Superpower Government Shutdown in T Minus Three Hours

[Walter Powers]

At midnight tonight EST all nondescretionary funding for the US federal government expires if Speaker Boehner and President Obama don't make a deal. The Republicans have offered to extend funding for all programs except ObamaCare, which will be delayed for a year under their plan. President Obama and Democratic Senate majority leader Harry Reid have vowed to shutdown the government before defunding the health care law. This healthcare law is Obama's signature peace of legislation (which, by the way, the majority of Americans disapprove of).

What do you make of all this? What do you think will happen? If there is a government shutdown, does everybody in congress share the blame or would you blame a certain group (I.E. the GOP, Democrats, Tea Partiers, etc)?

Here's a fun fact about a government shutdown: People still get their entitlement checks and congress still gets paid, however our military troops who are risking their lives to defend our interests don't.

[LouBerry]

This is all bullshit. Republican/Democrat, all of it. It's bullshit.

We are ONE nation. A singular unit. We are going to run ourselves into the ground if we keep this up. If we are not willing to compromise, and see each others side of things, have some compassion for one another, none of this matters. Our government is never going to work if everyone is just looking out for themselves.

If the majority of American people don't want Obama care, it's up to the damn Congress to fix it, because that's our representation. But, they won't. Because in the end, they care about their money, not their people. Or, they care about only their party, and you know what? That doesn't work either.

I don't know, man, it's a big mess.

[ksdnfkfr]

Weren't they going on and on about a fiscal cliff and the government shutting down last year? Isn't stuff like that just "media hype"?

[LouBerry]

Isn't stuff like that just "media hype"?

Unfortunately, no. Yes this shit happens all the time, but not for Media hype, literally neither side will listen to the other. It's crazy.

[Cygnus]

Just as I predicted, the US government is too busy with internal conflict to realize that they are heading for doom. It was a good decision to cut the military funds though, since money needs to head elsewhere.

[Southside]

I don't even support Obamacare, I think its a horrible law but the house Republicans are to blame for this fuck up.

They hold the whole country hostage just because of this Obamacare garbage, so much for putting America's interest first.

[Walter Powers]

This just in: Senate Kills Republican Counteroffer, Won't Budge on ObamaCare.

http://www.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=22995&external=2347374.proteus.fma

[thatcountrykid]

The only thing i really worry about is people over reacting. I think true america will always live on.

[Walter Powers]

I don't even support Obamacare, I think its a horrible law but the house Republicans are to blame for this fuck up.

They hold the whole country hostage just because of this Obamacare garbage, so much for putting America's interest first.

Why do you just blame the Republicans, then? If Obama and the Democrats in the Senate would simply get rid of this law we both agree is bad, we wouldn't be faced with a government shutdown.

The only thing i really worry about is people over reacting. I think true america will always live on.

The idea of America will always live on, we'll eventually recover, we always have, it's just a question of how long that takes.

It is overreacting to say that this particular instance is going to decide our future. However, it's not overreacting to say the national debt will eventually crush us economically.

[thatcountrykid]

Why do you just blame the Republicans, then? If Obama and the Democrats in the Senate would simply get rid of this law we both agree is bad, we wouldn't be faced with a government shutdown.



The idea of America will always live on, we'll eventually recover, we always have, it's just a question of how long that takes.

It is overreacting to say that this particular instance is going to decide our future. However, it's not overreacting to say the national debt will eventually crush us economically.

Well i dont think it will decide our whole future but i think it might make a step towards a certain direction. I worry about these phsyco "militias" who plan on having "revolutions" and all that crap.

[CharlieHorse]

well it happened, now what?

[Korashk]

Here's a fun fact about a government shutdown: People still get their entitlement checks and congress still gets paid, however our military troops who are risking their lives to defend our interests don't.
Don't worry your little head. They passed some sort of thing that makes it so that your beloved state sponsored murderers and their support staff get paid.

Well i dont think it will decide our whole future but i think it might make a step towards a certain direction. I worry about these phsyco "militias" who plan on having "revolutions" and all that crap.
I'm not too worried. This isn't even the first time this has happened since I've been alive.

[britishboy]

another embarrassing day for America

[Southside]

Why do you just blame the Republicans, then? If Obama and the Democrats in the Senate would simply get rid of this law we both agree is bad, we wouldn't be faced with a government shutdown.



The idea of America will always live on, we'll eventually recover, we always have, it's just a question of how long that takes.

It is overreacting to say that this particular instance is going to decide our future. However, it's not overreacting to say the national debt will eventually crush us economically.

Still, do you think it was right for the gov. to shutdown just because those brats in Congress couldn't get their way? The Republicans should have back down so we could have averted this..

I wish that Congress and the President didn't get paid during this shutdown..

[thatcountrykid]

Don't worry your little head. They passed some sort of thing that makes it so that your beloved state sponsored murderers and their support staff get paid.


I'm not too worried. This isn't even the first time this has happened since I've been alive.

State sponsored murderers? What are you talkin about.

Its happen before too but if i remember right this is the first time it has gone this far.

[Tristin.]

may i just ask what exactly is so wrong with Obamacare that the majority of americans hate it? Britain has had a much more intricate universal healthcare system for years and is doing perfectly fine with it; in fact is anyone threatens to cut its spending they usually get public backlash.

[Walter Powers]

If you guys haven't heard yet, Boehner and Obama didn't make a deal. The government is now in shutdown mode.

Oh, and thankfully, a last minute bill was passed that continues to pay the military.

[Emerald Dream]

The fact that it is 2013 and the United States has a two-party political system with a "US vs. THEM, no matter what the cost" mentality is just appalling. Seriously, no one (politicians or the asshats that follow them) can think outside of party lines.

It's not just the Republicans. It's not just the Democrats. It's both of them. I am pretty sick of hearing about political parties, "sides," and party "platforms" where you have to be a freaking SHEEP and believe everything your "party" stands for blindly.

Give me a break. The rights and wellbeing of this country has to suffer because of the continued lack of compromise....because adults insist on perpetuating the "I have to disagree just because someone is a Democrat/Republican" bullshit that is just as baby-ish as two toddlers fighting over a toy.

[britishboy]

it's sad they couldn't make an agreement, the US is one of the best countries in the world, they must sort this out!

[PinkFloyd]

it's sad they couldn't make an agreement, the US is one of the best countries in the world, they must sort this out!

It's nice of you to say that, but I need to disagree. Our government is awful..

[sqishy]

Time to see what happens when a large country goes into automatic mode. Things will be interesting...

[TheBigUnit]

At least the markets are still doing well

[Stronk Serb]

And the Congress has proven us that they are as mature as 2 kids fighting over a piece of candy.

[TheBigUnit]

And the Congress has proven us that they are as mature as 2 kids fighting over a piece of candy.

quite true,

[Professional Russian]

Wait does this mean no more federal taxes out of my pay check?

[Twilly F. Sniper]

The fact that it is 2013 and the United States has a two-party political system with a "US vs. THEM, no matter what the cost" mentality is just appalling. Seriously, no one (politicians or the asshats that follow them) can think outside of party lines.

It's not just the Republicans. It's not just the Democrats. It's both of them. I am pretty sick of hearing about political parties, "sides," and party "platforms" where you have to be a freaking SHEEP and believe everything your "party" stands for blindly.

Give me a break. The rights and wellbeing of this country has to suffer because of the continued lack of compromise....because adults insist on perpetuating the "I have to disagree just because someone is a Democrat/Republican" bullshit that is just as baby-ish as two toddlers fighting over a toy.

Pretty much correct.

The United States has been heading in the wrong direction for the last 10-15 years.

[sqishy]

The fact that it is 2013 and the United States has a two-party political system with a "US vs. THEM, no matter what the cost" mentality is just appalling. Seriously, no one (politicians or the asshats that follow them) can think outside of party lines.

It's not just the Republicans. It's not just the Democrats. It's both of them. I am pretty sick of hearing about political parties, "sides," and party "platforms" where you have to be a freaking SHEEP and believe everything your "party" stands for blindly.

Give me a break. The rights and wellbeing of this country has to suffer because of the continued lack of compromise....because adults insist on perpetuating the "I have to disagree just because someone is a Democrat/Republican" bullshit that is just as baby-ish as two toddlers fighting over a toy.

Indeed. I always like it when I see someone with the same general opinions on something.

[HUSTLEMAN]

The Republicans have just lost 2014.

[Sugaree]

lol nothing happened

Seriously, what were you all thinking would happen? That the ground beneath your feet would just collapse? The government shuts down SOME services, so fucking what. It's what we need right now.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

The Republicans have just lost 2014.

I think it's been lost for them, if people had common sense.

[Outside The Box]

How about a citizen shut down? People stop paying taxes until these crooks realize they're supposed to represent the people, not the corporations.

[laurakoller0815]

Im so sorry for all the involved ppl who are send to vacation withouth having there wages/salary for paying debts or live expenses..... only cause those dickheads arent able to settle a budget

[Harry Smith]

it's sad they couldn't make an agreement, the US is one of the best countries in the world, they must sort this out!

Best countries in the world? That's pretty ironic considering they're having to shut down their public services just because they're elected officials can't do there job.

This just highlights the problem with the whole set up of the US situation- it was great 200 years ago but now it just means that the executive has low levels of power.

[britishboy]

Best countries in the world? That's pretty ironic considering they're having to shut down their public services just because they're elected officials can't do there job.

This just highlights the problem with the whole set up of the US situation- it was great 200 years ago but now it just means that the executive has low levels of power.

ok before they closed they was one of the best, you agree? anyway thats just opinions my point was they like being one of the best, and the country is widely admired so this is a huge embarrassment for them

[Harry Smith]

ok before they closed they was one of the best, you agree? anyway thats just opinions my point was they like being one of the best, and the country is widely admired so this is a huge embarrassment for them

No they weren't, they've committed mass war crimes, broken nearly every single article of the Geneva convention, used the UN to block any Israeli related issue and kept innocent Muslims in jail without charge. That's just a couple to go by off the top of head. Also I believe it was 8 democratic governments they've removed so don't sprout this bollocks about America being great, we don't even admire America anymore

[Sugaree]

ok before they closed they was one of the best, you agree? anyway thats just opinions my point was they like being one of the best, and the country is widely admired so this is a huge embarrassment for them

>America
>great
>embarrassed by a half-witted government elected by half-witted voters who didn't know a thing going into the voting booth


I'm sorry, but you're trying to give a handjob to a female here, buddy. It's not gonna turn out in your favor. We've come a long way from being the most important country in the world. A nice country to live in at times, but we have our faults just like many others. We're not as great as you put us out to be.

[Castle of Glass]

i will let the queen do the speaking:

http://i.imgur.com/S82bqSw.jpg

[britishboy]

i will let the queen do the speaking:

image (http://i.imgur.com/S82bqSw.jpg)

haha:D I think she would be upset in all seriousness, the US is her most powerful allie

[Castle of Glass]

haha:D I think she would be upset in all seriousness, the US is her most powerful allie

any economically smart would be upset. If the US doesn't get this resolved by the 17th of THIS MONTH, their international credit goes to 0. it resets. that would make the entire world economy collapse.

[britishboy]

any economically smart would be upset. If the US doesn't get this resolved by the 17th of THIS MONTH, their international credit goes to 0. it resets. that would make the entire world economy collapse.

that's a bit of an over reaction but yes it will have impacts like the wall street crash did, to be honest it will only affect those with money in the US

[CharlieHorse]

The fact that it is 2013 and the United States has a two-party political system with a "US vs. THEM, no matter what the cost" mentality is just appalling. Seriously, no one (politicians or the asshats that follow them) can think outside of party lines.

It's not just the Republicans. It's not just the Democrats. It's both of them. I am pretty sick of hearing about political parties, "sides," and party "platforms" where you have to be a freaking SHEEP and believe everything your "party" stands for blindly.

Give me a break. The rights and wellbeing of this country has to suffer because of the continued lack of compromise....because adults insist on perpetuating the "I have to disagree just because someone is a Democrat/Republican" bullshit that is just as baby-ish as two toddlers fighting over a toy.


Dam right! :D
Couldn't have said it better myself.

[thatcountrykid]

No they weren't, they've committed mass war crimes, broken nearly every single article of the Geneva convention, used the UN to block any Israeli related issue and kept innocent Muslims in jail without charge. That's just a couple to go by off the top of head. Also I believe it was 8 democratic governments they've removed so don't sprout this bollocks about America being great, we don't even admire America anymore

What war crimes!

[Stronk Serb]

What war crimes!

Taking down democratic governments, killing civilians en masse, imprisoning Muslims without any evidence to support the accusations to name a few.

[thatcountrykid]

Taking down democratic governments, killing civilians en masse, imprisoning Muslims without any evidence to support the accusations to name a few.

Taking down democratic governments? Name a fee and how its a crime please.

Unfortunatly civilians are a casulty of war. What al queda kill thousands of civillians on 9/11?

What about iran or alqueda who do the same things. We inprison them for necesarry info.

[Stronk Serb]

Taking down democratic governments? Name a fee and how its a crime please.

Unfortunatly civilians are a casulty of war. What al queda kill thousands of civillians on 9/11?

What about iran or alqueda who do the same things. We inprison them for necesarry info.

You took down a democratically elected government of Iran, installed the tyrannical shah. Current Iran is the result of decades of oppression under his boots. Iran and Al-Qaeda at least have good links to why they hold their prisoners. Many prisoners in Guantanamo are held without evidence and were hard-working people who wanted to earn a loving. And if Iran and Al-Qaeda do those same things, why does the "Land of the Free" do it to it's citizens if it's against their personal liberties?

You targeted civilian targets. During the interventions you did in the Balkans you targeted civilian convoys and bridges while civilians were crossing. Not to mention you used illegal cluster bombs. In Iraq more then 100,000 civilians died. You allow Israel to commit genocide against the Palestinian population. You mistreat POWs which is another breaking of the Geneva convention.

[Vlerchan]

Taking down democratic governments? Name a fee and how its a crime please.
I'm unsure what you're trying to say here. Though, let me tell you, taking down democratically elected governments is generally considered a bad thing by the international community. I won't get into how poorly I personally think of it.

Unfortunatly civilians are a casulty of war. What al queda kill thousands of civillians on 9/11?
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. I once spoke with someone who tried to justify 9/11 by pointing out all the heinous acts that America had committed abroad. You're doing the reverse here - justifying the deaths of civilians who had nothing to do with the bombings because of the actions of a (relatively) small a group of extremists. I find both arguments to be equally distasteful.

What about iran or alqueda who do the same things. We inprison them for necesarry info.
You think everyone is Guantanamo Bay is Al Qaeda or a member of some other Islamist militant group? Really? Though, lets pretend they are: does that seriously justify the existence of a state-run concentration camp; a place were torture is frequently practiced?

I won't comment on your attempt to scaremonger Iranians.

What war crimes!
Try this entire article. It's not particularly indepth but it should give you the basic idea. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes)

I would like to specifically point out the use of torture - oh, sorry, I meant 'advanced interrogation' - however as something that deserves focusing on.

that's a bit of an over reaction but yes it will have impacts like the wall street crash did, to be honest it will only affect those with money in the US.
Considering the size of the US import and export markets I think it's safe to say it's roughly the entire world who will be affected. Though, I'm sure it won't get that far.

[thatcountrykid]

You took down a democratically elected government of Iran, installed the tyrannical shah. Current Iran is the result of decades of oppression under his boots. Iran and Al-Qaeda at least have good links to why they hold their prisoners. Many prisoners in Guantanamo are held without evidence and were hard-working people who wanted to earn a loving. And if Iran and Al-Qaeda do those same things, why does the "Land of the Free" do it to it's citizens if it's against their personal liberties?

You targeted civilian targets. During the interventions you did in the Balkans you targeted civilian convoys and bridges while civilians were crossing. Not to mention you used illegal cluster bombs. In Iraq more then 100,000 civilians died. You allow Israel to commit genocide against the Palestinian population. You mistreat POWs which is another breaking of the Geneva convention.

AND THEY NEVER DID! Hm let me think 9/11, the attacks on british subways. Thats only two. And how about the mistreatment of allied soldiers in afaganistan and iraq? Tell me about those. Are those okay?

I'm unsure what you're trying to say here. Though, let me tell you, taking down democratically elected governments is generally considered a bad thing by the international community. I won't get into how poorly I personally think of it.


An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. I once spoke with someone who tried to justify 9/11 by pointing out all the heinous acts that America had committed abroad. You're doing the reverse here - justifying the deaths of civilians who had nothing to do with the bombings because of the actions of a (relatively) small a group of extremists. I find both arguments to be equally distasteful.


You think everyone is Guantanamo Bay is Al Qaeda or a member of some other Islamist militant group? Really? Though, lets pretend they are: does that seriously justify the existence of a state-run concentration camp; a place were torture is frequently practiced?

I won't comment on your attempt to scaremonger Iranians.

What war crimes!
Try this entire article. It's not particularly indepth but it should give you the basic idea. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes)

I would like to specifically point out the use of torture - oh, sorry, I meant 'advanced interrogation' - however as something that deserves focusing on.


Considering the size of the US import and export markets I think it's safe to say it's roughly the entire world who will be affected. Though, I'm sure it won't get that far.[/QUOTE]

Ok sonits ok for them to do it then? What are we supposed to do? Ask them to say sorry? NO!

I wasnt targeting islamic groups and used them as examples. Explain to me how them torturing and killing people for bein american is justified. Or how people are arrested and killed for being christian in their countries huh?

[Vlerchan]

Ok so its ok for them to do it then?
Of course terrorism is not okay. I actually made it pretty clear in my last post that I'm against the use of violence in general.

What are we supposed to do? Ask them to say sorry? NO!
Whilst I don't believe that asking for an apology would work (at either quelling the violence or appeasing the America public) opening up communications isn't necessarily a bad idea. Terrorist groups generally aren't set up for no reason; many of them represent legitimate interests that usually need to be addressed before the violence can end. This whole 'we don't negotiate with terrorists' policy only serves to create more animosity between both parties, whilst discussions won't exactly be the 'bloody revenge' Americans seem to want it would certainly help in putting an end to the needless death and destruction. Again: an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind (and, in this case, American actions only tend to create more terrorism).

Of course if America was in anyway interested in actually killing terrorism they would've attacked Saudi Arabia - who's government actively finance radical Islamic and jihadists groups who support the use of violence - by now.

I wasnt targeting islamic groups and used them as examples. Explain to me how them torturing and killing people for bein american is justified. Or how people are arrested and killed for being christian in their countries huh?
Neither parties actions are justified. That's the entire point.

(If you want to respond to this post VM me. I feel that our conversation is only serving to derail the thread. Thanks.)

[Get Outta Compton]

The Republicans are a joke. They obviously only want to kill the ACA because they don't want the 1% and themselves having to pay to save their countrymen's lives, as they'd prefer keeping their corrupt riches to savour them in the company of other rednecks at their conservative retreats instead of helping those in need.

[Walter Powers]

Don't worry your little head. They passed some sort of thing that makes it so that your beloved state sponsored murderers and their support staff get paid.


I'm not too worried. This isn't even the first time this has happened since I've been alive.

"State sponsored murderers"! How dare you demean the heroes who protect our freedom to that! You may not agree with everything they do, but they don't make the decisions anyways; just simply execute them, and do a damn good job at it.

How about you move somewhere without "state sponsored murderers?"

Still, do you think it was right for the gov. to shutdown just because those brats in Congress couldn't get their way? The Republicans should have back down so we could have averted this..

I wish that Congress and the President didn't get paid during this shutdown..

Me too.

The Democrats could have backed down too and made some ObamaCare concessions. It's ALL of the politicians fault, not just the GOP or the Democrats.

may i just ask what exactly is so wrong with Obamacare that the majority of americans hate it? Britain has had a much more intricate universal healthcare system for years and is doing perfectly fine with it; in fact is anyone threatens to cut its spending they usually get public backlash.

That, my friend, is exactly why the GOP has to do everything in it's power NOW to stop ObamaCare. It's virtually impossible to take away any entitlement after it's taken affect.

I have a thread about ObamaCare and why I don't like it, if you want to see my reasons:

http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=189708

The fact that it is 2013 and the United States has a two-party political system with a "US vs. THEM, no matter what the cost" mentality is just appalling. Seriously, no one (politicians or the asshats that follow them) can think outside of party lines.

It's not just the Republicans. It's not just the Democrats. It's both of them. I am pretty sick of hearing about political parties, "sides," and party "platforms" where you have to be a freaking SHEEP and believe everything your "party" stands for blindly.

Give me a break. The rights and wellbeing of this country has to suffer because of the continued lack of compromise....because adults insist on perpetuating the "I have to disagree just because someone is a Democrat/Republican" bullshit that is just as baby-ish as two toddlers fighting over a toy.


Does your country not have political parties or something?

My AP Comparative Government class was talking about this the other day, and determined a two party system was best because we don't have to deal with that coalition nonsense.

It's nice of you to say that, but I need to disagree. Our government is awful..

In relative terms, our government is doing the best of any nation.

Wait does this mean no more federal taxes out of my pay check?

Nope, IRS is still open. If they had to close that I'm sure the Democrats would be willing to do almost anything to end this; without the IRS, they lose some of their election manipulation power.

How about a citizen shut down? People stop paying taxes until these crooks realize they're supposed to represent the people, not the corporations.
Sounds good.
Im so sorry for all the involved ppl who are send to vacation withouth having there wages/salary for paying debts or live expenses..... only cause those dickheads arent able to settle a budget

All the furloughed people will be paid for their time off eventually. That always happens after government shutdowns. In the end, it's a win for them because they get time off and get paid.

Best countries in the world? That's pretty ironic considering they're having to shut down their public services just because they're elected officials can't do there job.

This just highlights the problem with the whole set up of the US situation- it was great 200 years ago but now it just means that the executive has low levels of power.

200? Where's you get that number?

We were great in 1989. Then President Reagan left office and things started going downhill from there.
any economically smart would be upset. If the US doesn't get this resolved by the 17th of THIS MONTH, their international credit goes to 0. it resets. that would make the entire world economy collapse.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. And even if we do raise the debt ceiling, our credit score will still go down, because, I mean, it allows us to go into more debt!

As I've said before, the world's in trouble as soon as major creditors start pulling out there stake in us because of the debt. That would be an economic collapse.

The Republicans are a joke. They obviously only want to kill the ACA because they don't want the 1% and themselves having to pay to save their countrymen's lives, as they'd prefer keeping their corrupt riches to savour them in the company of other rednecks at their conservative retreats instead of helping those in need.

Is that sarcasm? You know everything about the ACA and know that the reason we must not like it is because it supposedly hurts the 1%"?

Have you read the Affordable Care Act? (AKA ObamaCare)

No, of course you haven't. And neither did any of the people in congress or the President when they signed it. And that's because it's thousands of pages long. That alone should be grounds to repeal it.

Yes, repealing ObamaCare will help the most successful in society, but it will also help the working class americans who are seeing their premiums double and triple because of this train wreck. Repealing ObamaCare is best for almost everyone. Plus, the vast majority of Americans, including uninsured Americans want it gone, so we're working for everyone if we can weaken it.

[Get Outta Compton]

Is that sarcasm? You know everything about the ACA and know that the reason we must not like it is because it supposedly hurts the 1%"?

Have you read the Affordable Care Act? (AKA ObamaCare)

No, of course you haven't. And neither did any of the people in congress or the President when they signed it. And that's because it's thousands of pages long. That alone should be grounds to repeal it.

Yes, repealing ObamaCare will help the most successful in society, but it will also help the working class americans who are seeing their premiums double and triple because of this train wreck. Repealing ObamaCare is best for almost everyone. Plus, the vast majority of Americans, including uninsured Americans want it gone, so we're working for everyone if we can weaken it.

Have YOU read it? If it's thousands of pages long and you suppose the President and Congress didn't read it at all, I strongly doubt that a kid on VT did a better job at going through the documents than them.

Anyway, you said it: "Repealing ObamaCare will help the most successful in society". There it is. That's all there is to it. As pertaining to the working class Americans, I'm sure they won't mind their taxes going up a bit when they get injured or sick and don't have to spend the rest of their lives paying back their debts to the fat private medical and pharmaceutical companies who suck them out of their money. Thus, repealing ObamaCare is, as opposed to what you said, best for almost everyone, except, of course, the small minority of the corrupt and wealthy which you seem to so fiercely defend.

The vast majority of Americans that are against ObamaCare are only against it because of the fact that the president's name is on it, as they've been brainwashed by the Republicans into thinking that Obama is communist, because every true American knows that a social program must be communism, right? A lot of right-wing people, especially in the South, don't even realize that OC and ACA are the same thing!

I would like to see your sources for claiming that most Americans want to see the law repealed. Here are some of my sources to prove that most of the people who vote against ObamaCare don't even know what it is. Furthermore, some even think they'll have to pay a fine if they don't get insured, which is erroneous:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/30/new-poll-only-one-third-of-americans-support-repealing-defunding-or-delaying-obamacare/

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/09/30/poll-nj-residents-have-more-favorable-opinion-of-affordable-care-act-but-are-less-informed/

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/01/healthcare-obamacare-affordable-care-act

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-10-02/americans-like-obamacare-less-than-the-affordable-care-act

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/09/29/obamacare-affordable-care-act-obama-column/2892183/

Additionally, votes are starkly divided by age: the vast majority of those who oppose the Act are above the age of 40 and vice-versa. Goes to show how all of those inbred redneck baby-boomers have spent their lives into believing the classic speech of "traditional American values" vomited by the joke that is the Republican Party, even going to lengths to believe that the war in Iraq was actually a good thing and only started for fighting terrorism, which obviously was only to get oil by blaming a country for the bombing of two towers actually caused by a totally independent terrorist group. You really think Bush didn't saw 9/11 coming? I hope you're the one who's sarcastic.

In any case, I don't expect you to understand my point of view, as you'll probably deny everything I just said, including the articles I pointed out, so I'll just say I enjoyed this debate as I take my leave and let you enjoy your beautiful country that is America, where people are free to own guns, kill each other, where gays can't marry, but first cousins can. Cheers! :D

[Stronk Serb]

AND THEY NEVER DID! Hm let me think 9/11, the attacks on british subways. Thats only two. And how about the mistreatment of allied soldiers in afaganistan and iraq? Tell me about those. Are those okay?


Try this entire article. It's not particularly indepth but it should give you the basic idea. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes)

I would like to specifically point out the use of torture - oh, sorry, I meant 'advanced interrogation' - however as something that deserves focusing on.


Considering the size of the US import and export markets I think it's safe to say it's roughly the entire world who will be affected. Though, I'm sure it won't get that far.

Ok sonits ok for them to do it then? What are we supposed to do? Ask them to say sorry? NO!

I wasnt targeting islamic groups and used them as examples. Explain to me how them torturing and killing people for bein american is justified. Or how people are arrested and killed for being christian in their countries huh?[/QUOTE]

No they are not. Iran is the least of your problem. Just because some peasants torture people means that your troops must get way below their level? Terrorist tortures are like a hobby compared to an industrialized machine of your prisons where you keep and torture prisoners without trials, charges and evidence.

"State sponsored murderers"! How dare you demean the heroes who protect our freedom to that! You may not agree with everything they do, but they don't make the decisions anyways; just simply execute them, and do a damn good job at it.

How about you move somewhere without "state sponsored murderers?"



Me too.

The Democrats could have backed down too and made some ObamaCare concessions. It's ALL of the politicians fault, not just the GOP or the Democrats.



That, my friend, is exactly why the GOP has to do everything in it's power NOW to stop ObamaCare. It's virtually impossible to take away any entitlement after it's taken affect.

I have a thread about ObamaCare and why I don't like it, if you want to see my reasons:

http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=189708




Does your country not have political parties or something?

My AP Comparative Government class was talking about this the other day, and determined a two party system was best because we don't have to deal with that coalition nonsense.



In relative terms, our government is doing the best of any nation.



Nope, IRS is still open. If they had to close that I'm sure the Democrats would be willing to do almost anything to end this; without the IRS, they lose some of their election manipulation power.


Sounds good.


All the furloughed people will be paid for their time off eventually. That always happens after government shutdowns. In the end, it's a win for them because they get time off and get paid.



200? Where's you get that number?

We were great in 1989. Then President Reagan left office and things started going downhill from there.


That's a bit of an exaggeration. And even if we do raise the debt ceiling, our credit score will still go down, because, I mean, it allows us to go into more debt!

As I've said before, the world's in trouble as soon as major creditors start pulling out there stake in us because of the debt. That would be an economic collapse.



Is that sarcasm? You know everything about the ACA and know that the reason we must not like it is because it supposedly hurts the 1%"?

Have you read the Affordable Care Act? (AKA ObamaCare)

No, of course you haven't. And neither did any of the people in congress or the President when they signed it. And that's because it's thousands of pages long. That alone should be grounds to repeal it.

Yes, repealing ObamaCare will help the most successful in society, but it will also help the working class americans who are seeing their premiums double and triple because of this train wreck. Repealing ObamaCare is best for almost everyone. Plus, the vast majority of Americans, including uninsured Americans want it gone, so we're working for everyone if we can weaken it.


Those murderers kill citizens, torture innocents and invade countries and don't do jack shit in protecting your freedom, actually they are invading it. All of the terrorist attacks and the crisis you owe to all of your dear politicians. Be it Republicunt or Democrap.