Taoism to Christianity

[LuciferSam]

Here's an idea I had. I'm not that familiar with history, but I feel like this could be a possibility. Also, I know that this might piss off some Christian members, and I can respect that. Just don't be blasting me with negative comments about heresy and blasphemy and all that.

It is said that Lao-tse, the founder of Taoism who is said to have lived some time during the 4th Century BC, after becoming fed up with the excessively regimented culture of the ruling Confucians, decided to leave his hometown and live a freer life. It is never explicitly said where he was going, but it is clear that his philosophy soon spread through China, gathering many followers.

A few hundred years later in about 114 BC, the Silk Road was developed as a trade route from China and India through a great deal of the Middle East, including the area around Israel. It is known that along with physical items, the Silk Road brought together various types of people, and would result in the exchange of philosophies and ideas.

There are uncanny similarities between Taoism and Christianity, including pacifism, belief in a simple life, doing good for others, inward as well as outward maintenance of goodness, and not conforming to the excesses of society. (There are more, but I can't remember them right now.) The word tao means "way", and this is the guiding principle of Taoism, which indeed is referred to as "The Way". Christianity was also spoken of as "The Way" in it's early days. Yet interestingly, Taoism was a developed and widespread philosophy in the East at least 400 years before Christianity began to spread in the 1st Century AD.

In my mind, it is possible that Christianity is the result of a merge between Eastern philosophy and Judaism.

Thoughts?

[Cygnus]

All religions (or most) have some basic principles that are similar, so it might be a wild claim to say that just because the basic principles are related that these two religions were interconnected somehow, although it is entirely possible.

[Stronk Serb]

It is possible. It doesn't surprise me if it was exactly like that.

[Jess]

Yes it's definitely possible. Christianity basically took a lot of things from older religions...like the back from the dead thing, isn't that similar to Osiris coming back to life or whatnot..

[Tarannosaurus]

Definitely possible. I believe Taoism is polytheistic. So maybe that's how the idea of the trinity came about, Judaism's one god and Taoism's multiple deities.

[LuciferSam]

Definitely possible. I believe Taoism is polytheistic. So maybe that's how the idea of the trinity came about, Judaism's one god and Taoism's multiple deities.

Your terminology is off in that true Taoism is non-theistic. I don't recall the exact passage, but I believe that somewhere in the Tao Te Ching Lao-tse concludes a verse by saying "This is why I have no need for gods or spirits." However, there are polytheistic religious groups that use Taoism as their main philosophy.

Your theory however is very close. Taoists bear a high reverence for the "Three Pure Ones", Yuqing, Shangqing, and Taiqing. They are the major forces of the universe, not gods, although they are often illustrated as three men for the sake of symbolism and art. Yuqing is the creator (Father), Shangqing is chi and life energy (Holy Spirit), and Taiqing is the keeper of spirits. Intriguingly, Taiqing is said to be of the Earth and is sometimes referred to as "the Lord of Man". Some Taoist circles also believe that he was incarnated as Lao-tse.

With this arrangement, the parallels to the Trinity are undeniable, with Yuqing as the more personal Father, Shangqing as the incorporeal Holy Spirit, and Taiqing as the Son.

[Tarannosaurus]

Your terminology is off in that true Taoism is non-theistic. I don't recall the exact passage, but I believe that somewhere in the Tao Te Ching Lao-tse concludes a verse by saying "This is why I have no need for gods or spirits." However, there are polytheistic religious groups that use Taoism as their main philosophy.

Your theory however is very close. Taoists bear a high reverence for the "Three Pure Ones", Yuqing, Shangqing, and Taiqing. They are the major forces of the universe, not gods, although they are often illustrated as three men for the sake of symbolism and art. Yuqing is the creator (Father), Shangqing is chi and life energy (Holy Spirit), and Taiqing is the keeper of spirits. Intriguingly, Taiqing is said to be of the Earth and is sometimes referred to as "the Lord of Man". Some Taoist circles also believe that he was incarnated as Lao-tse.

With this arrangement, the parallels to the Trinity are undeniable, with Yuqing as the more personal Father, Shangqing as the incorporeal Holy Spirit, and Taiqing as the Son.

Sorry if you're a Taoist and I offended you, I just read an article saying it was polytheistic. As a Buddhist I get the idea of universal forces, would I be right in thinking the Taoist idea of universal forces is similar to the Buddhist idea? And wow "The Three Pure Ones"? In that case I'd say Christianity did borrow from Taoism.

[LuciferSam]

Sorry if you're a Taoist and I offended you, I just read an article saying it was polytheistic. As a Buddhist I get the idea of universal forces, would I be right in thinking the Taoist idea of universal forces is similar to the Buddhist idea? And wow "The Three Pure Ones"? In that case I'd say Christianity did borrow from Taoism.

No offense at all. :D I was just trying to clarify a few things.

I'm not terribly familiar with the use of universal forces in Buddhism, but I do know that in Taoism the forces are represented in the TPO and the one big force is the Tao, or way of nature. Why does the universe behave the way it does? Why do birds fly south in the winter? Where does instinct come from? Tao. Things are the way they are because that is how they must be. It is the logical result of acting by the laws of nature. If this is how the universal forces of Buddhism are represented, then the answer to your question is yes.

By the way, there is also some historical records that suggest that after he abandoned city life, Lao-tse, or at least a highly-regarded Taoist may have traveled to India (simply described as "the Chinese missionary to India") and conversed with Prince Siddhartha Gautama about his Taoist beliefs, leading to Gautama's revelation and developing Buddhism. Yes, Taoism came before Buddhism, too.

Please know that I am not trying to dismantle your beliefs, particularly given the subtle but important differences between Buddhism and Taoism, but it's something to think about.

[Tarannosaurus]

No offense at all. :D I was just trying to clarify a few things.

I'm not terribly familiar with the use of universal forces in Buddhism, but I do know that in Taoism the forces are represented in the TPO and the one big force is the Tao, or way of nature. Why does the universe behave the way it does? Why do birds fly south in the winter? Where does instinct come from? Tao. Things are the way they are because that is how they must be. It is the logical result of acting by the laws of nature. If this is how the universal forces of Buddhism are represented, then the answer to your question is yes.

By the way, there is also some historical records that suggest that after he abandoned city life, Lao-tse, or at least a highly-regarded Taoist may have traveled to India (simply described as "the Chinese missionary to India") and conversed with Prince Siddhartha Gautama about his Taoist beliefs, leading to Gautama's revelation and developing Buddhism. Yes, Taoism came before Buddhism, too.

Please know that I am not trying to dismantle your beliefs, particularly given the subtle but important differences between Buddhism and Taoism, but it's something to think about.

Not at all, in fact having your beliefs challenged is considered a good thing in Buddhism so don't worry about it :) I guess if you think about it a lot of Eastern religions are similar. And yeah, the universal force sounds about the same.

[sqishy]

Certainly possible indeed. An interesting idea.

[LuciferSam]

Not at all, in fact having your beliefs challenged is considered a good thing in Buddhism so don't worry about it :) I guess if you think about it a lot of Eastern religions are similar. And yeah, the universal force sounds about the same.

By the way, (I've been saying that alot, haven't I?) Lao-tse says that if you can clearly describe a Tao, then it is not THE Tao, so my statement is a bit inaccurate, lol. If you are ever interested in a clearer explanation of Taoism, I recommend reading The Tao of Pooh (yes, that Pooh). It does a much better job of explaining things than I can. :D

[Tarannosaurus]

By the way, (I've been saying that alot, haven't I?) Lao-tse says that if you can clearly describe a Tao, then it is not THE Tao, so my statement is a bit inaccurate, lol. If you are ever interested in a clearer explanation of Taoism, I recommend reading The Tao of Pooh (yes, that Pooh). It does a much better job of explaining things than I can. :D

Haha sounds interesting maybe I should read it :D

[Get Outta Compton]

It's highly possible, but Christians are probably too prideful and full of themselves to admit it or even realize it. By Christians, I'm not talking about the average person who believes in Christ and/or God and lives his/her life through the values and virtues of Christianity, but I mean conservative propagandists such as Republicans or the Vatican who wish to subvert the world to their lies. I have no problem with someone believing in a higher power or adhering to a personal belief if that makes their life more serene and complete, but I absolutely despise organized religion as it embodies the exact opposite of spirituality.

[LuciferSam]

It's highly possible, but Christians are probably too prideful and full of themselves to admit it or even realize it. By Christians, I'm not talking about the average person who believes in Christ and/or God and lives his/her life through the values and virtues of Christianity, but I mean conservative propagandists such as Republicans or the Vatican who wish to subvert the world to their lies. I have no problem with someone believing in a higher power or adhering to a personal belief if that makes their life more serene and complete, but I absolutely despise organized religion as it embodies the exact opposite of spirituality.

And they're always talking about how you have to do good for others, but the way in which they go about it is ultimately rather selfish. The main reason that Christians do good deeds is so that they can go to heaven. There ARE Christians that do good things purely because they want to, but there are also an overwhelming number of Christians who think in the way that I described. This is not a reason to stop doing good things, but they could be a little more honest about why they do them.

BTW, I think you're being a bit harsh branding ALL Republicans as being radically religious. Some of them are, for sure, but it's unfair to put them all under the same umbrella.

[Get Outta Compton]

And they're always talking about how you have to do good for others, but the way in which they go about it is ultimately rather selfish. The main reason that Christians do good deeds is so that they can go to heaven. There ARE Christians that do good things purely because they want to, but there are also an overwhelming number of Christians who think in the way that I described. This is not a reason to stop doing good things, but they could be a little more honest about why they do them.

BTW, I think you're being a bit harsh branding ALL Republicans as being radically religious. Some of them are, for sure, but it's unfair to put them all under the same umbrella.

I agree with you. I may have generalized pertaining to Republicans, but you have to understand that radical religion and the merging of church and state are basically part of their party ideology. If, let's say, 90% of them are as the way I described them, which is a random number, but only to illustrate, it's easier and trivial to simply state that they all are that way, as the huge majority of them are.

As you mentioned, I, like you, have absolutely no problem with self/interpersonal adhering to a system of good values which include, as you said, helping other people, but only if it comes from honesty and not covered up selfishness.

You basically took the words right out of my mouth. :)

[darthearth]

One would have to study for some time to really get at this. To me the connection seems weak and not that much different from other possible "connections" one might imagine. The Trinity doctrine was solidified over time and baptism as far as I know was a Christian original. There were multiple stories about "God-men" in different religions. Also, the life of Jesus seems to have also been purposefully in fulfillment of Old Testament prophesies. Trinity comes from the great commission and Jesus's conversation with Philip when he asked to be shown the Father (I'm writing this from memory, I think it was Philip). I would say 75% at least cannot be seen to derive from Taoism. There may be some terminology similarities though like the "way".