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View Full Version : British Parliament votes down Syrian intervention


Neptune
August 29th, 2013, 08:37 PM
LONDON (AP) -- British Prime Minister David Cameron lost a vote endorsing military action against Syria by 13 votes Thursday, a stunning defeat that will almost guarantee that Britain plays no direct role in any U.S. attack on Bashar Assad's government.

A grim-faced Cameron conceded after the vote that "the British Parliament, reflecting the views of the British people, does not want to see British military action."

The prime minister said that while he still believed in a "tough response" to the alleged use of chemical weapons by Assad's regime, he would respect the will of Parliament.

Responding to the vote, the White House said that a decision on a possible military strike against Syria will be guided by America's best interests, suggesting the U.S. may act alone if other nations won't help.

The defeat was as dramatic as it was unexpected. At the start of the week, Cameron had seemed poised to join Washington in possible military action against Assad. The suspected chemical weapons attacks took place Aug. 21 in suburbs east and west of Damascus. The humanitarian group Doctors Without Borders has said the strikes killed 355 people.

Gruesome images of sickened men, women and children writhing on the floor drew outrage from across the world, and Cameron recalled Parliament from its summer break for an emergency vote, which was widely seen as a prelude to international action.

"The video footage illustrates some of the most sickening human suffering imaginable," Cameron told lawmakers before the vote, arguing that the most dangerous thing to do was to "stand back and do nothing."

But the push for strikes against the Syrian regime began to lose momentum as questions were raised about the intelligence underpinning the move. During a debate with lawmakers, he conceded that there was still a sliver of uncertainty about whether Assad truly was behind the attacks.

"In the end there is no 100 percent certainty about who is responsible," Cameron said, although he insisted that officials were still as "as certain as possible" that Assad's forces were responsible.

That was not enough for Britain's Labour Party, which is still smarting from its ill-fated decision to champion the invasion of Iraq in 2003. The party announced its opposition to the move despite Cameron's concessions, which included a promise to give U.N. inspectors time to report back to the Security Council and to do his outmost to secure a resolution there.

He also promised to give lawmakers a second vote in a bid to assuage fears that Britain was being rushed into an attack.

Cameron's impassioned pleas and hours of debate failed to dispel lingering suspicions that what was billed as a limited campaign would turn into an Iraq-style quagmire, and the prime minister lost the late-night vote 285-272. Some lawmakers shouted: "Resign!"

Tony Travers, the director of the government department at the London School of Economics, said Cameron had clearly miscalculated when he brought Parliament back early from its summer recess. He said the move had been unpopular even within Cameron's Conservative Party.

"Clearly this will be seen as a defeat, it suggests he got the politics wrong, both with the opposition and with some members of his own party," Travers said. "It's not great, it's not brilliant, nor is it the end of the world for him. He's lost votes before. It doesn't necessarily stop them taking further action, but they are going to have to start again really."

He said there was "not a lot" of public support for British military activity in Syria.

Defense Secretary Philip Hammond confirmed that British forces would not be involved in any potential strike, something he said would doubtless upset Washington - and please Assad.

"It is certainly going to place some strain on the special relationship," Hammond told BBC radio. "The Americans do understand the parliamentary process that we have to go through.... Common sense must tell us that the Assad regime is going to be a little bit less uncomfortable tonight as a result of this decision in Parliament."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_BRITAIN_SYRIA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-08-29-19-58-23

Thoughts? This a good or bad thing?

Slippers
August 30th, 2013, 05:37 AM
These military 'interventions' have rarely worked in the past and appear to have exacerbated domestic attacks here in the UK within the extreme element of Islam. I'm hoping David Cameron doesn't proceed with military force and subsequently gives these home-grown terrorists more credibility. We'll see...

Harry Smith
August 30th, 2013, 05:50 AM
It's good that Cameron went to parliament about it, very surprising result though

DerBear
August 30th, 2013, 06:25 AM
I'm glad we've taken a step back and Labour has intervened. I feel we need much more evidence and waiting until the UN has conducted an investigation is a good idea. Once we have more information on what is actually happening then we can go and give military action.

Walter Powers
August 30th, 2013, 01:57 PM
I'm glad we've taken a step back and Labour has intervened. I feel we need much more evidence and waiting until the UN has conducted an investigation is a good idea. Once we have more information on what is actually happening then we can go and give military action.

By which time the US will have done it for you, as is always the case.

Human
August 30th, 2013, 02:14 PM
Hallelujah, I'm glad we aren't intervening. Leave it to others to squabble.

DerBear
August 30th, 2013, 02:28 PM
By which time the US will have done it for you, as is always the case.

So just because we like to wait and have all evidence before we act, that isn't a bad thing. We just aren't always as ready to rush in all guns blazing like the US is. We are waiting for the UN to conduct an investigation into what is happening then basing what results we get from the UN we will act. Waiting until having all the facts isn't such a bad idea now is it?

Walter Powers
August 30th, 2013, 02:35 PM
So just because we like to wait and have all evidence before we act, that isn't a bad thing. We just aren't always as ready to rush in all guns blazing like the US is. We are waiting for the UN to conduct an investigation into what is happening then basing what results we get from the UN we will act. Waiting until having all the facts isn't such a bad idea now is it?

There is already conclusive evidence. Waiting any longer is just abandoning your most important ally.

Hallelujah, I'm glad we aren't intervening. Leave it to others to squabble.

Okay that's just messed up. So only Americans should have to die to stop this completely immoral means of warfare?

Harry Smith
August 30th, 2013, 02:38 PM
So just because we like to wait and have all evidence before we act, that isn't a bad thing. We just aren't always as ready to rush in all guns blazing like the US is. We are waiting for the UN to conduct an investigation into what is happening then basing what results we get from the UN we will act. Waiting until having all the facts isn't such a bad idea now is it?

Nah your forgetting that America is always correct on Foreign Policy, and us brits are so useless.

I agree 100% with what Derric said, the US are going to act stupidity if they go in all guns blazing without the UN. We stood by the US in Iraq and we looked like complete idiots afterwards.

It's also funny to be lectured by an American about taking our time- it took you 2 years to join World war 2

DerBear
August 30th, 2013, 02:39 PM
There is already conclusive evidence. Waiting any longer is just abandoning your most important ally.

The reason we are waiting for the UN to conduct a report and vote is because is because the labour party and other parties feel that the evidence isn't conclusive enough to take direct action and waiting awhile to see exactly what the UN finds with their investigation.

Specifically we are waiting on seeing (among other things) more compelling evidence of chemical weapon use and I believe waiting for that evidence is a good idea. If we act we could end up endangering our people or making the situation worse.

Human
August 30th, 2013, 05:43 PM
There is already conclusive evidence. Waiting any longer is just abandoning your most important ally.



Okay that's just messed up. So only Americans should have to die to stop this completely immoral means of warfare?

Personally, I believe all forms of warfare are immoral unless they're attacking you. I don't differentiate between blowing people to bits with bombs and chemically attacking people.
I don't think anyone is 100% certain it was the regime that used chemical weapons either. Rebels have been found with 2KG of Sarin.

Gopher
August 31st, 2013, 07:58 PM
I agree with the concept of waiting for the UN to make a decision because ultimately the UN should be the world police, intervening when countries governments are gassing and killing their own innocent civilians. Problem is thought is that the UN is currently the biggest waste of time in these matters. It will take them a few weeks to conduct an investigation where they will only ask questions not send people. Then it will go on for a few weeks of debate on the topic in which the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) will eventually be tasked with making a decision. When the UNSC makes a choice one of the 5 countries with ultimate power of veto (USA, France, UK, China, and Russia) will pull their veto, that country being Russia because they are allies with the Syrian government currently gassing. So the UN will talk about doing something until they ultimately DON'T DO ANYTHING. While I don't condone other countries policing other countries, at least countries like Britain and America are thoroughly considering going in to save lives. The UN SHOULD step in but even if they do they won't be allowed to act unless fired upon or enter dangerous war areas, they will only provide medicine and aid to those who get to them and get to a DMZ, if the Syrian government fights against them they will pull out. So I think it's wrong to wait to save lives. That is my say on the matter at hand.

Cygnus
August 31st, 2013, 08:59 PM
I am glad it was voted down, as everyone else said, there should be strong conclusive evidence before doing a military intervention. The US is going to intervene anyways, which is okay with me since they are just going to increase their debt and send random people to die at once, which is fine with me.

Bazinga
September 1st, 2013, 05:57 AM
Even if there are fresh chemical attacks in Syria, George Osborne seems to think even then we wouldn't intervene with military

http://http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/syria-britain-wont-use-military-2242758 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/syria-britain-wont-use-military-2242758)