labor party are practically communists!

[britishboy]

everything the joke of a party says is stupid! they're making promises to get votes, that they can't keep or afford! they're practically communists!

[Cygnus]

everything the joke of a party says is stupid! they're making promises to get votes, that they can't keep or afford!

That is a really subjective thing to say. And its called populism, its a way to get votes that is used more than just a little.

[sqishy]

I think most parties do that do differing degrees. But I don't think they're communist because of that.

[britishboy]

That is a really subjective thing to say. And its called populism, its a way to get votes that is used more than just a little.

I think most parties do that do differing degrees. But I don't think they're communist because of that.

they're so left its unreal, they will give everyone everything, destroy the upper class and reverse our current economic growth

[sqishy]

they're so left its unreal, they will give everyone everything, destroy the upper class and reverse our current economic growth

I never liked the class system anyways. On other things they will have en effect on, i'll soon find out, and make my opinion on them.

[Stronk Serb]

There are currents there. Nationalization of a large part of the industry can't be a bad thing if it's done correctly. And everyone makes promises for votes. It' s how the system works lol. And they are not outright communists. They are a fair way to go. They are better then UKiP anyway.

[britishboy]

I never liked the class system anyways. On other things they will have en effect on, i'll soon find out, and make my opinion on them.
you would like it if you do well in life, with out a class system one's country turns into a dictatorship, FREEDOM! they're blagging their way though, hate the rich and will destroy our economy!
There are currents there. Nationalization of a large part of the industry can't be a bad thing if it's done correctly. And everyone makes promises for votes. It' s how the system works lol. And they are not outright communists. They are a fair way to go. They are better then UKiP anyway.
they ain't nationalising it, but theyre chocking private companies, in the modern world things are PRIVATISED, like royal mail!

[Stronk Serb]

you would like it if you do well in life, with out a class system one's country turns into a dictatorship, FREEDOM! they're blagging their way though, hate the rich and will destroy our economy!

they ain't nationalising it, but theyre chocking private companies, in the modern world things are PRIVATISED, like royal mail!

China has the world's 2nd economy and the US and the UK are struggling. Two different productions, national and private. The national here wins. And it doesn't have to turn into a dictatorship. Institute the system correctly and it will work very well.

[britishboy]

China has the world's 2nd economy and the US and the UK are struggling. Two different productions, national and private. The national here wins. And it doesn't have to turn into a dictatorship. Institute the system correctly and it will work very well.

the uk is growing... us doesn't even have a government so god knows

China is a good economy, however I couldn't live under communism and I don't like people drowning their kids or child labor

state owned businesses can't compete in the private sector and against, do you not want money? that's the beauty of freedom

[sqishy]

I prefer the idea of a public system over a private one. Private companies want to make money in the end.

[britishboy]

I prefer the idea of a public system over a private one. Private companies want to make money in the end.
thats the beauty of private companies, to make money they must please you, the customer/client!

[Vlerchan]

China is a good economy, however I couldn't live under communism and I don't like people drowning their kids or child labor

state owned businesses can't compete in the private sector and against, do you not want money? that's the beauty of freedom
China is capitalist. It's only Communist in name - Capatlaism, as they say, is not synonymous with Democracy. (http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0110-42.htm) I won't comment on labour because I haven't been following them, I highly doubt they're communist like you're saying, though.

And, privatising isn't always the best idea. The point of privatising is that services will (hopefully) run more efficiently under the hands of profit-seeking, fat cat entrepreneur's which is not always the case - simply looking to the British rail service should tell you that much. Good luck trying to get your mail living outside the inner-city when Royal Mail is gone, and dealing with extra costs if you're one of those who happen to be profitable. Or using FedEx; if they simply strip the companies assets and sell it on again, then you'll probably be left with that as your only option.

[britishboy]

China is capitalist. It's only Communist in name - Capatlaism, as they say, is not synonymous with Democracy. (http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0110-42.htm) I won't comment on labour because I haven't been following them, I highly doubt they're communist like you're saying, though.

And, privatising isn't always the best idea. The point of privatising is that services will (hopefully) run more efficiently under the hands of profit-seeking, fat cat entrepreneur's which is not always the case - simply looking to the British rail service should tell you that much. Good luck trying to get your mail living outside the inner-city when Royal Mail is gone, and dealing with extra costs if you're one of those who happen to be profitable. Or using FedEx; if they simply strip the companies assets and sell it on again, then you'll probably be left with that as your only option.

let me guess, you hate the upper classes?

[Vlerchan]

let me guess, you hate the upper classes?
I really am starting to wonder whether you actually read my posts or not. I'm not a Communist, or a Socialist, I'm a Social Democrat - that means I support Capatalism. Your petty accusations also don't excuse the failings of Thatcherite privatisation and neither do they provide a convincing argument for the privatisation of Royal Mail.

[Sugaree]

the uk is growing... us doesn't even have a government so god knows

Uh, we still have a government. 83% of it is still running. It's not entirely shut down.

state owned businesses can't compete in the private sector and against, do you not want money? that's the beauty of freedom

Your idea of "freedom" and its beauty is very limited.

[Southside]

China has the world's 2nd economy and the US and the UK are struggling. Two different productions, national and private. The national here wins. And it doesn't have to turn into a dictatorship. Institute the system correctly and it will work very well.

China is as capitalist as the US now.

[Stronk Serb]

China is as capitalist as the US now.

Yes but it's state capitalism.

[britishboy]

I really am starting to wonder whether you actually read my posts or not. I'm not a Communist, or a Socialist, I'm a Social Democrat - that means I support Capatalism. Your petty accusations also don't excuse the failings of Thatcherite privatisation and neither do they provide a convincing argument for the privatisation of Royal Mail.

royal mail needs to compete with the many upcoming mail delivery companies

Yes but it's state capitalism.
lol you always moan because the world doesn't know what real communism is, when you think there's such a thing as state capitalism lol

Uh, we still have a government. 83% of it is still running. It's not entirely shut down.

the economy is not being analysed and my respect for America has dropped like a stone in the last few weeks


Your idea of "freedom" and its beauty is very limited.

freedom is beautiful, everyone moaning are hypocritical, if they had wealth, they would keep it but they are jealous and moan

[Sugaree]

the economy is not being analysed and my respect for America has dropped like a stone in the last few weeks

Oh we'll just collapse into utter obscurity! So what, we have a partial shutdown. It's not the end of the country as we know it.

freedom is beautiful, everyone moaning are hypocritical, if they had wealth, they would keep it but they are jealous and moan

As I said, your idea of freedom is incredibly limited and shallow. To you, freedom is wealth. Wealth and freedom are not synonymous terms.

[Stronk Serb]

lol you always moan because the world doesn't know what real communism is, when you think there's such a thing as state capitalism lol

Yes there is. It was the USSR, China is still. It is capitalism, just it's not some private guy who is ripping off people, it's the state.


freedom is beautiful, everyone moaning are hypocritical, if they had wealth, they would keep it but they are jealous and moan


In the XIX century in Imperial Russia there was a movement by the Russian nobility to give some privileges to peasants and the commoners. The nobles wanted to give away parts of their wealth to their subjects. There were Yugoslav communists who came from the wealthier families. Che Guevara was from a wealthy family which was a member of the oligarchy in Bolivia. I think I have more freedom in the middle-class then in the higher class.

[britishboy]

Yes there is. It was the USSR, China is still. It is capitalism, just it's not some private guy who is ripping off people, it's the state.

so socialists?


In the XIX century in Imperial Russia there was a movement by the Russian nobility to give some privileges to peasants and the commoners. The nobles wanted to give away parts of their wealth to their subjects. There were Yugoslav communists who came from the wealthier families. Che Guevara was from a wealthy family which was a member of the oligarchy in Bolivia. I think I have more freedom in the middle-class then in the higher class.

I don't get what your saying? rich people have always helped people, not just the Russians:P I think freedoms are depending on what country your in, however other freedoms can only be unlocked with wealth, the wealthier the better in that case

[Stronk Serb]

so socialists?



I don't get what your saying? rich people have always helped people, not just the Russians:P I think freedoms are depending on what country your in, however other freedoms can only be unlocked with wealth, the wealthier the better in that case

No they were not socialists. State capitalism, just like any sort of capitalism means that there is a hierarchy, there was one in the USSR and there is oje now in China, while in socialism the industry is nationalized, but all citizens are relatively equal compared in what they earn. Not to mention many benefits they earn which are not present in purely capitalist countries. I find it being in the middle-class less stressful. I don't have to worry if the company I own will go bankrupt or if my house will get broken in, or if wealth-related problems will occurr.

[Walter Powers]

We just watched a short documentary in AP Comparative Government on how Tony Blair changed the Labor party from almost Marxist to more as a third way between capitalism and communism. Are their still lots of semi-marxist labor party politicians?

[britishboy]

We just watched a short documentary in AP Comparative Government on how Tony Blair changed the Labor party from almost Marxist to more as a third way between capitalism and communism. Are their still lots of semi-marxist labor party politicians?

top left for me
http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u405/jack120299/ddddd.jpg
http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u405/jack120299/content_reded1.jpg
http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u405/jack120299/wallace-miliband.jpg
whether it has commies in the ranks is debatable, but far to left for me!

[Vlerchan]

royal mail needs to compete with the many upcoming mail delivery companies.
Whilst I will concede that DHL and FedEx are making gains on Royal Mail in the parcel delivery sector - though Royal Mail still control 53% - in the letter delivery sector Royal Mail still control 99% of that market (whilst upcoming mail delivery companies hold a dismal 1%). I also think that you miss the point of state owned companies: it's not to make a profit, it's to both drag down market prices and provide an important service universally - specifically the providing of universal services. Privatising Royal Mail will result in two things; 1) the loss of that universal service - good luck getting your mail delivered to you outside major population centres - and 2) an increase in prices and/or rationalisation of services in order make up for the loss in state financial support.

so socialists?
China are Capitalist. They even have social classes. Mao, I'm sure, is rolling in his grave.

I think freedoms are depending on what country your in, however other freedoms can only be unlocked with wealth, the wealthier the better in that case
I'd agree that your understanding of freedom is excessively shallow, and limited. Sure, I'll concede that with increased wealth comes increased economic freedom - obviously - but it comes at a cost of Social Freedom. Wealth is just one factor that influences ones level of freedom, and, contrary to what you seem to believe, not always for the positive.

[CosmicNoodle]

I must say i believe that Labour will do a damn site better job than the Torys have done so far.
the Torys only want to keep themselves rich, an old boys club in an all boys school.
Look at there run so far, Thatcher destroyed Britain making my chosen career (Engineering degree) a damn site harder. They fucked over EVERYONE from the middle and lower class who want to go to Uni. and now that biggest wanker in the country want to put restrictions on the kind of porn i can watch.

So far they don't seem to have done ANYTHING that has helped anyone but the rich. I refuse to ever vote for them, i plan to vote Labour or Communist

[britishboy]

I must say i believe that Labour will do a damn site better job than the Torys have done so far.
the Torys only want to keep themselves rich, an old boys club in an all boys school.
Look at there run so far, Thatcher destroyed Britain making my chosen career (Engineering degree) a damn site harder. They fucked over EVERYONE from the middle and lower class who want to go to Uni. and now that biggest wanker in the country want to put restrictions on the kind of porn i can watch.

So far they don't seem to have done ANYTHING that has helped anyone but the rich. I refuse to ever vote for them, i plan to vote Labour or Communist

the economy is now growing under the conservatives, labor says they will give everything to everyone, but it destroys the country

[CosmicNoodle]

the economy is now growing under the conservatives, labor says they will give everything to everyone, but it destroys the country

Yes, it may be growing for you. But what about for the rest of us?

[britishboy]

Yes, it may be growing for you. But what about for the rest of us?

I was making reference to the national economy

[Vlerchan]

the economy is now growing under the conservatives, labor says they will give everything to everyone, but it destroys the country
The Irish economy is growing, too; it doesn't make us any less economically fucked.

Labour haven't said anything like that. Labour have actually moved away from Socialism towards the idea of Socialised Democracy. You've been reading a bit too much Daily Mail, I think.

[britishboy]

The Irish economy is growing, too; it doesn't make us any less economically fucked.

Labour haven't said anything like that. Labour have actually moved away from Socialism towards the idea of Socialised Democracy. You've been reading a bit too much Daily Mail, I think.

the UK is completely different to Ireland, and they do, they spend spend spend, destroying our country in the long term

[Vlerchan]

the UK is completely different to Ireland, and they do, they spend spend spend, destroying our country in the long term

No they're not. Both nations are rather similar, actually. They even implemented near-the-same policies in order to get out of the economic slump.

If the spending is focused on projects inside the country then I fail to see how it can destroy an economy. Of course, spending to the point where you're running a large deficit is bad - obviously - but no party aims for that, ever. Actually, I'd say that the government pushing more money into the economy tends to be a good thing for the people, providing it is done responsibly and at a sustainable rate.

[britishboy]

No they're not. Both nations are rather similar, actually. They even implemented near-the-same policies in order to get out of the

yes we're both in the EU, good observation, one difference, they get bailed out, we pay for it



If the spending is focused on projects inside the country then I fail to see how it can destroy an economy. Of course, spending to the point where you're running a large deficit is bad - obviously - but no party aims for that, ever. Actually, I'd say that the government pushing more money into the economy tends to be a good thing for the people, providing it is done responsibly and at a sustainable rate.

economics is complicated but long story short, labor spend spend spend, to do good of course, but long term terrible

[Vlerchan]

yes we're both in the EU, good observation, one difference, they get bailed out, we pay for it.
No, it's not because we're both in the EU. Recessions both hit at the same time; due to the same causes; and we both implemented austerity in order to get out. We've also, historically, had rather close economic and political relations. And, yes Britain did contribute to Ireland's bail-out, lending - not paying - us 7 billion. Why? Because a poor Ireland is bad for the British economy, helping bail Ireland out is as almost as beneficial for Britain as it is Ireland. British exports to Ireland is greater than Brazil, Russia, India and China (BRIC) combined; that's a lot of exports.

economics is complicated but long story short, labor spend spend spend, to do good of course, but long term terrible
I frequently doubt your knowledge of economics, I'm sorry to say. You're wrong at any rate.

[DerBear]

everything the joke of a party says is stupid! they're making promises to get votes, that they can't keep or afford! they're practically communists!

I don't honestly have any issue with the labour party. I find their political ideology suits my own and I'd rather have a more left party than have David Cameron or Nick Clegg runing the country and don't even get me started on UKIP.

[britishboy]

No, it's not because we're both in the EU. Recessions both hit at the same time; due to the same causes; and we both implemented austerity in order to get out. We've also, historically, had rather close economic and political relations. And, yes Britain did contribute to Ireland's bail-out, lending - not paying - us 7 billion. Why? Because a poor Ireland is bad for the British economy, helping bail Ireland out is as almost as beneficial for Britain as it is Ireland. British exports to Ireland is greater than Brazil, Russia, India and China (BRIC) combined; that's a lot of exports.

every club will do that! and we did have the same causes lol what are you going on about?

I honestly do not care about Ireland or like the country, please talk about a country I know or is bailing out other countries, not receiving bailouts
lol and you do? I take economics as a subject, I better be good at it:P and your apparently better?

this all off topic anyway

[Vlerchan]

I'll try go through this slowly.

every club will do that!
I don't understand what you are trying to mean by 'club'. If it's the EU and somehow relates the Britain being forced into bailing out Ireland then I must tell you you're wrong. As Britain is not a member of the Eurozone their part in the Irish bailout programme was voluntary; they realised the economic benefits of helping Ireland out.

and we did have the same causes lol what are you going on about?
Again, I'm not sure what exactly is meant here. I'm assuming sarcasm, in which case I can only answer yes; the causes of the economic slump in both countries are both similar. Irelands was certainly worse due to some poorer policy decisions, but essentially recession hit both countries for the same reasons; poor regulation of the banking sector; sub-prime lending; bad fiscal policy decisions as a result of the economic bubble this created; the sudden retraction of easily available credit as banks began to worry about the not-so-nice long-term effects of reckless lending; the subsequent crash of the housing market; and the fact that it was also happening - and worse - in the worlds largest single economy, America, too. Not of the factors listed where independent of Britain, or Ireland, or many other first world nations who also experienced a sudden economic slump in 2008-2009. Here, the American report probably sums it up more eloquently:

"... the crisis was avoidable and was caused by: Widespread failures in financial regulation, including the Federal Reserve’s failure to stem the tide of toxic mortgages; Dramatic breakdowns in corporate governance including too many financial firms acting recklessly and taking on too much risk; An explosive mix of excessive borrowing and risk by households and Wall Street that put the financial system on a collision course with crisis; Key policy makers ill prepared for the crisis, lacking a full understanding of the financial system they oversaw; and systemic breaches in accountability and ethics at all levels."

To keep it all on topic, I'll add that, it wasn't Labours "spend, spend, spend" mentality that caused the recession, but rather the worlds decidedly capitalist mentality to let everyone spend, spend, spend unrestricted.

I take economics as a subject, I better be good at it:P and your apparently better?
I similarly take economics as a subject. It gives you a rather limited view of it all, I'd say, certainly not in-depth enough for either of to start making claims towards expertise. I plan on taking it at university level next year but until then most of my knowledge on the subject comes from articles on the internet, supplemented by our horribly limited school text book. I've also made no claims that I'm better, I can't without us taking some sort of standardized testing of sorts, but rather you are wrong in this case, and from this, and other topics I've read, frequently make baseless non-factual statements backed up by similarly baseless assumptions.

I honestly do not care about Ireland or like the country, please talk about a country I know or is bailing out other countries, not receiving bailouts.
I'm unsure why you bothered to point out your disliking for Ireland - I'm not nationalistic, at any rate, I don't even support the unification movement at the moment - though I might add that in a debate you can't get off because you "don't care" about a country, it doesn't work like that.

Ireland also is helping in bailing out other countries. As a member of the Eurozone is has to. Does that mean we can continue to talk about them?

[tovaris]

Your statement makes no sense. Labour parties come in two colours black and read.

[Harry Smith]

so socialists?



I don't get what your saying? rich people have always helped people, not just the Russians:P I think freedoms are depending on what country your in, however other freedoms can only be unlocked with wealth, the wealthier the better in that case

hahah mate you spelt Labour wrong in the title- that just sums it up for me. You've got no idea what you're talking about.

The Labour party is so far away from communism- it just shows how out of touch you are. Yes it's a socialist party but that's very different.

The NHS is a socialist dream- it's invented by the Labour party and I've seen you defend it a number of times, the NHS is labour's brainchild. Don't bash socialism and then defend the NHS- it shows that public services can be handled by the government.

The fact that you also claim the economy is growing is stupid, wages are going down whilist prices are going up. People are being forced into part time jobs by a government which is out of touch.

You always claim to study economics but I haven't seen a single post which shows any basic understanding of economics let alone political theory. It's getting kinda stupid now mate

[Trenton_]

so long as the rich have enough money and the poor are okay, it doesn't matter.

[Soulless]

People are stupid on both ends of the political scale.

They are so full of hatred for the other side that they forget that running a country for the long term is more important than getting voted back in next election.

And it's Labour*

[Harry Smith]

they're so left its unreal, they will give everyone everything, destroy the upper class and reverse our current economic growth

Wait, I actually want to engage your brain for once.

What Labour policy destroys the upper class?

It's also extremely vague to say give everyone everthing- there is no one policy which could do this. Have you actually looked at the labour policies or is it just mindless tory wank?

Economic growth? Where are you living? We've got people being pushed into menial part time jobs so the tories can boast about low unemployment.

[britishboy]

Wait, I actually want to engage your brain for once.

it's a debate harry, neither of us have ambitions to lead this country so relax, dont take it personally



Economic growth? Where are you living? We've got people being pushed into menial part time jobs so the tories can boast about low unemployment.
somewhere beautiful thats been conservative for over 100 years;)

when the econmy grows the whole country does not suddenly get a job of course not thay would be a silly suggestion! after terrible figures it's nice to finnaly see progress! in my eyes Tories have secured my loyalty

[Harry Smith]

it's a debate harry, neither of us have ambitions to lead this country so relax, dont take it personally



somewhere beautiful thats been conservative for over 100 years;)

when the econmy grows the whole country does not suddenly get a job of course not thay would be a silly suggestion! after terrible figures it's nice to finnaly see progress! in my eyes Tories have secured my loyalty

I do very much.

aha please tell me about the labour parties communist plot again? Your completely ignoring your rather weak claim that the labour party is a marxist party. Please show me the policy which is marxist?

See progress? People have less money than they had 3 years ago. Wages are falling whilst prices are rising and David Cameron has nothing to help. He stands up for the big companies making billions and he leaves the british people at the bottom. Our economy is barely growing and to make it worse the british people are suffering.

Their killing the NHS, they're foreign policy is a joke and there divided on Europe. I love how you make a thread to attack labour but all it shows is how useless the tories are

[DerBear]

BritishBoy once again you do a spectacular job of failing to grasp and answer the most simplistic questions. Bravo, well done, take a bow.

Labour doesn't have a communist plot and I'd honestly, like harry said, want to hear your take on this.

The progress made by the conservative party is quite frankly shocking. In 2009 under currently Labour plans the predicted growth was actually higher than today's predictions. Under a Labour government, back in 2009 the current growth back then estimated by 2015 was said to have stabilized the economy completely and have growth on healthy rise.

Instead when the conservative government took over we had a charming double dip recession, employment went up briefly, more youths out of work and a rise in VAT (Which the [-]dickhead[/-] David Cameron said he wasn't intending to do in his political manifesto)

Overall David Cameron couldn't organise a piss up in brewery, nevermind lead a country.

[Stronk Serb]

I am glad to hear that the UK has a political party which actually does it's job when it get's voted in. Everyone else from the lower classes got ruined by PMs who were not from Labour. Thatcher and now Cameron...