Torture

[Whisper]

Whats your personal stance on torture?
Do you believe it to be an effective tool useful in gathering intel
Or do you consider it a horrible crime against humanity?

In an attempt to prime diplomats about how to spot the signs of torture when they visit Canadians in foreign jails, the Canadian government's Foreign Affairs Department instigated a "torture awareness workshop," which also informed the diplomats of where they could expect to find what CTV in Canada described as "countries and places with greater risks of torture."The list, in a training manual issued by the Foreign Affairs Department, included traditional offenders--Afghanistan, China, Egypt, Iran, Mexico, Saudi Arabia and Syria--but also included some torturers that are not generally mentioned in polite Western company: Israel and the United States. Specific mention was made of Guantánamo Bay, where, to drive the point home, the manual noted specific "US interrogation techniques," including "forced nudity, isolation, and sleep deprivation."

[Kaleidoscope Eyes]

I don't think torture is right, whether it's effective or not. I think that, given the right techniques, it could be very effective in gathering information. Everyone has a breaking point. But you can't look at this as just a way to get information, to get ahead of the competition. Real human lives are at stake. Even if people aren't being killed, mental and emotional damage could still be done. In a perfect world, we'd be past the point where we see torture as a feasible means of collecting information. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. Something like isolation I could understand, as long as there's adequate lighting, food, water, so you don't drive the person insane. I can understand it not as a means of torture but as a way of keeping a suspected enemy separate until they can be proven one way or the other. Off of the top of my head, I can't think of any specific techniques to replace torture that would be as effective. Although I don't think torture should EVER be used. (except in the kinky "safe, sane and consensual" sort of way, hehe xPPPPPP)

[redcar]

Ah torture, see fundamentally I disagree with it because it takes away peoples human rights. However it is useful at getting information and in times when its needed badly it would come in handy. Say a child goes missing and they have a suspect, torture could work there.

[Whisper]

What if the suspect your torturing is innocent?
does the end justify the means?
What if you were a suspect?
What if your child was? (theres a canadian boy being held in a maximum security prision in Guantanamo bay when he was arrested and takin there yrs ago he was only 15 [not the one in the quote])


The story begins with the shameful case of Maher Arar (http://www.maherarar.ca/), a Syrian-born Canadian who was kidnapped by US agents as he changed planes in New York in 2002, and rendered to Syria, where he was tortured for a year on behalf of the American authorities before being released.
Mr. Arar--who was awarded millions of dollars in compensation by the Canadian government in January 2007, but has yet to receive even an apology from the US administration--had been wrongly fingered by Canadian intelligence, and his case his one of many chilling examples of the damage caused by failed intelligence in the American's program of "extraordinary rendition."

[redcar]

See thats the problem, if they are innocent its a terrible thing but if they are guilty then they deserve it and it can justified, in my eyes anyway.

Like at all times it is a violation of human rights, but in certain cirumstances I don't believe people deserve human rights. If they can't act like normal civilised people, then why treat them as such.

[Whisper]

I personally think its horrible, unacceptable and primitive
I think we should be investing immensely in technology that can detect lies

basically a lie detector on crack
you train its sights on them, monitor pulse, brain wave activity, eye movements, etc...
and just ask some questions

You can't stop "evil" by becoming it
simple as that once you start down that slippery slope
where does it end?

[Serenity]

So do you have that same opinion on warfare?

[redcar]

But Cody at the end of the day we are primitive. We are animals, we live in tribes, we fight over resources, same as we have always done the only difference is it has a different appearance. Like don't get me wrong, I am not like Pol Pot here and what mass executions and torture. But I just feel the justice systems of the Western World are becoming so politically correct where prisioners are treated as equals. People need to pay for what they have done, be it emotional or physical.

[Whisper]

I have no problem shooting an armed man who's trying to shoot me
thats self defense
I have no problem with certain wars
If we've been attacked and were defending ourselves ya

but thats different then forcing someone to strip naked, depriving them food, water, light, keeping them in isolation for days weeks months at a time, depriving them of sleep for days, denying them basic human rights, denying them the Geneva Convention, disobeying international law on the treatment of enemy combatants, refusing to give them a fair trial, kidnapping, arresting someone who hasn't committed a crime etc....

That is unacceptable


Don't clump war and torture together
they are two very different things val

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

Torture is unacceptable on ALL LEVELS. Everyone is human, even terrorists and mass murderers. Every person has rights, and violating a single person rights by torturing them to potentially save others isnt right

[0=]

The intelligence you gain from torture is often a lie, anyway.

[Hyper]

And ''lie detectors'' are a load of crap.

[thesphinx]

What do you mean Lie Detectors are a load of crap? They work great in a lot of situations. I agree with Whisper though about torture.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Of course we can say that we don't like torture till the cows come home. I don't like torture either. But for SOME people. People that you KNOW without a shadow of a doubt about; I would make acceptions. I would feel no remorse for people like Osama Bin Laden or Hilter (yeah I know it's a bit late for him!) if they were tortured in the worse ways imaginable. People like them can just NOT be forgiven. Even putting torture aside, there are some people in this world that CAN NOT be changed (such as radical terrorist leaders). They are SO set in their beliefs that the only way to keep peace and freedom for everyone is for them to DIE. I think we can all agree here that SOME people just have to die for use to move forward.

[Camazotz]

Lie detectors usually work, although sometimes they do not. Anyway, torture is a terrible thing to do. But without torture, its difficult to get information from people.
For example, say we find someone who we believe to be a terrorist. You ask him if he is. He says "no". Your lie detector is busted. Do you believe him, and let him on the streets, or torture the truth out of him? To save more innocent lives, you should make sure you absolutly know hes not a terrorist.

[0=]

Hello? Anyone? Torture doesn't fucking work anyway. The "intelligence" you gain is a lie to make you stop.

[Whisper]

Lie detectors usually work, although sometimes they do not. Anyway, torture is a terrible thing to do. But without torture, its difficult to get information from people.
For example, say we find someone who we believe to be a terrorist. You ask him if he is. He says "no". Your lie detector is busted. Do you believe him, and let him on the streets, or torture the truth out of him? To save more innocent lives, you should make sure you absolutly know hes not a terrorist.

If somebody was inflicting immense physical and mental pain on you
and all you had to do to make it stop was say "yes I'm a terrorist" how long would it be before you said it just to make them happy? Just to stop the pain?

The Canadian kidnapped was tortured for a year straight, would you last that long?


Torture is an EXTREMELY ineffective method of interrogation

[theOperaGhost]

I think there are better forms of interrogation than torture. However, I want to be a criminal investigator and I think I would torture someone to a point. Not physical harm, or anything brutal, but if persay they have stated they did the crime such as a kidnapping and won't say where the child is, I think I would be inclined to torture someone to find the child.

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

Torture is never justifiable or due, even for Osama Bin laden or Hitler. It Is NOT EVER OK. And lie detectors can easily be faked, thats why they arent admissable as evidence in a court of law

[serial-thrilla]

torture isent right on any level. Unfortunatly lie detectors arent perfect either it takes skill but they can be tricked.

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

Plus, you could just be nervous and fail, if a question surprises you...