Confederate flag racist?

[thatcountrykid]

So my school has a large population if country boys, and a very largenpopulation of hispanic kids including our principal. Some of our our country kids including myself wear the rebel flag or portray it in some way. Recently the school admin has started to make the kids cover it up or take it of our trucks because it " offends the mexican students." And before i get too far into i'll just day it now im not trying to start a racial argument. I do feel for lack of a better word offended that 1: they dont let me portray my heritage and 2: that they allow the hispanic students to have their flag and have a club called the " league of united latin american citizens." Personally i feel that its unfair to us country kids because we are not using the flag as a racial symbol.

Any way... What do you guys think about this? Is the flag racist and why do you think that? And is it fair that my school does this?

[Cygnus]

You know that flag represented the people who wanted to enslave blacks and would most likely hate latinos? There US has a flag and you can use that instead, I think it would be more healthy. Your school's measures are okay.

[thatcountrykid]

You know that flag represented the people who wanted to enslave blacks and would most likely hate latinos? There US has a flag and you can use that instead, I think it would be more healthy. Your school's measures are okay.

Beleive me i do usey countries flag and will breathe my last breath for it but the
Fact that they allow te hispanic students to carry their flag and have pride clubs then why cant i. Theyre american now, why cant they use that instead?

[Cygnus]

Beleive me i do usey countries flag and will breathe my last breath for it but the
Fact that they allow te hispanic students to carry their flag and have pride clubs then why cant i. Theyre american now, why cant they use that instead?

Not all of them are nationalized, nationalizing is an option. I don't live in Venezuela but I can use a Venezuelan flag if I want to and I will have no problem, because it is harming no one, and that is my nationality, just like other latinos can wear the flag of their countries with hopefully no problem.

[thatcountrykid]

Not all of them are nationalized, nationalizing is an option. I don't live in Venezuela but I can use a Venezuelan flag if I want to and I will have no problem, because it is harming no one, and that is my nationality, just like other latinos can wear the flag of their countries with hopefully no problem.

Then i dont understand why i cant wear the flag of my heritage. It harms no one and if it dies its by themselves.

[Cygnus]

Then i dont understand why i cant wear the flag of my heritage. It harms no one and if it dies its by themselves.

Because people have suffered historically because of the racism under that flag.

[conniption]

I get what you're saying. You don't necessarily have the same the same beliefs as the people of the confederate states back then just because you wear the flag, the flag is simply a significant part of US history.

[thatcountrykid]

Because people have suffered historically because of the racism under that flag.

But the flag does not represent racism. Some of the people who followed the flag were racist. As i said we dont use the flag in a racist manner.

[dsi411]

Texas?

[thatcountrykid]

Texas?

Colorado

[dsi411]

Colorado
Whoops. Anyways, I say as long as you are showing respect to all races, you should be able to wear any flag you want.

[TheBigUnit]

Please let me put it this way,
They view it just like anyone would wearing a swastika to school, both the rebel flag and the swasika have their own meanings, in fact the swastika is the symbol for peace and prosperity, but both are also the symbol or hate and a harbinger of trouble for others who see the them, both are also defeated radical sects that should never return if they come back with the same cause

[thatcountrykid]

Please let me put it this way,
They view it just like anyone would wearing a swastika to school, both the rebel flag and the swasika have their own meanings, in fact the swastika is the symbol for peace and prosperity, but both are also the symbol or hate and a harbinger of trouble for others who see the them, both are also defeated radical sects that should never return if they come back with the same cause

The "cause" is pride for my heritage. I'm not a racist. This flag is pride for my way of life and where my family comes from. Why is it ok for someone from mexico ti have their flag for the same reasons and i cant?

[TheBigUnit]

The "cause" is pride for my heritage. I'm not a racist. This flag is pride for my way of life and where my family comes from. Why is it ok for someone from mexico ti have their flag for the same reasons and i cant?

You are from USA not South USA, or some moniker like that. most people wear the rebel flag just to intimidate minorities, once again its a radical sect that was ousted for a reason, by all means you could wear the USA flag and I'll join you, or what ethnicity you are because USA isnt a "nation"

[thatcountrykid]

You are from USA not South USA, or some moniker like that. most people wear the rebel flag just to intimidate minorities, once again its a radical sect that was ousted for a reason, by all means you could wear the USA flag and I'll join you, or what ethnicity you are because USA isnt a "nation"

Like i said before i'm not a racist. I am proud of my nation and its flag and would proudly breath my last breath for it. But im also proud of my heritage and do not agree that some else can be loud and proud about theirs when i can even have a belt buckle with the flag on it. There is a quote that describes my standpoint perfectly.

" respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours." - Tecumseh

[CharlieHorse]

I would think it is best to just avoid trouble with the administration of the school and just use a different flag. It is debatable whether or not you have the right as a student and an american citizen to display those symbols...

[thatcountrykid]

I would think it is best to just avoid trouble with the administration of the school and just use a different flag. It is debatable whether or not you have the right as a student and an american citizen to display those symbols...

That is the flag of my heritage. There is no other flag

[CharlieHorse]

That is the flag of my heritage. There is no other flag

Hey
You want an answer? Go think this over, and go talk to the administration of your school. Talk to the principal.

[thatcountrykid]

Hey
You want an answer? Go think this over, and go talk to the administration of your school. Talk to the principal.

Yeah i do want an answer but, i don't know, maybe i want a few that aren't basically saying I'm a racist pig and i need to bend over and take it unlike, and not trying to be racist, the hispanic and african american students in my school.

[CharlieHorse]

Yeah i do want an answer but, i don't know, maybe i want a few that aren't basically saying I'm a racist pig and i need to bend over and take it unlike, and not trying to be racist, the hispanic and african american students in my school.

well you wanted some opinions on the matter. You got those. Are you going to do something with it? It may be that the school is just unsure about it, and that explaining your intentions might let them realize it's ok for you and they might allow it.

[thatcountrykid]

well you wanted some opinions on the matter. You got those. Are you going to do something with it? It may be that the school is just unsure about it, and that explaining your intentions might let them realize it's ok for you and they might allow it.

I did get your opinions and i appreciate and respect them; however, and please forgive me here as I'm not that good with words, but i doubt they are unsure because they allow blacks and hispanics to start, for lack of a better word, "pride" groups., how ever they wont even let me wear a rebel flag belt buckle. That seems pretty certain considering they have done this all
Last year and this year.

[Stronk Serb]

People suffered under that flag. It represents slavery to some minorities, people will get offended, especially if their family heritage involved them being enslaved and forced to work under that flag. The Confederation practised slavery, and slaves were usually harshly treated. What you are saying is the same as if a German would want to carry a Nazi flag because his family fought in WWII, completely forgoing what the Nazis did. Your group can bring it up with the principal, because you have freedom of speech, but yes, the flag is very offensive to some, especially the African American population.

[Southside]

No doubt a part of US history but it depends on how it is presented, people did indeed suffer a hell of a lot under that banner that you guys pride yourself in so much down South.

If its at a Neo-Nazi rally or something like that, yes its a racist symbol

If its standing in front of a yard of someone who had family who served in the Confederacy during the Civil War, not racist.

[Lovelife090994]

But the flag does not represent racism. Some of the people who followed the flag were racist. As i said we dont use the flag in a racist manner.

Actually that flag denotes racism to many Blacks. The minute I see the Confederate flag I know to turn around. Being a Confederate is not so much of a heritage, it's a way of thinking. The heritage is really the state your family is from. Like the KKK the Confederate flag is known for racist ideas and negative looks to all who were not white in American history and it is used today still but usually by racists and white supremecists. No, you may not be like that, but it's like flying a swastica, it has a negative connotation regardless of who flies it.

[Harry Smith]

The Flag is racist, it's a flag that was flown by people who wanted to keep they're slaves. It hasn't developed due to the fact that it died out when the south lost. It's like my flying a Swastika and claiming it's okay because I have german roots

[thatcountrykid]

Actually that flag denotes racism to many Blacks. The minute I see the Confederate flag I know to turn around. Being a Confederate is not so much of a heritage, it's a way of thinking. The heritage is really the state your family is from. Like the KKK the Confederate flag is known for racist ideas and negative looks to all who were not white in American history and it is used today still but usually by racists and white supremecists. No, you may not be like that, but it's like flying a swastica, it has a negative connotation regardless of who flies it.

My family is frome the south. Virginia roots. We fought on both sides in the civil war. It is my heritage. Abd while on the subject of slavery, whites were not the only ones to use slaves. There were actually many africans who owned black slaves in the south.

[sqishy]

If it's causing problems in the school, then it's best to not have it. People may have unjustified reasons to see you without the flag, but to keep things cool it may be the best option. I don't think any flag is racist, unless some is implied from the symbolism of the flag.

If I were to bring a large rainbow flag into school tomorrow, there would be a lot of controversy, some with the flag's symbolism itself, but most with bringing something 'not part' of uniform into school.

[thatcountrykid]

If it's causing problems in the school, then it's best to not have it. People may have unjustified reasons to see you without the flag, but to keep things cool it may be the best option. I don't think any flag is racist, unless some is implied from the symbolism of the flag.

If I were to bring a large rainbow flag into school tomorrow, there would be a lot of controversy, some with the flag's symbolism itself, but most with bringing something 'not part' of uniform into school.

There has never been any grievances from students or their parents about us having it. Its just the principal saying it " may offend the mexican students.

[sqishy]

There has never been any grievances from students or their parents about us having it. Its just the principal saying it " may offend the mexican students.

I guess it's between you and your principal then. But people shouldn't be offended by a flag, that's being over-patriotic and over-sensitive for your country. And I don't see many of our age being like that. There will be some, but not many.

[Sugaree]

Flags can't be racist, you idiots. Only people can.

Jesus Christ, the stupidity of some people on this board.

[Swedish_boy]

In Europe a lot of people thinks its racist..

[Lovelife090994]

My family is frome the south. Virginia roots. We fought on both sides in the civil war. It is my heritage. Abd while on the subject of slavery, whites were not the only ones to use slaves. There were actually many africans who owned black slaves in the south.

That is not my point at all.

[thatcountrykid]

That is not my point at all.

Please explain then how " being a confederate is not much of a heritage"

[Trenton_]

Flags can't be racist, you idiots. Only people can.

Jesus Christ, the stupidity of some people on this board.

In Europe a lot of people thinks its racist..

dakota knows. a flag is no more racist than a chair or a cloud.

[irishguy123]

probably because of the history of the flag

[Swedish_boy]

dakota knows. a flag is no more racist than a chair or a cloud.


Or its just for rednecks...

[Lovelife090994]

Please explain then how " being a confederate is not much of a heritage"

That's like wearing the Swastica, or a symbol of Stalin, the history of it is offensive, and by the way, Confederacy is not a race, and if your family was Confederate, wouldn't that have made them supporters of slavery? Heritage is European, African, Asian, to be generic, not Confederate. My family has a long history of being in the north but we don't call our heritage, Union heritage. The Conferate flag isn't a good sign. The minute I see someone with it I know to avoid them, it is not good. The meaning.

[Sir Suomi]

People suffered under that flag. It represents slavery to some minorities, people will get offended, especially if their family heritage involved them being enslaved and forced to work under that flag. The Confederation practised slavery, and slaves were usually harshly treated. What you are saying is the same as if a German would want to carry a Nazi flag because his family fought in WWII, completely forgoing what the Nazis did. Your group can bring it up with the principal, because you have freedom of speech, but yes, the flag is very offensive to some, especially the African American population.

Many could say the same about the flag you proudly show as your avatar, mind that.

[EddietheZombie]

I think its fine to have the Rebel Flag on anything. Its a symbol of a part of America anyway. And the Confederacy and the Civil War wasnt all about slavery, the South thought that Lincoln was going to stop their way of living and destroy their economy, which he did, it just so happened that slavery was part of it. And the Swastika is nothing like the Rebel Flag at all. The Swastika has a lot more history and meaning other than Nazi symbolism. There is pottery from the 1800s and earlier in America that had the Swastika on it. Some were from my people. I am not a Nazi, but if i had the symbol most would assume I was out of ignorance of the past. Same with the Confederate flag. Would it be any different to have an American flag in front of a Japanese, Vietnamese, Native Indian, German, Mexican, ect? Would it be any more "Racist" of "Offending"?

[thatcountrykid]

That's like wearing the Swastica, or a symbol of Stalin, the history of it is offensive, and by the way, Confederacy is not a race, and if your family was Confederate, wouldn't that have made them supporters of slavery? Heritage is European, African, Asian, to be generic, not Confederate. My family has a long history of being in the north but we don't call our heritage, Union heritage. The Conferate flag isn't a good sign. The minute I see someone with it I know to avoid them, it is not good. The meaning.

Well maybe people need to stop being so dang sensitive about something that happened over 100 years ago. And yes it is a heritage and it is mine. Maybe you didnt see the quote i posted before. " respect others in their views, and dand that they respect yours." I never said i have a problem with their views an pride. I have a problem that they wont lete show mine.

I think its fine to have the Rebel Flag on anything. Its a symbol of a part of America anyway. And the Confederacy and the Civil War wasnt all about slavery, the South thought that Lincoln was going to stop their way of living and destroy their economy, which he did, it just so happened that slavery was part of it. And the Swastika is nothing like the Rebel Flag at all. The Swastika has a lot more history and meaning other than Nazi symbolism. There is pottery from the 1800s and earlier in America that had the Swastika on it. Some were from my people. I am not a Nazi, but if i had the symbol most would assume I was out of ignorance of the past. Same with the Confederate flag. Would it be any different to have an American flag in front of a Japanese, Vietnamese, Native Indian, German, Mexican, ect? Would it be any more "Racist" of "Offending"?

Thank you. That is an excilent point with the american flag.

[Lovelife090994]

Well maybe people need to stop being so dang sensitive about something that happened over 100 years ago. And yes it is a heritage and it is mine. Maybe you didnt see the quote i posted before. " respect others in their views, and dand that they respect yours." I never said i have a problem with their views an pride. I have a problem that they wont lete show mine.



Thank you. That is an excilent point with the american flag.

Fine, you can have pride, no problem with that, no. But I'm telling you now, if you parade around a flag of the Confederacy it represents a Southern Racist, be forewarned.

[Amazerful]

I don't think that its racist, it just has a bad reputation after racist people used it. I think that its just a sign of your culture and you should be able to display it if you want.

[Stronk Serb]

Many could say the same about the flag you proudly show as your avatar, mind that.


Still hating on communists I see? Well pretty much the same could be said for the US flag which you love so much.

[Camazotz]

There is a common misconception that the flag symbolizes "racism, slavery, etc." I used to think that too, but apparently the actual view by many people that support the Confederate Flag is much different (http://www.worldissues360.com/index.php/confederate-flag-heritage-or-hate-11-71200/).

I don't know, I'm still undecided on the subject. I can see why you would get offended by the flag because of how you perceive it, but I also understand that the intentions of waving the Confederate Flag is not what you might think. There are plenty of black people from the South that wave this flag around too. It's a symbol (http://usamericahistory.blogspot.com/2011/04/confederate-flag-meaning.html) of Southern culture, of independence, and freedom of expression and petition of the government.

[EddietheZombie]

Well maybe people need to stop being so dang sensitive about something that happened over 100 years ago. And yes it is a heritage and it is mine. Maybe you didnt see the quote i posted before. " respect others in their views, and dand that they respect yours." I never said i have a problem with their views an pride. I have a problem that they wont lete show mine.

And thank you for this. I cant stand it when people get upset over something as small as words or inanimate objects. Its childish.

Fine, you can have pride, no problem with that, no. But I'm telling you now, if you parade around a flag of the Confederacy it represents a Southern Racist, be forewarned.
Hes not parading it around, its on a belt buckle and on a bumper sticker. Its would be different if he had a flag and was leading a parade or something.

[teen.jpg]

Just use the regular USA flag and avoid issues. Seriously, referring to what was previously said, if you wear a swatsika, I don't care WHAT purpose you're wearing it for, I'm uncomfortable with that.

[EddietheZombie]

Just use the regular USA flag and avoid issues. Seriously, referring to what was previously said, if you wear a swatsika, I don't care WHAT purpose you're wearing it for, I'm uncomfortable with that.

But the USA flag can be "Racist" to any number of races as well. Mexican, German, American Indian, Japanese, ect. Personally i see no difference in whether one flag is less "Racist" than the other.

[teen.jpg]

But the USA flag can be "Racist" to any number of races as well. Mexican, German, American Indian, Japanese, ect. Personally i see no difference in whether one flag is less "Racist" than the other.

At least the regular USA flag doesn't cause as much controversy where he actually lives. I'm not telling him what to do, but ...

[thatcountrykid]

At least the regular USA flag doesn't cause as much controversy where he actually lives. I'm not telling him what to do, but ...

Actually even the american flag has caused controversey as well. They have a student take an american flag bandanna of of his bag and another take the flag off of his truck. Their reason? Because it is " too patriotic and offends some mexican students."

[EddietheZombie]

At least the regular USA flag doesn't cause as much controversy where he actually lives. I'm not telling him what to do, but ...
Actually even the american flag has caused controversey as well. They have a student take an american flag bandanna of of his bag and another take the flag off of his truck. Their reason? Because it is " too patriotic and offends some mexican students."
Exactly, couldnt have answered it better. It can be just as "Controversial" as any other flag, depending on their race and what it means to them. At the end of the day, all any flag is, is just a piece of cloth with designs on it. Are we as so low as to be offended by cloth or symbols?

[thatcountrykid]

Exactly, couldnt have answered it better. It can be just as "Controversial" as any other flag, depending on their race and what it means to them. At the end of the day, all any flag is, is just a piece of cloth with designs on it. Are we as so low as to be offended by cloth or symbols?

While you are correct flags and symbols have huge meanings and ideals. My signature for example. That picture is the thin blue line. It represents the thin line of the men and women in law enforcement protecting good from evil. To some its just a stupid line but to me... To me it is me. It is my family. It is what i was put on this world to be. I'm here to make that line just a little longer like the rest of my family has. My point is is that symbols are huge and have influence over everything. Big or small.

[Stronk Serb]

Actually even the american flag has caused controversey as well. They have a student take an american flag bandanna of of his bag and another take the flag off of his truck. Their reason? Because it is " too patriotic and offends some mexican students."

The staff at your school really dislike the country kid population. If other minorities can wave their flags and have their pride clubs, but you can't, that pretty much means you have no rights of free expression while you are in your school.

While you are correct flags and symbols have huge meanings and ideals. My signature for example. That picture is the thin blue line. It represents the thin line of the men and women in law enforcement protecting good from evil. To some its just a stupid line but to me... To me it is me. It is my family. It is what i was put on this world to be. I'm here to make that line just a little longer like the rest of my family has. My point is is that symbols are huge and have influence over everything. Big or small.

I see what you mean. If the Confederate flag is waved by all races in the south as a sign of independence, why is your principal hating on you then? They really have no better business but to hate on people like you. You are not shouting anything racist or something like that, so why would a bunch of students get butthurt over you having some symbol.

[Lovelife090994]

And thank you for this. I cant stand it when people get upset over something as small as words or inanimate objects. Its childish.

Sensitivity is not the issue, respect is.

Hes not parading it around, its on a belt buckle and on a bumper sticker. Its would be different if he had a flag and was leading a parade or something.

That is parading it around. It is a part of his property that can be seen to the public and on his person. Maybe in other countries most would think it some odd design but in America it's meanings are so negative because the negative meanings come to mind first. Plus I live in Texas, whenever you see that flag, go! The people of Vider, Texas use that flag and call it their heritage too and to Texas and native Houstonian Texans we know to avoid that town and others like it. Even some Whites are uncomfortable around that flag here. I have taken US History, even a course on the many flags of the US, and the meaning is unnerving.

[Vlerchan]

The flag - as previously pointed out, many times - holds some highly negative connotations for many people; it has come to represent an unjust and immoral cause, and whilst many who fought under it might not have fully agreed with this cause, the men who led them certainly did. I'd similarly liken it to the Nazi Swastika; whilst not every solider was anti-Semitic, or believed in Aryan supremacy, it's still gone on to symbolise such due to the opinions and values head by their leaders. I do believe in Freedom of expression, so I do believe that you just have the right to sport your pro-confederate colours. However, if your principal believes that its symbolism offends students then you really should be respecting that - he's clearly setting out to avoid potential trouble; I really doubt there'd be any underlying malicious intent behind his decision. I personally wouldn't think particularly highly of someone carrying around such a symbol.

I'm assuming that non-Latin Americans students can join this Citizens Union-thing, and it focuses on the mostly-non-controversial culture of Latin American countries, or something not totally dissimilar. In which case I'd find it wholly different than disallowing symbols of the confederacy.

[thatcountrykid]

The flag - as previously pointed out, many times - holds some highly negative connotations for many people; it has come to represent an unjust and immoral cause, and whilst many who fought under it might not have fully agreed with this cause, the men who led them certainly did. I'd similarly liken it to the Nazi Swastika; whilst not every solider was anti-Semitic, or believed in Aryan supremacy, it's still gone on to symbolise such due to the opinions and values head by their leaders. I do believe in Freedom of expression, so I do believe that you just have the right to sport your pro-confederate colours. However, if your principal believes that its symbolism offends students then you really should be respecting that - he's clearly setting out to avoid potential trouble; I really doubt there'd be any underlying malicious intent behind his decision. I personally wouldn't think particularly highly of someone carrying around such a symbol.

I'm assuming that non-Latin Americans students can join this Citizens Union-thing, and it focuses on the mostly-non-controversial culture of Latin American countries, or something not totally dissimilar. In which case I'd find it wholly different than disallowing symbols of the confederacy.

There has never been a grievance by and hispanic or black students. Only from my principal who is hispanic. Why do i need to give them my respect when they do not give it back?

And no, they only allow hispanics in the club.

[Harry Smith]

There has never been a grievance by and hispanic or black students. Only from my principal who is hispanic. Why do i need to give them my respect when they do not give it back?

And no, they only allow hispanics in the club.

ahah the good old if they don't respect me I won't respect them- the thinking that has pretty much doomed mankind for the last 100 years.

There weren't many grievances in the 1930's when Hitler started dealing with the Jews and dissenters in Germany, just because people aren't up in arms about it doesn't mean it's justified to fly a flag that was used to support slavery

[Vlerchan]

There has never been a grievance by and hispanic or black students. Only from my principal who is hispanic. Why do i need to give them my respect when they do not give it back?

And no, they only allow hispanics in the club.
What Harry said: 'they don't respect me, so I won't respect them' thinking gets everyone absolutely nowhere. Also holding grievances, and stating grievances are too entirely different things. I don't like that I have to; am forced to attend church with my school year at Christmas and Easter; but I'll never speak out against it because it is simply more trouble that it's worth. (Harry's example, whilst more general works either; even in the most extreme cases individuals will hold back their criticisms for fear of the trouble they might cause; it wasn't until something really serious happened - Kristallnacht - that world governments began openly criticising the Nazi regime.) Again, I won't say you cant parade around with your flag; badge; sigel; whatever, but rather consider the negative message it sends to those around you, and the potential offence it can - and probably is - causing, even if people aren't speaking out against it.

I find it hard to believe that a schools administration would sanction a group that disallows potential members based on race. If it is then that's wrong, and should be brought to the attention of the administration.

[Plasma]

You know that flag represented the people who wanted to enslave blacks and would most likely hate latinos? There US has a flag and you can use that instead, I think it would be more healthy. Your school's measures are okay.

The Confederate flag does not symbolize racism nor does it mean that the person flying it is a racist. Saying that is a total generalization, no better than saying something bad about another race. Also, the North too had slaves at one point...

So my school has a large population if country boys, and a very largenpopulation of hispanic kids including our principal. Some of our our country kids including myself wear the rebel flag or portray it in some way. Recently the school admin has started to make the kids cover it up or take it of our trucks because it " offends the mexican students." And before i get too far into i'll just day it now im not trying to start a racial argument. I do feel for lack of a better word offended that 1: they dont let me portray my heritage and 2: that they allow the hispanic students to have their flag and have a club called the " league of united latin american citizens." Personally i feel that its unfair to us country kids because we are not using the flag as a racial symbol.

Any way... What do you guys think about this? Is the flag racist and why do you think that? And is it fair that my school does this?
Your school technically can't do that, as long as it's a public school. You're protected in the first amendment.


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[Harry Smith]

The Confederate flag does not symbolize racism nor does it mean that the person flying it is a racist. Saying that is a total generalization, no better than saying something bad about another race. Also, the North too had slaves at one point...

-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

Sure the flag doesn't represent racism- it represents people who were fighting so that they could carry on owing people who were black. That's as simple as it is- it's a battle flag for slave owners.

Yes, the north had slaves but unlike the southerners they worked out that it was kinda immoral to own someone.

[Plasma]

The South wasn't initially fighting to keep slavery. Lincoln only abolished it so that the slaves would side with him and revolt, long after the South seceded. The South seceded because the North wasn't treating them properly.

[World Eater]

Yes, the north had slaves but unlike the southerners they worked out that it was kinda immoral to own someone.

That and the North wasn't really a good place for agriculture. The north built up it's economy through smaller farms and industry instead of huge plantations and the like.

[satarra3180]

There has never been a grievance by and hispanic or black students. Only from my principal who is hispanic. Why do i need to give them my respect when they do not give it back?

And no, they only allow hispanics in the club.

This has been a really interesting discussion and to be honest when I first saw your post I was like..."yea, that has racist meaning behind it and you probably should not promote it"...but you have made some good points and really started a good discussion and I really appreciate it. Personally, I do not think there is anything wrong with a Hispanic group showing pride in their heritage by having a club etc...but I can understand your frustration. I think you should really talk more with your principal and see if you can get a group of you together (Hispanic, black, white, etc) and just talk about the issue so you can really understand where each of you are coming from. I think more talks like that about issues like this are needed especially in school.

[thatcountrykid]

What Harry said: 'they don't respect me, so I won't respect them' thinking gets everyone absolutely nowhere. Also holding grievances, and stating grievances are too entirely different things. I don't like that I have to; am forced to attend church with my school year at Christmas and Easter; but I'll never speak out against it because it is simply more trouble that it's worth. (Harry's example, whilst more general works either; even in the most extreme cases individuals will hold back their criticisms for fear of the trouble they might cause; it wasn't until something really serious happened - Kristallnacht - that world governments began openly criticising the Nazi regime.) Again, I won't say you cant parade around with your flag; badge; sigel; whatever, but rather consider the negative message it sends to those around you, and the potential offence it can - and probably is - causing, even if people aren't speaking out against it.

I find it hard to believe that a schools administration would sanction a group that disallows potential members based on race. If it is then that's wrong, and should be brought to the attention of the administration.

If people refuse to do things because it "more trouble than its worth" nothing would have ever been acomplished. America would not be free. Planes would not be flying overhead. Slavery would not be abolished. You see my point?
That is, and i mean no offence, the lazy man excuse. Stand up for your rights. What did rosa parks do? She stood up for her rights. What did the colonies do? What do soldiers do. They spend years from their families; shedding blood, sweat, and tears. They go through the trouble.

My point is is why should i have to lay down and let them trample my rights? Its no illegal for me to be proud if my heritage is it?

[Vlerchan]

If people refuse to do things because it "more trouble than its worth" nothing would have ever been acomplished. America would not be free. Planes would not be flying overhead. Slavery would not be abolished. You see my point?
You're cherrypicking major moments in human history; moments that affected millions of people, and millions of people to come after. The causes mentioned were wholly more significant than one kid in one school feeling the need to parade around in colours, that - as perceived by many - represent slavery and racial divisions, for an extra 7 - 9 hours a day; Mon - Fri - potentially offending every minority and non-minority you happen to chance across; which I'm sure happens a lot in a school as seemingly diverse as yours.

My point is is why should i have to lay down and let them trample my rights? Its no illegal for me to be proud if my heritage is it?
Since we're set on using highly-exaggerated examples here I'll mention Fred Phelps. It's in his rights to do what he does; doesn't mean the world wouldn't be a much better place if he didn't, however.

[thatcountrykid]

You're cherrypicking major moments in human history; moments that affected millions of people, and millions of people to come after. The causes mentioned were wholly more significant than one kid in one school feeling the need to parade around in colours, that - as perceived by many - represent slavery and racial divisions, for an extra 7 - 9 hours a day; Mon - Fri - potentially offending every minority and non-minority you happen to chance across; which I'm sure happens a lot in a school as seemingly diverse as yours.


Since we're set on using highly-exaggerated examples here I'll mention Fred Phelps. It's in his rights to do what he does; doesn't mean the world wouldn't be a much better place if he didn't, however.

Ok then let me name a few small things. Getting good grades, getting a job, etc. i dont parade around school ina KKK outfit waving the flag. Its on a hat ir a belt buckle. Just a little something to show my heritage.

And those arent exagerated examples. They are points in history where people stood up for their rights. And also i have spoken to many minorities and afew of my good friends are hispanic and they have no problem.

[Camazotz]

Just like the Confederate flag isn't always racist, the swastika (http://www.truthperfected.com/2013/01/is-swastika-really-symbol-of-nazi-racism.html) wasn't supposed to be racist either. If someone were wearing it diagonally or surrounded by red, I'd assume it was racist (http://www.sanskrit.org/www/Hindu%20Primer/swastika.html). But in reality, the symbol is just like a word: it doesn't have meaning until it's given meaning.

The whole concept is tricky because most people associate the Confederate flag with hate and oppression and supporters don't see it that way at all (well, most of them anyway). I think that both sides are partially right and partially wrong.

[riverboy]

Go to the school board and state your case. Say who can and cannot have flags in school.

[Trenton_]

Or its just for rednecks...

IDK about that. i like and I'm not a redneck. You're from Sweden so i doubt you know any. Here's the funny thing about real rednecks. if you call one of them a redneck and not know if they are or say something like that's rednecking it. They'll say thanks or pretty cool right.

rednecks are proud of themselves which is pretty good imo and i only know a couple of them but i've been around many of them and they will give you the shirt off their back, do whatever it takes to help you if you need help, very friendly and have really good manners and are respectful. most of them are smart but they like it if you think they are a dumb rednek

[Lovelife090994]

IDK about that. i like and I'm not a redneck. You're from Sweden so i doubt you know any. Here's the funny thing about real rednecks. if you call one of them a redneck and not know if they are or say something like that's rednecking it. They'll say thanks or pretty cool right.

rednecks are proud of themselves which is pretty good imo and i only know a couple of them but i've been around many of them and they will give you the shirt off their back, do whatever it takes to help you if you need help, very friendly and have really good manners and are respectful. most of them are smart but they like it if you think they are a dumb rednek

Come to Texas. We have the racists, bad, uneducated rednecks. Rednecks are proud but they are never too good, at least not in my area or hometown, and my hometown is in Ohio!

[Swedish_boy]

IDK about that. i like and I'm not a redneck. You're from Sweden so i doubt you know any. Here's the funny thing about real rednecks. if you call one of them a redneck and not know if they are or say something like that's rednecking it. They'll say thanks or pretty cool right.

rednecks are proud of themselves which is pretty good imo and i only know a couple of them but i've been around many of them and they will give you the shirt off their back, do whatever it takes to help you if you need help, very friendly and have really good manners and are respectful. most of them are smart but they like it if you think they are a dumb rednek

Here we would look at them like retards and white trash.. :)

[Pittsburgh]

The confederate flag is part of our history and personally i'm tired of all the wussies that want to change things to satisfy themselves. Maybe those same ppl want to cancel Thanksgiving as to not offend the indians when our forefathers came here and took there land. Quit being a bunch of pansies and calling stupid and senseless change progress. Put on your big boy panties and suck it up ! If you dont like it here , ... leave !!!

[Greg1994]

I personally associate the flag with racism, but that's just me. Also, there's only a few people that display the flag where I'm from, and I don't really like them to begin with, so I might just be rationalizing here.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Not only is it racist, it's also treasonous. When you'er waving that flag around, you're not just basically promoting racism, but you're also showing your support for a band of traitorous rebels who killed thousands of US soldiers.

That flag lost any kind of historical value when organizations like the Klan stained it by adopting it as their symbol.

[Lovelife090994]

The confederate flag is part of our history and personally i'm tired of all the wussies that want to change things to satisfy themselves. Maybe those same ppl want to cancel Thanksgiving as to not offend the indians when our forefathers came here and took there land. Quit being a bunch of pansies and calling stupid and senseless change progress. Put on your big boy panties and suck it up ! If you dont like it here , ... leave !!!

How insensitive! The Confederacy was not America, the north was because the south separated! How dare you say such words are a human.

Not only is it racist, it's also treasonous. When you'er waving that flag around, you're not just basically promoting racism, but you're also showing your support for a band of traitorous rebels who killed thousands of US soldiers.

That flag lost any kind of historical value when organizations like the Klan stained it by adopting it as their symbol.

That is the point many fail to grasp, the Confederacy was not the Union thus not America any more.


-please do not double post. -Emerald Dream

[thatcountrykid]

Not only is it racist, it's also treasonous. When you'er waving that flag around, you're not just basically promoting racism, but you're also showing your support for a band of traitorous rebels who killed thousands of US soldiers.

That flag lost any kind of historical value when organizations like the Klan stained it by adopting it as their symbol.

Ok so by that logic is it treasonous that a mexican american citizen waves their flag. They have killed us soldiers. What about iraqi or afgani citizens in america. I that treasonous?

[tovaris]

What is wrong with the confederative flag? Its no more rasist than the union one...

[Zenos]

You know that flag represented the people who wanted to enslave blacks and would most likely hate latinos? There US has a flag and you can use that instead, I think it would be more healthy. Your school's measures are okay.


WRONG that flag was the battle Flag of the Confederate Army,not the flag of the Confederate States of America itself .

Plus non of use where back there to know the truth about what was happening,all we have been taught is second hand opinions by the winners.

And one thing I have learned the winners always write their version of things,and never the truth because it's not in their vested interests to be 100% honest.

[Zenos]

Not only is it racist, it's also treasonous. When you'er waving that flag around, you're not just basically promoting racism, but you're also showing your support for a band of traitorous rebels who killed thousands of US soldiers.

That flag lost any kind of historical value when organizations like the Klan stained it by adopting it as their symbol.


You are proof that most of my generation is Myopic.

Myopic: shortsighted, lacking tolerance or understanding; narrow-minded.


And yes Grand Admiral Thrawn you are being all of that. We Southerners are a proud people AND have the right to wave that flag if we want to as a celebration of Southern Culture.

Also do you realize that every war we have been in since the civil war as Americans a large portion of man power has come form the SOUTH!

But then I find it funny you are raising a stink over a flag when you are using a star wars general that was fighting to restore the tyrannical galactic empire .

Just incase you want to dispute my claims:


http://askville.amazon.com/Southerners-represented-Military-higher-numbers-regions-country/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=7033016

[Cygnus]

But then I find it funny you are raising a stink over a flag when you are using a star wars general that was fighting to restore the tyrannical galactic empire .

One was real, the other wasn't.

People suffered because of that flag and you can't deny it.

[likemike]

Ok so by that logic is it treasonous that a mexican american citizen waves their flag. They have killed us soldiers. What about iraqi or afgani citizens in america. I that treasonous?

The confederate states don't exist anymore, what do you get out of flying that flag?

[Zenos]

One was real, the other wasn't.

People suffered because of that flag and you can't deny it.

Lol the remark about the admiral was for sarcaism.


As to who suffred,everyone inf the South suffered, whether they where Whites ,the free blacks are the black slaves owned by the wealthy whites and wealthy free blacks.

Most people don't realize this there where free blacks in the south and as to slave owners it was only the wealthy whites and wealthy among the free blacks who owned them1

The confederate states don't exist anymore, what do you get out of flying that flag?

We Southerners are a proud people AND have the right to wave that flag if we want to as a celebration of Southern Culture.


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[likemike]

We Southerners are a proud people AND have the right to wave that flag if we want to as a celebration of Southern Culture.

What existed back then that doesn't now, in 2013, in the United States?

[Zenos]

What existed back then that doesn't now, in 2013, in the United States?

it maybe 2013 but we still have the right to be proud of ourseleves, if you don't like it that's your problem!

It seems like everyone from every other part of the USA has the right to be proud of their selves and their heritage, but people from the South everyone expects us to walk with our heads down! Sorry not happening here!

And that little remark of yours was designed just to do that! What you fail to realize is that there are more people from the South in the US Army then from any other region of this nation! So yeh we have lots to be proud of,we serve this nation and it's people with pride,despite the fact so many outside the south mock us!

[likemike]

You can live in the south and be American all you want. But, why use the confederate flag? What did it represent that isn't in today's world with the American flag? You say it's pride in your heritage, your heritage is American.

it maybe 2013 but we still have the right to be proud of ourseleves, if you don't like it that's your problem!

It seems like everyone from every other part of the USA has the right to be proud of their selves and their heritage, but people from the South everyone expects us to walk with our heads down! Sorry not happening here!

And that little remark of yours was designed just to do that! What you fail to realize is that there are more people from the South in the US Army then from any other region of this nation! So yeh we have lots to be proud of,we serve this nation and it's people with pride,despite the fact so many outside the south mock us!
Didn't answer the question I asked


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[Zenos]

You can live in the south and be American all you want. But, why use the confederate flag? What did it represent that isn't in today's world with the American flag? You say it's pride in your heritage, your heritage is American.

Its obviously you are not from the south.

So i'll try to explain it to you.
the average southerner was not fighting for slavery but their homes,by homes I'm not talking just the building they lived it..it was their state as well that was considered home and they fought for states rights.

and they where fighting because they thought that the federal government was over stepping it bounds by dictating what should have been decisions made by the states themselves....hmm sounds like todays a repeat of back then.

We celebrate not just our heritage as Americans but as Southerners..so please don't dictate what our heritage is, plus we wave that flag in celebration of the fact that even though we lost the war we at least had the balls to go up against an over bearing federal government!



Also i'd like to point out the hypocricy in your statement: You say it's pride in your heritage, your heritage is American!

Do you complain to latino citizens that celebrate their heritage not to that their heritage is American? how about African American citizens do you tell them not to celebrate their heritage nope I doubt it.

Southerners regardless of skin color have the right to celebrate their heritage as Southerners not just as Americans!

I can be a good Southerner and a good American too!

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Also do you realize that every war we have been in since the civil war as Americans a large portion of man power has come form the SOUTH!

But then I find it funny you are raising a stink over a flag when you are using a star wars general that was fighting to restore the tyrannical galactic empire.


You don't see German soldiers waving Nazi flags around, do you? It's pretty much the same thing. By waving your flag, you're promoting what the Confederacy stood for, including racism. Ideals like the South's racism have no place in American society anymore, and neither does that flag.

What's the fact that I like Thrawn got anything to do with this discussion? I also liked Breaking Bad, but I'm not condoning selling meth, or y'know...being a murderous sociopath.

[Zenos]

You don't see German soldiers waving Nazi flags around, do you? It's pretty much the same thing. By waving your flag, you're promoting what the Confederacy stood for, including racism. Ideals like the South's racism have no place in American society anymore, and neither does that flag.

What's the fact that I like Thrawn got anything to do with this discussion? I also liked Breaking Bad, but I'm not condoning selling meth, or y'know...being a murderous sociopath.


Your not condoning meth good for you because Well neither are most southerners who have the confederate battle flag promoting racism,as a matter of fact we'd love to see the racists using that flag to promote racism just vanish!

People have been coinditioined to see that flag and autoimatically roll their eyes to the sky and scream RACISM without asking the person why they have that flag and if they do ask,and the person honestly tells them what I posted BAM they miss that and still scream racism.

Oh an be a bit more even with it think of all the latinos waving Mexican flags celebrating their heritage,and yet no one gripes even though there are those among them that wave it for racist purposes..be fair now!

[Vlerchan]

snip.
I think what you're completely failing to understand is that whilst no Southerner may be actively promoting racism to many in the world - read: everywhere outside the old confederate states - the confederate flag represents racism and symbolises race divisions in the South. Many in the world are offended by such symbology. You can define the Confederate flag to represent anything you want it to represent - Southerners; America; Feminism; Communism; Gay Pride; Puppies; whatever - but that doesn't mean that a large majority of people you might come across will interpret it the same.

And that's largely where my argument lies. I'm cool with people being proud of their heritage; rock that flag; banner; sigil; badge; sticker; etc. But be aware that people may - and in some cases probably will - take it up the wrong way. It's why I feel that banning such a controversial symbol in a diverse public area such as a school is the correct precautionary measure to take.

[Zenos]

I think what you're completely failing to understand is that whilst no Southerner may be actively promoting racism to many in the world - read: everywhere outside the old confederate states - the confederate flag represents racism and symbolises race divisions in the South. Many in the world are offended by such symbology. You can define the Confederate flag to represent anything you want it to represent - Southerners; America; Feminism; Communism; Gay Pride; Puppies; whatever - but that doesn't mean that a large majority of people you might come across will interpret it the same.

And that's largely where my argument lies. I'm cool with people being proud of their heritage; rock that flag; banner; sigil; badge; sticker; etc. But be aware that people may - and in some cases probably will - take it up the wrong way. It's why I feel that banning such a controversial symbol in a diverse public area such as a school is the correct precautionary measure to take.

It would help first if they would you know stop having such aknee jerk Oh we know sooooo much better then you about what it means even though you are from there reaction and start asking people from here what it means to them.

if they would do that and we here in the south could get the chance to point out that it's not about race or racism with out the know it al rolling their eyes back in their skulls and screaming asnine BS then there would be less of a knee jerk reaction.

[thatcountrykid]

It would help first if they would you know stop having such aknee jerk Oh we know sooooo much better then you about what it means even though you are from there reaction and start asking people from here what it means to them.

if they would do that and we here in the south could get the chance to point out that it's not about race or racism with out the know it al rolling their eyes back in their skulls and screaming asnine BS then there would be less of a knee jerk reaction.

Exactly! No one even gives us the chance at school. For example, last year my physical science teacher, who is black, saw my phone background which is a confederate flag. He said "you onow thats a racist flag right daniel?" I replied saying " well sir some may see it that way but that is not why i have it on my phone." And he just rolled his eyes and huffed. Never even took a second to think about alltbe times i have talked tk him before and not once did i treat him different.

[Zenos]

Exactly! No one even gives us the chance at school. For example, last year my physical science teacher, who is black, saw my phone background which is a confederate flag. He said "you onow thats a racist flag right daniel?" I replied saying " well sir some may see it that way but that is not why i have it on my phone." And he just rolled his eyes and huffed. Never even took a second to think about alltbe times i have talked tk him before and not once did i treat him different.


he is the product of Knee jerk conditioning that's for sure.

[thatcountrykid]

he is the product of Knee jerk conditioning that's for sure.

All he saw was the flag. Not the person.

[canadaboy44]

your confederate flag is no longer the flag representing your country, the Star Spangled banner is, therefore it is also no longer recognized throughout the world, a Colombian flag, or Venezuelan flag is accepted, you civil war was about the slavery issue,confederates were in favour of slavery, similar to why the Nazi flag is frowned upon, u can have it inside your house, but not in public

[Sugaree]

your confederate flag is no longer the flag representing your country, the Star Spangled banner is, therefore it is also no longer recognized throughout the world, a Colombian flag, or Venezuelan flag is accepted, you civil war was about the slavery issue,confederates were in favour of slavery, similar to why the Nazi flag is frowned upon, u can have it inside your house, but not in public

News flash: the confederate flag did not represent the entire country.

[thatcountrykid]

your confederate flag is no longer the flag representing your country, the Star Spangled banner is, therefore it is also no longer recognized throughout the world, a Colombian flag, or Venezuelan flag is accepted, you civil war was about the slavery issue,confederates were in favour of slavery, similar to why the Nazi flag is frowned upon, u can have it inside your house, but not in public

And who are you to tell me what to do? Im sorry if it bothers you but its my heritage and i will wear it and display it with pride. As was said before most confederates were fighting for their homes. A majority didnt even own slaves.

[Lovelife090994]

And who are you to tell me what to do? Im sorry if it bothers you but its my heritage and i will wear it and display it with pride. As was said before most confederates were fighting for their homes. A majority didnt even own slaves.

Are you really that ignorant to history? The Confederacy stood for racism and broke away from the United States. No, not every Southerner owned slaves that is true but many were and still are prejudiced if not racist. Are you? I doubt it. The flag is a warning to anyone. It is offensive, not good and if seen, leave.

[thatcountrykid]

Are you really that ignorant to history? The Confederacy stood for racism and broke away from the United States. No, not every Southerner owned slaves that is true but many were and still are prejudiced if not racist. Are you? I doubt it. The flag is a warning to anyone. It is offensive, not good and if seen, leave.

I dont think im the ingnorant one. History is written by the victors. A major cause in the war was slavery yes. The actual fight was because the southern states left. They felt that their rights were being taken away. My stateis a perfect example of this. Multiple counties are wanting to break away because they do not agree with our state and dont like the new gun laws. And no i am not racist.

[tovaris]

You don't see German soldiers waving Nazi flags around, do you?

many germans do fly natzy flags especaly nowerdays. And to conpare the natzy and confederate is yust wrong. Natzy were the opresors while the confederate were the opressed.

[Laquifa]

You know that flag represented the people who wanted to enslave blacks and would most likely hate latinos? There US has a flag and you can use that instead, I think it would be more healthy. Your school's measures are okay.
Are you really that ignorant to history? The Confederacy stood for racism and broke away from the United States. No, not every Southerner owned slaves that is true but many were and still are prejudiced if not racist. Are you? I doubt it. The flag is a warning to anyone. It is offensive, not good and if seen, leave.
Because people have suffered historically because of the racism under that flag.


These.
The entire story behind the Confederate flag is a history of pain and torture of millions of African-Americans (or would it be Africans, since technically they didn't immigrate because they were not legal US citizens) that did absolutely no wrong to anyone that mistreated them like they were trash and inhuman. It's a good move for your principal to not allow the Confederate flag, because the history of it is something that I highly doubt that your entire school would want to have attached to it. I go to a predominately black school, and it's just an unspoken rule to not have the Confederate flag around. NOT BEING RACIST, but it can be assumed that you're white. You don't hear stories of how your ancestors were beaten, raped, shot, stabbed, mutilated, and tortured just for being black (which to me is not understandable, because how a human can mistreat another human being in such a grotesque way is so beyond me it's ridiculous), and you don't know the pain that millions of people had to go through all in the name of money. In my opinion, I feel the Confederate flag should be barred from the US completely, because the history of it is so toxic it's not even a joke.


But the flag does not represent racism. Some of the people who followed the flag were racist. As i said we dont use the flag in a racist manner.

Not being a dick, but the history of how it has been used is just offensive. Instead of that flag, maybe another flag from another heritage, like if you are Louisiana Creole, a fleur-de-lis instead?

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

many germans do fly natzy flags especaly nowerdays. And to conpare the natzy and confederate is yust wrong. Natzy were the opresors while the confederate were the opressed.

Tell that to the slaves they kept. One of the reasons they rebelled was Lincoln's stance against slavery, and that's what kept the war going for so long. They wouldn't accept peace unless Lincoln allowed them to keep slaves. For the Union, it was either slavery or war, and our President chose the latter. Probably the noblest cause the United States has ever fought for.

[thatcountrykid]

These.
The entire story behind the Confederate flag is a history of pain and torture of millions of African-Americans (or would it be Africans, since technically they didn't immigrate because they were not legal US citizens) that did absolutely no wrong to anyone that mistreated them like they were trash and inhuman. It's a good move for your principal to not allow the Confederate flag, because the history of it is something that I highly doubt that your entire school would want to have attached to it. I go to a predominately black school, and it's just an unspoken rule to not have the Confederate flag around. NOT BEING RACIST, but it can be assumed that you're white. You don't hear stories of how your ancestors were beaten, raped, shot, stabbed, mutilated, and tortured just for being black (which to me is not understandable, because how a human can mistreat another human being in such a grotesque way is so beyond me it's ridiculous), and you don't know the pain that millions of people had to go through all in the name of money. In my opinion, I feel the Confederate flag should be barred from the US completely, because the history of it is so toxic it's not even a joke.




Not being a dick, but the history of how it has been used is just offensive. Instead of that flag, maybe another flag from another heritage, like if you are Louisiana Creole, a fleur-de-lis instead?

Im a rebel. Im a country boy. Some might say a confederate. It is my heritage. If you ban my heritage, ban them all. Taking away my rights but no one elses, might as well make slavery legall again. See what i mean?

[Lovelife090994]

Im a rebel. Im a country boy. Some might say a confederate. It is my heritage. If you ban my heritage, ban them all. Taking away my rights but no one elses, might as well make slavery legall again. See what i mean?

You sound awfully angry if not terrible! You never display offensive displays and that flag is of the Confederacy. This thread has said it time and time again it is offensive and not an American heritage symbol but a racist Confederate symbol.

No, I fail to grasp your reasoning. You wish to ban real unoffensive culture to display your offensive symbol which is not to do with culture? You must be a Southerner because me being a Northerner I do not see your reasoning. I do not get it. Most know that the Confederate flag is not a good sign and maybe you're denying it because you don't want to but that is no excuse.

Your heritage is your homestate, country of birth, family's origins, customs, not hateful ideas like racism.

[thatcountrykid]

You sound awfully angry if not terrible! You never display offensive displays and that flag is of the Confederacy. This thread has said it time and time again it is offensive and not an American heritage symbol but a racist Confederate symbol.

No, I fail to grasp your reasoning. You wish to ban real unoffensive culture to display your offensive symbol which is not to do with culture? You must be a Southerner because me being a Northerner I do not see your reasoning. I do not get it. Most know that the Confederate flag is not a good sign and maybe you're denying it because you don't want to but that is no excuse.

Your heritage is your homestate, country of birth, family's origins, customs, not hateful ideas like racism.

Wouldnt you be angry if someone is trying to tell you your culture isnt real? I am not denying it. Some culture that is unoffensive to you, may be ofeensive to me. See how that works. What was suggested before was
Not so different than what hitler originally did to the jews.

My family comes from the south. They fought for the confederacy. Racism is not my heritage. That flag is my heritage.

[Lovelife090994]

Wouldnt you be angry if someone is trying to tell you your culture isnt real? I am not denying it. Some culture that is unoffensive to you, may be ofeensive to me. See how that works. What was suggested before was
Not so different than what hitler originally did to the jews.

My family comes from the south. They fought for the confederacy. Racism is not my heritage. That flag is my heritage.


Hello, Earth to you! Have you any idea what the Confederacy was fighting for? Slavery! Racism! Why do you think the North was fighting?
You need to learn some history. Your heritage is your home state and family's home state or states, not the Confederacy. Do not bring Hitler into this. He was a raving lunatic who hated Jews for no reason!

[tovaris]

Tell that to the slaves they kept. One of the reasons they rebelled was Lincoln's stance against slavery, and that's what kept the war going for so long. They wouldn't accept peace unless Lincoln allowed them to keep slaves. For the Union, it was either slavery or war, and our President chose the latter. Probably the noblest cause the United States has ever fought for.

Lincoln kept his own slawe!
Slawery wasnt the reason for war! The reason was land and power. The union wpuld newer alow the confederate states togo on their own...
There was no nobal cause! Slawery didnt mather to them, let me reming you that many generals of the union had their own slaves and that the union refused to exept ex slaves into their army while the konfederates did.

[Sugaree]

ITT: liberals gang up on someone who's powerless

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Lincoln kept his own slawe!
Slawery wasnt the reason for war! The reason was land and power. The union wpuld newer alow the confederate states togo on their own...
There was no nobal cause! Slawery didnt mather to them, let me reming you that many generals of the union had their own slaves and that the union refused to exept ex slaves into their army while the konfederates did.

Abolishing slavery was one of Lincoln's goal in the Civil War, along with maintaining the Union's territorial integrity. Sure, Lincoln's primary goal was to reunite the Union and put down the rebellion, but you can't write off the Emancipation Proclamation just cause you feel like it.

Freeing the slaves brought the North one step closer to ending the war, but it wasn't just an effort to end the war. Slavery might not have been the only reason the war started, but it was probably the most important one.

The Proclamation wasn't perfect, true, but Abolitionism is practically rooted in it. The 13th Amendment, which completely outlawed slavery, is more or less an evolution of Lincoln's policies. So, all those generals you claim owned slaves didn't own them anymore. Lincoln's " slaves " pretty much enjoyed the same freedom the freedmen did.

[tovaris]

Abolishing slavery was one of Lincoln's goal in the Civil War, along with maintaining the Union's territorial integrity. Sure, Lincoln's primary goal was to reunite the Union and put down the rebellion, but you can't write off the Emancipation Proclamation just cause you feel like it.

Freeing the slaves brought the North one step closer to ending the war, but it wasn't just an effort to end the war. Slavery might not have been the only reason the war started, but it was probably the most important one.

The Proclamation wasn't perfect, true, but Abolitionism is practically rooted in it. The 13th Amendment, which completely outlawed slavery, is more or less an evolution of Lincoln's policies. So, all those generals you claim owned slaves didn't own them anymore. Lincoln's " slaves " pretty much enjoyed the same freedom the freedmen did.

Slawery was newer seeson for war, it was yust a dam good PR campain to make sure hystory will remember the "right" side faught for the "right" cause. If one looks at the reesons of why the war got sttarted wee see that slawery had nothing to do with it.
There being nothing wrong about awtloaing slavery of course but tell me then why didnt the north let free slaves join their armys? While the south did!

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Slawery was newer seeson for war, it was yust a dam good PR campain to make sure hystory will remember the "right" side faught for the "right" cause. If one looks at the reesons of why the war got sttarted wee see that slawery had nothing to do with it.
There being nothing wrong about awtloaing slavery of course but tell me then why didnt the north let free slaves join their armys? While the south did!

1. Learn how to spell.

2. The North did let slaves join the army. Abolishing slavery was a war effort as well, and its one of the things that secured victory for the Union. Lincoln's abolitionist campaign before he took office evolved into an agenda he pursued after he was elected. It's also one of the things that caused so much tension between the North and the Southern States, whose whole economies stood on the backbones of slaves. As for your last claim, that's just plain dumb. The South didn't let free slaves join their armies because they didn't have any. They were slavers. They conscripted slaves, true, but most of them threw down their arms and ran over the border into the Union as soon as they had an opportunity to do so. You know why? Because the North offered something the South denied them: Liberty.

And yes, the Union did fight for a good cause. Which is why Lincoln is one of the most loved leaders of all time. Just wanted to throw that out there.

[Laquifa]

Im a rebel. Im a country boy. Some might say a confederate. It is my heritage. If you ban my heritage, ban them all. Taking away my rights but no one elses, might as well make slavery legall again. See what i mean?

By claiming you are a Confederate, then you agree wholeheartedly with the entire platform of the Confederacy and completely support everything it stood for. The Confederacy is not a heritage (heritage is well defined in the below quote). Not being a dick, but comparing the distrust and the resistance of your right to display Confederate pride (which the Confederacy has ceased existence for over 100 years) is no different than a German who had family that fought under the Nazi regime of Hitler arguing that it's OK for him to display Nazi pride and throw swastikas around a group of Jewish people because "it's heritage" and "it's his/her right". And yes, it's appropriate to compare the Confederacy to the Nazi regime of Adolf Hitler.

You sound awfully angry if not terrible! You never display offensive displays and that flag is of the Confederacy. This thread has said it time and time again it is offensive and not an American heritage symbol but a racist Confederate symbol.

No, I fail to grasp your reasoning. You wish to ban real unoffensive culture to display your offensive symbol which is not to do with culture? You must be a Southerner because me being a Northerner I do not see your reasoning. I do not get it. Most know that the Confederate flag is not a good sign and maybe you're denying it because you don't want to but that is no excuse.

Your heritage is your homestate, country of birth, family's origins, customs, not hateful ideas like racism.

Agreeing with all of this (minus the northerner part, I'm from Virginia and have lived there since birth), but just knowing the amount of pain that could have possibly happened on the very ground that I walk on daily makes me sick. Even if I was white, I couldn't display that symbol of oppression, it's just wrong.

[tovaris]

1. Learn how to spell.

2. The North did let slaves join the army. Abolishing slavery was a war effort as well, and its one of the things that secured victory for the Union. Lincoln's abolitionist campaign before he took office evolved into an agenda he pursued after he was elected. It's also one of the things that caused so much tension between the North and the Southern States, whose whole economies stood on the backbones of slaves. As for your last claim, that's just plain dumb. The South didn't let free slaves join their armies because they didn't have any. They were slavers. They conscripted slaves, true, but most of them threw down their arms and ran over the border into the Union as soon as they had an opportunity to do so. You know why? Because the North offered something the South denied them: Liberty.

And yes, the Union did fight for a good cause. Which is why Lincoln is one of the most loved leaders of all time. Just wanted to throw that out there.

1. Learn to read: "If you find any spelling mistakes or typographical errors in my posts please report them to me immediately so that I can correct them."

2. The south alowed free slaves from the north and the states whish svitched sides to join their army.
Why do you hate the confederation so much thy were yust defending themselves.
Wictory was secured for the norty by money and not some made up cause. Resno no pa kje ti žviš
Is it realy so hard to let a country be?
Yeeees lyberty we see that so clerly today... right...

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

\
2. The south alowed free slaves from the north and the states whish svitched sides to join their army.
Why do you hate the confederation so much thy were yust defending themselves.
Wictory was secured for the norty by money and not some made up cause. Resno no pa kje ti žviš
Is it realy so hard to let a country be?
Yeeees lyberty we see that so clerly today... right...

There was no freedom for black people in the South. Even if they were freedmen in the North, they'd get sold just as soon as they put a foot in Confederate territory. Or, as I said earlier, get conscripted. And eventually run away. Cause no one in their right mind would fight on the side that will put you in chains if they have their way.

I dislike the Confederacy because they were a bunch of racist, traitorous scumbags. They were not defending themselves. They were the ones that started the war, they were the ones that fired the first shot. And yes, it's hard to let a country be if they're looking to take half your land and start killing your people.

And we're not discussing the current state of affairs in my country. We're talking about the Civil war, and the freedom that the 13th Amendment brought to millions.

[thatcountrykid]

Hello, Earth to you! Have you any idea what the Confederacy was fighting for? Slavery! Racism! Why do you think the North was fighting?
You need to learn some history. Your heritage is your home state and family's home state or states, not the Confederacy. Do not bring Hitler into this. He was a raving lunatic who hated Jews for no reason!

It is my heritage. And telling me to just ignore i because you and a few others may not like it, thats oppresive. Reminds me of what the conquistadors did to natives dont you think?

By claiming you are a Confederate, then you agree wholeheartedly with the entire platform of the Confederacy and completely support everything it stood for. The Confederacy is not a heritage (heritage is well defined in the below quote). Not being a dick, but comparing the distrust and the resistance of your right to display Confederate pride (which the Confederacy has ceased existence for over 100 years) is no different than a German who had family that fought under the Nazi regime of Hitler arguing that it's OK for him to display Nazi pride and throw swastikas around a group of Jewish people because "it's heritage" and "it's his/her right". And yes, it's appropriate to compare the Confederacy to the Nazi regime of Adolf Hitler.


Agreeing with all of this (minus the northerner part, I'm from Virginia and have lived there since birth), but just knowing the amount of pain that could have possibly happened on the very ground that I walk on daily makes me sick. Even if I was white, I couldn't display that symbol of oppression, it's just wrong.

Your right. I do beleive to stand up for my states rights and my rights as a citizen. Am i racist? No. It is my heritage. It is what my family stood for and where they came from.

And to be honest, if he wants to fly that swastika, then by all means. Theres a quote that unfortunately doesn't seem upheld or believed in anymors. " i do not agree with what you have to say, but i will defend to the death your right to say it."

[tovaris]

There was no freedom for black people in the South. Even if they were freedmen in the North, they'd get sold just as soon as they put a foot in Confederate territory. Or, as I said earlier, get conscripted. And eventually run away. Cause no one in their right mind would fight on the side that will put you in chains if they have their way.

I dislike the Confederacy because they were a bunch of racist, traitorous scumbags. They were not defending themselves. They were the ones that started the war, they were the ones that fired the first shot. And yes, it's hard to let a country be if they're looking to take half your land and start killing your people.

And we're not discussing the current state of affairs in my country. We're talking about the Civil war, and the freedom that the 13th Amendment brought to millions.

If they faught for the south they would remain free, with this move the south took advantage of the norths reluktance to accept ex slaven into their army.

They WERE defending themselves and their beliefs.
The first shots were fired by the NORTH.
The land was their to start with, any state can leave at any time if they wish since after all it if a federatively organised country.
Theyr enternal aferes did not consern others, they were their enternal afaires not to be settled by a blody war.

Whel even then your industrial worker had no rights... and the curent state is merly the result of the norths rule!

It is my heritage. And telling me to just ignore i because you and a few others may not like it, thats oppresive. Reminds me of what the conquistadors did to natives dont you think?

[thatcountrykid]

P
There was no freedom for black people in the South. Even if they were freedmen in the North, they'd get sold just as soon as they put a foot in Confederate territory. Or, as I said earlier, get conscripted. And eventually run away. Cause no one in their right mind would fight on the side that will put you in chains if they have their way.

I dislike the Confederacy because they were a bunch of racist, traitorous scumbags. They were not defending themselves. They were the ones that started the war, they were the ones that fired the first shot. And yes, it's hard to let a country be if they're looking to take half your land and start killing your people.

And we're not discussing the current state of affairs in my country. We're talking about the Civil war, and the freedom that the 13th Amendment brought to millions.

Ever hear of the right of secession?

[Lovelife090994]

P


Ever hear of the right of secession?

You really hate the idea of a unifed country do you?

[thatcountrykid]

You really hate the idea of a unifed country do you?

No i love it. Im glad america is the way
It is asude from the people running it. I forgot exactly where i say it but i know it is the right of the people to better the government if they beleive it has become corrupt. " the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time"

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

If they faught for the south they would remain free, with this move the south took advantage of the norths reluktance to accept ex slaven into their army.

They WERE defending themselves and their beliefs.
The first shots were fired by the NORTH.
The land was their to start with, any state can leave at any time if they wish since after all it if a federatively organised country.
Theyr enternal aferes did not consern others, they were their enternal afaires not to be settled by a blody war.

Whel even then your industrial worker had no rights... and the curent state is merly the result of the norths rule!

You have no idea what you're talking about. Read a book. Look it up online. The Confederacy didn't have any free slaves. The men they forced into the army would never be free, irregardless of the outcome. And again: The Union did accept slaves into the army.

The South started the war. Again, educate yourself on the subject before discussing it. Read this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Sumter).

The states cannot secede from the Union. That's treason. Texas is the only state that could, hypothetically speaking, legally secede from the Union under the right circumstances. Their internal affairs ceased to be internal when they disobeyed an Executive Order from the highest authority in the country, which was also passed in Congress.

We're going off-topic with the discussion of today's America, but I'd just like to say...we like it here. We don't feel oppressed. We can't be sold into slavery. I'd say Lincoln and his successors did a damn good job.

[Sugaree]

You really hate the idea of a unifed country do you?

And you really hate the idea of personal freedom. So what if a state wants to secede from the union? They should have every right to do so.

[World Eater]

I don't see it as racist. I just see it as another symbol. I don't like it, but I don't care at the same time. You like it? Fine. You hate it? Fine. I have other things to do than worry about a mere flag being hung up around the neighborhood.

[Desuetude]

But the flag does not represent racism. Some of the people who followed the flag were racist. As i said we dont use the flag in a racist manner.
Sorry to quote from right at the beginning but yeah just had something to chip in. I guess you using the flag of your state is like me waving around a swastika. Did you know that originally the swastika was an Indian symbol meaning good and peace. Not harming anybody and it's something to be proud of that people can show off. However them come along the Nazis that steal the design making it their own and completely flip the meaning of the whole symbol.

So now if you saw someone waving a flag with a swastika on it, it would be considered offensive and rude, it's not allowed. Even though the original roots had good intentions it's been abused so much that it's become harmful. I know your flag might not be as offensive as the swastika but what I'm getting at is the principal. If there has been past racism established with your flag then maybe it's just the best idea to put it to one side. Have it up in your home, no ones stopping you but in public you just have to be careful not to offend people and by the sounds of it that's what it seems like you're doing.

Edit: Just read back through and seen that this has been brought up already but that's just my opinion on it so don't reply or do but thought I'd add a little in.

[Sugaree]

Sorry to quote from right at the beginning but yeah just had something to chip in. I guess you using the flag of your state is like me waving around a swastika. Did you know that originally the swastika was an Indian symbol meaning good and peace. Not harming anybody and it's something to be proud of that people can show off. However them come along the Nazis that steal the design making it their own and completely flip the meaning of the whole symbol.

So now if you saw someone waving a flag with a swastika on it, it would be considered offensive and rude, it's not allowed. Even though the original roots had good intentions it's been abused so much that it's become harmful. I know your flag might not be as offensive as the swastika but what I'm getting at is the principal. If there has been past racism established with your flag then maybe it's just the best idea to put it to one side. Have it up in your home, no ones stopping you but in public you just have to be careful not to offend people and by the sounds of it that's what it seems like you're doing.

No, it's because all the butthurt social justice warriors in this thread get so fucking in an uproar over every little thing and they cry out "RACISM!". He's not offending anybody by wearing a Confederate belt buckle or having a Confederate flag fly on his property. Unless he's trying to draw attention to it and pushing propaganda about the Confederacy to people, then there's a problem.

[Desuetude]

No, it's because all the butthurt social justice warriors in this thread get so fucking in an uproar over every little thing and they cry out "RACISM!". He's not offending anybody by wearing a Confederate belt buckle or having a Confederate flag fly on his property. Unless he's trying to draw attention to it and pushing propaganda about the Confederacy to people, then there's a problem.
Okay fair enough. I don't know the flags of the countys in the UK let alone the states of the US so I was just going with what everyone else had said.

[Paige Elizabeth]

No. If you think the confederate flag is racist, please leave. It's not racist. How is a FLAG racist? That's absurd .

[tovaris]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Read a book. Look it up online. The Confederacy didn't have any free slaves. The men they forced into the army would never be free, irregardless of the outcome. And again: The Union did accept slaves into the army.


Free black man freed by the war! The union actuly passed a ducument saing slaves couldn't join their army. Look it up!


The South started the war. Again, educate yourself on the subject before discussing it. Read this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Sumter).

Seriously Wikipedia? Tat is not a reliable source, it isn't even worth searcing for anything more tha photos.
First shots were fired by the opresors.



The states cannot secede from the Union. That's treason. Texas is the only state that could, hypothetically speaking, legally secede from the Union under the right circumstances. Their internal affairs ceased to be internal when they disobeyed an Executive Order from the highest authority in the country, which was also passed in Congress.


They yoined the unian and can leave it, their constitution is wery simple (the shortest constitution in the world). Its not treson if you are folowing the will of The People!
One cannot and wil not mes with enternal afaired in anothe country!


We're going off-topic with the discussion of today's America, but I'd just like to say...we like it here. We don't feel oppressed. We can't be sold into slavery. I'd say Lincoln and his successors did a damn good job.

Whel than you would be suprised to know that 90%o the rest of the worlf feels sory for you or hates your guts for opression? :P

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Free black man freed by the war! The union actuly passed a ducument saing slaves couldn't join their army. Look it up!


I did. Both freedmen and runaway slaves from the South could join the army if they wanted to. Give me a source saying otherwise.


Seriously Wikipedia? Tat is not a reliable source, it isn't even worth searcing for anything more tha photos.
First shots were fired by the opresors.


Oh yeah, it's not like Wikipedia is the best online encyclopedia or anything. But sure, here's another source (http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/faq/). The Civil War started when Confederate battleships bombarded Fort Sumter.



They yoined the unian and can leave it, their constitution is wery simple (the shortest constitution in the world). Its not treson if you are folowing the will of The People!
One cannot and wil not mes with enternal afaired in anothe country!

They cannot leave it. It's illegal. If you break the oaths you swore, if you break the law, that's considered treason.

And again, it's not another country. The states were federal entities of the United States, they weren't sovereign nations. As such, they were bound by law to respect Lincoln's Executive Order.


Whel than you would be suprised to know that 90%o the rest of the worlf feels sory for you or hates your guts for opression? :P

Oppression...God, do you actually think before you type this shit? American is oppressive, and the Middle Eastern countries aren't? What about North Korea? You have no idea what true oppression looks like. This doesn't even dignify any further response. You're a communist, and you blindly hate our country and our very way of life for no rational reason whatsoever. There's no point in trying to dissuade you from your incredible misconceptions.

[Cygnus]

Whel than you would be suprised to know that 90%o the rest of the worlf feels sory for you or hates your guts for opression? :P

Oppression...God, do you actually think before you type this shit? American is oppressive, and the Middle Eastern countries aren't? What about North Korea? You have no idea what true oppression looks like. This doesn't even dignify any further response. You're a communist, and you blindly hate our country and our very way of life for no rational reason whatsoever. There's no point in trying to dissuade you from your incredible misconceptions.

Listen, we are discussing whether the confederate flag is racist or not, this is not a discussion about the current state of the US, please do not start a side topic.

[johndoe1112]

dude the swatiza use to have a good meaning until hitler took it and turned it and now it has a whole new meaning but you still can have on because it is offencive to many many people

[Mastretta]

And you really hate the idea of personal freedom. So what if a state wants to secede from the union? They should have every right to do so.
You like furies, you have no say.:yeah:

Im a rebel. Im a country boy. Some might say a confederate. It is my heritage. If you ban my heritage, ban them all. Taking away my rights but no one elses, might as well make slavery legall again. See what i mean?
You keep saying it's you heritage over and over and over and over again:yawn:. To be honest I think you don't understand the whole meaning of the flag and you're just trying to make a big deal because of what you were taught (which is a load of BS) so I do feel bad for you because your only argument is "It is my heritage." Your heritage is mostly taking land and killing people.
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k160/BunnyWurb/giffy%203/tumblr_luirwwcuap1r3xg8ko4_250.gif

[tovaris]

I did. Both freedmen and runaway slaves from the South could join the army if they wanted to. Give me a source saying otherwise.



Oh yeah, it's not like Wikipedia is the best online encyclopedia or anything. But sure, here's another source (http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/faq/). The Civil War started when Confederate battleships bombarded Fort Sumter.



They cannot leave it. It's illegal. If you break the oaths you swore, if you break the law, that's considered treason.

And again, it's not another country. The states were federal entities of the United States, they weren't sovereign nations. As such, they were bound by law to respect Lincoln's Executive Order.



Oppression...God, do you actually think before you type this shit? American is oppressive, and the Middle Eastern countries aren't? What about North Korea? You have no idea what true oppression looks like. This doesn't even dignify any further response. You're a communist, and you blindly hate our country and our very way of life for no rational reason whatsoever. There's no point in trying to dissuade you from your incredible misconceptions.

Listen, we are discussing whether the confederate flag is racist or not, this is not a discussion about the current state of the US, please do not start a side topic.

thank you.

[Sugaree]

You like furies, you have no say.:yeah:

And this changes the validity of opinions...how?

[thatcountrykid]

You like furies, you have no say.:yeah:


You keep saying it's you heritage over and over and over and over again:yawn:. To be honest I think you don't understand the whole meaning of the flag and you're just trying to make a big deal because of what you were taught (which is a load of BS) so I do feel bad for you because your only argument is "It is my heritage." Your heritage is mostly taking land and killing people.
image (http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k160/BunnyWurb/giffy%203/tumblr_luirwwcuap1r3xg8ko4_250.gif)

I dont want your grief an i definatly dont need it. It is my heritage it is where my family cones from. My heritage is standing up for your rights.

[Mastretta]

And you really hate the idea of personal freedom. So what if a state wants to secede from the union? They should have every right to do so.

Im a rebel. Im a country boy. Some might say a confederate. It is my heritage. If you ban my heritage, ban them all. Taking away my rights but no one elses, might as well make slavery legall again. See what i mean?

I dont want your grief an i definatly dont need it. It is my heritage it is where my family cones from. My heritage is standing up for your rights.

I get it, you don't understand who the Confederates were. Confederates were pro-slavery("Your heritage.") And the union(United states) were against it. So again "Your heritage" wanted blacks as slaves 0_0, so therefor you/family gave me 0 freedom :yeah:
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/tanisha-eye-roll.gif

And this changes the validity of opinions...how?
Because I say so :yeah:
http://media1.policymic.com/site/articles/items/13187/1_gif.gif

Slawery was newer seeson for war, it was yust a dam good PR campain to make sure hystory will remember the "right" side faught for the "right" cause. If one looks at the reesons of why the war got sttarted wee see that slawery had nothing to do with it.
There being nothing wrong about awtloaing slavery of course but tell me then why didnt the north let free slaves join their armys? While the south did!

1. Learn to read: "If you find any spelling mistakes or typographical errors in my posts please report them to me immediately so that I can correct them."

2. The south alowed free slaves from the north and the states whish svitched sides to join their army.
Why do you hate the confederation so much thy were yust defending themselves.
Wictory was secured for the norty by money and not some made up cause. Resno no pa kje ti žviš
Is it realy so hard to let a country be?
Yeeees lyberty we see that so clerly today... right...

Aww you can't spell D=.

All the words you have spelled wrong "Slawery
hystory
seeson
yust
campain
hystory
faught
reesons
sttarted
wee
slawery
awtloaing
armys
didnt"'

Merged triple post. -Cygnus David

[thatcountrykid]

I get it, you don't understand who the Confederates were. Confederates were pro-slavery("Your heritage.") And the union(United states) were against it. So again "Your heritage" wanted blacks as slaves 0_0, so therefor you/family gave me 0 freedom :yeah:
image (http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/tanisha-eye-roll.gif)

Beleive me i understand perfectly. Many did fight for slavery yes. But most were fighting for their homes. For their rights.

[Sugaree]

I get it, you don't understand who the Confederates were. Confederates were pro-slavery("Your heritage.") And the union(United states) were against it. So again "Your heritage" wanted blacks as slaves 0_0, so therefor you/family gave me 0 freedom :yeah:
image (http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/tanisha-eye-roll.gif)

Notice how I never denied that most Confederates were pro-slavery. That much is true. And yes, I will admit, there is indeed a history in my family of owning slaves. However, we let them go after the war ended, and while that does not automatically clear my ancestors of wrong-doing, it certainly does not give you or anyone else the right to stomp on my heritage. I'm not going to do it to you, why are you going to do it to me? Because I'm white? Because I'm from the South? That's just as discriminatory as offering no freedom to a slave.

Also, how is my family - that is, me and my parents - not giving you freedom in the present day? Don't act like you're still a slave when you're not in chains. You've got your freedom, and I have mine. But if you're going to claim that I'm abusing your freedom, at least make it seem valid. I'm not holding your ass hostage, nor is my family making your family's life miserable. Slavery was over 200 years ago. Get the fuck over it.

Because I say so :yeah:
image (http://media1.policymic.com/site/articles/items/13187/1_gif.gif)

..ok? So I guess I can say because you're black, your opinions in this thread are thus equally invalid.

[Mastretta]

Notice how I never denied that most Confederates were pro-slavery. That much is true. And yes, I will admit, there is indeed a history in my family of owning slaves. However, we let them go after the war ended, and while that does not automatically clear my ancestors of wrong-doing, it certainly does not give you or anyone else the right to stomp on my heritage. I'm not going to do it to you, why are you going to do it to me? Because I'm white? Because I'm from the South? That's just as discriminatory as offering no freedom to a slave.

Also, how is my family - that is, me and my parents - not giving you freedom in the present day? Don't act like you're still a slave when you're not in chains. You've got your freedom, and I have mine. But if you're going to claim that I'm abusing your freedom, at least make it seem valid. I'm not holding your ass hostage, nor is my family making your family's life miserable. Slavery was over 200 years ago. Get the fuck over it.



..ok? So I guess I can say because you're black, your opinions in this thread are thus equally invalid.

Sure your opinion
I don't care. My opinion is much more valid than yours ^_^

[Sugaree]

Sure your opinion
I don't care. My opinion is much more valid than yours ^_^

Your opinion is no more valid than mine. So what makes it more valid? Oh, that's right, you're black.

[Mastretta]

Beleive me i understand perfectly. Many did fight for slavery yes. But most were fighting for their homes. For their rights.

Uh finally you made a valid point. But still your school isn't wrong, if people are offended by it don't wear. Other countries flags don't have the same meaning as the confederate flag does, yes some good was in the meaning of the flag but it's all countered by the bad and no one cares they were fighting for their homes, they still wanted to keep slaves. But you're too stubborn to understand so I suggest you to stop replying to this thread because your views will stay the same and you will always be the "American" everyone hates.

[Vlerchan]

Uh finally you made a valid point. But still your school isn't wrong, if people are offended by it don't wear. Other countries flags don't have the same meaning as the confederate flag does, yes some good was in the meaning of the flag but it's all countered by the bad and no one cares they were fighting for their homes, they still wanted to keep slaves. But you're too stubborn to understand so I suggest you to stop replying to this thread because your views will stay the same and you will always be the "American" everyone hates.
You actually managed to turn me to arguing for the pro-Confederate side with your inane ramblings and hyperbole. Well done.

The Confederate Flag is a symbol. It is up to you to interpret that symbol. If you choose to interrupt the Confederate Flag in a negative way, than that is your problem. However, it is wrong to limit an individual in the ways of which they express themselves because you interpret their expression in a negative manner. Simply put: man the fuck up. Now, I'd say with rights comes responsibility and it should be the individuals responsibility to regulate their own expression for the sake of politeness - this is what I was trying to argue earlier, I don't want the symbol actually banned - however such regulation should not be forced on the individual.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

It is a symbol of racism but it isn't racist.

[thatcountrykid]

Uh finally you made a valid point. But still your school isn't wrong, if people are offended by it don't wear. Other countries flags don't have the same meaning as the confederate flag does, yes some good was in the meaning of the flag but it's all countered by the bad and no one cares they were fighting for their homes, they still wanted to keep slaves. But you're too stubborn to understand so I suggest you to stop replying to this thread because your views will stay the same and you will always be the "American" everyone hates.

You dont know me. You have no right to judge me and tell me what to do. This is my thread. I'm more american than you will ever know. My family has fought against in foreign and on the homefront. You have not right to jusdge how american i am because you know what. When people try
To challenge whats rights, i fight to make sure things stay the way they should. Whick is why im not standing down when they try to tell other students that they cant exspress their rights.

[Harry Smith]

You dont know me. You have no right to judge me and tell me what to do. This is my thread. I'm more american than you will ever know. My family has fought against in foreign and on the homefront. You have not right to jusdge how american i am because you know what. When people try
To challenge whats rights, i fight to make sure things stay the way they should. Whick is why im not standing down when they try to tell other students that they cant exspress their rights.

This may be a thread you've created but that doesn't give you immunity, you can't open up a debate about such a sensitive topic and then complain when people judge you...

i fight to make sure things stay the way they should

I sure hope you're not from the south, otherwise I'd have to tell you that the 1960's are over

[thatcountrykid]

This may be a thread you've created but that doesn't give you immunity, you can't open up a debate about such a sensitive topic and then complain when people judge you...



I sure hope you're not from the south, otherwise I'd have to tell you that the 1960's are over

This debate is about the flag and not about me. What if i am from the south. How does that change anything?

[Harry Smith]

This debate is about the flag and not about me. What if i am from the south. How does that change anything?

I was alluding to the fact that you're using an argument used by the Southerns to stop Desegregation and just how ironic it is that you're saying you're fighting to keep things the same... but knowing you're views you're probably in favour of segregation

[Sugaree]

I was alluding to the fact that you're using an argument used by the Southerns to stop Desegregation and just how ironic it is that you're saying you're fighting to keep things the same... but knowing you're views you're probably in favour of segregation

Again, this thread keeps being deflected towards the OP and what he must apparently be in favor of because of his position on the Confederate flag being racist or not. Stick to the topic, Harry; you and plenty of others are dragging this thread through the dirt by not keeping on the topic of whether or not the flag itself is racist because you're too busy giving the OP a bad name.

[thatcountrykid]

I was alluding to the fact that you're using an argument used by the Southerns to stop Desegregation and just how ironic it is that you're saying you're fighting to keep things the same... but knowing you're views you're probably in favour of segregation

Whats with the personal attacks man? Do you just flat out hate me?

And when i say im fight for things to stay the same im mean for america to go back to its original glory where you werent made out to be a racist just because your proud of your heritage. And no im not a racist as many if you seem to think.

[Harry Smith]

Whats with the personal attacks man? Do you just flat out hate me?

And when i say im fight for things to stay the same im mean for america to go back to its original glory where you werent made out to be a racist just because your proud of your heritage. And no im not a racist as many if you seem to think.

I certainly don't hate you, I hate racism and problems that it's caused for the last 50 years.

back to its original glory where you werent made out to be a racist just because your proud of your heritage

This to be looks like a PR way of trying to avoid something, I assume this time you're talking about is pre-1960's?

I can understand why the Confederate flag would cause offense to students- heck if I was Black and saw someone wearing that around school I would certainly question that. If you want to be proud of your heritage that's great- but I'm sure that Black students are not proud of the southern white heritage which locked them up in chains

[thatcountrykid]

I certainly don't hate you, I hate racism and problems that it's caused for the last 50 years.



This to be looks like a PR way of trying to avoid something, I assume this time you're talking about is pre-1960's?

I can understand why the Confederate flag would cause offense to students- heck if I was Black and saw someone wearing that around school I would certainly question that. If you want to be proud of your heritage that's great- but I'm sure that Black students are not proud of the southern white heritage which locked them up in chains

No i mean the way if life in the founding days of the country where you could own a gun and not be feared and you could say god in school without being yelled at by teachers. And no offense to them but thats their problem.

[Zenos]

I get it, you don't understand who the Confederates were. Confederates were pro-slavery("Your heritage.") And the union(United states) were against it. So again "Your heritage" wanted blacks as slaves 0_0, so therefor you/family gave me 0 freedom :yeah:
image (http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/tanisha-eye-roll.gif)


Because I say so :yeah:
image (http://media1.policymic.com/site/articles/items/13187/1_gif.gif)





Aww you can't spell D=.

All the words you have spelled wrong "Slawery
hystory
seeson
yust
campain
hystory
faught
reesons
sttarted
wee
slawery
awtloaing
armys
didnt"'

Merged triple post. -Cygnus David

u do know the first slave owner in what was to become the usa was black and until then black where at first identured servants just like white indentured servants.plus in the south the only slave owmers where rich whited and the rich freeblack.the constitution of the confederacy left it to the individual stated as to slavery

[Cpt_Cutter]

The "cause" is pride for my heritage. I'm not a racist. This flag is pride for my way of life and where my family comes from. Why is it ok for someone from mexico ti have their flag for the same reasons and i cant?


To put it really bluntly because war crimes were not committed (or at-least are no where nearly as well known about as the american civil war or WW2) under the Mexican flag.

(And before anyone goes off against me for inferring the south committed war crimes, they did, and so did the north. I don't think I even need to discuss WW2)

[thatcountrykid]

To put it really bluntly because war crimes were not committed (or at-least are no where nearly as well known about as the american civil war or WW2) under the Mexican flag.

(And before anyone goes off against me for inferring the south committed war crimes, they did, and so did the north. I don't think I even need to discuss WW2)

Just because they are not well known does not make them less severe. Yes the south may have committed war crimes but those crimes have been paid for. It has been over 150 years.

[Cpt_Cutter]

Just because they are not well known does not make them less severe. Yes the south may have committed war crimes but those crimes have been paid for. It has been over 150 years.

Were they paid for though? are war crimes ever really paid for and forgotten?

[thatcountrykid]

Were they paid for though? are war crimes ever really paid for and forgotten?

Unless people want to be miserable complainers all their life then yes.

[HistoricWrath]

It all comes down to how it's being used. I'm not denying that there are hateful messages attached to it but that isn't necessarily the case in every use of the battle flag. I say battle flag because while it was a part of the national flag of the confederacy the "confederate flag" everybody knows was the battle flag carried by confederates into battle during the Civil War. When looking at it from a historical standpoint like organizations putting them on confederate graves in cemeteries, despite what some local governments will say, I don't feel like it's offensive. But when the Sons of Confederate Veterans fly massive battle flags a block away from Martin Luther King Drive then it's offensive. I feel like a historical symbol has been twisted into being something that can be seen as nothing but offensive by a group of individuals that scream "Heritage not Hate" but have no idea about the supposed heritage they are "defending" That's just my two cents if its even worth that.

[workingatperfect]

As someone else pointed out, it's the confederate flag, of the confederate soldiers, who fought for slavery. Why can't you just do an American flag, or your state's flag or something?
Heritage: something possessed as a result of one's natural situation or birth (Source (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heritage))

Unless you had ancestors fighting for the confederates in the civil war, it is not your heritage. Also, if confederate is your "heritage," I don't see why you should be bragging about that. It literally means the quality of being racist has been passed down by default to you.

Even if now it's being used as just a "Southern pride thing" which as a southerner myself, I find idiotic... It stil holds its original purpose for many people.

[Celtic.]

It is a symbol of racism but it isn't racist.

KKK white hoods are a symbol. I want you to legitimately say they aren't racist

[Vlerchan]

KKK white hoods are a symbol. I want you to legitimately say they aren't racist
I've never heard a hood to express or promote racist ideas. Though it would be a lie to say that some individuals don't associate some hoods with such ideas - which shouldn't be a reason to ban them, I might add.

[WintersuN]

It doesn't matter if it's 'racist' or not, it's a cultural symbol that should be respected by others who aren't originally part of that culture.

[Celtic.]

I've never heard a hood to express or promote racist ideas.Though it would be a lie to say that some individuals don't associate some hoods with such ideas - which shouldn't be a reason to ban them, I might add.

the klan raped murdered and wanted my people to stay as slaves. they burned crosses on lawns and hate ALL minorities..............but you don't think we should ban them....................

[HistoricWrath]

the klan raped murdered and wanted my people to stay as slaves. they burned crosses on lawns and hate ALL minorities..............but you don't think we should ban them....................

As a strong proponent of the first amendment I have to reluctantly say no. I despise everything the Klan stands for and does, I wish they would go away and I wish there was something we could do about them, buuuuuut unfortunately they have the constitutional right to do what they do outside of murdering and raping and actually committing crimes. But their mere existence and spread of hateful propaganda is unfortunately protected under the constitution.

[Vlerchan]

the klan raped murdered and wanted my people to stay as slaves. they burned crosses on lawns and hate ALL minorities..............but you don't think we should ban them....................
The individuals who murdered and raped should be tried and prosecuted but regardless of how strongly I disagree with their hateful ideology I would never support banning their existence or views. They have a right to express their hatred of minority groups as I have a right to express my hatred of them - I'd rather we both kept those rights.

[Harry Smith]

the klan raped murdered and wanted my people to stay as slaves. they burned crosses on lawns and hate ALL minorities..............but you don't think we should ban them....................

Do you think that the black panthers and Nation of Islam should of been banned in the 1960's? They're no way as bad as the Klan but it goes by the same logic...

[Emerald Dream]

This thread is about the confederate flag, and not the KKK or other racially motivated groups. If you wish to create another thread for that, then feel free to do so.

Let's please stay on-topic.

[Celtic.]

Do you think that the black panthers and Nation of Islam should of been banned in the 1960's? They're no way as bad as the Klan but it goes by the same logic...

islam? idk but panthers yea. Panthers were about getting equal rights by basically starting war. But it was the lesser of 2 evils

[Emerald Dream]

islam? idk but panthers yea. Panthers were about getting equal rights by basically starting war. But it was the lesser of 2 evils

This off-topic. Cut it out.

[Celtic.]

as an African American I find the flag racist

[Sugaree]

islam? idk but panthers yea. Panthers were about getting equal rights by basically starting war. But it was the lesser of 2 evils

How is that fair though? Starting a war to get equal representation? By the time the Black Panthers came along, the Civil Rights Act had already been passed, which granted black Americans the same civil liberties as white Americans. War is never the lesser of two evils. Calling for the death of your opponent is not the answer. That is exactly what the Panthers wanted.

[Celtic.]

How is that fair though? Starting a war to get equal representation? By the time the Black Panthers came along, the Civil Rights Act had already been passed, which granted black Americans the same civil liberties as white Americans. War is never the lesser of two evils. Calling for the death of your opponent is not the answer. That is exactly what the Panthers wanted.

but we was still treated like shit. and we dident go around killing people because they were white.

would you rather start war or a holocaust? Nither. Which is more deadly?

[Sugaree]

would you rather start war or a holocaust? Nither. Which is more deadly?

Both are equally deadly. Are you THAT ignorant?

[Emerald Dream]

This topic was originally about whether The Confederate Flag was racist or not, and has continued to stay off-topic even after I already warned not to. It's not about the KKK. It's not about the Black Panthers. If you wish to discuss that then do it elsewhere.

Apologies to the OP of this thread, but because people can't follow a simple instruction...this thread is locked. :locked: