A Question for Marriage Equality Supporters

[SaxyHaloBeast]

I would like to ask the supporters of same-sex marriage a question. Many of you claim to support marriage equality, but you are only advocating for same-sex marriage and no other forms of marriage such as plural marriage, underage marriage, inner-family marriage, etc. If you truly support marriage equality, why not also advocate for these other forms of marriage?

[Harry Smith]

I would like to ask the supporters of same-sex marriage a question. Many of you claim to support marriage equality, but you are only advocating for same-sex marriage and no other forms of marriage such as plural marriage, underage marriage, inner-family marriage, etc. If you truly support marriage equality, why not also advocate for these other forms of marriage?

The ironic thing is that this argument is used by people who oppose gay marriage.

Plural marriage completely ignores the western concept of a relationship, the idea that you can commit yourself to one person. That's why we don't have that, marriage is between two people who love each other.

Underage marriage is just terrible, look at countries like sudan where it's allowed to happen. You have 10 year old girls being sold of by their parents and they end up marrying a 50 year old man and be using as a sex slave. Underage children also lack the education or maturity to commit to another person, the same reason why you can't smoke, drive or drink until your 17/18.

Inner family marriage is not allowed for the same reason that incest is not allowed, because the child born can have serious genetic problems and for that reason the state cannot endorse something which would lead to widespread confusion, on a tax or cenus bill would you list your wife as your wife or your sister.

To me this just seems like a very poor way of you trying to ridicule gay marriage, it's the same tripe used by right wing politicians in america who claim that homosexuality will lead to incest and bestiality

[Sir Suomi]

That's a very well thought out post. I suppose it may be due to the fact that it violates many people's existing morals, although, if they use that reasoning behind not supporting those kinds of marriage, then they really have no case for same-sex marriage, now do they?

[CharlieHorse]

The ironic thing is that this argument is used by people who oppose gay marriage.

Plural marriage completely ignores the western concept of a relationship, the idea that you can commit yourself to one person. That's why we don't have that, marriage is between two people who love each other.

Underage marriage is just terrible, look at countries like sudan where it's allowed to happen. You have 10 year old girls being sold of by their parents and they end up marrying a 50 year old man and be using as a sex slave. Underage children also lack the education or maturity to commit to another person, the same reason why you can't smoke, drive or drink until your 17/18.

Inner family marriage is not allowed for the same reason that incest is not allowed, because the child born can have serious genetic problems and for that reason the state cannot endorse something which would lead to widespread confusion, on a tax or cenus bill would you list your wife as your wife or your sister.

To me this just seems like a very poor way of you trying to ridicule gay marriage, it's the same tripe used by right wing politicians in america who claim that homosexuality will lead to incest and bestiality

This.
Just this ^.
Thank you. :)

[TheDeepestDepths]

The ironic thing is that this argument is used by people who oppose gay marriage.

Plural marriage completely ignores the western concept of a relationship, the idea that you can commit yourself to one person. That's why we don't have that, marriage is between two people who love each other.

Underage marriage is just terrible, look at countries like sudan where it's allowed to happen. You have 10 year old girls being sold of by their parents and they end up marrying a 50 year old man and be using as a sex slave. Underage children also lack the education or maturity to commit to another person, the same reason why you can't smoke, drive or drink until your 17/18.

Inner family marriage is not allowed for the same reason that incest is not allowed, because the child born can have serious genetic problems and for that reason the state cannot endorse something which would lead to widespread confusion, on a tax or cenus bill would you list your wife as your wife or your sister.

To me this just seems like a very poor way of you trying to ridicule gay marriage, it's the same tripe used by right wing politicians in america who claim that homosexuality will lead to incest and bestiality

You took the words from my mouth and put them on paper better than I ever could.

I also just want to point out that I have nothing against things like plural marriage but to fight for and lump them all together would lessen the chance of Gay marriage being accepted. Fight your battles one at a time, yeah?

[Jess]

The ironic thing is that this argument is used by people who oppose gay marriage.

Plural marriage completely ignores the western concept of a relationship, the idea that you can commit yourself to one person. That's why we don't have that, marriage is between two people who love each other.

Underage marriage is just terrible, look at countries like Sudan where it's allowed to happen. You have 10 year old girls being sold off by their parents and they end up marrying a 50 year old man and used as a sex slave. Underage children also lack the education or maturity to commit to another person, the same reason why you can't smoke, drive or drink until you're 17/18.

Inner family marriage is not allowed for the same reason that incest is not allowed, because the child born can have serious genetic problems and for that reason the state cannot endorse something which would lead to widespread confusion, on a tax or cenus bill would you list your wife as your wife or your sister.

To me this just seems like a very poor way of you trying to ridicule gay marriage, it's the same tripe used by right wing politicians in America who claim that homosexuality will lead to incest and bestiality

This. Harry summarized it very well (corrected some grammar, sorry :rolleyes:). My mom used the same logic (well at least the inner family marriage one), but I did a poor job of arguing against her.

[SaxyHaloBeast]

The ironic thing is that this argument is used by people who oppose gay marriage.

Plural marriage completely ignores the western concept of a relationship, the idea that you can commit yourself to one person. That's why we don't have that, marriage is between two people who love each other.

Underage marriage is just terrible, look at countries like sudan where it's allowed to happen. You have 10 year old girls being sold of by their parents and they end up marrying a 50 year old man and be using as a sex slave. Underage children also lack the education or maturity to commit to another person, the same reason why you can't smoke, drive or drink until your 17/18.

Inner family marriage is not allowed for the same reason that incest is not allowed, because the child born can have serious genetic problems and for that reason the state cannot endorse something which would lead to widespread confusion, on a tax or cenus bill would you list your wife as your wife or your sister.

To me this just seems like a very poor way of you trying to ridicule gay marriage, it's the same tripe used by right wing politicians in america who claim that homosexuality will lead to incest and bestiality

My point here was not to ridicule gay marriage, not at all. I wanted to point out that the argument "equality of marriage" can apply to more than just same-sex marriage. If same-sex marriage is eventually legalized in the entire US and the argument of marriage equality was a significant factor, then other groups may push for said marriage equality and use the same argument. It would be a slippery slope, so my point is that "equality of marriage" or "love is love" may not be the best arguments to use, since many other groups will use it too.

Now for your points on each of the forms of marriage. Technically plural marriage is a marriage between two people, but one of the people is also married to someone else. It's one person being married to more than one person, but each of those being an individual marriage: two people who love each other. Is it OK to discriminate against how many people you love, but not OK to discriminate against what gender you love?

Underage marriage is a tricky subject. At what age should people be allowed to marry? Well if two people love each other, should they not be able to marry? If two kids in middle or high school want to get married and they love each other, is there love not good enough for them to be married?

Your argument against inner-family marriage was that genetics and families can get messed up. But people against gay marriage use the genetics and families argument as well, saying that gays cannot have children and start their own families.

My point here is that there needs to be a consistency when it comes to marriage. Our society for the longest time has had marriage the way it is (between one man and one woman, both of age and of different families) for a reason. Marriage needs to be held at a constant, and to change what is accepted might invite further change.

[Harry Smith]

My point here was not to ridicule gay marriage, not at all. I wanted to point out that the argument "equality of marriage" can apply to more than just same-sex marriage. If same-sex marriage is eventually legalized in the entire US and the argument of marriage equality was a significant factor, then other groups may push for said marriage equality and use the same argument. It would be a slippery slope, so my point is that "equality of marriage" or "love is love" may not be the best arguments to use, since many other groups will use it too.

Now for your points on each of the forms of marriage. Technically plural marriage is a marriage between two people, but one of the people is also married to someone else. It's one person being married to more than one person, but each of those being an individual marriage: two people who love each other. Is it OK to discriminate against how many people you love, but not OK to discriminate against what gender you love?

Underage marriage is a tricky subject. At what age should people be allowed to marry? Well if two people love each other, should they not be able to marry? If two kids in middle or high school want to get married and they love each other, is there love not good enough for them to be married?

Your argument against inner-family marriage was that genetics and families can get messed up. But people against gay marriage use the genetics and families argument as well, saying that gays cannot have children and start their own families.

My point here is that there needs to be a consistency when it comes to marriage. Our society for the longest time has had marriage the way it is (between one man and one woman, both of age and of different families) for a reason. Marriage needs to be held at a constant, and to change what is accepted might invite further change.

I knew your whole point was to deny me to right to marry a man, because damn the last thing we can have is these damn homosexuals getting married.

A marriage is a commitment between TWO people, homosexual marriage doesn't change that at all, It keeps it between two people who both love each other and can commit to each other. The foundation of marriage is love and trust, something gay marriage doesn't take away.

They can wait until their 16, with the current situation I could 100 yet I would be unable to marry, they simply have to wait- if their love is strong enough for marriage then the can get married at 16. I know many couples who claim to be in love at the age of 14 but it was purely just hormones and lust.

My argument was that inner family marriage causes defects, gay marriage doesn't produce children with birth defects because it doesn't produce a child naturally. Do you want to stop infertile couples marrying? The next King of Britain is married to a women he can't physically have kids to, does that mean he is unfit for marriage. Gay marriage doesn't produce a disabled child- incestuous marriage does.

Your argument about opposition to change was used to defend slavery, southerns said if we give Negro's freedom then it will escalate to giving them the right to vote. People look bad in shock at how we treated black people, I hope that in 60 years time we'll look back in shock that so many people around the world weren't even allowed to marry and people like you will be thrown to waste basket of History.

How does it fucking effect your life if I get married to man, I don't care if you hate homosexuals, I do care if you suggest I shouldn't get the right to marry the man that I won't. The above three you provided show how you can't marry an indiviual (sister, other's wife, underage girl) gay marriage stops me from marrying any of the men in world.

Love is Equal.

[teen.jpg]

I have nothing against polyamorous marriages or even inner-family marriage, but I'm just speaking for myself. Love is love.

However, a kid and an adult is just wrong.

[Stronk Serb]

Plural marriage is not really a marriage, you cannot feel the same way about all of your spouses. Underage marriages are just wrong, it's like legalizing pedophilia, as long as the child is married, and marrying children with children is also wrong, they don't know the consequences. Inner-family marriages can cause genetic problems if the couple decides to have a child, and if 10% of married couples are inner-family married, it will cause a problem even if half of them decide to have kids, not to talk about unmarried ones. On the other hand, homosexual marriage is not wrong, why would a gay guy be forbidden to marry a man he loves? Just because he likes men? Give me a break.

[Zach4110]

The ironic thing is that this argument is used by people who oppose gay marriage.

Plural marriage completely ignores the western concept of a relationship, the idea that you can commit yourself to one person. That's why we don't have that, marriage is between two people who love each other.

Underage marriage is just terrible, look at countries like sudan where it's allowed to happen. You have 10 year old girls being sold of by their parents and they end up marrying a 50 year old man and be using as a sex slave. Underage children also lack the education or maturity to commit to another person, the same reason why you can't smoke, drive or drink until your 17/18.

Inner family marriage is not allowed for the same reason that incest is not allowed, because the child born can have serious genetic problems and for that reason the state cannot endorse something which would lead to widespread confusion, on a tax or cenus bill would you list your wife as your wife or your sister.

To me this just seems like a very poor way of you trying to ridicule gay marriage, it's the same tripe used by right wing politicians in america who claim that homosexuality will lead to incest and bestiality

And here's you trying to dictate morality to other people who aren't harming you.

[Harry Smith]

And here's you trying to dictate morality to other people who aren't harming you.

Aren't harming me? That's above ironic. How the fuck does gay marriage someone who isn't gay? Why is it even an issue anymore? When someone campaigns against equal marriage they're harming my very rights, do you really think I'm just going to sit back and nod?

[Zach4110]

Aren't harming me? That's above ironic. How the fuck does gay marriage someone who isn't gay? Why is it even an issue anymore? When someone campaigns against equal marriage they're harming my very rights, do you really think I'm just going to sit back and nod?

You're against polygamy and incestuous marriage though. That's because you find it immoral, but other people might not.

[Harry Smith]

You're against polygamy and incestuous marriage though. That's because you find it immoral, but other people might not.

I'm not against it because it's immoral, I'm against it because not only is it impractical but for me it overrules the basic foundation of marriage- love and trust

[Zach4110]

I'm not against it because it's immoral, I'm against it because not only is it impractical but for me it overrules the basic foundation of marriage- love and trust

Multiple peeps can't love and trust each other? Peeps in the same family can't love and trust each other? And where have I heard "basic foundation of marriage" before? Hmm...

[Harry Smith]

Multiple peeps can't love and trust each other? Peeps in the same family can't love and trust each other? And where have I heard "basic foundation of marriage" before? Hmm...

No, this is about gay marriage- this is just a way of people perverting gay marriage and trying to oppose it, it's like when anyone opposed to women rights says that you should be able to hit women so that Equality exists.

To me marriage is about two people committing their love to each other- something that polygamy doesn't offer, marriage is about spending the rest of your life with one person.

Incestuous marriage leads to children with birth defects and and their grandchildren will have birth defects, how will they file it on a tax form or a cenus- brother and sister or husband and wife.

Why does everyone assume that gay marriage means ending marriage all together, I still respect the values of marriage- love, trust and commitment.

Do you support gay marriage?

[Syvelocin]

I do, actually, not mind polygamy and incest. Like Jayson said, underage marriage is the only one of your examples I am fully against. Otherwise, if it's between consenting adults, I see no harm in any sort of alternative marriage.

[Jess]

No, this is about gay marriage- this is just a way of people perverting gay marriage and trying to oppose it, it's like when anyone opposed to women rights says that you should be able to hit women so that Equality exists.

To me marriage is about two people committing their love to each other- something that polygamy doesn't offer, marriage is about spending the rest of your life with one person.

Incestuous marriage leads to children with birth defects and and their grandchildren will have birth defects, how will they file it on a tax form or a cenus- brother and sister or husband and wife.

Why does everyone assume that gay marriage means ending marriage all together, I still respect the values of marriage- love, trust and commitment.

Do you support gay marriage?

Basically this, but I want to add something...

Incestuous marriage doesn't have to end up with children, like any marriage. Why does marriage have to all be about children, children, children? They don't need to have children. Though of course you're right in saying there will be problems when they do...but I'm just saying an incestuous marriage doesn't have to lead to children.

[LouBerry]

I would like to ask the supporters of same-sex marriage a question. Many of you claim to support marriage equality, but you are only advocating for same-sex marriage and no other forms of marriage such as plural marriage, underage marriage, inner-family marriage, etc. If you truly support marriage equality, why not also advocate for these other forms of marriage?

Harry already summed this up perfectly, but holy shit.

Plural marriage? No. Fucking respect women, and pick one and marry her. There is a difference in supporting equality and supporting stupidity.

Underage marriage? Until you are in your twenties parts of your brain are not fully developed yet. Guess which parts? The ones that involve decision making and being able to understand and work through decisions. That's why young people do dumb shit. So, no.

This one is my favorite. Inner-family marriage. Well, here's the thing. If two cousins fall in love, who am I to judge them? I mean, they shouldn't be able to have children because of the risks to the child, but I don't really give a shit. But, mother and son? Father and daughter, that isn't okay. That's their damn kid.

Two adult women/men who fully understand their decision, and are fully committed to each other, and are in love? Why the fuck shouldn't that be okay? There isn't even a reason that it shouldn't be okay, except Jesus said so.

[Zach4110]

No, this is about gay marriage- this is just a way of people perverting gay marriage and trying to oppose it, it's like when anyone opposed to women rights says that you should be able to hit women so that Equality exists.

To me marriage is about two people committing their love to each other- something that polygamy doesn't offer, marriage is about spending the rest of your life with one person.

Incestuous marriage leads to children with birth defects and and their grandchildren will have birth defects, how will they file it on a tax form or a cenus- brother and sister or husband and wife.

Why does everyone assume that gay marriage means ending marriage all together, I still respect the values of marriage- love, trust and commitment.

Do you support gay marriage?

Of course I support same-sex marriage. And why does it have to be two people? Because you say so? And marriage is not pregnancy.

[Harry Smith]

Of course I support same-sex marriage. And why does it have to be two people? Because you say so? And marriage is not pregnancy.

I know that very much, that's why I support infertile couples marrying and gay marriage.

You do know that in cases of polygamy leads to terrible levels of abuse to women, this is why it's legal in countries where women and LGBT rights are low- Africa.

Polygamy also encourages abuse, neglect and forced marriage. This is why so many women rights groups have campaigned against it.

It's also breaches International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and the UN have said it should be outlawed.

Marriage is about loving one person

[SaxyHaloBeast]

I know that very much, that's why I support infertile couples marrying and gay marriage.

You do know that in cases of polygamy leads to terrible levels of abuse to women, this is why it's legal in countries where women and LGBT rights are low- Africa.

Polygamy also encourages abuse, neglect and forced marriage. This is why so many women rights groups have campaigned against it.

It's also breaches International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and the UN have said it should be outlawed.

Marriage is about loving one person

Just to be clear, there is no such thing as the right to marry. It isn't a God-given or constitutional right so stop saying it is.

So because of a few bad cases of polygamy, we should outlaw it? I believe there are instances of gay rape in homosexuals that have led people to call for the outlawing of homosexuality, but they are shot down as bigots. Polygamy isn't the only place where abuse happens. It happens in all different kinds of marriage. I'm not advocating for polygamy here, but I am surprised that you are so quick to shoot down a type of marriage, when after all, love is love, right?

[Harry Smith]

Just to be clear, there is no such thing as the right to marry. It isn't a God-given or constitutional right so stop saying it is.

God given right? God doesn't exist mate

So because of a few bad cases of polygamy, we should outlaw it? I believe there are instances of gay rape in homosexuals that have led people to call for the outlawing of homosexuality, but they are shot down as bigots. Polygamy isn't the only place where abuse happens. It happens in all different kinds of marriage. I'm not advocating for polygamy here, but I am surprised that you are so quick to shoot down a type of marriage, when after all, love is love, right?

We should outlaw it? It's already outlawed. There are many more cases of rape against women so anyone who uses that argument isn't very smart.

There are so many issues with polygamy

Multiplication of numerous government benefits that would ordinarily be issued only to one other person--would obviously cost more to taxpayers.
- Divorce settlement issues--how many parties would have to consent to a divorce? Who pays alimony?
- Issues with child support--children would still be legal burden to other members of marriage even if they aren't biological parents
- Conflicts about spousal medical decisions.
- Issues with taxation and eligibility for low-income families.

It's degrading to women, it always has been. It shows everything that is wrong with the world, it leads to women being into forced relationships and being kept as slaves. It's always 10 men with 1 wife.

Gay marriage keeps it as love between two people, it doesn't change the entire legal structure that polygamy does

[Jess]

We should outlaw it? It's already outlawed. There are many more cases of rape against women so anyone who uses that argument isn't very smart.

There are so many issues with polygamy

Multiplication of numerous government benefits that would ordinarily be issued only to one other person--would obviously cost more to taxpayers.
- Divorce settlement issues--how many parties would have to consent to a divorce? Who pays alimony?
- Issues with child support--children would still be legal burden to other members of marriage even if they aren't biological parents
- Conflicts about spousal medical decisions.
- Issues with taxation and eligibility for low-income families.

It's degrading to women, it always has been. It shows everything that is wrong with the world, it leads to women being into forced relationships and being kept as slaves. It's always 10 men with 1 wife.

Gay marriage keeps it as love between two people, it doesn't change the entire legal structure that polygamy does

Another 5 stars

Though for the 10 men with 1 wife, sometimes it's one man with tons of wives. Of course, it could be because the man is bored with one woman and goes marry who knows how many more and mess around with them...not really true love.


EDIT: I don't like plural marriage but all in all, the only one I'm against is underage marriage.

[Milky Joe]

Hmmm, and interesting read. I've read through this and I think SaxyHaloBeast has made a good point. There's a whiff of hypocrisy about this subject. People are happy to accept gay marriage as, among our generation at least, being gay it's widely accepted yet other 'alternative' relationships such as plural marriage (I'm assuming this is a correct term, I've never heard it to be honest) or inter family marriage are still taboo.

A lot of people just go with their own tastes rather than any logical reasoning. The argument about women being abused and oppressed in other countries isn't much of an argument against allowing multiple partners in the west. The societies and laws are totally different. Women are oppressed and abused within 'normal' marriage in those places! Should we ban that over here? Also that was the argument they used against lowering the gay age of consent "Young men will be taken advantage of" blah blah blah and it was predjudice disguised as concern. If I want to marry several women, and they're all happy with that why shouldn't I be able to? Or maybe I want to be the husband of a woman who also has another husband. It doesn't only apply one way.

Likewise the argument 'marriage is about love between two people' is simply applying the current definition and enforcing the rules we've made up. It's not set in stone, who says it has to be two people? That's like people who say "marriage is between a man and a woman" as a justification for excluding same sex couples.

The same goes for inter-family marriage. OK, there's a higher risk of birth defects for children so lets' say for the sake of argument the couple involved aren't capable of having children - Is it now alright then? If your answer is still "no" then your argument was never about children it's about your own prejudice. Just going "It's wrong" "It's weird" "It's unnatural" is no kind of argument. Of course it is, but so what? That's the same thing people (used to) say about homosexuality.

Under age marriage is a different issue. Firstly age limits apply to all areas of life, it's hardly unique to marriage. Secondly 'the under age' aren't a minority group. Everyone was under age once and in a few years they won't be. So I really don't think this is comparable to the others.

[saea97]

As has been said by a previous poster, the only one of the examples provided that I'm against is underage marriage. I don't see any particular reason why two related adults who truly love each other should not marry (and birth defects in children are very, very far from guaranteed; see a recent thread purely about incest), and I don't see any particular reason why marriage has to just be between two people, other than that it's "traditional" - but "traditional" marriage is a phrase that has been coined by the bigot parade as the opponent to gay marriage; why should we care about tradition?

[Harry Smith]

Another 5 stars

Though for the 10 men with 1 wife, sometimes it's one man with tons of wives. Of course, it could be because the man is bored with one woman and goes marry who knows how many more and mess around with them...not really true love.


EDIT: I don't like plural marriage but all in all, the only one I'm against is underage marriage.

that was another typo, I meant 10 wifes and 1 men. but yeah I'm still not in favour of something which objectives women and opens them up to abuse

[Twilly F. Sniper]

The ironic thing is that this argument is used by people who oppose gay marriage.

Plural marriage completely ignores the western concept of a relationship, the idea that you can commit yourself to one person. That's why we don't have that, marriage is between two people who love each other.

Underage marriage is just terrible, look at countries like sudan where it's allowed to happen. You have 10 year old girls being sold of by their parents and they end up marrying a 50 year old man and be using as a sex slave. Underage children also lack the education or maturity to commit to another person, the same reason why you can't smoke, drive or drink until your 17/18.

Inner family marriage is not allowed for the same reason that incest is not allowed, because the child born can have serious genetic problems and for that reason the state cannot endorse something which would lead to widespread confusion, on a tax or cenus bill would you list your wife as your wife or your sister.

To me this just seems like a very poor way of you trying to ridicule gay marriage, it's the same tripe used by right wing politicians in america who claim that homosexuality will lead to incest and bestiality

Exactly. Some of these types of people really need to just shut up until they know what they're talking about. Case Closed.
But in reality, the only thing I am against as said by another is underage marriage, because a person that young can't really love another inn a term of marriage; In other words, it's utterly useless.

[thewhiteyeezus]

1 marriage is between two people 2 underage people would probably have no ways of living together in harmony because of adult problems they would face, plus if they were young enough one persons parents would keep them which is pretty weird of you asked me 3 inner family marriage is fucked up, as there kids would be suffering most likely of the extremely similar genes and plus that sounds pretty desperate, i mean think about it. 4 in probably 400 years youll be able to marry your dog, so really think for a second just think

[Jess]

3 inner family marriage is fucked up, as their kids would be suffering most likely of the extremely similar genes and plus that sounds pretty desperate

Not if they decide to not have kids...

[thewhiteyeezus]

Not if they decide to not have kids...

No but still is there a need for inner family marriage when you are already family so you probably see each other quite a few or more times, its also incest btw. Anyway you already love each other so why should u take it to the next level, shit.