Left-wing, right-wing or the middle?

[Stronk Serb]

So, are you pro left-wing, pro right-wing or something between? State your opinions and why do you support your side.

I am left-wing, because we should work for the benefit of each other, and by going right, we will slowly degrade ourselves back to slavers and the slaves. If there was no left-wing policies, we would never have universal healthcare, the minimum wage, welfare, free or very cheap studies (for ex-Yugoslav countries and possibly ex-Soviet countries), universal basic education, our rights as free people.

[Vlerchan]

My political compass scores (see below: -7.25 , -7.85) makes me out to be more extreme than I really am. I'm a social democrat (not democratic socialist); preferring a mixed economy rather than the extremes of either Laissez-Faire Capitalism or Communism. Anyone else who wants to take the Political Compass test can do so on this website. (http://politicalcompass.org/index)

http://i41.tinypic.com/scrodz.png

[britishboy]

im right wing, but somethings (very very few) about the left wing (not far left) are good for example, the NHS, tight gun laws and happy unarmed police

[Stronk Serb]

My political compass scores (see below: -7.25 , -7.85) makes me out to be more extreme than I really am. I'm a social democrat (not democratic socialist); preferring a mixed economy rather than the extremes of either Laissez-Faire Capitalism or Communism. Anyone else who wants to take the Political Compass test can do so on this website. (http://politicalcompass.org/index)

image (http://i41.tinypic.com/scrodz.png)

Economic Left/Right: -10.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.21
http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj504/Mihailo1988/pcgraphpng1_zpsd631e641.png

It appears I am for more regulations. And I am left to the bone.

[Castle of Glass]

Idk what i am. i just have my beliefs and if they mix with multiple political parties, then oh well.

[britishboy]

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/4519/59ky.png (http://img96.imageshack.us/i/59ky.png/)
heres mine

[Vlerchan]

Idk what i am. i just have my beliefs and if they mix with multiple political parties, then oh well.

Take the Political Compass test. It usually gives a pretty accurate estimate.

[Yolo98]

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=3.38&soc=1.44
I would say im right wing , even though the test says im centre right , and libertarian, even though it doesnt come up lol.

[britishboy]

image (http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=1.25&soc=1.95)

I would say im right wing , even though the test says im centre right.

thats a shock result! I thought you would have been as right or futher than me!

[Yolo98]

thats a shock result! I thought you would have been as right or futher than me!

Dont let the test fool you , im probably more right wing than you lol.
I support the NHS, unarmed police, im anti death penalty and pro choice. They are the only centre or 'left' wing policies i support.

[Vlerchan]

image (http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=1.25&soc=1.95)

I would say im right wing , even though the test says im centre right , and libertarian, even though it doesnt come up lol.

The test does have Libertarian. It has two scales: Authoritarian/Libertarian and Capitalist(Right)/Socialist(Left). Right-Libertarianism is the Purple square.

Libertarianism is more than just a economic ideology. It extends to social policies too.

I support ... unarmed police, im anti death penalty and pro choice. They are the only centre or 'left' wing policies i support.
If that's all you support then you're probably more Conservative than Libertarian.

[Stronk Serb]

image (http://img96.imageshack.us/i/59ky.png/)
heres mine


I thought I was more up the authority scale then you :eek:

[britishboy]

Dont let the test fool you , im probably more right wing than you lol.
I support the NHS, unarmed police, im anti death penalty and pro choice. They are the only centre or 'left' wing policies i support.

lol I believe you, its a rubbish test not only focusing on the stereotypes such as anti gay views


I thought I was more up the authority scale then you :eek:

really why's that? and be proud, you cant go any more left:P you make Stalin look like a Nazi:D

[Vlerchan]

I can't help it if people don't understand their own ideologies. Denying homosexuals the right to marry and adopt would be considered Authoritarian (i.e anti-Libertarian). Libertarianism is simply conservative fiscal policy and liberal social policy (in most cases, anyway; increased gun control is considered authoritarian). It's also quite a highly regarded test; (http://politicalcompass.org/profeedback) I wouldn't have posted it otherwise.

@Comrade Mike: You're more economically Authoritarian.

[Yolo98]

lol I believe you, its a rubbish test not only focusing on the stereotypes such as anti gay views




really why's that? and be proud, you cant go any more left:P you make Stalin look like a Nazi:D

Haha i dont understand how he can go so far left , he must want to take away everyones freedoms and chain them up like dogs so he can control and manipulate them .

I can't help it if people don't understand their own ideologies. Denying homosexuals the right to marry and adopt would be considered Authoritarian (i.e anti-Libertarian). Libertarianism is simply conservative fiscal policy and liberal social policy. It's also quite a highly regarded test; I wouldn't have posted it otherwise.

@Comrade Mike: You're more economically Authoritarian.

To be honest i dont mind gay marriage , i just choose to stay in line with my parties policies. Im also completely against regulation of the press, and the gov't spying on peoples private lives via the internet etc


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[britishboy]

I can't help it if people don't understand their own ideologies. Denying homosexuals the right to marry and adopt would be considered Authoritarian (i.e anti-Libertarian). Libertarianism is simply conservative fiscal policy and liberal social policy (in most cases, anyway; increased gun control is considered authoritarian). It's also quite a highly regarded test; I wouldn't have posted it otherwise.

@Comrade Mike: You're more economically Authoritarian.
no one is blaming you, its the idiot the made the test in less than 5 minutes whos at fault
Haha i dont understand how he can go so far left , he must want to take away everyones freedoms and chain them up like dogs so he can control and manipulate them .
ikr! thats the communist dream:P

[removeddddd]

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-4.88&soc=-3.74

mine's similar to the dalai lama

[Castle of Glass]

Take the Political Compass test. It usually gives a pretty accurate estimate.

i did. put me nearly exactly at the center. like very close.

[saea97]

http://i.imgur.com/d9anwC9.png

Boringly centre, not really what I expected though.

[Stronk Serb]

Haha i dont understand how he can go so far left , he must want to take away everyones freedoms and chain them up like dogs so he can control and manipulate them .


Actually, people's personal freedom is untouched, while the economy is the most stable. If you are using the USSR as a prime communist state, get your facts right, some communists find it insulting to call them pro-Soviets. And talking about chaining up? Do the countless socialists and communists you imprisoned during the Cold War count? Or they were just a "necessary evil"?

[Yolo98]

Actually, people's personal freedom is untouched, while the economy is the most stable. If you are using the USSR as a prime communist state, get your facts right, some communists find it insulting to call them pro-Soviets. And talking about chaining up? Do the countless socialists and communists you imprisoned during the Cold War count? Or they were just a "necessary evil"?

How can peoples personal freedoms go untouched , everything belongs to the state under a communist regime, therefore peoples personal freedoms will inevitably be affected .

[Vlerchan]

How can peoples personal freedoms go untouched , everything belongs to the state under a communist regime, therefore peoples personal freedoms will inevitably be affected .

The people are the state. Government is decentralised. It's local volunteer workers councils that rule in a horizontal network that ensures equality. I'm not saying that'll ever be possible to achieve or implement but at least try to understand Communism and it's (true) inner workings before you go slating it.

Boringly centre, not really what I expected though.
I only posted the link to Political Compass in the hopes that'd get people who otherwise we're uncertain where they stood politically into the discussion. Its use is not compulsory so feel free to state where you believe you truly lie if you want

[Stronk Serb]

How can peoples personal freedoms go untouched , everything belongs to the state under a communist regime, therefore peoples personal freedoms will inevitably be affected .


The people are the state. Worker councils will ensure equality of all.

[Yolo98]

The people are the state. Worker councils will ensure equality of all.

Most of the people ( in countries like mine at least ) dont want to be the state .

[Vlerchan]

That's why most of the people (in countries like ours, at least) aren't Communist. Though, Communism has nothing to do with wanting to be the state, really. It's about economic and social equality.

One could argue however that we already are the state only with elected representatives to voice our opinions (in Republics, anyway).

[Stronk Serb]

Most of the people ( in countries like mine at least ) dont want to be the state .

It's as simple as voting.

[Yolo98]

It's as simple as voting.

The United Kingdom electorate (in 2010) went to the polls and unanimously voted for everything except radical socialism and communism.
Respect ( left wing ) - 33,251
TUSC ( trade unionist) - 12,174
Socialist labour ( left wing) - 7,196

These results are from the election as a whole , and theyr tiny tiny numbers compared to the electorate as a whole. People havent voted for socialism/communism in my country, its as simple as voting as you said.

[Vlerchan]

Mike was backing up my point that we already are the state but only with elected representatives to voice our opinions. He wasn't saying 'Vote Communism' (or at least I don't think he was.)

[Yolo98]

Mike was backing up my point that we already are the state but only with elected representatives to voice our opinions. He wasn't saying 'Vote Communism' (or at least I don't think he was.)

Whats the point of communism if no one wants it ? They ( the electorate ) choose elected representatives who are ardent anti communists.

[Cygnus]

I am quite in the middle leaning slightly to left or to right as time passes. I think both sides have their pros and cons, especially in the extremes.

[sqishy]

I am left-wing tilted to the middle.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

Left wing. Right wing politics is absolutely humorous, simply.
I also think the test is quite inaccurate, because I actually got almost neutral on there. The questions they asked were terrible questions, with few good examples.

[LouBerry]

I am quite in the middle leaning slightly to left or to right as time passes. I think both sides have their pros and cons, especially in the extremes.

This. I plan on becoming a politician, and I'll probably run as a Republican, because that's usually where I lean, but at the same time, I'm going to be supporting a lot of liberal ideas as well. I don't think it matters what I want, or what I believe, it matters what everyone else does. I'm only going to be in office to serve the people, not myself. I don't think that it's so important, Conservative, Liberal, Republican, Democrat, what ever. We've got to start learning how to work together and both compromise some of our ideas and beliefs to make things better.

[Sugaree]

image (http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=3.38&soc=1.44)
I would say im right wing , even though the test says im centre right , and libertarian, even though it doesnt come up lol.

Can you read? You're closer to authoritarian than you are to libertarian.

[James Bond]

image (http://img96.imageshack.us/i/59ky.png/)
heres mine
We're so close alike!
image (http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=3.38&soc=1.44)
I would say im right wing , even though the test says im centre right , and libertarian, even though it doesnt come up lol.

Woot woot! We're alike, exactly almost!

http://i.imgur.com/QOTI3Dxl.jpg

This. I plan on becoming a politician, and I'll probably run as a Republican, because that's usually where I lean, but at the same time, I'm going to be supporting a lot of liberal ideas as well. I don't think it matters what I want, or what I believe, it matters what everyone else does. I'm only going to be in office to serve the people, not myself. I don't think that it's so important, Conservative, Liberal, Republican, Democrat, what ever. We've got to start learning how to work together and both compromise some of our ideas and beliefs to make things better.

Good for you!

[Stronk Serb]

Whats the point of communism if no one wants it ? They ( the electorate ) choose elected representatives who are ardent anti communists.

What I was saying was: the workers don't get high positions like the president because the councils will govern for the good of the people. All workers in some area/country/continent or the world will get to vote on everything, just like the parliament except you don't choose your representatives, you represent yourself.

[Yolo98]

Can you read? You're closer to authoritarian than you are to libertarian.

Of course i can read English im from England. The test isnt 100 % , it misses out many current day questions like press freedom etc .

[britishboy]

Of course i can read English im from England. The test isnt 100 % , it misses out many current day questions like press freedom etc .

I agree with you on this, I also think its more US based instead of international and is full of stupid stereotypes, if you pro gay rights your left

[Vlerchan]

Of course i can read English im from England. The test isnt 100 % , it misses out many current day questions like press freedom etc .
It does have press freedom questions. It's also pretty up-to-date. Not being Libertarian doesn't make you any less capitalist; only less socially liberal.

Nationalism is associated with Authoritarism in the test (I think, anyway). It might be where you dropped several marks - same with britishboy.

I also think its more US based instead of international and is full of stupid stereotypes, if you pro gay rights your left.
It was made by a team of British economic journalists and professors - I very much doubt they'd ask questions from an American perspective. Pro-LGBT rights affects the Libertarian/Authoritarian axis - not the Capitalist(Right)/Socialism(Left) - as it's a question concerning individual freedom. It's only economic based questions - e.g lowering inflation is more important that lowering unemployment - that affect the Capatalism(Right)/Socialism(Left) axis.

I also think the test is quite inaccurate, because I actually got almost neutral on there. The questions they asked were terrible questions, with few good examples.
It represents a more British/European perspective on economics. This is the first board I've ever heard complaints about it on, though.

EDIT: There also seems to be a big difference between Strongly Agreeing and simply Agreeing. That could've thrown people off either.

[saea97]

I only posted the link to Political Compass in the hopes that'd get people who otherwise we're uncertain where they stood politically into the discussion. Its use is not compulsory so feel free to state where you believe you truly lie if you want

I was expecting to be placed a lot more libertarian, don't know how that happened. The tiny right leaning fiscally is probably pretty accurate.

[tovaris]

LEFT! It is athe best choice.
And Noone sane would be Janšist.

[Verminicious Knid]

Left!

I'm Agnostic, believe firmly in Gay Rights and am Pro-choice.

[GypsyGirl]

In the middle

[Cygnus]

Left!

I'm Agnostic, believe firmly in Gay Rights and am Pro-choice.

Thats being liberal, not leftist.

[Human]

I'm left, but I think England needs tighter immigration policies which I assume would be right wing. I'm in the middle of the left-libertarian section on the political compass

[Walter Powers]

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=5.75&soc=0.31

I don't know if I trust this, it says I'm way more left then Obama!

[SaxyHaloBeast]

I tend to agree with the right. They have always made more sense to me and usually believe in the same morals I have grown to appreciate.

Pro-life. The right to live comes before the right to choose.

[Sir Suomi]

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=2.12&soc=2.92

I couldn't find any historical figure close to mine :(

[Capto]

I am strikingly similar politically to Gandhi.

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-7.75&soc=-4.21

[Jess]

I guess I'm more to the left, as I agree with the views there, but not far-left or anything like that

[Sugaree]

http://puu.sh/4pbVy.png

That's where I am. Libertarian left makes the most sense to me, as it doesn't necessitate the usual leftist thinking and actually respects the individual's personal rights to freedom. I'm actually quite close to the Dalai Lama, which makes me rather proud.

[Poisonberry]

So, are you pro left-wing, pro right-wing or something between? State your opinions and why do you support your side.

I am left-wing, because we should work for the benefit of each other, and by going right, we will slowly degrade ourselves back to slavers and the slaves. If there was no left-wing policies, we would never have universal healthcare, the minimum wage, welfare, free or very cheap studies (for ex-Yugoslav countries and possibly ex-Soviet countries), universal basic education, our rights as free people.

I've done those where are you on the political spectrum things but I don't think they're all that accurate. I usually come out a little bit Left and a little bit Libertarian. I think it's a lot more complicated than that. I'm probably a lot more Right on economics and Libertarian on social issues.

I don't think the hard Left/socialist model is viable in any sort of long term. We've seen the attempts at communism that have failed and many of the socialist programs like universal healthcare are such a burden on the countries that have them tax-wise and the actual healthcare you get is sub-standard to put it politely.

People respond to incentives. If you don't make more for working harder, and in fact make the same even if you barely work at all, where is the incentive to do well? Simply put, it's not there and that's why communism will never work long term and socialism is so very burdensome on the people it purports to help.

Going down your list: universal healthcare, min wage, welfare, and free school I'd say the sooner we get rid of these things the better. And public school would be here regardless of Left policies because business (or capital, if you prefer) needed a work force that could read and write and do simple math. Ever notice that, and an unquestioning obedience to authority are all public school honestly attempt to accomplish?

Need further proof? Why do the people that can afford it pay for the best healthcare they can? Why do you think well educated people don't end up in min wage jobs (thus don't require that safety net)? Why do you think people that can afford it send their kids to private school? Your list of great things is a list of the bottom of the barrel. If you're happy that way, um... good, I guess, I want so much more that I would never settle for those things you think are great.

[Stronk Serb]

I've done those where are you on the political spectrum things but I don't think they're all that accurate. I usually come out a little bit Left and a little bit Libertarian. I think it's a lot more complicated than that. I'm probably a lot more Right on economics and Libertarian on social issues.

Yes, I agree those tests are not 100% accurate and they throw your exact orientation a bit off course. I think it has something to do with the agree answer being a lot weaker then strongly agree and vice versa. At least that's for the test I took.

I don't think the hard Left/socialist model is viable in any sort of long term. We've seen the attempts at communism that have failed and many of the socialist programs like universal healthcare are such a burden on the countries that have them tax-wise and the actual healthcare you get is sub-standard to put it politely.

The people at least have access to it, and the universal healthcare in Serbia is getting reformed, I had a minor surgery a few days ago, and the hospital where I had it was pretty modernized. Not on-par with the ones in the US, but close enough.

People respond to incentives. If you don't make more for working harder, and in fact make the same even if you barely work at all, where is the incentive to do well? Simply put, it's not there and that's why communism will never work long term and socialism is so very burdensome on the people it purports to help.

In Yugoslavia you actually earned more for staying longer at work. My grandparents came here from the rural areas, worked their butts off in their studies, got good jobs, got worker housing from the state, and well-paid jobs. You could live off whatever job you like. Socialism and communism collapsed because they were implemented in a wrong way. A man who has a lot of power is always a bad idea.

Going down your list: universal healthcare, min wage, welfare, and free school I'd say the sooner we get rid of these things the better.

Then you will have an uneducated, poor and sick rabble which would knock on the doors of the rich people and demand better living standards. The same thing happened in Imperial Russia, the low-class people were sick of the Tsar who did not want to rule, who plunged Russia in what they saw as a pointless war, who was a tyrant. Sadly, the revolution plunged the newly-formed USSR into another authoritarian state. Yet after implementing universal education, universal healthcare and the minimum wage, the living standard went way up. My dad actually studied from Soviet books when he was preparing exams, he said they wrote them in a better and more understandable way then the ones he could find in Serbia in the late eighties and in the beginning of the nineties.

And public school would be here regardless of Left policies because business (or capital, if you prefer) needed a work force that could read and write and do simple math. Ever notice that, and an unquestioning obedience to authority are all public school honestly attempt to accomplish?

People wanted education so that they could have better jobs, earn more and have a better living. It probably suited the businessmen because they needed people who could read and understand basic mathematics as the jobs got more complex

Need further proof? Why do the people that can afford it pay for the best healthcare they can?

Because instead of a regular doctor, they want an university professor to examine and treat them. If the difference is marginal, I think people do it because they think the more expensive doctor will treat their usual illnesses better. Here if you are having some complicated health problems, they send you to the doctor who has the most experience with that illness, or if you need complicated surgery, they send you to the surgeon that qualifies the most for that type of surgery. If you really want to pay an university professor thinking he will do a 10 times better job and pay him 20 times more then you paid for government insurance out of your gross salary, then be my guest.

Why do you think well educated people don't end up in min wage jobs (thus don't require that safety net)?

They end up in a minimum wage job because of the economic crisis. Companies decided to thin out their staff because they will earn more money, not lose it. They fired educated people who had a lot of experience and earned a lot, and hired educated novices and gave them a smaller salary. And people who finished their studies have no jobs they qualify for because nobody is willing to accept them.

Why do you think people that can afford it send their kids to private school?

I will admit, the public schools have flaws, but they offer education so that you can make progress, so that you can achieve your goal of getting a job you want.

Your list of great things is a list of the bottom of the barrel. If you're happy that way, um... good, I guess, I want so much more that I would never settle for those things you think are great.

I am happy that I have those rights because they give me a stable foundation to reach the job I want. After finishing high school I will apply at the Military Academy for junior officer course. I would have to pay a fortune to get there if there was no socialism here.

[Poisonberry]

There is just no way I'm going to bother to respond to the way you picked my post apart.

A few thoughts though...

People have access to universal healthcare in the US. It's called the emergency room. The poor get it for free, the rest of us pay for it through higher costs. As I said, there is no such thing as free healthcare.

The "uneducated, poor and sick rabble" will always knock on the door of the rich. No implementation of government has been able to solve this problem. Socialism and similar systems seek to make everyone equal by bringing everyone down to the same level instead of letting those with more ambition so higher.

The public compulsory education system in the US evolved specifically because of big business. What the "people" wanted had nothing to do with it. Look up the history of the industrial revolution for further reading.

Also the main goal of public education in the US is to create docile, compliant workers. If you somehow manage to gt educated in the process you're the exception not the rule.

Be your guest to have he best healthcare while also paying for crap healthcare for everyone else? Sweet offer, no thanks.

I'm glad you're happy with what you've got, I wouldn't be so I'll have to respectfully say no thank you to such systems.