athletes are going to have problems and setbacks in the Olympics because they are LGBT, then I would boycott the Olypmics. But idk if that's going to happen (don't think it'll be that bad a problem), so I wouldn't boycott.

[TheBigUnit]

Nope I won't boycott it, it'll be really unfair to the athletes, besides putin won't give the slightest fuck he might even laugh,
athletes protesting next years Olympics won't mean anything in putins eyes
telling putin that some Western country is upset over his views won't change anything,
If you haven't noticed putin is a really stubborn leader and he has priorities at the moment much greater than providing equality to everyone
The only way putin will change his views is if there's some movement thatll challenge his power, he is Forbes most powerful person in the world ya' know

[Harry Smith]

Nope I won't boycott it, it'll be really unfair to the athletes, besides putin won't give the slightest fuck he might even laugh,
athletes protesting next years Olympics won't mean anything in putins eyes
telling putin that some Western country is upset over his views won't change anything,
If you haven't noticed putin is a really stubborn leader and he has priorities at the moment much greater than providing equality to everyone
The only way putin will change his views is if there's some movement thatll challenge his power, he is Forbes most powerful person in the world ya' know

Then relocate the Olympics, it's as simple as that.

A boycott will show the world and Putin that the international community doesn't approve of this sort of action and that we didn't simply stand aside and let him continue to run his authoritarian abusive regime.

I seem to remember in 1936 we all talked about how Herr Hitler had reformed Germany and how great a leader he was as Jewish Germans were stripped of their rights

[britishboy]

Nope I won't boycott it, it'll be really unfair to the athletes, besides putin won't give the slightest fuck he might even laugh,
athletes protesting next years Olympics won't mean anything in putins eyes
telling putin that some Western country is upset over his views won't change anything,
If you haven't noticed putin is a really stubborn leader and he has priorities at the moment much greater than providing equality to everyone
The only way putin will change his views is if there's some movement thatll challenge his power, he is Forbes most powerful person in the world ya' know

I very much agree, also politics shouldnt be involved in an international sporting event, I look forward to the Winter Olympics and I am sure Putin will be a brilliant host

[TheBigUnit]

Then relocate the Olympics, it's as simple as that.

It takes years upon years planning the olympics and billions of dollars/rubles go into it, so its a bit late stating something that decisive, for example japan has already started construction for the 2020 olympics and Qatar for the 2022 world cup,
Say this much talk went into russias anti gay views like at least 2 years ago, we d have a different story

Not just that putin simply wont give a fuck, he doesnt want others to tell him how to run his country, maybe china could cajole putin, maybe, but good luck with that chinas even worse with human rights

you think hitler cared what chuchill blabbered about him? Though he mightve liked chamberlain

[britishboy]

it's unfair on Russia theyve invested huge amounts of time and effot, its also unfair on us, all for something that will do no difference, Putin dosent get told what to do

[Harry Smith]

I very much agree, also politics shouldnt be involved in an international sporting event, I look forward to the Winter Olympics and I am sure Putin will be a brilliant host

haha as I said before, someone seems to be on his knees for man who rigs elections.

Putin isn't going to be hosting it himself, you won't see him serving drinks or judging the ice skating.

I find it convenient that you've completely skipped over my posts as OP, as a self proclaimed LGBT supported I would be shocked if you supported Mr Putins anti-gay policy. I'd love to hear your direct views on the anti-gay rights laws considering you dismissed them in the title

It takes years upon years planning the olympics and billions of dollars/rubles go into it, so its a bit late stating something that decisive, for example japan has already started construction for the 2020 olympics and Qatar for the 2022 world cup,
Say this much talk went into russias anti gay views like at least 2 years ago, we d have a different story

Not just that putin simply wont give a fuck, he doesnt want others to tell him how to run his country, maybe china could cajole putin, maybe, but good luck with that chinas even worse with human rights

you think hitler cared what chuchill blabbered about him? Though he mightve liked chamberlain

Hitler and Churchill back in '36 aren't related, Churchill spend his whole time painting and writing books then. If Britain had actually stood up to Hitler's policies against the jews, or even allowed more of them aslyum in England then it may of been different.

It's not about forcing Putin to change his laws overnight, it's about showing him that we do not agree with such barbaric anti-gay laws. I want the world to show Putin that we do not agree, or endorse such barbaric laws. I'm sure two years ago opponents would of said 'oh we should of done this two years ago'. Sport doesn't exist in a separate bubble, it's part of our society and culture.

Do you agree with Putin's views on gays?

it's unfair on Russia theyve invested huge amounts of time and effot, its also unfair on us, all for something that will do no difference, Putin dosent get told what to do

You want to talk about unfair- talk to the gay teens being forced to commit suicide, or the lesbians being collectively raped, or the gay activists being beaten up by neo-nazis as the police stand by and do nothing. That's unfair.

I don't care how much Russia has spend, by your theory we shouldn't of invaded Iraq because they spend so much money on the nuclear bomb...

I'm surprsied that despite being called 'Britishboy' you haven't heard of the boycott of South African sport due to their apartheid system. That showed that the world had a united front against racism in south Africa. In the same way I believe that we can present a united front against homophobic laws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_boycott_of_South_Africa_during_the_Apartheid_era

[Dundun99]

i dont think we should but i do think it will be a bit shit and expensive

[TheBigUnit]

Do you agree with Putin's views on gays?

No I do not, I believe youve known me long enough on this site than to ask me that, I just believe its almost impossible to make a man like putin to change his views and protesting the olympics would do almost nothing especially since he has far more important priorities at the moment

[teen.jpg]

it's unfair on Russia theyve invested huge amounts of time and effot, its also unfair on us, all for something that will do no difference, Putin dosent get told what to do

Just let discrimination slide because we can't do anything about it, nice motto there.

[britishboy]

Just let discrimination slide because we can't do anything about it, nice motto there.

Im looking forward to the Olympics, Russia will do it well, its pointless to boycott it, we shouldnt involve politics in it as it is not politically related, also Russia will be playing Olympics with themselves, Putin is never told what to do and if anything he will tighten laws to show he can do whatever he pleases

[Vlerchan]

[...]I just believe its almost impossible to make a man like putin to change his views and protesting the olympics would do almost nothing especially since he has far more important priorities at the moment
A mass boycott would cost the Russian government a lot of money. That's definitely something. Of course, I don't believe that we'll see a mass boycott so it's all just wishful thinking, really. We're too close to the actual date of the Olympics. It's worth trying, but if the idea has gained significant support by this stage then I honestly can't see world governments suddenly jumping in to support it now.

I've always been against the institutionalised oppression of minority groups - and that's exactly what this is; don't accuse me of being melodramatic here. I'm obviously for a boycott.

[britishboy]

I've always been against the institutionalised oppression of minority groups - and that's exactly what this is; don't accuse me of being melodramatic here. I'm obviously for a boycott.

but that is not the Olympics, thats Russian politics, please separate the two

[Emerald Dream]

but that is not the Olympics, thats Russian politics, please separate the two

I see what he is saying here, and about the original "vodka" comment (even though a lot of us can not drink LOL).

The point is that if you want to boycott and protest Russia, then fine. Why boycott the Olympics and the athletes who train for years for this, though?

I can understand wanting to put a dent into what Russia is sure to make off of the tourism from the Olympics. Protesting the Olympics, or at the Olympics...that's kind of pointless as far as Russia is concerned. You're mainly just hurting the image of the Olympics by association.

It's pretty ass-backwards thinking and it really doesn't hurt Russia that much. It only tarnishes the spirit of the Olympics.

[Harry Smith]

Im looking forward to the Olympics, Russia will do it well, its pointless to boycott it, we shouldnt involve politics in it as it is not politically related, also Russia will be playing Olympics with themselves, Putin is never told what to do and if anything he will tighten laws to show he can do whatever he pleases

but that is not the Olympics, thats Russian politics, please separate the two

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_boycott_of_South_Africa_during_the_Apartheid_era

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_boycott_of_South_Africa_during_the_Apartheid_era

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_boycott_of_South_Africa_during_the_Apartheid_era

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_boycott_of_South_Africa_during_the_Apartheid_era

you seem to be ignoring me jack, if you want to have an honest debate be a man and have the courage to actually have a debate rather than your rather repetive rheteroic about loving Russia.

Sport doesn't exist in it's bubble, it's part of our culture and our society. We've boycotted before and we'll do it again. It's not about getting Mr Putin to change over night- it's so that in 20 years the world won't look back and think how the fuck did we let this happen. But I'm sure as Mr Putin VT spokesperson and 'an lgbt' fan you can explain how your supporting a homophobe. We've done it before, and I think we should do it again.

I don't support homophobic laws, do you?

Everything in life is about politics expect politics, that's about power.

[Vlerchan]

but that is not the Olympics, thats Russian politics, please separate the two
Sigh.

For ultimate effect certain LGBT-rights activists want to use a major global sporting event to push the point that institutionalised homophobia isn't acceptable. It's not about merging the two [Politics and Sport]. It's about taking advantage of a major opportunity to make what I - amongst others - feel to be a very important point.

[britishboy]

I see what he is saying here, and about the original "vodka" comment (even though a lot of us can not drink LOL).

The point is that if you want to boycott and protest Russia, then fine. Why boycott the Olympics and the athletes who train for years for this, though?

I can understand wanting to put a dent into what Russia is sure to make off of the tourism from the Olympics. Protesting the Olympics, or at the Olympics...that's kind of pointless as far as Russia is concerned. You're mainly just hurting the image of the Olympics by association.

It's pretty ass-backwards thinking and it really doesn't hurt Russia that much. It only tarnishes the spirit of the Olympics.

I agree well put:)

[Harry Smith]

I agree well put:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportin..._Apartheid_era

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportin..._Apartheid_era

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportin..._Apartheid_era

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportin..._Apartheid_era

you seem to be ignoring me jack, if you want to have an honest debate be a man and have the courage to actually have a debate rather than your rather repetive rheteroic about loving Russia.

Sport doesn't exist in it's bubble, it's part of our culture and our society. We've boycotted before and we'll do it again. It's not about getting Mr Putin to change over night- it's so that in 20 years the world won't look back and think how the fuck did we let this happen. But I'm sure as Mr Putin VT spokesperson and 'an lgbt' fan you can explain how your supporting a homophobe. We've done it before, and I think we should do it again.

I don't support homophobic laws, do you?

Everything in life is about politics expect politics, that's about power.

It seems on all your threads you suggest an idea and then hide when more than one person challenges you

[britishboy]

Sigh.

For ultimate effect certain LGBT-rights activists want to use a major global sporting event to push the point that institutionalised homophobia isn't acceptable. It's not about merging the two [Politics and Sport]. It's about taking advantage of a major opportunity to make what I - amongst others - feel to be a very important point.

protest then, persuade the Russians as they're the only ones that can change it not us, and by making a political statement and an international fun event you are merging two

[Harry Smith]

protest then, persuade the Russians as they're the only ones that can change it not us, and by making a political statement and an international fun event you are merging two

International fun event.... That's bad even for your standards.

As I've said before sport and politics have been linked since sport was invented, we stopped playing south Africa at sport because something called the apartheid where they separated blacks and whites and abused black rights.

The protest is the boycott by the way, a boycott is a type of protest you know

[britishboy]

Just something I would like to point out is that China hosted brilliant games and they're considerably worse than Russia

[Emerald Dream]

Are we suggesting shutting down the Olympics here? That is punishing thousands and thousands of athletes, and is highly hypocritical to goodwill. Moving the Olympics within three months of it's start is probably a logistical impossibility.

The article that was posted merely listed the exclusion of South Africa from certain sporting events. The few times it was mentioned about hosting something, an invitation was either "not extended" or taken away in advance. The fact that it wasn't moved before now means the events are going to continue whether people like it or not. Which means a protest, no matter how big or small...is not going to do much of anything. This probably should have been thought of a LONG time ago.

Which comes back to the point - find some way to protest Russia itself. I can understand people being pissed, and I agree it's not right. Involving the Olympics at THIS point however, is not very well thought out and a knee-jerk reaction.

[Charlie48]

I don't think anyone will notice if Great Britain doesn't turn up, not like they will win anything. :D
All everyone wants to see is Canada win the gold medal in hockey (again). Couldn't give a damn about the rest of the Olympics.

[Harry Smith]

Just something I would like to point out is that China hosted brilliant games and they're considerably worse than Russia

It's not a question of the quality of the sport, I'm sure Russia have the correct facilities to carry out the Olympics, I never supported China having the Olympics, heck I'm sick of how the west cozy up to China now they've got trading power.

Them being worse than Russia doesn't make Russia any better, the issue is the winter Olympics not the chinese.

In regards to South Africa in regards to cricket it was bad on the players, some of their best players never got to play in the international game and that's ashame. But it showed the world that we didn't condone racism, and I believe that Britain doesn't condone anti gay laws.

To be honest I'm sick of hearing people say oh think of the poor athletes when Russian teenagers are getting killed for being gay and the state does nothing

Russia's recent anti-gay legislation contradicts the letter and spirit of the Olympic Charter, and the International Olympic Committee must acknowledge that and find a different, more tolerant and civilized host country. This is not just another political issue.. this is an issue of human rights.

This just shows how stupid people can be, we are so happy to bomb, kill, torture in foreign wars, we claimed to invade Afghanistan to improve human rights but god no we can't stop a sporting event that would be so bad. I wonder what would happen if a genocide would be going on because occurring to 50% of the people in this thread we would have to allow the Olympics to go on in said country because we can't combine sports and politics

[Emerald Dream]

Russia's recent anti-gay legislation contradicts the letter and spirit of the Olympic Charter, and the International Olympic Committee must acknowledge that and find a different, more tolerant and civilized host country. This is not just another political issue.. this is an issue of human rights.


I agree with this on principle. The problem if people really wanted the Olympics removed from Russia, it should have been more of an uproar YEARS AGO. It wasn't, and now that it's two and a half months from the games you are wanting it moved to a more suitable host country. That's ridiculous, and even suggesting that the logistics of this be considered....it's unbelievably laughable.

I don't agree with Russia's stance on this at all. It's horrible. But where was all this protest or removal of the games talk 5-10 years ago?

[Harry Smith]

I agree with this on principle. The problem if people really wanted the Olympics removed from Russia, it should have been more of an uproar YEARS AGO. It wasn't, and now that it's two and a half months from the games you are wanting it moved to a more suitable host country. That's ridiculous, and even suggesting that the logistics of this be considered....it's unbelievably laughable.

I don't agree with Russia's stance on this at all. It's horrible. But where was all this protest or removal of the games talk 5-10 years ago?

The national law as only passed in 2013, before hand Putin didn't really do anything for or against the gay rights movement. The law was only passed this year which is why the reaction is only happening now. It just shows how Putin is slipping further and further down the path towards becoming the next Stalin.

[Emerald Dream]

The national law as only passed in 2013, before hand Putin didn't really do anything for or against the gay rights movement. The law was only passed this year which is why the reaction is only happening now.

Fair point. The fact I didn't know this shows just how little has been done about it in the meantime.

Either way.. suggesting that the Olympics either be shut down or moved within months of starting is unrealistic, and I think you realize that.

There has to be a way to protest Russia in a way that is long term. Suggesting anything to do with the Olympics just isn't going to do it at this point. While I can see what you are saying about teenagers being killed as opposed to "poor athletes" - there's still no point in punishing the "poor athletes" when what you are suggesting won't do anything (realistically) at this point.

Yes, Putin is a dog. You can also blame the IOC if you want. But it's too late to protest effectively. Nothing will happen in the present. Find something that will effect the future.

[britishboy]

the anti gay laws are irrelevant and have a place in their politics not our sport

its unfair on us, it ruins the games and achieves nothing, its also terribly unfair on Russia not to mention practically impossible, unprofessional and laughable

for the reasons above I have no question with supporting it, its going to be brilliant, the torch is even going into space!

I also agree with everything emerald dream is saying

oh and you guys should read this
Back in ancient Greece, the games
took place under a truce. "Wars
were suspended, armies were
prohibited from entering Elis (the
site of the first Olympics) or
threatening the Games, and legal
disputes and the carrying out of
death penalties were forbidden,"
notes the Perseus Digital Library
Project at Tufts University. That
allowed enemies to meet without
hatred or bloodshed. To stay away
from the event because it is being
held in a place inhospitable to our
values is to miss the point.

www.townhall.com/columnists/stevechapman/2013/08/11/why-we-shouldnt-boycott-the-olympics-n1660747/page/full

[Tarannosaurus]

the anti gay laws are irrelevant and have a place in their politics not our sport

its unfair on us, it ruins the games and achieves nothing, its also terribly unfair on Russia not to mention practically impossible, unprofessional and laughable

for the reasons above I have no question with supporting it, its going to be brilliant, the torch is even going into space!

I also agree with everything emerald dream is saying

oh and you guys should read this
Back in ancient Greece, the games
took place under a truce. "Wars
were suspended, armies were
prohibited from entering Elis (the
site of the first Olympics) or
threatening the Games, and legal
disputes and the carrying out of
death penalties were forbidden,"
notes the Perseus Digital Library
Project at Tufts University. That
allowed enemies to meet without
hatred or bloodshed. To stay away
from the event because it is being
held in a place inhospitable to our
values is to miss the point.

www.townhall.com/columnists/stevechapman/2013/08/11/why-we-shouldnt-boycott-the-olympics-n1660747/page/full

Except the anti-gay laws (and "penalties" of) will be imposed on the athletes.

[britishboy]

Except the anti-gay laws (and "penalties" of) will be imposed on the athletes.

they wont Russia has insisted

[Sugaree]

they wont Russia has insisted

Oh, so NOW you're going to just believe Russia on a whim? What happened to the britishboy we once knew that thought Russia was not to be trusted?

[thatcountrykid]

Heck no! If they don't like if they don't have to go or watch. Don't ruin it for a whole country.

[britishboy]

Oh, so NOW you're going to just believe Russia on a whim? What happened to the britishboy we once knew that thought Russia was not to be trusted?

you think Russia will show there brutality with the whole world watching? no. they will pull out everything they have to make the Olympicss look great like China or London, the torch is even going into space!

Heck no! If they don't like if they don't have to go or watch. Don't ruin it for a whole country.

I agree

[Harry Smith]

you think Russia will show there brutality with the whole world watching? no. they will pull out everything they have to make the Olympicss look great like China or London, the torch is even going into space!

Yeah because Russia have never been brutal before ask Georgia, or the Muslims in Chechnya

I agree

the anti gay laws are irrelevant and have a place in their politics not our sport

its unfair on us, it ruins the games and achieves nothing, its also terribly unfair on Russia not to mention practically impossible, unprofessional and laughable

for the reasons above I have no question with supporting it, its going to be brilliant, the torch is even going into space!

I also agree with everything emerald dream is saying



The anti-gay laws are not irrelevant, I don't understand how you claim to support LGBT righs, it's like Hitler claiming to be a Zionist.

The whole point of a boycott is to ruin the games... Christ you're really not the sharpest knife

You haven't commented once about the nature of the anti-gay laws, so I'll ask again do you support the anti-gay laws?

As I said before we're happy to invade countries for human rights abuses but god no we couldn't stop a sporting event- that would be immoral.

It's not impossible- the British Olympic commission pulls out- it's legally and logistically possible

I also don't understand this dying need to have sport above all elese, what if Russia was say committing genocide because by your theory Jack the Olympics would still go ahead

[Sugaree]

you think Russia will show there brutality with the whole world watching? no.

Uh, yes, I think they would do exactly that. Olympics aside, they've done it in the past. They did it in Georgia just a few years ago and to the Chechen people in the 90s. Russia doesn't care if the whole world is watching, they WILL show their strength. The United States has done the same in the past.

[TheAverageJoe]

you think Russia will show there brutality with the whole world watching? no.

My friend you really dont know mr putin then,

[TheBigUnit]

Uh, yes, I think they would do exactly that. Olympics aside, they've done it in the past. They did it in Georgia just a few years ago and to the Chechen people in the 90s. Russia doesn't care if the whole world is watching, they WILL show their strength. The United States has done the same in the past.

couldn't say it any better

[Tarannosaurus]

you think Russia will show there brutality with the whole world watching?

Russia is showing its brutality. You clearly don't know much about what's happening there. Do some research.

[Harry Smith]

you think Russia will show there brutality with the whole world watching? no.

There have been thousands of articles, speeches and programs about Russia anti-gay laws, that shows the whole world is watching. The very fact that we're talking about a boycott shows that Russia continues to be violent against it's gay citizens whilst the whole world is watching. Debunked much?

[britishboy]

Uh, yes, I think they would do exactly that. Olympics aside, they've done it in the past. They did it in Georgia just a few years ago and to the Chechen people in the 90s. Russia doesn't care if the whole world is watching, they WILL show their strength. The United States has done the same in the past.

Russia is showing its brutality. You clearly don't know much about what's happening there. Do some research.

couldn't say it any better

My friend you really dont know mr putin then,



Russia is trying to rebrand itself, as the UK done with the London Olympics, they will try to attract as much attention as possible to sell themselves and improve trade, they wont go to all the effot of rebranding themselves and sending the torch into space just to ruin it all at the Olympics, Russia is trying to hide it all, they wont show it to the world

[Sugaree]

Russia is trying to rebrand itself, as the UK done with the London Olympics, they will try to attract as much attention as possible to sell themselves and improve trade, they wont go to all the effot of rebranding themselves and sending the torch into space just to ruin it all at the Olympics, Russia is trying to hide it all, they wont show it to the world

If they're trying to hide something, they aren't doing it very well. And what the hell have you done to the Jack we know and love? Since when are you so eager to come running to Russia's defense?

[britishboy]

If they're trying to hide something, they aren't doing it very well. And what the hell have you done to the Jack we know and love? Since when are you so eager to come running to Russia's defense?

Firstly I'm not on their defense and do oppose the ill thought out laws but we shouldnt boycott their games.

They want the focus to be on what Russia can do as a modern and strong country, like the London or Beijing, they're putting a lot of effot into it and anything negative on a athlete will be hugely damaging

Secondly Beijing is much worse and they had a brilliant Olympic games, national politics shouldnt be involved, because things can get messy, the beauty of the Olympics is that friends and enemies play together, bring national politics into it and it could lead to countries being bared or negatively portrayed because of politics. Let Russian politics stay in Russia.

It's unfair to the athletes and fans if countries with good teams such as the bobsled teams don't show up, it makes the games unfair.

It will have no difference to an highly anti gay country

Lastly, you can use the Olympics to protest with banners and slogans, educating the world of the issue but there is no just cause to refuse to attend the Winter Olympics

[thatcountrykid]

It's not a question of the quality of the sport, I'm sure Russia have the correct facilities to carry out the Olympics, I never supported China having the Olympics, heck I'm sick of how the west cozy up to China now they've got trading power.

Them being worse than Russia doesn't make Russia any better, the issue is the winter Olympics not the chinese.

In regards to South Africa in regards to cricket it was bad on the players, some of their best players never got to play in the international game and that's ashame. But it showed the world that we didn't condone racism, and I believe that Britain doesn't condone anti gay laws.

To be honest I'm sick of hearing people say oh think of the poor athletes when Russian teenagers are getting killed for being gay and the state does nothing

Russia's recent anti-gay legislation contradicts the letter and spirit of the Olympic Charter, and the International Olympic Committee must acknowledge that and find a different, more tolerant and civilized host country. This is not just another political issue.. this is an issue of human rights.

This just shows how stupid people can be, we are so happy to bomb, kill, torture in foreign wars, we claimed to invade Afghanistan to improve human rights but god no we can't stop a sporting event that would be so bad. I wonder what would happen if a genocide would be going on because occurring to 50% of the people in this thread we would have to allow the Olympics to go on in said country because we can't combine sports and politics

The charter is not international law. The reason we cannot allow the olympics to be cancelled because some people are upset about something that really doesnt affect them is because these great olympics are a tradition from the ancients greeks.

How about this, if an athlete doesnt want to go, so be it. If all of britain doesnt want to go, oh well.

[Sugaree]

Lastly, you can use the Olympics to protest with banners and slogans, educating the world of the issue but there is no just cause to refuse to attend the Winter Olympics

The Olympics are a highly viewed event. Billions of people around the world watch them every few years. What better time than to try to bring attention to matters such as these? If that's going to harm the Olympics, then so be it. But it would be a very bad opportunity missed if we didn't try to at least bring attention to the matter by using the Olympics as a platform. I'm not saying to protest the Olympics and bar them from taking place; I'm just saying to use them as a platform to bring the issue at hand to a broader audience if we want to see it through.

But this obviously doesn't matter to you. You want to make sure things are "fair" and force everyone to attend whether they agree with Russia or not. Do you think that's fair to the athletes who may feel that they don't want to attend because they don't like the anti-gay laws? Or maybe because they might have family members who are gay? As I said, it doesn't matter to you.

[Harry Smith]

Firstly I'm not on their defense and do oppose the ill thought out laws but we shouldnt boycott their games.

They want the focus to be on what Russia can do as a modern and strong country, like the London or Beijing, they're putting a lot of effot into it and anything negative on a athlete will be hugely damaging

Secondly Beijing is much worse and they had a brilliant Olympic games, national politics shouldnt be involved, because things can get messy, the beauty of the Olympics is that friends and enemies play together, bring national politics into it and it could lead to countries being bared or negatively portrayed because of politics. Let Russian politics stay in Russia.

It's unfair to the athletes and fans if countries with good teams such as the bobsled teams don't show up, it makes the games unfair.

It will have no difference to an highly anti gay country

Lastly, you can use the Olympics to protest with banners and slogans, educating the world of the issue but there is no just cause to refuse to attend the Winter Olympics

What's more unfair a couple of people not being able to slide down a hill or a gay teenager getting beaten up and killed...

Answer me this-if Russia was committing genocide would you cancel the Olympics? By your theory it should still go ahead even if genocide is occurring because that would be making it politcal

Your argument's are looking scarily similar to one's presented by a Facist

The charter is not international law. The reason we cannot allow the olympics to be cancelled because some people are upset about something that really doesnt affect them is because these great olympics are a tradition from the ancients greeks.

How about this, if an athlete doesnt want to go, so be it. If all of britain doesnt want to go, oh well.

I know the charter isn't international law, some people upset? This isn't a case of me being upset about it it's a much bigger issue, I'm upset as not being able to miss on school on Monday- I'm sickened and horrified by the actions of the russian regime

Oh wait you're the person who supports the KKK-I'm sure you're going to have an open view about LGBT rights...

[britishboy]

The Olympics are a highly viewed event. Billions of people around the world watch them every few years. What better time than to try to bring attention to matters such as these? If that's going to harm the Olympics, then so be it. But it would be a very bad opportunity missed if we didn't try to at least bring attention to the matter by using the Olympics as a platform. I'm not saying to protest the Olympics and bar them from taking place; I'm just saying to use them as a platform to bring the issue at hand to a broader audience if we want to see it through.

But this obviously doesn't matter to you. You want to make sure things are "fair" and force everyone to attend whether they agree with Russia or not. Do you think that's fair to the athletes who may feel that they don't want to attend because they don't like the anti-gay laws? Or maybe because they might have family members who are gay? As I said, it doesn't matter to you.

Well put, as I said if you feel passionate about it, do use the time to protest, just do not ruin it for so many, no what is happening to the gays is not fair but that is Russian politics and the Olympics should stsy independent from all of that

[Tarannosaurus]

Lastly, you can use the Olympics to protest with banners and slogans, educating the world of the issue but there is no just cause to refuse to attend the Winter Olympics

No you can't, not if you don't want to fester in a Russian prison.

[TheBigUnit]

Russia is trying to rebrand itself, as the UK done with the London Olympics, they will try to attract as much attention as possible to sell themselves and improve trade, they wont go to all the effot of rebranding themselves and sending the torch into space just to ruin it all at the Olympics, Russia is trying to hide it all, they wont show it to the world

Putin still has a soviet mindset, though he is very very religious believe it or not, Russia is kinda trying to rebrand themselves but russians like to prove they are the best through brute force and making and breaking new records, they rather show off their strengths rather than hide them, which is why they take great pride in their national hockey team (Broad Street Bullies ;) Let Go Flyers haha) anddddd their rulings and that is why the torch reached the north pole and space for the first time, technically during the cold war the Soviets were the first to achieve many goals, but the Americans were far more efficient and advanced and ended up improving many of the the Soviets fails

[Luminous]

They just happen to be in Russia this year and Russia just happens to have discriminatory laws against gays.

^This.
I don't think the Olympics should really be hosted in Russia this year, however I don't think that just because it is it's a good enough reason to boycott the Olympics. I am gay and I am a strong believer in.. I don't know, that it's okay and perfectly normal, that it shouldn't be a big deal. It's not fair to the amazing athletes competing, they don't have any say in where the Olympics are being hosted. Though I don't have any interest in sports, and I won't have anything to do with the Winter Olympics, I'm not really 'boycotting' it.

[thatcountrykid]

What's more unfair a couple of people not being able to slide down a hill or a gay teenager getting beaten up and killed...

Answer me this-if Russia was committing genocide would you cancel the Olympics? By your theory it should still go ahead even if genocide is occurring because that would be making it politcal

Your argument's are looking scarily similar to one's presented by a Facist



I know the charter isn't international law, some people upset? This isn't a case of me being upset about it it's a much bigger issue, I'm upset as not being able to miss on school on Monday- I'm sickened and horrified by the actions of the russian regime

Oh wait you're the person who supports the KKK-I'm sure you're going to have an open view about LGBT rights...

I dont support the kkk and i do have my opinions on LGBT.

[RoseyCadaver]

If people had the will and courage to boycott the 1976 Olympics for apartheid policies then why shouldn't we boycott the silly reds and their trans and homophobia?

[Stronk Serb]

If people had the will and courage to boycott the 1976 Olympics for apartheid policies then why shouldn't we boycott the silly reds and their trans and homophobia?

Trust me, Russia is worse then the USSR. Russia is a combination of the US, Nazi Germany and the USSR, plus xenophobia to religions other than Orthodox Christianity.

[britishboy]

No you can't, not if you don't want to fester in a Russian prison.

You can protest in Russia

www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE9A30FN20131104?irpc=932

www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/13/thousands-riot-in-russia-for-the-russians-protests/

Putin still has a soviet mindset, though he is very very religious believe it or not, Russia is kinda trying to rebrand themselves but russians like to prove they are the best through brute force and making and breaking new records, they rather show off their strengths rather than hide them, which is why they take great pride in their national hockey team (Broad Street Bullies ;) Let Go Flyers haha) anddddd their rulings and that is why the torch reached the north pole and space for the first time, technically during the cold war the Soviets were the first to achieve many goals, but the Americans were far more efficient and advanced and ended up improving many of the the Soviets fails

Putin is extremely powerful, he could have them all hung, but the most powerful thing today will be damaged, trade and with Russia in a bad economic state, they want that trade.

[Tarannosaurus]

You can protest in Russia

www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE9A30FN20131104?irpc=932

www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/13/thousands-riot-in-russia-for-the-russians-protests/

Neither of those links are gay rights protests. It's illegal to promote a 'homosexual lifestyle'.

[TheBigUnit]

Putin is extremely powerful, he could have them all hung, but the most powerful thing today will be damaged, trade and with Russia in a bad economic state, they want that trade.

That doesn't mean they wont hide the fact that they are homophobic xenophobes, they will try to make russia seem appealing but they wont hide their viewpoints, but None of this is putins concern as of right now and it shoildnt be until after the olympics unless the boycotts really get out of hand

[Harry Smith]

I dont support the kkk and i do have my opinions on LGBT.

Oh yeah you just claimed that 99% of the KKK are decent people...

I'd love to hear your views on your LGBT movement, I bet they're enlightening.

On the subject of the boycott we can't go over to Russia and like what they're doing is fine because quite frankly it's plain wrong, they're removing the right to protest about key issues- that's not at all democratic yet you have people claiming that Putin is the gods gift to Russia.

We boycotted sporting events because of racism, why not for homophobia

[britishboy]

Neither of those links are gay rights protests. It's illegal to promote a 'homosexual lifestyle'.

yep, and the athletes are not doing that and they're protected, Russias laws are politics and should be separate from the Olympics, just look at Beijing, countries will always disagree on laws but focus on more important stuff at the Olympics such as trade and strengthening diplomatic relationships

[Harry Smith]

yep, and the athletes are not doing that and they're protected, Russias laws are politics and should be separate from the Olympics, just look at Beijing, countries will always disagree on laws but focus on more important stuff at the Olympics such as trade and strengthening diplomatic relationships

I'm sorry but gay rights are a lot more important than diplomatic relations oh wait human rights that is...

You do know that all your arguments sound pretty damn similar to one's that the Nazis would of used in 1936- can't you see the parallels? The athletes aren't protected from the anti-gay laws, the Russian interior minister who said that 'anti propaganda rules will be upheld in sochi'

I'll ask for the 6th time, heck in the PM you weren't even able to answer it, If a genocide was occurring in Russia by your theory the Olympics would have to continue- that is correct isn't it?

In 1936 we failed to act- we endorsed Hitler and his Olympics, and his anti-Semitic laws stripping Jews of their rights- that sounds pretty similar to Russia

Leader with questionable authority, laws targeting minority, west rushing to appease said country- guess what comes next?

You have the poppy as your profile picture, yet you're currently standing up for Fascism in Russia well done

[Tarannosaurus]

yep, and the athletes are not doing that and they're protected, Russias laws are politics and should be separate from the Olympics, just look at Beijing, countries will always disagree on laws but focus on more important stuff at the Olympics such as trade and strengthening diplomatic relationships

But the laws for the athletes are not separate. Olympic athletes are not protected. It was specifically stated that the athletes would be expected to obey the anti-gay laws or suffer the consequences a Russian citizen would (i.e. imprisonment).

[britishboy]

That doesn't mean they wont hide the fact that they are homophobic xenophobes, they will try to make russia seem appealing but they wont hide their viewpoints, but None of this is putins concern as of right now and it shoildnt be until after the olympics unless the boycotts really get out of hand

I also dont believe they will hide the viewpoints but they know a lot more is at stake than annoying some gays.

[tovaris]

why? whyt?
What reson there is for bycoting the winter olimpics? If its gay righs you are woried about you should boicot 90% of the rest of the world including UK...

[Harry Smith]

more is at stake than annoying some gays.

Fascism much? I'm sure Hitler said he was happy to annoy 'some jews'

why? whyt?
What reson there is for bycoting the winter olimpics? If its gay righs you are woried about you should boicot 90% of the rest of the world including UK...

In the Uk gay people are protected at work, allowled to adopt children, and in about 6 months time marry each other- don't pretend that the UK has similar gay policies or laws as Russia

[tovaris]

Fascism much? I'm sure Hitler said he was happy to annoy 'some jews'



In the Uk gay people are protected at work, allowled to adopt children, and in about 6 months time marry each other- don't pretend that the UK has similar gay policies or laws as Russia

It doesn't but things stil aren't perfeckt on the island...

[thatcountrykid]

Oh yeah you just claimed that 99% of the KKK are decent people...

I'd love to hear your views on your LGBT movement, I bet they're enlightening.

On the subject of the boycott we can't go over to Russia and like what they're doing is fine because quite frankly it's plain wrong, they're removing the right to protest about key issues- that's not at all democratic yet you have people claiming that Putin is the gods gift to Russia.

We boycotted sporting events because of racism, why not for homophobia

I support my family. I couldnt careless about the rest off the kkk. Thats all i'll say on this subject.

As far as LGBT goes. I honestly could care less. Just dont flaunt it. When it starts affect the hard work of thousands of athletes and a major event that brings enimies together, that when it goes too far.

[Harry Smith]

I support my family. I couldnt careless about the rest off the kkk. Thats all i'll say on this subject.

As far as LGBT goes. I honestly could care less. Just dont flaunt it. When it starts affect the hard work of thousands of athletes and a major event that brings enimies together, that when it goes too far.

Don't flaunt being gay but it's ok to flaunt race supremacist. I honestly can't believe that someone who comes from the family that supports the Ku Klux Klan is telling me I shouldn't express my homosexuality, I hope you're not going to tie me up a tree.

Think about the gay Russian teenagers being killed for being gay- oh wait the KKK enjoy killing anyone who isn't white and straight.

You want to talk about too far- talk to the lesbian collectively gang raped, or the gay activists being beaten up for protesting

[thatcountrykid]

Don't flaunt being gay but it's ok to flaunt race supremacist. I honestly can't believe that someone who comes from the family that supports the Ku Klux Klan is telling me I shouldn't express my homosexuality, I hope you're not going to tie me up a tree.

Think about the gay Russian teenagers being killed for being gay- oh wait the KKK enjoy killing anyone who isn't white and straight.

You want to talk about too far- talk to the lesbian collectively gang raped, or the gay activists being beaten up for protesting

Whats the deal with the personal attacks man? My family isnt racist white trash. They had pride the same as you do. My whole point is that if it doesn't affect you, who cares? Why screw it up for thousands of hard working athletes at one of the greatest events in world history.

[Lovelife090994]

A boycott? Why? Boycott the Muslim word. Why? They kill homosexuals if homosexual injustice is your issue. One, does this affect you? Two, is this going to help? Three, do you know the new Russian law?
The law protects minors from homosexual propaganda, it does not say homosexuals shall be punished for being homosexual. Two very different things. People have blown it out of proportion.

[Sugaree]

Whats the deal with the personal attacks man?

This is how a progressive debates. Watch and learn.

[britishboy]

A boycott? Why? Boycott the Muslim word. Why? They kill homosexuals if homosexual injustice is your issue. One, does this affect you? Two, is this going to help? Three, do you know the new Russian law?
The law protects minors from homosexual propaganda, it does not say homosexuals shall be punished for being homosexual. Two very different things. People have blown it out of proportion.

I agree Russia has been blown out of proportion, but please dont be racist

[Tarannosaurus]

A boycott? Why? Boycott the Muslim word. Why? They kill homosexuals if homosexual injustice is your issue.
Actually it is a hanging offence in 9 countries not all of which are predominantly Muslim. "Muslims" don't kill homosexuals "some countries which are predominantly Muslim" kill homosexuals. You can't blame all Muslims everywhere for thatfor that. It is the governments of those 9 countries which should be, and are beginning to be, protested against. Just as the Russian government should be protested against.


One, does this affect you?
No. It affects thousands of gay Russians who deserve justice and need help getting that justice. If we keep ignoring injustice, we're going to keep seeing genocides.

Two, is this going to help?
Yes. It will send a strong message to Putin that the world will not stand by while he tortures, murders, and discriminates against innocent people. It also sends a message of solidary to gay Russians and gives them courage.

Three, do you know the new Russian law?
The law protects minors from homosexual propaganda, it does not say homosexuals shall be punished for being homosexual.
It says that people will be punished for promoting homosexuality in any form, including helping gay teens who experience horrific homophobia, and helping them to accept their sexuality.

Two very different things. People have blown it out of proportion. While the law might not seem that bad to some, actual practice is very different. Anyone who is arrested under the law can be tortured. It is a common belief that homosexuality is an illness. Neo Nazis supported by the police are humiliating, torturing and murdering gay teens. How do we know this? They take videos of it and put them up on youtube afterwards. Gay teens fear for their lives, they have no one to turn to.

If ignored these problems will not only continue, but escalate. If not the Olympics then something else needs to be done. To my mind, if we stand by, we are just as bad as Putin. The person who stands by in incidences of bullying is also a bully. Do you want to stand by when we could be preventing the murder of innocent people?

[britishboy]

While the law might not seem that bad to some, actual practice is very different. Anyone who is arrested under the law can be tortured. It is a common belief that homosexuality is an illness. Neo Nazis supported by the police are humiliating, torturing and murdering gay teens. How do we know this? They take videos of it and put them up on youtube afterwards. Gay teens fear for their lives, they have no one to turn to.

If ignored these problems will not only continue, but escalate. If not the Olympics then something else needs to be done. To my mind, if we stand by, we are just as bad as Putin. The person who stands by in incidences of bullying is also a bully. Do you want to stand by when we could be preventing the murder of innocent people?

while this will sound bad it's true, Russia is a very anti gay country, its not like the government is pushing stuff onto the people its what the people want and thats democracy, the Olympics wing change that only educating the country. I'm a strong believer in democracy, also the law itself is over reacted to and Russian police turning a blind eye is a problem of their police disciple not the law



Yes. It will send a strong message to Putin that the world will not stand by while he tortures, murders, and discriminates against innocent people. It also sends a message of solidary to gay Russians and gives them courage.

please it will damage trade and diplomatic relationships, both more valuable and wont do any goof because sending a strong message results in him being a brick wall, look at Syria or Edward Snowdon

[Tarannosaurus]

while this will sound bad it's true, Russia is a very anti gay country, its not like the government is pushing stuff onto the people its what the people want and thats democracy, the Olympics wing change that only educating the country. I'm a strong believer in democracy, also the law itself is over reacted to and Russian police turning a blind eye is a problem of their police disciple not the law I agree with a lot of what you said here howevr the government has the responsibility to protect their people. Ye it's the police force but the government are the only people with the power to sort out the police. Until the police are sorted most people will be too scared to say what they actually want.

please it will damage trade and diplomatic relationships, both more valuable and wont do any goof because sending a strong message results in him being a brick wall, look at Syria or Edward Snowdon
Undoubtedly it will damage trade and diplomacy. But isn't human life more valuable? I see whre you're coming from but at the same time we can't just stand by and do nothing. There are international laws that Putin is breaking.

Yes it might result in a brick wall. But maybe that strong message would be enough to get the people on the inside to stand up for their fellow citizens.

[Tarannosaurus]

Look at the image in this article http://www.exposingthetruth.co/truth-media/#axzz2kI38hlXI
All it takes is 10%.

[britishboy]

I agree with a lot of what you said here howevr the government has the responsibility to protect their people. Ye it's the police force but the government are the only people with the power to sort out the police. Until the police are sorted most people will be too scared to say what they actually want.


ok the police force needs discipline, hardly a reason to boycott the Olympics


Undoubtedly it will damage trade and diplomacy. But isn't human life more valuable? I see whre you're coming from but at the same time we can't just stand by and do nothing. There are international laws that Putin is breaking.


no body is dying, you just dont tell those under age your gay, if you feel passionate do something, but dont ruin it for so many that wants the games and trade and diplomatic relationships are more valuable to us because the law doesn't effect us and we benefit from trade and diplomatic relationships

Yes it might result in a brick wall. But maybe that strong message would be enough to get the people on the inside to stand up for their fellow citizens.

the people on the inside hate gays as I said its not like the law is not wanted, and it will only make things worse where as attending we can actually help more

[Tarannosaurus]

ok the police force needs discipline, hardly a reason to boycott the Olympics
At this stage boycotting the Olympics might not work but there needs to be some sort of campaign to get the government to discipline the police force.


no body is dying, you just dont tell those under age your gay, if you feel passionate do something, but dont ruin it for so many that wants the games and trade and diplomatic relationships are more valuable to us because the law doesn't effect us and we benefit from trade and diplomatic relationships
People are dying there's video footage to prove it. Posting links to the videos are probably against VT rules some of them are pretty gruesome. See it's not just about not telling people who are under age. Under age people are also suffering and dying. It's not as easy as just not telling anyone. It's hiding who you are and teaching people to be ashamed of something they can't change. It means pretending to be homophobic. It means marrying someone of the opposite sex because there's no other way to avoid suspicion.

the people on the inside hate gays as I said its not like the law is not wanted, and it will only make things worse where as attending we can actually help more
I'm not denying that but gay people were hated in many places in the past. In Ireland it was illegal to be gay 10 years ago. But I have confidence that if public opinion can change in all those other countries then it can in Russia. Maybe people could help by attending but they'd have to be very careful as foreigners are subject to the same laws.

[britishboy]

At this stage boycotting the Olympics might not work but there needs to be some sort of campaign to get the government to discipline the police force.

ok as I said campaign then, if you disagree with any law campaign


People are dying there's video footage to prove it. Posting links to the videos are probably against VT rules some of them are pretty gruesome. See it's not just about not telling people who are under age. Under age people are also suffering and dying. It's not as easy as just not telling anyone. It's hiding who you are and teaching people to be ashamed of something they can't change. It means pretending to be homophobic. It means marrying someone of the opposite sex because there's no other way to avoid suspicion.


typical example of ovee reaction, the law is not ordering that it to happen, people die in the UK, Germany, France and America, there are canables, pedos and psychos in all these countries, its not exclusive to Russia

all you have to tell is not tell those under age youe gay

pm me the videos, theres no point us debating if we dont show eachother why we think how we do


I'm not denying that but gay people were hated in many places in the past. In Ireland it was illegal to be gay 10 years ago. But I have confidence that if public opinion can change in all those other countries then it can in Russia. Maybe people could help by attending but they'd have to be very careful as foreigners are subject to the same laws.

but in todays Russia its wanted and is so democratic, boycotting thr Olympics wont change public opinion, thats whats needed

Ireland is a terrible country, Russia should inspire to be like the U.S. not Ireland.

so whats your opinion, should we boycott the Olympics?

[Tarannosaurus]

typical example of ovee reaction, the law is not ordering that it to happen
I didn't say it was. You said people weren't dying and I was informing you that they actually were. Whether it's sanctioned by law or not, it's happening.

all you have to tell is not tell those under age youe gay
That's not all there is to it as I already explained.


but in todays Russia its wanted and is so democratic, boycotting thr Olympics wont change public opinion, thats whats needed
However it is a human rights abuse and legalised discrimination.

Ireland is a terrible country, Russia should inspire to be like the U.S. not Ireland.
You gave no reasons for why Ireland is a terrible country. The US is currently a police state.

so whats your opinion, should we boycott the Olympics?
I do not think it could be successfully organised at this late stage however I do not think it should have been allowed to go ahead.

[britishboy]

I didn't say it was. You said people weren't dying and I was informing you that they actually were. Whether it's sanctioned by law or not, it's happening.

you think people dont die in other countries? its never legal




That's not all there is to it as I already explained.

yes it is and I asked you to pm me the evidence



I do not think it could be successfully organised at this late stage however I do not think it should have been allowed to go ahead.

of course it should have gone ahead, Russia will be a brilliant host, they sent the torch into space, they're pulling out all the stops, if China was allowed to host the summer Olympics so can Russia.

the beauty of the Olympics is that all countries forget about politics for the games! Argentina plays with Great Britian, North Korea plays with South Korea, Russias politics belong with the Russians to decide.

[Harry Smith]

you think people dont die in other countries? its never legal



yes it is and I asked you to pm me the evidence




of course it should have gone ahead, Russia will be a brilliant host, they sent the torch into space, they're pulling out all the stops, if China was allowed to host the summer Olympics so can Russia.

the beauty of the Olympics is that all countries forget about politics for the games! Argentina plays with Great Britian, North Korea plays with South Korea, Russias politics belong with the Russians to decide.

You always do this when you lost a debate- you start panicking asking for people to give evidence and when they do you ignore it.

People shouldn't have to lie about their sexuality in Russia-wait people shouldn't be murdered for their sexuality whilst the State do nothing. That's the issue I have is that the russian police aren't protecting their own citizens.

As I said before occording your argument we should carry on the Olympics during war and even genocide, so I assume you'd assume Berlin 1944 then? In your narrow minded view it's just the same since the holocaust is a matter for German politics. Welcome to the SS.

I also don't like how your insulting Ireland, I've got Irish hertiage and I'd much rather be irish than be a British twat like you who seems to be sucking on Mr Putins cock because 'trade' is just so important

[Tarannosaurus]

you think people dont die in other countries? its never legal
I'm aware that people are killed in other countries I wouldn't support holding the Olympics there either.

yes it is and I asked you to pm me the evidence
If it's allowed I'll find some of the links and send them later, I can't go on youtube at the moment. Alternatively you can look them up yourself. And I want to know why you think Ireland is so terrible.

of course it should have gone ahead, Russia will be a brilliant host, they sent the torch into space, they're pulling out all the stops, if China was allowed to host the summer Olympics so can Russia.
Of course. Sending the torch into space obviously excuses the human rights abuses.

the beauty of the Olympics is that all countries forget about politics for the games! Argentina plays with Great Britian, North Korea plays with South Korea, Russias politics belong with the Russians to decide.
Russian police and Neonazis will continue their anti-gay policies during the Olympics.

[britishboy]

I'm aware that people are killed in other countries I wouldn't support holding the Olympics there either.

ok so you dont want the Olympics in any country where people die?... ok that rules out every country that can afford it

[Harry Smith]

I'm aware that people are killed in other countries I wouldn't support holding the Olympics there either.


If it's allowed I'll find some of the links and send them later, I can't go on youtube at the moment. Alternatively you can look them up yourself. And I want to know why you think Ireland is so terrible.


Of course. Sending the torch into space obviously excuses the human rights abuses.


Russian police and Neonazis will continue their anti-gay policies during the Olympics.

But you have to remember that Russia are sending the torch into space-that means they must be good...

[britishboy]

But you have to remember that Russia are sending the torch into space-that means they must be good...

thought I would click the view button for one of your posts:P yes they're brilliant hosts, I'm thinking of going with my friends

[Harry Smith]

thought I would click the view button for one of your posts:P yes they're brilliant hosts, I'm thinking of going with my friends

Great-you can pay 2 grand to watch someone skate around on ice- you can do that for free if it snows.

I'm not questioning they're abilities to hold a good sporting event- I'm saying that we shouldn't ignore the obvious human right abuses that are occurring. We did nothing in 1936 when the Nazis did, I want to be able to look back at History and say that the western world didn't stand by as it happened again.

I don't understand how you argue for democracy in Afghanistan yet you suck up to an authoritarian regime in Russia that committed war crimes

[britishboy]

Great-you can pay 2 grand to watch someone skate around on ice- you can do that for free if it snows.

no its the atmosphere and is it called the bobsled? its awesome:D


I'm not questioning they're abilities to hold a good sporting event- I'm saying that we shouldn't ignore the obvious human right abuses that are occurring. We did nothing in 1936 when the Nazis did, I want to be able to look back at History and say that the western world didn't stand by as it happened again.


I never said lets go skipping with Putin and ignore it, do campaign just dont boycott, attending can actually shine light on the issue


I don't understand how you argue for democracy in Afghanistan yet you suck up to an authoritarian regime in Russia that committed war crimes

I'm not sticking up for the Russians at all am I? also the people of Russia hate gays, it is what the people want

[Harry Smith]

no its the atmosphere and is it called the bobsled? its awesome:D



I never said lets go skipping with Putin and ignore it, do campaign just dont boycott, attending can actually shine light on the issue



I'm not sticking up for the Russians at all am I? also the people of Russia hate gays, it is what the people want

The bobsled doesn't involve people skating... that's the one with the kart.

The people of Russia don't hate gays, that's an extremely bold statement.

The people of Germany didn't like the jews that doesn't mean the holocaust was justified does it, 2000 people can think a foolish thought and it's still not correct

In a 2005 poll, 43% of Russians supported a legal ban on discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation

That's not all of Russia, actually back up your argument for once jack

[britishboy]

The bobsled doesn't involve people skating... that's the one with the kart.

The people of Russia don't hate gays, that's an extremely bold statement.

The people of Germany didn't like the jews that doesn't mean the holocaust was justified does it, 2000 people can think a foolish thought and it's still not correct



That's not all of Russia, actually back up your argument for once jack

what do you have against me and my friends going?

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-the-country-that-hates-gay-people-8616223.html

Russia: The country that hates gay
people, its the title

anyway we have gone off topic, should we boycott the Olympics

[Lovelife090994]

I'm aware that people are killed in other countries I wouldn't support holding the Olympics there either.


If it's allowed I'll find some of the links and send them later, I can't go on youtube at the moment. Alternatively you can look them up yourself. And I want to know why you think Ireland is so terrible.


Of course. Sending the torch into space obviously excuses the human rights abuses.


Russian police and Neonazis will continue their anti-gay policies during the Olympics.

YouTube is not always viable for sources just so you know. The Olympics is a world affair not strictly gay or one country affair. Hate Russia if you want but now you are hating the land where many Russians (whom live in other countries too) are from or have lineage too. Neo-nazi? Hardly. You sound like a propagandist.

[Harry Smith]

what do you have against me and my friends going?

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-the-country-that-hates-gay-people-8616223.html

Russia: The country that hates gay
people, its the title

anyway we have gone off topic, should we boycott the Olympics

I don't have anything, I just find it funny that you don't even know the Olympic sports, you make Sarah Palin look good.

I'm not saying that Russia isn't homophobic, I'm debating the fact that the whole of Russia supports the bill because they are people in Russia who oppose it, you make it out like the whole of Russia is in favour of this.

Yes of course, we didn't boycott the 1936 Olympics and looked how that ended, you need to stop these problems early. You're only argument is that sport should be seperate...

We boycotted South African sport for about 30 years due to their racist policies- so no sport and politics are not separate. South Africa weren't allowed in for 40 years so yeah debunked much?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid_South_Africa_and_the_Olympics

[britishboy]

I don't have anything, I just find it funny that you don't even know the Olympic sports, you make Sarah Palin look good.


it would be fun but im not even sure if we can because of the school term dates :'(


I'm not saying that Russia isn't homophobic, I'm debating the fact that the whole of Russia supports the bill because they are people in Russia who oppose it, you make it out like the whole of Russia is in favour of this.


oh I see in which case I wouldn't know, I could say Putin was democraticly elected but... yeah you cant:D

I don't have anything, I just find it funny that you don't even know the Olympic sports, you make Sarah Palin look good.

I'm not saying that Russia isn't homophobic, I'm debating the fact that the whole of Russia supports the bill because they are people in Russia who oppose it, you make it out like the whole of Russia is in favour of this.

Yes of course, we didn't boycott the 1936 Olympics and looked how that ended, you need to stop these problems early. You're only argument is that sport should be seperate...]

in the Olympics politics is put aside, Argentina went to London, if they was thinking politics they wouldn't have attended, thats the beauty

other points include, it will do no good

trade and diplomatic relationships are very important

you could do more attending

dont ruin it for the athletes and people like me that want to attend

[Harry Smith]

in the Olympics politics is put aside, Argentina went to London, if they was thinking politics they wouldn't have attended, thats the beauty

other points include, it will do no good

trade and diplomatic relationships are very important

you could do more attending

dont ruin it for the athletes and people like me that want to attend

If Olympics puts politics aside how came South Africa were banned for 40 years?

[britishboy]

If Olympics puts politics aside how came South Africa were banned for 40 years?

dance around it as much as you want if Beijing can host an unforgettable Olympics so can Russia and nice avoiding my other points

[Harry Smith]

dance around it as much as you want if Beijing can host an unforgettable Olympics so can Russia and nice avoiding my other points

The Olympics isn't about trade routes, we have a workable relationship with the Russians, trade isn't an issue. It's not an economic community, it won't lead to a free trade deal so no the Olympics doesn't help or hinder trade.

Me dancing around? You the one who still hasn't answered the quesiton about South Africa?

Your whole theory is that the Olympics is separate from politics, yet South Africa were banned due to their political policies-that doesn't add up

We boycotted South Africa for their racist policies, do you agree with that fact?

[britishboy]

The Olympics isn't about trade routes, we have a workable relationship with the Russians, trade isn't an issue. It's not an economic community, it won't lead to a free trade deal so no the Olympics doesn't help or hinder trade.

Me dancing around? You the one who still hasn't answered the quesiton about South Africa?

Your whole theory is that the Olympics is separate from politics, yet South Africa were banned due to their political policies-that doesn't add up

We boycotted South Africa for their racist policies, do you agree with that fact?

long story short were going, if south Africa disagreed with what the Olympics stands for it should be banned and China is worse than Russia and they held an unforgettable Olympics.

I want to go the country is going end of

[Harry Smith]

long story short were going, if south Africa disagreed with what the Olympics stands for it should be banned and China is worse than Russia and they held an unforgettable Olympics.

I want to go the country is going end of

ahaha the hallmark of defeat, your whole argument hinged on separation from politics when in fact the Olympics has been political for the last 100 years.

The Russian home minister said that foreigns would be arrested under these laws for trying to 'promote' it, that's censorship and it puts LGBT fans and athletes at risk from arrest or even death.

Game set match?

[britishboy]

ahaha the hallmark of defeat, your whole argument hinged on separation from politics when in fact the Olympics has been political for the last 100 years. Game set match?

awww harry you remind me of my gfs little brother I did give other reasons, but you ignored them, dont worry if I go to Russia I'll send you some photos:D no one cares its not a big deal and there are more important things

[Harry Smith]

no one cares its not a big deal and there are more important things

The argument used to stop civil rights, gay marriage and any other general progress in the world, this is an extremely important issue and the very fact that you made a thread about it shows how much of a hypocrite you are.

Your only remaining argument is well nothing, you stuck on to the stupid separating point until it was well annulled now you claim it's not important... very convenient?

[Tarannosaurus]

awww harry you remind me of my gfs little brother I did give other reasons, but you ignored them, dont worry if I go to Russia I'll send you some photos:D no one cares its not a big deal and there are more important things

Oooh personal attacks. That's usually what happens when people realise they're losing. All I've seen is you repeating the same things over and over again even when people give counter arguments. It's not a big deal to you which is frankly a little terrifying. How is murder and torture not a big deal? I'm sure the thousands of gay Russias care, as do their relatives and thousands of other people around the world care too.

[britishboy]

The argument used to stop civil rights, gay marriage and any other general progress in the world, this is an extremely important issue and the very fact that you made a thread about it shows how much of a hypocrite you are.

Your only remaining argument is well nothing, you stuck on to the stupid separating point until it was well annulled now you claim it's not important... very convenient?

ok harry this is the only thing in this post so you cant avoid it

other points include, it will do no good

trade and diplomatic relationships are very important

you could do more attending

dont ruin it for the athletes and people like me that want to attend

Oooh personal attacks. That's usually what happens when people realise they're losing. All I've seen is you repeating the same things over and over again even when people give counter arguments. It's not a big deal to you which is frankly a little terrifying. How is murder and torture not a big deal? I'm sure the thousands of gay Russias care, as do their relatives and thousands of other people around the world care too.

ok...... what the murder and torture is illegal...

[Tarannosaurus]

ok...... what the murder and torture is illegal...

And yet still happening with the support of the police.

[Harry Smith]

ok harry this is the only thing in this post so you cant avoid it

other points include, it will do no good

trade and diplomatic relationships are very important

you could do more attending

dont ruin it for the athletes and people like me that want to attend

Trade and diplomacy with Russia are bad enough because of Syria, the Olympics does nothing to help with diplomacy. It's failed to stop the sanctions on NK or Iran, by your theory we should of held an Olympics to stop the Cuban missile crisis. We need to focus on building our trade links in southern america and other emerging markets not russia...

No we couldn't, us not going shows that we don't do half and half. Sometimes you need full measures-look the Indian PM and Canadian PM have boycotted the Commonwealth summit this week showing the power of a boycott.

Athletes or gay teens dying, which one is more important in the grand scheme. The south African boycott damaged their cricket team which was bad but it showed the world we take racism seriously. The pro's of a boycott outweigh the cons

[britishboy]

And yet still happening with the support of the police.

I doubt that however again every country has bad police within the ranks

[Emerald Dream]

Alright, this has gotten to the point of obnoxious. We aren't even talking about debating points anymore, and the seemingly endless habit of personal jabs is causing this thread to be locked. :locked: