What to do with Africa?

[britishboy]

Should we help? If so how?

I don't think we should for a few reasons

Firstly the there's enough food to go around argument dosent take into account most people enjoy wasting food, large buffets ect

Secondly there MUST be a rich and a poor, it is better for us to be the rich ones

Thirdly every penny spent there wont return and in a time of cuts, that money should be spent more wisely

[ksdnfkfr]

What countries on the continent of Africa are you referring to?

Firstly, how does destitute/starving people in certain countries on the continent of Africa help benefit "us".

Secondly, who is "us"? The millionaires? The billionaires? Do you really feel that you are so well off that the CEO mentality of "more for me, less for you" is befitting you? Of course the irony is that their greed is helping impoverished nations because they can pay 20 of them with the amount of money it takes to pay one of us.

Thirdly, what about all the pennies spent on things like going to war with Iraq? Was that a more wise investment then feeding little kids who are starving to death?

[britishboy]

What countries on the continent of Africa are you referring to?

Firstly, how does destitute/starving people in certain countries on the continent of Africa help benefit "us".

Secondly, who is "us"? The millionaires? The billionaires? Do you really feel that you are so well off that the CEO mentality of "more for me, less for you" is befitting you? Of course the irony is that their greed is helping impoverished nations because they can pay 20 of them with the amount of money it takes to pay one of us.

Thirdly, what about all the pennies spent on things like going to war with Iraq? Was that a more wise investment then feeding little kids who are starving to death?

By us I mean our countries

Destroying a national threat yes it was money well spent, but they didn't have nukes.

As I said we get no return from feeding them

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

So, what you're saying is:

1. Don't give food to the hungry cause you wanna get fat.

2. Your second argument is pretty much the same as your first. You don't want to give anything to the people that need just cause you wanna have more for yourself.

3. You'd rather bomb people rather than help the needy.

That's the gist of it, right?

My two cents:
The hoarding of money, resources and wasting of food is probably why so many people hate us. If you can make do without something, you should give it to someone who really needs it, not waste it just cause you want a little bite of everything. That's just cruel and inhumane.

The only thing that should be cut is our defense budget. The money we're overspending on it is ridiculous. If we cut it, maybe we wouldn't have any debt crises over stuff that's actually good for the average human being ( read: no more idiocy like the shutdown over Obamacare ) .

[britishboy]

So, what you're saying is:

1. Don't give food to the hungry cause you wanna get fat.

2. Your second argument is pretty much the same as your first. You don't want to give anything to the people that need just cause you wanna have more for yourself.

3. You'd rather bomb people rather than help the needy.

That's the gist of it, right?

My two cents:
The hoarding of money, resources and wasting of food is probably why so many people hate us. If you can make do without something, you should give it to someone who really needs it, not waste it just cause you want a little bite of everything. That's just cruel and inhumane.

The only thing that should be cut is our defense budget. The money we're overspending on it is ridiculous. If we cut it, maybe we wouldn't have any debt crises over stuff that's actually good for the average human being ( read: no more idiocy like the shutdown over Obamacare ) .

yes, do you not enjoy your lifestyle?

the US economy is another matter but if its bad, keep money for yourself

[Harry Smith]

Should we help? If so how?

I don't think we should for a few reasons

Firstly the there's enough food to go around argument dosent take into account most people enjoy wasting food, large buffets ect

Secondly there MUST be a rich and a poor, it is better for us to be the rich ones

Thirdly every penny spent there wont return and in a time of cuts, that money should be spent more wisely

I believe the term is trololol.

Yes we should help, considering it was the British who fucked it over. We went over there, forced our religion and culture onto them and pillaged their land of all their resources and sold them- guess who kept the profit- Britain.

Poverty isn't needed for development, the argument that their must be rich and poor is complete bollocks. The cycle of wealth suggests that a region needs money invested into it in order to develop- so if people live in poverty the area doesn't develop.

The simple answer is to cancel debts- there are not going to be able to pay back trillions dollars of debt and then be expected to look after their own people. If you get rid of the debt then they can focus.

International aid has worked for the last 60 years, guess how Britain and Europe developed after WW2- Aid from America. That's what your forgetting-without foreign aid in 1948 we would be fucked.

The food argument actually shows that we have enough resources to sustain about 9 billion people on the earth is we manage it well.

People don't enjoy wasting food- look at the 1950's people would grow their own and not throw anything away, it's modern consumer culture.

I would ask you to show some compassion for the amount of death in the reason but I doubt that will work because well everyone knows your reputation

Technical points- Africa isn't a country. It's a continent. Several African countries are very developed such as South Africa and Kenya. A penny will return- that's a very broad incorrect statment. Rich and Poor isn't an economic term. It's far too broad

[britishboy]

The simple answer is to cancel debts- there are not going to be able to pay back trillions dollars of debt and then be expected to look after their own people. If you get rid of the debt then they can focus.


I'll answer the rest later but I want to go out, you can't just cancel debts that would be unfair, you think if we could cancel our debts we would?

also they have a terrible crime rate, continentally.

also do you want to live on rations? no. so be grateful your here, and btw Britian isn't as awesome as we all think, there are lazy people completely dependant on welfare using up our resources, we should fix ourselves, pay off all dept and wait untill the economy is stable. ( I know it us growing but for all we know labour could get in and destroy it or it just falls back, the economy must be stable)

[Harry Smith]

I'll answer the rest later but I want to go out, you can't just cancel debts that would be unfair, you think if we could cancel our debts we would?

also they have a terrible crime rate, continentally.

also do you want to live on rations? no. so be grateful your here, and btw Britian isn't as awesome as we all think, there are lazy people completely dependant on welfare using up our resources, we should fix ourselves, pay off all dept and wait untill the economy is stable. ( I know it us growing but for all we know labour could get in and destroy it or it just falls back, the economy must be stable)

We have cancelled our debt- the G8 agreed it back in 2005 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4084574.stm

Be grateful? That's a bit rude. I'm not grateful of child poverty. Sending aid to Africa won't cause us to live off rations at all in any possible way.

Labour will not destroy the economy- the conservatives are the one who have increased VAT to 20%, 1 million young people out of work, wages going down prices going up. Labour didn't destroy the economy- the bankers did.

Their crime rate is no worse than southern america or the Caribbean, if they have more money they can fight crime. You can't complain about high crime rates whilst supporting the countries remaining broken.

[thatcountrykid]

I totally agree. We dont need to be providing aid to africa especially places like Somalia. Money needs to be spent on the homefront. Fix our own problems. Pay for our wars.

[britishboy]

I totally agree. We dont need to be providing aid to africa especially places like Somalia. Money needs to be spent on the homefront. Fix our own problems. Pay for our wars.

yep we should fix ourselves before we fix others

[Harry Smith]

I totally agree. We dont need to be providing aid to africa especially places like Somalia. Money needs to be spent on the homefront. Fix our own problems. Pay for our wars.

Yeah everyone loves paying for foreign wars

yep we should fix ourselves before we fix others

Once again 1945- where do you think we got our money from after the war. You talk about us fixing our own problems first yet your happy for us to commit our-self to foreign wars, that's a bit hypercritical isn't it? We play the world police when it suits us and then we duck out when it doesn't. It looks like your idea of foreign policy would be fix Iraq and Afganistans problems but don't fix Africa's.

We caused the majority of Africa's problems so we should fix it

[britishboy]

Yeah everyone loves paying for foreign wars



Once again 1945- where do you think we got our money from after the war. You talk about us fixing our own problems first yet your happy for us to commit our-self to foreign wars, that's a bit hypercritical isn't it? We play the world police when it suits us and then we duck out when it doesn't. It looks like your idea of foreign policy would be fix Iraq and Afganistans problems but don't fix Africa's.

We caused the majority of Africa's problems so we should fix it

what are you yapping on about? we should fix our selves before we attempt to fix others

[teen.jpg]

I'm pretty sure an entire continent isn't in need of our help. I hope your referring to specific regions with this.

[Cygnus]

Africa is a whole continent, so you need to go country by country. Harry did give a good solution, since right now there is more imaginary money floating around than there actually is money in the world, so canceling the debts could help with some things, also, leave Somalia alone from the military. Appart from that I guess certain rich countries can concentrate on aiding certain other countries that share their language since that would make communication much easier.

yes, do you not enjoy your lifestyle?


According to you, you are rich, yet you are not humble at all, there are people that need money way more than you do.

[Harry Smith]

what are you yapping on about? we should fix our selves before we attempt to fix others

I'm talking about how your whole argument is very hypocritical.

If we should fix Britain first then why do we spend Billions of foreign wars helping to 'fix' other countries. Iraq,Libya,Afghanistan, Syria. You can't talk about fixing our self first whilst supporting foreign wars that don't have anything to do with Britain.

Cancel the Debt and get rid of the 21st centuries chains which are stopping Africa from developing

[britishboy]

Africa is a whole continent, so you need to go country by country. Harry did give a good solution, since right now there is more imaginary money floating around than there actually is money in the world, so canceling the debts could help with some things, also, leave Somalia alone from the military. Appart from that I guess certain rich countries can concentrate on aiding certain other countries that share their language since that would make communication much easier.



According to you, you are rich, yet you are not humble at all, there are people that need money way more than you do.

yes, we could cancel their debts, the main problem is crime and corruption and lack of foreign investment

I believe we should fix our own countries before we fix others, also if were going to help we should hit root causes

I do support charities, I'm not evil Help for Heros and Cancer Research UK I support, maybe a red cross appeal

[Harry Smith]

yes, we could cancel their debts, the main problem is crime and corruption and lack of foreign investment

I believe we should fix our own countries before we fix others, also if were going to help we should hit root causes

I do support charities, I'm not evil Help for Heros and Cancer Research UK I support, maybe a red cross appeal

you can't just cancel debts that would be unfair, you think if we could cancel our debts we would?

I'm glad that your view has changed so rapidly on debt cancellation, these threads are actually doing something at least.

Once again if you want to fix Britain first why do we spend billions on foreign wars?

[Sugaree]

Secondly there MUST be a rich and a poor, it is better for us to be the rich ones



There doesn't HAVE to be rich and poor. There doesn't NEED to be a balance between the two. No one NEEDS to be rich and no one NEEDS to be poor.

There HAS to be a rich and a poor class? We can all be rich if we strive for it. It's unfortunate that there are poor people out there, yes; but does that mean they HAVE to be there to preserve your security blanket system of economics? Hell no. I don't believe in just giving them big handouts of money, but I also don't believe in kicking dirt in their face like you obviously do just because they can't afford that new iPod like YOU can. Maybe once you get older, and learn a bit of compassion for others, you'll realize something.

-edited. -Emerald Dream

[britishboy]

You're an idiot. There doesn't HAVE to be rich and poor. There doesn't NEED to be a balance between the two. No one NEEDS to be rich and no one NEEDS to be poor. Holy shit, you've got to be the dullest knife in the drawer.

actually there does, we will never be 100% equal (it's for the best) relax, dont get so annoyed, I think people should work hard and get money instead of complaining at the system

[Harry Smith]

actually there does, we will never be 100% equal (it's for the best) relax, dont get so annoyed, I think people should work hard and get money instead of complaining at the system

and the Jews should of stopped complaining as they were forced onto the train. Also people would probably relax if you didn't make such colourful comments

[thatcountrykid]

Yeah everyone loves paying for foreign wars



Once again 1945- where do you think we got our money from after the war. You talk about us fixing our own problems first yet your happy for us to commit our-self to foreign wars, that's a bit hypercritical isn't it? We play the world police when it suits us and then we duck out when it doesn't. It looks like your idea of foreign policy would be fix Iraq and Afganistans problems but don't fix Africa's.

We caused the majority of Africa's problems so we should fix it

We are the worlds police. Not the worlds soup kitchen. We enforce the laws an rules. We dont give handouts.

[britishboy]

We are the worlds police. Not the worlds soup kitchen. We enforce the laws an rules. We dont give handouts.

very true

[Sugaree]

actually there does, we will never be 100% equal (it's for the best) relax, dont get so annoyed, I think people should work hard and get money instead of complaining at the system

All the Pakistanis and Yemenis getting drone strike'd by the United States shouldn't complain then. That's just the system. All the Jews shouldn't have complained when they were forced onto the trains to Auschwitz. That was just the system. All the Rwandans that were killed in the '94 genocide should have just accepted it. That was the system.

Do you not see the flaw of your argument? Just because a system is in place does not make it perfect, nor does it make it the best. You don't even bother to mention any flaws in your system, and if anyone DOES mention a flaw, you go apeshit. So what's it going to take to make you realize that your system doesn't work out every single damn time like you say it does?

[Harry Smith]

We are the worlds police. Not the worlds soup kitchen. We enforce the laws an rules. We dont give handouts.

very true

Yeah sure, what was the world police doing in 1980's when Saddam Hussein gassed his own citizens- oh yeah the US were supporting him.

America does give handouts- ever heard of Israel?

[britishboy]

All the Pakistanis and Yemenis getting drone strike'd by the United States shouldn't complain then. That's just the system. All the Jews shouldn't have complained when they were forced onto the trains to Auschwitz. That was just the system. All the Rwandans that were killed in the '94 genocide should have just accepted it. That was the system.

Do you not see the flaw of your argument? Just because a system is in place does not make it perfect, nor does it make it the best. You don't even bother to mention any flaws in your system, and if anyone DOES mention a flaw, you go apeshit. So what's it going to take to make you realize that your system doesn't work out every single damn time like you say it does?

capitalism isn't perfect, and I didn't say people should campaign against anything because every problem is different and unique.

[thatcountrykid]

Yeah sure, what was the world police doing in 1980's when Saddam Hussein gassed his own citizens- oh yeah the US were supporting him.

America does give handouts- ever heard of Israel?

Israel is useful to us. And saddam got what he deserved.

[Emerald Dream]

Is this thread about whether or not to help Africa, or whether or not Britain/USA should be policing around the world?

Because right now I am confused. You are off on so many tangents that I am close to locking this.

[Harry Smith]

actually there does, we will never be 100% equal (it's for the best) relax, dont get so annoyed, I think people should work hard and get money instead of complaining at the system

Yes we can be 100% equal legally, that's possible. You can't reject something based on something that I'm sure the Nazis would be happy to call their own. I think the majority of Africans work a lot harder than you or me every day to earn one dollar. You would have to be pretty stupid to suggest that a child that has to walk 20 miles for water doesn't have to work hard

capitalism isn't perfect, and I didn't say people should campaign against anything because every problem is different and unique.

Of course it isn't, the whole financial crash has showed that, this problem is unique in that it was started by Britain so Britain should be leading the way in fixing it

[Emerald Dream]

Unless this thread gets back to and stays on the original topic of whether or not to feed Africa, it will be locked. The threads in ROTW are not here for everyone to get their random points in from other discussions or whatever is on their mind, in order to steer conversations in totally unrelated directions or weird tangents.

[britishboy]

back on topic:

I think we must fix ourselves before helping others.

in the same way if you find a man injuries, before you apply first aid make sure you are fine and there is no health hazard that could hurt you.

-edited. Stay on topic. -Emerald Dream

[sqishy]

Give the poor countries aid in the form of food/water and money, without asking for something in return.
Then leave the damn continent alone. What is with people wanting to invade other people's places ?!

[britishboy]

-edited. Unnecessary. -Emerald Dream.

Give the poor countries aid in the form of food/water and money, without asking for something in return.
Then leave the damn continent alone. What is with people wanting to invade other people's places ?!

food and water will not take out root problems and I don't know? human right abuses? terrorism threatening our safety, nobody likes war and nobody wins but don't make it sound like the governments get bored so declare war

[sqishy]

aww your going to make me cry, but you haven't denied my point is true, work hard and be rewarded



food and water will not take out root problems and I don't know? human right abuses? terrorism threatening our safety, nobody likes war and nobody wins but don't make it sound like the governments get bored so declare war

Stepping into others' situations only makes things more complicated. We decided how to approach others when their situations affect ours directly.

[britishboy]

Stepping into others' situations only makes things more complicated. We decided how to approach others when their situations affect ours directly.

what do you mean? what would you do if it affects us? and you cant turn a blind eye on certain things, your British right? imagine if we was invaded and we was victims if human rights abuses, we would expect the help of all allies, France, Germany and the US etc

[CharlieHorse]

I honestly think that people will start to move away from Africa, and/or people in Africa won't have kids due to lack of resources and the population will drop immensely until it's practically a wasteland.
Then the people still there will revert back to tribal societies.

[sqishy]

what do you mean? what would you do if it affects us? and you cant turn a blind eye on certain things, your British right? imagine if we was invaded and we was victims if human rights abuses, we would expect the help of all allies, France, Germany and the US etc


I'm not British...?

We help people where we can, but we make sure we don't control them.

[britishboy]

I'm not British...?

We help people where we can, but we make sure we don't control them.

I just noticed your Irish:D same example goes for Ireland though

fair enough, I agree, fix the problem and leave

this is where we may differ, what to do with an enemy?

I honestly think that people will start to move away from Africa, and/or people in Africa won't have kids due to lack of resources and the population will drop immensely until it's practically a wasteland.
Then the people still there will revert back to tribal societies.

I disagree if you have even a little money its a beautiful country and you can employ loads of staff because of low wages and as for the poor, they have like 6 kids, its the culture and also because they cant afford condoms, thats also why HIV is so common

[YOUR BROTHER]

Well I thing that its wise to help people in other countries so if you don't want that ur prob sooo idk

[Harry Smith]

people should work hard and then laugh at the poor people:D

Normally I would be surprised but you are the joke of this forum

But that's just my rant

The people in Africa work hard, that's proven. They work hard ever day just to survive, heck the two year old child has to work extremely hard just to breath.

The answer with Africa is to cancel the billions of dollars of debt and then let them improve their social conditions. The western world is part of the problem and also part of the solution

[britishboy]

Normally I would be surprised but you are the joke of this forum

But that's just my rant

The people in Africa work hard, that's proven. They work hard ever day just to survive, heck the two year old child has to work extremely hard just to breath.

The answer with Africa is to cancel the billions of dollars of debt and then let them improve their social conditions. The western world is part of the problem and also part of the solution

rant on, work hard and drown in the rewards, thats my personal motto don't like it dont

if they owe money to us, I'm fine with us canceling the debt.

while I commend you for recognizing root problems, there are others, law is very hard to enforce, and the law isnt very nice (gay sex is an imprionable offence in one African country (maybe more) and the people themselves will lynch any gay man, thats a sign on how bad law enforcement is

corruption in the leaders is also a problem

[Harry Smith]

rant on, work hard and drown in the rewards, thats my personal motto don't like it dont

if they owe money to us, I'm fine with us canceling the debt.

while I commend you for recognizing root problems, there are others, law is very hard to enforce, and the law isnt very nice (gay sex is an imprionable offence in one African country (maybe more) and the people themselves will lynch any gay man, thats a sign on how bad law enforcement is

corruption in the leaders is also a problem

It's not a question of hard work-your worse than David Cameron. The whole hard work motto is bloody stupid when you've got people being passed down wealth and titles in Britain. As I've said you can work hard all your life that doesn't ensure success. The farmer in Africa works a lot harder than you do- I can guarantee that.

That's not related to poverty in Africa, the middle east has much more anti-gay laws than the majority of African countries. The root of the problem isn't gay rights the root of the problem is the western world and companies which profit of poverty

[britishboy]

It's not a question of hard work-your worse than David Cameron. The whole hard work motto is bloody stupid when you've got people being passed down wealth and titles in Britain. As I've said you can work hard all your life that doesn't ensure success. The farmer in Africa works a lot harder than you do- I can guarantee that.


it's my own personal motto, more should have really

That's not related to poverty in Africa, the middle east has much more anti-gay laws than the majority of African countries. The root of the problem isn't gay rights the root of the problem is the western world and companies which profit of poverty

no but the terrible high crime rate is, corrupt and brutal law enforcement and everything is fair trade now, it's not like we want them to suffer

and they dont work hard, they do the same thing every day, they should migrate to a city, educate themselves and try, if you never stop trying and believing, everyone can be a success

[Vlerchan]

"Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well-warmed, and well-fed." —Herman Melville

I'm just going to leave this quote here. I'm not sure if I really want to get into this discussion. Not after what I've read so far of it, anyway.

[Luminous]

Personally, I think the line "Eat your food, there are starving children in Africa" is WAY overused. It's overused to the point where less people care. Of course, if you personally can help, you should help. There are multiple charities you can donate to, I believe. But is it really America's or any other country's responsibility? I do not know of any sort of debt to Africa that any certain country has, if there is any (and there very well could be!) then perhaps, in certain circumstances (like if America stole food or money etc from Africa) then we owe them something. But asking if a country should completely feed another country seems a little much to me.

[Rascaldog24]

What about the homeless people on the street corners? What about that family that can't buy a car to get to work cause they have no money? We need to get our problems fixed before we try to help others

[Harry Smith]

Personally, I think the line "Eat your food, there are starving children in Africa" is WAY overused. It's overused to the point where less people care. Of course, if you personally can help, you should help. There are multiple charities you can donate to, I believe. But is it really America's or any other country's responsibility? I do not know of any sort of debt to Africa that any certain country has, if there is any (and there very well could be!) then perhaps, in certain circumstances (like if America stole food or money etc from Africa) then we owe them something. But asking if a country should completely feed another country seems a little much to me.

But the problem is that America have caused about 30% of the problems in Africa. America and other western countries have been profiting off Africa for the last 100 years

What about the homeless people on the street corners? What about that family that can't buy a car to get to work cause they have no money? We need to get our problems fixed before we try to help others

I'm not saying give up on them either, it's funny to see this argument be presented as America deploys troops abroad to fix 'Afghanistan' or 'Iraq'

it's my own personal motto, more should have really


no but the terrible high crime rate is, corrupt and brutal law enforcement and everything is fair trade now, it's not like we want them to suffer

and they dont work hard, they do the same thing every day, they should migrate to a city, educate themselves and try, if you never stop trying and believing, everyone can be a success

Many South American countries have a much higher crime rate than Africa. And countries which do have high crime rates tend to be focused on the urban centres where in fact the problem with Africa is the rural areas.

and they dont work hard, they do the same thing every day

Hard work isn't doing something different every day...

It's not as simple as moving to a city- you act like your some sort of ulter human who always knows what someone in Africa should do to succeed. They can't get to urban centres because in countries like congo they're about 100 miles away and someone earning a dollar a week can't afford a car can they?

I know you claim to do 'economics' but surely you understand that areas in Africa don't have good education facilities because their isn't any wealth. It's not as simple as going to city and getting an education- your starting to sound like a southern slave owner

if you never stop trying and believing, everyone can be a success

This isn't glee- this is the real world. -edited. Unnecessary. -Emerald Dream.

[Luminous]

But the problem is that America have caused about 30% of the problems in Africa. America and other western countries have been profiting off Africa for the last 100 years

I see. I didn't know that.

[Harry Smith]

I see. I didn't know that.

That's the generally interesting thing with Africa is that a lot of the problems were caused by countries like Britain which is why I feel we should be part of the solution in the region

[Luminous]

That's the generally interesting thing with Africa is that a lot of the problems were caused by countries like Britain which is why I feel we should be part of the solution in the region
Knowing now that we caused their problems, yes I think we should help.

[Dark Unicorn]

So I think we need an African's perspective.As it turns out I've been in Africa all my life and know lots more cause I stay here and must say your research and passion are highly commendable.Truth is there is a lot of poverty here.I stay in Zimbabwe which isn't half as bad as countries like Uganda even though our economy is terrible right now.I stay in a nice neighbourhood and go to a really good school but I can't say the same for everyone so even though we are not particularly wealthy,my friend and I are working on something to help the less fortunate.Corruption runs rampant true,but A LOT of people work extra hard to earn a living and getting an education is emphasised here to have some degree of security for your future.People in rural areas are the ones that are most affected many of them not having electricity,a clean water source,tarred roads and paying as little as $5 for school fees.Question is,for not just Africa but India,the Middle East and any other impoverished places,should we really neglect our human responsibility to help the less fortunate just because they are not in our country?Aren't we all Earth inhabitants?Should these hard-working citizens have to suffer because of their governments?

[britishboy]

So I think we need an African's perspective.As it turns out I've been in Africa all my life and know lots more cause I stay here and must say your research and passion are highly commendable.Truth is there is a lot of poverty here.I stay in Zimbabwe which isn't half as bad as countries like Uganda even though our economy is terrible right now.I stay in a nice neighbourhood and go to a really good school but I can't say the same for everyone so even though we are not particularly wealthy,my friend and I are working on something to help the less fortunate.Corruption runs rampant true,but A LOT of people work extra hard to earn a living and getting an education is emphasised here to have some degree of security for your future.People in rural areas are the ones that are most affected many of them not having electricity,a clean water source,tarred roads and paying as little as $5 for school fees.Question is,for not just Africa but India,the Middle East and any other impoverished places,should we really neglect our human responsibility to help the less fortunate just because they are not in our country?Aren't we all Earth inhabitants?Should these hard-working citizens have to suffer because of their governments?

I believe we should cut foreign aid towards our own country as our country has its own problems. what, as an African, do you think are the root causes?

[StoppingTime]

I believe we should cut foreign aid towards our own country as our country has its own problems. what, as an African, do you think are the root causes?

cut foreign aid towards our own country
cut foreign aid towards our own country
cut foreign aid towards our own country

And this is why these threads are no longer debates, but just back-and-forth meaningless arguments

[britishboy]

And this is why these threads are no longer debates, but just back-and-forth meaningless arguments

I thought it all sounded a bit repetitive:D

[martogogo]

leave it alone, lets they will decide what they want. :)

[Harry Smith]

I believe we should cut foreign aid towards our own country as our country has its own problems. what, as an African, do you think are the root causes?

I love how your response to a pretty good essay by an African person is to cut the amount of money that we give them. Can you please tell me how you can support foreign wars whilst pumping about this bullshit about fixing our own problems? We fucked up these African countries but then now we pull out because it's too difficult?

By your theory we should leave the UN, NATO and the G20 because we need to fix our own problems. Your arguing a theory which is about 70 years out of date

I thought it all sounded a bit repetitive:D

It did, you've really failed to present a good argument and you've flip flopped over the issue of debt cancelling. All it seems to be is your repeating yourself without actually justifying it at all

[darthearth]

I think private philanthropy could do wonders. I see much promise for tourism industry in many of these impoverished areas.

Highly recommend people look at this:

http://www.industrytap.com/flipping-the-light-switch-for-two-billion-people-off-the-grid/11047

[britishboy]

Africa has brilliant places for holidays however most dont leave the hotels or beaches so give nothing to rhe locals

[Ozymandias]

Hi Chiedza,

I fail to understand how can you compare the poor african countries with the Arab countries and India. Do you know there is such a massive difference in their respective economics? Let's compare countries based on facts and not stupid stereotypes.

According to the UN, based on GDP measures, India is the 9th richest country in the world, Turkey is 18th, Saudi Arabia is the 20th. And, coming to the African countries, allow me to inform you that Ugana is at 103! And Zimbabwe... THAT'S 134TH!

It's a very sincere request that you don't participate in such important debates with baseless facts. I am sure you can act politically correct, but the facts always catch you.

--

As rightly said by Harry, the big boys took Africa's natural resources. The Africans tried to retaliate. But you can't fight the big boys, right? And hence, we have wars. And you don't want rest of the world hating you, hence, you introduce 'aid'.

'Leave and let live' - that's what you should do with Africa. Stop harassing the weak, leave them and let them play their own flute!

Good luck.

So I think we need an African's perspective.As it turns out I've been in Africa all my life and know lots more cause I stay here and must say your research and passion are highly commendable.Truth is there is a lot of poverty here.I stay in Zimbabwe which isn't half as bad as countries like Uganda even though our economy is terrible right now.I stay in a nice neighbourhood and go to a really good school but I can't say the same for everyone so even though we are not particularly wealthy,my friend and I are working on something to help the less fortunate.Corruption runs rampant true,but A LOT of people work extra hard to earn a living and getting an education is emphasised here to have some degree of security for your future.People in rural areas are the ones that are most affected many of them not having electricity,a clean water source,tarred roads and paying as little as $5 for school fees.Question is,for not just Africa but India,the Middle East and any other impoverished places,should we really neglect our human responsibility to help the less fortunate just because they are not in our country?Aren't we all Earth inhabitants?Should these hard-working citizens have to suffer because of their governments?

[whatsgoinon53]

Should we help? If so how?

I don't think we should for a few reasons

Firstly the there's enough food to go around argument dosent take into account most people enjoy wasting food, large buffets ect

Secondly there MUST be a rich and a poor, it is better for us to be the rich ones

Thirdly every penny spent there wont return and in a time of cuts, that money should be spent more wisely

Right now, my family and I are almost at the end of our commitment to help out, in a small African country called Uganda for 12 months. It's been an absoutely amazing time for all of us and we've learned so much...

Bullshit there must be a rich and a poor, and bullshit that it's better for us to be the rich ones. Yes this is the way the world turned out but that doesn't mean it's too late to change the future! While the 'western world' sits in the high-business flight lounges snacking on a sandwich complaining about the fucking financial reviews, Africa's sitting on the muddy ground which is probably ridden with cow shit, eating a banana and feeling happy as larry. So don't tell me that Africa can't be as rich as us 'westerners'.

The waste of food is the only thing I think you were right about. I still struggle to comprehend your thought process because everything else you said is rubbish. I don't understand why you think that Africans shouldn't be able to experience the pleasures of life that we do. Even the waste. Why can't they be able to have that privilege instead of picking scraps of food out of other's waste?

I'm done

[britishboy]

Right now, my family and I are almost at the end of our commitment to help out, in a small African country called Uganda for 12 months. It's been an absoutely amazing time for all of us and we've learned so much...

Bullshit there must be a rich and a poor, and bullshit that it's better for us to be the rich ones. Yes this is the way the world turned out but that doesn't mean it's too late to change the future! While the 'western world' sits in the high-business flight lounges snacking on a sandwich complaining about the fucking financial reviews, Africa's sitting on the muddy ground which is probably ridden with cow shit, eating a banana and feeling happy as larry. So don't tell me that Africa can't be as rich as us 'westerners'.

The waste of food is the only thing I think you were right about. I still struggle to comprehend your thought process because everything else you said is rubbish. I don't understand why you think that Africans shouldn't be able to experience the pleasures of life that we do. Even the waste. Why can't they be able to have that privilege instead of picking scraps of food out of other's waste?

I'm done

I'm not staying dont help, just dont spend our tax on it. also Africans can be rich, they're capitalist like us, they just are unlikely to find the opportunitie. unless you suggest we ration our food, and the whole world does, food wastage is unavoidable

also I like being able to be picky, dont you?

also dont give them food or water, instead tackle root causes

[whatsgoinon53]

I'm not staying dont help, just dont spend our tax on it. also Africans can be rich, they're capitalist like us, they just are unlikely to find the opportunitie. unless you suggest we ration our food, and the whole world does, food wastage is unavoidable

also I like being able to be picky, dont you?

also dont give them food or water, instead tackle root causes

But it will pay off if we sacrifice our own resources for them! We pay millions of dollars on taxes every year and governments are greedy enough to invest every last penny into their own country.

Food and water, in my opinion, are still things we need to donate while tackling root causes. I haven't been able to use tap water whatsoever here in Uganda because it's filled with cholera and potentially other diseases. Good, clean, healthy water is just what the starving and thirsty people of Africa need. You need to see it with you own eyes, I think, to be able to understand what I'm saying!

[britishboy]

But it will pay off if we sacrifice our own resources for them! We pay millions of dollars on taxes every year and governments are greedy enough to invest every last penny into their own country.

Food and water, in my opinion, are still things we need to donate while tackling root causes. I haven't been able to use tap water whatsoever here in Uganda because it's filled with cholera and potentially other diseases. Good, clean, healthy water is just what the starving and thirsty people of Africa need. You need to see it with you own eyes, I think, to be able to understand what I'm saying!

greedy governments? they serve us and our interests. hospitals are being cut, a+es are closing, police numbers are reduced, why when we cut so much of our own should we give away resources

[Harry Smith]

greedy governments? they serve us and our interests. hospitals are being cut, a+es are closing, police numbers are reduced, why when we cut so much of our own should we give away resources

1) Because we've caused the problems in Africa
2) We have a moral duty to help starving children
3) We've spend billions on foreign wars, that's what needs to be cut.

As I've said countless times, Britain and Europe was rebuilt by American tax money after the war- we were happy to accept it weren't we? You've got such a narrow view of the world, it's not just about what's best for Britain- the last thing we need is nationalistic rhetoric

You also seem to think we would need to ration our food to help Africa- that's simply not true. Africa has the opportunity to produce it's own food it just needs the support along with the infrastructure.

instead tackle root causes

You keep talking about the root cause- the root cause of problems in Africa is Britain and other colonialist powers

Yes the government serve our interests. That doesn't mean they're not corrupt, you've got MP's spending thousands of pounds on making sure that they have a moat around their house. That's a waste of money.

[whatsgoinon53]

1) Because we've caused the problems in Africa
2) We have a moral duty to help starving children
3) We've spend billions on foreign wars, that's what needs to be cut.

As I've said countless times, Britain and Europe was rebuilt by American tax money after the war- we were happy to accept it weren't we? You've got such a narrow view of the world, it's not just about what's best for Britain- the last thing we need is nationalistic rhetoric

You also seem to think we would need to ration our food to help Africa- that's simply not true. Africa has the opportunity to produce it's own food it just needs the support along with the infrastructure.



You keep talking about the root cause- the root cause of problems in Africa is Britain and other colonialist powers

Yes the government serve our interests. That doesn't mean they're not corrupt, you've got MP's spending thousands of pounds on making sure that they have a moat around their house. That's a waste of money.

I agree. Our governments serve their own countries and couldn't care less about countries like Uganda! The waste in our precious 'western world' is so, so unnecessary and simply ridiculous.

greedy governments? they serve us and our interests. hospitals are being cut, a+es are closing, police numbers are reduced, why when we cut so much of our own should we give away resources

Yes greedy governments! A greedy britishboy even! The only way to help Africa and other 'third world' areas is to become equal to them or to help them become equal to us. Prosperity should not be reserved for just us, it should be shared. For example, the life expectancy here is 56 years old for men and 48 years old for women. Now I don't know what the life expectancy is in Britain or America or Australia - where I'm from - but I know that it's much more than 56! Bad food, bad water, dirty streets; practically horrible resources is the thing that lowers the life expectancy like that. Good food, good water and clean environments PLUS good resources it what's giving us 'westerners' a long life expectancy. Think about it.

[britishboy]

Yes greedy governments! A greedy britishboy even! The only way to help Africa and other 'third world' areas is to become equal to them or to help them become equal to us. Prosperity should not be reserved for just us, it should be shared. For example, the life expectancy here is 56 years old for men and 48 years old for women. Now I don't know what the life expectancy is in Britain or America or Australia - where I'm from - but I know that it's much more than 56! Bad food, bad water, dirty streets; practically horrible resources is the thing that lowers the life expectancy like that. Good food, good water and clean environments PLUS good resources it what's giving us 'westerners' a long life expectancy. Think about it.

give money to a charity then?
greedy governments? they serve their country! if they kept money for themselves they would be greedy, but having their country and national interests at heat is not.

we do not have the resources spare to feed them so charities should focus on root causes

[Harry Smith]

give money to a charity then?
! if they kept money for themselves they would be greedy, but having their country and national interests at heat is not.

we do not have the resources spare to feed them so charities should focus on root causes

We are the root cause. We caused Africa's problems

greedy governments? they serve their country

Just because a government exists doesn't mean it's not greedy. As I've said before look at the many financial scandals that occur within government- some politicians are influenced by greed.

We do have the resources, have you seen how much food we throw away each day- it's been said that we throw away 6 meals every week. You've got supermarkets throwing bucket loads of food away when it's still perfectly fine. We have the money and resources to help, and we should because we caused the problem.

We are the root cause- we were their when it began. That's the definition of root.

This is about the 5th time you've failed to answer the simple question- Why do you support foreign wars that cost billions and achieve nothing yet claim we need to fix our own problems first? Afghanistan is not our problem

[TheBigUnit]

We are the root cause. We caused Africa's problems



Just because a government exists doesn't mean it's not greedy. As I've said before look at the many financial scandals that occur within government- some politicians are influenced by greed.

We do have the resources, have you seen how much food we throw away each day- it's been said that we throw away 6 meals every week. You've got supermarkets throwing bucket loads of food away when it's still perfectly fine. We have the money and resources to help, and we should because we caused the problem.

We are the root cause- we were their when it began. That's the definition of root.

This is about the 5th time you've failed to answer the simple question- Why do you support foreign wars that cost billions and achieve nothing yet claim we need to fix our own problems first? Afghanistan is not our problem
this^^

[Southside]

I see a few of you saying "we dont have the resources or money to help them"..If we can give billions of dollars in aid to the developed country of Israel and give another few billion to Egypt and Pakistan, I think we can help those in Africa out.

If we give them the people over in Africa the right training and equipment to make money of off Africa's thousands of natural resources, they'd be millionaires.

We caused most of the problems over in Africa anyway from the years of imperialism and oppression...

[Yolo2000]

Most of Africa is doing ok. Its just the media always shows deserts and starving children as " Africa " rather than what its really like

[Music Lover]

The farmer in Africa works a lot harder than you do- I can guarantee that.

That depends. There's times that all a farmer in africa does is watch their crops grow and talk with their family. I personally know a person that has done this. But when the time comes, they have to work or not get food. But there's lots of people in Africa. Some are extremely hard working and some will do EVERYTHING to do as little work as possible. (Ok that's a bit of exaggeration but you get the gist. People in Africa are not fundamentally different to people anywhere else, although culture may vary :) )

It's not as simple as moving to a city- you act like your some sort of ulter human who always knows what someone in Africa should do to succeed. They can't get to urban centres because in countries like congo they're about 100 miles away and someone earning a dollar a week can't afford a car can they?


Well in Africa if I have anything to go by from 12 years living there, I'd say even if they didn't have a car, they could find someone that does. A cousin or a friends friend. They'll help them out if they really need/want to get to the city :)

Africa has brilliant places for holidays however most dont leave the hotels or beaches so give nothing to rhe locals

Who do you suppose hotels in Mombasa employ as receptionists? Or housekeeping? Or luggage carriers? That's right: Locals :) So don't say that nothing goes to the locals.

And in Kenya all beaches are public property, meaning that everyone is allowed to walk there. Tourists can buy handicrafts from salesmen on the beach. Or buy camel rides.

Of course it's debatable whether the systems are such that provide maximum benefit to locals, but to say they give nothing to locals is a massive understatement.

also Africans can be rich, they're capitalist like us, they just are unlikely to find the opportunitie.

also dont give them food or water, instead tackle root causes

Oh they have opportunity all right. Actually wonderful opportunities. Most of them just don't notice it. Same situation as other continents of the earth.

http://www.one.org/international/blog/slum-rising-meet-a-family-who-are-proud-to-call-kibera-home/ Here is one story of a place where people can notice they have opportunity and there are some who capitalize on that. I had a better story in mind but couldn't find it right now.

And about root causes: I agree with you 100%! That is something that should always be done in any area of problem solving, big or small, Africa or western world.

You also seem to think we would need to ration our food to help Africa- that's simply not true. Africa has the opportunity to produce it's own food it just needs the support along with the infrastructure.

I'd actually go even further. Most African countries have NO NEED for incoming resources donated from western countries. At least Kenya has more than enough but the money isn't invested into anything useful, unless absolutely necessary to ensure that additional money will be coming in.

The people in power sadly are people who don't serve their country. Instead they buy themselves power (don't mean electricity here), cars and a few big houses.

It's like giving lots of money to a lazy person with big talk but no action. He buys a fancy car, a nice apartment. You ask him to get a job as a condition for more money. He gets one, you give him the money. He quits the job. You say to him he needs to get his job back. He says he needs money in order to invest in his career. You give him money. He buys another fancy car.

And somehow western countries are dumb enough to continue even though this has been happening for decades...

[britishboy]

Who do you suppose hotels in Mombasa employ as receptionists? Or housekeeping? Or luggage carriers? That's right: Locals :) So don't say that nothing goes to the locals.

the proper big hotels belong to mostly Westerners like us, or wealthy Africans, and they do help of course however most dont leave the hotels to see the locals

And in Kenya all beaches are public property, meaning that everyone is allowed to walk there. Tourists can buy handicrafts from salesmen on the beach. Or buy camel rides.


really? ' The house offers 700 feet of
private beach along a tropical 4 mile
white, sandy coastline with palm
trees where guests can really feel at
one with nature.'
www.msambweni-beach-house.com/aboutus.php

[Music Lover]

the proper big hotels belong to mostly Westerners like us, or wealthy Africans, and they do help of course however most dont leave the hotels to see the locals[/url]

Well obviously the guys who own the big hotels are rich... But there are loads of hotels, cottage rentals etc. which are much smaller businesses too.

Yeah most are there just for the sun, pools and cocktails... The joke's on them though. They have such an opportunity to have a really amazing holiday and all they do is something they could do at their own country in the summer.

really? ' The house offers 700 feet of
private beach along a tropical 4 mile
white, sandy coastline with palm
trees where guests can really feel at
one with nature.'
www.msambweni-beach-house.com/aboutus.php

Well why don't you call them and ask how they did it? :)

Because to my current knowledge, all kenyan coastline is by law public access, so you aren't allowed to restrict anyone entering. It may be that the place is so secluded that beach boys don't feel they can profit off the so they stay away. That's one reason that functionally it could be private although nothing legally keeps people away.

Or it may be that they found a way to bribe the officials to let them have the place private. Or that they don't actually have it private, but act as if they do (i.e. keep people away illegally)

It's really hard to come up with any info because so little is documented on the internet. But at least the biggest hotels wouldn't allow such a mass of people to come to their beaches if they could. Because most of the beach boys are really aggressive in selling, which has led to some hotels building walls separating the beach from the hotel resort. (technically a sharp elevation, but the function is the same.) What I'm trying to say is most of the beach boys hurt the hotel's business because their aggressive selling gives hotel visitors a reason to stay off going to the beach. And of course their stay would be better if they could lie on the beach all day compared to lying next to the beach.

And here's the only link I found about the publicness of beaches: http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTopic-g294206-i9216-k4585693-Any_hotels_with_truly_private_beaches-Kenya.html

[Left Now]

We have to help Africa.A simple meaningful answer isn't it.

[Music Lover]

We have to help Africa.A simple meaningful answer isn't it.

Do you have any ideas on how we should help? :)

[tovaris]

Should we help?


What do you mean what to do? Africa is a diverse continent not a country.
And yes those parts that need help should be helped!


If so how?


Humanitarian ade.


Firstly the there's enough food to go around argument dosent take into account most people enjoy wasting food, large buffets ect


of course it holds up the USA burns crops to mantain price on the market... And don't tell me that eint wrong...


Secondly there MUST be a rich and a poor, it is better for us to be the rich ones


There is no need for there to be rich and poore, why can't we all anjoy life?


Thirdly every penny spent there wont return and in a time of cuts, that money should be spent more wisely

Yes more wisely since giving it to lcal corupt polititions usualy does not weeld results, nore should it be spent on arms!

[britishboy]

Humanitarian ade.

pointless must target root causes


of course it holds up the USA burns crops to mantain price on the market... And don't tell me that eint wrong...

many countries burn crops and yes it is right, they're not burning it for fun but instead to benefit themselves



Yes more wisely since giving it to lcal corupt polititions usualy does not weeld results, nore should it be spent on arms!

corrupt politicians? we're talking about the west not China and ill tell you not to spend money on defense when your invaded?

[Harry Smith]

pointless must target root causes



many countries burn crops and yes it is right, they're not burning it for fun but instead to benefit themselves



corrupt politicians? we're talking about the west not China and ill tell you not to spend money on defense when your invaded?

The root cause of poverty in Africa are the TNC's and other western companies such as Nestle who go over there and take natural resources and labour without reinvesting in wages or infrastructure. The definition of root is the something established- we've been their for the last 300 fucking it over.

Cash Crops don't even generate that much cash,they should focus on feeding people first.

The west has many corrupt politicians, have you heard of the MP expenses scandal or maybe Richard Nixon?

Switzerland have very low defense spending compared to the rest of Europe and they haven't been invaded.

You'll actually find out if you did some research that the countries who spend the most are in turn most likely to be involved in war.

[tovaris]

pointless must target root causes


Root cause is the sistem change the sistem!


many countries burn crops and yes it is right, they're not burning it for fun but instead to benefit themselves

Burning crops benifits noone, exept the 1 per cent of the population the filthy rich! Why not send them to those who need them?


corrupt politicians?


Yes they are everywhere.


we're talking about the west not China and ill tell you not to spend money on defense when your invaded?

The west has corupt polititions for export and so do africam countries.
China infackt helps african states extensevly.
Yes invaded by nato and conpany or mursenary armies sponsored by cooporations, western stares or rival tribes, whos wepons were paied by...